Comments Lounge
Oh god, the poor cat. At least that takes care of the scary-kitty-incest problem.
Oh jeez. Poor Bobby has a death wish.
Oh wow. Chris never did anything quite like that, altho when he got a seashell caught in his ear, I sort of hoped that they'd suggest full amputation of his head...
So do you want the "cat swallows 13m of thread and requires $2000 surgery story" or not?
I just don't want to make you feel like I don't respect your pain, because I do, I too would have made the mortgage vs. cat decision.
Looking on the bright side of things, since you did get the nickel back, it wasn't a $2000 surgery...it was a $1999.95 surgery.
That is a harrowing tale. On the bright side, I like the way PZ thinks!
I don't have a kid-on-cat story, but I do have a dog-on-dog story about why I couldn't make the rent one month. (Big Dog and Spike having a too friendly tussel in the yard, and oops, there went Spike's eye, yikes, that was eight hundred dollars-- where was I? Oh yes-- ) This is why that little post over on Atrios the other day gripes my bones: people who, for "whatever reason" choose to lives right up to their means. Us paycheck to paycheck people who can't seem to save up a six months cushion the way we ought. What exactly was I meant to do when Big Dog bit ought Spike's eye? Say, oh, well, put the little fucker down? (Which was, btw, the option the vet gave me?)
I guess I'm not meant to have pets unless I'm independently wealthy.
Or kids, likewise.
Hi Flea,
I am speechless.....Maybe Bobby needs to take some martial arts lessons....
Oh my god! Elle reemerges! Where have you been?
I'm going to guess the super-shiny nickel is the digested one. And I'm horrified that it was returned to you.
When Christopher is more comfortable with cat care (or you are more comfortable with his cat care), you can tell him how Gui once dove into the swinging kitchen garbage can at six months old to retrieve the three feet of fleece from his beloved favorite toy. He didn't take well to it having broken, so he ate it. He ate Three. Feet. Of. Fleece. Can you say Intestinal Blockage? (Of course you can. You just spent your mortgage on it.) So Gui had the same exact scar.
I will say Gui has learned his lesson. So maybe now Bobby will fight harder if what's placed in his mouth doesn't taste like trout.
I remember the sweet, heartwarming story of parents who gave their boys kittens Christmas morning, complete with Santa Claus and magic sparkles. Remember that story, everyone? What we didn't know then was that the Bradycats would turn out to have a degree of affection for Alex and Christopher far outweighing their survival instinct.
Is brownish metal what's inside a nickel? And what happens if you leave a nickel in Coke for a couple days?
At least it wasn't a needle.
Our first cat Petra got a needle stuck in her throat for 3 months, all the while us and the vet thinking she just had some kind of illness that wouldn't go away. When he did xrays he found the needle and also an intestinal bunching - so he got the needle out and opened her up to make sure it wasn't thread binding her intestines.
$1000 later, it turns out the bunching was from scar tissue acquired when Petra was very small and hit by a car which made her lose one of her legs. Her body grew but her intestines didn't spread out because of the scar tissue. So she had $1000 worth of surgery for some scar tissue.
I will tell you that when a cat gets a needle stuck in her throat for 3 months when she is still a kitten, when she meows she sounds like Mae West.
you seriously better put that nickel toward the mortgage 
great story. thank you for posting it.
I could also let you borrow my dog, Lady, and if they try to squeeze her, well, let's just say that, I don't know that they would have any hands left to do that anymore.
yes, I reemerge from my hole....I have been reading your blog, but just not posting...ever since 24 started, I haven't been able to leave my tv for any length of time....I am totally consumed..
Oh my. You're a good mommy. And a good cat-mommy. And a great writer.
At first I thought it was the shiny one, but that brown one sure is creepy. I'm going with icky brown nickel.
And oh god, this is our nightmare with our cats. Our kids are older, but no less mischevious, and I could totally see our ten-year-old testing what the cats can swallow.
And yes, the mortgage is always second choice to the kitties.
Well, snuggle up to the mortgage payment "Bobby" this month!
Good Jesus, how scary! I'm just speechless.
When I was little, my parents wouldn't let us have a pet, so my older brother fed loose change to ME, lots of it.
My parents went with the first option. If something went wrong, they still had five other kids.
Why didn't you just put this animal to sleep, too?
Sorry--that was me posing that question.
Oh my goodness. What a horrible thing to ask.
I love the x-ray photo. Poor Bobby!
divabeq, it would be horrible if it weren't based on anything--but it is: http://buggydoo.blogspot.com/200...g-for-
past.html
The answer to your special pop quiz I believe is the super shiny one. The acids from the stomach really polish that nickel up to a high sheen.
It seems to me that the appropriate--nay, the CIVIL--thing to do to someone when you have a problem with something they've done that you feel is horrible is to tell them just after they've done it.
If that's not an available option (I, for example, sometimes go months before I realize that something someone's done bothers me), then Plan B would be to sit down with them as soon as you realize how you feel about it and tell them that you have a problem with something they've done.
Making passive-aggressive and nasty comments in public on that person's blog, however, is not an entry that occurs in the lexicon of civility.
As an uninterested bystander, it seems to me, frog, that given your clear denouncing of flea in the recent past, the right thing to do would not be to skulk around her blog, keeping avidly up with whatever you feel are her most recent sins. Running in and sniping strikes me as a move that only undermines the good person you portray yourself as over on your own blog. However, your comments here? Completely unbecoming, as all petty rages inevitably are.
oh my god, you kept the nickel.
i can only imagine the kitten-induced panic. i've had my cat for a little under a year, and if someone told me they fed her a nickel, i don't know what i'd do, but disowning would only be the first step.
maybe this changes when the nickel-feeder is your own child - i hear kitten-love is second only to love of one's own flesh and blood. but i love my cat a *lot*, so it'd take some convincing.
You were quite lucky to have found out about the cat swallowing a nickel before it hit her intestines. My dog ate an electrical cord (I don't know where or when she found it). When it stuck in her intestines, she was in quite a bit of pain. The vet now uses the x-ray in high school presentations on "strange things found in dog's stomachs." Bank of America loves me and my dogs.
