bush is crazy! he is nuts! i'm an eupopean, portuguese, and honestly, i canīt understand how can american people vote for him! isn't it obvious that he only wants oil? isn't it obvious that he is playing some kind of monopoly game?
bush is not very famous arround here!
he is spoyled! he is worst than his father!
by the way hes nick name is: mr. "bushtard"... if you know what i mean!
Vanessa...either speak English or go back to your own country!
Ah yes, the Portuguese. Talk about imperialists, anybody remember Angola? Mozambique? Those guys knew how to fight for somebody else's raw materials.
Mike, really, I think she's trying. I couldn't speak a word of Portuguese if you held a gun to my head. (If you exclude soccer teams, that is.)
In regards to Vanessa comments:
First, being hysterical is not a good way or arguing or for that matter making friends.
Two, I have heard this kind of comment before. How can the American people elect Bush, twice!? Well remember foreigners usually view the leader of another country soley on their foreign policy or personality. However there is much more to it than just that. Domestic policy is what usually wins elections, and in the case of Bush more Americans liked his plan for lower taxes, social conservatism and other factors
Two similar situations:
Election of Hamas....we think they are terrorists, and I believe they are, but maybe their pledge to have social programs and get rid of corruption were the main factors for their win
Jaques Chirac/France...many americans didnt like how he got in our way over Iraq, but I guarantee they would pick his domestic policy over the alternative
Mike: i'm already in my country!
G. Rex: we do have nice soccer teams! And we did commited some mistakes in history!
Steve: i'm not being hysterical! If you want to blame somebody for being hysterical blame the press because they only pass negative images! And i do know that domestic policy is important! And about friendship, honestly that wasn't my point, i just wanted to show you how we see what's going on in America!
SORRY!
P.S.: i'm sorry for my writen mistakes, but it happens even for between people who had born speaking english!
Vanessa,
We don't expect foreigners to understand our selection of President. We are not interested in impressing Europeans by our decisions. We want an AMERICAN president, not a European one, and I would be a little worried if Europe were thrilled with our selection as that would indicate that they thought him in Europe's best interest (rather than ours). Do you care what I think of your leaders? Would you want me weighing in on your selections and telling you you made a bad choice?
And, by the way, congrats for coming on our sites and communicating in our language.
What's the problem? Vanessa was speaking fluent Democrat.
*bush is crazy! he is nuts!
*i canīt understand how can american people vote for him!
*isn't it obvious that he only wants oil?
*he is spoyled! he is worst than his father!
*mr. "bushtard"
None of those statements are good arguments (maybe not hysterical), except for maybe the oil comment. But even that is not very accurate, because we have oil in the US, but Bush's opponents wont allow us to retrieve. If he really wanted that oil, which would be much more profitable for his friends, he could just attach an amendment to every bill in congress until it gets done. Plus many other options.
Also, I envy your ability to use another language. Keep up to the good work. There is no way I could have this kind of conversation in my language of study, Chinese
If Bush went on TV tonight and said that we were going to take over Venezuala, Mexico, and Iran, purely for their oil, and promised lower gas prices, he would probably begin tomorrow morning with approval ratings in the high 70s.
Yep. High 70's among the yellow elephant college republican who get boners at the idea of war - but flee from the reality of it.
"If Bush went on TV tonight and said that we were going to take over Venezuala [sic], Mexico, and Iran, purely for their oil, and promised lower gas prices, he would probably begin tomorrow morning with approval ratings in the high 70s."
If Bush went on TV and said we are going to embark on three more Iraq-style occupations, he would find himself nostalgic for the days of approval ratings in the mid 30s.
The Iraq occupation: How well has it worked in terms of world oil prices?
"get boners at the idea of war - but flee from the reality of it..."
Why do people say this? I have been confronted by many people saying I should join since I support the war. I have seriously considered the option, but my eyesight is very poor. Many of our members are in the military, with a handful who are veterans. I know both democrats and republicans who serve. Please dont generalize, it makes you sound like an idiot
I have seriously considered the option, but my eyesight is very poor.
Not a valid excuse, but if it makes you feel better....lucky you.
What's Ryan's excuse? Flat feet, bad knees, wets his bed, don't ask don't tell ?
By seriously considered, I mean frequent meetings with a recruiter, taking an officers test, submitting an application, and an upcoming physical. However, she has warned me that my eyesight will most likely disqualify me from service. Legally blind w/o corrections usually means they wont let you handle firearms.
Why so bitter my friend?
Steve, just remember that these pink jackasses called Pat Tillman an idiot for quitting the NFL to become an Army Ranger. Then they celebrated the fact that his was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan. They hammered Quayle and Bush for going into the National Guard, but Clinton gets a pass for being an actual draft dodger. Don't get the idea that military service is actually honored here, it's just another line on the talking points sheet from Howard Dean.
