Gravatar Classy. Is said Flygirl AKA Lizardgirl?


Gravatar I'm sure everyone has been to one of those dinner parties.
yes. Your dinner parties.


Gravatar Usually only when you guys are about!


Gravatar Fyodor,
I'm going to try a new tactic with you: I won't answer your questions unless you come out and have a beer with me.

"yes. Your dinner parties."
Photo's of Meg drunkenly dancing are available upon request.

"Usually only when you guys are about!"
Sophie is a pretty good catalyst for this sort of behaviour. I blame her. I will explain in more detail when you come round this Saturday for your turn to play 'Random destruction and loudness at harry's place.'


Gravatar Strangely enough, Tina, of two comments up, is the only women I've ever said this to:

Your arse is so nice I'd like to put it on my head and wear it around as a hat.
Now, I don't know what that means, but, [cartman voice] it does sound kinda good.


Gravatar "Classy"

Sadly, more arse than class.


Gravatar meg - you shared a house with him. you should know better! heh.


harry - I thought LM-H(tm) had put exposing himself behind him (single entendre intended) apon reaching the ripe, mature age of 25?



"Photo's of Meg drunkenly dancing are available upon request."

photos of everyone dancing and dressed like fairies available on request.


tina - run now or become a hat.


Gravatar Clarsy?

You drive a hard bargain, cher cousin. I'll have to cogitate on it. Don't wait up; I may be a while.


Gravatar Matt is regressing me thinks. Dammit, I was looking forward to seeing him too, but not *that* much of him. God lord, the bad habits he could teach Charlie. Good lord, the bad habits Charlie could teach him. Doesn't bear thinking about really.

BTW where was N when all this was going on?


Gravatar I agree Mindy. I was going to say that he peaked at aged 25-7 and is now going backwards. which means we get to see more and more of him. Unfortunately, coz it was old the first time!


Gravatar Speedy, fear not, I wasn't there last night, I believe harry was pointing out that I wasn't squeaky clean. (I'm squeaky, just not innocently-clean.)

However... the downside (only one?) of sharing a house with the hazzardous one for 3 years is that occasionally I had a couple of drinks. And there was music... I'm hoping that I have the only copies.. See, when your bed is in the same house it's soooo easy to have that second spritzer.


Gravatar ahhhh...

the second sprizter...

of course by 'second' you're really thinking of a much greater number, aren't you oh megling?


Gravatar My comment got eaten!
"I thought LM-H(tm) had put exposing himself behind him (single entendre intended) apon reaching the ripe, mature age of 25?"
# That was wishful thinking on the part of his (now ex-)wife. One party she was wrapped around his ankles weeping 'You promised! You promised!' as MattressHammer stood like a victorious pirate and let fly with a warcry.
One evening I drunkenly worked it out and got him into trouble over it. You see, he _had_ promised to "not expose himself any more once he turned 25". And he didn't expose himself any more. He also didn't expose himself any less.

"Unfortunately, coz it was old the first time!"
# Speak for yourself Meg! I haven't seen how he can hold sesame seeds in his circumcision scar as other have.
As with all things, there is always something more to see.

"tina - run now or become a hat."
# That was several years ago. I wouldn't do it now. It would be an entirely inappropriate thing to say to a recent mother.

"BTW where was N when all this was going on?"
#
Sophie: Hi Matt! Where's your woman?
M: She dumped me two days ago. Thanks for bringing that up.

[ten minutes later]
M: ...and that's another thing I like about dinner parties: no-one asks painful questions.

"Don't wait up; I may be a while"
# No. I can't refuse those big sad eyes. Yes, Flygirl is Lizardwoman-that-was.
I have a better idea than having beers. How about coming to a dinner party of mine? I suspect you will fit right in.


Gravatar "It would be an entirely inappropriate thing to say to a recent mother."

so it's okay when her child is... 16? 18? 21? by then, her bottom might not be so attractive to you - your tastes may have changed. or you run the risk of said child beating you up!


Gravatar Considering the arm that young Beanecke has on him, I think harry has about 3 years before he's the underdog.


Gravatar Beanecke or Warbean?


Gravatar Beanecke's Dad: You'd better go and beat up harry.
Beanecke: Why, dad?
Beanecke's Dad: Because otherwise your mother will.
Beanecke: She's a coiled spring, that woman.
BD: Don't call her 'that woman', she's your mum. Besides, you have half her genes.
B: Yeah, but I have half your genes too.
BD: True.
[contemplative silence]
B: Dad? The house is on fire.
BD: Oh. Bummer.
B: Yep. Bummer.
[short silence]
BD: Those'd be my genes, there.
[short laught from both]
B: So should I beat up harry or help you put the fire out.
BD: Both. HEY HARRY! HELP US PUT THE FIRE OUT!
B: Ahhh, and I beat him up afterwards.
BD: Yep, everyone's a winner.
B: ...except harry.
BD: Oh. Bummer.
B: Yep. Bummer.

Speedy? Is that a starfish shaped pie, or a pie shaped starfish? It'd doing my mind in.


Gravatar isn't it the yummiest shortcrust looking starfish you've ever seen? it does my head in, too...


...it will drive you INSANE!


*runs away quickly*


Gravatar "No. I can't refuse those big sad eyes."

How about the bitchin' boots? Muy bueno, seņor! You kill my tuna, prepare to die.

"I have a better idea than having beers. How about coming to a dinner party of mine? I suspect you will fit right in."

Yes, I'm getting the picture, and it's frightening. It's the "fitting in" that I'm worried about.

Hope things went well with Superfly.


Gravatar Speedy... is the shortcrust made with plain or some SR flour? And butter or 'spread'?


