Nine number ones in one week? Goodness.
I mean, obviously they aren't all being targetted at the same readers...but still...
//Oo/\
Everyone should avoid the comic store for David’s Mighty Men and go directly to your local Christian Bookstore to purchase it.
When Jesus wins we all win.
In my town, I could get David's Mighty Men and paper to write to the publisher, because we have a Christian Bookstore and Office Supply.
Of course, it's central Pennsylvania, where, in certain towns, you can get pizza and used tires from the same storefront.
To be fair, XIII is really quite good. (But it's Eurofilth, so of course I think it's good)
Twelve books a month, and they're added more every month? For a new publisher? They're mad. It doesn't matter how good the books are - their publishing strategy is at right angles to reality, and they're going to get annihilated.
Maybe their plan is to keep on "delaying" these comics until some Hollywood lunatic pays them $200 million for movie rights at which point they'll all be canceled. That's how I'd do it.
I also want to know how cheap printing comics overseas gets when you promise a certain number of comics on a certain date. I'm thinking negative twenty-three cents an issue.
XIII might be good, but wasn't Alias going to sell a censored version in the States? Not to raise the "comic fans want boobies" thing again, but they felt it would sell better if they left in all the ultra-violence and excised any hint of a breast. 'Cuz, you know, breasteses make you EVIL or something.
It worked for All-Father D'Aronique and Wilson Fisk.
But not Wilson Pickett...
//Oo/\
Mike Miller has a habit of picking fights with half the industry it seems, so the fact that he's having troubles launching his, what, fourth publishing company while writing and drawing two books for image and adaption Robert Jordan for another publisher?
Mike, sit down for a minute.
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
There's about four or five "Tilting At Windmills" columns that suddenly spring to mind....
"We were too ambitious for our first month, but we're making up for that by being even MORE ambitious in later months! By adding comics to our roster, we'll make it easier to do them; eventually, we'll have an infinite number of titles and each one will take zero effort!"
Way way ahead of you, Sean.
Here, actually, let me post what I posted over on the Comics Retailer BBS -- the CBIA (I cribbed a little bit from Sim):
>>>I can ask Diamond if it's too late to split it up, I didn't realize it would be that big of a problem.
Oh, stupid Haloscan....
Robert is probably going to be rather cross with me, now, because I'm not being "productive", but....
HOW THE FUCK COULD YOU *NOT* REALIZE THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM?
Are you sniffing glue? Do you know anything whatsoever about comics, and publishing, and basic marketing 101? There are AGES (and PAGES) of examples of publishers who have tried this kind of idiotic penny-wise, pound-foolish ship-it-all-at-once tactics, and every time EVERY TIME, it cuts into thier own sales as you fight for dollars among your own products.
I could have theoretically accepted "oh, we're a few weeks late," I suppose -- shit happens -- but to compund that problem by throwing everything you publish out in a single week... what planet are you from? Where are customers going to get the money to buy these comics? From a magic hat? From the power of prayer? Pixies?
"Let's hope it's a small week"? Man, more like, let's hope I sell any of the comics I mercy-fucked myself into ordering.
Then, OH MY FUCKING GOD, then you seem to suggest that you'll work out the schedule by letting less than 4 weeks pass before the next issue ships. While seemingly forgetting that THIS NEVER *ACTUALLY* WORKS IN THE LONG RUN (HOW many times has Erik Larson accelerated the scehdule of SAVAGE DRAGON, just to fall back out of schedule again when the limits of human endurance catch up to him?), you're also suggesting to SOLVE YOUR PROBLEMS ON THE BACKS OF THE RETAILERS by not giving us the full window in which to sell the material at hand.
I want to be productive, really, god, I do, so here's the best I can do: Call Diamond now, and tell them, "Sorry, I haven't got the slightest idea what I'm doing, and I apologize for wasting everyone's time and energy, but pull all of my solicitations now, because this is not a viable, ongoing concern."
Seriously, save yourself the trouble, because I absolutely guarantee you that with this kind of start, you're going to be one of the thousands of wannabe publisher corpses that litters the history of the Direct Market.
You probably think I am being mean, or an ass or whatever -- but I am telling you that, Scout's Honor, you have so completely bobbled your launch, that odds are 999999:1 against you now to have any possible chance of seeing Year 3. Save yourself the money and the embaressment, and end the publishing thing now.
