We need to simplify the immigration process. It's too long and we let in too few people. It's not the 11 million Mexicans I'm worried about. It's the 10 illegal Arabs sneaking in the country to blow us up that I'm worried about. Bill Maher says it best. Screw political correctness...profile those nuts and kick them out. Mexicans don't bother me.
Would you agree the process is too long, Ryan? And would you agree locking up those who enable illegal immigrants...like corporate CEOs who profit from their cheap labor?
I am for a better legal system for immigration. However, it is not just CEOs use illegal labor, it is small time farmers and business owners. Right now, in some states businesses do not have to prove, or do not have the right to ask if their employees can prove citizenship. That needs to change.
That's not completely true. This is the way it was explainted to me: You do have to "prove" your eligible to work here but the person hiring you cannot question whether the documents you show are counterfeit. As long as documentation is provided (and kept on file) the hiring body is off the hook if it turns out the worker is here illegally. That's up to INS to figure out. And, unless they are working in conjunction with the IRS, I don't see how they would find out. They would have to just conduct raids on the areas where the illegals are known to live (I think we all could name a few places off the tops of our heads.)
Let's start with all the mushroom growers up in Kennett! Raid their sheds, deport all the pickers, and lock up all the owners and supervisors who hired them without proper documentation. If the price of mushrooms goes up because they can't pay American kids enough to pick them, so what? I hate mushrooms anyway.
Seriously, they need to make it easier for migrant workers to come up here and do our crap jobs, of which musroom picking is a perfect example. Here's something nobody's talking about, though: employers should be allowed to pay them less than the minimum wage. Why? Because they're not American citizens, so they're not entitled to the same benefits as we are. Heck, they've already shown that they're willing to work for less because it's better than what they can get back home, so why not codify that? That way, employers are encouraged to get with the program, rather than turn a blind eye. Of course, if these workers want the same benefits as American citizens, they can learn to speak English and apply for citizenship. What? Speak English? That's racist! No, that way we don't have to print everything in two languages. Think of all the money we'd save in tax documents alone!
Now, as for Mike's and Maher's concerns, as soon as we make it easier for immigrants to come here and work legally, we can shoot anyone who comes across the border any other way, since they must either be smugglers or terrorists.
Nosy, you may be interested to know that commercial tax preparers are not permitted to question the legitimacy of documentation, unless the SSN comes up as invalid. That way, all the single men can claim married status with 8 kids and qualify with enough deductions to avoid paying any taxes at all.
G -- when you say "all the single men" you mean "illegally working single men?" If so, I completely agree. But, what happens if the number comes back invalid and the employer is notified of this? Now that they have been made aware that there's a problem (fake documentation) does the employer's responsibilites for checking the validity of the documents change?
Nope, there's no notification process; not to the IRS, not to employers. The policy is designed to protect the individual preparers (I'm talking about HR Block, Jackson Hewitt, etc. here) from any form of retribution from tax cheats, foreign or domestic.
We need to, as Mike M. stated, first deal with the illegal immigrants, er, excuse me undocumented workers, who are here already. THEN, we can start implementing a guest worker program.
Shockingly, that's all I have to say.
Actually, not done.
Ryan- In Tennessee, all state and local government officials are banned from inquiring about a person's citizenship for any reason, and I am not sure that employers are required to ask at all.
At the very least, I'm glad this issue has move beyond just "terrorists will get in" - if they want to come here, the Candadian border is much bigger and, at places, even less secure than the Mexican border. The Millenium bombers didn't come in through Tiujana.
I would also ask this: what happens to our economy if we suddently get rid of a work force of 9-10 million? They're both producers and consumers, let's not forget. The economic issues are quite complex and must not be overlooked.
I would also ask this: what happens to our economy if we suddently get rid of a work force of 9-10 million?
Jobs would be easier to find?
Wages would go up overall as employers scramble to attract and retain legal workers?
Working conditions would be improved on America's crappiest jobs?
Americans would use their newly raised wages for the consumer spending that was "lost" when the illegals went home?
Fly-by-night companies that could only exist by employing illegals would rightly go out of business?
Respect for the law would be reinforced all over the land?
Perhaps in a fantasy world that would happen, but only if you ignore basic economics.
As if outsourcing isn't bad enough, companies that rely on these workers would simply move to wherever the labor is. Prices for goods that cannot be produced elsewhere (produce, for instance) would skyrocket because the farmers would have to pay slightly higher wages to attract workers.
Other problems can be conceived as well; I'm not saying that we shouldn't make these transitions, only that they should be gradual, with an eye towards economic stability. Too much of our economy relies on the backs of these workers who are too often exploited. We absolutly must do something, but turning them into felons for attempting to live the American dream isn't the answer, nor is punishing those who believe in basic human rights and offer aid to these people.
I am all for freer labor. Eliminating minimum wage laws would be a help.
I am for tighter border control, but am willing to look towards a better, streamlined and even more open immigration policy.
Interesting piece by George Will - not one I usually agree with (and don't wholly here even), but I think he has some decent ideas and usually find his opinions thought out and respectable.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp...6032902004.html
Perhaps in a fantasy world that would happen, but only if you ignore basic economics...Prices for goods that cannot be produced elsewhere (produce, for instance) would skyrocket because the farmers would have to pay slightly higher wages to attract workers.
Yes, "basic economics" is exactly the point. The presence of the illegals has distorted the US labor market and created artificially low prices in certain sectors.
By looking the other way on illegal wages and work rules, we are subsidizing the production of certain goods and services - subsidizing it with human cost rather than dollars.
Once the law is enforced, the price of the goods would move up to reflect the true cost of production.
Produce would be grown elsewhere and shipped in, like everything else. Produce growers would either adapt, or move their lands to more profitable uses.
Landscapers and hotel maids would be paid more, and the price for their services would be increased. Folks would pay more for hotel rooms or stay home. People would cut their own damn grass.
Landscaping and hotel jobs will start to pay more and offer better treatment. It is not true that Americans won't do those jobs. It's just that Americans won't accept those wages and treatment.
As those jobs are filled by legal workers, they will draw off workers from the labor pool and employers in all other sectors of the economy will begin to experience a labor shortage, and thus will offer higher wages and better working conditions. It's a beautiful thing.
The result would be an overall increase in real wages for the working class - wages which have been either flat or declining for years now, and an increase is long overdue.
And I don't want to hear about economic disaster because higher labor costs would destroy business. The additional costs would not be that dramatic. History shows with previous labor shortages, and as we see in the minimum wage debates, increased wages always lead to greater overall prosperity.
Again, I'm not saying something shouldn't be done, but this change just can't take place overnight. Increased wages would be offset by increased prices if we act rashly. The economy would need time to adjust. All I'm saying, in the end, is that we need to proceed with caution and not rush into anything based on ignorance and misunderstanding.
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