"people who are only interested in the emotional aftermath of abortion to the extent that it affects their political agenda."
How, exactly, is this site different? I don't see any attention paid to people who have positive emotional reactions to their abortions.
Do you practice what you preach?
"The idea that by paying attention to the POSTITIVE aftermath of abortion, she (or the pro-LIFE movement) could learn more about a dimension of reality they have hitherto ignored, or find ways to help women, or understand why abortion HELPS some or many women..."
sara...the difference here is we acknowledge that there are women who don't regret or feel sad about their abortions...and we have the freedom to do so.
Those on INS...have to be careful not to talk about the pain of abortion because it will result in them having to defend the right to choose while looking at the truth abortion hurts women...all women..well that's not for me to say but it did hurt me and many others I know....
There is a big difference..it's called freedom...
i, for one, acknowledge women who find the self imposed child loss experience positive, and i do so without calling them ridiculous or identifying their feelings as a personal attack on me and what i stand for.
i do think that women refer to their lost children as "parasites" or as "crotch droppings" have detestible attitudes, and i'll be the first to admit it. that goes a degree beyond a positive reaction to a SICLE, wouldn't you say?
i will agree that pass, however, is ridiculous and a very unsmart move on the part of the "pro-lifer". abortion-related post traumatic stress disorder should be called abortion-related post-traumatic stress disorder. it's dumb to invent a term that needs no invention; it's fodder for those who care more about protecting abortion from women than protecting women from abortion.
I just visited the link, and there are only four responses - two that basically say "we can't afford to focus on emotions," one sarcastic anti-abortion comment, and one that is personal and doesn't respond to the "strategy" question. I think you might be a little too quick to draw big conclusions from this short thread.
I don't deny that there are people on the pro-choice side who are "hard-liners" and focus only on the legality of abortion, and not the emotional effects. There are similar people on the anti-abortion side. In fact, that is true of most social issues - some people focus on the emotional effects, others focus on questions of politics and legality. It's unfortunate, but not unique to the pro-choice movement.
Sara...most of the women and men on INS site tend to be the "pro-abortion" type just because there are only 4 posts at this time. All one has to do is read all the other posts and the guest book to see where they hang their hats at...
They have no compassion for those who are hurting from abortion (all you have to do is read the post about the woman who is still pro-choice but hurting from it. She wrote a poem about her experience and they ripped her apart)...because if they did they would have to admit abortion hurts women...there goes their foothold...
Hi Sara--I keep permanent links on this blog to a number of websites (including I'm Not Sorry) that provide a postive picture of abortion and its emotional impact on women.
I also include links to such sites on a fairly regular basis in the daily content of this blog.
My expectation and hope is that people who visit this blog will fairly readily be able to link to and read about all different kinds of accounts of life after abortion.
As far as I am aware, women who were helped by abortion are not in need of support and recovery programs. So, I'm not sure where you are coming from in the suggestion that there is an unmet need there that should be attended to.
I think there is a danger in this for all of us...to put our own agendas before the individual needs and feelings of each woman.
I know I pray always to see each person and their healing individually and not as a way to promote support for anything I do or want to do.
It is something I constantly watch and know I can be capable of if I do not stay focused on Him.
As far as those who find abortion a positive experience, that is fine...I just have to wonder if it is so positive why they feel the need to keep defending it or to try to discredit the feelings of those of us who found it otherwise.
Personally, seeing my aborted son dumped into a jar coul dnever be a positive for me and for that I am grateful.
Somebody, please, what exactly is the "positive" aftermath of abortion.
Part of the reason the abortion debate is so maddening and fascinating to me is the search for the "positive outcome. "
I keep searching for the positive outcome and never find it.
having gone back and read the most recent posts, I had to laugh. They certainly have no real clue of what SNM is all about...they believe women are being exploited by SNM. If that is the case so then are all the women who share their story on INS..they believe SNM believes all women suffer from the abortions they had..this is not how SNM works and SNM has never claimed abortion hurts all women...SNM only claim is abortion hurts women and if you are one who is hurting..if you have received some healing and able and willing to talk about it...then come and share your story while standing with the safety of others who have also.
