Let's try a little word replacement game: We don't need any new gun laws. We just need to enforce the gun laws we already have.
Now go through the above paragraph and replace "gun" with "government eavesdropping". Viola! Now even the NRA should be able to understand the issue.
Frank Probst |
03.19.06 - 12:58 pm | #
If this makes Hume's head explode- then it's worth it- no matter what else happens...but who will clean up all the cheese spread after it happens?
rwcole |
03.19.06 - 12:58 pm | #
Plame case breaking: Libby names National Security Advisor Hadley; Woodward's source?
Raw Story
rwcole | 03.19.06 - 12:53 pm |
Not sure I understand. Is Raw Story saying that Libby has "fingered" Hadley as Woodward's source? Or is Libby referring to Hadley (presumed to be Woodward's source) in some other context?
sonate |
03.19.06 - 1:03 pm | #
Frank Probst - brilliant.
ember |
03.19.06 - 1:03 pm | #
sonate---don't know- that's the whole post at this point.
Raw Story has a bad habit of overselling it's stories with the headlines- so we'll see!
rwcole |
03.19.06 - 1:05 pm | #
What's really at risk here -- not 2006, not 2008, not the constitutional democratic republic for which it stands -- what's at risk here is:
access to cocktail wienies.
Russ upset the conventional thinking so thoroughly and so magically that neither cowering Dems nor hysterical GOPers can see the way out of the maze Feingold dropped over them. Find the cheese anymore? I don't think so.
Thanks, Jane, for making it clear that Russ has hit the trifecta:
Principle: Censure is good for America.
Politics: Censure is good for the Democrats.
Ambition: Censure is good for Russ Feingold.
Any attempt to wiggle around these three puts the lie to the wiggler, and makes Brit's head explode. Spontaneous combustion: look it up, it's Brit Hume. Oh, and Hillary. heh heh.
Is Bill Kristol the only one who's going to point out the obvious?
That is one of the most depressing things I've read in a long time.
Zergle |
03.19.06 - 1:10 pm | #
Bill Kristol being right is almost as depressing as John Dean being right over, and over, and over again. W = Worse than Watergate, he wrote, years ago now....
TeddySanFran |
03.19.06 - 1:13 pm | #
all cliches are true. the emperor has no clothes, etc...
the dems are like a toddler too scared to take a first step or the kid who won't jump off the high dive... they have a phobia and are panicked by the thought of standing up to the nutjobs...
travy |
03.19.06 - 1:22 pm | #
Did I miss a memo?
“I can’t rule anything out until the investigation is complete. I don’t want to prejudge it,” said Durbin, the Senate’s No. 2 Democrat. “But if this president or any president violates the law, he has to be held accountable.”
What investigation? Did I just miss something?
Zergle |
03.19.06 - 1:23 pm | #
Oh God! The wholsale rejection of Feingold's proposal has me thinking that the Democratic party is not worth the effort (or any effort). Does anyone know how Feingold himself is reacting to the enablers in his own party?
Katherine |
03.19.06 - 1:24 pm | #
Didn't we have five Lions posted on the list at above right just the other day? Who got crossed off, and why?
neurophius |
03.19.06 - 1:25 pm | #
I say bullshit to all the musings-- whether from the left, right or center-- about what Feingold is thinking regarding 2006 or 2008.
ANY AMERICAN WHO TRULY LOVES THIS GREAT COUNTRY OF OURS AND ALL THAT OUR FRAMING FATHERS ENVISIONED....SHOULD BE CHEERING HIM ON FROM EVERY CORNER, EVERY ROOFTOP.
Larry |
03.19.06 - 1:25 pm | #
yay Larry, what you said!
angie |
03.19.06 - 1:28 pm | #
God that was fun watching Hume coming unglued this morning. Sheer entertainment. I thought he was going to pop all the veins in his neck. Mwaaaaaa.
Gee, Jane. You sure have a nice collection of photos of Russ Feingold. Really cheers me up!!
meta |
03.19.06 - 1:29 pm | #
TeddySanFran | 03.19.06 - 1:05 pm
Thanks, Jane, for making it clear that Russ has hit the trifecta:
Principle: Censure is good for America.
Politics: Censure is good for the Democrats.
Ambition: Censure is good for Russ Feingold.
That is the clearest summation yet -- so why don't the DC Dems get it?
One reason -- binary thinking. Things like We can back the DPW issue, or we can back censure -- but we can't do both.
Near the end of the Battle for Florida in 2000, on the NewsHour the GOoPerBot (Brooks? Gigot?) said that when given a choice of five different points of attack, Team Gore chose one -- when given the parallel choice, Team Bush chose them all. Guess which approach worked? It's not that all of the Team Bush strategies worked, but that one of them worked. When the undercount in a few counties approach of Team Gore crapped out, they walked away from the table leaving more than 20,000 overvotes uncounted.
The DC Dems need to learn that firing up the base, courting swing voters, and splitting off disaffected conservatives CAN BE DONE AT THE SAME TIME. They are NOT mutually exclusive -- in fact, successful politics can be defined as appealing the widest possible spectrum of the population, without narrow-casting to a mushy (and non-existent) middle.
REPEAT AFTER ME:
THE NEW REPUBLIC IS A NEO-CON PYS-OP
THE NEW REPUBLIC IS A NEO-CON PYS-OP
THE NEW REPUBLIC IS A NEO-CON PYS-OP
THE NEW REPUBLIC IS A NEO-CON PYS-OP
THE NEW REPUBLIC IS A NEO-CON PYS-OP
NOW GOT THE MESSAGE
BECAUSE IT WILL SAVE YOU MUCH TIME ALONG WITH YOUR SANITY
Durbin handled the Chis Wallace interview well. But when you have the facts solidly on your side, I just do not see the problem with answering in an honest and straightforward way, i.e., "Yes Chris, it's premature, but I don't rule out the possibility of impeachment." and "Yes Chris, based on what the President himself has said, it seems all but certain that he has broken the law."
roberto |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 1:33 pm | #
Agreed roberto. What precisely has them so scared?
Zergle |
03.19.06 - 1:37 pm | #
Great Post Jane. Thanks for spending so much time on Feingolds censure resolution. The censure resolution is important policy and it is good politics too.
I sent an email to Eleanor Clift yesterday making many of the points that have been made by others. I hope she gets a lot of mail because using quotes from Marshall Whittmann, leads me to believe that she doesn't read many blogs. In my email, one of the points I made to her is that progressive blogs are far more relevant to democratic politics nowadays than people like Whittman and her anonymous Democratic strategist and that she should have included quotes from some of the blogs in her commentary.
Over this weekend I have also received solicitations from the DNC and the Oregon Democratic Party. I sent them both back with a note saying I wouldn't contribute anymore money until the DNC comes out in favor of Feingolds censure resolution and until Ron Wyden signs on as a cosponsor of the resolution.
I feel bad about not contributing to the DNC because I really like Howard Dean, but in my view the DNC should be responsible to us, the Democratic voters who strongly support Feingold.
Alvord |
03.19.06 - 1:37 pm | #
Running away from Feingold like scared rabbits is part of some cockamamie grand scheme by the Dem leadership to drop another election, even one that is handed them on a silver platter.
Of course, we, the rabble, will never know the substance of the grand scheme to lose another election.
