Comments on Elizaphanian
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Sounds like a really good day, Sam.
On the point about the Daily Office, I think this would assume that the daily lectionary being used its a good one and takes us through the Scriptures in a responsible way. I can't comment on the 'Common Worship' lectionaries, but I have to sy that the North American variants (in the American BCP and our Canadian BAS) are sadly deficient in this. They jump around far too much and specialise far too much in little snippets instead of immersing you in the big story. I would also argue that alternatives (like the One Year Bible) can do the job as well.
Truth of the matter us, there has never been anything like a mass conversion to our form of the Daily Office, but other people have also been immersed in and formed by scripture in other ways. I think Anglican authors (and I would include you in this, Sam) use the words 'essential' and 'irreplaceable' far too much. Things don't have to be done our way to be good and effective.
Tim |
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12.05.08 - 5:52 pm | #
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The part that I found most helpful was the thought that there are many moods in scripture: indicative, imperitive; interrogative; subjunctive; and desiring. Together with the thought that to be true to scripture we need to reflect all these moods at different times and that too much of what happens in and through church it stuck in the indicative and imperitive moods.
Jonathan Evens |
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12.05.08 - 10:23 pm | #
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I thought this was a fabulous morning. I, too, found the Hans Frei stuff a useful balance. I suspect that I need to preach rather more with subjunctive and desiring moods in foreground.
The challenge to be immersed in scripture and to take proper time over the weekly sermon was absolutely right....
A real blessing...
Paul |
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12.05.08 - 11:26 pm | #
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Tim - one of the things I'm presently finding essential is my One Year Bible reading each day (or so, sometimes I catch up) - I'm using the New Living Translation that you recommended and finding it very helpful.
I think I do use the word essential too often. But I would stick by it for liturgy.... (of course, nothing precludes grace etc)
Sam Norton |
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13.05.08 - 7:48 am | #
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Why hold anything in the other hand? Why fill yourself up just to feel empty?
If you realize that you have enough,
you are truly rich.
If you stay in the center
and embrace death with your whole heart,
you will endure forever.
Louis B. |
14.05.08 - 11:38 pm | #
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Personally I found the day a bit lightweight. Most of what David Ford said was unarguably true - we should be aware of what is in the papers, we should be reading commentaries - but it was at a level I would have thought more suitable for entry-level theology students, not clergy with, for the most part, years of training and experience behind them.
Personally, though, on that theme I'd have liked to see in the 'other hand' another Bible, in Greek and Hebrew.
It put me in mind of something I blogged a while ago on why theological colleges matter (linked below), which itself links to an article I did comparing my English and Australian experiences of theological training, here.
John Richardson |
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17.05.08 - 11:26 am | #
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Hi John, I wish I had seen you, it would have been good to have been able to chat in person. I read your article and it chimes with things that I feel very strongly about - as I said to the ordinand I'm presently tutoring yesterday, it seems to me that training is most clearly characterised by the absence of theological rigour rather than its presence. There are a lot of things I would expect I disagree with Richard Turnbull about, but the necessity for theological colleges to concentrate on preparing ordinands for CHURCH work is absolutely right.
This was something that worried me about the training course I recently attended at Pleshey, and there will be a post about that in the next few days.
I need to be careful though otherwise I'll go off on one of my rants - I'm convinced that most western Christianity, but Anglicanism more than most, is subject to a Babylonian captivity. Theology needs to be removed from the control of the academy and restored to the cloister.
Sam Norton |
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17.05.08 - 2:17 pm | #
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Hi Sam. I'm really looking forward to that post. If it wouldn't involve revealing too much, where or how is your ordinand training?
John Richardson |
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17.05.08 - 5:09 pm | #
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Hi John - I've just posted about the course. My curate has been training part-time via ERMC and I have been her academic tutor. Which means that I bear responsibility for some of the shortcomings!
Sam Norton |
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18.05.08 - 7:03 pm | #
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