I suppose the snarky answer is "nobody's reading Gotham Knights", but I seem to recall somebody bringing this up a couple weeks ago. Maybe people were waiting to see if everything was as it seemed before getting outraged.
(I know, it's a stretch.)
My problem is, is that Batman comics are really shit at the moment, and that as soon as Morrison comes back to show us all how to make a corporate character and supporting cast really shine, Willingham et al will soon look very silly indeed.
Agreed.
The Alfred thing is almost certainly a ruse, so I can't get worked up about it.
Rememeber, Gotham Knights has been working heavily with the whole Hush "who is who? Is Clayface impersonating people?" etc.
So it more than likely WASN'T Alfred.
Compare that to the Leslie Thompkins instance, where there are no clues given to it being a ruse except, well, it made absolutely unsense.
I still say these books aren't actually being published and you people are suffering a mass hallucination.
This explanation is preferable to the alternative.
The Batman comics should be a lot better than they are. There was a $200 million+ movie (in case anyone forgot), and the only quality series out is Gotham Central. Come on, DC!
I'd work on that, but I'm too busy counting my giant stacks of money. And crying myself to sleep at night because ADD doesn't like any of my comics. Except Top Ten. And Planetary. Woe is me!
Wow, Larry Young just said superhero comics are kids' adventure stories. LOOSE THE HOUNDS AND LET THE DESTRUCTION BEGIN!
LOOSE THE HOUNDS AND LET THE DESTRUCTION BEGIN!
But it's Friiiiiiidayyyyyyy, and we're all too tired to do it. Larry's like the Bush administration and releasing a comment that, if let fly earlier in the week, would have made the comic blogger stir up a hornet's nest.
So when IS Seal Team Seven coming out? I want it N.O.W.
See, Larry Young actually works in comics. His opinion is valid. ADD is just some douchebag blogger. But thanks for buying my comic!
If I wrote Batman I'd have Alfred reveal Batman's identity to the public. Then have Batman force Robin to kill him on live tv. Then when Robin kneels down and starts to cry Batman would say "I don't have time for sissies in my war" and stomp kicks Robin in the face. This would rip his mask in half and the only reason people wouldn't be able to tll who Robin is is because of the crimson mask (ie, face covered in blood for you non-wrestling fans) he is now wearing due to that wicked ass kick.
Well, keep in mind Alfred also has amnesia over in Gotham Knights, and Clayface is running around.
And Poison Ivy's dead. And Jason Woodrue is apparently not the Floronic Man, and never was, even though he is in JLA. And he's dead, too. And Prometheus is an idiot who gets slapped around by Hush. Who's not Tommy Eliot, even though they said he was, and he says he is.
Alfred plugging someone fits right in.
this is totally off topic, (well, i guess, not TOTALLY) but all this is reminding me how much it irritated me at the end of dark knight 2 that dick grayson was the mysterious psychotic murderer.
Do you think that no one is paying attention to Gotham Knights, and that is why it is able to get away with so much suckiness?
I mean, holy crap, is AJ Lieberman stinking up the joint.
I don't even know how much of it I can blame on him and how much of it was just him doing what the editor told him to do, but man, either way, it may be DC's worst superhero title out right now, and that's saying a lot.
Does ADD realize that comparing himself to Larry Young at this blog (or anywhere oxygen intake is normal) is akin to smothering himself in gasoline and wandering into a bic lighter convention?
He must. It's a cry for attention isn't it?
Well, just to play Devil's Advocate, Young didn't seem to even consider the possibility of it being a hoax, a dream or an imaginary story. So, he obviously is just misinformed as to what superheroes and superhero comics are about.
Oh yeah, he didn't tell anyone to die, either.
Jesus, Tim, really? Gas-soaked at a Bic convention, eh? Good thing Alan didn't mention last years' Satan, Dave Sim, huh? 
And, yeah, I have no idea what's going on in superhero comics which is a red badge of courage I'll bear, all right. I have no idea what you all are talking about, half the time.
It's a Making Comics Better/Pushing Comix Forward showdown!