Having spent wayyyyy too much money at the vet over the years, I think you made the right choice.
And frog, do you honestly not see a difference between a 65-pound dog that had started growling threateningly at the brand new baby, and a kitten who swallowed a nickel? Give me a break.
I'm surprised they didn't try to make him barf it up.
That's what they did to Muggle when he swalled string. Of course, maybe the nickel would have done more damage on the way out.
sometimes the cat-education lessons are spendy. But maybe invaluable as guilt-tripping material for the future: "remember when you almost killed Brady-Cat?".
Mr. Stang tells the tale of how his toddler-self stuck his cat in the freezer once as punishment after he bit him. He wasn't discovered for several hours but miraculously survived. I started to judge him and then remembered that when I was that age, I had a tendency of playing with the tomcat's umm.. package? Was soft and furry and the cat seemed to enjoy it quite a bit (judging by the purring). My parents were at a loss... guess that might have been a "teachable moment" they missed but OTOH they didn't want to make a big deal of it. So what was worse? Kitty freezer or kitty molester?
has christopher forgotten along with Booby? I'm just wondering how long the guilt lasts in such cases. so that I may harness it and use it wisely when my time comes.
um. bobby not booby.
hey props to alex though...i mean probbaly not the best move to make on a choking cat BUT, he remembered and drew from expereince in a highly stressful situation. I love that kid.
Frog you a-hole. Why do you even come here to read? Get a life.
OMG...what a story...I'm glad everything worked out ok. You really do have to love kids, though...they never give you a moments rest...when my oldest daughter was about 6 I looked over at her and knew she had something in her mouth and I asked her what it was and she said nothing...so I kept my eye on her and saw that it was a marble and screamed at her to take it out that moment...which she dutifully did until I turned my back and she popped it back in and in the next moment she was gasping and choking for air because she swallowed the damn thing. So I went back to the hospital I had been at the day before with my son who had broken his leg and everyone greeted me like I was an old friend...she eventually did pass the marble out...but really, I could have lived without that adventure.
I found your site through a link somewhere about a month ago, bookmarked it because I'd enjoyed it so much (I believe it was a post about what you want your sons to grow up to be) and then promptly forgot that I bookmarked it. Anyway, all this to say that I found the bookmark today and stopped by...only to be rewarded by this HILARIOUS post! I'm a master's student and had spent my day reading boring journal articles...and after so much boring reading, it was such fun to read a great story. And you told it so well! I really, truly laughed out loud! thanks for sharing! 
I can relate. My cat needs an echocardiogram, and I am thisclose to saying no, I am NOT spending $400 on a test for a 15-year-old catshe's only got a year at most anyway.
But I might end up doing it anyway. I love that cat more than my condo.
Ugh, this is what happens when you type with said cat in lap. That should have read "I am NOT spending $400 on a test for a 15-year-old cat - she's only got a year at most anyway."
Down, kitty!
Well, of course they kept the nickel! It's still worth five cents.
Poor, poor kitty, though he doesn't look too upset in that picture. Put yourself in his position: He goes to the vet for what he figures will be no more than a squeeze and a shot, and comes home minus balls and 5 cents poorer. A bad day for Bobby.
Stresch--I love that your pet is named Muggle.
Ledasmom sums it all up. Poor Bobby...his bank account's back to zero.
That is just not right. Children need to learn to be gentle to pets just as you teach them to be gentle to other people. Empathy is a very important lesson we must all teach our children.
This is an appalling story. I agree completely with No Way's comment about the importance of teaching children empathy. I have four kids, two cats, and a dog and they co-exist peacefully. Instead of just saying "no" to the children when they are rough with the animals, I show them how to be gentle through modeling and even with hand over hand assistance. This allows the kids to express their love and joy for the animals in a way that does not threaten the animals' lives.
Y'all need to lay off frog. Anyone who reads this blog regularly knows that frog and flea are friends, which completely changes the context of her comment. And flea can more than adequately defend herself, if necessary.
So which nickel was it, flea?
Hey flea, looks like you need some Troll-B-Gone. I got the good, cheap stuff from Canada. Want a case?
Eh, I knew this post would bring out the assholes. I'm not too worried about it.
So are you gonna tell us which nickel it was, or what? I'm guessing the one that now resembles a penny.
Oh! Orange was right - it's the dark, acid-eaten one.
BlueDog, they're not friends any more.
Um, I don't think the person who is pointing out that you've said in the past that animals come last on being cared for in your house is the asshole. I mean, if you had to beg for money on your blog just to pay for a water heater then wtf were you doing getting kittens? Animals aren't amusing pets to ditch when you don't want to bother with them anymore.
I'm so impressed by Frog's 'christian' behavior on your blog. You need to get over your jealousy Frog. I'm sorry I'm not writing this over there Flea, but I don't read Frog's blog anymore.
I had a few extra shekels this month so I threw them in your jar for Bobby. Not the ipod Flea, the meow, and to help buy Christopher a get out of jail card. I'm sure he didn't realize it was life threatening. Probably thought Bobby would poop it out like he (Christopher) does. I'm glad he's going to be ok.
My boy used to dress our cat up in a turtleneck shirt and a hat, and wheel him around in a little toy shopping cart, pretending he was a baby. This was a big old tomcat with balls, claws and everything, and he never, ever fought back.
I loved this story. Sorry!
Things I have not, in fact, "learned" from this comment thread:
1. how to teach children empathy
2. how to ensure one's empathetic children don't miscalculate
3. the point of using current events as an opportunity to berate someone for past decisions
But maybe I'm just dense and this does flea some good.
I'm glad Bobby came through the surgery ok. I don't imagine Christopher will forget this anytime soon!
"Probably thought Bobby would poop it out like he (Christopher) does."
Ooh, was there a story about Christopher eating loose change that I missed? I think I read all the archives, but I might have skipped one....
This reminds me of a quote I came across earlier this week:
"If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way." -Mark Twain
I suspect the same thing can be said for feeding a cat a nickel. I am glad everything turned out ok.
funnie, flea's a big girl--my comment wasn't intended to try to "do flea some good." But what happens to the kittens when the deals for free food expire?
If it's not entertaining, apparently it's not worth mentioning. Could I have been more diplomatic? Sure. But I wasn't. It happens.
