Who likes pie?
I'm thinking lemon meringue, myself.
We want him on that wall. We need him on that wall.
For someone who is so bored with me, Graeme, you just can't stop watching me, talking about me, and trying to inflame your hordes of stimulation-starved readers to burn me in effigy.
You know what I'm bored with? Days of Our Lives. Haven't watched it in years, have no idea what is happening on the show, or really even if they still make it. That's boredom. You, on the other hand, seem positively riveted.
As stalkers go, Graeme, you're not the first, and you're not even the best. Hell, you haven't even showed up at my house or hacked into my website. As aggravations go, you're somewhere between bedbug and canker sore.
I don't wonder anything at all about you, because it's all out there
for any keen observer to see. Comics has its Miss Haversham, and her
name is Fanboy Rampage. Shine on.
Reminds me of Arnie Pye, the insane helicopter reporter from the Simpsons. "I am the news, Graeme!"
"Who likes pie?
I'm thinking lemon meringue, myself."
I'm a Dutch Apple man, m'self...
Fuck that shit! Have you tried Steak and Kidney Pie?
Complaining about the mettle of your current "stalker"? See that's what's wrong with comics right there.
The comic blogosphere, the little train that couldn't.
Perhaps ADD would provide less FBR material if he hadn't turned himself into a frothing, one-man Bendis Board of late?
Alan, they're not stalking you. They're laughing at you. If you can't understand why they're laughing at you, then you really need to take a step back.
Always happy to provide some entertainment value, Paul -- that's more than we can say for your favourite comics, after all, yes?
Oh, believe me, Alan, you'd be catastrophically entertaining even in a good year.
Doane, take your pills, you're an embarrassment.
But Mark Millar thinks he's the most intelligent person on the 'net!
Ooh, snap! Good one, Thor!
Wow.
I would like to thank publicly all of the parties involved in this completely insane series of discussions, rants, and public meltdowns -- unintentionally hysterical and intentionally so alike -- for leavening what has been, for me, an otherwise long and trying week of school, work, and an impending birthday that involves a larger number than I care to think about. You are, all of you, the wind beneath my wings.
Sadly, my letters column, much like the rest of the site, affords a wider audience only for people who have small families and don't check to see how their stuff posted.
Every time I read my stats my software gives me the option of enabling a series of virtual tumbleweeds.
Isn't it great?
Isn't it great?
Dude, that's not wind. That's trumpy.
//Oo/\
(Now that's weird, because I definitely didn't click "Post" twice.)
Paul, that must be the exact point where the internet split in half.
"I would like to thank publicly all of the parties involved in this completely insane series of discussions, rants, and public meltdowns..."
You mis-spelled inane.
Fuck pie. CHEESE CAKE!
ADD has ADD. Oh yeah! I went there! Take that you Kochalkaholic!
ahem
"I would like to thank publicly all of the parties involved in this completely insane series of discussions, rants, and public meltdowns -- unintentionally hysterical and intentionally so alike -- for leavening what has been, for me, an otherwise long and trying week..."
Finally, somoene who gets it.
Heh, I'd like to echo Chris Galdieri's comment there - FBR updates always come at the end of a work day here (and brighten it up) but all this rampant anger has provided super entertainment during an otherwise shockingly dull week of work.
Alex,
That was kind of the point of my initial letter this morning at Comics Reporter -- I mean, here we are in a corporate comics atmosphere so absolutely bereft of entertainment that this week has been needed to get anyone excited about what they're reading. I mean, really, EXCELSIOR!
Actually, according to Alexa, excepting an atypical spike in June, Spurgeon's site has been routinely outdrawing CBG throughout 2005, especially over the past two months.
What I find hilarious is that for all his bluster, Alan seriously doesn't know how to READ! Really Alan do you only like your indies for the pictures or something? I'm searching all over the place to see where Graeme said he was bored with you and I'm seeing zilch. I'm STILL laughing about how you took Paul's complaining about nothing interesting going on in the entire industry to mean he's reading boring books. Dude your comprehension level is so bad I'm sending you back to Marvel Adventures. Go read an issue of Power Puff Girls and get back to us when you've finished second grade.
No Alan, you're just a gibbering fuckhead, sorry.
Oh. Haha. I get it. It's satire, like how Miller said DKII was. Ah ha.
