Comments on Elizaphanian
With you all the way, Sam!
Me too, Sam.
Fantastic stuff Sam.
Mr Brewer, if you are reading these comments, then may I suggest you 'cease and desist' your attempts to silence free speech and fair discussion, something I believe our UK courts will take a dim view upon....
Good on you Sam!
Nice one Sam.
I thought the right to free speech was in the American Constitution.
Or does that not apply to comments about American lawyers?
Well done, Sam! Keep up the good work.
Note that he dares to require you to tell a lie, by saying that none of your statements about him have any factual basis. Is that a Christian thing to do?
It strikes me that, once reposts of Dave Walkers material started appearing in dozens of places, SSG stopped going after people with C&D's. If it worked with that, it can work with this.
Thanks for this Sam. Very helpful. Following your example.
Tim
Sam, do let us know if you need contributions to a legal fund. In the U.S., they call these SLAPP suits. Here's what Wikipedia has to say about them:
A Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation ("SLAPP") is a lawsuit or a threat of lawsuit that is intended to intimidate and silence critics by burdening them with the cost of a legal defense until they abandon their criticism or opposition. Winning the lawsuit is not necessarily the intent of the person filing the SLAPP. The plaintiff's goals are accomplished if the defendant succumbs to fear, intimidation, mounting legal costs or simple exhaustion and abandons the criticism. A SLAPP may also intimidate others from participating in the debate.
Don't let him win. Telling the truth is not libel.
And Mr. Brewer---Christians are not supposed to sue other Christians. Or did they cut that out of the Bible you are reading?
Doxy
Sam,
you are fantastic and I admire you for your strong stance.
I agree wholeheartedly with your position that all you have stated is fair comment and I particularly agree that posting the C&D as issued is definitely in the public interest given you were requested to furnish -secretly via BCC! and not even openly - the private and personal email addresses of people you may have corresponded with - this is surely something the public should know about and would have an interest in knowing for their own personal protection and privacy in case they should ever recieve an aforementioned email such as was proposed.
This is especially concerning due to the assertion he has made to other people who may have contacted him by email etc. in that he does not consent to them 'giving it out' as it is his 'private email address' - even though the email address used is listed by himself and his law firm as his contactable work email address, and also listed on yellowpages etc as his work email address.
Again well done and thank you for letting us know.
Oooh... this is making me sooo angry!! Filling up... Grrrr...
Well done Sam, free speech and fair dealings are worth standing up for. Good on you.
Perhaps you might link to the background for those of us who have not been following the story?
Go get 'em, Father!
Good for you, Father! (Or Mr. Norton, or Sam, whichever you prefer.) I award you a virtual "Desistance is useless" Internet badge of honor. If he sues you over here, you can get the Electronic Frontier Foundation (eff.org) after him. In fact, you may want to get them after him anyway. They love working on free-speech issues, and they do have an international division.
Well done, Sam.
Well done indeed, Fr. Sam.
Well that's an interesting denial from Mr Brewer of any responsibility for Dave's situation.
I see he's having a go at you for not talking to him... in my C&D he says, " I do not consent to you contacting me about your alleged enquiries." so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to respond to that... hmmm...
Does anyone know what an 'alleged enquiry' is by the way? I know what allegations are; I know what enquiries are; can't quite get my head around the concept of 'alleged enquiries'...
Sorry, re-reading yours, I'm also kinda puzzled about how you were expected to reply to a message whose sender said, "I also demand that you not post this email, paraphrase it or refer to it in any way."
This is all getting very complicated: does Mr Brewer want us to correspond with him or not?
It's all bluff. Don't worry about the legal threats Sam.
well done sam. much respect.
Very well done! Keep up the good fight!
MARK BREWER: You are not beyond ecclesiastical discipline for your actions. Your Bishop Basil of Wichita will find out, and you will be disciplined! Repent of your own will before the Church makes you.
Sam,
Prayers for you at this difficult time. Plus thanks for your fight for justice.
Sam - BRAVO.
Doxy is right. Don't let this man intimidate you. May God stand with you.
Sam -
I am an American, and, more to the point, a Texan. If you need me in any way, I am here.
I shopped at the SPCK last time I had more than a layover in Britain, and if this fellow's trying to make it anything like any of the "Christian" bookstores here in the States, then...
He has no character to defame.
Howard Preston Burkett
Parishioner
St David's Episcopal Church
Austin, TX
Come an' get me, J. Mark Brewer!
Good job Sam. Keep it up.
Perhaps Mr Brewer has forgotten, in his flight to absolute privacy, that he is a trustee of a UK Charity - which carries its own responsibilities -
and in that capacity he made and published a video.
Good on you, Sam.
Mr Brewer, please be clearer about the problems - are you saying that you have acted within the legal bounds expected of you as a Director of a UK business and a Trustee of a UK Charity? Are you saying that staff are not taking you or your businesses to employment tribunals? What that has been posted is inaccurate?
BB - I'll put something fuller on my front page in a second, but the best single link is probably this one: http://www.mattwardman.com/blog/...ase-start-here/
This is certainly a great deal more eloquent than what I got...