----
As for "skulking," this is the first post I've read here in months--after several people mentioned being surprised or concerned by it. I commented on it. So what?
As for "harrassing" flea, commenting on one post just doesn't fit the definition. If you're going to accuse me of things, at least have the motivation to find something that fits.
Flea can't win one way or the other. But I think she figured that out a long time ago.
Say whatever; I just didn't understand the point. Am actually more confused now than before, when I thought the comment was about the three-year-old dog decision, not financial planning for growing kittens (or whatever the point might be).
The point, I think, is that you shouldn't adopt animals you can't or won't take care of.
Do I agree with how it was brought about? No. But it's a valid fucking point.
If they were animals from a shelter, there's no reason to believe they would be in a better situation if flea hadn't adopted them - in fact aren't shelter animals routinely 'put down' if homes can't be found for them?
It's not as though she was breeding animals. The kittens and the dog would still have existed if she hadn't adopted them.
Flea doesn't need anyone to fight (or ignore) her battles, but I feel inclined to open my big ol' mouth anyway.
1. Nobody on this planet reserves the right to smugly point to their supreme parenting skills. There isn't a parent of kids 18+ anywhere who doesn't have a "my kid threw a chair at his teacher" story of one kind or another. My brother called a kid a freckle-faced-fart-bottom once. And now he's a successful movie producer with a great family and philanthropic tendencies. But my whole family tells the FFFB story with relish. (And no, I'm not equating creative insults with not making the best choice of a cat treat.)
2. Nobody on this planet other than Flea & Steve have the right to tell them what to do with whatever money they make. If people want to donate to them (even just to poorly compensate for the marvelous entertainment/educational value of this blog), who the hell are you to judge? Pets are not a freakin' X-Box. They're small creatures to love and cherish, and if Flea & Steve want to help their children show love, affection and care for other creatures, then G-d bless 'em. This is not a pair of people who beg on the streets for money and then spend it smoking crack while their kids languis on Doritos salvaged from strangers' trash bins. I've shared walls with a couple who cried poor from their leather sectional and three cars, while their kids starved for attention, clothing and food. I know the difference.
3. I didn't necessarily mean that I'm shocked that Flea kept the nickel because why waste a nickel -- couldn't the vet take it as payment? Because, frankly, icky! (I didn't keep my tonsils, either, though.)
Love ya, Flea.
Pets from shelters are worthy of exactly the same quality of care as any other pet. To say that they aren't makes me a little sick, frankly.
Oh, and PS - I believe in euthanasia for animals when medical intervention cannot help them. Trust me -- when you've seen a beloved pet suffer and fight medication, all you want for them is peace. Giving someone a hard time after they've had to make that decision is rubbing salt in their wound, and then punching it.
And yes, I'd want to be put out of my misery, too.
"you" shouldn't adopt animals you can't or won't take care of?
or, *flea* shouldn't?
It's a great point, generally speaking.
Its applicability to a situation in which a pet was, in fact, cared for, I'm still missing.
Uh, yeah. For animals who can't be treated, or are too old/sick for treatment to be worth it, sure. But that's not the same thing as having the treatment be expensive.
The problem I see, Funnie, is in getting new pets when your financial situation has been the cause of a previous pets unnecessary death.
IIRC, Crowder Pea was not a young cat by any means. And she may well have squeezed a year or two more out of life if they had gone ahead with treatment. Deciding that it is no longer worth it financially (and really, not kind to an elderly animal) to continue to subject them to therapies is absolutely understandable.
And saying that ergo, they will not take care of these cats is dumb, because obviously, they do. The difference being: Bobby is young and can withstand surgery and still bounce back.
Uh, Kelly, who said anything about Crowder Pea?
Yes, one must answer for one's mistakes in perpetuity. One bad pet decision = no more pets.
I am relieved once again not to have a blog. Or a pet. Or a kid.
Yes, one must answer for one's mistakes in perpetuity. One bad pet decision = no more pets.
I am relieved once again not to have a blog. Or a pet. Or a kid.
Judging someone based on what decision they made in a bad situation when you don't really know them must be cool, right?
I, too, had to get rid of a dog who was aggressive with my son. My son was six at the time, even, so I can see where it would be even WORSE in Flea's situation when the child was even more defenseless. And no, I didn't take the dog and have her put to sleep, but I know for a fact that she *was* put to sleep. When I took her to the shelter and explained why I was giving her up, they explained that with a history as a biter, particularly toward a child, the chances were nil that the dog would be adopted out. So, they put her to sleep, rather than me having her put to sleep... you know, in a quiet, loving environment where she got to spend her last moments being held by someone who loved her. And like Flea, I'm sure, I agonized over it. And no one can judge me for it, nor Flea, because, yes, a child's safety and well being is more important than the dog's. Always.
And we even have another dog. One that doesn't bite my kids.
We all have the right to our own thoughts. You think your right to have a kid friendly dog without working at it supercedes a dog's right to live. I think people who put down dogs without exploring all possible other options are assholes. I think those people shouldn't get another dog. I think pets should be cherished, not just bought and discarded like commodities. I think that having someone else put your pet down for you is chickenshit. Those are my thoughts.
My kid swallowed a lollipop stick a coupla months ago, so of course I used your kitty crisis as yet another,uh, teaching tool. Ahem. ;^) I doubt my kiddo will ever put any non-food item in his mouth for the rest of his life. ;^)
"bought and discarded like commodities"
I think that's unfair. While there have certainly been differing values and opinions expressed on this thread, nobody has said or even implied this. Just because someone didn't act in the way you would have does not mean they never cared about their pets.
Oh, btw ... long-time lurker here. Thank you for being so generous with all your wonderful stories, Flea.
"Uh, Kelly, who said anything about Crowder Pea?"
Well, I just kinda assumed, given that the discussion was about how Flea opted to put down an old pet that was costing a lot of money, like, oh, Crowder Pea. As I recall, the deciding factor in putting the dog down was that he/she (?) was aggressive toward the kids. So I just figured we were all talking about Crowder Pea because I am having a hard time processing the idea that some people would have a problem with parents picking the wellbeing of their kids over their dog.
