What more can be said about the EU's contempt for the rights of the people of Europe. They see us as a way get money, for them to get power and for us to be ground into the dust.
The EU is run by scum and supported by scum.
The EU parliament is a pan-European Institution. Therefore it would be undemocratic for it to ignore a pan-European Referendum. However, it can declare its approval of the Lisbon Treaty without having to wait for a individual nation signing it.
Furthermore, it is not the business of the Parliament to comment on the Ratification process in the individual member states.
If a Ireland would vote yes, on the treaty. Would you think that your MEPs a bound by this vote? And should accept the treaty? Certainly not.
RZ I don't understand your comment but I think it is a typical europhile fudge in trying to defend the unacceptable.
The EU, post Lisbon, represents a massive departure from the democratic standards that europeans expect. One day the political leaders of Europe will have to explain why they stripped Europe of its democratic inheritance in the face of a majority rejection of the Lisbon treaty..
The whole point of a democracy is that it bestows legitimacy to governments and secondly it is meant to include checks and balances to protect citizens from over zealous rulers.
This Europe has neither of the above.
Even the most pro-EU advocate should be worried.
Dear "Bonne chance les Rosbif.",
thank you for your answer. From the comment threads of EU related blogs I always get the impression that, be it for or against the EU, actually nobody cares. So thank you for sharing your opinion.
This post was dedicated not to the general effect of the Lisbon Treaty or to the question if there should be a Referendum, but only to some stupid amendment. This is what I addressed.
But you want to talk about the treaty itself and the need for a Referendum. That's great. Under the Lisbon Treaty decisions in th EU will be made by the democratically elected Parliament and the the democratically elected national governments in the council. So I guess we all agree that the EU is a democratic institution.
Lets turn to the ratification process. If the people of a nation are dissatisfied with the treaty they have the option to vote a National Government which shares these opinions and leave the Union. This is possible by a simple majority vote in any national parliament.
regards,
rz
RZ,
"So I guess we all agree that the EU is a democratic institution. "
I am sorry but don't agree with this.
The principle of 'ever closer union' brings with it a democratic gap.
Dissent on the EU has been squashed, time and time again. Referendums that have resulted in 'no' votes have either been ignored,or the voters asked to keep voting until they get it right. Or shot, as in the case of the Dutchman Pym Fortuyn.
Today Europe has no popular mandate. The French voted no to the EU constitution, as did the Dutch, yet they still get it thrust upon them in the guise of the Lisbon treaty.
The Brits have not had the chance to challenge the EU project since the early seventies.
If you set yourself up to" challenge the 'negative myths' regarding the EU then you could perhaps entertain the idea that the EU has been built by stealth, that the intention was always to hoodwink the public as the founders never expected the plebians to get it and therefore decided to build it without their suport.
The greatest "myth" is that Europe is in any way a democracy. Yet we insist on pretending that we have something to teach the world in this regard.
Why don't you admit the truth, you would at least gain some respect for that. The EU is the new Socialist Block dedicated to central control and that the 'power to decide their own future has been taken away from the people because you believe that that power is better off in the hands of a few, who know best, in Brussels.
Go on, admit it. Many of your like-minded pro-europeans have at least had the guts to admit this fact.
let's see what UKIP do when Ireland returns a 'Yes'
Dear "Bonne chance les Rosbif.",
I am very happy about the chance to debate the "democraticness" of the EU with you. Your long post deserves a thoughtful answer.
I do not want to post to much material on a blog which is not my own so I copied your comment and I will respond to it in full length on my own blog, when I find the time (this weekend).
I see that you, like myself, value the privacy of the internet so I do not want to infringe on that. If you object to me reposting parts (or everything) of your comments on my blog, with links to this comment thread, you can tell me this here. I will check before I post something.
Note that I am always civil, and polite.
best wishes
It's a disgrace and an outrage. I shall be voting NO and will be encouraging as many people as possible to do likewise.
So many of the people of Ireland fight for a United Ireland, and the people of Scotland want an independent Scotland.
However the the EU will bit by bit remove the individuality of each and every nation, until we are just regions with no rights.
90 seconds of debate is all that a single MEP is allowed on any subject, how can that be call democracy.
It seems that all the EU want to do is become a super state with Brussels being the only seat of government.
I can't see how that can be good for everyone. Would you trust a organisation that has not had it's accounts signed off for 13 years?
The whole EU gravy train is going to hit the buffers one day, I just hope my country gets off before it happens.
It's such a shame people are so blinkered they cannot see the truth when it's in front of them.
Commenting by HaloScan