Damn, Matches, thanks for filling us in on Gotham Knights. What a stinker.
I still hate Dave Sim :P Once a month I read those fucking rambling Tangent "essays" that claim women are mush-brained and can only talk about things with anecdotes and analogies--all the while, every fucking argument the guy makes is supported by anecdotal evidence or some silly analogy!
Sim! Hate!
Larry Young, I kinda like.
Larry, as a person who this year stopped reading monthly superhero comics after nearly a monthly addiction dating back to 1977, I can honestly say you're better off not knowing what we're talking about. Speaking of not knowing what people are talking about, who is this Dave Sim you speak of? Is he some Neil Gaiman fanboy or something?
Oh and Larry, my effort to metaphorically light a fire near ADD was actually an effort to compliment you. A poor attempt, I admit. If ADD published Tom Beland then he could indirectly liken himself to you...maybe.
as soon as Morrison comes back... Willingham et al will soon look very silly indeed.
I don't think they need Morrison for that.
As for the Leslie Thompkins thing: DC, please, just have Santa Claus rape the Tooth Fairy and get it out of your system.
As for the Leslie Thompkins thing: DC, please, just have Santa Claus rape the Tooth Fairy and get it out of your system.
Wouldn't that be in the Infinite Crisis version of the Lobo Paramilitary Christmas Special?
DC, please, just have Santa Claus rape the Tooth Fairy and get it out of your system.
Someone's clearly read an advanced script to Miller's upcoming All Star Batman & Robin holiday spectacular arc...
Larry Young? He reminds me of Larry Kramer.
As long as he doesn't remind you of Larry King...
Someone mentioned the Shield, which has already done a similar storyline with Vic Mackey being betrayed by his mentor/father figure Gilroy.
As for Floronic Man, has someone finally had the brains to declare that all Floronic Man stories that happened immeadiately after Swamp Thing #21 (the Anatomy lesson) never happened and that the character never was an insane plant/hero/villain made out of pot?
of course Alfred did it.
He's the fucking butler! He also set up the death of the Waynes, the killing of Jason Todd and the creations of the Joker.
He's been waiting to take out all the sidekicks and he's waiting for Wayne to eventually die so he can inherit and then go kick in the Bahamas
Is the idea here that AiT has not published any adolescent power fantasies?
No, Sean; just because I personally don't get much out of adolescent power fantasies as an old fan of the form doesn't mean that I don't love the thirteen dollars when you buy an OGN we print up for an audience as publishers.
Between you and me, if vocal cats trying to impress their friends with the "snark" on the message boards understood that the world's a complex place and the context of statements really does matter, I'd have more time to spend on my house and its landscaping in the backyard.
But cross, bear, mine, etc. Go back to giving ADD shit; he's the crazy one.
Seriously, I fail to see how superhero comics are intrinsically more juvenile adventure stories than are stories about Tarzan, John Carter of Mars, the Shadow or many other adventure characters whose advantures have been read by an audience of all ages for decades. The fact that most current superhero comics are too caught up in continuity, eating their own tails, and wrecking established charcters isn't a criticism of the genre per se, nor of the few superhero books that are being done right.
Frank,
can I also interject characters in Anne Rice, Clancy and Grisham novels are also just a juvenile.
I'm just glad to hear Alfred's finally pitching in, and hope that Aunt Harriet gets off her lazy ass sooner rather than later.
"Between you and me, if vocal cats trying to impress their friends with the 'snark' on the message boards understood that the world's a complex place and the context of statements really does matter, I'd have more time to spend on my house and its landscaping in the backyard."
Oh, Larry. I don't have any "friends."
I mean, I don't even have anyone to share this whole "turns out the world is a complex place" revelation with except my journal.
"Seriously, I fail to see how superhero comics are intrinsically more juvenile adventure stories than are stories about Tarzan, John Carter of Mars, the Shadow or many other adventure characters whose advantures have been read by an audience of all ages for decades."
Seriously, then, Franklin, I said "kids' adventure stories." I didn't make any sort of judgment on whether they're "juvenile" or not, although I'm not sure "juvenile" is all that loaded a word. I do understand how some people might think it is, however, which is why I didn't use it. But people see what they want to see.
