Fitz......SAVE US!!!!!!
Lobstergirl | 01.30.06 - 2:40 pm | #

Lieberman goes and where is Fitz??
ccmask | 01.30.06 - 2:40 pm | #

Slightly modified from below because it's really more appropriate here:

Twenty-two Senators came out against cloture today. That's a 22 more votes for a filibuster than anyone in the traditional media said was possible as of 10 days ago. What happened here was a big part of that.

I've said a few times that I think this was only a warm-up. As big as the impact of a Supreme Court appointment is, it's tiny compared to that of the upcoming hearings on the domestic spying program -- hearings that have the potential to lay the groundwork for impeachment and a total shift in the political landscape. And even though incredible pressure will be applied from the administration and its allies, I think we're starting those hearings ahead. If we push as hard in those hearings as we did on this vote, we could be living in a very different country come March.

Game on.
Adam | 01.30.06 - 2:41 pm | #

Hmmm...

I don't post much here anymore but I do still read regularly.

I see that someone else is now posting under the name 'a' and I just wanted to say for the record it's not me.
the old 'a' | 01.30.06 - 2:41 pm | #

Er, um 25 Senators against cloture, I mean.
Adam | 01.30.06 - 2:41 pm | #

Redd - count me in!!!!

ready, willing and able to fight
siun | 01.30.06 - 2:41 pm | #

I don't think there's going to be a fitzmas this year. Where do you think any court cases will go?

But, on the bright side, this will give me a wonderful opportunity to reply to Democratic fundraising letters with a new FOAD! rubberstamp.
David Parsons | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:42 pm | #

Love it. You are absolutely right. We did the right thing and now how about we take out the slimy Ed Henry.
nlacey | 01.30.06 - 2:42 pm | #

Adam - yep!
siun | 01.30.06 - 2:42 pm | #

COUNT ME IN!
Franco | 01.30.06 - 2:43 pm | #

Zennurse, We are FED UP with people like Nelson......we have been here for 2 days on and off faxing and calling.......I am so spent right now, I could cry........We want to start a grassroots group to oppose all FAUX DEMOCRATS here in Florida......Most of us worked our butts off to get Debbie Wasserman Schultz elected to congress, she is a GEM, articulate, smart, A REAL DEMOCRAT...she has made us proud, we have been calling her and we told her we want to find a candidate to run against Nelson. SHE LISTENED!
Franco | 01.30.06 - 2:43 pm | #

I'm gonna be stuffing my dirty laundry in those pre-paid contribution envelopes, I swear!!
ccmask | 01.30.06 - 2:43 pm | #

i'm mad as hell and i'm not gonna take it anymore
annie | 01.30.06 - 2:44 pm | #

Boxer will be up next, I think. Let's see what she will have to say.
meta | 01.30.06 - 2:44 pm | #

I think the vote shows that we are becoming a force on the political scene. The other thing it shows is that the traditional liberal interest groups like NARAL are fairly useless. We waited for leadership, they provided little or none.

I think that if we had been emailing-calling-faxing from day 1, it might have made the difference.

Lesson learned. Next time, we'll show up earlier. Let's get started on the NSA hearings right now.
JoshA | 01.30.06 - 2:44 pm | #

GO BARBARA BOXER...she is GREAT!
Franco | 01.30.06 - 2:45 pm | #

That's as good a place to start as any. Who's with me?

I can't think of anyone I'd rather have as my Henry V!
Redshift | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:45 pm | #

Thanks for this post. It is just an inning and I too am seeing a real democracy re-emerging. We just need some time to harness all this energy and bridge better to our Democratic electeds and figure out how work together. We will. It has just begun.
Lynn | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:45 pm | #

The next votes that come up are by us, not senators. And I bet we have the numbers to change things.
cathy | 01.30.06 - 2:45 pm | #

Exactly, right, ReddHedd/Christy.

The next fight is exactly 7 days from today: the hearings on domestic spying.

We need to start demanding today that our Senators and members of Congress reclaim Congress' authority to protect the rights of Americans against a President who has broken the law and shredded the 4th Amendment by telling his agencies to do spying on Americans without Congressional approval and without a warrant.

It is a simple meme. And we need to e-mail, fax, and telephone the Congress to demand accountability.

This is not a battle to enforce the Constitution in a lawsuit, in a court.

This is a battle to ask the Congress, as our allies, to reclaim its power to protect us from an over-reaching, all-powerful Executive.

I think that even some of our Senators should be able to understand that.
.
Prof | 01.30.06 - 2:46 pm | #

Oh no, Inhofe is coming up. This should be giggleicious. I wonder if he will pontificate on the Global Warming Hoax.
Lobstergirl | 01.30.06 - 2:46 pm | #

Barbara Boxer on the attack. Thank goddess.

Just noted that Hagel did not vote.
native Californian | 01.30.06 - 2:46 pm | #

Reddhedd: I grew up in a neighborhood in New York and Twisted Sister was the house band many many years ago.
ccmask | 01.30.06 - 2:46 pm | #

Let's make sure the Terrific 22 get our thanks for stepping up.

Let's also support challengers for the Vichy Dems.

As for the decadent Dem establishment, starting now they have to earn back our efforts. We need to be demanding up-front "proof of performance" before they get another penny donated or another nanosecond's worth of volunteer effort.
al-Scooter | 01.30.06 - 2:46 pm | #

I'm embarrassed to be a Democrat today.
The Ringmaster | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:47 pm | #

BALLOTING SECURITY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE BEFORE US.
ceci | 01.30.06 - 2:47 pm | #

I knew Dee's (of Twisted Sister)voice teacher in New York, Had lunch with him a few times.
Franco | 01.30.06 - 2:47 pm | #

Or as JoshA put it, "Next time, we'll show up earlier. Let's get started on the NSA hearings right now."
Prof | 01.30.06 - 2:47 pm | #

I'm with you.

"...And I will grind teeth on flint tongue till the flint screams. Truth is all..."
-Robert Penn Warren
s. brady | 01.30.06 - 2:47 pm | #

Ouch! I thought it was going to be closer. We need to send the 72 losers to the crapper. Flush twice, it's a long way to hell!
Mark B. | 01.30.06 - 2:48 pm | #

I just finished the whole thing at Kos, wherein a staffer made a challenge that, if 200 people called in 20 mins, Bingaman would change his mins, vote no. Of course it was a hoax, but the message board made it seem like the Bingaman phone was SWAMPED. So here's my challenge:
Take all those phone numbers and fax numbers and email addresses and use them to give the DINOs a piece of our minds. I've called to tell Bingaman to never expect another vote or dollar out of me.
Sara Anne | 01.30.06 - 2:48 pm | #

We the people are the Majority!!!
We are with you.
They will not prevail.
Bite Me | 01.30.06 - 2:48 pm | #

Damn right--we have only begun to fight. And every so-called Democrat who thinks we will forget about this when reelection time rolls around is sadly mistaken. Primary challengers, anyone?
Leslie in CA | 01.30.06 - 2:49 pm | #

Rather than opposing certain Dems, why not support the hell out of the ones who voted NO. Crash their phone lines in support. Everyone expects to hear angry calls. Screw that. If you're thankful to the brave senators, let them know.

I'm sure some of the cloture voters will take notice if the filibuster Senators see a spike in their contributions. Why don't the filibuster blogs join together to set up a fundraising effort for the ones who voted against cloture? That will get you more notice than a dozen angry emails/phone calls.
gq | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:49 pm | #

Thanks for the talk, Redd. I'm pretty tired, and some days it's worse than others. But if we don't fight, they win. I hope lots of us show up to the next "town hall" meeting our senators give and ask some polite but pointed questions.

Next up, Arlen Specter and the FISA mess. This ought to be a dabba-do time...
merciless | 01.30.06 - 2:49 pm | #

Barbara Boxer: Although we knew the votes were not there for the filibuster, we though it appropriate so that the American people would know that we are even willing to pursue a losing effort, because the stakes are so high.

Yes, that's exactly the point.

And the stakes are high next Monday, and in the 7 days before that.
Prof | 01.30.06 - 2:49 pm | #

"All this Faxing and phone calling and e-mailing...has scared the bejeebers out of the Washington establishment over the last couple of weeks."

Redd, I think this was an important fight to fight, and I don't discount the important work that FDL does.

But could you provide evidence for this statement?

If by Washington establishment, you mean the Washington press, they pretty much universally discounted the filibuster threat. I didn't see any evidence of fear.