Grace, I certainly didn't mean shelter animals are less worthy of care. But you (and others) seemed to be arguing that flea should not have adopted the kittens, but rather should have left them in the shelter. I was arguing that we have no evidence that leaving them there would have resulted in a better life for them, or even any life at all.
Now obviously I'm not saying that gives anyone a pass to mistreat their pets and use the excuse 'it might have been worse for them if I'd left them in the shelter'. But I don't see that flea is mistreating her cats - the thing with the coin was not her fault unless you think she should watch her children and pets 24/7 and never sleep. These accidents happen, and she did have the problem put right, at considerable financial cost. I don't understand what more she could have done.
I read the old post about the dog that had to be put down. Again it's difficult to see what else could have been done. I'm sure if someone had been willing to take the dog, then flea would have preferred that, but since that wasn't an option there was nothing else to be done, short of abandoning the animal somewhere, which is surely a cruel thing to do.
Cats aren't toys or 'tools to teach empathy'. Cats and other animals deserve humane treatment as opposed to being locked in boxes, squeezed, having tabasco sauce put in their water, etc. As for them not fighting back, this situation is all they've known.
Shiny!
And uh, catte?
1) Duh
2) Give the poor woman a break, she isn't happy about it
3) Go lie down
Flea, I thought this story was hilarious. And could I get Christopher to come over to our place, the next time our cats need to be pilled? If he can make Bobby swallow a nickel, surely he could coax some prednisone down my cats' throats.
(sigh) If only you used pseudonyms, we could call the cat "Booby" instead of "Bobby". It'd be downright appropriate, given the contents of the garage.
And I'd really rather not get involved in debating anyone's fitness to keep cats or kids or water heaters or blogs, nor am I looking forward to reading any more unless they have a funny punchline. Happily, my writing is far less entertaining, and I don't have to deal with these arguments on my blog. It's not a big incentive to improve.
flea, you've outdone yourself. I keep hearing Christopher's "I'm sorry Bobby! I'm very sorry!" and my heart just breaks. I know cats are fragile and shouldn't be fed nickles, but my heart goes out to the little boy. Of course, when I was three I tried to flush our kitten down the toilet, so I may not be the best person to go to for cat-sympathy.
I feel awful 'cause I laughed my ass off at this story, followed by a quick check at the ending to make sure I wasn't laughing at a dead cat, followed by my laughing my ass off again.
Not to insert myself in an argument, but seems to me Flea acquired the kittens because they're a family of pet people, and pet people have pets. The opportunity to teach empathy is a nice secondary benefit.
It is apparently possible with some dogs to train aggressive behavior towards children out of them. That said, I would not keep a dog that exhibited aggressive behavior towards a small child. I'd rather feel guilty for killing a dog than feel guilty over a disfiguring injury to a child.
Thank you for sharing something that must have been frightful to deal with, and for sharing it in such a funny, human way. I know that Christopher needs to learn a lesson here, but I confess my heart aches for the little guy. (For poor Bobby Bradycat, too!)
Well, Flea, I know you were worried about Bobby's behavior with Cindy, but now you've seen some change in him.
The dog was 9 AND it growled at the baby.
Frog, why be such a douche? You act like you are God's gift to children. Do you think a dog growling at a baby is ok?
Why come here just to start shit?
Real Christian of you.
Hypocrite!
The day my dad got married, his dog bit his wife's three-year-old grandson. On the face. He had to go to the hospital and have surgery (he's fine now).
My dad was married in our back yard. So that morning, the house was full of the chaos of wedding preparations. I was in the bedroom getting dressed. The other adults were in the kitchen, in the yard - I don't know. Nobody happened to be watching the three-year-old or the dog at that exact moment. So nobody knows exactly what happened. We assume the kid must have done /something/ because the dog had never bitten anyone before. But then again, maybe the dog was just freaked out by all the noise and unfamiliarness and chaos, and took it out on the person whose face was closest to the floor. Who the hell knows?
Apologies were distributed and accepted all around. I'm not even sure whose insurance paid for the medical treatment. The kid's fine now. You can barely see the scar.
But how could my dad and his new wife trust the dog around her grandkids, after that?
My dad finally gave the dog back to the animal rescue group he got him from. They were kind of pissed. I wasn't happy myself, because I loved that dog to bits even though he wasn't mine. My dad cited worry over his insurance - apparently if the dog ever bit anyone again, his homeowner's insurance could be cancelled, or something. I figure he probably just didn't want to explain to anyone why he'd kept a dog that had already bitten a kid so badly he needed surgery, and let it bite someone else's kid. And I have to say I agree that not having kids mauled is more important than an individual dog. Even that dog.
I really don't understand animal people who insist that others should put their animals above their children, or above themselves. People's economic circumstances change. People's lives change. There's no possible way to foresee every possible outcome when deciding to adopt a pet. There is no fucking way I'd let a pet put a child at risk, or get me evicted from my home. What good would that do the animal?
If you believe people really shouldn't ever keep pets at all (because after all there's always the chance of something going wrong) then at least be intellectually honest enough to say so, rather than excoriating people for not rising to meet some standard of pet-ownerhood that, according to your own believes, no one could ever possibly reach.
That, or just go do something anatomically impossible.
I don't know frog. I barely know flea, and I don't think she would remember me if she fell over me. I know flea from what she post on her blog, and I know what frog has said to flea regarding certain hot-button issues. I've read two or three of frog's blogposts.
Acknowledging that I don't know these people and they don't know me, I don't want to see their dirty laundry aired in public. If they have personal problems with one another, this is the wrong place to discuss, resolve, or re-ignite them. Can't some things still be kept between two people and not trotted out for public consumption? I just can't see the point of making a comment like the one frog made here, and specifically taking pains to identify herself as the commenter, unless you particularly wanted to twist the knife. It seems really vengeful and spiteful to me, and I can't understand it.
I thought this was a great story, and I'm glad you wrote it, flea. I enjoy your writing immensely, and I'm sorry that your private woes continue to be publicly thrown in your face.
And, obviously, if 'NotThatSteve' was your default user name, you are a lurker and stalker. A-hole.