Good lord, my monitor is smoking.
Fuel for future Savage Critic/Tilting bits?
Ouch! The truth really does hurt, I guess.
Brian wins.
Today I have a huge erection for Brian Hibbs.
In a, thats awesome sort of way.
Hibbs vs. Miller, in the next Take That?
"Today I have a huge erection for Brian Hibbs.
In a, thats awesome sort of way."
You and I apparently have VERY different understandings of the word "awesome".
Reading Brian's comments makes me scared that there might be someone out there who heard this news and read that hilarious interview who actually might have to be convinced of Brian's point of view.
Brian, uh, doesn't you posting here what you posted on the CBIA forums go against the CBIA policy?
Just curious...
Chris: I can post my comments any damn where I wish; they're MINE, after all. CBIA policy is against cross-posting OTHER people's comments.
Spurge: Apparantly there's tons of PUBLSIHERS who need to be convinced, so...
-B
"There might be someone out there who heard this news and read that hilarious interview who actually might have to be convinced of Brian's point of view."
Well, there's Mike Miller...
Brian's absolutely right, of course. Sometimes a business idea is so clueless that the kindest thing you can do is tell someone to pull the plug before they waste any more money. And this certainly seems to be such a time.
Can someone tell me if these guys bought ad space in Previews? I'm not suggesting anything; I'm trying to get a grasp on if there's some money involved.
There was a ridiculous two-page spread in this month's Previews: "The Girls of ALIAS Month."
That had to cost something.
And does Mike S. Miller really have 12 years publishing experience or doest "this business" really mean comics?
"CBIA policy is against cross-posting OTHER people's comments."
Ah, I see and stand corrected. Thanks.
7 full-color pages in the May issue, Spurge. (Don't know why Shawn only counts 2 pages)
-B
Their PR guy tries to spin the whole situation, while Miller jumps in to explain there's no difference between outsourcing to Canada or Korea. Weird set of priorities there.
Holy macaroni.
Best mini-Tilting EVER. Brian, I think you just sold me a copy of the book.
What can I say? I'm a fan of blood sports. 
" "CBIA policy is against cross-posting OTHER people's comments."
Ah, I see and stand corrected. "
No, you don't Chris. Brian quoted my post as well, and that does violate CBIA policy. Thanks.
" 7 full-color pages in the May issue, Spurge. (Don't know why Shawn only counts 2 pages)"
Because the 'ridiculous' double page spread caught his attention. That's what ads are intended to do. Nice to see that it worked.
And my 13 years experience in comics has not been as a publisher, but in every other realm, from penciler, inker, writer, art director, editor, and now executive director of my own company.
Guy, please explain the difference between outsourcing to South Korea and Canada. I'd love to hear it.
-Mike
Canadian companies generally don't pay de-humanizing shit wages?
I'm guessing; I don't care about the issue, such as it is.
I think Brian should face 12 punishments this month for violating CBIA policy.
As punishment, I think Brian should be made the president of the CBIA.
I nominate that the day Alias ships nine #1s be deemed "The Day that Will Live in Infamy."
The Twelve Labors of Hibbules?
"Canadian companies generally don't pay de-humanizing shit wages?"
Well that's kind of an assumption, isn't it? I say it again, SOUTH KOREA, I think you have this confused with NORTH KOREA, the communist homeland of Kim 'I'm so ronry' Jong Il.
South Korea is a thriving capitolist democratic country. What people get paid there is comparable in cost of living to what people get paid in any other thriving capitolist democratic country.
I actually know fuck-all about Korean wages past some dim memory of jokes made about early Simpsons animation.
My apparent knee-jerk racism aside, my guess is that there's no difference between printing in either country except it takes longer for one group of books to come back from Korea. I don't have a globe in front of me or anything though and lack 12 year experience in all facets of publishing.
FWIW, the average GDP looks like 31,500 vs. 19,200.
South Koreans also work about 1000 hours a year more than Americans to earn their lower income.
They have to do something with all that thriving capitalistic energy.
Must have something to do with the fact that the cost of living here is ridiculously high, and there you can live off of much, much less. Glad you're so well informed on the global economy.