And if Washington establishment means the Senators themselves, I think the vote was pretty clear evidence that they weren't scared of us.
the old 'a' | 01.30.06 - 2:49 pm | #

I just called for the resignation of Senator Diane Fienstien. I believe that she only voted for a filibuster after Cindy Sheehan announced that she would run and she knew that they didnt' thave the votes. She deserves to go.
agpennington | 01.30.06 - 2:49 pm | #

It is but one battle for what will prove
to be many more. It will take a strong
stomach.
Semanticleo | 01.30.06 - 2:50 pm | #

i'm there. one foot in front of the other.
brkily | 01.30.06 - 2:50 pm | #

The upordownvote should be closer, we'll still lose but not this bad. Oy.
Cozumel | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:50 pm | #

to the old a

Lets make them scared of us. They are just not used to the power we have yet. I donate to the dems I will not donate another penny to anyone who doesn't do what the majority of us want.

Ag penn
agpennington | 01.30.06 - 2:51 pm | #

I'm in. I called my waffle king Senator Kohl -- he is up for re-election this year, and he is NOT getting a dime from me. I have also told NARAL and HRC to quit calling me -- I have had it with the "compromise" positions and support of DINOs and "pro Choice" Republicans. Even Obama looks like a big waste of my time pussy! I sent him money last time... NOT anymore. Not one thin dime to anyone who will not FIGHT and fight hard for the things that matter to me.
drunken hausfrau | 01.30.06 - 2:51 pm | #

we're raising the "DON'T TREAD ON ME" flag today.
brkily | 01.30.06 - 2:51 pm | #

ReddHedd and Jane,

Thank you so very much for your unending supply of energy, meaningful ideas and optimism. You make it tolerable again to be living in this parallel universe we call home today.
yogalinda | 01.30.06 - 2:52 pm | #

Im wrapping up my copy of "Losing America" and sending it to Sen Byrd, tell him I'm ashamed to have it in my house......fuckers
rkrider | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:52 pm | #

Woke up to the disappointing news.

Have to keep my promise to DiFi, though, to support her when she runs for President of the New Republic of California.

If the Constitution is going to be thrown out, why shouldn't the various States declare the Union null and void?

Who would have thought that the South would prevail?

On the other hand, if it's better to lose a war than to win it (think of Japans and Germany), this is one fight we've lost. Let's think of ouselves as battle-hardened veterans and prepare for the next one.
notjonathon | 01.30.06 - 2:53 pm | #

BALLOTING SECURITY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE BEFORE US. ceci | 01.30.06 - 2:47 pm

Amen. A country without secure, verifiable elections is not a democracy. We have lots of important battles to fight, but this one needs to be on the front burner.
Leslie in CA | 01.30.06 - 2:54 pm | #

This posted on Kevin Drum's blog. I think it's a question we will have to address.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

"ALITO AND THE 'SPHERE....The lefty blogosphere has spent the last week trying to fire up support for a filibuster of Samuel Alito. This campaign was never likely to succeed, and today it failed as expected. But that's not all: it failed by the embarrassingly lopsided margin of 72-25.

I'm glad the filibuster took place, because even in failure it puts a marker down for future court fights. Still, even I expected it to get more than 25 votes. So here's today's assignment: In 5,000 words or less, what does this say about the influence of the lefty blogosphere?"
susan | 01.30.06 - 2:54 pm | #

What sickens me now is the thought of all those Democrats -- even many of the Alito opposers -- who'll sit and clap politely tomorrow night during the SOTU.

Remember last year, when Bush started a sentence by mentioning that the Patriot Act was due to expire in a year, and before he could finish, a whole mess of Democrats (and possibly a libertarian Rethug or two) burst into applause?

I want A LOT more moments like that tomorrow night.

A little straight-up heckling wouldn't hurt either, not to mention a contingent of Democrats standing and turning their backs on the pResident. Too much to hope for, I guess. But the Democrats know, today better than yesterday, that a solid constituency exists for such action.
ralphbon | 01.30.06 - 2:54 pm | #

Maybe I read too much into the impact of Alito on the bench, but I do not have much hope for Congress to act appropriately on the FISA/NSA hearings - after all, 72% of them just institutionalized the view that the president is above the law.
Pacifica | 01.30.06 - 2:54 pm | #

From the Menedez speech:

"What will morning in America look like if Alito becomes a Justice?"

It might just be the Republican's worst nightmare - they are ill prepared for the internet insurgency/guerrillas who are demanding Truth and Justice. Now. They need to remember: when you least expect it, expect it.

And Democratic Senators - you're also on notice. Don't play us like dupes or manipulate us like pieces on a chess board. We know what that looks and feels like, even coming from a Democrat. The blinders are off. You've been warned.
Delphyne | 01.30.06 - 2:54 pm | #

Ag penn -

I agree. They should be scared of us. I'm wondering for myself how to make that happen. I'm not yet convinced that the 'swarm' effect -- whether it's O'Beirne's book, or DebHo, or the filibuster fax brigade -- is effective action.

I'm asking for an honest evaluation of effective tactics.

And if we can get the Judiciary Dems scared enough to read Greenwald's questions to Gonzales, I'm all for it. Completely for it.

But I just hope the 'friendly Dems' (a la Kennedy) don't take our enthusiasm as license to act like an idiot by asking ridiculous questions in the committee hearings and staging a symbolic filibuster that ended up being a symbol of democratic failure.
the old 'a' | 01.30.06 - 2:55 pm | #

Damn. I just realized something.

I got off the phone with Senator Levin's office at 5:30 PM.

THEY CALLED ME.

Holy crap, that's twice in a month that his office CALLED ME.

Stay on this, you guys. It doesn't take much, really. You need to call both of your Senators' offices and find out when they are going to be in your area next, find out who's setting up the even they will be at, insist on attending. Shake their hands, introduce yourselves, ask a good question, follow up with a detailed letter on the topic to their office.

And you will get a call back. If you make a dent in their consciousness, you can make an impact when it counts, like during important votes.

RIGHT NOW: Fax, email, call your Senators offices and tell them thank you for their Yea vote. If they voted Nay, then call and find out when you can see them in the flesh. They can't weasel out easily if you've been in their face.
Rayne | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:55 pm | #

The old a -- I mean the folks who take the phone calls and faxes, the pollsters and the folks who do all the consulting -- who, according to several e-mails I've received today from folks I know around town, could not BELIEVE the volume that ratcheted up the past few weeks. And I'm not talking just about from FDL readers, for heavens sakes -- dKos has been on this for quite a while along with a lot of other blogs we've been linking the last few weeks on this single issue.

Phones and faxes around the Hill have been swamped. E-mails have overflowed. Not something they were expecting, I'm told -- and it was an eye opener.
ReddHedd | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:55 pm | #

Just posted at "home," thought I'd share it with y'all.

A few thoughts, while Daily Kos and CSpan.org recover from the massive flood of traffic. (I was watching the thread over at firedoglake).

ReddHedd put up Shakespeare's St. Crispin's Day speech from Henry the Fifth... and yanno, she's right. This is a battle, and those of us that have been fighting, are holding true to what we learned about the Constitution and democracy, and that continue to fight from this day forward... we're a group of amazing human beings, possessed of a great deal of heart and courage.

*turns to the Senators that voted "aye" for cloture*

Now you people had better DEFEAT Alito's nomination tomorrow. If you don't, you will have branded yourselves as totally, unconscionably indifferent as to the rule of law.

I will withhold my outrage until then, because to go off on you before this fight is done is a waste of energy and effort - and I would prefer to respond to your actions with full knowledge. But if you voted "aye" for cloture, and tomorrow you vote "nay" on Alito's confirmation, you reveal yourself to be both contemptible and duplicitous - unless you work very, very hard and make sure that Alito's nomination fails.

We're not going to win the next battle if we treat potential allies like this:

I just called for the resignation of Senator Diane Fienstien. I believe that she only voted for a filibuster after Cindy Sheehan announced that she would run and she knew that they didnt' thave the votes. She deserves to go.

I'm just saying. You know, if you say that you're never going to vote for someone again or donate, why are they going to listen to you next time. Do you people communicate with people in the real world? Is this how you treat someone who's help you will need in the future? No wonder progressives lose.

What this cloture vote showed is that Dems trust moderate voters much more than they trust you. Think about that as you're sending you angry phone calls to hapless staffers (whom you are turning off from the process). Think about your angry calls impact the next time you may need their help.
gq | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:56 pm | #

"In 5,000 words or less, what does this say about the influence of the lefty blogosphere?"

It says they aren't scared of us. Yet.
Susan in Iowa | 01.30.06 - 2:56 pm | #

I'm in. Apathy only postpones one's cynicism, it requires action to cure it.
Robert | 01.30.06 - 2:56 pm | #

I think this did have an impact, simply not enough.

We have the public, we need the discipline and the organization.

