Banjo Joe just announced he is going to be doing a story on rumors in Washington that Republicans are getting ready to dump VP Richard Bruce Cheney.*
*Richard Bruce Cheney shot a 78-year-old man in the face and heart after drinking alcolol with his custom-made $23,000 Italian shotgun, accompanied by two younger women neither of whom were his wife. He then tried to cover it up through an orchestrated disinformation campaign that included outright lies made to mislead the public at large. Richard Bruce Cheney is the first sitting VP to shoot a man since Aaron Burr. Burr did not commit treason until after vacating office.
neurophius |
02.16.06 - 6:56 pm | #
.....'Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales signaled in an interview with The Washington Post yesterday that the administration will sharply limit the testimony of former attorney general John D. Ashcroft and former deputy attorney general James B. Comey, both of whom have been asked to appear before the Senate Judiciary Committee regarding the program.'
[snip]
"You have to wonder what could Messrs. Comey and Ashcroft add to the discussion," Gonzales added.'
Well yes, I do wonder what they could add, and I want to hear them.
Margot |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 6:56 pm | #
Gonzales knows precisely what they could add to the discussion which is precisely what he will limit them from speaking about!
Wilson46201 |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 6:58 pm | #
OMG
*gasp*
EPU'D! Someone give me thread!
For hugh or other docs:
Is it a significant clinical signal that he is walking?
I would guess that has no bearing on what risk he has from the various pellets still inside his body.
By the way, the doctors have refused to say what kind of metal is in his body.
Conceivably this is because Cheney used lead shot, which is illegal (not sure about that).
On the other hand, it could be that the type of metal makes a difference in prognosis. Any thoughts? Would some metals be more irritating than others when rubbing against the heart? I would assume so.
marky |
02.16.06 - 6:58 pm | #
Margot -- good link. I'll do something in a bit.
jane hamsher |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:00 pm | #
yo,
i just sent Jane an e-mail about the GPS coordinates included in the Sheriffs report. You can pop those into Google Earth and depending on the accuracy one can measure the distance from the road to where the "incident took place. I come up with over 500FT. Cheney also mentions that Whittington was at a lower elevation than he thus the shot going into his face and chest. I measured out 100 FT from the Sheriffs GPS marking and if the elevation is correct it doesn't deviate more than 1 ft. In other words its pretty flat ground.
tbizzle |
02.16.06 - 7:01 pm | #
The story about the boozed up Vice President shooting an old man in the face and then lying about it and blaming the victim is getting a bit tiresome. Maybe this will take the edge off. Pass it around.
Don’t underestimate the power of the political message that the Cheney shooting conveys.
I’m still rooting for publication of a book of collected poems culled from the witty and brilliant pieces contributed in last night’s post, as an effective way of pushing forward this message. I suggested there the title:
“Shotgun Cheney: A Metaphor of the Bush Administration “
And I guarantee that it would become a bestseller.
the green lantern |
02.16.06 - 7:03 pm | #
I wonder if another reason they delayed reporting was to go through the pioneer rolodex for a kool-aid friendly Doctor in the corpus-christi area?
Jonathan Chase |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:04 pm | #
I would like to see a timeline for every comment made by every "official" response made in reference to this episode of "Veep Gone Wild". There is way too much ass covering been going on. And wayyyyy too much of it being contradictory.Stack it all up, and pick the contradictions out one by one. Then start hammering about cover up.You have to know the doctors are covering. The local sheriff is covering, I never did get an explanation of why the Border Control was at the gate. SS? No comment? WTF? And the missing white woman? The hired hands? The ambulance attendandts? Me thinks that everyone involved might be seeing a nice Christmas bonus at this point.
Bustednuckles |
02.16.06 - 7:06 pm | #
And how about this:
The Texas Parks & Wildlife Hunting Accident
report states it is unknown whether Cheney is
Hunter Education Certified however it asserts
that Whittington is NOT.
Who provided this info?
ceci |
02.16.06 - 7:06 pm | #
Was this hunt 4 couples? Men's skating is on.......
ccmask |
02.16.06 - 7:06 pm | #
Here's a prediction... this "blows" over in a week as the Administration is tight-lipped, and then the "stress" of the job forces Cheney to retire in the not-to-distant furture-- say by the summer/early fall. The establishment Repugnants are getting restless about 06 and definitely 08, and Cheney is increasingly seen as an anchor that needs to be cut loose... This way they can bring in the perceived "star" (read, annointed Pres candidate) to give the Graduate the bully pulpit for the Presnit run in 08... So maybe it wouldn't be so bad for a guy who can't shoot staight, but with a 15% approval to remain as VP....
tjschill |
02.16.06 - 7:10 pm | #
I am SO naive and sheltered.
I know some people who work in toxicology and have done expert tesimony for litigation. They find the stories hilarious. I said "Gosh, do you really think [Richard Bruce] Cheney* would ostentatiously take an drink afterward as an alibi?"
The response from one was "Do we think! Ha ha ha! That's the oldest trick in the world! Ha ha! Except for the one beer at lunch line. I bet he was pasted."
anon_1 |
02.16.06 - 7:11 pm | #
ceci,
"that Whittington is NOT."
That was on the Texas Game and Wildlife whatever you call it report. Sorry no link. Smoking Gun has it probably.
Cozumel |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:12 pm | #
Gnite folks.
Got up at 5:45 EST today to make a presentation and that's early for me.
Wish me luck at the courthouse tomorrow. Will report back ASAP.
Pachacutec |
02.16.06 - 7:13 pm | #
Jane typo "why my rader" = "why my radar"
-
Valley Girl |
02.16.06 - 7:14 pm | #
I wonder if another reason they delayed reporting was to go through the pioneer rolodex for a kool-aid friendly Doctor in the corpus-christi area?
That would explain why Whittington wasn't admitted into a hospital until 8:15, almost three hours after being shot in the face by Cheney. If it weren't for Cheney's personal MASH unit I wouldn't doubt Whittington would have been dead on the scene.
puppethead |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:15 pm | #
Here's the Local story on how Whittington wound up at the local hospital in Kingsville instead of the nearby (30 miles) Corpus Christi hospital.
It took 3 hours to get Whittington to the CHRISTUS Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi–Memorial. This hospital is the "is the lead emergency facility in the area."
Whittington arrived at the Kingsville hospital, the staff at Kingsville determined that Whittington needed "more advanced treatment" and was flown immediately to the nearby hospital in Corpus Christi.
The Secret Service notified HALO-Flight dispatch about 6 p.m., putting the air ambulance service on standby in case Whittington needed to be flown to Christus Spohn Hospital Memorial, the area's trauma center, said HALO-Flight executive director Randy Rowe. Minutes later, Christus Spohn Hospital Kleberg in Kingsville was notified that Whittington was en route.
Both Cheney's office and the Secret Service have said the decision to take Whittington to Kingsville first was made by medical personnel who travel with Cheney, who has a history of heart problems.
"I can't comment to why he wasn't flown," Zahren said. "The medical folks that were there would have weighed more into that than our people on the scene. Decisions were made on their advice at that point."
Whittington was taken by ambulance to the Kingsville hospital about 6:20 p.m., Zahren said.
