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Gee, I'm sorry Jay, next time we are deliberately offended by an overt attack on our religious sensibilities, we will just refuse to engage in our First Amendment rights to speak out against it. We know how "your side" likes to silence speech they do not agree with... Like voting for judges when you don't get your way.
The fact is, this play deliberately chose to run these ads during the most holy time of the Christian calendar, and they called it the “Res-erection tour" for maximum shock value. If these ads were run at any other time, I would have shaken my head and moved on, but not on Good Friday.
They placed this ad when they did for maximum reaction, and reaction they got.
Patrick, these ads ran before Good Friday, too; in fact, the whole spring tour of the show--in other cities, on other dates--is called the "Res-Erection Tour." There was no attempt to purposely align the ad with the holiday. Your side took the coincidence and used it as the impetus to do the actual silencing--the JS now will not run any ad for the show, regardless of the copy.
Well done, bravo; you, Patrick, have silenced the Miramar.
(Aside: I have no idea what this means: "Like voting for judges when you don't get your way." It's not only a non-sequitir, I don't get what you're saying.)
Oh, and by the way... Coincidence my @$$
Jay - have you seen the show??
I made the mistake of turning on HBO late one night when they were showing it. Quite honestly it is disgusting.
It is something that belongs in the back alley next to a $.25 peep show.
It has less 'artistic value' than the 'dancers' at The Encore. At least the female subjects at the Encore dance.
I saw it late at night, too. Disgusting...
Jay...you really want to see this?
If you think the show looks disgusting, I suggest you do not go.
If you think that advertising in the paper for the show is disgusting, don't be such a pussy.
We know how "your side" likes to silence speech they do not agree with....
You are such a wussy, Patrick. The sentence from you italicized above is a perfect sample of how thin-skinned most conservative bloggers are in SE Wisconsin. Anytime someone writes something in disagreement with anything written by Patrick or any of the other minions on the right, it immediately becomes a threat to their free speech rights.
Seems to me you guys were the ones trampling on rights. The ad was pulled by the cowardly Journal Sentinel.
Give me a f---ing break.
And you have got to respect Clint's artistic sensibilities since he obviously knows all about .25 cent peep shows and dancers at The Encore.
So Jay decides to run with this 3 and half weeks after the incident happened because....
I see it as a non-issue some chucklehead at the paper decided to run the ad on Good Friday, the public spoke, the ad was taken down, its over.
Personally being a heterosexual male, seeing a bunch of naked guys dancing around on stage really doesn't do a thing for me.
But well thats just me.
And it only took Jay 3 and a half weeks to write about it.
GREAT JOB JAY!
"At least the female subjects at the Encore dance."
And don't have penises...
That you know of Michael....
Will I go see it. Hell No.
When was the last time that the JS ran an ad for a woman playing with her c**t??
Tell me Jay, Tim whoever. Would you be affended if the JS ran an ad of a naked woman (with fun parts blurred out) on the holiest of muslim holidays?? How about if that ad ran in an islamic paper at that time?
They would certainly protest. But I bet that you & the ACLU would come to their defense of their 1st amendment rights.
But you don't come to christian's defense of their first amendment rights.
Clint, what are you talking about? There's no government intervention here. I suspect that ACLU wouldn't care. At all.
Would I be offended if the paper ran an ad featuring naked people (hypothetically, for La Perla), on a Muslim holy day?
No. Being offended by that would be stupid. You get to celebrate your holy day. No one else has to respect your holy day. If you don't like them, don't buy there product.
Groucho Marx used to wear a Mason ring. One day an acquaintance of his, who happened to be a Mason told him:
"You can't wear that ring, you're not a Mason."
To which he replied:
"No no, it's OK, you see, I'm not a Mason."
Personally, I wouldn't go to the show. I'm afraid of puppets.
Personally, I wouldn't go to the show. I'm afraid of puppets.
I think that was an attempt at humor.
Not a very good one. But an attempt nonetheless.
Did you at least like the one where I called a bunch of people a pussy? I thought that was a nice fit given the topic.
You just don't get it, do you? I don't care if they run this play, if you want to go, then go. I have never even said that the paper shouldn't be allowed to run the ad, did I? What I, and Belling did, was point out that they did indeed offend a lot of people by running the ad WHEN they did.
Apparently you think the four little paragraphs I wrote about this was able to wield a great amount on influence.
Just because you have the right to do something, doesn’t mean it is the right thing to do.
Yes, and what I'm saying is that you are wrong to be offended by it, and that if you actually called the paper to complain, then you are a whiny loser.