Chris,
He said it here, but he keeps deleting it to work you guys up further:
"I wasn't offended by any of your comments as much as I was bored by them... I'm bored of your "Pushing Comix Forward" mentality that is stuck on one particular vision for what that actually means, worshipping a Pantheon of approved creators and publishers. I'm bored of your apparent need to belittle people who disagree with that vision. I'm bored of your pretense to fit into some idea of what a comic fan should be, instead of just coming out and saying, "Yes, I bought Green Lantern: Rebirth, it's not great but it's fun," or whatever. There was nothing you wrote that meant that I "had to" ban you from FBR - and apparently, you found a way back anyway - I'm just tired of your passive aggressiveness all the time, especially in that surreal comments thread."
Surreal comments thread, who'da thunk it?
And the Foam Award for Rabid Lunatic of the Year goes to...
You know, Alan, for someone who claims to despise the superhero genre so much, you certainly seem to enjoy employing the same tactics that made people like Chuck Austen, JMS and Bill Jemas so unlikeable - it's not enough that their opinion differs from others, it's that they have this compulsive need to point out that everyone else is an idiot for "not getting it" (as opposed to getting it and disagreeing with it).
You know what I don't get?
The fucking SPITE.
The spite people have for Doane. Some mask it in "oh, I'm huuumored by this," but it is spite. I know it well, I teach public school.
The spite directed at some corporate creators. They make crap; big deal, don't read it.
The utter spite just ready at any moment in this idiotic comic web community. People snip and snipe at whoever has a chance of making them look better, or whoever made them feel bad.
And now both "sides" of this goddam argument or fight or whatever the shit this petty thing is are just sinking further and further.
Snap the fuck out of it, people. Discuss comics, be they idiotic ones or great ones. But the people discussing comics aren't that good a discussion topic.
Yeah, most direct market shops are deplorably bad. Mine isn't; mine is Rocketship and it's great. Yeah, most comics are boring. Those are the ones you don't bother with; there are more great comics coming out than I can even deal with. But we're not talking about those goddam comics. We're talking about talking about comics and about the other people who talk about comics and about who hates whom and who gets more hits (nice one, Guy). It doesn't matter who you like or who you don't like. You're not 15 year old girls vying for attention. Fucking discuss the comics or go pick fights in real life.
Joe's right. Let's talk about comics.
ADD Reviews THE CUTE MANIFESTO
James Kochalka is a guy who just can't stop thinking about comics. He thinks about comics so much that other people who think a lot about comics have even appropriated Kochalka's most iconic statement on the subject to express their feelings on the matter. And while I believe Kochalka's very best work is by definition a work in progress, he certainly has come a long way since his earliest efforts within the artform.
One disgruntled former comics creator is even on record as saying Kochalka's work is a waste of paper, but it was instructive to me last year to meet someone who quite sincerely and convincingly recounted to me how Deadbear Detective -- one of Kochalka's earliest and most primitive works -- was a landmark moment in his comics-reading life that made him a lifelong devotee of the cartoonist's work.
If there's one thing I've learned in my seven years or so as a comics critic, it's that personal, passionately created comics will reach and oftentimes profoundly affect an audience despite any perceived technical flaws, poor production values or a failure to check one's spelling. So while a closed mind or an embittered heart might dismiss Kochalka's seeming simplicity of line or overarching narrative concerns, the loyal and increasing audience he has built in the years I have watched his career is proof that craft may not be the enemy, but when unaccompanied by sincerity or passion, one should hide the silver and lock up one's daughters while it's hanging around.
The Cute Manifesto arrives as a sort of accidental primer on Kochalka. Many of his storytelling styles and moods are on display in this thick little book, from the pensive naturalism of Sunburn to the playful but impassioned inquiries of The Horrible Truth About Comics. His Craft is the Enemy essays are here, too, and if they aren't a universal model for every single person who wants to pick up an artist's tools and begin a lifetime of self-expression, they certainly provide more valuable, honest nutritive value than, say How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way.