: - (
"CONFIDENTIAL:
NOT TO BE REDISTRIBUTED TO ANY PERSON
OR PUBLICLY POSTED"
Now, this is a bit telling, aint it? Gives the thing away.
Good for you, Sam!
What, so Mark Brewer wants to extradite you to Texas?! Can't see it happening...
Sam, I've posted an article in support with links at
http://philipstreehouse.blogspot...sam-
norton.html
My wife is a former solicitor and lecturer in law and can see no problem with publishing material that is factually accurate and fair comment.
I've also posted details regarding SSG and Mark Brewer which are made public on the SSG website as well as contact details since he actually solicits contact!
Well done Sam, they have met there match. How dare Mark Brewer say, you should of talked to him first, if he had talked to his workers in the first place, no one would have had to blog in the first place to find out what was going on.
If he's got the money to take you to court, it means he's got the money to pay our wages.
Pauline
sam--
his language sounds like one of those nigerian 414 letters...
Mr Brewer is a lawyer and as such has entered himself into the public domain. He has also stood (unsuccesfully) for the Republican nominiation for the 7th Congressional District of Texas back in 2000. He is also head of the SSG/ENC/alphabet-soup of organsations which has taken over SPCK books-shops. In light of all this, I don't think he can plead "privacy" just because someone had said something about him that he doesn't like!
Gosh! He does seem to have lost it.
If Mr Brewer really wrote this:
"Neither English nor American law permits you to engage in what you term "fair comment" with respect to a private company, nor with respect to a private individual - namely, me. Obviously the law does not allow one to cloak his conduct with such sophistry and then go about defaming someone."
then he's not much of a lawyer I suspect. US law allows precicesly that. its in their constitution
Here is how any potential case would go:
Day 1: Judge wonders what Wittenstein has to do with legal arguments.
Day 3: Judge wonders what the 'grammar of legal argument' is.
Day 5: Sam promises to answer a question tomorrow…….. after he elaborates on what he does not believe.
Day 7: Judge gets excited as Sam comes close to answering a question.
Day 15: Judge gives up and dismisses case.
Clearly, There is something wrong with Mr J. Mark Brewer, but if he is reading this, and wants to come after my Parish Priest, Revd Sam Norton he will have to come past me first.
And J. Mark, 'Doxy' mentioned 'SLAPP' earlier on.
I have a lovely secular Texan not too far from you who loves free speech and might perhaps consider coming to see you with a slap. Meanwhile please send me any 'lawsuits' c/o SS Peter & Paul Church, West Mersea UK
Stephen Rice
And while we're at it, here's a picture of J. Mark Brewer, freely available
http://www.micaucus.com/photos/u...3/07/
brewer.jpg
cache.boston.com/.../01/1196557912_0043/539w.jpg
Let's have a caption competition here
Can I be in the dock too?
Sam,
I've commented at length over at my place. Keep smiling.
Keep up the good work, Sam! I shall post a supportive link over on my blog, too.
I am sure you have taken legal advice already, but as a non lawyer I posted my take on the ability of Mr B to subpoena sensitive personal data from you here: http://spckssg.wordpress.com/200...ge-immediately/
I think he might find it rather hard.
Please keep going! I'm not a christian, but even i can see that the way St Stephens (and indeed many christians in the US) behave is the opposite of love thy neighbour. You have a right to free speech, and the SPCK bookshops and Dave Walker should never have had to put up with this in the first place! Mark Brewer- sue me if you like. I haven't said anything that isn't true, and you might find that British people aren't intimidated quite so easily by your posturing.
I assume that he has tried your ISP and getting them to shut you down. I assume that they realise there is nothing wrong with what you have published. I assume that he has therefore decided to try frightening you. Hope it doesn't work. Keep up the good fight!!
Let him seek redress with the courts in the U.S. First: You live in the U.K. and any decision reached here is not enforceable there. Second, he's wrong on the U.S. law. He has to demonstrate that he has, in fact, suffered specific damages here in the U.S. due to your posts.
Sam,
Don't lose sleep, or get downhearted; fear not. You have much support, and it is growing.
Thanks for your support for Dave, and for the SPCK staff and bookshops.
The demise of the SPCK bookshops and their ministry across the country is huge loss.
Sam,
Don't lose sleep, or get downhearted; fear not. You have much support, and it is growing.
Thanks for your support for Dave, and for the SPCK staff and bookshops.
The demise of the SPCK bookshops and their ministry across the country is huge loss.
Sam, please forgive me for this, but it's beginning to feel like 'Friends Reunited' here: hi Alastair — great to see you here; welcome aboard!!