I'm also not sure how seriously I can take someone using "seriously" on Fanboy Rampage.
"I mean, I don't even have anyone to share this whole 'turns out the world is a complex place' revelation with except my journal."
Is the idea here, then, that WIZARD doesn't allow for nuanced critiques?
heh
You're right; willful misreading to make an entertaining cheap shot on a comment thread on FBR *is* fun. I'll miss this place when she's gone.
"Is the idea here, then, that WIZARD doesn't allow for nuanced critiques?"
Aw, shit--doing that is like mentioning Skull & Bones around John Kerry or George W. Bush. Now I have to leave the room.
Hello, everybody.
Please click here.
Thank you.
//Oo/\
"Those addicted to indignation need constant indignation feeding."
I love you, Bill Willingham.
The Floronic Man was explained in The Son of Vulcan mini. Due to Woodrue's nature as a plant-thingy, he has spawned various different offshoots of himself one of these could conceivably be depowered and killed.
Interesting; a shame no one has the brains though to bring Floronic Man back as seen in Anatomy Lesson as a big bad, complete with him doing an "Goldfinger Exposition Speach of Doom!" where he explains how he's spent the last ten years planning a master scheme to destroy the JLA while having all of his plant dopplegangers running around acting like insane lunatic while he works in the shadows...
Dude. PITCH IT.
i expect that this will be explained away eventually. especially if clayface is running around the arc. willingham has a nice sense of character. if alfred were killing to save someone's life--bruce's, particularly--i might take this at face value. otherwise...
well...i suppose i do have to remember that alfred was once the Outsider.
but it does raise a question. this kind of plot development--very trendy at the moment--does make for nifty blurbs in PREVIEWS, and buzz in the comic-reader community. and is admittedly in some senses more entertaining than running galvanic current through a dead frog to make its legs twitch.
but at some point, there's bound to be a backlash. nine times out of ten, when you see a classic comic book character actually doing something, well...Like You've Never Seen Them Before! seems to be the mantra of the day-- it doesn't represent a credible and interesting development of the character through time. it's an iconic character acting out of character...or being scripted out of character. if the character redefinition sticks, the publishers run the risk of the character losing the qualities that made them iconic in the first place. and if it's sluffed off when the character returns to his or her (or its) roots, well...it's a cheap forgettable trick.
to put an iconic character in a situation that forces them to do something that's contrary to their beliefs or intrinsic nature, though...that's a different kettle of fish entirely. have to be a good writer to do it. but that's the stuff of which some very fine stories have been made.
Agreed, John.
My fear with Willingham and the Leslie thing is that, according to Willingham, he came on to the book JUST to do this story.
So, as far as he is concerned, that is how the story ends.
Which is a shame.
As for the Gotham Knights/Alfred thing, I still don't think we know enough to make a statement about one way or the other.
The Lapham Detective series is really cool.
RE: the Leslie thing, that is the nature of the beast. Given the endless serial format, and the deepening fixation on misery, betrayal, anger, twist developments, etc. to sell these kinds of books, eventually every single stupid thing you can imagine happening to every single character will, in fact, eventually happen. Jimmy Olsen, pedophile? Aunt Harriet, cannibal serial killer? Zook, Islamofascist terrorist? It's all coming.
I'm not complaining about character betrayal, exactly. I don't really "respect" the brainchildren of Mort Weisenger, Denny O'Neil, et al enough to do that. But it sure does seem to make for some dispiriting, shit-awful comic books. Life really doesn't suck so much, and I can't understand why people find superhero comics done as steroid-enraged Chris Ware stories entertaining. DC keeps hinting that happier times lay ahead in the indeterminate future, and that all heroes need to be tested, but their books these days read as despondently as Sister Carrie or Maggie, a Girl of the Streets.
I can't understand why people find superhero comics done as steroid-enraged Chris Ware stories entertaining.
This is beautiful.
I may be in love with you a little bit now, Cole.
Commenting by HaloScan