One of Kochalka's undeniably best-conceived works is here, too. Reinventing Everything started out as two mini-comics, outlining how Kochalka saw his life and his world after the paradigm-shifting events of 11 September 2001. Among other things, Reinventing Everything is an explanation of and rumination on his and his wife's decision to bring new life into the world. It is at times as light and insubstantial as the blinking lights of a videogame screen, and then in the same story deeply humanistic, powerfully immediate and heart-stoppingly honest. It's impossible to think that the boy at the heart of this story, Eli Kochalka, won't someday read it and be singularly moved that his father felt so much and was so unafraid to share his feelings about his child with the small part of the world that cares what he has to s
Say what you want about Alan but he runs the one of the smartest comics related web sites on the internet and he and his CBG contributors have steered me (and many others) towards some of the most intelligent comics being produced today.
Which is more than what Graeme and a lot of people here can say.
You may not agree with what he says and he may be overly aggressive at times but he puts his money where his mouth is and if Comic Book Galaxy disappeared tomorrow it would leave a huge hole in the comics internet-sphere.
"Fucking discuss the comics or go pick fights in real life."
I think you may have missed the point of Fanboy Rampage if you think we ought to be discussing comics.
Matt, I'm not one to eat organs involved in excretory functions, hence my love of all fruit pies, chicken pot pies, beef pot pies, and yes, even sour cream pies.
But steak and kidney? Not with a bargepole, man!
Alan David Doane Now Going
Door-To-Door Trying To Shock People
OVERLAND PARK, KS--Stung by a lack of attention and Eminem's supplanting him as Middle America's worst nightmare, shock blogger Alan David Doane has embarked on a door-to-door tour of suburbia in a desperate, last-ditch effort to shock and offend average Americans....
......world that cares what he has to say. It is just that, James Kochalka's unashamed and unmodulated love of life and all its complexity and contradiction, that makes his cartooning so valuable, so immediate, and so moving. I remain in awe of the achievement of Reinventing Everything, and I'm glad those two mini-comics have found new life in this more permanent form.
I wasn't altogether taken with the format and design of this book; I'd have liked it in larger dimensions, somewhere between here and the format of the Fancy Froglin volume. There's also perhaps a bit too much white space, which could have been used to feature the covers of many of the comics collected herein. Those are technical quibbles, though, and only impacted my enjoyment a bit. Ironically, probably the least affecting piece in this volume is the title story The Cute Manifesto. While obviously sincere and even factually accurate about both the universal cuteness of new life and the power of holding that life you've created in your arms, at just eight pages I sympathize with its intentions more than I can fully invest myself in its execution. That said, if I find it the weakest element of this volume, at eight pages it's hard to be terribly put out when so much excellence surrounds and outnumbers it. And hell, as my experience meeting that Deadbear Detective afficianado last year taught me, I could be all wet: You might think it's the best thing in this volume which contains so many good things...
For me, though, the real creative heart of this book is The Horrible Truth About Comics. It's not of terribly recent vintage -- Magic Boy's ears are longer and his hair is thicker than newcomers to Kochalka's work will expect -- but it is a long, thoughtful essay-in-comics-form that does that most magical magic trick of cartooning. The reader is utterly immersed and invested in the cartoonist's committment to exploring his own thoughts and ideas on the page, seemingly learning along with the reader what he believes and what he knows and pondering what still lies ahead in this most powerful artistic medium. "The biggest insult is a comic that sucks," Magic Boy says at one point, and we've all felt that sting of disappointment. "I don't mind a slap in the face if the result is a good comic," though, Kochalka notes; as one of the most forthright, emotional and observational of cartoonists, he certainly has suffered that -- at the hands of obsessive superhero hobbyists, jealous also-rans and confused
readers who think every comic strip ever created has to have an easily digested punchline and eschew self-examination.
For my money, though, anyone who can't find meaning in Kochalka's work either doesn't have the life experience to appreciate the bravery with which the cartoonist explores the universes within and without him, or is deeply afraid to face the ultimate revelation such self-examination might result in. In any case, The Cute Manifesto is a powerful, compact and convincing case for the enduring and increasing popularity of one of team.artcomix's Most Valued Players, a love letter to comics, to his son, and most gratifyingly to us, his readers. "Resolve to put the skills you do have to work now," he says, "and pick up more along the way." Kochalka knows the true enemy is not craft, but time, and the insidious manner in which it ticks away whether we choose to use it wisely or not. Create every day with passion and honesty, he seems to say, and your craft will improve by necessity and by nature. Kochalka's work over the years is an undeniable testament to this idea, and The Cute Manifesto is a wondrous documentation of his magical journey. Grade: 4.5/5
That review would probably have a lot more weight if you weren't, like, nuts. 