Our opponents are both, and well-funded too, but their agenda does not represent the majority.

We will keep taking the fight on, whereeveer we meet it, and continuing doing whatever necessary.

That being said, we made a lot of promises over the last week and made a lot of threats.

I think it's essential we follow through on both.

Send notes and cash to those who stood up. It wasn't easy.

Those who stood down, especially Lieberman, well, let's make them pay!!!!
Urban Pirate | 01.30.06 - 2:56 pm | #

Thank you, Redd!!!

Mrs. K8, reporting for duty, ma'am!

[Although I am taking a teensy break tonight watching Robert Montgomery on TCM -- it's one of the best ways for me to recharge the ol' batteries.]

Tomorrow: aux barricades, citoyens et citoyennes!

(Hope I got that right. I don't really speak French.)
Mrs. K8 | 01.30.06 - 2:56 pm | #

Reposted from below:

I am going to pop in and make a note. I have been following along. I sent emails and faxes with everyone else.

This was a fight. This is the first _real_ fight I have seen from the grassroots.

I am not that upset at the loss, I suppose I could be... But we don't know the future yet. We just know what happened today, not tomorrow or the next day.

You choose your battles, you pick your fights. This was a worthy one. It still is.

But I can tell you one thing for sure. If you do not fight... You will never win.

Going into battle, a new army is going to take some losses. Be thankful we are fighting with computers, telephones and fax machines.

Lost battles are normal in a war. Do not lose heart. This was the first _real_ battle we have fought.

If you survive, and learn... You can improve, and do better at the next confrontation.

I want to drive one point home. The war is on now. You can't let up, you cannot let them gain ground on you. They must be kept on the defensive, until we can pin the crushing losses that will destroy the opposition.

Do not give up heart. That is unacceptable. If you are going to fight a war, you stay in it until you win... Or you decide it cannot be won and you surrender.

We are winning this one.
Me3 | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:56 pm | #

ReddHedd,

Thank you. That's reassuring. And I do hope something comes of it.
the old 'a' | 01.30.06 - 2:57 pm | #

With all t his pent-up energy, any weak links whose vote tomorrow we could flip?

What are the numbers right now, 56 in his favor? It would only take seven...
Lis Riba | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:57 pm | #

agpennington, did Cindy Sheehan really say she'd run against DiFi? I haven't heard anything about it; it would make my day, if true.
Leslie in CA | 01.30.06 - 2:57 pm | #

Thank you Redd for the encouragement. My tail is not between my legs.

The problem is that the current democratic party is voting and acting like neocons. We need to send an all new independent group to dc!

When Howard Dean sends me his stupid donation thing, I'm donating to Kerry instead. And I'll say to Kerry, "Find people who will run with these values with my donation..."

That's it.

Sorry Reid and Howard. You can't convince us Dems are better than Republicans when they act like one of the Republican herd.
Silence is Complicity | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:57 pm | #

Adam - game on.
Kathryn in MA | 01.30.06 - 2:57 pm | #

semantaloc

After what I witnessed today, my stomach is stronger than ever. Keep it up, we are strong and getting stronger, let them know everyday how we feel. When I called Feinsteins office, they poor fella was truly surpised at what I was say. Hang tough. We are gonna have to be tough to take back our constitution, but there are so many of us I am just pumped, we lost the battle, but I believe we will win the war. Let' go
agpennington | 01.30.06 - 2:58 pm | #

So, which title will Clusterfuck choose for himself: "President for Life" or "Exalted Mystic Emporer"?

'cause that's about the only question left to be answered here.

Now I get to watch that smirking chimp on TeeVee tomorrow night. Whoopee!
Bob Adams | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:58 pm | #

since IANAL, I was wondering, after Alito is confirmed, what is stopping the Justice Dept from just having the "new and improved" SCOTUS from ruling that , "Yes Virginia, George Bush CAN do everything he wants." ? What would stop anyone who is convicted in the case Fitzgerald is prosecuting from appealing their conviction all the way to the SCOTUS to have their good buddies write a convoluted and irrational decision that essentially lets them off the hook in a 5-4 decision? Presidential pardons make you look bad, but if the Supreme Court says there wasn't a crime, then you're not a criminal! The fact they can overturn Roe v. Wade is just icing on the cake. This was REALLY about turning the SCOTUS into the same kind of rubber stamp machine Congress has become, don't you think?
sebastian trump | 01.30.06 - 2:58 pm | #

OK Washington State folks! We need a Dem challenger to Cantwell ASAP. She needs to go back to the corporate world since she's useless in the Senate. Any suggestions?
jan | 01.30.06 - 2:59 pm | #

We need to harness the frustration and anger this vote created on the 19 DINO Slugs who sold us out. Do we have a list yet?

Vyan - truth2power
Vyan | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:00 pm | #

First off thanks to this site for leading the cause and standing up for your beliefs...unlike some other sites that had already admitted defeat and quit the race even before it was officially over. And I am almost certain some of them are already writing their "I told You so" blog posts as I write this. I say to them screw you. I fought/worked my arse off for quitters like them until the bitter end even though realistically I never thought we had a chance in hell of defeating this nominee. But at least there is one thing I can do that they can't ,and that is to say I never stopped trying,caring, and never ever quit.

I admire your spirit, your committment, and your never stop trying until it is officially over attitude. Thank you !
my too sense | 01.30.06 - 3:01 pm | #

So, say you were trying to develop the power of telekenesis and you were concentrating on trying to make a pencil roll across a table. Would you be disappointed if the pencil only moved a little bit? Would you say, "Fuck it. I'm never going to get that sucker to roll across the table."?

Of course not. You'd say, "Holy fuck! It moved!"

Holy fuck. It moved.
Dave Latchaw | 01.30.06 - 3:01 pm | #

Those of us from the last time around, Civil Rights Movement I, see you as winners. It was a wonderful thing to watch and read the energy, passion, and expertise that was mobilized this weekend. It's painful to watch our hard won progress of forty years ago gobbled up by the current Neoconservative cabal, but it was terrific to see this generation waking up and getting psyched.

Kudos to all of you, but particularly to the leadership of Firedoglake...

http://1boringoldman.com/index.p...006/01/30/damn/

...
Mickey | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:02 pm | #

Time to start a true liberal party--basically, the dems broke 60/40 to protect roe and the constitution. The 25 with balls are welcome, the others can ask Abramoff for money. The new party should have in its charter; cowards need not apply.
In politics there are no moral victories---we lost. BTW, Obama gave aid and comfort to the enemy--he can go fucc himself. He's not welcome either.
Mel | 01.30.06 - 3:03 pm | #

The answer for Kevin Drum is easy: the lefties won.
citizen k | 01.30.06 - 3:03 pm | #

OK Washington State folks! We need a Dem challenger to Cantwell ASAP. She needs to go back to the corporate world since she's useless in the Senate. Any suggestions?

At this point, i'd be willing to contribute money to Vincent Price's dessicated anus if i thought it could defeat Cantwell. or as I'm goign to start callign her "Can't-win"
frenchy lamour | 01.30.06 - 3:03 pm | #

We are most certainly with you. Onward.

And a special thanks for reminding us of the beauty and power of Shakespeare.
meta | 01.30.06 - 3:04 pm | #

Sheehan considers challenging Sen. Feinstein

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — American peace activist Cindy Sheehan, whose son was killed in Iraq, said Saturday she is strongly considering running for office against U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein because the California lawmaker will not support calls to immediately bring the troops home.

Cindy Sheehan speaks at a Sacramento town-hall style forum at The Sacramento Coalition to End the War in Iraq.
By Hector Amezcua, The Sacramento Bee

Sheehan, who was visiting Venezuela for the World Social Forum along with activists from around the world, said she has been thinking of challenging Feinstein for her seat for some time.

"I think this is so urgent and necessary that this is what I have to do," Sheehan told The Associated Press in an interview, adding she would make a final decision on whether to run after talking it over with her three adult children in California in the coming days.

The Democratic primary will be held in June, and candidates must submit their statements by Feb. 14.

Sheehan, 48, who lives in Berkeley, Calif., accused Feinstein of being out-of-touch with Californians on Iraq.

"She voted for the war. She continues to vote for the funding. She won't call for an immediate withdrawal of the troops," said Sheehan, who gained international attention when she set up a protest camp near U.S. President George W. Bush's Texas ranch last year.

"I think our senator needs to be held accountable for her support of George Bush and his war policies," she added.

Feinstein's campaign manager, Kam Kuwata, denied that.

"She doesn't support George Bush and his war policies," Kuwata said by phone from California. "She has stated publicly on numerous occasions that she felt she was misled by the administration at the time of the vote."