All the Dems, whether Senators or strategists, who distanced themselves from Feingold are shameful.
janeboatler |
03.19.06 - 1:37 pm | #
Sniveling Kristol even shocked the big nerd, Chris Wallace, who seemed so blown away that anyone would even think of impeaching Chimpy. Boy, does he have a cold bucket of water with his name on it.
meta |
03.19.06 - 1:37 pm | #
Ya know...the whole "Democratic Party Establishment" is starting to look more and more like crab people.
Zergle |
03.19.06 - 1:44 pm | #
I just put my bogeyman out there for everyone to see over at http://www.callingallwingnuts.com. Essentially, it goes like this: what happens if dems win in spite of themselves? All these idiots rallying for pre-emptive surrender will stake a claim to strategic greatness - all of us clamoring for a fight will be marginalized further...
so really, we're in a no win situation unless we can get more dems to show some courage. if dems like Paul Hackett (I know he's not running - just using him as an example) win some races while the Jane Harmons and Liebermans get primaried into retirement and then see their seat won by the Dem that took them out... well, that's our only way out of this.
Mike Stark |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 1:50 pm | #
Zerige, I don't know. The Repugs are digging a deeper hole every day, and still - no comment from the DINO's. It doesn't get any easier than this!
The only thing I can guess is that Rove has them so completely whipped and battered and brainwashed and saddled with internalized oppression, that we are all scratching for a little hope for de-programming. Even a bold statement of well-argued and substantiated facts and truth from Feingold doesn't shake them out of their stupor, partly because he's a serious contender. Hillary must have been licking her massive wounds all weekend.
meta |
03.19.06 - 1:50 pm | #
To paraphrase Ghostbusters, when someone asks you if you want to censure Bush, you say YES!!!
Attacking Bush should be their default stance on everything, and I will continue to believe this until someone shows me that playing the "sensible moderate Democrat" has reaped anything other than Sunday talk show invitations. And Lieberman's and Biden's disagreements with Bush don't get a fraction of the airplay that their agreements do.
Useful idiots indeed!
Changing FISA? WTF? That's like solving the problem of high murder rates by making murder legal. It's not just giving the Bush administration a fig leaf of legal propriety, it's actually walking around in front of him holding the fig leaf over his crotchal area. The president is supposed to follow the law; the law is not supposed to follow the president.
And someone really needs to tell Clift that if she wants anyone to continue listening to her, quoting a guy who refers to himself in the third person as the "Moose" is probably not the way to go about it.
Royko |
03.19.06 - 1:54 pm | #
The difference here is between people interested in doing the right thing, and people interested in taking power.
Unfortunately, to many people, politics is nothing more than a game where power is the object and winning is the only thing. Those darned things like "scruples" and "ideals" are, at best to many, necessary evils needed to attract attention from the masses who, in a stunning display of doublethink, know they're being fleeced and buy into it anyway as if it's the only game in town.
If the game is crooked, it's time to leave the game.
Mark Bialkowski |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 1:56 pm | #
Wow, I'm surprised Brit didn't mention "hosing down" Juan again ...
Lee Baby |
03.19.06 - 1:58 pm | #
After the Democrats were beaten in the 2002 election, the Dem consultants advised that sitting back and doing nothing was the best strategy, since the GOP would be done in by over reaching.
Sad to say, that might finally be happening --
Unfortunately, the same advice could have been given to opponents of Hitler and the Nazis in the 1930's -- they were eventually done in by over reaching; but was the price paid by everyone else worth it?
Hmmm,my post went missing,Any way, I was asking Jane and Christy if they would consider putting up a link between the two sites.
Bustednuckles |
03.19.06 - 2:05 pm | #
What ever happened our gonads? Dean was the only prominent Democrat who had them in 2004, and Feingold is the only prominent Democrat who has them now. How low does Bush's approval rating have to go before the rest of the Democrats grow some gonads? Oh, wait, they don't regenerate. That must explain it. The Democrats lost their gonads after 9/11 (if not before), and since they don't grow back they'll never regain them.
Frederick |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 2:05 pm | #
The Democratic Party has to be permanently de-coupled from its corporate paymasters. It's that simple. No progress is possible otherwise.
So the best thing to do is stop giving money to the DCCC and the DNC and give it to the netroots challengers like Lamont and also to Feingold.
Kristol just gave away the store - will the Democrats even notice?
Aside - a great long-term progressive strategy would be to elect progressive Dems to state legislatures on a platform of corporate reform including revocation of corporate personhood. We need to attack, at the root, the ability of corporations to control legislatures, and corporate personhood is the legal fiction that enables them to rig the whole system through their money games. That's because the legal fiction of corporate personhood enables corporate donations to hide behind the First Amendment.
Splash |
03.19.06 - 2:07 pm | #
Can someone explain to me how forcing the Republicans to rally around an unpopular President just as they're trying to distance themselves from him is going to hurt the Democrats?
Great point and one I've not seen made before in previous discussions. It's even fun thinking of their discomfort at having to do something distasteful to them at this point.
B. Muse/Southern Dem |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 2:11 pm | #
I'll be back on the telephone tomorrow calling senators to support Feingold's motion to censure Bush - because it's the absolutely correct thing to do - and to tell them to forget about that weak and phony strategy they've been talked into.
DOT |
03.19.06 - 2:14 pm | #
So why are we spending so much time on these Republican shills and what they say and write? Hers'a democratic talking point that should be changed: "This aint Barry Goldwater's Republican party!" Well, actually it is, and if W's polls were up aroung 55 % all on board would be saying what a Grand Old Party we have. Our talking points on this should be that Bush is a failure of Conservative Republicanism. They put him in there and they kept him there. The corporate elite also deserve the honors. And we should be hammering both of them. Chafee, Snowe, Collins are enablers for the Conservative wing and they may be even more reponsible than the Conservative wing because they didn't supply the temperance that the radical Conservative wing required to remain effective.
Andre |
03.19.06 - 2:16 pm | #
Chuck Hagel came out and dissed the war in blistering, Murtha-esque terms today.
I'm waiting for Marshall Wittmann to accuse Hagel of giving Bush "manna from Heaven", just like he did with Murtha and Feingold.
Oh, and when TNR opposes something a Democrat does, that's the Gold Seal of Approval as far I'm concerned.
Phoenix Woman |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 2:17 pm | #
mucho brillante posta
Bill Kristol, Bob Woodward, Ron Popeil: triplets separated at birth.
pukebot |
03.19.06 - 2:18 pm | #
ck | 03.19.06 - 1:29 pm
The Demo/Dino leadership, being predominantly male, has a great deal of difficulty multi-tasking. You know, fighting two or more fronts at the same time, holding two or more ideas in their head simultaneously.
Rovesputin has no such problem, he is in fact a Media Medusa, many multi-tasking vipers on his head all at once.
He laughs in their face; ha.
I heard it told once, that during his public school years, Rovesputin used to tape a sign over his bed that said,"America, wake up!"
How ironic a taunt to blow back at the rest of us all these years later.
Demo/Dino leadership: Archie Bunker trying to fill out a grocery list after they rearranged the shelves at a Wal-Mart Super Store.
.
Gentleman Jim |
03.19.06 - 2:18 pm | #
What worries me is what will it take to wake them from the stupor?
I never would have dreamed it could have gotten this far.