Simply put they just don't get it because if they did they would have to say...abortion hurts women...and for them that is letting the cat out of the bag...
The women on INS have a lot to lose and they just can't go there...
There is NO way to bolster the credibility of the abortion proponents' cause since abortion is ALL minuses, NO plusses.
The commenters here who maintain that there is no positive outcome for any women just reinforce my point -- there are idealogues on both sides. When you deny that any women have had a positive experience, you clearly haven't listened to women with an open mind. If you go into a discussion with that absolutist view, you will only hear what you want to hear.
It's just like the INS folks - unable to consider complexities that challenge your agenda.
When you deny that any women have had a positive experience, you clearly haven't listened to women with an open mind.
As much as I dislike it, I have to admit that Sara has a point here. There are women who experience abortion as a "good thing" with no (or few) negative consequences. If we are being truthful, we must admit that. We appear untruthful when we do not admit the truth.
However, it's important to note that positive effects do not actually make an action "good". There are positive effects to many tragedies. The 9/11 attacks created a (short-lived) sense of unity in an America that was deeply fractured. That was a positive effect, but it doesn't change the horrible evil of the 9/11 attacks. In a similar way, whatever positive effects might come from abortion do not outweigh the monstrous evil of killing an innocent child.
It's just like the INS folks - unable to consider complexities that challenge your agenda.
I think your condescension is misplaced. Most post-abortive women, especially the commenters on this blog, are well aware of the "complexities" that surround abortion. However, the central issue of abortion is not "complex" at all. Killing children in the womb is wrong, period.
I think Holly's point may have been (and correct me if I am wrong) that abortion itself has no positives, but it might as Naaman and Sara pointed out have "positive effects". Like Naaman said, killing children in the womb is wrong. There are no two ways about it.
Naaman/Sara:
In fact, the practice of abortion is a serious mental illness. The psychic demage in its practitioners might be compared to serial killers' who also lack remorse when they kill. These are dangerous people. Unfortunately, legalized abortion legitimizes the destructive behavior typical of the mentally deranged, sociopaths, and psychopaths.
We also have to remember many women who have had abortions who now regret that choice at one time felt as those on INS and other pro choice blogs. Many women now speaking out against abortion were hardcord fighters for choice standing side by side with the likes of those on INS.
Many women who now regret their abortions were feeling pretty good about the decision and did for years...the story of Georgette Forney (Co-founder of Silent No More) comes to mind..she had an abortion at 16...a few years later listened to another woman talk about her remorse and regret over her abortion...Georgette's own word were..."get over it, I had one it was no big deal"
For all of us who have experience abortion and regret it we understand something most do not and that being...saying "I'm not sorry" is not always a permenent statement.
I think there is a difference between feeling bad that you were put in the situation where you felt like you had to do what you did and the doing of what you felt must be done. For example: I feel bad that I was in an abusive relationship and felt that any child I had with that person would be subject to his abuse. I do not regret deciding to not subjecting a child to that life.
I don't regret the abortion, I regret what I feel was the necessity of it. I regret the pregnancy, and wish none of it had happened at all. I feel sad and a since of loss, but I still feel that is better then the abuse that the child most likely would have been subject to if his father had any contact at all with the child.
It is a fine line. I think many women feel this way. The regret is for the situation and that no other way seemed to offer safety for themselves or the child. Sadness for a path not taken.
We also have to remember many women who have had abortions who now regret that choice at one time felt as those on INS and other pro choice blogs. Many women now speaking out against abortion were hardcord fighters for choice standing side by side with the likes of those on INS.
... and a few of the anti-abortion men used to be clinic escorts and NOW members. Thanks for reminding us of this fact. 
Please remember that it can go the other way, too. As the abortion-rights movement loves to remind us, there are women who were raised pro-life, find themselves in an unplanned pregnancy, and then become advocates for "choice".