But with troops committed, Feinstein believes immediate withdrawal is not a responsible option, Kuwata said. "Sen. Feinstein's position is, 'Let's work toward quickly turning over the defense of Iraq to Iraqis so that we can bring the troops home as soon as possible.'"

Kuwata said Feinstein and Sheehan appear to have a fundamental disagreement over whether troops should be pulled out right now. "That's why they have elections, and if she decides to file (paperwork to run), so be it," he said.

Sheehan, whose son Casey was killed in Iraq in 2004, said running in the Democratic primary would help make a broader point.

"If I decided to run, I would have no illusions of winning, but it would bring attention to all the peace candidates in the country," she said. "And I know I would be able to at least have some influence on policy."

Sheehan earlier had criticized the veteran senator for not immediately backing a filibuster of Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito.

Feinstein announced on Friday that would in fact support that filibuster, the same day Sheehan issued a statement saying she would run against the senator if she didn't take a harder line.

Democrats fear Alito would shift the court rightward on issues including abortion, affirmative action and the death penalty.

In a speech to more than 100 activists on Friday, Sheehan said Bush "should be tried for war crimes" and asked: "How many more American troops are going to be killed while we sit here waiting for spineless public officials to do something?"

Sheehan said she would head to Washington Sunday for protests against Bush's State of the Union address on Monday, and then return to California to discuss her idea of running against Feinstein with her son and two daughters.

"We're going to have a little family meeting about it," she said. "If any of them are diametrically opposed to it, I can't do it."

But, she added, her children have been fully supportive of her activism up until now, "so I can't see — if they think it's going to help peace — that they would be opposed to me doing it."
susan | 01.30.06 - 3:05 pm | #

John Casper @ 2:35 pm (previous thread) - "ReddHedd, wrt to your hopes that Alito will turn into another Souter. You know a lot more about this than I do, but maybe Roberts will be the one to turn into a Souter? Alito imo will follow Roberts and Scalito, just like Clarence does. If Roberts splits from Scalia, Alito might go with Roberts?"

Let's think about this: how much influence can the most junior associate justice exert? How many Supreme Court justices have moderated or changed their judicial philosophy at some point in their tenure on the Supreme Court?

I recently read that Justice Anthony Kennedy might shift more to the center. And if, John, as you suggest or hope, Chief Justice Roberts moves toward the center, that will go a long way toward alleviating concerns about Samuel Alito. Time will tell as we keep up with forthcoming decisions handed down by the Supreme Court.
Stephen Parrish, CPA | 01.30.06 - 3:05 pm | #

I'll be working to build third parties now, because the cloture vote revealed that the two party system is broken beyond repair.

Someone has to move the middle back leftward and despite a good core of real Democrats, they lack the strength to force compromise even within their own party.
KevinHayden | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:05 pm | #

To start with we can all go over and show Ned Lamont some love.

Who's Ned Lamont?

The man who's going to kick Lieberman's ass out of the Senate.
Kevin de Bruxelles | 01.30.06 - 3:05 pm | #

Redd,

Thanks. I'm with you all the way.

As one who just "woke up" recently. I think that's a good way to put it.

Anyway, I've just recently realized the power of this medium and -- like GW -- I intend to wield my power as well.

I've already said thank you to Jane when I found this site, but I need to thank you too.

You guys have made me realize that I don't have to try to sift through the "spin" anymore.

I can ask questions of my elected officials personally. I can question news reports personally.

And I can let my elected officials and news reporters know that I am watching and I will be expecting answers.

Thanks. I'm with you.
Tony Ross | 01.30.06 - 3:05 pm | #

TROLL

IP: 202.142.210.204

YuXu | 01.30.06 - 3:05 pm | #

It's the money...even small donations make an impact. Send money to say Thank you to the 25 who stood up for us. Send the 19 DINOs their solicitation envelopes filled with letters explaining your disgust and pointedly letting them know you will send money to their primary challenger! They all seem to take notice when a constituent is a DONOR.

I am sending Feingold a small donation thank you -- and Kohl, a big fat raspberry!
drunken hausfrau | 01.30.06 - 3:06 pm | #

Sarah B. | 01.30.06 - 2:42 pm | #
Thanks for the link to Mark Wilson’s site. My donation is on the way.
RBG | 01.30.06 - 3:06 pm | #

gotta be away from the 'puter for a bit ... don't start the revolution w/o me!

btw - I'm calling with thanks to the good guys, but I'm also giving hell to the ones who caved and I want a little visit with Obama ... wishywashy support when he could have spoken for us ....pffft!
siun | 01.30.06 - 3:07 pm | #

"What this cloture vote showed is that Dems trust moderate voters much more than they trust you. Think about that as you're sending you angry phone calls to hapless staffers (whom you are turning off from the process). Think about your angry calls impact the next time you may need their help."
gq | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:56 pm | #

Hey gq, ever see a successful political party without a base?

Didn't think so.

Or do you believe that the rank-and-file that's been keepin' the donations comin' and turnin' out to go door-to-door and work the phones come election time are made up of Democrats who are just like Republicans but haven't gotten around to changin' their registrations yet, all the while lovin' themselves some war porn from the Preznit? Because if you do, I have a bridge you want to buy from me.
al-Scooter | 01.30.06 - 3:07 pm | #

Thye have won the SC. We will re-take the Congress and the Exxcutive Branch!
Patrick J. Fitzgerald | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:09 pm | #

I'm not going to lie... I'm let down.... again. I really, really think the general public has taken Alito's nomination too lightly and don't fully grasp the ramifications.

But the defeat if different this time. I take heart and solice to know that people of fdl, dkos, agonist, and others are ready to fight the next good fight. Apparently our elected officials won't do their jobs unless WE jam our comments down their throats. Grassroots indeed. I'm ready for the next round. I'm ready to start on the FISA/NSA campaign.
dgf | 01.30.06 - 3:09 pm | #

i watched leiberman say "aye" and i sent a check to ned lamont. i need to be careful about the rage i feel, because i will still need to be able to communicate with both senators until we can boot joementum out. there is still a lot of stuff that will be coming our way in the near future. i am in this for the long haul. I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK
pete | 01.30.06 - 3:10 pm | #

BALLOTING SECURITY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE BEFORE US.
ceci | 01.30.06 - 2:47 pm |

Hear hear! A non-partisan issue. Demand e-voting machines with a paper trail and random manual recounts!

NSA/FISA is also a non-partisan issue.
Protect the 4th Amendment!

Frame our demands as defense of American values: clean elections, and no President is above the law!

Blog swarms attack!
--
Cliff Varnell | 01.30.06 - 3:11 pm | #

Leslie in Ca

Yes Cindy did and that is where I will put my money. I know some are distressed that if we take the money away why will they listen to us, if they are true democrats then they will listen, if they don't then they can have all the republican money that they think their soul is worth

Ag Penn
agpennington | 01.30.06 - 3:11 pm | #

Now, on to the next battle.

That is how it will be from here on out.

There are many things to choose, but I think we should get behind the call for a Special Prosecutor for all things Abramoff.
dengre | 01.30.06 - 3:12 pm | #

Dave Latchaw-
Holy fuck is right!
hopeful in NM | 01.30.06 - 3:12 pm | #

We're not going to win the next battle if we treat potential allies like this:

I just called for the resignation of Senator Diane Fienstien. I believe that she only voted for a filibuster after Cindy Sheehan announced that she would run and she knew that they didnt' thave the votes. She deserves to go.

I'm just saying. You know, if you say that you're never going to vote for someone again or donate, why are they going to listen to you next time. Do you people communicate with people in the real world? Is this how you treat someone who's help you will need in the future? No wonder progressives lose.

What this cloture vote showed is that Dems trust moderate voters much more than they trust you. Think about that as you're sending you angry phone calls to hapless staffers (whom you are turning off from the process). Think about your angry calls impact the next time you may need their help.
gq | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:13 pm | #

Lost an INNING? HAHAHAH! Game, Set, and MATCH is more like it. Now you're gonna see what THE MAN is capable of... AND YOUR NOT GONNA LIKE IT! HAHAHAH! Run for your lives you friggin' commie dupes!
YuXu |

Read this everyone. Internalize it. This is the opponent. Everytime you think you're tired, or safe, and feel the urge to let up, remember this twit, and why the stakes are so high.
Urban Pirate | 01.30.06 - 3:13 pm | #

YuXu: Now you're gonna see what THE MAN is capable of... AND YOUR NOT GONNA LIKE IT! HAHAHAH!