There is no censorship issue here. This has nothing, at all, to do with free speech. What I'm saying is that it is wrong to be offended by this, and more wrong still to call up the paper and threaten to cancel over it. Clear?
It is wrong because it's not offensive or obscene. If you are offended by this, the sports section has (or at least had) ads for strip clubs. Why no attention over that, I wonder?
Did the JS run the La Perla ads or was that just the Shep and the Onion?
Besides that, if you are offended by the ad, you're very likely a busybody with too much time on your hands and not enough real problems.
Plus this is an excellent excuse to make dick jokes.
Of course it wasn't the right thing to do. It is tasteless and unworthy of comment. I don't see it as anything to get outraged about.
Personally, I wouldn't go to the show. I'm afraid of puppets.
Little puppets shouldn't be too scary.
My only actions were expressing my opinion in the few paragraphs I wrote on my little blog, and even though others pointed out to me the reaction of some on the Left, I didn't bother to read them, why should I care what anyone else thinks about my opinions? But apparently you seem to care about what I think...
If that makes me a whiny looser in your book, fine. You might not believe this, but I honestly don't care LOL.
Quick question though, Do you think it is wrong for Muslims to be offended by a cartoon drawing of Mohamed? Is it wrong for a black person to be offended by a noose?
Is it wrong for a muslim to be offended by a drawing of muhammed? Yes.
Is it wrong for a black person to be offended by a drawing of a noose? Just a noose? Yes. But context is important. Like on the South Park flag.
I have no problem with you expressing your opinion on your little blog. And I don't care what you think. That doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
Do you actually think it's a valuable use of your time to complain to a newspaper about something they did not even write, about a show that you have no plans to attend?
Well I am offended that you are not offended.
I like not being offended. It makes things funnier.
it is right for Muslims to be offended by a drawing, it is right for a black man to be offended by a noose, but it is wrong for a Christian to be offended by the intentional belittling of our most sacred period. Thanks for clearing that up.
I take offense to all of the offense being taken in this thread.
Also, Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
Patrick, Clint ... I think you have used up your quota of Muslim comparison and contrast questions. Who cares other than you?
Be offended all you want. Besides, you're talking to the wrong person here. All your superstitions are just cosmic jokes.
No, it's wrong for a Muslim to be offended by a drawing. I'm offended by Patrick's reading comprehension.
Does this offend you?
Ralph: Sorry I missed the game last night man, my woman dragged my to a double feature.
Stoney: Bummer. What was it?
Ralph: The Vagina Monologues, followed by Puppetry of the Penis.
Stoney: Ouch. How was it?
Ralph. Man it was a total abortion.
Tim - I am not catholic - I wasn't offended at the ad or the show. I don't think that the show has ANYTHING to do with art, but that is my opinion.
I am offended how much of a stink the left has thrown up over people expressing their opinions. I see it as just another example of the left shouting down and criticizing speech that they don't agree with.
Enough people expressed their opinion and now the left doesn't like it because they didn't get their way.
Enough people express their desire for a smoking ban - the left loves the people.
Enough people express their dislike of the JS running ads for a show like POTP on Good Friday - the left criticizes the people
Enough people say they want 'free' health care - the left loves the people.
Enough people say they want concealed carry - the left hates the people.
For the record, when generalizing about "the left," I may not be the best poster boy. I suspect that the actual lefties round here would object to such a characterization.
They're probably really offended. maybe they'll boycott Jay's blog for containing these offensive ideas that Jay did not write.
Yeah, Paul ... you dirty lefty ... not.
I am offended how much of a stink the left has thrown up over people expressing their opinions. I see it as just another example of the left shouting down and criticizing speech that they don't agree with.
Thin-skinned a little? So, you are able to express your opinions, but the left is not allowed to? Tough.
Enough people expressed their opinion and now the left doesn't like it because they didn't get their way.
That's a very playground remark.
Enough people express their desire for a smoking ban - the left loves the people.
You make no point. Why would I/we not? It's good for our children's health and our own.
Enough people express their dislike of the JS running ads for a show like POTP on Good Friday - the left criticizes the people
Thin-skinned a little? So, again ... you are able to express your opinions, but the left is not allowed to? Tough.
Enough people say they want 'free' health care - the left loves the people.
I don't know of anyone saying anything about free health care. Turn down the paranoia just a bit.
Enough people say they want concealed carry - the left hates the people.
Thin-skinned a little? No one hates anyone. So, again and again ... you are able to express your opinions, but the left is not allowed to? Tough.
Why do you hate the left so much, Clint?
Doesn't that sound stupid to say? But that is the argument you people use over and over.
So Jay decides to run with this 3 and half weeks after the incident happened because....