I am relieved once again not to have a blog. Or a pet. Or a kid.
yeap yeap yeap funnie.
As I'm re-reading the old post - you folks wanted Flea to keep a dog who attacked her guests, had destructive behavoir, and started growling at the baby.
Flea - as a pet owner (including a dog) - I believe you made the right decision. Once a dog starts to feel threatened by humans unless you can get them into a home with a damn good trainer (and those folks are far and few between), the best bet is to put him down.
I don't think that if you had move to the country it would have made a difference. Every time he would be in the house, he would have to be caged.
As for Bobby - heh he'll fight back soon enough - when he's had enough and the kids go to far. No matter what "environment" he's been raised in, cats will defend themselves.
I am relieved once again not to have a blog. Or a pet. Or a kid.
yeap yeap yeap funnie.
As I'm re-reading the old post - you folks wanted Flea to keep a dog who attacked her guests, had destructive behavoir, and started growling at the baby.
Flea - as a pet owner (including a dog) - I believe you made the right decision. Once a dog starts to feel threatened by humans unless you can get them into a home with a damn good trainer (and those folks are far and few between), the best bet is to put him down.
I don't think that if you had move to the country it would have made a difference. Every time he would be in the house, he would have to be caged.
As for Bobby - heh he'll fight back soon enough - when he's had enough and the kids go to far. No matter what "environment" he's been raised in, cats will defend themselves.
"Private woes," my ass. She posted about it. I linked it. It's not like it's something she told me in confidence.
Cripe.
Man, You are all missing the point about empathy. With young children, they sometimes do not know that their actions are hurtful or harmful. Through modeling and redirection, the parent teaches the child to be empathetic and gentle with adults, children, and pets. Pets are not to be used only for this purpose but it is a responsable pet owner AND parent who uses nearly every opportunity presented to teach.
So "pet people" should be able to get whatever kind of pet they want, regardless of whether or not they can care for it? I've always been fond of giraffes, so maybe I should get one and when I go to work each day I'll just leave it tied to the back porch.
Well, what say you, frog? NotThatSteve...any reason for using that name to comment?
just like you to stir up shit and selectively respond
I know about dogs who growl at people. And even dogs who bite people. I had one. He was the absolute love of my life and I miss him terribly. I put a lot of time and money into training him, and he was trained out of it. Why train rather than put down? Because he wasn't disposable. FOr the same reason you don't give up a kid with behavioral issues. Don't like that analogy? Tough shit. It's not a reflection on how you feel about your kid, it's a reflection on how I feel about my dog.
The original post that Frog pointed back to didn't tell a story of a vicious attack dog. It told a story of a cranky, unmanageable dog who got sick and was not properly treated, then got growly. It's not a question of whether it's responsible to keep a dog that attacks kids. It's a question of whether to put down a dog that has expensive but treatable medical conditions. More than that, it's a question of whether to keep getting pets when you have had to put down previous ones due to not being able to care for them properly because of financial constraint.
I want nothing to do with any battle between Frog and Flea. Personally, I love them both. But that doesn't change my having a really fucking serious problem with people not taking care of their pets. A bad decision, a change in financial circumstances, that's one thing, although it's pretty freaking hard for me to come to terms with putting a dog down unless ALL other possibilities are exhausted. Continuing to take in pets when you know you don't have the means to care for them is something else.
I know I'm taking the bait -- yay! -- on yet another kids vs. pets argument -- yay! -- but Grace, that analogy has got to be one of the top five offensive things I've ever seen you write.
By "private woes", I meant the end of your friendship. You seem like you're deliberately trying to hurt flea, frog. Maybe she deserves it. Maybe she did something crappy to you recently. I don't give a rat's ass. It's between the two of you. Quit bringing it here.
I honestly don't see why, Krup. Why is it so fucking horrible for me to think of dogs as like children? Why does that automatically equal my devaluing kids? Why can't it just be about what it is about--how much I love my dogs?
And even if there is no way someone who has both kids and pets can see the way I equate them, can you imagine for a moment that you do love your dog as much as you love your kid, then read that post about putting the dog down and tell me how you feel about it? Because I honestly feel that even if I did have kids, I'd still value my dogs just as much. Maybe I'm wrong--I likely won't ever find out--but that's how I feel about it.
Because it's not about how much you love your dogs. All of a sudden it's about how much we all think Flea loved her dogs and cats, and how we think she should love her pets now, and if she's really worthy of doing so in the first place.
And I made it about that by making the analogy? Wasn't it already about that? You lost me.
My only point in making the analogy is to explain why I don't find it acceptable to put down a dog because you can't afford its needed medical care. If I feel about dogs the way that most people feel about kids, then my finding that reprehensible makes sense. And since so many of the commentors here don't seem to see what the problem with it would be, I thought the analogy might help to explain it.
You know, I was staying out of this. But you know what, Grace? Fuck you. How dare you compare dogs with behavioral issues to children with disabilities? On the blog of someone who has a child with disabilities, no less. But really, that would be incredibly offensive anywhere.
I liked fondly thinking that you had learned something about comparing dogs to groups of people. But apparently I'm wrong. You have made it clear over and over that you're more concerned for the well-being of dogs than of human beings. So be it. But I'm done trying to respect your value system.
OK, to be clear, I wasn't saying, or implying, anything about children with disabilities. I said children with behavioral issues. I was thinking children with behavioral issues. Behavioral issues. Misbehaving. There was nothing said or implied about disabilities. So don't put words in my mouth.
And that's probably enough for me. Believe it or not, nothing I've said was meant to be hurtful. This is honestly the way I feel about dogs. I'm sorry that's offensive, but it's not going to change, so the choices are accept that I feel this way or hate my guts. Up to you.
You know, I don't care how you feel about your dogs. Or even about dogs generally. But at the point where you're not talking about your feelings and are wandering around the internet scolding others for not valuing their dogs in the same way that you value dogs--i.e. more than children--yeah, I have a problem with that. Because at that point, it's about what you think should be the values of society, not about your personal feelings.
And I apologize for misreading "children with behavioral problems" as "children with disabilities." But given the context of that statement, I think you can see how my mind would make that leap.