"Lack of attention," yes, Prince Brian, that is what I am suffering.
I thought "Nuts" was the Official Mascot of Fanboy Rampage, Diana?
Ah so your response to the argument is to point out that he's bored with you being snobbish jerk that you are, rather than him being bored with your ability to cause everybody to get into a tither on messageboards by BEING a snobbish jerk.
The two things aren't mutally exclusive Alan but they're close. This is Rampage!!! where nutball meassageboard threads are burned alive with talcum powder. You need to understand that there's a difference between not liking a jerk and enjoying the roasting the jerk receives for being a jerk.
It's like this week's issue of Batman. He doesn't like Black Mask or Joker, but he enjoys watching them beat the crap out of each other. (In what was otherwise a horrible travesty of a comic that should be destroyed for existance...)
Incidentally Graeme isn't getting us to burn you in effigy. You do that yourself just fine. Reep what you sow.
"You may not agree with what he says and he may be overly aggressive at times but he puts his money where his mouth is and if Comic Book Galaxy disappeared tomorrow it would leave a huge hole in the comics internet-sphere."
There is certainly much truth to this but I would respectfully suggest that Alan's obnoxious and wilfully arrogant attitude is only capable of appealing to those who, at least in general, already agree with him. He will alienate a thousand times more potential readers than he will ever attract for the comics he loves. If you want to convince people of your way of thinking, treating with them open contempt is generally a poor start.
I think you may have missed the point of Fanboy Rampage if you think we ought to be discussing comics.
I get the point. I think it's a bad point. I've said my piece. If people would rather catfight than talk about comics, then I got nothing for them.
Why are all these posts so long? How many sentences do you need to say, "Yes, cheese cake beats pie"? This isn't Student U.N. people, move it along!
Oh, we do "Broadmoor Hospital" nuts. You're Arkham all the way.
God, somebody save me from ADD's boring reviews.
ADD = Adipose-Distended Dramaqueen
Wait, wait WAIT! We're burning ADD in effigy? I thought it was John Byrne! I really need to start reading my email.
This is Rampage!!! where nutball meassageboard threads are burned alive with talcum powder. You need to understand that there's a difference between not liking a jerk and enjoying the roasting the jerk receives for being a jerk.
I kind of agree with you, Chris, but lets not pretend that the comments threads of Fanboy Rampage haven't become just as bad as anything that's ever been linked to for mocking.
And, yes, James, cheesecake beats pie. Cheesecake especially beats Cheese Pie, because Cheese Pie is just gross. I loves me some cottage cheese, but I'd never say baking it in a crust is a great idea.
"There is certainly much truth to this but I would respectfully suggest that Alan's obnoxious and wilfully arrogant attitude is only capable of appealing to those who, at least in general, already agree with him. He will alienate a thousand times more potential readers than he will ever attract for the comics he loves. If you want to convince people of your way of thinking, treating with them open contempt is generally a poor start."
If someone decides not to read Optic Nerve or Louis Riel because they think Alan's a prick then like Joe Rice said, I got nothin' for them.
This week's issue of Batman was utter CRAP! Can I just say that again? CRAP CRAP CRAP! It's the worst travesty in mainstream comics since Gwen Stacy got Norman juiced. How could DC print such garbage? How could they destroy a character with so much integrity? We need to turn all this ADD junk on that because I'm sure we can all agree it wasn't fit to poop on.
Busiek wins!
There I said my comic's piece for today.
Wow. Such....passion.
Am I the only casual comics fan who posts here?
"If someone decides not to read Optic Nerve or Louis Riel because they think Alan's a prick then like Joe Rice said, I got nothin' for them."
Yeah, because if I go up to somebody and say "You're a complete fucking idiot for not reading OPTIC NERVE", it's clearly THEIR FAULT when they don't accept my recommendation.
*raises hand* You're not alone, Andrew. You will never be alone. 
"Yeah, because if I go up to somebody and say "You're a complete fucking idiot for not reading OPTIC NERVE", it's clearly THEIR FAULT when they don't accept my recommendation."