... because the ad just started running, and opening night of the show is about a week away. Plus, since the paper did not run the text of the letter to the editor, I felt it need to be published somewhere. May as well be here.
And notice, everybody, exactly what my call to action is in this post:
So I'm helping Bill promote the show since your local daily paper--the same daily that gave it a fairly favorable review a few years back--apparently doesn't want you to go see it. I say, go; support local independent venues like the Miramar.
That's it. I'm not calling for anyone to be silenced, for anyone to check their outrage, or even for anyone who finds the idea of the show gross or to be something less than art to be forced to sit through it. I'm not even suggesting that I'm offended at anything other than a serious lack of judgment on the part of the JS.
Clint: Paul's right--context has a lot to do with it. Despite what Charlie Sykes says (I think it's rule #24 in has last shelf-filler), people do occasionally have the right to be offended. A drawing of Mohammed? Offensive according to a strict reading of some flavors of Islam, but I bet pretty well every Muslim would let such a thing go. A drawing of Mohammed with a molatov cocktail in his turban? That crosses a pretty bright line, and you should not be surprised to see protest (like the protests of, say Corpus Christie, Piss Christ, The Last Temptation of Christ, etc.) That doesn't mean such drawings should not be drawn or published, but it does bespeak some pretty serious cultural ignorance if you're shocked that someone would take offense.
"Res-erection Tour" on Good Friday? That does seem in poor taste, and unfortunately no one thought ahead or caught the coincidence in time to stop it. The producers apologized for doing it (not that anyone would know, since the paper also declined to publish the letter). But the paper's decision to pull all ads, regardless of the copy or the timing, makes no sense to me.
No one hates anyone.
I wish this was true. After taking a hard look at the vitriol that is spouted about from certain people, I don't know what else could cause it other than hatred or intolerance.
I don't hate the left - if find that their hatred of the right expressing their opinions and the double standards that they engage in rather amusing.
People express themselves about an ad = bad
People express negativly that they think the Right had a voice = good
My points since you didn't get it... When the people like a policy/position that the left likes - you are all for the people's voice and using that to your purpose.
When the people speak to a policy/position that the left doesn't like, all of a sudden the people either don't matter or just a bunch of wing nuts.
Nobody on the right is thin skinned... just pointing out the continued never ending hypocrisy and double standards of the left.
Finally - Where the left constantly get it wrong - It is MY JOB to raise MY children. It is not OUR job.
Obviously you don't care about my rights.
I don't hate the left - if [sic] find that their hatred of the right expressing their opinions and the double standards that they engage in rather amusing.
But Clint, and this will be the end of this, where do you see all this hate?
I thought Patrick and you and those who reacted to this ad over-reacted. I agree with Jay that the timing of the ad wasn't good, but an apology was made.
But our stating that we thought this was an over-reaction is somehow translated into hate for conservatives and silencing of conservatives? This is where you seem to have no sense of perspective.
It's a shame because it really lowers the level of debate and makes you sound foolish.
Cartoons lampooning Mohammed are comparable to a newzpaper selling ad space for a third-rate stage production? And how is that, exactly?
They're both funny?
I made the mistake of turning on HBO late one night when they were showing it. Quite honestly it is disgusting.
So, Clint, you turned on Real Sex by accident?
LOL ... wingers, so pathetic and thin-skinned. ESPECIALLY pathetic that you think the human body, supposedly created by your magical Invisible Daddy, is disgusting and horrible.
Sad, sad little people.
As for us lefties defending muslims protesting cartoons, THIS lefty thinks those superstitious nuts are morons too ("bright lines" or no).
I am constantly amazed how weak and whiny Xtians are, even though you have the "Truth", get to live together for all time in Heaven at the right hand of the Cosmic Muffin while the rest of us burn for eternity. Jeez, isn't eternity enough for you? Why don't you chill and look forward to the endless Good Times?
Wimps, really, and to think you supposedly follow in the tradition of people who were fed to lions.
speaking of massive forced busing, it was liberals in the 1970's who started it...as in most failed liberal programs they have to change their arguement. Very good educators such as my father and others who teach in your own building, Jay, will all admit in unison that busing is what killed MPS in the 1970's and early 1980's. You don't even have to set it up for them. Ask a teach of that time when MPS started to go downhill...they will ALL say busing. It's too bad libeals screwed up inner city public education so badly.
I change my arguement by removing the "e".
It wasn't the busing that killed education, btw, but white FEAR of busing, but that argument (arguement?) could go on and on ... I'm convinced that public education in this country was defunded and destroyed because whites refused to share after the courts said that they had to.
I will post my full comment on the issue, especially since a 55 year old teacher talked about this EXACT topic to day in school without me bringing it up...