Still, because abortion is evil and does harm women in a multitude of ways, I think we're more likely to see the former example: the pro-choicer turned pro-life/anti-abortion. Truth is more powerful than lies, and the truth will catch up with everyone ... eventually.
Marvelous commentary - I've missed you all.
I have two different points of view to contribute, if I may: My mother remained pro-choice after her abortion, which she obtained because she believed her other children would have suffered from her pregnant condition - she would have lost her job and our only source of income. She also didn't regret MY abortion (for which she took responsibility), because she believed being a teenage mother would have derailed my life.
But I did regret it, and as a result, I never achieved any of the things for which we sacrificed my child. My mother felt as Achro does - she was between a rock and a hard place, and abortion was necessary. I watched her think it over, once, and then conclude that she had done the best she could do for everyone involved, both times: "It was still the right thing to do."
But this belief did not ease her pain or mine. Her beliefs did not keep her from reaching for booze when she needed to numb that pain, and that led to the neglect and abuse of the living children she had tried to save. Her beliefs didn't do JACK.
I once believed that cutting my arms and legs made me feel better, and it was my body, my scars, my choice. Anyone could have told me it just wasn't right, regardless of how I felt about it.
And now I have reading to catch up on. Thanks for the chance to share.
Naaman...of course there are women who were brought up ProLife and then had abortion and became ProChoice...however I would be willing to bet some if not many of them "feel" they have to be ProChoice because they made that choice...given the fact that some of the women in SNM were in fact cut from this cloth and then realizing through the grace of God they no longer had to hang on to their ProChoice beliefs because they had come to know forgiveness from God, child(ren) and self...they then came back to being ProLife...I am willing to bet this happens more times then not...and with so much more information out there about healing it will become more common...
I'd rather get abused by my dad than killed by my mother.
I'd rather get abused by my dad than killed by my mother.
That's really the point, isn't it? Life is better than death, even a life with suffering.
Here's something that I don't understand ... if abuse or other suffering are sufficient cause to kill an unborn child, why stop at birth? Why not euthanize toddlers who are being abused to "spare them" from further abuse? Why not euthanize all handicapped people to end their suffering? After all, the argument is essentially the same.
Naaman...They are trying to do that, there are people out there trying to kill off babies up to two years old...I can't remember the man who is the most prevailent in this movement but I am sure someone here knows his name...also Terri Schiavo's case was all about this...
They are trying to do that, there are people out there trying to kill off babies up to two years old...
I should have guessed as much.... 
...also Terri Schiavo's case was all about this...
To you, perhaps it was. To me, the Schiavo case was about:
A) a person's right to refuse medical care, and
B) a husband's duty to speak for his incapacitated wife.
I don't want to re-open that ugly can of worms on this thread, so I'll leave it there. I just wanted to remind you that some of us disagreed with the pro-life involvement in the Schiavo case.
I was horrifically abused. I did seriously contemplate suicide as a young teen because of it. Today, 13 years later, all my physical and emotional scars have healed, been healed.
I am glad to be alive and yes, if I had to go through it all over again, I would say YES!
AFAC,
I second your comment and add an amen.
I too was abused and I am very happy to be alive...
I love seeing a blade of grass and comtemplating the wonder of God and all He has given me...I find when dealing with those who are suffering now at the hands of someone else I can be a help to them in such a way that they can trust me in knowing that I understand the path in which they walk...My ability to share with them my suffering gives them them the ability to see a future...a bright future...
Would I change it...yes, of course if I knew what my life was going to be like as a child...but I didn;t know and so all I know is my life. I Love My Life...I love it, I love it!!!
Comparing AA to INS is laughable. Both sites talk about the negative consequenses of abortion, INS just doesn't realize that's what they are doing. It's all "I had an abortion and I justify it by ponting to XYZ." But no one at INS talks about the "positive" side of abortion. No one's health was improved; No one gained knowledge that gave them to power to cure cancer; No one got rich or won the lottery; No one's personal relationships got better; No one felt better about themselves or was inspired to help the poor and feed the hungry.