"It was an ambulance on standby for the vice president's visit," Zahren said. "It had been dedicated and it was given up to treat the victim."
The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and 6:50 p.m., Christus Spohn spokeswoman Yvonne Wheeler said.
HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg medical personnel decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.
"Typically, why we get calls for transfers is for a higher level of care or a doctor preference," Rowe said.
The air ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital at 7:29 p.m. and landed at the Corpus Christi trauma center at 8:19 p.m., Rowe said. Whittington was awake and talking during the flight, he said. Corpus Christi Caller-Times
Duh, OK, I see what you're asking. No idea.
Cozumel |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:18 pm | #
Tiresome bangin on the VP's drunkshoot is in the eye of the beholder. And tiresome things may be useful.
Ridicule is a good political weapon, especially when the public can see that it is truly and richly deserved. So I hope FDL has harvested some really catchy poems that sound good when chanted by a large crowd.
Now we need one for God's Annointed Maximum Preznit. It almost seems as if He has been hiding too, since this broke. Is that true? Has He made any appearances, done anything public this week? He is responsible for the behavior of his administration. I think Bush should be held to same standard as Obama, and Bush should be asked to comment and evaluate his associates' behavior. Bush's response (or lack thereof) should be discussed publicly, and perhpas is a fit subject for rhymes and ditties as well.
Has Bush been out and about lately?
anon_1 |
02.16.06 - 7:18 pm | #
neurophius - love your Cheney statement, but do you think you could move "after drinking alcohol" either to the very beginning or else put it immediately after Richard Bruce Cheney.
The way it is phrased now it sounds like the Dick was using his custom made $23,000 Italian shotgun to actually drink the alcohol. Of course, I guess he could have been doing shots out of the barrel.... lol
OhioBlue |
02.16.06 - 7:19 pm | #
Skype could force end to wiretapping calls
Fast-growing Internet phone service uses encryption that blocks snooping
The Associated Press
Updated: 6:42 p.m. ET Feb. 16, 2006
NEW YORK - Even as the U.S. government is embroiled in a debate over the legality of wiretapping, the fastest-growing technology for Internet calls appears to have the potential to make eavesdropping a thing of the past.
Skype, the Internet calling service recently acquired by eBay Inc., provides free voice calls and instant messaging between users. Unlike other Internet voice services, Skype calls are encrypted — encoded using complex mathematical operations. That apparently makes them impossible to snoop on, though the company leaves the issue somewhat open to question.
Skype is certainly not the first application for encrypted communications on the Internet. Secure e-mail and instant messaging programs have been available for years at little or no cost.
Following was EPUed from previous thread. People were asking why Whitington wouldn't want to be recorded. If he was knocking back a few too, that would add to his caution in what he would want to say "on the record".
---re: Whitington recording-- I'm assuming that he didn't want to talk off the cuff- rather that he would want his statement in writing, and that, after having been checked over by his lawyers, so that he inadvertenly doesn't let Cheney off the hook.
-
Valley Girl | 02.16.06 - 7:03 pm
Valley Girl |
02.16.06 - 7:19 pm | #
And here I thought I'd probably missed that WaPo story when someone else posted it. I can't keep up.
By the way, how do I get Firefox not to keep filling in the "Homepage" blank?
Margot |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:21 pm | #
Skype could force end to wiretapping calls
How soon before Congress is putting Skype out of business?
watertiger |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:21 pm | #
In the Blumenthal piece it says:
Katharine Armstrong took up lobbying after her recent divorce. Her contracts include Parsons, a construction firm that has done work in Iraq, among others. Her business partner, Karen Johnson, a close friend of Rove's
Isn't Karen Johnson alleged to be Rove lady on the side?
Jonathan Chase |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:22 pm | #
"Here's the Local story on how Whittington wound up at the local hospital in Kingsville instead of the nearby (30 miles) Corpus Christi hospital."
OK. They took a longer route to an inferior hospital. But why??? I can't come up with a reasonable answer. Can somebody speculate?
sonate |
02.16.06 - 7:22 pm | #
OhioBlue and others,
I guess neurophius, cleter and I were jointly fascinated in the last thread by crafting a Richard Bruce Cheney.* citation apparatus which would always accompany his name forever more. Any suggestions for increased brevity and clarity would be welcome.
*Richard Bruce Cheney shot a 78-year-old man in the face and heart after drinking alcolol with his custom-made $23,000 Italian shotgun, accompanied by two younger women neither of whom were his wife. He then tried to cover it up through an orchestrated disinformation campaign that included outright lies made to mislead the public at large. Richard Bruce Cheney is the first sitting VP to shoot a man since Aaron Burr. Burr did not commit treason until after vacating office.
anon_1 |
02.16.06 - 7:24 pm | #
I don't get much American news here, but yesterday I did get a brief glimpse of Anderson Cooper's show on CNN. Interestingly, it began with, "The story of Vicew President Cheney's shooting of a felow hunter in the face" and then continued to a field reporter, who said, "Vice President Cheney, who shot 78 year-old lawyer Harry Whititngton in the face last Saturday. . ."
Straight out of Jon Stewart.
notjonathon |
02.16.06 - 7:25 pm | #
Did anyone watch Banjo Joe's piece on Cheney*? I had to bring the dogs in and missed it.
*Richard Bruce Cheney shot a 78-year-old man in the face and heart after drinking alcohol with his custom-made $23,000 Italian shotgun, accompanied by two younger women neither of whom were his wife. He then tried to cover it up through an orchestrated disinformation campaign that included outright lies made to mislead the public at large. Richard Bruce Cheney is the first sitting VP to shoot a man since Aaron Burr. Burr did not commit treason until after vacating office.
neurophius |
02.16.06 - 7:26 pm | #
I'm assuming that Ol Harry didn't want to be recorded for the same reason that the interview got cut off before he said anything of substance- he doesn't want to go on the record- and he probably won't.
He doesn't want to lie- and he doesn't want to give up any rights he or his family may have by agreeing to a story that leaves out the details that create Cheney's liability. He's bein foxy.
rwcole |
02.16.06 - 7:26 pm | #
You know why Harry is in ICU---if photos of his face got out, Cheney would be dead meat.
Anon_1 at 7:18---good point.
Do wingnuts ever tire of bringing up Chappaquiddick or the Clenis? No, and I am always annoyed by it. Moral: don't be afraid of being repetitive if you've got something good.
marky |
02.16.06 - 7:27 pm | #
How does Bush keep abstainin' if his partner's scotch drainin'?
SpringBored |
02.16.06 - 7:28 pm | #
sonate--I think all along that they were hopin to keep this thing Hush Hush.. At the smaller hospital there would be fewer prying eyes- and it's possible some of em knew a doc there who could be counted on. Once they went to the big hospital- the chances of keeping it covered up evaporated.
rwcole |
02.16.06 - 7:28 pm | #
Dick soaked, shoots.
Bush satisfied.
Colin left out.
Fitz You! |
02.16.06 - 7:28 pm | #
Seems to me there should be a report from the Kingsville hospital... it might be interesting and rather revealing...