And you might be correct about the white fear thing, but the results are still the same and now libeals have to take the other side of the debate:
I find this amazing.
All liberal ideas fail, and usually the ideas hurt the people they are trying to help...also, liberals usually have to take the exact opposite position after their failed ideas really go to crap.
take busing...
In the late 1970's and early 1980's liberals decided that black students would get better test scores and be more successful in school if they sat on a bus for up to 2 hours so they could sit in class with more white kids. They will use the word diversity and that they want to do desegregate the schools...but of course, not the schools are more segregated than ever. Ask ANY school teacher of the time when did MPS (or any inner city public school) when did the school system start to go down the toilet, they will ALL say when they started busing. Liberals started the slow destruction of inner city public schools with one bad idea after another.
they offer an idea, it fails, two years later, another one, fails, another one, fails...they have ALL failed.
Are minority students now better off in a school district that has NO diversity AT ALL? (hint to liberals: diversity is when you have many different groups represented, INCLUDING white people).
It is silly to see them getting all up in arms AGAINST busing, when it was one of their first failed attempts and solving inequality in schools...now all we have in inequality....thanks.
What is the next a-hole idea that I have to sit and listen to meeting after meeting that will fail and be replaced with the next flavor of the month?
All liberal ideas fail
Univeral sufferage.
40 hour work week.
Workplace safety rules.
Child labor restrictions.
Free speech.
Public health laws.
Drug safety laws.
Food safety laws.
Outlawing slavery.
I could go on, but take comfort in your easy nostrum. Take this to heart, though. We're in the mess we are NOT because of leftist/liberal/progressive ideas, but because people who stand to lose some advantage FIGHT solutions to real problems, real injustices. People now on the right were fine with taxes and an active government when it was giving "good" (ie "white") people college funds and healthcare and social security and welfare ... but when people like Thurgood Marshall finally got our courts to rule that "equal protection under the law" meant equal protection even for black/brown/red/yellow people, then suddenly taxes became totally evil, gov't was the antichrist and we all had better arm ourselves and hide behind our suburban walls.
You can blame "liberals" for calling the US on it's empty promises, but face facts about where the real problem lies.
Wasn't it liberal thinking that cobbled together this free republic of ours? Revolutionary, in fact.
I'll take the time to pick this crap apart...of course you don't focus on the main idea of the post, which is about busing, but focus on only one sentence
first you say:
All liberal ideas fail
Univeral sufferage....should I act like a liberal and make fun of you for not being able to spell...no, I'm much, much smarter than that...I can win a debate with logic.
40 hour work week....no liberals want a 30 hour work week.
Workplace safety rules....yes, republicans WANT unsafe conditions...
Child labor restrictions...I know, I know...conservatives hate children.
Free speech...No, liberals like free speech for THEIR ideas only...otherwise they try and stop it..that is the whole idea of PC.
Public health laws....babble
Drug safety laws...now your just typing whatever comes to mind
Food safety laws...are you okay?
Outlawing slavery...I think Lincoln was a Republican...wow.
then you said:
people who stand to lose some advantage FIGHT solutions to real problems, real injustices.
Missing the whole point...it is the liberal ideas that CREATE MORE problems...they do not solve problems. Take a pill and focus on the topic. How did liberal busing SOLVE a problem? It didn't, as usually for liberal social failures, it created more...
That is a good enough beat down, the rest of the post is just silly babble...
I love how so many folks from the right have complained about how we on the left want to stifle any speech we don't agree with, yet some of those same folks are the ones who gnashed their teeth and complained because the JS ran an ad they didn't like, so they in turn took steps which led to the ad being pulled, thus stifling speech they didn't agree with.
Ironic, I say...ironic!
I'm still laughing at what Game considers to be logic.
Just like everyone laughed at your support of Lena Taylor who couldn't beat a conservative in a liberal county...
This busing issue is sound, I don't expect you to have the ability to address it.
Hey Jay, how do I get recent comments to come up on the side of my blog???
"love how so many folks from the right have complained about how we on the left want to stifle any speech we don't agree with"
Easy, the left proposes laws to stifle speech, like the Fairness Doctrine. They throw hissy fits and pies when a conservative comes to a iniversity. The right complains, withholds money, ridicules and let the market do it's work.
Easy, the left proposes laws to stifle speech, like the Fairness Doctrine.
up is down, right is left, black is white, spouting nonsense is political speech ...
whatever, you morons won. Look around, and enjoy the spoils.
oh sweet victory...