I can, actually, and I'm sorry for phrasing it that way. It honestly wasn't what I meant.
eat them up, yumm.
http://www.forkncork.com/
http://
www.cajuncookingrecipes.c...y_frog_legs.htm
I love my dogs very much and would never choose one of them over a human. Just as most people would not choose one child over another. My relationship has been through hell and back over my love for my dogs. I am not expecting anyone to feel the same as I do, but I also don't appreciate being judged for it. Like Grace, I do not have or plan to have children, so it may just be irrelevant. My dogs are people in my eyes and I treat them as such.
Maybe all of you with children just don't understand us animal lovers. You choose children, we choose animals. Can't we all just get along?
"NotThatSteve" was leftover from another I made on a blog that uses haloscan--if I was trying to do something sneaky here, wouldn't I have changed my website URL and email in that first comment? Um, yep. And would I have immediately come back and claimed the comment as mine? Nope.
I have no doubt about flea's capacity for love--my question's about continuing to bring dependent creatures into your life when you don't have the money to care for them.
That should read "from another comment" in the first line.
So, only kids whose families have more money are allowed to love pets? There's a class distinction to be made here? I suppose flea shouldn't have had two children, then, since two cost more than one. Do you folks see the dangerous line you're treading? Smells a lot like classism to me.
Even before I had kids, I couldn't think of my pets as my children. It was emotional enough for me to deal with their ups and downs, if I thought of them as children or humans, I would have been a basket case.
Pets are amazing - they've enriched my life so much - I can't imagine going through some of the things I've gone through without the fuzzy faces for support, and I hope that my son will always have an animal presence in his life. However, I can't make the leap to thinking of them as my sons, daughters, nieces, nephews, anything personified. I care for them as I would care for a beloved pet, not as I would care for a child. I can't think of them as people, because they're not.
Orange, I was talking about the cats.
I have to open up again here to say that it's nobody's damned business how Flea chooses to spend whatever disposable income she has. How come those who are judging by saying she can't afford it aren't applauding that she and Steve chose to spend the money it takes to adopt and care for two little furry creatures instead of, say, going out to dinner here and there. (A treat I personally think would be great for anyone on a semi-regular basis.)
I'm with Orange and Thistle on this one. Quit making judgements. And for those who feel so judgemental of Flea, I don't know what you're doing here. Head on off to a blog for people who share more of your opinions and let this be.
JT - just to nitpick, according to dictionary.com "discretionary income" means "Individual income that is not allocated for necessary items such as food and shelter". If a person can't pay their mortgage, then they don't HAVE discretionary income.
I've never commented here before--I think you all need to chill the fuck out. As JT said, this is really nobody's business but Flea's. She chose to share a very difficult story (which could have easily had a drastically more unhappy ending) and did not at any point say, "Hey, you all, what do you think about my choice to pay a whole lot to have the nickel removed?" or "Hey, can anyone help me decide if I should be allowed to have kids and pets? I mean, I'm not really rich, so shouldn't I just live in communal house and eat ramen?"
It's wonderful to enter into relationships with animals--wonderful when you can care for them and have your life enriched by their presence. But when their behavior threatens that of your children or of other people around you, their right to continue cohabiting with you is seriously jeapordized. If I were a foster parent and I took in a child whose behavior seriously threatened the continued well-being of the other children already in my home, I would not hesitate to ask that that child be reassigned to someone who did not already have smaller, more vulnerable children living at the same place. An individual's right to pursue happiness should never outweigh others' rights to continue living unharmed.
And should my pet require expensive surgery that might not necessarily help him, should this pet already be relatively old, should this pet have a history of aggression towards other members of my household, I would not feel guilt at deciding to remove this pet from my home. It is inhumane to allow an ill animal to suffer indefinitely, and simply taking the animal to the shelter only guarantees that it will languish for several days or weeks before it is put to sleep. It is truly wonderful to hear that there are so many passionate people who would be willing to open their homes to a 9 year-old dog with serious behavior and medical conditions. I hope that you will all welcome many such animals into your homes and assume the responsibility for ensuring they do not endanger other people's children.
I could have been a lot kinder and more diplomatic about my concerns here and I'm sorry that I wasn't.
It's always possible, of course, that flea's line about "tossing away our hopes of paying this month's mortgage" was a rhetorical flourish. She's a gifted writer, and although readers tend to think blogs offer an unvarnished look into the writer's inner life, writers do use rhetorical devices from time to time. Bitch Ph.D., for instance, maintains her pseudonymity by altering the occasional extraneous detail. To make judgments based on assumptions that may or may not be accurate is unwarranted (putting aside the question of whether it's nice to make judgments in the first place).
Ha, I was just going to throw something out there about exaggeration for comic effect, but I see I have been beaten.
"That should read "from another comment" in the first line".
Yes, exactly. I am not saying that THIS time you were being sneaky. But why would you EVER be notthatsteve? Because at some point you were making some snide anon remark. And her husband just happens to be named.......
Yeah, whatever!
Dude, honestly, get a grip. It turns out that flea's blog isn't the only one in the world that uses haloscan comments, and that Steve's a really common name. There's nothing here to flip out about. "Steve" has been my go-to name for almost 20 years--since the first year of college. And that predates my knowledge of flea by (does math), um, at least 10 years.
There are plenty of things about me that you can get all bent out of shape about. This ain't one of them. Really, save yourself the stress.
Yo, Flea. I'm broke as fuck but adopted two grown cats anyway (as you probably know from the egregious cat blogging at Feministe).
Shortly after adopting Pablo, he got sick. Really sick. He went to the vet three times in a month because of his vomiting (which he's never really stopped, but which has lessened since I've gotten Doug, the bugger) and I found myself shelling out $500 I wasn't able to spend on Pablo's vet bills. I don't regret it one fucking bit. I adore my cats and they are a bonding force between my son and me.
It is infuriating that people think owning pets is for only those of a certain economic class. People get pets because they love animals and because they want to share that love with the animals, the children, and whoever else will sit down and listen to our stupid pet stories. I'm a fucking college graduate and a professional with an official title and a tiny paycheck. I found out recently that I still qualify for food stamps, and YES, I still adopted two cats that I love and care for with my son.