Nobody ever says things like that, Paul, you and your ilk just take it that way.
Joe: I don't think you can honestly say that the spite isn't a well-traveled two-way street here. Doesn't make it right, but let's at least admit that ADD's no innocent bystander who stumbled into this forum and was set upon without reason.
Christopher: CBG definitely has some good writers, and many of them do a pretty good job of spotlighting interesting comics, both superhero and otherwise, which makes it that much more unfortunate that the site is frequently overshadowed by ADD's blustering antics and abrasive online personality.
In this specific case, though, where ADD blasted the comics retailing industry using broad stereotypes and personal anecdotes, he isn't putting his money anywhere near where his mouth is. Reviewing comics and offering snarky commentary on an obscure web site isn't Pushing Comix Forward any more than the often humourous commentary here on FBR is.
Alan, if you seriously believe that, you clearly never read your own writing. Your contempt for the mainstream audience is proud, open, and unashamed.
Really, Alan, it's not rocket science. You go on and on about how worthless the superhero genre is, a "defunct boy's adventure genre", etc. Which is tantamount to saying anyone who reads superhero stories is killing the industry, partaking in idiocy, whatever terminology your rant-du-jour contains. And then you're shocked when, upon suggesting they read "Street Angel" instead, you're met with a resounding "Fuck off, wacko."
Nobody ever says things like that, Paul, you and your ilk just take it that way.
No, but people (and I'm including me in this) have said "You know, the comics you read are shitty, and you should be reading this itself" (I'm paraphrasing here, obviously), which tends to put people on the defensive.
I've been on the defensive before, too, particularly in my recent post taking umbrage with Franklin Harris's dismissal of autobiographical comics. Someone says the comics you dig are shit, it'll probably sting a bit.
"Am I the only casual comics fan who posts here?"
There are no casual comics fans. We ran the last of those suckers off during the Hal/ Kyle "debates".
Paul,
The mainstream audience is reading manga and Marjane Satrapi. I think you mean the corporate comics audience, and I'll even leave off the sneer quotes, just this once, just for you.
And, oh, Heidi wins.
And I meant "instead" instead of "itself," so I'm a stupid fucking mouthbreather.
I agree with Joe Rice and Ed Cunard.
One, there's a ton of spite in all these discussions on both sides. It's kind of sad especially since I think both sides are reasonably intelligent people who go off the deep end occasionally.
Two, Fanboy Rampage for a while now seems to have turned into that which it mocks, which from the beginning everyone seemed to know would eventually happen anyway.
Three, Cheesecake beats everything but any kind of brownies.
Ya'll have fun now. Continue tarnishing the image of everyone that's involved in this in one way or another. Pretty soon this will all fade away because everyone will be too dull to read.
And I've got a free copy of Super-F*ckers #1 to the 100 poster in this thread. Just let me know, this kind of entertainment should be rewarded, and since Graeme almost never shares anything positive with his readers, I thought somebody should.
Me, I like strawberry pie. With whipped cream.
ADD has my family hostage...leave him alone, or who knows what might happen.
"Which is tantamount to saying anyone who reads superhero stories is killing the industry, partaking in idiocy, whatever terminology your rant-du-jour contains"
I vote for "partaking in idiocy."
Nobody ever says things like that, Paul, you and your ilk just take it that way.
Other than, you know, when you basically flat-out stated that everyone who dares voice an opinion that differs from yours should die.
du-jour mustard is good.
Did everyone here see the FANTASTIC FOUR movie yet? Because I haven't seen it yet, and everyone else I know already has.
Anyone wanna go with me? Paul? Alan? Graeme?
...what? I really want to see it.
Manga, yes. Marjane Satrapi, no, not unless you can produce some very impressive sales figures to back that up. EMBROIDERIES is a book billed by its publisher as "an entertaining and enlightening look into the sex lives of Iranian women." I find it hard to believe that this truly qualifies as mainstream by any reasonable definition. "Critically acclaimed and sold in bookshops" is not the same thing.
Or we can have pie. Thats good, too.
Come to San Francisco and it's a date, Neil.
Can't we all just get along?
Doane wants to be Gary Groth, but lacks the writing talent. So he tries to make up for it with tough talk and righteous indignation. Then people make fun of him and he gets to pretend he's being "oppressed." His heart's in the right place, at least.