Zergle |
03.19.06 - 2:20 pm | #
I have to wonder whether there's something more operating here--it just doesn't compute that 40 Democratic senators would be so dumb as to work against their own interests with this head-in-the-sand posture over censure. The fact that they are not even willing to go on the offensive when the polls give them all the cover necessary suggests there's another factor that we're unaware of. Is it the corporate paymasters pulling the strings or perhaps the NSA spying has effective dirt on top leaders (Pelosi? Reid?). Any thoughts?
LL |
03.19.06 - 2:24 pm | #
Don't vote for any dem who won't sign a loyalty oath to Feingold!
rwcole |
03.19.06 - 2:25 pm | #
42% of americans support censure. 50% oppose it.
rwcole |
03.19.06 - 2:26 pm | #
The DC Republicans have abandoned the Conservative movement -- but Conservatives have not abandoned the GOP. Will True Conservatives give up their principles, or abandon the GOP?
The choice is simple -- and stark.
Conservatives can turn their backs on their principles, or they can turn their backs on the GOP.
LL - This is what I am thinking. How do you think the Chimp was able to effectively counter everything in the 2004 election, strategywise?
You would have to be an idiot to think that Bush hasn't turned the spying on his political enemies. He has got dirt on them and they are cowering. There can be no other explianation.
shooogarp |
03.19.06 - 2:33 pm | #
The other night I asked (and someone asked me to re-ask when we were all more awake) whether the simplest answer to the issue of why the Dems don't attack might not be the answer -
are we really sure that the Dems in Congress actually oppose Bush's policies? oppose his destruction of the constitution? oppose his policy of pre-emptive murder?
what *evidence* do we have beyond our desire for an opposition do we have that anyone beyond Feingold and the Conyers Impeachment contingent actually oppose these policies?
written as Fox News continues their Attack Iran drumbeat
siun |
03.19.06 - 2:34 pm | #
I'm a little confused on Libby's apparent strategy, and I think it may be because I need a little refreshing on some of the finer points of what's going down.
Libby is charged with perjury and obstructing justice, and not with ratting out Valerie Plame. Correct?
Then why does his defense team appear to be preparing a defense based on Libby not being the first to have spilled the beans about Plame to reporters?
My mind has been largely focused elsewhere recently, and I may just have let some basic slip my mind in the meantime, but do the perjury and obstruction charges actually hinge on whether Libby was the first to rat out Plame? I recall the two being separate issues.
Again, I may just be in need of a remedial Plamegate refresher course, but that sounds awfully odd to me.
Uh... Clem |
03.19.06 - 2:36 pm | #
mucho brillante posta
Bill Kristol, Bob Woodward, Ron Popeil: triplets separated at birth.
pukebot |
03.19.06 - 2:39 pm | #
Ya know...the whole "Democratic Party Establishment" is starting to look more and more like crab people.
Shorter Dems: If Bush continues to break the law, why, we'll pass another law! How about a law that makes lawbreaking illegal?
crackpot |
03.19.06 - 2:42 pm | #
One cannot overstate the correctness of Jane's point, which I therefore feel free to restate:
"Can someone explain to me how forcing the Republicans to rally around an unpopular President just as they're trying to distance themselves from him is going to hurt the Democrats?"
suin - So Nader was effectively correct when he said that there was no difference between Gore and Bush in 2004...no significant difference between the Dems and GOP?
shooogarp |
03.19.06 - 2:43 pm | #
Notice that the likes of Lizza don't complain when Lieberman or Clinton put their planned presidential campaigns ahead of the Democratic Party's immediate interests. It's only when it comes from the left that it's bad. And for fuck's sake, nobody has been able to explain why a censure motion is bad even in the short term. Bush is phenomenally unpopular, especially with independents, and nearly half the country wants him impeached. Where's the fucking downside?
Ginger Yellow |
03.19.06 - 2:45 pm | #
I have to agree with you on your last line, Jane.
I plan to keep hammering away at Reed for his apparent whimpiness. I'm sure though that his non-support of the censure resolution is for political reasons, and if so it shows that he too may care more for party than country, just like those freak Republicans. I tell you why he doesn't have a position: I got a letter from him a few months ago about some issue I had contacted him about and on the last line he urged me to support Hillary! (Sorry if I offend anyone but she makes me want to puke.)
You would think at this point ,SOMEONE , would lock all the dem's in a room and get them all on the same fucking page!
Bustednuckles |
03.19.06 - 2:48 pm | #
You would have to be an idiot to think that Bush hasn't turned the spying on his political enemies. He has got dirt on them and they are cowering. There can be no other explianation.
Sounds plausible to me. But does that mean all Senators crooks and/or sex freaks except Feingold and Harkin?
roberto |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 2:48 pm | #
shooogarp - I don't think I mentioned Nader and I don't see the question as a Nader issue.
What I'm asking is why we jump through hoops to come up with explanations for the Democrat's *Incompetence* - they must be blackmailed, etc ... rather than question whether they share our positions on the issues that matter and then plan our strategies accordingly. I think we're very afraid of seeing the reality of a Democratic party built on Clintonesque triangulation ...
and to the children of Iraq and Iran, all that pretty geopolitican hooha won't make a bit of difference.
siun |
03.19.06 - 2:48 pm | #
Jane,
Thanx...once more you go chargin' into that there breech, jest when I needed it the most. Now, can you talk to Redd about the possibility that some folks on fdl have talked about and that is the idea of a one day accross the blogospere blitz of collecting donations of $5-$25 dollars to Feingold's PAC. Each contributor would also send and e-mail to the DCCC and DSCC informing them of the action and reminding them that every dollar goin' ta Feingold is a dollar NOT goin' ta them.
If you two women could use yer muscle with Kos, Atrios and Digby (might even try strong-armin' that old DLCer Josh Marshall) I think it might be the push that is needed ta get the Senate Democrats ta come outta the closet on this thing.
KEEP THE FAITH AND MAKE SURE YER DOORS ARE LOCKED, FOX NEWS SECURITY KNOWS WHERE YA LIVE!!!
NorskeFlamethrower |
03.19.06 - 2:50 pm | #
Suine—Yes, but even if they are republicans in disguise, these democrats want to be re-elected. Why do they work against their own interests?
LL |
03.19.06 - 2:52 pm | #
rwcole - I don't think anyone here has any intention or has even hinted at supporting a gooper. I think it's safe to say that it's pretty much out of the question.
There are a lot of views on what this party needs to behave like. The overlying fundamental problem here (IMO) is that for a country as diverse as this one to have only two political parties is really amazing. The general populace quit voting for officials a few cycles ago. More tend to vote for the lesser of two evils, or not at all. But that's for another day...
Right now, as you've previously said, we are in the minority. In-fighting isn't helping our situation, and may just cost us the 06 elections. However, and this is the important part, those congress-critters that are attacking each other are one of the biggest reasons we keep loosing. They constantly undercut their allies. Why should we support someone that constantly harms their own party's reputation? How does that help our situation?
If a lot of important Dems don't support Russ right now, I won't be surprised. But to come out and attack him, or to belittle what he is attempting is worthy of some serious scorn. For repeat offenders such as Joe, they deserve to be removed from office. I don't want us to loose in 06, but I don't believe we will EVER win if we keep electing those that would put their personal politics before the party's and most importantly, the country's.