OldCoastie |
02.16.06 - 7:29 pm | #
Remember how Rummy waxed poetic about digital cameras?
Time to get to business.
Or is Cheney using the Texas Guard to keep this guy out of the public eye.
SpringBored |
02.16.06 - 7:30 pm | #
In a police state, I would probably not be typing this. I'd be rotting somewhere.
Pachacutec | 02.16.06 - 5:54 pm | # pachacutec - that's why we like to keep everyone in 'sight.'
Kathryn in MA |
02.16.06 - 7:30 pm | #
Tangent alert: The absurdity of Scott McClellan's sudden refusal to comment further on the face shooting is put into perfect context when you consider the White House "policy" of not commenting on ongoing investigations — that is, ostensibly they now will not comment on closed investigations, either.
Is not Bush president? And did He not make some weird statement today that Richard Bruce Cheney* did the right thing, the strong thing, the good thing? And other than that, has Bush not been hiding this week?
I think Bush's statement and behavior is worthy of some poetic effort. I can't think of anything now, but we should have a poem on Bush's reaction to go with that for Richar Bruce Cheney*
Bush is clearly an enabler at this point. And if certain rumors turn out to be true, we may be talking soome kind of codependency.
did anyone else find Bush's statements today double extra super duper annoying?
OldCoastie |
02.16.06 - 7:32 pm | #
marky,
"Moral: don't be afraid of being repetitive if you've got something good."
Spot on! And as long as cable news shows circulation spike when the cover it, they'll stay on it. They made a killing (no pun intended) off Scott Peterson. Many of the same elements
Cozumel |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:33 pm | #
OhioBlue--OK, just read your comment, I will fix the footnote before using it again.
RE: Local Texas Sheriff--It is clear from his "report" that he is either incompetent or corrupt, if not both. Considering the political and economic clout that the Armstrongs (friends of presidents, VPs, Ambassadors, Karl Rove) presumably have in the area, corrupt seems the more likely explanation.
neurophius |
02.16.06 - 7:34 pm | #
a couple things
1. the not notifying the press is not the message - the obstruction of law enforcement, on the other hand IS VERY significant.
2. the delay in tellyin ANYONE might have been due to the uncertainty of Mr Whittington's fate. An immediate death would have been a different problem.
A live, forgiving vic is infinitly preferable to a corpse.
Of course whittington is not our of the woods yet, and I dare say his system has sustained considerable strain which cannot be a good thing at any age, much less the late 70s
All this comes at an actually opportune moment for the Republicans, who can now Throw Bigtime from the train, and set up a more desirable (and stable) succession for 08 (or sooner, if they lose the House in 06)
Mack |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:34 pm | #
Cozumel,
I have a copy of the report. I can only surmise Mrs. Armstrong, who is listed as the witness, is who provided this info. In as much as the report states it is unknown whether Cheney is Hunter Education Certified, I suspect the reason it says Mr. Whittington is NOT is because at the time they were in the "blame Whittington mode" and this would further discredit him.
ceci |
02.16.06 - 7:35 pm | #
He doesn't want to lie- and he doesn't want to give up any rights he or his family may have by agreeing to a story that leaves out the details that create Cheney's liability. He's bein foxy.
rwcole | 02.16.06 - 7:26 pm | #
Of course not...He's a frickin lawyer!
Mack |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:36 pm | #
Pach,
Good luck! Wish I could help out, but I work too far away from downtown, and I can't get out of work right now.
Redshift |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:36 pm | #
His blood alcohol is not zero. If it was, they would have been saying that from the get go. True they are devious bastards, but if Cheney was drinking, so was Whittington. Drunks never want to be the only one drinking.
steve expat |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:36 pm | #
Hunter ed. already a mute point. After 1971?
Bustednuckles |
02.16.06 - 7:36 pm | #
I'm sorry to be off topic, but I just discovered that Sen. Roberts is making a deal with the W.H. to change the FISA law!
WHAT are we going to do? We MUST organize and stop this from happening.
WHY are the Republicans playing pancys to Bush? WHY?
he could have been doing shots out of the barrel.... lol
OhioBlue | 02.16.06 - 7:19 pm | #
we can dream ;)
Mack |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:37 pm | #
I'm not so certain they WILL throw Bigtime from the train... he knows where all the bodies are buried. If he goes, it's because he wants to - nobody is gonna make him leave...
I don't think he has "party loyalty" - he's a guy who only works in his own self interest.
OldCoastie |
02.16.06 - 7:38 pm | #
Not to defend Whittington's doctors, but even if the victim had been drunk when admitted, it is likely a violation of confidentiality to reveal that without the patient's consent. Moreover, his state of sobriety doesn't really confirm or deny Cheney's. If Whittington had a high blood alcohol level on admission, it might suggest that Cheney had also been drinking, but that ain't proof.
The long delay between Cheney's being questioned by the cops seems much more telling. And, face it, would you want to be the cop who hauls in perhaps the orneriest powerful man in the country on a felony? Probably cost you your job, and maybe worse. Wouldn't be surprising if the cops suspected that Cheney might have been at least tipsy and quite deliberately waited till it was an easier interview, with little or no consequences to them.
I don't think this incident is the final nail in the political coffin for The Dick. It may, however, be among the last few that finally put him away. He still has to answer for Amb. and Ms. Wilson. If his heart holds out for another year, they will finally have their day in court.
David Derbes |
02.16.06 - 7:39 pm | #
Margot-> thanks for the WaPo link about Gonzales. Here's the quote that floored me: "You have to wonder what could Messrs. Comey and Ashcroft add to the discussion," Gonzales added."
IMO Gonzales is sending a very thinly veiled threat to Comey. Gonzales put Ashcroft's name in the quotation as cover. The WH knows Ashcroft will do everything he can to protect them. The fact that Gonzales would "carry his own water," may be very instructive. Gonzales either can't find someone to leak his threat or he can't find someone at the SAO (Senior Administrative Official) level to leak it. It's also possible that the WaPo is tightening up its "sourcing" wrt WH officials who want to anonymously bludgeon potential witnesses, such as Comey.
The fact that Gonzales is worried enough about Comey's testimony to send a message via the WaPo means Bush/Cheney/Rove know that Comey can hurt them. It also strongly suggests to me that they don't have anyone they trust, who can get a message to Comey. You don't use the Attorney General's name in a WaPo article to send a threat, if you know someone who can deliver your message personally. It maybe that they tried this, and Comey told the messenger politely to Dick Cheney him/herself. If that is the case, Gonzales' quote in the WaPo may actually be a second warning to Comey. Gonzales' quotation also reveals how afraid Bush/Cheney/Rove are of the questions the Democrats on the Judiciary Committee will ask. Bush/Cheney/Rove know they can't control the questions coming from the Dems, so their only pressure point is Comey.
John Casper |
02.16.06 - 7:41 pm | #
Has anyone heard whether Dr. Bill Frist has made a diagnosis of Whittington yet?
I think the Congress should have some type of oversight in this life or death matter...I mean very private and personal 'family' matter.
dead last |
02.16.06 - 7:41 pm | #
"Cheney is Hunter Education Certified, I suspect the reason it says Mr. Whittington is NOT is because at the time they were in the "blame Whittington mode" and this would further discredit him."