Should your words prove correct, I can assure you that you won't either. :D
StealthBadger | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:13 pm | #

twisted sister sucked... like biden's 10 min monologue on being 'puzzled'...

derp, derp, derp...

dems clearly lost it during the hearings... they shoulda tried letting the nominee say something stupid... never really gave him a chance though, did ya BIDEN?
vinny | 01.30.06 - 3:14 pm | #

susan, thanks for the Sheehan article. Wouldn't it just rock if she actually won?
Leslie in CA | 01.30.06 - 3:14 pm | #

Pete,

I don't know why you can't do both, they do and maybe 3. Do what needs to be done learn to be political. It seems to work.

Ag Penn
agpennington | 01.30.06 - 3:15 pm | #

A third party is doomed to usher in even MORE fascism.

Let me say it again: Go join PDA or DFA right NOW! They are all geared up to grab the reins of the party and steer all our progressive energy and enthusiasm into REAL party reform.

And I've seen them have success here in Arizona, twice. They got state party officials to vote for Dean as party chair, when no one thought it possible.

Last November they got their own candidates on Tucson city council, tipping the balance of power there to the progressives.

Once upon a time there was no DLC -- then they worked like crazy to take control of the party, and were successful.

There is NO REASON whatsoever that we cannot do the same. Unless you throw up your hands and fracture the vote on the left by going on the fools' errand of a third party. Then you can help fascism get more entrenched.

Get out in the trenches and reform the Democratic Party! It's our party, too -- and we have the energy and the patriotism and the fire in the belly. Now, go!!!

Here you are:

Progressive Democrats of America:

http://pdamerica.org

Democracy for America:

http://www.democracyforamerica.com

Both organizations have branches in all 50 states, and both organizations support each other in tandem.

Now, get going! What's stopping you? We have monthly meetings here in Arizona, very lively, very motivated. Everyone's participation is honored. So, what's stopping YOU?
Mrs. K8 | 01.30.06 - 3:16 pm | #

Unbelievable, Jane. I posted my own diary on Daily Kos with a rather nitpicky perspective on what really pissed me off as I watched the floor of the Senate...

Link here

It's one thing to lose - it's another thing to roll over - but do they have to be so Goddamned happy about it??
Rena | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:17 pm | #

Certainly balloting securing is the most important issue before us - but we will never win that battle or any other until the corporate media are put on notice that they WILL BE HELD TO the straight and narrow - all GOP spin all the time IS OVER. To me that means:

Every liberal representative (whether it's a congressional or an "operative" or whatever) who gives interviews to the print press or on TV must challenge the interviewer. When the MSM recite GOP talking points they must be called on it - EVERY SINGLE TIME.

A few months ago Barbara Boxer was being interviewed on CNN by Kyra Phillips who just rattled off the WH spiel in Boxer's face - Barbara said something like, "If you're going to sit there and keep defending the White House, maybe you should just go on their payroll" - Phillips was totally thrown off her game and it became quite a show watching her try to defend herself and "assure the viewers" that she was not on the WH payroll - the next day, she had to defend herself again and reiterate that nobody at CNN was on the WH payroll. Of course, Barb said it sweet as could be and the whole episode was an epiphany for me - we can force them to defend themselves against being GOP operatives.

ALL dems should be straightening out the pundits all the time. Once the GOP media all know that we're not going to take their rightwing slant and their antagonism to democrats any longer, we have a chance of getting some of our points across to the American people.

I think we need to contact our congressionals and Howard Dean and let them know that the MSM is to be continually challenged - of course, by us (netroots rapid responders) - but also by the dems who have their faces all over TV and their words all over the print media (and no statements out of school to the reporters!).

I hate to sound like a repug, but we need party discipline - not in the goosestep sense the repugs do, but in not taking the crap anymore - EVERYBODY STANDS UP from now on - or they're gone!

End of rant - this has been a hard day!
everhopeful | 01.30.06 - 3:17 pm | #

Um... pray tell what makes you think any bejeebers was scared out of anyone. They know that they don't have to listen to the base because someone will always come around to clean up their sick and beg for more money to be thrown after bad.

No... this was NOT A GAME... does the fucking Constitution mean anything to you.

Frankly even though it was a farce I am glad that Kerry and Kennedy pulled the cover off of Reid's plan of lowering expectations... because now with the blinders off people can see Harry Reid for the worthless backtabbing punk he is and all those pushing to elect more shitty Dems can go to hell along with him.
Lange | 01.30.06 - 3:17 pm | #

sonofslothrop - i'm going to Drinking Liberally in Cambridge tomorrow = 315 Mass Ave.
Kathryn in MA | 01.30.06 - 3:17 pm | #

there is not one word today on the front page of TPM about the vote.

Not. One. Word.
zennurse | 01.30.06 - 3:18 pm | #

i just called cantwells office and slammed them, reminded them what happened to gregoire when she ignore the progressives. told her this wasn't indiana, the democrats in this state are progressive . the receptionist said she was going to vote no on the confirmation and i said, so what? not even 1/2 the senate had even had a chance to debate, her no vote is meaningless. first she has the audacity to tell us she has 'no regrets' on her war vote and now this. i'm supporting wilson. why have a dem if they vote like republicans.
annie | 01.30.06 - 3:18 pm | #

The opposite of obstructionism is appeasement.

Three problems:

1. We in West Blogostan didn't start the firestorm soon enough. I think we naively thought our senators recognized the gravity of the situation. Now we know better.

2. Our senators let us down. I appreciate the last minute support for the filibuster by Kerry, Kennedy, Reid, et. al. but, really, it shouldn't have been last minute. And the judiciary committee was just dreadful.

3. We were stabbed in the back by a group of quislings. Well, now we know who the traitors are.

If the Dems take back one or both houses of congress in the fall, then I can hold my nose and not take action against the likes of Landrieu, Salazar, et. al. (but not Leiberman; he's betrayed us too often already; Lambert is getting money from me).

But, if the Dems fail to take back at least one chamber of congress, then I think it is time to rebuild from the ground up. Having 43 senators is no different than having 1 if they no power and refuse to filibuster.

At that point, it will be time to dissolve the DLC and work against any and all of backstabbers, even if it means our count in congress goes down. Sometimes you have to take steps backwards before you can go forwards.
shargash | 01.30.06 - 3:19 pm | #

My thoughts on today's cloture vote, written in a sticky, stringy, massive ejaculation of fury and grief. It ain't Shakespeare, but it's cathartic. Somewhat.
jurassicpork | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:19 pm | #

presente
feral1 | 01.30.06 - 3:21 pm | #

AOL/abc News online poll: Monday 5:10 p.m. CT

How would you grade Bush's overall performance?
F 48%
A 16%
D 15%
B 15%
C 6%

12,775 total votes

Is the state of the union better or worse since Bush has taken office?

Worse 66%
Better 27%
The same 7%

Total votes 12,324

Go vote: http://www.aol.com/
neurophius | 01.30.06 - 3:22 pm | #

Redd and Jane, you have given a lot of us (and I wonder how many of us are old Dean -- DFA-ers) hope that we can mobilize and at least feel that we can do something collectively and that we are not alone in our dispair at this government.

That said, can we get a list of ALL the votes so we can write thank you notes to those who stood up? I'd also like to know who folded -- not that I will do anything this time, but we have a long memory.

Don't bother being nice about Lieberman -- he is a total sellout.

Ned Lamont (http://www.nedlamont.com) is our guy -- visit his site and tell him to run. Choose an 06XXX zip.
kirby | 01.30.06 - 3:23 pm | #

there is not one word today on the front page of TPM about the vote.

They ALL fucking knew that the Dems were going to cave... all the major blogs were put on detail of managing expectations and keeping them low ... which is why they ALL took offense when Kerry did not "play along".

They all puposely played down winning or even fucking fighting... just a few mentions here and there for appearence sake.

Funny how they are not missing a beat of STILL BACKING DEAD BEAT DEMS... the fucking body is still warm and Kos is hacking for Casey and Ford who would have sold out today if they had the chance.

People really need to wake the fuck up...
Lange | 01.30.06 - 3:25 pm | #

1st inning? More like the first pitch to the first batter...this is going to be a long game.

But we're definitely with you, Redd and Jane. Taking back a country is hard work (to coin a phrase). But what choice do we have?
mc | 01.30.06 - 3:25 pm | #

I have no intentions of licking my wounds or letting up over the Alito disappointment. There is no defeat and no shame in doing what's right and telling the truth. We did the right thing, and we know it. The fight continues. 2006 is where it's at. May I gently suggest we flood our local Democratic organizations with insistence we be allowed to volunteer and participate. This win for the Republicans, and loss for the American people just makes me tougher, and encourages me to fight all that much more. So...any of you nasty Republicans reading this blog, and I know you do, take no comfort. I'll never give up! Never.
Oklahoma Kiddo | 01.30.06 - 3:26 pm | #

Hell yeah! Thanks for articulating my feelings on this, Redd.