Anyway, I sympathize with your vision problem; I went through the whole process to be a Customs officer only to be DQ'd for mild hypertension. Mild!
GREX -
At least you peeled potatoes. Steve feels better about calling for more random carnage, because at least he tried. I wonder what Ryan's plan is? (Those darn flat feet.)
The case for war is always a difficult one to make. Still, the desire to acquire any critical natural resources usually tops the list of the best incentive to go to war. And this is as valid today as it was centuries ago. The importance of oil in today's world cannot be overstated. You cannot even drink milk without oil, just think how of the carton got into your fridge. It's hard to imagine a more valid reason to go to war provided the benefits exceed the costs... Except maybe for Ellen of Troy.
Yeah. Let's just kill a few hundred thousand people, including ten or twenty thousand American kids, so we don't have to be inconvenienced at the gas pump, or go through some changes in terms of our use of resources.
Are you only saying this because so far in your life it's gotten you positive attention? Or are you really this deep an asshole?
Further Ryan, did some grown-ups raise you to believe that as an American you are so priviledged that, unlike all previous generations of human beings you have only power, and no responsibility?
Did they talk at all about other republics in history that became empires - and how quickly they went into the trash can? Do you even know what I'm talking about? Can you name these empires?
You are a boy trying to talk like a man. And you've found some angry bitter idiots to encourage you
Dont all of you realize that we brought up this point as an academic exercise only. The idea (if u can even call it that) was that while people hard called OIF a war for oil, we were joking that if you issued a poll, there may be a chance that a war could be sold on lowering gas prices.
And btw, oil is a fungible assest. Even if we took over a country with lots of oil, it would likely raise prices in the short term, and the supply wouldn't increase all that much.
At no time were we advocating a war just for access to oil. Though keep in mind, President Carter was the first president to make it the policy of the US to protect the oil of the ME
Puzzler, I find your ignorance astounding. I do not think an actual war for oil, though it could be justified, and many probably freed from horrible dictators, would be feasible or even something Americans would want to engage in.
My Bush numbeer comes solely from the fact that his numbers seem to go down when oil prices go up.
America is not a military empire. It is a role that we have shunned, fortunately or unfortunately, for more then a century. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, we are the world's only "superpower," and will remain as such for the forseeable future. We have a lot of power, but the only responsibilities are the ones we choose to place on ourselves. Our founders set upon a path that led America on the way to becoming a becon for freedom. We have acted as such more often than not, and have been a net positive force in the world for freedom.
Being an expansionist empire is far from easy, and it destroys civilizations (with one exception, so far), especially when that empire is under a mercantilist economic mindset or a tax policy that requires expansion (such that bankrupted the Ottoman Empire). The Greeks, the Babylonians, the Romans, the Mongols, the Spanish, the Holy Roman Empire, the afforementioned Ottomans, the French, and the Soviet Union all list among empires that have collapsed. The one exception by my count is the British Empire, because though it has largely dissipated politically, it has thrived culturally, and its former parcels are among the most prosperous nations in the world, including the United States.
Not all of these empires "went into the trash can" as quick as you suggest. Most had some defining collapse event, but were in a state of decline well before that tipping point was reached.
Jiminy Christmas, wasn't the whole point of this exercise to illustrate the silliness of the whole "it was a war for oil" mantra? My impression was that Americans are so worked up right now about the prospect of $4 per gallon gas that if George W. Bush went to the podium and announced, "We're going to war for the oil" everyone would stand up and cheer.
Of course, it makes more sense than "We're going to write everybody a check for $100 to buy gas."
Jiminy Christmas, wasn't the whole point of this exercise to illustrate the silliness of the whole "it was a war for oil" mantra? My impression was that Americans are so worked up right now about the prospect of $4 per gallon gas that if George W. Bush went to the podium and announced, "We're going to war for the oil" everyone would stand up and cheer.
Jimminy Christmas, you hit the nail on the head.
Ryan
Your grasp of history is dizzying.
But I'm left unsure of what you actually believe. Your post quoted others and purported to be a "thought experiment."
Do you, Ryan, believe that killing people on a great scale, in their own country, to maintain an accustomed level of prosperity is morally justified? Do you believe it is practically justified (does it work in the short and long term)?
The measure of a man is his ability to say "yes," "no," or "I don't know" to a clear question.
This will be my last comment on your blog. No argument. Just me waiting.
Just to preface, honest questions are always welcome. It is accusations that irritate me.
Do you, Ryan, believe that killing people on a great scale, in their own country, to maintain an accustomed level of prosperity is morally justified? Do you believe it is practically justified (does it work in the short and long term)?
One of the points that Glenn was making was comparing seizing of foreign oil to that of a windfall profits tax, except that the seizing would probably have more positive side-benefits.
That being said, I feel that though the countries I named have questionable claims as per their sovereignty, if a massive loss of life were to occur for oil, it would be wrong.
So it can be morally justified, but not usually. And it is certainly far from practical right now.
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