Saying things like "premature", "not the right time", "it's too early" are just a few ticks to the negative and undercut your allies. These guys aren't so stupid that they don't know how to think before they speak. Once you get to this league, everything is calculated. What bothers me is that their instinctual calculations say "run away!" If they won't listen and get away from that, then we have to try and get them out of their seat. Doing so is the only way to rebuild the party. And man does it need it.
Zergle |
03.19.06 - 2:52 pm | #
seconding Norske's request that we push for a day (or maybe a week?) of Feingold fundraising (I'd like to see Conyers added to that since he is up for re-election and took a stand for censure and impeachment investigation before Feingold) and a mass email/fax campaign with a simple message like:
Censure = 22 ---> 52
no $ until you back Russ
siun |
03.19.06 - 2:54 pm | #
Talk of timid politicians and 'hose-downs' reminds me of this famous experiment:
A group of monkeys is put into a cage where bananas hang above a ladder. They cannot reach the bananas except by climbing the ladder.
But when a monkey climbs the ladder, a hose activates, spraying the entire group with cold water. Monkeys hate that, and soon learn to avoid the bananas altogether. The rare monkey that learns slowly, that is unafraid of the hose or determined to get the bananas anyway, is forcefully convinced of the error of it's ways by the other monkeys.
One of the monkeys is then removed from the cage and a new monkey joins the group. Naturally, it heads straight for the bananas. Anticipating another spray-down, the remaining members of the original group intimidate, or, when necessary, beat the crap out of the new monkey until it learns that the bananas are taboo.
The replacement process continues. When every member of the original 'sprayed' group is gone, the hose is removed. Although none of the monkeys in the second group know anything about the hose and how the bananas became forbidden, they dare not climb the ladder, and they eagerly enforce the restriction as other new arrivals are added to the cage.
The cycle can be broken by the introduction to the group of a very strong alpha. It takes the banana despite the group. Nothing bad happens, and the taboo is broken. It can also be broken by starvation or the additon of some mechanism that punishes the monkeys for not climbing the ladder.
If it touches the banana, it gets the hose.
BullGoose |
03.19.06 - 2:54 pm | #
Here's a radical suggestion. The dems aren't supporting censure cause they know that it's a loser 42-50 and they're ahead by 16 points in the generic ballot right now- so why should they embrace a losing cause..just a suggestion!
rwcole |
03.19.06 - 2:57 pm | #
BullGoose.
No doubt we've all heard the old story of the old bull and the young bull. We need some old bulls in the Demo. herd.
Bustednuckles |
03.19.06 - 2:58 pm | #
BullGoose - That summed it up quite nicely.
Zergle |
03.19.06 - 2:58 pm | #
LL - they know that their incumbancy is likely to keep their own seats safe - they do not expect to be defeated (and they are realistic in this) so they do not need to worry. Speaking up is only an issue if you actually want to take back the house and senate and so need new seats and nationalizing the election.
siun |
03.19.06 - 3:00 pm | #
rwcole - what are the numbers on popularity of the democratic party? weren't they tanking?
while respondents may wish the Repubs were out, the issue is how many will go out during a nonpresidential year and vote for a Dem
siun |
03.19.06 - 3:02 pm | #
rwcole - because it all comes down to this:
It's the right thing to do. That's what all of this is about. We know the president broke the law. It's really not debatable. So you do what you swore to do and protect the constitution. It's the positioning you are suggesting that turns off the voters and causes the Dems to lose elections year after year. I don't want to vote for someone that won't do their job when the polls say it might not be politically viable. If it's the right thing (right as moral and constitutional) then they will get the support they deserve.
Love the post! Anyone here a Bow Wow Wow fan? Louis Quatorze:
When he comes bursting thru that door,
mama leaps and hits the floor
Calling himself Louis Quatorze,
he's so young and dangerous
Oh I love it when he says so seriously
With his gun in my back,
"Honey, close your eyes and think of England"
Think of England? I know, Regina Victoria.
This seems to be the new Bush doctrine: "Think of Crawford."
snark from a momentary passer-by....
immanentize |
03.19.06 - 3:03 pm | #
The lie about "hurting the democrats" provides the cover for vote fraud -- the repugs (just as in 2004) proclaim they have an "energized base that turns out to vote in improbable to impossible numbers. They say the "exit polls" are wrong cuz they missed the "rally" voters.
Essentially, they admit that they have a minority of support, but claim that non-verifiable electronic vote counts on machines owned by republican interests show that their supporters turn up in such great numbers.
It is a lie that serves to distract us from the real issue -- WHY IS AMERICA CLAIMING TO BE A BEACON OF DEMOCRACY AND WE DO NOT HAVE FAIR, FREE, OPEN, AND VERIFIABLE ELECTIONS!!!
Anonymous |
03.19.06 - 3:04 pm | #
Even if their own seats are safe, I still don't see why the dems need to actively undermine Feingold (except maybe to keep an uppity guy in his place and as an example to others to keep in line, I guess). I don't think this is a losing cause. 42-50 is just the first poll and with both the dems and the media coming out against it, I think it's pretty remarkable that 42 percent see beyond the bullshit. It wouldn't take much education to reverse those numbers and excite the base.
LL |
03.19.06 - 3:06 pm | #
Anonymous | 03.19.06 - 3:04 pm | #
You have a good point. I for one want a paper ballot. Boy, do the election officals in my state get pissed when you ask for a paper ballot/trail.
Their reply to how I can be sure my vote was recorded correctly: "Trust us."
Well remember, clinton actually won in 1994 and then put his wife in charge of creating a plan -- it was the democrats, more than the republicans, that shot it down.
Reasonable people can question whether putting Hillary in charge after election represented a serious attempt to create a workable program or was just the start of undermining the entire effort.
The Clinton's never went back to "revisit" healthcare in a meaningful way -- despite the fact that polls show that Americans overwhelmingly support a meaningful program.
Dems have abandoned the issues that they used to actually win on -- the economic issues that challenge most working Americans.
Seeing Dems abandon Feingold is sickening, but not surprising. If Clinton had created a healthcare system that worked (current one is reaching crisis state), there would never have been a "repug revolution" in 1994.
We can thank the dems for that.
Anonymous |
03.19.06 - 3:09 pm | #
LL - when the NSA story broke, pre holidays, and W actually said "gosh, I broke the law, you gonna do something about it?" the moment was right to nail him - immediate calls for impeachment and energetic outspoken opposition would have swung the issue easily. The ground was already set with opposition to W and to the war, etc so high and with the general feel that W is not competent or trustworthy.
The Dems instead said "well, we'll get back to you after our vacation" while the WH cranked up their spin and took over leadership on the issue.
I find it hard to believe that the entire spin machine of the Dems was that inept that they missed media management 101 on that one ... so what is the explanation?
siun |
03.19.06 - 3:13 pm | #
All elections should be hand counted on paper ballots. Period. Anything less is untrustworthy.
Zergle |
03.19.06 - 3:15 pm | #
too busy polishin' their knobs.
Bustednuckles |
03.19.06 - 3:16 pm | #
-- siun | 03.19.06 - 2:34 pm wrote:
"what *evidence* do we have beyond our desire for an opposition do we have that anyone beyond Feingold and the Conyers Impeachment contingent actually oppose these policies?"
yeah, that scary thought occurs to me, too. I'd add Brabara Lee, Barbara Boxer and a few others. And then I look at the list i've made and realize that it's a list of "jews & niggers & jew feminists & ... " and i realize that this might just be the last throes of an insurgeny - here in the republic that once was the United States of America.
and then i turn on Turner Classics Movies and try to distract myself.