By the way:
"And I've got a free copy of Super-F*ckers #1 to the 100 poster in this thread."
Does that include your own 15 posts and counting?
Yeah, I got nothing. I wanna join because it looks so fun, but yeah.....nothing.
And the whole thing started so simply, with a columnist mentioning that he was bored with his preferred entertainment vehicle.
THEN, the meltdown happened, based mostly on semantics and inferences based on argumentative conclusions instead of reality. It all brings us to the point where people are so busy fuming over each other that they miss the obvious FBR retorts. Take, for example, this quote:
"You may not agree with what he says and he may be overly aggressive at times but he puts his money where his mouth is and if Comic Book Galaxy disappeared tomorrow it would leave a huge hole in the comics internet-sphere."
And nobody responded with, "Wait, hasn't CBG already disappeared? At least twice?"
I'm so deeply ashamed of all of you.
Here's this argument in a nutshell.
Point
Counterpoint
Defend Point with less informed point
Respond against less informed point
Make mistake and defend less informed point instead of returning the argument to original point
Continue arguing less informed point
Saying stupid shit
responding to stupid shit
other people laugh at stupid shit on both sides
intelligent point on otherwise worthless point that no one really made
intelligent point on less informed point, but never returns to original point
intelligent point not relating to this at all somewhere in the wilds of the internet as Busiek says something
a decent point thrown in amongst nonsense
nonsense
nonsense
stupidity
and on and on and on...
and now I've added some more nonsense.
And, wait, where's Arune to discuss the merits of the latest episode of THE O.C. and how it's the cure for cancer?
Ah, I so miss the good ol' days. . .
If someone decides not to read Optic Nerve or Louis Riel because they think Alan's a prick then like Joe Rice said, I got nothin' for them.
I'm reminded of my ultra-liberal friends (ie. the ones who were even more left-wing than myself) who, in high school, said things like, "If people decide to become conservatives because they don't like liberals like Jerry Brown or Hillary Clinton, then they're stupid!"
In principle, I agree with this sentiment, but in practice, if you're actually trying to recruit a significant number of people to your cause, then you'd have to be absolutely fucking retarded to ignore factors such as this, because at least 90 percent of the population is indeed stupid.
And I include myself in the category, no matter how much I might aspire to be less stupid than most.
Graeme, you. me. movie. popcorn. making out. Fantastic Four.
Best date ever.
Neil: I've already seen it, but since I don't actually remember anything aside from drooling over Chris Evans and wishing Julian McMahon had taken his shirt off at least once (damn you, PG viewers!), I guess I can justify a repeat viewing.
Wonder what JesseBaker thinks of all this? I bet it's profane...
What's the old saying?
Arguing on the internet is like the Special Olympics: no matter whether you win or lose, you're still retarded.
There's your snark and political incorrectness, Augie! Someone has to bring FBR home!
Graeme must really like Alan and simply wants him to know how he's coming off, for his own good. Why else would he be so careful to say something such as "seeming breakdown". He once said I was "slightly crazy" and that's when I saw how much he really cares.
Rock on Graeme, you'll yet help make a man out of the man.
Hey, did anyone see the Transformers #0 preview they put up at Newsarama? SWEET.
Or the entire first issue of Elk's Run.
If someone decides not to read Optic Nerve or Louis Riel because they think Alan's a prick then like Joe Rice said, I got nothin' for them.
I was once given a copy of Summer Blonde by a girl I was dating, with a very sweet note that said "for my summer red head." Then I read a review on CBG in which my beloved Spiderman was drawn and quartered in one of its various reviews touting some indie book about god knows what.
Needless to say I never read that Summer Blonde...
Transformers? COOL! Is it tank Megatron or gun Megatron?
Transformers? COOL! Is it tank Megatron or gun Megatron?
Diana, if you want Graeme and I will take our shirts off in the theatre. It might not have the same effect, but still.
There's a difference?
I much prefer Spurgeon's Eight Stories for '05 to the letter column lately. Good stuff there.
did we hit 100?
By the way, the fact that TRANSFORMERS THE MOVIE was Orson Welles last screen credit should solve anybody's mainstream versus indie issues.
Neil Klied wins! E-mail me your mailing details if you want the book, Neil.