I'm in for the duration.
Doug Hoffman | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:27 pm | #

susan, thanks for the Sheehan article. Wouldn't it just rock if she actually won?
Leslie in CA

Leslie,

Yes, however, unseating the entrenched Feinstein will take a lot of work.

While you're dreaming of dumping DiFi, I am sitting here imagining a Salazarless Senate.

I know the base of the party doesn't like him, but no talk of a primary challenge yet....

He has to go.
susan | 01.30.06 - 3:27 pm | #

What a lucky administration! Its like the robber who never got caught so he did it one last time and finally got sent to jail. Hopefully, one by one, they all will do time. Of course, it could never be any worse for them in jail than the years we had to put up with their buying poeple off.
Lot of deep pockets filled with cash in DC tonight.

This administration was able to enact laws under cover of wartime, got to bug phones so Senators who cheat on their wives would vote the right way......get rid of patriotic employees using the ole Unpatriotic trick..... snitch on a new mother of twins and the undercover operation she was involved in which was tracking WMD's.......read any mail they want due to Anthrax.....waited until Ashcroft was under sodium lite in the hospital before requesting a signature to try to cover their butts.......not to mention the war and the deficit and stealing elections rather than earning respect and trust and what about those sick birds coming soon. And clearly, what's with Osama? And Katrina?

Wonder what Laura will wear tomorrow night and if Mrs. Alito tears will indeed be real?

In the meantime, I'll be calling them all again tomorrow to express my thanks is they Nayed, or, to offer my condolences early on their next election if they Ayed.

The good thing tonight is at least we know one thing fior sure, before the 2006 elections, who our senators are.

Also, is it me or do American Senators remind anyone else of little faberge egg-like pawns yhat glide around on their little glass chessboards, voting up or down, at feeding time?
ccmask | 01.30.06 - 3:29 pm | #

Is confronting evil always successful? Can we always rely on leaders to lead? Can you look yourself in the mirror if you give up?

I didn't think so.

Everything we do is futile, but we must do it anyway.
- Gandhi (1869-1948)
pheidole | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:29 pm | #

I, for today at least, am really angry at the dem leadership and absolutely discouraged, I can hear the republicans laughing all the way to the bank.

What good is Reid's little 'one day stands' against Bush by his stunt in the Senate, when he cannot lead these dem cats. To him, being pro-life, he doesn't see much problem with Alito.

Let's face it, all dems voted for cloture because they are scared of the big bad republicans. And I am totally demoralized, at least for a while.

And NARAL is becoming another AARP. I swear these people must have been taken over by the same corporate wealings that the media is infected with.

Have said before, America is just going to have to hit the skids before it wakes from this abusive relationship with the republicans. "please don't hit me" is the mantra of the democrats.
GrandmaJ | 01.30.06 - 3:31 pm | #

gq

I have alway been nice to the people who answer the phone to the offices I called, I was nice when I called for Fienstien's resignation and I know she is up for relection this year. I am a working stiff and I am kind to people on the other end, also working stiffs. Diane Feinstien has not done anything for Ca in years and her is a woman who personnally knows of women who had back alley, illegal, life threatening abortions and she still had to be hackled into voting for a no vote on alito and then a yes on a fillibuster and only because she was threatened by Cindy Sheehan. How is she going to help us. I would love to know.

ag penn
agpennington | 01.30.06 - 3:31 pm | #

Quick question, but first some background-

I've been visiting FDL religiously for the past 6 months, mostly as a lurker. I'm definatly a progressive, but most definatly not a Democrat. I've been a registered independent ever since I've been eligible to vote(1990). I'm with the Dems on the issues 'on paper' so to speak, but they have proven time and time again that they don't have the courage or stamina to put up a fight when it counts.

Now for the question -

I am still willing and able to fight for the causes I believe in, but the Democratic Party is not one of them. At this point, it can't fall faster or harder enough. Is this a good forum for me? I don't want to be rude or intrude, but I can hardy see the point of trying to keep alive a entity that wants to be like the enemy anyway.
Fitz You! | 01.30.06 - 3:31 pm | #

I would like to encourage people to make sure they don't give up after today.

Some ideas to do:

Create a local newspaper.

Talk on local radio or tv stations. (Local access tv...)

Run for office.
Silence is Complicity | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:33 pm | #

after Alito is confirmed, what is stopping the Justice Dept from just having the "new and improved" SCOTUS from ruling that , "Yes Virginia, George Bush CAN do everything he wants." ?

Folks, if you let the Supreme Court decide that something is constitutional (when it isn't), you have lost.

Congress can "decide" that the actions of the President are unconstitutional. That is, they can ask questions, probe, maybe get documents released that cause a firestorm. Nobody knows until they try.

I don't see this Congress adopting new legislation against this President, but the NSA spying campaign is so, so important.

If we get it to blow up in the Administration's face -- meaning, articles on the evening television news, tough questioning by some Senators, red state gun-owning groups getting worried about where this President is going with unlimited power, and so on -- then that blowup can translate into dissatisfaction in November.

In other words, we need to concentrate on moving that pencil on the table another 1/8 of an inch. Eventually, we might just start it rolling, and then people will start listening.

And listening is the path to November.
.
Prof | 01.30.06 - 3:34 pm | #

I'm in.

And I'd like to express my profound gratitude to those who led the charge on this one.
punaise | 01.30.06 - 3:34 pm | #

Off topic, but important: A teenage girl died of bird flu in Iraq.
http://effectmeasure.blogspot.co...ng- obvious.html

and http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11097361/
Margot | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:34 pm | #

Fitz You --

Can you please scroll back up and read my last post at 3:16pm?

Have you joined PDA?
Have you joined DFA?
Do you attend regular meetings?

If not, why not?
Mrs. K8 | 01.30.06 - 3:34 pm | #

Stephen Parrish, CPA | 01.30.06 - 3:05 pm
Thanks very much for your response to my question and more generally for the high quality of all your comments.
John Casper | 01.30.06 - 3:36 pm | #

We can take back the Democratic Party and make it our vehicle from progressive ideas.

If the neocons could hijack the GOP and hollow out every rational notion of the concept of "conservative," then we can certainly use our smarts to reclaim the Democratic Party.

We have just BEGUN to fight.

Who in hell thought this was going to be easy?
Mrs. K8 | 01.30.06 - 3:37 pm | #

Paper Newspapers are so 20th century.......
ccmask | 01.30.06 - 3:39 pm | #

GrandmaJ --

OK, let me ask you, too. Are you a member of PDA or DFA? Or both?

If not, why not? What's stopping you from working hard to reform the party?

Do I have to repeat how we've ALREADY had successes here in Arizona in only 18 months that PDA started a branch here?
Mrs. K8 | 01.30.06 - 3:39 pm | #

Lost an INNING? HAHAHAH! Game, Set, and MATCH is more like it. Now you're gonna see what THE MAN is capable of... AND YOUR NOT GONNA LIKE IT! HAHAHAH! Run for your lives you friggin' commie dupes!
YuXu | 01.30.06 - 3:05 pm | #


Not to feed the trolls, but don't kid yourself. If it comes down to a fight, we're not afraid of you, YOU'RE afraid of US. We've got you and you're kind's number. The crybabies and the bedwetters. Look how loud the conservative bloggers squealed when they were called on it. Even in you're post it shows. Not what "I'm gonna do" but what "THE MAN" is going to do. Go ahead, shout insults while you hide behind your daddy's legs, sticking your tongue out little baby, but if you and your ilk throw out the rule of law in this country, I can GUARANTEE you will like it no more than we will.
sebastian trump | 01.30.06 - 3:40 pm | #

oops, on my post at 3:37 that should be "vehicle FOR progressive ideas."

Sorry. My typing gets bad when I get excited or agitated....
Mrs. K8 | 01.30.06 - 3:41 pm | #

A Democratic majority, with a Democratic Chair of the Judiciary delivered us Clarence Thomas. 11 crossed the aisle, the vote 52-48. .

Fitz You - I agree. It is hard to believe in the dem party when it just rolls over like this. No one complained when the rightwing got all hot and bothered about Meiers.

And we have our heads in the sand if we think we are going to take over the House. Our side just does not know how to fight.

But opting for a third party will only give the republicans more votes. And they will win elections by 35%.

I also believe, now, that Fitzgerald has let us, and America, down. The abramoff case has a new prosecutor who will make deals with everyone for no time served, and it will go on and on until it is old news.