Sam, J. Mark Brewer"s CV is posted online: http://www.bplaw.com/index.cfm/M...uItemID/
119.htm Please note that Mr. Brewer takes all major credit cards for his legal services: http://www.lawyers.com/Texas/Hou...-1666871-
a.html When a person has their CV posted on the Internet along with contact information, photos of themselves, and a list of acceptable payment methods, they really can't describe themselves as "a private person." I feel very sad about the destruction of the SPCK stores. Sam, you cannot be targeted for civil damages in the USA if you post truthful information and commentary. Nothing I read on your website is defamatory or untrue. J. Mark Brewer and the info about the SPCK bankruptcy is being covered by many bloggers online and news media. In the USA bankruptcy proceedings are a matter of public record. Mr. Brewer would have to sue you and maybe 1,000+ people who have blogged or commented on this situation. Please keep doing what you are doing. Don't let anyone intimidate you or try to silence you. By the way, there is an enchanting photo of Mr. J. Mark Brewer with none other than President George W. Bush posted here: http://web.archive.org/web/20021....com/
intro.html
This lovely photo (the two chaps are all smiles, mugging and holding hands for the camera) is from a very public political activism website Mr. Brewer runs. J. Mark Brewer is also pictured with global warming denier Jim Inhofe and anti-gay campaigner Alan Keyes. What interesting friends!
Here is Brewer with a suspected war criminal:
http://web.archive.org/web/20021...brewer&
bush.jpg
The cynic in me says that you will find people (to use the Yes Minister phrase) give you every possible assistance - short of actual help.
The US Constitution allows much more free discussion than English law. However his threat to act in Texas is the real pain isn't it.
There is an article on Orthodoxwiki about the Brewers. The relationship with the UK Orthodox seems somewhat rocky. They appear well-intentioned but unable to interact effectively with those whom they would like to assist.
http://orthodoxwiki.org/
St_Steph...haritable_Trust
"In November 2007 Fr Gregory Hallam, of St Aiden's Orthodox Church, described the distance between SSG and UK Orthodoxy as comparable 'to the span of the observable Universe' [3] "
Sam,
Interesting statement on the homepage of Brewer's law firm---
"Like other business people, lawyers exist in a competitive world. They must be willing to withstand the scrutiny of those whom they serve and those whom they seek to serve."
Just to repeat that--
"They must be willing to withstand the scrutiny of those whom they serve and those whom they seek to serve."
http://www.bplaw.com/
More comment fron Fr Gregory Hallam, an Orthodox priest in Manchester:
"Brewer ...
"Let's face it, everyone is tiptoeing around this guy because he is a lawyer with substantial resources..."
Read more of what he has to say at the Ship of Fools site:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/c...=2;t=010601;
p=4
Here is Fr Gregory's Homepage
http://www.orthodox.clara.net/
Dave Walker's posts which apparently were removed fronm his Blog after a Cease and Desist Notice from Mark Brewer are available in Google's cache. Click on the "Cached" link beneath each entry.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?h...hurch.com&
meta=
I cant see how he can get anything done in his claim of legal action. He would need to go through a UK lawyer to set anything in motion and it seems. It is sad that Dave felt he had to remove the posts when I think he had no reason too and was under no real threat from the guy. Those crazy Americans eh?
Unicorn Tree Books have posted an interesting response to the way in which they appear to have been included in a C&D notice sent to someone else:
http://unicorntreebooks.blogspot...mr-
brewers.html
They draw attention to this site, which may be a useful resource.
http://www.chillingeffects.org/
From above: "Let's face it, everyone is tiptoeing around this guy because he is a lawyer with substantial resources..."
Tiptoeing time is over, people. I want those resources redistributed to the ex-SPCK booksellers.
Doxy
>Don't let him win. Telling the truth is not libel.
Actually in the UK it can be. I think (and I'm not expert myself ) that the issue is whether you have damaged someone's reputation rather than if it is true or not.
That is one reason why a lot of us are out for reform.
Matt
Sorry - my last comment was wrong. I thought truth was not an absolute defence. Apparently it is.
See:
http://www.carter-ruck.com/FAQs/...er%
20Cases.html
I said I wasn't an expert.
Matt W
thanks for this...I personally think you are a very good Christian for fighting injustice! xxx
I'm not an expert either, but I understand that truth is a defence to any civil libel claim, in the US or UK (Criminal Libel is another matter, but it's an irrelevance these days, and not going to apply here).
In the US I understand that our putative litigant will also have to prove malice - which will be difficult. That's why you get libel jurisdiction shopping, with US figures choosing to sue in UK courts - because it's easier here!
Although the threat of a US lawsuits is almost certainly a bluff, the COST of getting it dismissed is a worry. Perhaps if he's acting in bad faith or attempting abuse of process in his own case someone might complain about misconduct to his local Bar?
If he sues in the UK, and you can demonstrate the truth of what you wrote, you should have little trouble getting costs awarded against him.
But then again, I'm not an expert, so check with a lawyer 
For more information on Cease and Desist letters (especially in the US) and their use to silence people - have a look at the chillingeffects.org site.
You can even enter your letter in their database!
"Saint Stephen the Great" - what an excellent title for my blog!
Ha! You've certainly got more claim to the title than the Brewers have. Did you see I made it into the pages of Private Eye? That's a real claim to fame.
I missed a lot posts while travelling and this was one of them. Just wanted to add my support and prayers too. Good work.
Commenting by HaloScan