I continue to be disturbed by the liberal left's lack of attention to any Black politician except Obama.
siun |
03.19.06 - 3:19 pm | #
Suin, I guess that's what I'm asking. If we continue to argue that this is ineptness, misunderstanding, cowardice, etc when it is something more insidious, we'll never be successful. I just want to explore other possible explanations to what's going on.
LL |
03.19.06 - 3:19 pm | #
All the anti-Feingold idiots just don't get it. Its not about triangulating and prognosticating elections - that is exactly backwards. Its about being right, and standing up for what is right. The process is:
be on the side of what is right and the votes will follow.
trying to prognosticate the sentiment of the elctorate, i.e., the democrat's losing approach of the past 6 years, and they'll keep losing.
Feingold is right to at least do something whether it will succeed or not and whether it has any tangible impact or not. The impact is in the mids of the voters that finally see a democrat not trying to be too clever by half and instead taking a measured approach on principle in response to the administration's clearly criminal behavior.
.
pluege |
03.19.06 - 3:20 pm | #
rwcole,
Re: Kevin Phillips
Maybe yer right about Phillips...maybe he has had a come ta Jesus moment and really understands what's breathin' down all our necks here. However, his analysis is hardly novel, except where it's comin' from and Howard Zinn er John Galbreath are better sources for the critique of American capitalism and political economy.
I guess I jest won't ever trust 'im, once a fascist mouthpiece always...well, I'm not a xtian so I don't hafta be forgiving
As far as the 44-50+ numbers against censure...that is the point rw! Like Kristol said this mornin' on Fox, "censure is a winner for the Democrats as long as no one comes out and defends the program and the charge of illegality remains unchallenged."
George W. Fascist gets hung around the neck of every single politician who opposes censure when November rolls around...and now when every Republican up fer re-election is tryin ta get George ta take an extended trip ta Sri Lanka, it only makes sense ta tatoo his name to every Republican and Republicrat(Lieberman) forhead.
KEEP THE FAITH, WE KEN HANG 'EM ALL IF WE ALL HANG TAGETHER!!!
NorskeFlamethrower |
03.19.06 - 3:21 pm | #
BullGoose.
No doubt we've all heard the old story of the old bull and the young bull...
Bustednuckles | 03.19.06 - 2:58 pm | #
Actually, I hadn't, so I tried to google it, and came up with all sorts of bull stories, all of which make sense. I'm guessing you meant the one about the young bull that wants to rush down the hill to get the cow, and the wise old bull with a better plan.
But just for fun...
One day, there was an old bull and a young bull talking to each other in the pasture. The young bull looked at the older bull and asked, “Did you hear the farmer is getting another bull?”
This upset the older bull. “Before you got here, I had 120 cows to keep me happy. Then I had to give you 50. Well I am not giving up any more of my cows!”
The younger one thought a minute. “Well, I only have 50 and he wants me to give some up. Forget it.”
Just then the farmer pulled up and unloaded the biggest, meanest and ugliest bull ever created. Frightened, the older bull said, “Well at my age I only need a few cows, so I guess he can have as many as he wants.”
The younger one started stomping and snorting and puffing out his chest. The old bull looked at him in amazement. “Are you nuts? A few cows aren’t worth your life.”
“Cows, hell,” the younger one shouted, “he can have all the cows he wants. I just want to make sure he knows I’m not one of them.” -- James Lui-Yee
I guess they think Feingold's gonna fuck 'em.
BullGoose |
03.19.06 - 3:23 pm | #
rwcole - This is not an isolated instance of the Dems backing down. With the exception of the Ports flap where the republican congress was with them, they have been afraid to take on Bush on anything to do with terrorism or the Iraq war.
On substance of censure, Feingold is correct. I assume you believe that too.
On politics you have to make the judgement of whether this helps the Dems or hurts them. My belief is that, though the Republicans are as we speak using this issue to try to juice up their base, it won't work for long and that the true beneficiaries of this will be all Dems that back Feingolds position because it is a principled stance and because it demonstrates political courage. Those are good things.
I can understand why some good Dems see it the other way but I think they are wrong.
Alvord |
03.19.06 - 3:25 pm | #
OH BOY! Gore is on CSPAN at 5:30CT!!!
Apparently a speech from the 13th.
Zergle |
03.19.06 - 3:26 pm | #
pluege: "be on the side of what is right and the votes will follow.
y'know, i don't think i believe that, anymore. but now i believe, more than ever, that it shouldn't matter. as much as i understand that feingold and murtha and conyers are deftly experienced politicians, i choose to be convinced that they are saying and doing these things simply because they are the right things to say and do. The only thing worse than living in a fascist state is living in a fascist state without knowing it, let alone complaining about it.
DeeLuzon |
03.19.06 - 3:27 pm | #
BullGoose,
You are correct, that is the story I was referring to. My point being; We need some older,more experienced players to decide that they are going to mosey down the hill and fuck 'em all.
Slow,determined,with a sense of purpose and experience. Not bothered by other's plans or expectations.
(IMO)
Bustednuckles |
03.19.06 - 3:30 pm | #
tomorrow is monday.....
and since you-all have more political sense in your finger nail than i've had in my entire life... i'm asking for your advice.
last week, i called both my senators each and every day to ask for their support of the censure resolution. tomorrow morning i start calling again.... what approach to you suggest i take this week? my senators are kerry and kennedy.
i'm leaning towards being a little more forceful this week. but, the goal isn't to make me feel better - the goal is to get them to defend the constitution.
what's your plan for tomorrow? what's your advice for me?
If election fraud is not addressed neither 2006 nor 2008 matter that much.
Everythingseemssoneat |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 3:34 pm | #
42% of americans support censure. 50% oppose it.
not sure the point you were taking -- the actual percentages mean nothing at this time other than there is a pretty large group that supports it...
and this is without any rational national dialog
and without any meaningful support
Just imagine what those numbers would look like if there was some real dialog and support within the democratic party!
Anonymous |
03.19.06 - 3:34 pm | #
From Juan Cole: "The New York Times reveals that Rumsfeld's torture team, Task Force 6-26, was so notorious that even the CIA wanted nothing to do with it! Current Attorney General Albert Gonzales helped authorize this torture. "
The Anti-Christ? Jesus, these guys are beyond criminal. They are psychopathic.
nlacey |
03.19.06 - 3:36 pm | #
LL - I think that is a critical question. If our goal is to defeat fascism here at home, then we better sort out what is really going on - not simply to maintain the status quo. If the Dems are just weak and need us to harass them into standing up - then we have a strategy (and it's one I'm participating in daily) but if they are in agreement with the Repubs on the key issues - then we better start organizing an opposition.
And I think we have to ask the question rather than assume we know the answer.
siun |
03.19.06 - 3:36 pm | #
Then why does his defense team appear to be preparing a defense based on Libby not being the first to have spilled the beans about Plame to reporters?
Either to:
1. get the case thrown out on "national security/executive priviledge" issues
2. send a shot across the bow that he will not be the "fall-guy"
Anonymous |
03.19.06 - 3:37 pm | #
selise,
Take no prisoners with the Kerry and Kennedy staffs...be indignant and let 'em know yer surprised and pissed that they are equivocating on this.
