Comments Lounge
Wow! I like the post, footnotes, and that is a great statue. I have thought about playgroups, but feared them vaguely. Now I can fear them more specifically.
First off, you're much thinner than Despair. I couldn't say whether you ordinarily hold rats, though.
Second, I'm really hoping that Part II of the story is about a new playgroup that includes Alpha because she didn't end up moving to Jersey. Dr. Phil would totally kick her ass for willingly entering into an untenable situation and then whining about it.
Third, I actually met some cool people through an overpriced playgroup dealie. I don't think we ever addressed valve issues. So playgroups need not be feared in the aggregate. Though an overpriced baby-music class we went to was filled with dreadful, well-groomed Lincoln Park SUV broads who had no business wearing such nice, crisp outfits when traveling with people who spit up for a hobby. They were such an insular and exclusive group. Clearly, the lesson here is to dump any playgroup that irks you and look for a better alternative (hmm, cocktails are sounding good).
The punctuation-outside-the-quotation-marks thing is a British thing as well.
For me, it was way too much Enid Blyton as a child, followed by four years of university in Canada, that still has me occasionally writing about "cheques" and standing "on line" or "in a queue". 
Have to feel very sorry for Alpha's kids when they realize that Daddy not only doesn't give a shit about them, but would pretty much put them out on an ice floe* without a second thought.
*Now you have me paranoid about my spelling. I think this is correct.
Personally, I've never had any valve problems either. Go figure.
Wow, so much to comment on, as usual. I am terrified of playgroups because if I want to be ostracized, I can go to work (or just think back to prep school, *shudder*). I did a Mommy & Me thing for a few weeks after Jake was born, but quit when the only woman who returned my "hi" admitted that she was in her prepregnancy jeans within a week of delivering. Bitch.
And the Alpha thing? Thank you SO much for raising children with a man in the house who couldn't give two shits whether they lived or died. I'm quite sure they'll be able to have healthy relationships someday, after, oh, about 15 years of inpatient therapy.
Yeah, Amy, definitely dump any irksome playgroup. Playgroups are mostly for the moms' benefit, anyway, particularly when the kids are under two. I'm such a geek, I'd need to find a group of Geekmoms to hang out with, and we seem to be few and far between. Hello, Internet!
I could go on for days and days about Alpha and her husband. There is so much blame there to pass around there, it hardly seems right that it only get divvied up between two people. I never met J, and never wanted to. Alpha was the biggest control freak I'd ever met, so I kind of see why a man who would relinquish all domestic control would appeal to her. Still, my god.
De-lurking since I'm a geek who's currently staying at home with my seven month old son. Bored and also very, very tired. I'm wondering if Bloody Marys in the breast milk would get the kid to take a nap?
I enjoy your blog immensely, it's great to read about a family I can relate to.
I lost my sixth grade spelling bee because I spelled color C-0-L-O-U-R, because I was reading the Thomas Covenant books at the time and they're English.
I went to the judges with my copy of the book (which I had to get from between the covers of my science textbook, natch?), but they pointed out that while it might be good enough for a book, it wasn't good enough for the dictionary and I could suck an egg.
Joel went on to win the regionals and he placed in the State spelling bee. And he was my friend, so I had to act all nice.
And, you know, the judges were right, actually.
But still....
Damn you Joel R!!! Damn You!!!
--FD
[Google Wangle: Orthodox Jewish Father]
Oh, the humanity.
Flea, honey, you come on out and see me. We don't do playgroup, we do Mom's night out. And trust me, there are g&t's. Oh yes, there are g&t's.
That statue reminds me of Brando.
Very fascinating story of Alpha's life. It never hurts to know of people who are more fucked up than me.
Candace -- Not only would it help the kid nap, think of all the vitamin C in the tomato juice -- that goes straight into the breast milk! It's a health food! Go for it!
Did Alpha ever say *why* she wanted to be married to this man?
See, you've sucked me in . . .
Don't like the fucking valve? Pull it out. Better yet, buy the cheapo cups without valves. See how easy that was? Problem solved.