And apparently, folks, Flea does take care of these cats. If she didn't she wouldn't have opted for Bobby's surgery.
Sorry for the language, Flea, but I won't sit back and listen to people rag on somebody poor for being so selfish to adopt an animal and discuss it like Bill O'Reilly makes up anecdotes about single moms with big screen TVs who takes her eight children in a limo to pick up the welfare check.
Fuck that noise. When animal lovers become poor people haters? Listen to yourselves.
"It's always possible, of course, that flea's line about "tossing away our hopes of paying this month's mortgage" was a rhetorical flourish."
Keep believing that if it makes you feel better.
And Char, what's your problem with this? That she got the cats in the first place or that she cared for them? Do we want animal owners to care for their pets in an emergency or pay their mortgage despite the cat's medical emergency and leave the cat to suffer?
What are your priorities here?
Thanks, Lauren. Don't worry about Char - she and I are all roses and ham.
(has no clue if "roses and ham" means Best Friends Forever or World War III...)
Anyhow. I have pets and kids, so I can't resist tossing my hat into the ring here.
Flea, I have always agreed with your pet-related decisions. I think that you make them thoughtfully and wisely. I think you treated Crowder Pea up until the right point, I think you made the right call to not spend money you didn't have on Zumi, and although my head tells me that spending the mortgage money to fix Bobby was unwise, my heart is right there with you. Honestly, what was the alternative? Having Christopher believe he killed the cat? Having Christopher grieve horribly for a cat that clearly loves him, as Zumi so clearly did not?
I integrated a baby into a two-dog, one-cat household. I was commited to it, I had time and money to spend on interventions if necessary, and I'm very happy with how everybody gets along these days. But realistically, there is not shit that I could have done to prevent the death of any of my animals if they had been kid-aggressive. Who the fuck, besides Grace, would have been willing to adopt them? And knowing that they were kid-aggressive, would I even have WANTED them to continue to live in this kid-filled world? No animal's life is worth a child's safety. I'm really glad I've never been faced with that choice, and really pissed off that flea or anybody else would be judged for it.
For you holier than thou's who think that 'financial security' should be required before someone is allowed to adopt a pet, answer me this. Who/what defines financial security? What makes you secure? If you lose that smug financial security of yours, whether to illness, job loss or natural disaster, shall we send the pet police to take away your pets because you can no longer be sure of paying in case of some potential, unlikely medical happening? Shall we start calculating the millions of additional animals that will be put down every year because of all the adoptions that wouldn't happen due to your arrogant and self serving financial requirements?
Shall we talk about how anyone who would keep an animal who has already shown aggression towards children around children while 'researching all options' shows total stupidity to a point rendering them unfit to be a parent or a pet owner? Or about how I pity those pets who will not be allowed a peaceful and timely death due to their selfish owners insistence on keeping them alive past all limits of common sense?
And when all is said and done, Froghater is a much more anal name than NotthatSteve even if she hadn't immediately ID'd herself.
Lauren - I suggest you go check out Char's comment on Flea's blog: http://betweenthelakes.blogspot....es-
leaving.html
to see what her full take is on this situation.
"Or about how I pity those pets who will not be allowed a peaceful and timely death due to their selfish owners insistence on keeping them alive past all limits of common sense?"
Agreeing, oh so agreeing. My cat is old and has kidney trouble; my fiance and I decided that we will happily shell out for any test or treatment that does not hurt her or even make her uncomfortable. She's given me fifteen awesome years - I don't want her to live one day in pain if I can prevent that. Every time we go to the vet we see other cat owners who are putting their pets through HELL to keep them alive. Not fair, I say. Part of responsible pet ownership is knowing when to let go.
I knew I should have commented when I first read this. I was afraid to as I live an eerily similar life to you, flea, and have spent much of the past couple of days keeping my kids away from the cat. So far Easter grass has been the worst thing he's eaten - phew.
Here's my two cents (nickel?) re: whatever people are bitching about.
1) Smart people recognize other smart people (consider yourself recognized, flea).
2) Smart people makes decisions based on information, intuition and emotion.
3) Smart people don't question or otherwise critcize others' decisions.
continued
Even if it isn't a choice one would make for oneself.
4) Smart people don't turn a well-written, hilarious post into something it is not.
Now I'll go rescue my cat from behind the furnace.
Given that you're apparently criticizing those of us who differ on this issue, TW, this is fucking hilarious: 3) Smart people don't question or otherwise critcize others' decisions.
(I'm putting this here because I am not a regular commenter on Frog's blog and see no reason to change that...)
Were I flea, I'm not sure which characterization I'd find more offensive: Flea The Wanton Genital Mutilating Animal Slaughterer or Flea The Tragically Oppressed Cassandraesque Victim Figure.
How about Flea, the smart, funny, loving woman whose life right now is challenging? Flea and Steve remind me a lot of my parents, who put down a couple of sick/behaviorally impaired pets and missed a few mortgage payments and even, God forbid, went briefly on WELFARE while I was growing up and yet somehow, they have managed to enjoy kids, their pets, each other and their time on this planet. If you (general you) think Flea's life is a Greek tragedy and her blog rendition of it is a cry for help, then you're not looking very closely at the lives of people around you. Difficult child? Bank-busting vet bill? Less-than-stellar breadwinner? There's a reason so many readers feel a sense of catharsis when Flea writes about that stuff. I wish my mom had had a blog... but I didn't/don't pity her, and I certainly don't pity Flea or think she needs a damn thing from me other than friendship and empathy. And, as she is a businesswoman, my business
Smart people don't name themselves "trophywife."
I just wanted to point out that dogs often become aggressive when they're neglected.
What was it Jennifer Aniston said? "Don't make me your victim; it makes my skin crawl."
flea is a grown-ass woman with a house, a husband, two kids, and two sweet, adorable, now nickel-free cats. I think if she needed help she would specifically ask for it (as she has sometimes in the past). It is not buggydoo.blogspot.org - readers who don't know her do not have any responsibility nor invitation to repair the finances of her family. Admonishing people for finding entertainment value in the entertaining way flea writes is puzzling. Isn't in financially helpful if more people find this blog entertaining, visit it, and click on the ads or buy something from Honeysuckle? If the whole thing were a cry for help, I know I personally would find it extremely off-putting.