Yes, always!
"In this specific case, though, where ADD blasted the comics retailing industry using broad stereotypes and personal anecdotes, he isn't putting his money anywhere near where his mouth is. Reviewing comics and offering snarky commentary on an obscure web site isn't Pushing Comix Forward any more than the often humourous commentary here on FBR is."
FBR has provided me with a few chuckles and laughs during the workday. Nothing wrong with that; it is what it is.
CBG has exposed to me to more than a few comics that have entertained and engaged me on an intellectual level. Comics which will be re-read again and again; have been passed on to non-reading comic friends and will eventually be passed down to my children to read.
You know what was good? This week's CONAN. Busiek wins again because I totally just subscribed.
Welles' dying word? "Megatron."
Actually he wins for the contents of the comment too. I laughed. I cried. A good time was had by all.
You know, I've heard a rumour that 'Street Angel' is really rather good...
Paul: "Marjane Satrapi, no, not unless you can produce some very impressive sales figures to back that up."
I'm having a hard time finding recent sales figures, but I did discover that Persepolis Vol. 1 sold 35,000 copies at $17.95 each in its first year of release. Moreover, the mainstream media couldn't shut up about it. Check out this page at Powell's just for example:
http://www.powells.com/pbn/
books..._2004_0921.html
Persepolis is objectively more mainstream than House of M, and I say that as someone who's enjoying House of M.
Chris,
You know, though, that CBG isn't the only place to find good comics online. If it wasn't for Christopher Butcher's Previews Review (which is having problems, so I can't link it, but he put a temporary one up here), I'd have a lot more money to spend on food.
[Neil Klied wins! E-mail me your mailing details if you want the book, Neil.]
Oh, sure - but, uh... i dont have your email address...
"Persepolis is objectively more mainstream than House of M."
Yes, even given Paul's description about the sex lives of Iranian women. Especially because of that. Take off the super-blinkers, Paul.
Hey could anybody recommend any other really fun books like Conan? I'm so pissed at DC for what happened in BATMAN this week, (Leslie Thompkins killed Robin!) that I'm leaving many DC books behind and looking for the good times again!
alandaviddoane @ gmail dot com , Neil.
Street Angel was in fact a very good title. It sort of reminded me of Madman in it's early days. Street Angel was one of the better things I read this year (to date) along with Scott Pilgrim and the 2000AD Nikolai Dante reprints. And the best part is that these books came recommended by a friend of mine as opposed to some arrogant douchebag.
Ed,
I do know that but CBG was the first site I stumbled onto and it was actually CBG which pointed me to Previews Reviews.
Further to that it was today's ADD blog which pointed me to the newest Preview Reviews (hadn't been there in a while) which in turn made me call my LCS and pre-order Pyongyan: Journey into North Korea.
Don't be so modest, Goodrich, I'm sure you have friends who are arrogant douchebags, too.
I'm only in the side argument here, so don't see this as an endorsement of any side. But re: Marjane Satrapi and "Mainstream"
Arguing mainstream is a sucker's game, because there's no set line. There's "appears regularly on Charlie Rose" mainstream and "Hi, I'm Dolly Parton!" mainstream. There's "easy front page feature in Chicago Tribune's art section" mainstram and "first feature on Entertainment Tonight" mainstream.
It's all relative. Stupid game.
Still, for what it's worth, Marjane's sold over a half million copies of Persepolis worldwide and into the six figures here. For books that's a decent-sized mainstream hit, I would say reasonably comparable to other authors as manga is to other categories.
All right, let's take a vote: Should the 200th poster get a hardcover or a trade paperback as a prize? I bet we could keep this going for 24 hours straight. If we're gonna break the internerd in half, let's do it right, by God, and show Marvel how to do it!
Holy shit, have you nerds jumped the shark. Is there a Fanboy Rampage Rampage yet?
" Manga, yes. Marjane Satrapi, no, not unless you can produce some very impressive sales figures to back that up."
This is one thing I will agree with ADD on; people who wouldn't otherwise read tights'n'such read manga and Persepolis.
Within comics, superheroes are the mainstream; without, they are a niche, and the "indie" and "alternative" comics are the ones selling in bookstores and being assigned for college classes.
Not to say I hate superheroes. Because I don't. It's all just a matter of perspective.