Flea, you'd love my Wednesday playgroup. The weekly morning sessions involve caffeine and food. The monthly afternoon sessions involve wine and food. The semi-monthly moms-night-out sessions involve booze, food, and babies home with daddies, straight up.
Frum Dad, how many books did it take you to realize that all the Thomas Covenants are the same book over and over? Ugh.
Sarahlynn - yes, but that's the _point_ of the TC books.
Um..nevermind. I've had this flamewar before, and I never ended up convincing anyone...
Has anyone ever tried to start a mommy-baby playgroup? I'm debating it, but I'm terrified that if I put some stipulation on it like "Must read one book with more text than pictures a week" that no one would come. And since I'm pregnant currently, I'd rather have a caffinated playgroup than one where I can drink hooch.
And just to clarify, I read while I'm pulling the wagon, while I stir food on the stove and if I could read while driving I probably would. Fortunately my daughter is more mentally active than physically agile, so I don't have to worry about her climbing the cupboards or swinging from the ceiling fan.
Eh, I had the valve problem. My solution - teach the child to drink from a straw. Which she likes and now won't take a sippy cup at all. Not worth 45 minutes of debate, either.
Re Alpha's marriage and permission: my mother had to have my dad's permission to get a tubal after 6 miscarriages and 1 stillbirth (and me). Of course, that was 35 years ago.
Re Thomas Covenant: I don't like those books particularly, but I do like (and am re-reading) the Mordant's Need series by the same writer.
And gods, I'd love to have a literate playgroup. If I have to listen to one more comment about the Shapel show (am I even spelling that right? I hate network TV) I'm going to scream. On the other hand, our playgroup meets in cool places, like the Children's Museaum in portsmouth.
in my neck of the woods, they tell me that the title of your post is shorthand for "insanity."
i stopped in your store once and bought a book on femmes. i still haven't made up my mind about any of that yet, but i am an ardent fan of the blog, and will get back to the store one day and try not to seem like a psycho freak in person.
Maybe Alpha and her husband should have explored the S and M in their fantasy and sex life rather than involving children and pets. I loved and related to your description of being the black hole of the David Lynch play group.
FrumDad, I lost a spelling bee in 4th grade to a big jerk, so I didn't have to be nice. I focused so much of my rage at him that I can't even remember which word I spelled incorrectly.
KT, Chappelle's Show is not on network television, it's on Comedy Central, and sometimes it's really funny.
I never joined any playgroups because I joined an internet mailing list of women who were all due at the same time, and we're still together after 8 years.
I don't feel sorry for Alpha at all, but her poor kids. Jayzus.
As a New Yorker, I have to say, if the mommies were that concerned about must-see TV and mentioned *that* in my presence around that time, there's a good chance there would be fewer mothers than children in that play group.
Reading about all these interludes in familial domestic life makes me understand why my mother adopted to cocktail hour so well and so early in her life. Cheers.
If a doctor told me I need my wife's permission to get a vasectomy I'd punch a hole in his wall.
This guy is a dick. Surely you've met dicks like this before. You can't sling a dead cat in Boulder without hitting a dick like this (as appealing as this mental image is...)
When it's time to sling something, why is it always a dead cat?
Wow--I have long suspected that many women make this implicit bargain (and more in Chicago than elsewhere, but I could be wrong about all of this), but an account of someone who explicitly made the bargain is pretty amazing. I still don't understand why, I have to say--I cannot understand why either party would agree to this. Can anyone enlighten me? Anyone?
FD--
Just because the dictionary the judges were using was woefully INCOMPLETE doesn't mean you were wrong. Clearly, the final authority on any spelling of anything in English is the OED, and it's got both variations of "colour/color" in it. Hell, even American dictionaries of dubious quality usually have "colour" in them, listed as "Brit. var. of 'color'."
In addition, any adult who's ever read anything by any British author EVER--so, if they managed to graduate high school--they've run across "colour" at least twice.
Sounds like the judges were having a spasm of wankful and entirely unnecessary patriotism, there. Fuckers.
Shit, I would've appreciated you in *my playgroups. Too bad my kids are 6 and 9 now. My philosophy with playgroups is like my philosophy with garage sales: They're both much more fun if you participate in them with a good friend and a few drinks.