Mary E., are you imply that all women that have children do?
"No one's health was improved; No one gained knowledge that gave them to power to cure cancer; No one got rich or won the lottery; No one's personal relationships got better; No one felt better about themselves or was inspired to help the poor and feed the hungry."
or am I just not getting what you are trying to say? (often I don't so that is why I'm asking for clarifcation)
Ultimately, it's all about avoidance, not about "sparing the child" from some future of abuse or neglect.
I knew damn well when I became pregnant that being an unwed mother in 1997 was not like being an unwed mother in 1745 or 1955 for that matter. Society and my family and friends would not have shunned me. Nobody would have placed me in the stocks or thrown rotten tomatoes at me in the street. Catholic social services would have bent over backwards to make sure I had medical care.
My brother and his wife have two adopted sons they love dearly. There is no shortage of couples who desperately want to adopt children and will make good parents.
I knew all this. Yet I chose to abort, because at the time I could not stand the thought of going through a physically onerous pregnancy and then giving up the child after birth. I was not as brave and tough as the birth mothers of my nephews.
The abortion was about avoiding and saving ME pain. I did not know at the time just how painful it would end up being in the long run. But please, let's not pretend that getting an abortion somehow benefits the aborted child, who is spared a life of woe.
a breath of fresh air from donna, ladies and gentlemen!
AHHHHHHHhhhhh!
(((donna)))
Thank you, ashli!
not all brith mother can give their children up for adoption. I hate to remind all of you but the brith father has rights and sometimes he can be a pretty darn dangerous man, even if he rapes you, even if he molest you, he can have rights to your child if that is his child to. Give up your child and you maybe signing that child to live with a monster.
achro- Yes, I am saying that women who have children do tend to be healthier, etc. Ok, they may not win the lottery but the point is all the magical properties of abortion pro-choice people keep telling us about just don't exist. There has never been a study showing any benefit to abortion but there are lots of studies showing the harm of abortion and the benefits of childbearing and rearing. The stories about women and (men) who turned their lives around or made changes for the better because a child came into their life are common. In even the worst circumstances a child can make the adults in his/her life see things differently. And even if the parents still fail to change their lives, that child can still go on to do great things despite the odds. Great good can come out of the worst circumstances.
The whole farce that giving birth and and killing are morally equal is probably more offensive than the act of abortion is. This is the real problem with INS.
A - I agree with Mary E. - women who give birth do far better in the long run. It kind of sort of has to do with the fact that God creates each individual for a purpose. When that purpose is thwarted through abortion because the child may come into an abusive relationsip, then God's purpose for that child's life cannot be fulfilled.
God gives us free will. That is a wonderful gift. He does not force us to give birth - nor does He force us to become pregnant. Yes, I know all about rape ... however IF God, in His infinite wisdom, did not want a child to be conceived in the act of rape, there would be no child. PERIOD, NADA, NON!!!
A child is a gift from God, just as you are A. Your gift for writing, your gift for making me think outside the box and realize that my cozy corner is not every one's cozy corner is something that I need. I need to have you as a part of the universe - alive and well. (okay, so not every one has good days all the time, but for the most part...)
You are so important to God that He made you. He also made the child you carried within your womb. You made the choice out of the fear that your child would be subject to abuse, to end that child's life. What would your child's gift to the world have been? No one will ever know...that is the heartbreak of abortion. Could your child have stopped his/her father from continuing to abuse - could that child have tapped into something in that hurting person?
Although, you have written, if I understand you correctly, that the choice you made was not really about the child, but about the situation, it is really only about the child and about the mother who, for whatever reason makes the choice to abort. The child is dead. The mother most often lives on...but with a different perspective on life.
Even though the government is not a good real overseer, children are not always given over to the father in abusive cases. I would rather take my chances on that than to abort a child because the father may or may not have custody.
Praying us all peace...
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