KEEP THE FAITH, THEY DON'T HAVE ALL OUR MONEY YET!!!
NorskeFlamethrower |
03.19.06 - 3:39 pm | #
"Can someone explain to me how forcing the Republicans to rally around an unpopular President just as they're trying to distance themselves from him is going to hurt the Democrats?"
Its the "energized base" meme -- remember, neither you, me, or anyone else can actually verify the "results" of US elections anymore.
selise - I call each day and remind them that I will not give money to, vote for or work for any candidate who does not support censure.
Another option would be to ask when the senator will have a town hall or similar meeting during this break and then attend and ask the question in person.
siun |
03.19.06 - 3:42 pm | #
How is changing the law going to deal with the problem of a President who doesn't think he has to obey the law?
that's the heart of it. look at mcCain's torture bill. Bush's signing statement was essentially '...but only if a feel like it.'
yeah, pass a million new laws. at least it'll keep george occupied breaking them.
senate democrats... i'm embarrassed for them and i don't want to be. i'm busy being furious.
isis2 |
03.19.06 - 3:43 pm | #
If it touches the banana, it gets the hose.
Is this fable about Monica and the Clenis?
Anonymous |
03.19.06 - 3:44 pm | #
Too much triangulating and motive divining going on with this censure. Seems to distract from the "Crooked President" thingie.
Maybe that's the point.
Everyone repeat after me:
"The President broke the law. He admits it. He broke the law yesterday, today and probably will again tomorrow."
Oilfieldguy |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 3:45 pm | #
Here's a radical suggestion. The dems aren't supporting censure cause they know that it's a loser 42-50 and they're ahead by 16 points in the generic ballot right now- so why should they embrace a losing cause..just a suggestion!
Resaonable suggestions, so I don't mean this to sound snarky.
Are you saying that the publics attitudes are fully formed and "set in stone"?
I think we all know the answer to that one -- the repugs are catapulting the meme about "this is good for us" because they know that publics perception will change.
Again, i ask, what would these numbers look like if the Dems responsibly addressed the issues and perhaps some repugs even came along.
Anonymous |
03.19.06 - 3:46 pm | #
nlacey -- I'll read that, hadn't seen that.
jane hamsher |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 3:48 pm | #
Im wondering if we need to start telling these Dems that we would rather see a moderate republican president who will at least stop the radical republican agenda than a spineless Democrat who will go out of their way to please the loudest Republican bullies.
Because the fact is, alot of Americans, even folks I've spoken to here in good ol' California, whether or not they are right that a moderate Repub would be preferable, really do feel that way.
Splash |
03.19.06 - 3:49 pm | #
Suin, I agree with you completely. Asking the question is the first step. If the Dems' response doesn't make sense, perhaps our assumptions are wrong. So then, how do we get the answer? I'm not looking for conspiracy theories, just for practical ways to change what is going on and I think examining those assumptions is a good start.
LL |
03.19.06 - 3:52 pm | #
nlacey - if you haven't seen this, may I recomment Robert Fisk's latest:
Why support a censure resolution that will clearly fail? It's the old classic, "lose the battle and win the war."
Those who vote in favor of a radioactive outlaw regime should be more than happy to have that vote hung around their necks while campaigning for the midterms.
Oilfieldguy |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 3:53 pm | #
Feingold/Truth 08!
No other Dem comes close to the Truth for the V.P. slot.
The Truth 2006!
The Truth 2008!
shooogarp |
03.19.06 - 3:53 pm | #
All elections should be hand counted on paper ballots.
Exactly, and if they really believed these issues would "energize" their base, the repugs would want hand-counted (or at least verifiable) vote tallies too. After all, proclaiming you have a "mandate" because of an extrodinairy turnout would be easier if you could actually prove that it happened.
This is just a meme to provide distraction and cover -- the fact that those that benefit refuse to discuss the merits of verifiable elections speaks loudly to their motives.
Remember, these people proclaim to "create" their own realities...
Anonymous |
03.19.06 - 3:54 pm | #
I almost hate to ask, but does anyone know of any current plans to monitor/poll election sites during the 2006 elections to perhaps detect any discrepancies?
shooogarp |
03.19.06 - 3:57 pm | #
Not that it does any good after the fact. I have heard rumblings of discrepancies from 2004. Any links someone can forward to me?
shooogarp |
03.19.06 - 3:58 pm | #
If it touches the banana, it gets the hose.
Is this fable about...
Anonymous | 03.19.06 - 3:44 pm | #
It's from 'The Silence Of The Lambs' -- "It puts the lotion in the basket, or it gets the hose."
BullGoose |
03.19.06 - 3:59 pm | #
Zergle: thanks for the heads up re al gore on c-span... i'm watching/listening now (and ripping an mp3). it's inspiring - he's made a lot of mistakes... but he's picked himself up, learned from them - and he isn't giving up on our country... and neither am i.
suin & NorskeFlamethrower: thanks for the kerry/kennedy calling suggestions... i'm going to keep at it.
selise |
03.19.06 - 4:02 pm | #
"neurophius - take a look at this post for explanation:"
Thanks, Zergle. I haven't been able to keep up with all the comments lately.
neurophius |
03.19.06 - 4:05 pm | #
shooogarp
no links but you can probably goooogle BlackBox.Org and BradsBlog
They both watch this stuff pretty close.
Oilfieldguy |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 4:06 pm | #
The only way the NSA spyin gets into the light of day is by forcin a vote on censure...WAKE UP FOLKS, DON'TCHA GET IT??!!
Censure is a win-win for Democrats and the Demcratic Party especially before the primaries.
KEEP THE FAITH AND FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE DON'T BE AFRAID TA FIRE!!
NorskeFlamethrower |
03.19.06 - 4:06 pm | #
sorry about the repeat post.
Zergle, I just saw your mention of the Gore speech on CNN, and tuned in. What did I miss in the first 25 minutes--was it good?
neurophius |
03.19.06 - 4:06 pm | #
I almost hate to ask, but does anyone know of any current plans to monitor/poll election sites during the 2006 elections to perhaps detect any discrepancies?
I think Jimmy Carter stated that his national, well-respected group will not. America's elections are not even held to the standard of the rest of the world's "banana-republics"
In other words, its so bad, they won't get involved.
Anonymous |
03.19.06 - 4:18 pm | #
no links but you can probably goooogle BlackBox.Org and BradsBlog
Its bradblog - but you got the right idea. Links to everything you need, including blackbox, are there. He also posts updates and breaking news daily.
I hope none of the important people mind me providing a link outside of the usual "circle of links"
Anonymous |
03.19.06 - 4:21 pm | #
OT
Great post of an e-mail from Anthony H. Cordesman, a Senior Fellow at the Center for Strategic & International Studies at www.thewashingtonnote.com.
One of his great points in his "The Iraq War Three Years On: A Scorecard"
"Objective One: Get Rid of Iraqi WMD Threat: Happened before the war. The main stated objective of the war was pointless."
Oh. And Cordesman was/is an Iraq war supporter! How does his brain handle the incongruence!
shooogarp |
03.19.06 - 4:26 pm | #
shooogarp (3/19/06 2:33)--
Unfortunately, I have to agree. My God, is there really no stopping these assholes?