Because slinging one of these colon cleansing kits is too gross.
From a selfish standpoint, I would like a few words with Alpha because I represent those teachers in her childrens' future who reap the benefits of such wonderful, nurturing homelife. It is easy to figure out which students in your classes have supportive homes, and which students don't. Sometimes you find out the hard way.
I have sought "Honourary Candian" status so that I can get the extra point on "colour" and flavour" in Scrabble.
Emma, I don't really know why, but I guess a reason could be the myth that women are "in charge" in the home, and that's a guaranteed leadership role in a world that doesn't readily offer leadership roles to women. Maybe a lot of women find this opportunity for control more appealing than slugging it out for control in the workforce? I like to think that Alpha and her husband were a rare, extreme example of this, but again, I'm just speculating.
Alice and other New Yorkers - I'm truly sorry about their callous response. It was actually worse than that, but I'll spare you the details.
I don't think my wife had to sign anything when I had my vasectomy, but we did have to sit down together with the doctor before scheduling the appointment. But then again, I was in the military then. I suppose things would be different in the civilian side of things.
As a mom of only four-legged beasties, as opposed to the two-legged variety, I was more inflamed by the treatment of their dog, but then again, I guess the dog won't have to go into therapy, but I sure wish they'd just go ahead right now and put him in a rescue program. That's just inhumane.
emma goldman, my ex-boyfriend (josh/mr. bobble) really wants a kid and i don't. he tried many times to tell me that he'd take care of it while i went to work and i wouldn't have to do a thing to help raise it.
sometimes it sounded appealing because it was a way to keep him in my life (since one of the reasons we broke up was the kid issue). but then i remembered that he'd be a really horrible father and that i'd eventually start to like the kid. plus, even if i didn't like the kid and he was a good father, it wouldn't be the same between us since he had the kid to take care of.
you're right, it's a screwed up situation. it sounds do-able in theory, when you know you want to be with the person and don't want differing views on kids to break you up. but i can't believe a person would actually practice it.
Fuckin' A, Alice. I knew flea at the time (and lived at Greenwich and Rector, around the corner from Trinity Church) and she gave them holy hell for the all of us. I promise; she's good like that.
wookie, you CAN read while driving! I do it all the time. It works best when driving a route you know well (like to and from work) that has a lot of stoplights, and if you're reading something like a magazine that has shortish articles.
Heh; for A&A, who are expecting in May, we bought The Three Martini Playdate. There was great rejoicing.
Bear in mind I never saw the two of them together, so I only heard her side of things. I never actually saw this in practice. (Although I was there one night when he called to tell her the baby woke up and was crying and she had to come home to take care of it.)
Also, I want to make sure that everyone understands that I wasn't talking about ALL women, all mothers, or all stay-at-home mothers with my previous comment.
Oh, yeah, I did kind of scorch the earth after that 9/12/01 playdate. I can't believe you remember that, Portia.
(And I read while driving sometimes. NEVER with kids in the car, but sometimes when I'm in rush hour, I do.)
Regarding reading while driving... I never am alone in the car, have no front brakes and drive in the country. So there's things like marauding cows and slow moving tractors to think of :-P
My favorite reading-while-driving experience was the time when I was in bad traffic, reading Time magazine, and saw a blurb about college-student-run sex sites - it featured a now-defunct site run by one of my best friends from middle school! It gave me a great story to tell my MCAT students who didn't like to read - you never know what you're going to find in magazines!
And Flea, good job on that punctuating inside the quotation mark. I made the same mistake for years (probably my whole life) until I took a course in which the prof loved my writing but would somehow find that mistake in EVERY assignment I turned in. What made it worse was that the prof was someone I was friends with outside of school - I swear she must have thought I was doing it just to annoy her.
I want to thank people like Alpha and her husband for continuing to create a lot of work for me (=psychologist). I've met adults that can tell stories about how their father never ever even pretended they existed but rather treated them like air. Charming.
Men such as Alpha's husband are assholes.
But you put it much more eloquently.
One time a buddy of mine and I were driving to Chicago from Springfield. We started out at 5am and since he was driving I dozed off.