I hire people from around the world to work for me, and when I can pay them double what they would get working a full time job at a graphics firm in Mexico, they aren't bitching to me that they're getting paid less than some an artist in the USA making 5 times more, but still having a hard time making his mortgage.
It's about cost of living, folks. In Argentina you can stay in a posh hotel for 20-40 bucks a night. You live in San Diego, that same hotel will ring in at 300 a night. We live in a country built on INFLATION, so we think that a dollar has a certain value. Five bucks here will buy you a loaf of decent bread. Five bucks in South Korea will buy you dinner for you and your family.
Bottom line, it's not the money, it's the purchasing power. We don't use 'slave labor', and we don't exploit anyone. And nobody is complaining except you.
You know, instead of giving me and the rest of us "folks" lessons on the Dole Fruit Company version of world economics, you might be better off spending that time phoning some retailers and apologizing for your sorry-ass excuse of a product launch.
FYI, professor, those figures are adjusted to reflect relative purchasing power.
So please, take your patronizing bullshit and put that energy back into fucking up your comics company. Since it's comics, I'm sure your arrogance and incompetence will eventually be rewarded with a giant cash outlay from some Hollywood studio. As it took most of the people who presently hoover money away from the artists and the hardworking people of comics a couple of years before they dicked over enough people to reach four digits, you're way ahead of the curve.
Spurgeon and Miller - RAMPAGE THEM!
Miller loses! Again.
Sorry if I sounded patronizing, but I work with people on a global basis on a daily basis, so I know what the US dollar can do for people in less affluent parts of the world. You want to think that's patronizing, go right ahead. Nothing I can do about it.
I'm totally lost on the rest of your post, though. What does this mean? "As it took most of the people who presently hoover money away from the artists and the hardworking people of comics a couple of years before they dicked over enough people to reach four digits, you're way ahead of the curve."
?
Sorry. Double post for some reason.
I was curious about that statement as well, Mike.
Perhaps Spurgeon could explain if he's still in this little game?
Without getting into world economics or theories on wasting money, I'll put in my two cents as a fairly new magazine publisher.
I think the success of Alias will ultimately be determined by the quality of its books, but there's no denying that by missing a launch date across the board it puts the company in a vicarious position with retailers and fans. You only get one try to make that first impression, and the launch has been tainted by the absence of every promised book.
In the year I've been publishing ANTIGRAVITY (a music and culture mag in New Orleans), I've doubled my page count. There was no way in hell that I could produced more than 16 pages per month last June. So I started there and five months later expanded to 24. Four months after that I expanded to 32, and we're looking to expand again come Sept./Oct.
Had I been late (which I've never been), or started with more pages and had to downgrade page count, or been in color and had to switch to black and white (I knew b&w would be much more feasable in starting up), who knows what kind of hit my reputation would have taken? In a business that relies solely on advertising, my credibility would have been shot. It's much better to start off slow and consistently exceed your audience's expectations than to set them high and risk failure in meeting them.
Which brings me back to Alias. I think it can certainly be salvaged, but Mike, you're going to have to be prepared to eat shit for longer than you expected while your repuation is rebuilt. The only way that can be done is by putting out high-quality books regularly for a long time.
Good luck.
"Five bucks in South Korea will buy you dinner for you and your family."
Only if the family in question is on diet. Five bucks is only about 5,000 Korean Won under the current exchange rate. In Korea, a Big Mac with fries and a drink costs 3,900 KW.
Why didn't they just put them on a boat to some army barracks, then fire them off in a cannon?
"Yes, we launched AND shipped 12 comics in April."
"Only if the family in question is on diet. Five bucks is only about 5,000 Korean Won under the current exchange rate. In Korea, a Big Mac with fries and a drink costs 3,900 KW."
I think Mike expects them to live on Ramen noodles.
Image experimented with printing its books in South Korea for a brief time, but stopped the practice due to the shipping problems they had getting the books back in decent time. It's a shame, too, because the printing quality was so good. Nice paper, too.
And wasn't Frank Miller's 300 hardcover printed in South Korea? What about Dark Horse's hardcover art books? And THE COMPLETE PEANUTS? Aren't those on the slow boat from Asia, also?