The spying scandal? Going nowhere. the hearings will be shut down. See how hard the dem leaders fight for us? Does anyone here think Rockefellar cares one twit about this? Him with the letter in a safe deposit box. Nosireee.
GrandmaJ | 01.30.06 - 3:43 pm | #

I'm in.

Gettint my torch refreshed.
Zappatero | 01.30.06 - 3:45 pm | #

How would you grade Bush's overall performance?
F 46%
A 16%
B 16%
D 15%
C 6%
Total Votes: 59,184
zennurse | 01.30.06 - 3:47 pm | #

Oh for hell's sakes -- the Abramoff case does not have a new prosecutor. They lost one person on a TEAM of prosecutors for a judgeship elevation. Please, do not wallow in defeatist stuff that isn't even true.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to be crabby or anything -- but really, do you think we'd even be a nation if Washington looked around at Valley Forge and said, "Well, damn, some of these guys have less than stellar shoes. Let's just call it a day."
ReddHedd | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:48 pm | #

Fitz You! | 01.30.06 - 3:31 pm
Is this a good forum for me?

One person, one opinion- A good while back I said something to the effect that what I had to say might be deeply unpopular, but that I was tired of being taken advantage as a knee-jerk Dem voter, and that I would vote for Dems only under certain defined circumstances, and I now considered myself an "independent" with a small "I" because I don't agree with their women's rights stances. No one flamed me. FDL takes up many important issues that cross the D/ I divide at least. I generally don't get into arguing with people, bec. that's my style. Mostly I try to provide info and links that will be helpful. FDL is a great "community" not just a forum. Stick around!
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Valley Girl | 01.30.06 - 3:48 pm | #

We have to take over the party. And we can do it! We are the FUTURE of the party if we keep fighting.

We even have handy vehicles for that reform. PDA. DFA.

I can't abide anyone throwing in the towel. This is what should make us all fight HARDER, to take over each state party chapter, and from there we control the national platform and future candidates.

Think of what abolitionists faced during slavery. Think of what suffragettes faced to get the vote -- jail, public mockery, force-feeding during fasts. Think of civil rights workers during Jim Crow, many of whom GAVE THEIR LIVES.

Please don't let me hear any defeatism.
Mrs. K8 | 01.30.06 - 3:49 pm | #

Mrs. K8 - I have been a member of DFA since Dean's name came onto the radar. I was on the DFA blog when there were 40 comments per thread. And I whooped and hollered for the bats with as much money as I can give on a fixed income disability check.

Our local DFA group still meets and a member, and good friend, ran in a special election even though we are in the reddest of the red parts of blue Minnesota.

We are attempting to take county seat positions and gain more seats on the school boards to stop some of the voucher consequences to hit our schools.

but for national dems? I see little hope. 2006? We are dreaming. but I will get out and vote, I will take my local 'ladies' (6 elderly women who are my neighbors) to the caucuses and to vote.

With NARAL not even caring enough to make this an issue, with others just not caring about thier dem base, why should I urge them to listen to us. No, as Dean says, I will work at a local level.
GrandmaJ | 01.30.06 - 3:50 pm | #

Fitz You!,

You are most definitely welcome here, at least as far as I'm concerned.

My question to you is why you are an Independent? All being an Independent does is shut you out of the primary process (at least in most states). Being registered for one party or the other has no down sides.

IMO, the state we're in today is largely due to the Independents. They abandoned the main parties leading to ever-more extreme candidates. This in turn drove more people into Ind. If you don't participate in candidate selection, you aren't fully participating in democracy. You're also stuck with what you get.
shargash | 01.30.06 - 3:51 pm | #

Redd --

Amen, Redd, amen! I'm with you. I'm just now getting my pitchfork retooled.

Aux barricades!
Mrs. K8 | 01.30.06 - 3:51 pm | #

Oh, you so-called "pro-choice" Republican voters. You were so worried about your kids being killed by terrorists that you forgot to worry about your daughters bleeding out in emergency rooms. God help those poor girls, because there are clearly a lot of "pro-choice" Senators who sure as hell won't.

We can't give up, of course. And I won't, but tonight hope is very hard to find. Thanks for trying, everybody, and get ready for the next battle.
bella | 01.30.06 - 3:52 pm | #

Reddhead - you are right. Are you saying that the 'prosecutor' that left (or more precisely given a brand new spanking judgeship) was not the lead prosecutor? Just a member of the team?

Obviously I need a break. And will take same. Thanks.
GrandmaJ | 01.30.06 - 3:53 pm | #

shargash --

I agree. If the DLC, with their piss-poor ideas of triangulation nonsense, could take control of the party, then WE, with truth and justice for all citizens and historical inevitability on our side can CERTAINLY take over the party.

But whiners can't. Drop-outs can't.
Mrs. K8 | 01.30.06 - 3:53 pm | #

One of the most important actions of both PDA and DFA is candidate recruitment.

They field progressive candidates in every single state. Let's get to work!
Mrs. K8 | 01.30.06 - 3:55 pm | #

Oh, for those who feel burned out this evening:

That's OK! I understand! That's why I'll be watching old B&W 1930's Robert Montgomery movies on TCM tonight.

To recharge the batteries. Do whatever it takes to recharge. Then roll up your sleeves again, and back to work.

Whatever it takes.
Mrs. K8 | 01.30.06 - 3:57 pm | #

Would someone kindly post a "definitive" list of those who voted against cloture? I wasn't able to watch the vote. I'm wanting to get the "carrot" part out of the way first- emailing a thank you to those Senators (with a few exceptions, like Obama and Reid). Then, tomorrow a different set of emails will go out to those who for cloture, but against Alito. Thx, VG
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Valley Girl | 01.30.06 - 4:01 pm | #

thanks to Al Gore's Marvelous Invention, I will be able to watch tonight "Der Untergang" (The Downfall) about Hitlers last days. We win them bigtime now and then!
Wilson46201 | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 4:05 pm | #

Please let's NOT get into castigating and insulting people who voted with us! To those who keep vilifying Dems who voted against cloture: Whose side are you on anyway, you nitwits!?

Let's make it simple: when they vote our way we praise them; we only insult them when they vote against us. This is called "acting in your own best interest". K?
from Papa, not Kathi
Kathi | 01.30.06 - 4:06 pm | #

I am willing to fight in the trenches. Count me in.
Dead Last | 01.30.06 - 4:07 pm | #

*gives YuXu a cracker... holding it with a pair of tongs...*

Er, nice birdie. Heh.
StealthBadger | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 4:08 pm | #

gq wrote:

"You know, if you say that you're never going to vote for someone again or donate, why are they going to listen to you next time. Do you people communicate with people in the real world? Is this how you treat someone who's help you will need in the future? No wonder progressives lose."

Go back and read the speech from Henry V.

Now . . . do things look different? You are locating in fear, and saying we should do likewise. You've got it backwards. It's not how they can help us; it's that we have the power to hold them accountable to us, and without our support, they get retired.

You've got the fear thing backwards. As long as we buy into that (they have the power; we'd better behave ourselves), yes, we lose. When we remember who's serving whom, we take our power back. That's the "real world." Your fear-mongering is not realism; it's trance. It's illusion.

The reality is, if I were a senator voting against cloture today, I would be the one afraid, as I watch the money coming in drop off, find potential campaign volunteers telling me 'no' when I try to rev up the campaign machine, encounter vocal protests at my rallies and outside fundraising dinners, and find I'm facing a strong primary opponent who's not afraid to stand up for our American Constitutional equivalent of "Harry, England and Saint George."
oregondave | 01.30.06 - 4:12 pm | #

punaise | 01.30.06 - 3:34 pm | I second your praise for the excellent work done by FDL commentors/activists.

What started me looking at NARAL and PFAW web sites was that I could not believe the energy that Prof, Siun, and many others, expended to just get good contact lists together. Their work was truly inspirational and an excellent investment in the future.

The last few weeks have been about testing the strength of what we have here in our little corner of cyberspace. IMO, what we’ve learned is that we are capable of winning some skirmishes, but not yet ready for a full on battle. That time will come…but only if we keep working toward it.
RBG | 01.30.06 - 4:19 pm | #

Although I've never been a Democrat - Green for 16 years - I agree with Mrs. K8 that you dems need to rebuild, not start another party. The first thing you need to do is reach out to people similar to me who left the Dems back when they controlled the government and did little in respect to growing concerns about global warming and wasteful fuel consumption. We'd come back if we a) felt dems had workable environmental plans on the strategic level, and b) were warmly welcomed instead of treated like traitors over false issues like Florida 2000.

If dems played this right, it would attract a lot of youth voters and scare away only people who aren't progressive anyway.
Edward Teller | 01.30.06 - 4:21 pm | #

We need some new adventure movies where the Rambo-type hero saves us from the dark ages that have been thrust upon us by those who have misused power.