MITM - Yes I do watch Real Sex. Some of the shows are entertaining and thought provoking. The night that POTP was on, was a night that I went to bed and since HBO was the channel that I had watched last was the first channel that came up when I turned the TV on. Also to show how little you know. I am NOT religous. Yes some of us on the right can be conservative without an "invisible daddy". And with a comment like that it shows how open minded and compassionate you are.
Can we go back to making dick jokes now?
Paul, those have been, um, blocked.
Heh.
Or at least covered up.
I'm still trying to figure out how this went from a debate about advertising and free speech to school busing programs.
Seems like a pretty vas deferens between the two, to me at least.
Oooh. Good one, Emily. Straight up.
btw: Game has nothing. It's best just to move on to the next comment when he shows up.
If you clicked on Jay's links, he is going to...awww forget it, I have made a perfect argument and no one here can offer anything up for the liberal side...thank you liberals, you do wonders for my self esteem. I thought someone would try and make some point, but I guess my posts are so perfect you are unable to defend your terrible positions. Here is a great comment put on my blog from an "anon"
Yes Game,
The next failed idea is bilingual education. When will Latinos start to complain and understand that every other ethnicity is learning English in MPS except the Latinos. They have closed two bilingual middle school programs and are moving them to Bell(Wedgewood Middle School) where most of the neighborhood kids speak English. Even the Serbian, Poles, Muslims, and Croatians who are immigrants in these neighborhoods teach their children English. Why move a failed program in an area of successful schools. Let's have English immersion programs which will actually help these children instead of creating another balkanized city. Arizona and Massachusettes have already eliminated their bilingual programs. English test scores have already improved.
Will MPS follow? No way, because it is a sinking ship. I was in MPS during forced busing and the schools were not integrated. The system needs to be dismantled.
oh, and I have "nothing" but Tim is the piece of shit who puts Hitler next to Scott Walker...oh forgive me, you are a genius
You obviously couldn't follow the thread to the next post, Gameboy. See, you still got nothing.
Sorry game, I thought you were making dick jokes too, didn't know you were serious. It is amazing that you could be more off topic than I was though. Maybe you should start your own blog. Call it, The Short Bus, or something like that, you know, something on topic.
Which game are you anyway? Hungry Hungry Hippos?
Hungry Hungry Hippos?
That was funny.
The funny thing is you guys take yourselves seriously.
Still waiting for someone to dispute anything I said about busing...oh wait, I'm right.
The wheels on the bus go round and round,
round and round,
round and round.
The wheels on the bus go round and round,
all through the town.
The wipers on the bus go Swish, swish, swish;
Swish, swish, swish;
Swish, swish, swish.
The wipers on the bus go Swish, swish, swish,
all through the town.
The baby on the bus says "Wah, wah, wah;
Wah, wah, wah;
Wah, wah, wah".
The baby on the bus says "Wah, wah, wah",
all through the town.
Game is right. He's wrong on everything, but he is right (wing, that is).
I'll start by refuting one thing.
B-U-S-S-I-N-G
No Grumps, he's talking about arresting actor Gary Busey for a DUI, or as the LAPD has come to refer to it; Busing.
Besides Game, you seem to be doing alot of declaring victory and pulling out on this post. I thought you guys were against that.
Except as a method of birth control, of course.
OK, I'm done now.
Man is my self esteem high now...better every time I check back here..
No one, not one of you can even attempt to debate me. Ha ha ha ha
Didja ever think that no one has that much free time to verbally slap you around? Perhaps you're just that inconsequential that no one cares.
Okay, time for me to chime in here...
First of all, we all have free speech which is why this discussion is happening at all... In fact it is because of the ACLU that the conservatives freak out over all the time (until they need them as Limbaugh proved once again when he needed some civil liberties protected...), that we are even able to have the ability to have a forum this incredibly diverse and hilarious!
I want to thank all of you for the pure entertainment this thread has provided me on a boring Saturday morning. I LOVE free speech and this thread is what it's ALL about! Has anyone not been heard here?
Ridicule is part of the process babes... on both sides.
On bussing: It didn't work because unlike in the South, Milwaukee suburbanites refused categorically to let it be a two way street. If white kids had been bussed from the suburbs to the city at the same time minorities were being bussed out of the city to the suburbs, we would have achieved integration, but liberals here took what they could get in one of the most segregated and racist communities in the nation and the result was a one way street, white flight and the phenomena I call "Waukesha County"...
So that's why bussing failed.
On POTP and the VM's, my children all knew the real names of thier body parts from the day they were born. No wee wees, no private parts, my girls all had vaginas as much as they had ears, and they knew it. If you're still oppressed and offended by the words for your own body parts, go ask your mother why.
As for dick jokes... keep them coming...
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