I'd just like to point out that Miller is obviously jumping all over the whole South Korea argument thing in a blatant attempt to avoid having to discuss the excellent points made by Hibbs. I saw this when I worked a comic shop years ago, and apparently it still hasn't changed - numb-nut idiots like Miller think they're hot shit, start a new company, and solicit material that doesn't come out on time, thus fucking up the budget of a small store. As far as I'm concerned, you idiots should be treated the same way Rob Liefeld should be treated - no submissions accepted for solicitation until you can prove that the work is fucking done and ready to ship.
Woah, I missed a lot overnight!
Miller: My point about printing in Canada vs. South Korea was about your odd choice of jumping into the discussion to focus on THAT instead of, you know, blowing your ship dates, or pissing off retailers, or casually dismissing the fact that none of your books will be on the shelves tomorrow when a truckload of potential new readers who wouldn't have a clue about how bad you've blown things might've seen them.
As for the "difference between outsourcing to South Korea and Canada," I think others have done a damn good job of addressing that one. You'd have been better saying, "Hey, we're a new publisher and it's the cheapest option. What's good enough for Wal-Mart is good enough for us." We could have then at least respected your honesty.
In all seriousness, though, best of luck to you. Hate to see even more creators screwed over by yet another overambitious publisher.
Regarding Augie's point about printing in South Korea, if you have a ton of lead time (as you tend to with graphic novels and collections, but not so much with monthly books) it can be a good, cost effective way to go. If not, it will cause delays. I write two books (Megacity909 and Mu) for a company called Studio Ice, which is based in Seoul and uses mostly Korean talent, but they still print their books in Canada for just that reason.
"I think Mike expects them to live on Ramen noodles."
I can buy ramen noodles for 99 cents at Ralphs, so Mike may as well say that five bucks can feed a family of five in Los Angeles too.
Another publisher that prints all of its books in Korea is IDW, and they SURE do pass the cost savings on to the readers, right?
I can buy ramen noodles for 99 cents at Ralphs, so Mike may as well say that five bucks can feed a family of five in Los Angeles too.
Wait. You're paying a DOLLAR for Ramen? Brother, you should never pay more than two bits. Try to find a Safeway.
Another publisher that prints all of its books in Korea is IDW, and they SURE do pass the cost savings on to the readers, right?
This being why I do not buy IDW books. I'll pick up Black Sails when it comes out, 'cause it'd take chains and bats to keep me away from a Brubaker/Phillips book, but in general I refuse to endorse that kind of treatment of the consumer (me!).
"Image experimented with printing its books in South Korea for a brief time, but stopped the practice due to the shipping problems they had getting the books back in decent time. It's a shame, too, because the printing quality was so good. Nice paper, too."
Actually Image still has some of it's TPB's printed in Korea with Lamp Post publishing. Also, the reason they no longer use Lamp Post exclusively is because Quebecor undercut it's own profit margin on the lower print run books so that they could sign Image to an exclusive printing deal. I guess they make up for it with the higher selling books. Sure, the longer shipping time probably had something to do with it, but you have to admit that the print quality from Lamp Post is the BEST in the industry.
Less expensive, and better quality printing... we sacrifice time. Can't have it all!
Dark Horse also prints I believe ALL of it's TPB's and GN's in Asia, either Korea or China, I don't recall which.
As to discussing missing the shipping dates... what hasn't been discussed already? We missed our shipping dates. I explained why. I explained what we're doing to correct the problem. What more is there to discuss?
BTW, Scott, 12 books from an upstart company won't make or break any comic shop. And books being a week and a half late isn't going to make or break Alias.
How many Image books come out on time? And I don't see them going anywhere any time soon...
"BTW, Scott, 12 books from an upstart company won't make or break any comic shop."
Late books are provably harmful to DM stores. The relative scale of any infractions don't make any difference. If you bop me over my head and take my wallet, it don't matter much if I have $2 or $2000 in the wallet.
"How many Image books come out on time? And I don't see them going anywhere any time soon..."
Comparing yourself to Image shows great huge stones. I salute you for that!
However, it is an inane comparison. Image is an established, entrenched brand started by the (at the time)hottest artists the business has ever seen. More importantly, Image books are sold at max discount, and have guaranteed stock as DCD is "just" a brokerage company for them.
-B
"Wait. You're paying a DOLLAR for Ramen? Brother, you should never pay more than two bits. Try to find a Safeway."