If they have "the dirt" on every opposition member which, no doubt, they do, is there ANY HOPE for us at all?
Is Bush really THAT goddamn unstoppable?
The only thing keeping millions of Americans from charging the streets, howling for Bushco's arrest is the draft. As long as the draft is not brought back, most Americans will continue about our simple lives, caring only about the next American Idol contestant to be voted off.
Naturally, Bushco avoids the draft, instead compiling "the dirt" on political opponents who would otherwise hold them to account. Ordinary citizens can't do it; elected officials must. Bush has "the dirt" on ALL of these elected officials, courtesy of the NSA.
Let's not kid ourselves. Everyone here, deep down, knows goddamn well he's doing it. THAT's why the Dems are cowering, sniveling wimps. THAT's why this criminal is going to get away with whatever the hell he wants to.
I'm willing to bet money that Bush will find a way to cancel the '08 elections. "But that's illegal!" everyone tells me. I can't help but ask, though, when the hell has this asshole ever cared about what was legal? When has the law ever applied to him?
Thers is no stopping him. We are all fucked.
Someone PLEASE present me with evidence that I am just being paranoid? I'd LOVE to be proven wrong. I just have this sinking feeling that this criminal administration and its numbnut front man are bulletproof.
avenging_angel |
03.19.06 - 4:26 pm | #
Thanks for the links FDLers!
shooogarp |
03.19.06 - 4:28 pm | #
What is the process by which international election observers are sent to countries with "emerging democracies" and dubious election practices? Is this something that the UN does? Or is there some other ways to get observers in?
jlr |
03.19.06 - 4:29 pm | #
Exactly! Thank you Jane (and Jamison Foser and Media Matters)!!!
With a fist in the air in the land of hypocrisy . . . . !
JC |
03.19.06 - 4:31 pm | #
Avenging Angel - they don't have to have to have dirt on every single elected official. They are quite prepared to make shit up.
jlr |
03.19.06 - 4:32 pm | #
Wouldn't it be great to get the U.N. to monitor our elections! Let's figure out how to do this!
shooogarp |
03.19.06 - 4:33 pm | #
Oh. I forgot. The U.N. Election Monitoring Team has been devoured by John Bolton's mustache.
shooogarp |
03.19.06 - 4:36 pm | #
Wouldn't it be great to get the U.N. to monitor our elections!
They won't -- too much of a dog and pony show. In order to have UN observers, you need to meet minimum standards for open, fair, and free elections.
US does not meet these standards -- THIS IS NOT A JOKE -- THIS IS WHAT THE OFFICIAL POSITION IS!
Anonymous |
03.19.06 - 4:36 pm | #
Well, considering the US's thugish presence on the UN it doesn't seem too likely that this is the route to go. But maybe there is some other international organization who could?
jlr |
03.19.06 - 4:36 pm | #
Anonymous | 03.19.06 - 4:36 pm |
"US does not meet these standards."
Now I find this very interesting - what are the standards? Could you point me to some documentation on this and the UN position re: monitoring US elections?
I think I want to cry...
shooogarp |
03.19.06 - 4:46 pm | #
neurophius: gore was very good... here's a snippet, "the willingness and ability of members of congress to live up to their oaths of office, to protect and defend the constitution, is intimately related to the most important safe guard of what america is all about."
c-span will repeat at 9:30pm est.
selise |
03.19.06 - 4:54 pm | #
Oh. And Cordesman was/is an Iraq war supporter! How does his brain handle the incongruence!
shooogarp | 03.19.06 - 4:26 pm | #
It's called "learning." Something the preznit does not seem to be able to do.
neurophius |
03.19.06 - 5:02 pm | #
Avenging Angel--re: cancellation of election, it's all written there in FEMA, it can be done, sorry, in the interests of national security. Oh, and BTW, according to what Bush did prior to 9/11/01, somewhere around 6/01, Cheney is in charge of FEMA.
check it out
And why won't the Dems speak up? Remember the anthrax letters? Remember Paul Wellstone?
Old Sow |
03.19.06 - 5:06 pm | #
"And why won't the Dems speak up? Remember the anthrax letters? Remember Paul Wellstone?"
Old Sow, I do not want to believe that you are correct, but I shudder to think that maybe you are.
neurophius |
03.19.06 - 5:07 pm | #
Dems 2005 = J. Wellington Wimpy, 1934
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
Goebbels Goebbels Goebbels |
03.19.06 - 5:13 pm | #
LOL I tried to go to "fdl.com" and got a tourism promotion site for Fon Du Lac, Wisconsin. Thought maybe Jane and Redd had decided to move there so Feingold could be their senator.
neurophius |
03.19.06 - 5:17 pm | #
Blame Bill Clinton for all this....he was the first Republican-lite Dem, and he put the Dems in this mentality of kissing the GOP ass....
Lancelot of the Lake |
03.19.06 - 5:25 pm | #
I have to agree with you on your last line, Jane.
I plan to keep hammering away at Reed for his apparent whimpiness. I'm sure though that his non-support of the censure resolution is for political reasons, and if so it shows that he too may care more for party than country, just like those freak Republicans. I tell you why he doesn't have a position: I got a letter from him a few months ago about some issue I had contacted him about and on the last line he urged me to support Hillary! (Sorry if I offend anyone but she makes me want to puke.)
Passed NAFTA, GATT, "Defense" of Marriage Act, bombed Iraq, bombed Kosovo (pre-emptive war), welfare reform...
Everytime the GOP screamed, Clinton did whatever they wanted, constantly undermining the Democrats in the process (and the country)....
Lancelot of the Lake |
03.19.06 - 5:27 pm | #
Old Sow | 03.19.06 - 5:06 pm - "...re: cancellation of election, it's all written there in FEMA, it can be done, sorry, in the interests of national security."
Do you have a United States Code citation or the name of a federal statute that explicitly permits suspension of elections?
Stephen Parrish, CPA |
03.19.06 - 5:28 pm | #
He almost did again with the Dubai deal. The Financial Times of London had an article on how Bill was advising Dubai on how to get the American people for the deal, until his wife came out against the deal (rightly so). It would have helped out the GOP if he could have said something...
My point is that Feingold is really principled on this, and he's showing leadership. He's not putting his finger to the wind with constant focus group polling like the Clintonian Dems. Clinton and his like wouldn't take a dump without a pollster saying it was OK...
Lancelot of the Lake |
03.19.06 - 5:29 pm | #
rude pundit put it brilliantly: "why not punish the rapist instead of making rape legal?"
stagemom |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 5:45 pm | #
With this President - why not punish the theif instead of making theft legal.
Mary |
03.19.06 - 6:01 pm | #
"Oh. I forgot. The U.N. Election Monitoring Team has been devoured by John Bolton's mustache."--shooogarp
Do not underestimate the awesome power of John Bolton's mustache (JBM), which rules supreme from an underground lair on the lower east side of Manhattan!
When JBM is ready to strike on a grand scale, you shall all feel his wrath!
Elections, shmelection. The only purpose of these elections was to take down the names and addresses of Democrat voters, if you must know.
Pray that JBM will grant you a mercifully quick death.
cadmium red |
Homepage |
03.19.06 - 6:06 pm | #
that fact that Feingold is doing something (whether sufficient or not) brings into stark contrast all the machinations the democrats undertake to acheive absolutely nothing.