"Persepolis is objectively more mainstream than House of M, and I say that as someone who's enjoying House of M."
35,000 is a good number for a book like that, to be sure, but I don't accept that that makes PERSEPOLIS "objectively more mainstream" than HOUSE OF M. After all, more than four times as many people are reading HOUSE OF M, and I rather doubt that the average person on the street has heard of either project. What makes PERSEPOLIS' 35,000 readers more mainstream than HOUSE OF M's 140,000?
I'm an arrogant douchebag, but only against DC fans. Too many dang capes for my taste.
Not that selling 35,000 copies of a book is anything to sneeze at, but out here in the real world, that's nowhere near being considered a mainstream success. It's only considered impressive because of the type of book it is.
If ONE person orders the unbelievably good "Pyongyang" as a result of this kerfuffle, the whole thing will have been worth it.
-Sean Collins (happy reader of New Avengers and Green Lantern: Rebirth)
"Still, for what it's worth, Marjane's sold over a half million copies of Persepolis worldwide and into the six figures here. For books that's a decent-sized mainstream hit, I would say reasonably comparable to other authors as manga is to other categories."
Fair enough, then. That IS mainstream success.
So wait a minute, if I don't appreciate Kolchaka's work, I'm either afraid or lacking in life experience?
How does my utter disinterest in his drawing style enter into that? I mean, if there's nothing I find visually appealingabout his comics, I'm not going to want to pick up his work. How much work should I have to do as a consumer/customer to make up for the artist's inability to engage me with his work?
You know what would make my day? If Bendis just decided to show up right now. I'm hard pressed to decide rather we would stay on subject or not?
Oh and because I keep forgetting to mention it, have any of you ever tried cheesecake brownies? They're the best.
Cheesecake AND brownies? How would that work?
That's just SICK.
go buy the new issue of daredevil! its got the kingpin in it! wee!
"All right, let's take a vote: Should the 200th poster get a hardcover or a trade paperback as a prize? I bet we could keep this going for 24 hours straight. If we're gonna break the internerd in half, let's do it right, by God, and show Marvel how to do it!"
Hey Alan, how about a hardcover to the person with the most posts praising ADD and CBG??
PERSEPOLIS did really damn well in '04, Paul
http://www.newsarama.com/pages/
T...Bookscan04a.htm
Don;t have access to this years numbers though. EMBRODERIES, for us, at least, is selling at about 25% of the volume of PERSEPOLIS - soldi but not exceptioonal
-B
Sick, but tasty. (Despite my allergies.)
But Guy, that IS the real world, since most of those sales were in bookstores by people who bought the book after reading about it in the New York Times, the New Yorker, Time, etc etc etc. Outside of a handful of huge-name authors, what do you think novels--or god help us, nonfiction memoirs like Persepolis--usually sell, anyway? 35,000 copies at $18 per is pretty terrific--most prose authors would kill for that, let alone for the fawning reviews and coverage that Satrapi got, probably the most of any graphic novel since Maus.
If you don't believe me that Persepolis is a huge mainstream success, though, perhaps this article from noted real-world publication Newsweek might do the trick.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8941.../site/newsweek/
It notes that Persepolis is now literally required reading at West Point. Can't get much more real world than that, can you?
So what's Persepolis about?
And Paul Cheesecake brownies are AWESOME but very hard to make. Just like brownies with chocalate pudding inside, which are also incredible.
Christopher, sorry, if I only awarded the prize to pro-CBG/ADD folks, the terrorists would win.
"So what's Persepolis about?"
This Iranian chick in a super-tight burqa who shoots bolts out of her hands. It originally was gonna be published by CrossGen, but they don't do superheroes.
Christopher, sorry, if I only awarded the prize to pro-CBG/ADD folks, the terrorists would win.
Wait, so pro-CBG/ADD people are terrorists?
Sorry. I really couldn't resist.
"This Iranian chick in a super-tight burqa who shoots bolts out of her hands. It originally was gonna be published by CrossGen, but they don't do superheroes."
Sounds like my last date.
"It notes that Persepolis is now literally required reading at West Point. Can't get much more real world than that, can you?"
To be fair, Sean, I think that's a bit of a red herring. There must be a ton of stuff on the West Point reading list which has a very narrow market indeed.