What I meant was five pack bundles priced at 99 cents, so it's about the same as what you pay. I usually need two or three packs to really fill me up anyway.
I haven't seen any Safeway stores in SoCal. They own the Vons supermarket chain, but I only have Ralphs discount card.
What does 'Guaranteed stock' mean?
*sigh*
It means, Mike, that as a brokered publisher, Diamond has no control over what stock from Image that they do or do not carry. If there are 1000 extra copies of [title x] then Diamond HAS to distribute them.
In a traditional buy/sell distribution relationship, however, Diamond only brings in what THEY want. If, in the end, Diamond decides that they have no interest in actively stocking reorders on 11 of your 12 titles, then they will not actively stock reorders on those books, dramatically costing you volume and sales.
There are tens of thousands of comics, from publishers who have been in business for 20 years or more, that are EFFECTIVELY "unavailable" because Diamond won't reorder the books themselves, depending solely on back orders to do so.
-B
Hm, interesting discussion.
I don't see printing in Korea a big deal. It's cheaper and in the end who cares how much they earn. Seriously. I think there's enough problems in US as it to worry about other countries.
Speaking of printing in Korea, a lot of comics publishers use overseas printers for collections. I think Burlyman is printed in India (or somewhere there). Fantagraphics uses Korea, China, Singapore - whatever is cheaper at the moment. Canada is becoming expensive because of the exchange rate. And if you think slave labour is only limited to Asia, think again. There's a lot of it happening right next door: in US, Canada - do some reading on this and you'll see what kind of conditions and what kind of wages for example textile workers get. Regarding the printers in Asia they are fully automatic and modern companies so there's not a whole lot of people involved. Since most colour books are printed in those places (from all US BOOK publishers as well) they get lots of work and a decent money too. Those companies and their employees are probably doing way better than their compatriots.
And not a single comment about US/Canadian companies losing printing jobs to Asian printers. Sad. Sad. Those printers, like Asian companies, employ people too...
But back to the subject. The launching of 12 titles is insane. I can't remember when was the last time I heard an unknown comics company launching so many new titles. Doomed to fail. A lot better way is to get 1-2 best books out and then slowly build on the success (if any) of those titles. I know it would take maybe 5 years to get to some point, but unless you have a million dollars to spend on comics (and remember that Alessi HAD million dollars) it's the only way to go.
Speaking of Alias, I was disappointed that their most interesting title to me, is being censored: XIII.
What does everyone think of these new companies like Speakeasy, Dynamite Entertainment or Alias? Do any of those have a chance of surviving more than a year?
Well, having been involved as a writer with another publisher, Kandora, who started out this year and also has floundered a good bit out of the gate...it is rough out there.
Kandora had a pretty solid plan I thought, though we were all a little shaky on the price point for a new book and new company, and its hit some walls to say the least.
Dynamite I know nothing about, but they seem to be focusing on licensed properties and they certainly have experience in making the most of that, so, we will see.
SpeakEasy, my bet is on them these days. Their head honcho, Adam Fortier is very versed in the business of comics and has not been blind-sided, nor will be blind-sided by the realities of the market, so, I see them sticking around. (I also, as a creator, now have good reason to want them to...)
As for Alias, well, all I will say on this is that I am not finding how any of this is unfolding to be surprising.
C. Edward Sellner
The Image comparison is hilarious, as Image's late books closed a lot of stores in the early 1990s because they thought their books would sell no matter when they came out. Sound familiar? This despite conventional direct market wisdom saying there would be problems. The only difference is scale. Maybe that should be the Alias motto: "Fucked up like early Image, 1/50th the sales."
Almost no one gives a shit where anyone prints as long as it's not total slave labor; to pretend there are generally no differences in purchasing power is so divorced from reality as to be insulting, though. The real point is if you're incompetent and can't put time in your schedule to ensure timely shipping from overseas, you're bascally saving money by sticking it to the retailers. Again.
The sad thing is there really is no noticeable accountability in the direct market, so the system gets weaker and weaker and no one ever gets punished for their role in making it so. Many people are rewarded for it. Viva la comix!
I don't usually post around various boards, but I feel a certain responsibility to do so in this case, because I'm probably the one who started this whole kaffluffle. It was my CBIA post that launched the retailer discussion, probably led to the Newsarama interview, and so on. I'll paraphrase some of what I said on the CBIA here.