.
pluege |
03.19.06 - 6:16 pm | #
The idea that somehow this will hurt the Democrats in the 2006 election is beyond witless.
It's so far beyond witless as to make one concerned about motives.
The 06 race will be run by freshman candidates, or candidates gerrymandered out, against Washington. These guys are gonna run as outsiders, running against the corrupt cash machine that has left us trapped in a failed war. Illegal wiretaps is just one more arrow in the quiver.
If you wanna talk about the effect on 08 of Feingold's actions, and his forcing a tough vote on democratic presidential hopefuls in the Senate, well go ahead. But this unequivocally a good issue for democrats challenging incumbent (or rapidly retiring) republican members.
jayackroyd |
03.19.06 - 6:28 pm | #
I must say Jane, you get better and better. There's not much room left for improvement!
I didn't start out such a big fan as some of your issues did not excite me, but the more I read what you write, the more excited I get about your abilities.
You have joined that small circle of my "must reads" and I also love your humor, both subtle and overt, and your passion.
Eyes Wide Open |
03.19.06 - 6:42 pm | #
Phoenix Woman: You write of "blistering, Murtha-esque terms today?" Shirley, you jest.
Murtha is one of the biggest cowards out there. Do I have to wait as long for people to see that as I did for Democrats to see what cowardly weasles most Democrats are?
Murtha was asked about the censure motion and he pooh poohed it and said it was not necessary.
Sure, let's get back to his one valid issue, withdrawal from Iraq, so he can ride that into a seat of power, collecting some money on the ride.
He is an authoritarian monster, an apologist for all the lawless policies and power elite cushy comfort seats. He's actually quite dangerous, as he gets the support of people who would jump out a window before supporting all that he really stands for.
AVOID AT ALL COSTS. Nancy Pelosi is a pussycat compared to Murtha.
Feingold is the only principled person of either party in Washington. Some are better than others, but nobody has consistently acted as courageously and with such vision. He doesn't have to have a bus mow him down before he sees it coming.
If he gets the Democratic nod, I really hope he finds some "gentleman politician" to run as his VP and not just another coward who can, the Dems will argue to him, supply some votes.
I just wish someone like Paul Craig Roberts would be the Republican candidate. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. He'd throw the bastards from both parties out so fast they wouldn't know what hit them.
You all must realize that if anyone other than Feingold gets the nomination, that is simply not going to happen.
And it's not going to be easy for even Feingold to do that.
The beauty of someone like Paul Craig Roberts is that he's on record, passionately, as to each and every one of his positions.
Naturally, PCR, a Republican, is the one who has been arguing for Bush's impeachment most loudly and for years. He also can see a bus which is headed in his direction.
But he's that rarity. A principled human being. He has less than zero chance of ever being chosen as dogcatcher by the Republican Party.
So that leaves Feingold.
Eyes Wide Open |
03.19.06 - 7:06 pm | #
"Will True Conservatives give up their principles, or abandon the GOP?"
Honey, we've already made that choice. "True" conservatives, meaning Goldwater Republicans, turned on Bushco way before any of your Democratic politicians did.
You just don't hear about us, because we are not the ones talking on TV and writing columns.
Both Goldwater and Reagan would have hated this Federalist Society crowd with its phony allegiance to the Constitution but its willingness to put up with those who now want to trash it.
Eyes Wide Open |
03.19.06 - 7:22 pm | #
There are 3 posts above (later than) this one at www.firedoglake.com
neurophius |
03.19.06 - 8:23 pm | #
I wonder if someday we'll ex-hume Brit Hume and finally find out what "the living dead" really means.
Because everything indicates that Brit Hume is just a Republican Zombie. And if anyone is with him while he's in his Republican Zombie state, he'll eat their brains.
Hey, it's just a "living dead" urge to replace their brain, that some other Zombie ate.
In Brit Hume's case, Karl Rove, the Zombie-Master, ate his brain.
The Oracle |
03.19.06 - 8:47 pm | #
" There are 3 posts above (later than) this one at www.firedoglake.com
neurophius | 03.19.06 - 8:23 pm | #"
But almost nobody commenting--like here, lately. Have I fallen into an EPU of heretofore unheard of dimensions?
neurophius |
03.19.06 - 8:52 pm | #
This site is a black hole. I refreshed firedoglake.blogspot and found one with lots of comments during the same time period this one covers. EPU to the Nth Degree. Abandon all hope you who linger here.
neurophius |
03.19.06 - 9:10 pm | #
" Changing the FISA law is the way to address Bush's overreach"
When you are living with a drunk the answer is to go buy him a liquor store?
emel |
03.19.06 - 10:31 pm | #
Anyone who is claiming that Feingold's actions as of late are fueled by a presidential bid in 08 don't know Russ. He doesn't play politics he plays conscience. He is doing this because it is the right thing to do. Whether it helps the repugs or not is irrelevant. Here is a man with strong moral character and the people refusing to stand with him are showing their true colors....yellow!
DKarma |
03.19.06 - 10:44 pm | #
Rock on Jane. Not a politician at all, I understood the strategy of forcing Republicans to hug Bush as his numbers tanked. Why is that hard to get? You encapsulated my reaction better than I could. And when it takes Bill Kristol to say it, the Democrats need a transplant.
Your discussion of marketing is perfect. I think their is a self-reinforcing cycle illustrated in this. Buying into the "Dems are shrill" message, Dems want to appear fair-minded. They only method that is recognized in the incredibly narrow rhetorical universe of political media today is to accept the criticisms of the other side. But as you say, no matter what happens, Republicans say it reflects badly on Dems. So to counteract the image that results from the "no matter what, Dems suck" message, to try and show they do not suck, they leap to say, yes on some issues at some times in certain ways some of us DO suck.
Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.
I don't recall who put the numbers up on censure, I did not see it corrected, but the poll I saw was a small plurality in favor of censure and Froomkin's as always wonderful column the other day said if you combined the figures for pro-censure and pro-impeachment (which are overlapping but different data sets) you get 51% in favor of either censure or impeachment. That is a great context to start talking censure and pressuring Republicans to either take to the ramparts on behalf of Bush or let the man squirm and take their lumps from the true-believers.
There is NO downside to standing up for principle. And there is NO downside to this strategy either.
The beautiful town of Belfast on the coast of Maine wrote the UN prior to the '04 election for monitors. I've read that lack of federal guidelines for each state is a hindrance. I read Bradblog on a regular basis. Great things are happening with lawsuits and testing machines but it just isn't fast enough. California and N.C. were willing to break the law to get diebold or similiar machines in. Fla. is really coming apart . The election supervisor for Leon county refused to have diebold in his county...so the other vendors wouldn't sell to him. (Might get checked) Jeb wanted to fire the election supervisor for doing his job. Good story at Bradblog
molly |
Homepage |
03.21.06 - 3:26 pm | #
Although I like your article... if you really want to ***PLAY STRATEGERY*** check out: http://stra.tegery.com.
It's an online RISK-style board game, but very cool and very good.
It has a variety of different options that change up the original gameplay, including in-game "armaments," capitols, and hideouts. You can play multiple games with multiple people at the same time. The game's also played in turns so you can play in 5 min each day with your morning coffee.
Most people love it once they start playing!
Johnny |
02.02.09 - 10:51 pm | #