Possible. I wonder if there's a public record of that? Cheney being certified. If so, then we could see if Whittington isn't.
Cozumel |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:41 pm | #
OK, replying to comments in last thread.
Getting a patient up and moving is important for DVT prophylaxis and general well being. Whittington's injuries were to his upper body not his lower extremities or spinal cord. So as long as the wounds to the upper body were stable, he could and should be gotten up.
To my knowledge, Whittington was never intubated. This would be done only if there was an obstructed airway either due to his injuries or inability to clear secretions or a problem with the mechanics of breathing and an inability to get adequate air exchange in the lungs.
His hoarseness may have led him to believe he could not give the statement he would as a lawyer be comfortable with giving or yes, it could have been a ploy but a reasonable one.
You don't need to be in ICU to have telemetry or a private room and yes, ICUs can have private rooms. It just depends on the configuration and whether there are TV monitors. ICU beds are incredibly expensive and having someone there who doesn't absolutely need to be there is inexcusable.
Finally, the pellet that caused Whittington's AFib was probably in the pericardium not the myocardium. It could have gotten there either through direct penetration or fallen down after entering the chest cavity which does extend into the neck. Parenthetically, its location near the atria is interesting since this would put it near the SA node which initiates the electrical charge which begins a heart beat. It gets wacky and you can get AFib. The last I heard Whittington was back in sinus rhythm, another reason he should not be in ICU.
Hope this helps more than it angers or frustrates.
Hugh |
02.16.06 - 7:42 pm | #
Excellent point Mr. Casper
Bustednuckles |
02.16.06 - 7:43 pm | #
Hell, I'd love to see heart transplant surgeon Frist make a diagnosis of Cheney on the basis of his TV appearances.
That bloated belly ought to mean something to the distinguished doctor, along with the recurring foot problems and double popliteal aneurysms.
marky |
02.16.06 - 7:43 pm | #
Little boy bushie
Sat on his tushie
Waiting for Dickie to call
Rove said forget it,
I told Dick don't sweat it,
The press isn't on the ball
They'll never catch us,
No way can they match us,
McClellan will whitewash us pure
But Karl didn't realize
The press heard enough lies
And this time they're on it for sure
...or something like that
neurophius |
02.16.06 - 7:44 pm | #
Thanks, Marky, for your correction. I hadn't heard that.
David Derbes |
02.16.06 - 7:44 pm | #
Heck-of-a-job Brownie.
Shot-and-a-beer Cheney.
three dog |
02.16.06 - 7:45 pm | #
Hugh,
Thanks for answering almost all of my questions. What about the type of metal? Does that make any difference in prognosis---say lead vs. brass?
marky |
02.16.06 - 7:45 pm | #
Hey Guys, I just saw over at DU that this guy Whittington is Jim Bakers brother in law. O my, These are incestuous Bastards.
pearl from DU |
02.16.06 - 7:45 pm | #
I assumed the "migrating pellet" theory was an attempt to cover up for the stated distance being an obvious lie. If none of the pellets penetrated through clothing and the one that reached his heart started in his neck, the 30 yard distance is more plausible. If he took at least one pellet to the heart through clothes, vest, and whatever, then that's obviously a lie.
It does make you wonder what the "30 yards" is covering up, though. Could be as simple as the VP being seriously drunk and stupid and shooting Whittington near point-blank, or it could be something I'm not thinking of.
But I haven't trusted any of the hospital reports from the initial "he's doing great" (including the recent classic "he's sitting up and working, but mysteriously not watching any TV or talking to anyone.")
Redshift |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:46 pm | #
An old joke adapted.
Cheney & Co are to go hunting at 2:00pm. They have lunch at twelve noon. The host asks Dick if he wants a beer. He says "Yes, but stop me at one." As the host looks askance, Cheney says, "better make that one-thirty!""
sonate |
02.16.06 - 7:46 pm | #
WHY IN THE HELL DIDN'T THE WHITE HOUSE DOCS SEND THE TRAUMA VICTIM TO THE NEAREST TRAUMA HOSPITAL?
Hi folks -
This stinks to high heaven - even in Texas.
Q: What variable determines survival after severe gunshot wounds to the head, neck, and torso?
A: How long it takes the trauma vicitm to receive trauma center care (or the equivalent).
The White House docs, of all people, know this. So does the Secret Service - when Reagan was shot in D.C., there were published reports of the SS cleaning out the civvies waiting in ER at gunpoint. They knew how to cut down on the wait - and they knew why.
I have every reason to believe the White House docs in Cheney's travelling ICU have excellent trauma medicine skills.
So I have all the more reason to ask what they were thinking of when they decided that the 78 year old victim of severe gunshot wounds needed the slow ambulance ride to the local non-trauma hosptial - rather than the fast chopper ride to the trauma center?
If the White House docs and the Secret Service can't collectively figure out that trauma victims' chance of survival declines with each minute of delay in securing care, why are they being paid to protect assassination targets? Who hired these guys?
----------------
quote:
The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and 6:50 p.m., Christus Spohn spokeswoman Yvonne Wheeler said.
HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg medical personnel decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.
"Typically, why we get calls for transfers is for a higher level of care or a doctor preference," Rowe said.
The air ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital at 7:29 p.m. and landed at the Corpus Christi trauma center at 8:19 p.m., Rowe said. Whittington was awake and talking during the flight, he said.
kirk james murphy, m.d. |
02.16.06 - 7:46 pm | #
ceci,
"Every hunter (including out-of-state hunters) born on or after Sept. 2, 1971, must successfully complete a Hunter Education Training Course. Minimum age of certification is 12 years and cost is $10."
Not required or any big deal I guess if you were born prior to Sept. 2, 1971
Re: Texas aristocracy....check out Pam's hubby, one George W. (Boots) Willeford III who took Harry to the hospital (he's a gastro man himself), and Gale Norton appointed him to some National Park Service advisory board....oh, and Gov. George W. appointed him to the Managed Health Care Committee back in 2000...
Vhttp://www.austingastro.com/docbios/
willeford.html
M |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 7:48 pm | #
Hugh,
thank you very much. It is good that Whittington can get up and walk around. I'm no doc, but at his age if he cannot get upright, that would be bad, right?
I appreciate your comments, since I don't trust the people there on the scene to give it straight anymore.
anon_1 |
02.16.06 - 7:48 pm | #
Markey, The Government outlawed lead shot several years ago. No brass. Almost all steel.
Bustednuckles |
02.16.06 - 7:48 pm | #
Busted- steel shot is only for waterfowl I believe- lead is still the load of choice for upland game birds.
rwcole |
02.16.06 - 7:50 pm | #
Busted,
I'll take your word on those laws, but the docs refuse to say what kind of metal is in Whittington.
I have read that people still use lead shot.
marky |
02.16.06 - 7:50 pm | #
Regarding the Boy King, THIS is the meme that needs to go out, IMO -- thoughtfully provided by Tweety yesterday:
"Now we know who wears the pants in this administration."
Simply beautiful. On more than one level.