I just wanted to point out that dogs often become aggressive for a variety of reasons, some of which have nothing to do with the quality of care they receive.
You know Smithie, I can actually hear the wind whistle as things go over your head. You might want to pay attention to that.
You know, it would be damn funny to auction off that nickel (assuming McMortgage hasn't already made off with it), possibly with a signed letter of authenticity from Bobby himself (which, of course, Flea would have to type, as cats are pretty bad with keyboards, though not as bad as dogs. Or snakes).
Maybe get the vet to sign something, too, affirming that this is indeed The Nickel that was removed from the stomach of Bobby concurrently with his deballing (Balls Not Included In Price), complete with authentic Cat-Digestive antiquing process.
I learned long ago that smithie cannot help but talk about HERSELF no matter what. I just ignore whatever she posts. There may be a sentence or two disguised to be on topic, but it always comes back to smithie and her woes. You're right- she does not and will not ever get it.
Heck, I'd bid in that auction. Though possibly because I don't have a cat. Fortunately the kids have never fed anything awful to the basset, since anything offered to that dog as food goes straight down the hatch.
On the contrary, frog. Your decisions are yours and I would not presume to say you should do anything other than what your heart and head tell you. I object to questioning the decisions of another, especially when you, yourself do not have to live with the consequences of said decisions. See the difference? I also feel that this post was written in a tottaly different spirit than it was received. Which is sad. Sucked the joy out of it for me a little bit.
Oh, and I forgot, feminist. Smart people understand sarcasm.
Feminist - Word!
"I also feel that this post was written in a totally different spirit than it was received. Which is sad. Sucked the joy out of it for me a little bit."
Ditto. But you know, somebody (or some animal) has got to be The Victim every time something inconvenient happens, because otherwise, how could we constantly wallow in misery?
Gotta run, my husband and child are oppressing me with their exhausting demands for love and attention and dinner...
Oh, and flea? If this is alleged to have happened again to either pet or human, a metal dectector can give you a really accurate idea of whether or not a coin or other metallic object has been swallowed, where it is in the digestive system, etc. Much cheaper than an X-ray at the vet (or at the ER if you have a copay). You probably already know somebody who has a detector gathering dust in their garage. Saved us a midnight trip to Children's last month.
flea, I don't know how to do trackbacks (color me blog-stupid) but if I did I'd direct you to my place. I think the rush to judgement that people have shown is horrid, appalling, and only makes them look trivial and mean-spirited. Keep loving your babies and your kitties and telling you stories--you do it all so well.
Ah yes, that wind over the head thing. There must be a bloody tornado swirling around your head Char.
Two years ago, when I first ran into your...opinions, I listened because maybe you had something to say.
Well that was a big waste of two years. You listen to no one. You know it all.
Didn't like you then and two years later, nothing's changed, especially you. How surprising that you came along just to offer insults but without anything of substance to add to the debate.
Have you ever actually read anything that smithie has to say? It's all me, me, me, me, me, and me in her world.
I do agree that char, like frog, is always right and that's that. But smithie is just blissfully ignorant. No matter what she posts, it must somehow relate to something about her life.
Glad to hear the cat is okay and hope your kids learn their lesson.
I was a holy terror to my parents' cat as a child -- chased him around the house to hear him make the fire-engine noise.
On the other hand, my parents told me that since the cat had seniority (~1.5 years older than me), if we couldn't get along, well, he had seniority. And gullible kid I was, I believed them.
Anyway, I could ramble on about cats and the kids who love them/whom they love, but I'll spare you for now.
Be well.
Glad Bobby is OK. My dog once jumped in the shower and ate a safety razor. Or, rather, she ate some of the plastic and all of the blades. MMm, yummy metal. We rushed her to the vet, who said at that point it was already in her intestines, had miraculously casued no damage, and appeared to be surrounded by food. She passed it with no damage about and hour later. Talk about lucky!
Ooooh! I have an anonymous stalker! And just think, it's dropped by twice to talk about me me me, nothing but MEEEEEE!
Wow. It's really amazing how feminists band together to support each other. The love I've seen in this comment section is just staggering. Hugs, Flea. Those who know you get it.
Yeah, JT. They do.
"Gotta run, my husband and child are oppressing me with their exhausting demands for love and attention and dinner..."
me, me, me poor oppressed me....
Hey Sandi -- always nice to meet my fans!
Flea, I just stumbled onto your blog yesterday (Sorry; would say how, but I've already forgotten. Kactus is how I returned today.)
First, I'm delighted for you and the fam that Bobby will be okay. How's Christopher doing about it all now?
My daughter (10 months old at the time) swallowed a penny last fall, and I didn't discover it had happened until it re-appeared in a diaper. Thank god it didn't cause any dammage, right? Anyhoo, sometimes sh*t just happens...and I feel your pain.
Finally, I'm stunned at the tone of comments here. It's your life to blog about as you wish -- that, and "what TrophyWife said." Boundaries, people. Find some.
Allison
PS - TW (if you see this), do you have a site? I get the impression I'd enjoy it if you do. Besides that, I happen to *like* sarcasm.
Good god.
*sends telepathic hug to Flea*
I'm so sorry this comments thread happened to you. Best wishes to Bobby... he's just an old fashioned kinda guy, standing by his man, nickel or no nickel.
How does one have an opinion on something one can't relate to? And is it not better to be blissfully ignorant than arrogantly stupid? Just asking.
Jesus. I fall behind on my blog reading, return to what is a hilarious and touching post and I'm SO glad Bobby is all right.
I had no idea there was a falling out. I'm sorry to hear it. But I do think that attacking people for being in difficult circumstances is shitty and ungenerous. People do shit one disagrees with. If it's truly offensive to one's ethical code, one is shocked, one drops them, one moves on. Period. Beyond that, it seems that the motivation is mere self-aggrandizement.
And for the record, I was one of those people who loved my pets beyond belief, beyond all imagining of how much I could possibly love kids, who swore that my pets were as important to me as any children would have ever been.
And you know what? When you have kids, that's simply no longer the case. I'm sorry, but that's just how it is.
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