~I've no problem with Alias' "lateness".
~I've no problem with Alias shipping nine books in one week.
~I've no problem with Alias. ALIAS has a problem with ME, and with like-minded retailers.
I don't know Mr.Miller except through what seems to be a bewildering number of projects over the past couple of years. Maybe it's not even the same guy. There seem to be an endless supply of Millers grinding out comics these days, some chaff, some wheat.
I pointed out in my CBIA post last week that I was doing my Previews order for the April catalog, and I had yet to see a single Alias title. I had already ordered 21 assorted Alias titles/issues (in multiple copies) the two previous catalogs, and was now expected to make a decision on 15 others, never having seen the actual product.
I wouldn't do that. I would order-to-reserves, and hold judgement on wall stock until I saw the product. (This costs me money- Diamond will charge me 6% more for order increases and reorders than they will for orders placed at solicitation.) Nonetheless, while it's neccessary to buy "a pig in a poke" for every new title, I, and many other retailers, have a limit as to how many times we're willing to do this before we say "no more".
As I recall I finished by saying that we don't need another Image. I was referring to my tendency to look at the number of outstanding issues of a title, and cut back on ordering until there's a REASONABLE number of issues in the pipeline.
For example, there are currently 4 issues of "Battle Hymn" outstanding on order. There's also 3 Expatiate, 3 Imaginaries, 3 Night Club, 3 Noble Causes, 5 Sam & Twitch, 4 Savage Dragon, 3 Walking Dead, 3 Witchblade, and numerous one-shots and short series that may or may not eventually ship. With shifting consumer interest, it would be stupid for me to commit to supporting these titles.
In the interests of my customers' entertainment, in good faith I can't reccommend ANY of these titles, except along the lines of "it sounds great, but you may be waiting a long time before you see it". Not the greatest sales pitch in the world.
Image's sales reflect the uncertainty of their performance. Image is often the #5 publisher on my monthly order, sometimes as low as #6. This is a company that once displaced DC as #2 in the industry.
Their downfall, at least in part, can be ascribed directly to lateness. Liefeld was no loss- his books never shipped anyways. Wildstorm WAS a blow, but the overall impression of Image (at least Deathmate) has always been "Great talent, but they'll never put it on paper. Give me something I can enjoy now, and next
(I guess this will finish off the truncated post)
Their downfall, at least in part, can be ascribed directly to lateness. Liefeld was no loss- his books never shipped anyways. Wildstorm WAS a blow, but the overall impression of Image (at least since Deathmate) has always been "Great talent, but they'll never put it on paper. Give me something I can enjoy now, and next month, and every month." Give us books that ship, not PROMISES of books...
Therein lay my "we don't need another Image" caution to Mr.Miller. We don't need another situation where retailers don't order because there's simply too much stuff in the pipeline, and not enough coming through. We won't SUPPORT that kind of behaviour any more, neither retailer nor consumer.
By the way, Alias titles are NOT late as defined by the Diamond contract imposed upon us. "April shipping" books are not late until June 1st. Publishers are allowed at least 30 days lateness before books are considered TRULY late. Certainly two weeks is nothing. To the consumer, lateness on the first issues is virtually meaningless. If the first books ship "two weeks late" and all subsequent issues ship on a regular basis, what difference does it ultimately make. Nobody is camping at the doorstep in eager anticipation of something they've never seen. Once they've learned to enjoy it, it's a different story.
The bad thing is that IF Alias had shipped in April, we retailers would have had the opportunity to see the product, perhaps even to see some sales data and consumer reaction before placing our "June shipping" orders. As it turned out, we didn't see the product, we're back to buying a pig-in-a-poke, and we just won't do that. We've been burned too many times.
Better to establish "the rules" before Alias (and all the other new publishers) establish patterns that will work against their success.
Pull the plug, Alias? No. Definitely not.
Miller's shown innovative approaches, truly fresh ideas (at least in marketing). I wish him well with this venture. Alias appears to be positioning itself as "Image done right". I started the discussion to serve him warning to avoid the most basic wrong of Image: Presuming that lateness has no repercussions.
-Paul Stock
Astro Books/Librairie Astro
Montreal
For Brian Hibbs to be such an important figure in the Direct Market community, he sure comes across as an illiterate petty man.
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