Mrs. K8 |
02.16.06 - 7:50 pm | #
kirk james murphy, m.d. | 02.16.06 - 7:46 pm |
I had similar thoughts. Rwcole responded "At the smaller hospital there would be fewer prying eyes- and it's possible some of em knew a doc there who could be counted on. Once they went to the big hospital- the chances of keeping it covered up evaporated."
I have no better story. What do you think?
sonate |
02.16.06 - 7:51 pm | #
neurophius, re Bush-Rove-Richard Bruce Cheney* poem
I think that is a great start. I sounds like a drinking song, which is certainly appropriate. Firs couple of stanzas are keepers for sure.
Strong Work! Keep us posted.
In some cases the team will stabilize the patient at the nearest clinic before they fly him.
This can have a lot of benefits; stabilizing a patient in the back of an ambulance can be dicey.
A medic at the scene may decide to fly a case like Whittington straight to a Level 1 trauma center based on age and mode of injury. This may be the only option if the nearest clinic is a long ride away.
It's a matter of the patient's injuries, condition, local protocols, and the judgment of the medic and his/her boss.
jjflash |
02.16.06 - 7:53 pm | #
BIRDSHOTS BALISTICS
Can a birdshots round, fired at more than 90 feets (30 yards) penetrate a fully clothed human thorax?
Think it was closest to point blank than that distance.
Nobody seem's to be very investigative about that excuse.
Jelco Cathlon |
02.16.06 - 7:53 pm | #
Aside from all the subsequent lies and distortions, isn't it entirely plausible that Cheney fell, passed out, or had some kind of fibrillation?
Not that I'm defending the guy.
hadenuf |
02.16.06 - 7:53 pm | #
I'm sorry. I'm missing something here.
How do we immediatly start moving in on Mr. Whittington drinking. There is no evidence of that, and by citing the fact Whittington didn't drink at lunch as proof that he's a closet rummy is ludicrous.
I don't drink at lunch either. Doesn't mean I I.V. Jack Daniels into my veins in private either.
filmgeek83 |
02.16.06 - 7:54 pm | #
Could very well be true about upland game. I do know it is illegal for waterfowl. i live in the PAC. NW. And try to keep up with these things. It's a nightmare when they come out with emergency rules.they are now trying to outlaw lead fishing weights.
Bustednuckles |
02.16.06 - 7:56 pm | #
kirk james murphy, m.d. | 02.16.06 - 7:46 pm
My guess is Dead Eye Dick wouldn't let them use "his" ambulance, because he was in denial about how badly hurt Harry was. Remember Katherine Armstrong's initial comments to the press, "Harry was talking right after Dead Eye shot him." That was Dead Eye's cover story and it stood up until Harry's "cardiac event." Then Brit Hume gets the real story, Harry was "not responding" after Dead Eye shot him.
OT, everything I have read is that it was a physicians assistant on duty, no M.D. I suspect the physicians assistant was repeatedly saying: "Mr. Vice-President, we need to get this man to a hospital immediately." Evidently Dead Eye vetoed the helicopter, but finally (after about 30 minutes?) relented and let "his" ambulance take Harry to the hospital.
John Casper |
02.16.06 - 7:56 pm | #
Lots of late night random thoughts.
One. Can't emphasize too much the resemblance of South Texas counties such as Kennedy County to a duchy, or principality. A county with only 400 plus or minus people who respond to the Census is run by a predominantely anglo aristocracy. They really do run it. Nothing of importance happens without the ok of the ruling ranchers. This is the perfect venue for Cheney to have plugged someone. Even if the Sheriff and/or the District Attorney think Cheney should be charged, he will not be charged if the Armstrong faction says no.
Two. Don't underestimate Mr. Whittington. He is sharp, tough, determined, and won't let go if he thinks he is right. I do not know his exact whereabouts this Thursday evening, but if he is still in South Texas, and for as long as he is there, he will not say anything that will jeopardize his safety further. He will play along and forgive Cheney, etc. But if he has any doubts about the legitimacy of the "accident" story, he will hold it until he is safely back in the Peoples' Republic of Austin. I have a fear that he will not survive.
Three: The key to knowing what really happened probably lies in the Secret Service Report and the memory of the Ambassador to Swizterland. I doubt that those stories will ever see the public light of day.
Four: Because it will be almost impossible to really nail this down, those of us in the "left" blogosphere risk becoming something like the conservative, right wing Republicans who kept on beating the dead horse of Vince Foster's death. Laughing stocks, in other words. I really don't mind, and in fact encourage, using this event to horse whip Dick Cheney out of office, but we really do have to be careful with accusations, innuendo and wild ass speculation.
What's needed is for someone to go to Kennedy County and actually talk to some of the people involved, rather than relying on the second and third hand reports of the media.
Doran |
02.16.06 - 7:58 pm | #
[More of same, cross posted]
Bottom line here?
Between them Cheney & Bush have 4 or 5 DUI arrests. Cheney has at least 3 DUI convictions. All this was covered up by the MSM, as was Bush's desertion of the TX Air National Guard during wartime [See here: [http://awolbush.com/]. Alberto Gonzales is the AG today only because he prevented Bush from testifying to his DUI arrests Under oath during a trial where he was called as a juror while Gov. Gonzales lied & covered up for him, a prerequisite for any high ranking job in the Bush administration. So undoubtedly Cheney Lied about what happened, and there was another of a long series of successful Bush coverups. Where are Harry's clothing? Shouldn't they be part of any investigation here? Does anyone actually watch CSI? Ever see a program where a big mucky muck was TOTALLY EXEMPT FROM *ANY* SERIOUS QUESTIONING?? Think about it guys. This says coverup. It practically screams it. It was a news distraction to get Cheney's Treason off the front pages. Hey, sacrifices must be made, right? This is the most criminally corrupt, venally incompetent administration in our history. They started a war on a raft of obvious lies that were known at the time, but went unreported by the media establishment. The 2nd VP to ever shoot another man DID nearly kill him at point blank range. And very few people are seriously asking 'Why' beyond accepting at face value something Cheney claims with little or no real evidence to back him up. He's an untrustworthy source, and most American's agree with that fair assessment. If this had been Al Gore in say 1997, he would have been tried & convicted for assault, and the right wing would still be screaming for his pelt. Make no mistake about it, this IS the Republican Chappaquiddick. Cheers, 'VJ'
VJ |
02.16.06 - 8:03 pm | #
"At the smaller hospital there would be fewer prying eyes- and it's possible some of em knew a doc there who could be counted on."
Sort of how the rich Republicans will get their abortions after they outlaw them for the support of the Bible humpers.
christofay |
02.16.06 - 8:04 pm | #
watertiger @ 02.16.06 - 7:21 pm -- My guess would be that it's likely to be difficult. Too much of today's programming talent lies outside the United States, and knowing how Skype works it is possible to imitate it. Somone wrote security evaluation of Skype, and it says enough that it should be possible to write a program that could work with the Skype system with a little cooperation from Skype. If one merely wished to create a product that wasn't compatible but has the same basic features, I don't think any more cooperation is required from Skype.
In short, computer technology is at the point where this sort of application is possible. If it isn't created here, or isn't available from the U.S., someone else will build it. While RSA is an encryption method (it's used in Skype) that's somewhat difficult to use due to intellectual property restrictions, there other methods freely available that are about as good.