Those mis-using power need to become the enemies that we most fear. Those saving us from this misuse must be the heroes.

I am embarrassed for us that I think this is the only way for the majority of people in this country to understand these concepts.
Pacifica | 01.30.06 - 4:26 pm | #

Keep focused on the big picture -- you've mobilized many thousands quckly . . . the Senate has been discredited.

It is time for the States to take action -- issue the proclomations calling for Bush' impeachment. It only takes one; and there's nothing the Congress can do to stop this . . .

The states have options

The 2006 election is actually about finding someone who will transition the White House. Know, there is a back-up plan. We heave prepared, in the event the Senate voted --as they did -- to do nothing. The Stats have the option to force action. Hare is what is happening:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/20...1/24/222211/ 259

The States have options. The Senate vote cannot stop the states from demanding action on impeachment:
http://constantpated.blogspot.co...peach- bush.html

Here is the information the Senate today refused to consider by voting to have "no debate" on these issues:
http://constantpated.blogspot.co...d-sword- to.html

Don't lose hope: There are plenty of other lawfull, peaceful options to protect this Constitution from this RNC-led rebellion.
Constant | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 4:26 pm | #

new thread
Wilson46201 | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 4:27 pm | #

Maybe we could send all the DINO's who voted yes a check.....for $1000.00 and then write a big "VOID" accross it and say that the check to the Senator who voted to fillibuster didn't have the void accross it. Just to give them a little jolt. Let the vichy dems get a bit nervous.
Maybe it would be better to send them a check for a penney and make them bother with it.
alice | 01.30.06 - 4:31 pm | #

Redd,

I am so with you!!

We may not have made it happen this time, but, for the first time, I'm feeling very optimistic about the power and potential of the netroots. Thanks, Redd, for your incredible contribution to this movement.
Kathy | 01.30.06 - 4:32 pm | #

This is my second post. I'm just as frustrated as everyone here, racking my brains for a way to make an impact. It seems clear that the dems who voted yes to cloture were more worried about their moderate voters than those of us to their left. So it seems to me that we have to pick our battles to make a point. Defeating Lieberman in November would be the kind of message we want to send. That we count. Not that we're angry or vengeful (although I'm not feeling a lot of love right now) but that we have a voice and a pocketbook and a volunteer work force and we will use them. Think about what we accomplished this past few weeks. Made the Washington Post retract a statement. They're taking us seriously. We can do a lot more of this. And I'll bet, though I have no real proof of this, that more than a few of our dems are feeling uncomfortable right now. That there might be a price tag attached to this dereliction of conscience. They've never had reason to think this before. They sold us down the river on Iraq, and no big deal.

If it's true that the Senate is like an Old Boys' Club, let's go after one of their old boys and take him down.

It doesn't have to be Lieberman. But we have a better chance of having an impact if we focus our efforts. Today, we made 11 senators change their votes. That's no small victory.

*If we don't care about our planet, our country, our community, who will?*
txdemfem | 01.30.06 - 4:47 pm | #

We're all in this together.
Nina | 01.30.06 - 4:59 pm | #

We've got to find 19 "real" Democrats to kick these Demlicans in the ass when they come up for re-election. If we don't, we will continue to be the whipped by these enablers.
Spike | 01.30.06 - 5:01 pm | #

Bush sucks so bad....he is a wimp who couldn't fight his way out of anything.....his daddy got him everything.....his daughter's look like tramps & cheap druggies

his daddy is a drug dealer.....i hope they all get injected with the cocaine and heroin they bring into this country to infect our citizens......

They killed the JFK....there is no statute of limitations on Murder bushco....you will be one of the ugliest stories in our history.....
Anonymous | 01.30.06 - 5:09 pm | #

I'm in. My email, phone, and fax are at the ready.
bekkieann | 01.30.06 - 5:16 pm | #

GrandmaJ
I shut down the computer and walked away to go watch KO but I could not get your apparent dispair out of my mind.
We have just begun this fight and today we found out what Senators we can count on here. We need to build on that support. By virtue of your title "grandma" we have probably seen a lot of the same things in our lifetime. Speaking for myself only, I was a bystander to Watergate, Iran-Contra, but no more! This community has given us a voice, a chance to do something about what is happening to our nation and as Redd said, we have only begun to fight. Please stay, and continue with your fine input. You helped me get started here along with siun, punaise, John Casper when I had questions. This community is awesome. I see new names every day in the comments. It is growing, the groundswell will continue, and We the people will win this thing. Okay, I'm off my soapbox now. GrandmaJ, this is my way of saying "thank you" to you and everyone here at FDL who are so willing to fight for what we believe is right.
Apple Canyon 2 | 01.30.06 - 5:18 pm | #

Well, that's just ducky. Y'all go fight. I doubt I'll ever vote again unless a real opposition party surfaces. Sure do need one.
John from Taos | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 5:25 pm | #

I'm in
Brian Seabolt, anonymous nomor | 01.30.06 - 5:25 pm | #

For Californians--

DiFi did have to be pushed, but in the end she did stand up for her State. In her case, because she is a cautious person, it perhaps did take some courage to stand up and be counted. I see no reason to lump her with the DINOs. Instead, let's give her a pat on the back.

And though her present stand on the war is not perfect, it is far closer to the Murtha plan than it is to Bush.

OT--over here in Japan, I can only get my cartoons on the net. Sunday's Doonesbury is missing from Yahoo this week (can you say, "censorship," boys and girls? I knew you could), but I did find it. For those of you whose local paper didn't print it, have a good look:

Doonesbury, January 29, 2006

Expect more censorship in the future.
notjonathon | 01.30.06 - 5:26 pm | #

How would you grade Bush's overall performance?
F 45%
A 17%
B 17%
D 15%
C 6%
Total Votes: 231,227

Is the state of the union better or worse since Bush has taken office?
Worse 63%
Better 29%
The same 8%
Total Votes: 229,894
dgf | 01.30.06 - 6:03 pm | #

GAH!!! dgf, you almost gave me apoplexy!!! I didn't realize that the table was sorted by the second column at first, and almost spewed coffee on my monitor!!!!!!!!!!!
StealthBadger | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 6:23 pm | #

and they should be scared! all this with no prompting whatsoever from the so-called liberal media. we went against everyone based on what we know is right.
pny | 01.30.06 - 6:28 pm | #

It's somewhat heartening to see everyone fired up but I think the lesson to be taken from today's defeat is that faxes and phone calls don't mean squat.

It's all invisible to the politicians. They respond to money and images.

Instead of every one spending their money to go to the KOS convention, it would be much more effective to have 20,000 out -of-staters show up in Hartford for a dump Leiberman rally with one of the publishers clearinghouse checks for his opponent.

It seems people would rather rant to the converted and be indigant about being ignored than take to the streets and take back their country.
rcman | 01.30.06 - 6:32 pm | #

Winning would've been nice today, but it was quite a feat to get so far.

It was kinda like firing up an old jalopy that hadn't run in 5 years, jumpstarting it and backfiring off down the street for a couple days. The neglected old thing was destined to break down, but now we know what a little driving feels like, and we're going to get A LOT better at it.
MarcLord | 01.30.06 - 6:37 pm | #

As someone said elsewhere - Now the FISA hearings...

If we lose THAT one... well... you have to wonder if we HAVE any representation.
M. Douglas Wray | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 8:15 pm | #

Re the Glen questions...why not email a copy of them directly to the Judiciary Committee and see what happens. Tell them we will be watching and expect them to react...

Second thing...why not everyone tell the democratic sites that no one will make any donations until the REAL Democrats stand up...and we know who they are!! They will scare the bunch of them...maybe even send an email to Howard Dean and tell him the same...

Moesie
Moesie | 01.30.06 - 9:25 pm | #

i'm sorry, but:

"That doesn't mean you stop playing, it just means you take a deep breath and go back to the dugout for some fresh plays."???

what sport are we talkin' here... ?

love yer work otherwise... ;)

g.
g. | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 10:54 pm | #

*sigh*

Oh, well.

The thing is, if they really start messing with abortion rights and restrictions on domestic espionage and things like that, I think they'll finally start breaching the limits of patience in most Americans. I doubt they'll be able to get their way without massive consequence, even though the GOP is playing with a stacked deck.

We'll see where this goes.
J Crowley | Homepage | 01.31.06 - 8:26 am | #

I agree with Franco and many others. The fake Democrats have to go. Those 19 senators who voted with the GOP for cloture must be replaced in primaries by real Democrats, not the spineless sycophants we have witnessed in this filibuster fight. Count me in, too!
Dede Snyder | 01.31.06 - 11:10 am | #