I woke up with the car driving through the median at 75MPH, my buddy reading the Chicago Tribune to someone on his cell phone while eating a donut and drinking coffee at the same time.
It was almost as scary as taking the state plane into Meigs.
As I reflected last night, I came to the realization that guys like this are more than dicks or assholes, they are mentally disturbed.
I really didn't want kids either, to be honest, but to let a kid cry until mom gets home is just deranged. Can't we draft this guy or something? He definitely should not be around kids.
i'm very curious what flea's response was to the 9/12 dingbats.
I don't really remember. Just imagine what you would have said and that's probably close enough.
I can't recommend reading while driving--way too hard to see the road at the same time. However, the trauma of junior high was lessened somewhat by my habit of reading paperbacks while walking through the halls between classes. What better way for a shy geek to (a) avoid eye contact, and (b) get some good reading done?
Those of you vanquished in spelling bees, take heart. I won one in high school, and I wasn't mean to anyone about it. And then when I went to defend my title the next year, I totally spaced on "sergeant" (would you believe I said "sargent"?) and went down in ignominy. No idea who won--they were from other schools. No taunting. Only my own shame...
I read in the car all the time. No big deal. Of course, I am the passenger so it doesn't count.
Amy, I also would wander through the school halls with a book in my hand. The only problem with it was that I have a tendency to meander and would occasionally end up running into people. Usually the popular clique. Yeah. Because I didn't give them enough crap to torture me with by being fat and wearing glasses.
Oh, goody, my 20 year reunion is this year. How exciting that will be.
'Scorched earth' sums it (the response) up pretty nicely, I think.
And, okay, not while 'in motion', so technically, it's not RWD. Only at stoplights. I can do it when lp's in the car because she'd never notice; she's too busy reading.
I also read while I walk the half-mile from car to office and vice versa. And while I brush my teeth. And while I cook. And while I get dressed. And during commercials. Um, is this strange?
Today is a snow day which is bad enough....no school. But worse still is the fact that my Bloody Mary Playgroup was cancelled.
One day I'm going to write a book titled, "Those God Damn Sippy Cup Valves, and other things I use to distract myself from the incredible mind fuck motherhood is."
It's long but I don't know, it works.
You know, I know a woman who made a deal like that and it actually worked out--once the kid was born, the dad decided that while kids as a concept kind of sucked, his own kid was pretty cool.
Which isn't a reason to do it, of course. I was horrified she decided to. But I was glad that, as it turned out, she knew her husband well enough that yeah, his anxiety over the kid thing lessened once the actual kid was there.
Hell of a gamble, though.
Okay, first, I really appreciate the punctuation inside the quotation mark. This appears to be a dying art. Thanks. Really. Second, I seem to have had the same experience with playgroup and now that my kids are older, I am having it with book club -- would like to discuss further, but we aren't on the phone, so I really can't. Third, re the vasectomy/permission issue -- I really have a hysterical story to relate, that I cannot on the internet, so maybe you should call me.
ttys.
heh heh
I HATE that punctuation rule as well as the similar rule on parenthesis. I think it is awkward as general rule. A better rule is: if the punctuation modifies the phrase inside the quotes, then the punctuation should go inside as well. If it modifies the sentence as a whole, put it outside. But what do I know, I studied math in college.
So, am I the only one who noticed that September 12, 2001, was a Wednesday, not a Thursday?
Holy shit, you're right. It must have been September 13th, not the 12th, because I'm pretty sure we met on Thursdays. Sorry about that.
My problem with sippie cups is more archeological. They inevidibly get dropped kicked (different than dropkick, although that happens too)under something heavy and don't get found until they are a green-hairy-curdled version of their former selves. I now use disposable sippies and throw the whole mess away and pretend it never happened.
Also, I never met a playgroup I liked. Why would I ruin a perfectly good conversation with adults by bringing my children?
Thank you, flea, and your commentors, for helping me feel more normal, or at least less alone in feeling wierd.
i enjoyed reading your blog. I came to your blog through the search engine... I was looking for something and ended up in your blog. .. that was a good read.
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