Cujo359 |
02.16.06 - 8:04 pm | #
Re: what kind of metal shot--
If the local sheriff were competent AND not corrupt, wouldn't he have confiscated the attack weapon, the shooter's extra ammo, and the victim's damaged clothing as evidence until determining whether charges should be filed? I haven't seen the sheriff's report, does it say he did those things? If he took Cheney's extra ammo, wouldn't the report reveal what kind of shot was used? Since the docs at the hospital have a duty to file a report, shouldn't it include what kind of shot was found in the victim? So many questions unanswered.
neurophius |
02.16.06 - 8:05 pm | #
Mrs. K8 | 02.16.06 - 7:50 pm
Glad to hear you are doing better. And I agree on the pants theme/ meme. The very fact that all of the attention has been on Cheney, not Bush, only reinforces the idea that Bush is not in charge. Hoping that "subliminal" message will sink in, even for the repub voters who can't articulate it. Trust you see what I mean.
-
Valley Girl |
02.16.06 - 8:05 pm | #
Not to defend Whittington's doctors, but even if the victim had been drunk when admitted, it is likely a violation of confidentiality to reveal that without the patient's consent.
Except as early as Sunday or Monday they were all quick to state that Whittington had waived his confidentiality, allowing them to talk about his condition. This was before the development of him having shot lodged in his heart.
puppethead |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 8:06 pm | #
Whittington certainly had two chest xrays when admitted to the Corpus hospital. If he had only a couple of pellets, it would have been possible to plot their locations from the usual front and side xrays. However, with increasing numbers of pellots, this rapidly becomes an impossible task. I suspect the doctor just looked at the two dimensional locations and threw up his hands. Only with a CT scan could they have easily determined where the pellets were. The poster above who suggests the pellet was in the pericardium or dropped into the thorax is uninformed. Neither is possible.
seesdifferent |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 8:06 pm | #
I say let's interpret Bush's words for him. Remember he said he was satisfied with Cheney's account?
"Bush ok with Cheney shooting friend"---how's that?
marky |
02.16.06 - 8:08 pm | #
John Casper @ 02.16.06 - 7:56 pm -- I wouldn't be surprised if there was a legal restriction about using that ambulance for anyone else unless it's an emergency. While Whittington was badly wounded, it's clear that he didn't need immediate care.
One thing I learned working with the government is how many things you can't do that you would think you ought to be able to.
Cujo359 |
02.16.06 - 8:09 pm | #
"Nontoxic Shot: While waterfowl hunting, only nontoxic shot approved by the director of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service may be possessed. Lead shot is unlawful!"
The way this is worded indicates to me that it's specific to water fowl (only).
Cheney is an active drunk. His "boss" (hahahahaha) is also an active drunk (bike spills, VA gov campaign appearance UTTERLY FUCKED UP, numerous scraped-up face incidents, etc.)
Well, I don't know what to say. But like others have said, I hope this latest Dick thing makes Iran bombing more difficult, hopefully impossible. President Cheney will never be taken seriously again by anyone in the world, and his little chimp never was to begin with. The grownups of the world are going to leave our nation and these pathetic poseurs behind.
Sharkbabe |
02.16.06 - 8:11 pm | #
Classic Daily Show already.
They show the Fox folks saying this is not a story, get over it, etc.
Then they show the story the did cover - the Entwhistle shooting. They show the plane in the air, give the landing time to the minute, show the door of the plane opening, and show the cop car on the highway that is transporting him, bring in panels of lawyers to comment on it....
gleex |
02.16.06 - 8:12 pm | #
Coz,
Water toxicity issues remind me of an article I read about Chinese methods of catching live fish.
As you know, they like to have the fish live in a tank, killed just before cooking. Some sort of poison is employed. Currently, this technique is harming the coral reefs---but the problem isn't new. Apparently, more than 1000 years ago, the Chinese emperor forbade the use of some poisons to stun fish---cyanide in particular, IIRC.
marky |
02.16.06 - 8:13 pm | #
Valley Girl --
The beauty of Tweety's wording, that "Cheney wears the pants" in this administration is that it makes Georgie look like a little girl.
But then I'm sure you knew that. :-)
So let's just keep spreading that meme far and wide. We all know that there are still lots of men who hate to hear it questioned "who wears the pants in your family?" even though such a phrase is supposed to be, uh, no longer culturally relevant.
It plays into all sorts of deep psychic fears in the minds of some of the people we want to convince.
Bush DOESN'T "wear the pants" in this administration.
Thank you, Tweety, thank you. Never thought I would thank you for anything, but...thank you!
Mrs. K8 |
02.16.06 - 8:13 pm | #
Mrs. K8,
Bush wears whatever pants Cheney and Laura put in front of him, thank you very much!
marky |
02.16.06 - 8:15 pm | #
"While Whittington was badly wounded, it's clear that he didn't need immediate care."
Did you read the transcript of Dead Eye's interview with Hume? Harry was "non-responsive" when Dead Eye asked him how he was doing. I think you're relying on published versions of Dead Eye's first cover story. It didn't survive after Harry's "cardiac event" which is why Dead Eye changed it (and left Mrs. Armstrong out to dry in the process.)
Wrt to the legality, most ambulances I am familar with can accomodate two patients. Dead Eye was more than welcome to ride along. With that said, I agree completely with: "One thing I learned working with the government is how many things you can't do that you would think you ought to be able to."
John Casper |
02.16.06 - 8:17 pm | #
Heck-of-a-job Brownie.
Shot-and-a-beer Cheney.
three dog |
02.16.06 - 8:19 pm | #
"I hope this latest Dick thing makes Iran bombing more difficult, hopefully impossible"
A great comment sharkbabe, I hope Dems and moderate Rethugs are trying to impress this upon the WH.
John Casper |
02.16.06 - 8:21 pm | #
CNN has an interesting story about Cheney's shooting the old man in the face and heart. It raises some doubts about the sheriff's report. Clearly there was a whitewash. They said something I hadn't heard before about a "constable" (?) who lives on the ranch, who was somehow involved in the investigation. It sounds like the sheriff relied on the constable's interviews of some witnesses in concluding that it was an accident. The chief deputy who interviewed Cheney* said the investigation is over, done with, clearly an accident, end of story.
Q. "I just saw over at DU that this guy Whittington is Jim Bakers brother in law"--does anyone have a link or URL to that statement? Sounds interesting...
*Richard Bruce Cheney, accompanied by two younger women neither of whom were his wife, with his custom-made $23,000 Italian shotgun shot a 78-year-old man in the face and heart after drinking alcohol. He then tried to cover it up through an orchestrated disinformation campaign that included outright lies made to mislead the public at large. Richard Bruce Cheney is the first sitting VP to shoot a man since Aaron Burr. Burr, unlike Cheney, did not commit treason until vacating office.
neurophius |
02.16.06 - 8:23 pm | #
Not really a poetry sort of guy - but:
He's chokin', how everybody's jokin' now
The clocks run out, times up over, blah
Snap back to reality, Oh there goes gravity
tryggth |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 8:24 pm | #
Oh, man crooks and liars or ComCen has got to get the video out on the The Daily Show.
They did a Known Issues on what people are/are not talking about.
They had Scotty "Scotty Don't" McClellan
saying "I am not going to comment on an ongoing investigation" Then they ask- was he talking about:
a. The Dick shoting that man case
b. The illegal NSA wiretaps
c. Katrina failure investigation
d. Plame outing a CIA agent affair
(5 second pause....)
e. JACK abramOFF investigation
f. Abu prisoner abuse cover-up
g. Guntanamo cover-up
h. Tom DeLay investigation
i. forgot this one, there are to many
j. silencing NASA
k.......contract for the hijackers country to control our major ports
l........
oh I don't know, the Frist insider trading, and all the other ones we can't even keep up with
gleex |
02.16.06 - 8:24 pm | #
I forgot -
The same White House docs who turned down the helicopter medevac to the trauma center in order to send their elderly trauma victim by vehicle to the non-trauma hospital -
Those folks?
Earlier in the week Whittington's hospital said they were involved in his care when he developed cardiac complications.
Then Whittington's hospital changed the story to say they needed to consult with the doctors who had first treated the patient, hence the need to involve the White House docs in the care of the victim their boss shot some days before.
The chronology in the Corpus Cristi Times establishes:
The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and 6:50 p.m., Christus Spohn spokeswoman Yvonne Wheeler said.
HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg medical personnel decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.
OK - Whittington rolls in the non-trauma center's ER at Kingsberg and within seventeen to twenty-two minutes later the ER is calling the medivac flight - the same service the Secret Service first notified at around 6 PM. The ambulance left Kingsberg at 7:19 PM and arrived at [Memorial] fifty minutes later.
Hmm...so the same docs who were with the victim from 5:30 (or 5:50 - choose your eyewitness account) could have summoned the air ambulance at any time thereafter.
Yet it was the docs in Kingsberg who reached the astonishing conclusion that this 78 year-old victim of severe gunshot wounds required air transport to a trauma center - a conclusion which escaped the medical team caring for the patient over the preceding sixty to ninety minutes.
So we are asked to believe that when Mr Whittington's condition worsened, the docs at the trauma center required consultation with the same team who never figured out their patient required the trauma center...until they got to a hospital and some other doctor told them?
In trauma, they talk about the Golden Hour. If you can get a patient treated within this time frame (and this means more than field work), the chances of survival go way up. I would think that this would be even truer for someone who is elderly.
It took an hour from the time of the incident until he was at Kingsville where the assessment was made almost immediately that he needed to be transferred to a higher level facility. Corpus Christi had to be contacted and accept the patient before they could initiate the transfer and then they had to wait for the copter. This was all so much time wasted. There was very little time to do anything at Kingsville. It would be interesting to know if they even drew blood for tests. I agree that how he caught to Corpus Christi is inexplicable. Perhaps there were security protocols involved with the VP. I have no idea.
The question about the pellets left in the body is one of cost benefit. If they are difficult to remove and might increase trauma and stress to the patient and pose no significant threat to the patient, there is no great benefit removing them.
If you are thinking about lead poisoning, the body will wall off and encapsulate them in fibrous sheaths essentially isolating them from the rest of the body. Remember, some servicemen still carry lead and shrapnel they received in WWII 60 years on.
Hugh |
02.16.06 - 8:26 pm | #
"One thing I learned working with the government is how many things you can't do that you would think you ought to be able to."
Cujo359 | 02.16.06 - 8:09 pm |
I simultaneously agree and disagree. Yes, the rules are a maze of molasses. However, management is by "exception." We don't need people to "follow the rules." Anybody that knows the rules can do this. We need people to know when the rules don't apply. Yes, they can be called on the carpet later, but that's the risk a manager takes." (Of course, they can also be called on the carpet for a too rigid application of the rules.)
sonate |
02.16.06 - 8:27 pm | #
Cheney said to Brit Hume that he was above the law and can do anything he wants. If he wanted to use his personal ambulance to save a man's life he could have. He obviously chose not to.
puppethead |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 8:28 pm | #
"Bush DOESN'T "wear the pants" in this administration."--Mrs. K8
From Tweety's newscast tomorrow:
"President George W. Bush, who doesn't wear the pants in this administration, said today that he is 'entirely satisfied' with Vice President Cheney's explanation of the circumstances surrounding his shooting of a 78 year old man in the face and heart with a shotgun after drinking 'a beer'...
neurophius |
02.16.06 - 8:28 pm | #
Hugh,
Thanks again. I wasn't thinking about lead poisoning; rather, I was wondering if one metal would be more irritating and harder to enclose--especially, say, a piece right next to the heart.
Since the doctors won't say what the metal is, I infer there is clinical significance.
marky |
02.16.06 - 8:29 pm | #
seesdifferent: You say "The poster above who suggests the pellet was in the pericardium or dropped into the thorax is uninformed. Neither is possible."
Can you please explain why neither is possible for the benefit of those of us without much medical knowledge? Thanks.
tedb |
02.16.06 - 8:32 pm | #
I thought it amazing that Jr. was aloud to pronouce judgement on Dick Cheney. What do you suppose Jr. had to give up/do for that?
tryggth |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 8:32 pm | #
Hey tryg.. Cheney is a god-like figure, isn't he? Bush was very brave.
Cheney is close to god.. but not close enough for my taste.
marky |
02.16.06 - 8:34 pm | #
kirk james murphy, m.d. | 02.16.06 - 8:24 pm
Didn't realize the guys at the scene scratched the air ambulance.
This one comes with a load of fish and I'm more than pleased not to be working with those White House fools.
jjflash |
02.16.06 - 8:34 pm | #
Good reasoning.
neurophius |
02.16.06 - 8:37 pm | #
You would think somewhere along the line of foot-dragging in getting appropriate care to Mr. Whittington, that SOME medical personnel -- SOMEONE who takes their Hippocratic oath seriously, or a nurse dedicated to patient care -- would be REALLY disgusted by how it went down.
And who might later end up being an "anonymous source" for a story. No?
Mrs. K8 |
02.16.06 - 8:37 pm | #
This is the bio of the wonderful judge that just issued a TRO against the Dept. of Justice in favor of the EPIC in its civil suit to obtain NSA documents under FOIA.
sola mia |
02.16.06 - 8:38 pm | #
marky-
Brave enough, like those who ate beef after mad-cow, to go hunting with Dick.
Can't you see it? "Just want 'mericans to know huntin' with Prznit Vice Cheney is,... you know,... safe."
tryggth |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 8:41 pm | #
"Hey Guys, I just saw over at DU that this guy Whittington is Jim Bakers brother in law. O my, These are incestuous Bastards.
pearl from DU | 02.16.06 - 7:45 pm | #"
Cheney is close to god.. but not close enough for my taste.
marky --
Methinks it's another spiritual entity entirely, whom Cheney is close to -- and he is EXTREMELY close to that entity.
Who was it wrote that brilliant line the other day -- that Satan wears a bracelet that says "What Would Cheney Do"?
That's about the sum of it.
Mrs. K8 |
02.16.06 - 8:41 pm | #
Medically, the 'migrating pellet' makes no sense at all. Much more likely, it was a pellet that hit the heart. Mr. Whittington may be good and alive, but he's not in good shape. The main damage was in a vital area of the neck. He didn't want to be 'taped' in an interview because of hoarseness. That could be damage to the recurrent laryngeal nerve, or the vocal chords. The doctor's statement that they didn't do a scan [CAT Scan] because it would be blurred made no sense either. I didn't follow the why of it, but even if it blurred, do it anyway. My thought when I heard it was that they didn't want publishable documentation of the extent of the damage. The cheery hospital reports are also odd. Hospitals don't usually talk like that, 'joking in bed.' It's dangerous, since you look foolish when the patient's condition deteriorates.
I expect that Mr. Whittington is not going to look so great if he gets into the public eye. Shotguns are pretty formidable weapons. If he were in the swell shape they're implying, I think we might have seen an inpatient interview...
Mickey |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 8:42 pm | #
By the way, has Ambassador Willefords' chin been dusted for the ballprints of Drunken Deadeye Dick Cheney Shotgunner of the 78 Year Old Man's Face With French Shotgun?
Notice she was next to Drunken Deadeye Dick Cheney Shotgunner of the 78 Year Old Man's Face With a French Shotgun but was not one of the eyewitnesses?
Also, how is it possible for James Carville to sire children with Mary Matalin?
Lots of different forums (or "fora" if you prefer) over there, but you might poke around in "Latest Breaking News" "General Discussion" or "General Discussion: Politics."
Somebody must have an investigatory thread going on Whittington.
Mrs. K8 |
02.16.06 - 8:45 pm | #
Hannity "The Vice-President, who does not have a history of drinking..."
Just lie.. creep.
marky |
02.16.06 - 8:46 pm | #
Hannity is so loathesome. God, the whole lot of them are despicable and getting despicabler.
-GSD
Mrs. K8,
That is a funny one.
Granite State Destroyer |
02.16.06 - 8:50 pm | #
Jane, Thanks for letting us come along on your investigation. It's like you're Miss Marple and we get to sift through and analyze all the clues with you. My theory? Dick winged him on purpoe to cover the Katrina report. Ok, ok, he didn't mean to get him as badly as he did, but hey, "take one for America, Buddy."
JAY |
02.16.06 - 8:51 pm | #
A likely scenario is that Cheney was shooting from the truck, since his feet, knees and heart are shot. That would give him the extra elevation.
marky |
02.16.06 - 8:56 pm | #
seesdifferent
Metal plays havoc with both x rays and CTs. You get a lot of scatter patterns that obscure structures. In general, you can get an idea of what's going on but no specifics, especially when so many and so small pieces are involved.
The chest cavity is, in fact, a cavity with numerous structures that are not rigidly fixed and need space to move: the diaphragm, the lungs, the heart, even the esophagus, the trachea, and the great vessels. As I have pointed out, the chest cavity extends into the lower neck and Whittington received apparently substantial shot in his neck. Any shot that entered the chest cavity from above could move through the interstices of the chest cavity and come to rest against the pericardium which is a very sensitive sheath for the heart muscle. If you do not agree with this characterization, then we will just have to disagree.
Hugh |
02.16.06 - 8:57 pm | #
Okay, this is the first attempted explanation I've seen for the discrepancy as to which way Cheney turned before shooting: "Cheney said a bird flew behind him and the report said, "he followed the bird in a counterclockwise direction." That meant he turned left before shooting right."Newsday
JWR |
02.16.06 - 9:04 pm | #
Asked a friend who is a vascular surgeon if he thought Wittington would be okay. Here's his answer:
"Yes...70% chance (my est.) if the scar tissue doesn't cause chronic arrhythmias or an intracardiac blood clot which could embolize to the brain or other vitlal organ. Makes one wonder if these guys were hunting in the nude, or topless. Maybe that's an issue the press has failed to capitalize on."
susan |
02.16.06 - 9:06 pm | #
That poor man being jostled around over country roads when he could have been air ambulanced out at the scene.
jan |
02.16.06 - 9:09 pm | #
Jane's got a new one for us---Firedoglake: CSI
RBG |
02.16.06 - 9:09 pm | #
John Casper, and Jane,
I forgot to credit Laura Rozen's blog www.warandpiece.com for that WaPo article.
All I can say is this is a whole lot scarier than Watergate ever was.
Lots of otherwise normal people seem to glory in submitting themselves to their earthly "leaders," both religious and national.
Deeply creepy.
Margot |
Homepage |
02.16.06 - 9:13 pm | #
And, for what it's worth, my husband is a veterinarian who has treated quite a few hunting dogs sprayed with bird shot.
He said that given the pattern, and the penetration of the shot, Cheney had to be a lot closer than 30 yards.
I asked him if he removes the pellets, and he said that if they are easily accessible, yes. However, trying to dig them out often causes additional trauma (and risks infection), so the less accessible ones are left in the body.
susan |
02.16.06 - 9:16 pm | #
So, not to defend the Veep, who is Satan incarnate, but what's the objective evidence that he's got a drinking problem? I can't say that I find a couple of DUI convictions from the 60s to be terribly damning. If this is one of those open secrets in DC, that's one thing, but is there any evidence that would persuade a skeptic? Just wondering.
Melancholic Lefty |
02.16.06 - 9:23 pm | #
Melancholic Lefty - best to ask upstairs in the newest thread.
JWR |
02.16.06 - 9:25 pm | #
The tough thing in this case, is like I heard today from Randi Rhodes. Either Dick was trying to not be seen in public by the police or at the hospital to be in any impaired state, or he just could care less that he put his friend/good friend/acquaintance in the hospital.
Both are equally plausible.
johnnydrama |
02.16.06 - 9:52 pm | #
I'm with filmgeek83. I'd love to get Cheney as much as any of you, but "Armstrong said she didn't see him drinking at lunch -- a telltale sign of a closet alcoholic" ?!? Quit it, you're making us look bad.
Do we all need to have a drink at every lunch from now on, so Jane won't think we're alkies?
Jane has evidently decided that Cheney was drunk, and seems to think that the burden of proof is on those who would say otherwise. As for me, it's clear that Cheney recklessly shot a man, we have no way of establishing his blood alcohol content (and the story about him making a cocktail after the shooting muddies the water even more). But we don't need to. It was just as much of an offense if he was cold sober.
Joe Buck |
02.17.06 - 9:34 am | #
Armstrong said she didn't see him drinking at lunch -- a telltale sign of a closet alcoholic
So evidence of not drinking is evidence of alcoholism? You sound like a wingnut.
Jane, I love you, but I really think you're going overboard on this story. Please, dial it back a tad.
peurile |
02.17.06 - 9:41 am | #
Love the poems of your later post. And thanks for all those with medical expertise who've elucidated some things...
I do have agree with some earlier comments, however, that while closet alcoholics do indeed behave in certain ways, *not* drinking at lunch is most definitely not proof of closet drinking!
The refusal to comment on Whittington's blood-alcohol level was odd, though, and it'd be nice to know that, although the credibilty of the doctors unfortunately is now a question.
So many questions still abound...
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