Gravatar meg - I'm a pastry nazi, but for the sake of mass production for people who won't appreciate it anyway, I hide it well ;')

probably plain, but most definitely butter. no nasty marg!

I'm thinking cheese and herb shortcrust. pretty sure there's some star-shaped cutters lurking in the Pantry of Doom(tm) aka I think it's a tardis but I haven't work out the controls...


Gravatar "Hope things went well with Superfly."

nonononono, now I just get mental pictures of harry dating a 70's pimp.


Gravatar Speedy anything is possible. harry can you pass onto Matt that I am very unhappy that he allowed himself to be dumped only weeks before I finally got to meet N. Did she find out about the ex?


Gravatar mental pictures of harry dating a 70's pimp. Matt's more like a 90's pimp!

Mindy, considering I saw N with LM-H on Sat night, you never know, you may get to meet her. She seems to be a particularly slow learner.


Gravatar a) harry's not dating anyone. Flygirl was getting an education in hiphop...and some things not covered by HECS.
b) I won't hear a word said against N, she is great fun and I like her.
c) I have nothing to say re: LM-H and N except the funny stuff.


Gravatar Fyodor,

"How about the bitchin' boots?"
# They are very nice boots. Sorry about the tuna, by the way.

"Yes, I'm getting the picture, and it's frightening. It's the "fitting in" that I'm worried about. "
# Sir, your table is waiting.
You know you want to.

Oh, and I don't think _anyone_ is on bum-on-head terms in much the same as no planet is on getting-hit-by-massive-asteroid terms. It's just that these things happen every so often.


Gravatar b) I won't hear a word said against N, she is great fun and I like her. ahhh settle petal. If you read what I said you'll see that I'm not passing judgement on her character or anything like that. I'm sure she's lovely.. just with slightly dubious taste in men *grin*


Gravatar Meg,
You wrote: "She seems to be a particularly slow learner."

This is fairly unequivocal. It's a gentle dig, sure, but you are still passing judgement on her character.

Hey, I sound like Purple Mark.

My comment was also a shot over Mindy's bows.


Gravatar "Hey, I sound like Purple Mark."

Now do the sound of doves crying.

I think Meg was passing judgement on her judgement. This is not quite the same as passing judgement [hey! pass the judgement!] on her character.

If she were passing judgement on her character, she'd be saying something like "Neutral-Good, Charisma: 15 etc."


Gravatar passing judgement on her judgement. yah well put! *applause*

.. see, there's no need for me to learn to be coherent.. I have others to translate *cough*

To read makes our speaking English good


Gravatar Hey I'm just interested in meeting this girl I've heard so much about. Shot over my bows indeed. I'm sure I can out roll you on dexterity. Although I do have the dubious distinction of killing off a guaranteed 'non-killable' character in a D and D game. I suck that much at D and D.


Gravatar Slipperier than an eel.
Nah, I don't buy that judging judgement is not judging character.
The aspect of her character you are referring to is her judgement.
Other aspects of character would be honesty, street-smartness and rationality.


Gravatar min: I presume all this talkin' means you're coming to the big smoke for a visit some time soon? cool. surely there will be a super-destructive dinner party for the occasion...

I wanted to meet N too, out of absolutely blatant curiosity of course. I *am* that shallow.

meg: fear not, missy, written coherence is overrated and besides, *we* know what you mean, she said condecendingly...

harry: of course there are other aspects to character, including "why a sane woman of good sense would choose to go out with Matt" and "learning how to cut and run at the first instance". heh. but, I have not met the girl in question...

fyodor: oh *do* drop the mystery and reveal theyself. except for any piercings, or they might get twisted for fun and profit. and the joyful sound of pain. otherwise we *all* have to put up with harry's pleadings - and hey, I love to torture the boy as much as the next but he must have some victories n'est pas?

also, wear running shoes (see aspects of character, above).


Gravatar What mystery? I'm one of many dudes blogging under a pseudonym. Harry may be under the impression that touching elbows will provide some supreme enlightenment about my character, but I'm just another plonker messin' aboot.


Gravatar Speedy you have exposed me for the shameless stickybeak that I am. Of course I'm curious, but after knowing Matt for over 10 years I think I have the right to be curious about his girlfriends. If not, too bad I want to know anyway.

Hopefully there will be some dinner party goodness, but I'm not sure what to do with the toddler. Cranky toddlers do not good dinner parties make, but he would love to see Matt and harry and Meg, and meet you. He likes the Horde and Lemmings very much. Maybe if Tina can bring Alex we can have happy toddlers and a dinner party. Or maybe just one huge disaster. Maybe we could make N clucky??? Now that would be funny.


Gravatar "I'm just another plonker messin' aboot."

long may you mess, dood. there is a certain reassurance in anonymity, I appreciate that. although the touching elbows thing sounds strangely erotic. heh.


"after knowing Matt for over 10 years I think I have the right to be curious about his girlfriends. If not, too bad I want to know anyway."

correct response.

min, I think I've met the little C, didn't you bring him to one of the Pink House parties? I'm so sure I have. at any rate he'll have no recall of me so it's time to imprint myself into his subconscious, hopefully in a good way. but if N is (presumably still in her 20's) it's more likely to make her run than clucky...


Gravatar Speedy, of course N is in her twenties. This is Lord Mattress-Hammer we are talking about!


Gravatar meg, I was wondering if she was actually in her 20's *yet*. ahem


Gravatar I was wondering what to wear for Melbourne Cup later this year, but somehow Harry I just can't see it being you. Advice given to me by some queen at some stage was always take panadol before putting a crown on because they make your head ache, I somehow think it would have to be something stronger than panadol in your case- very Heavy!
Mindy, Alex is coming to dinner so they can keep each other company. A couple of trains and some adults to laugh with him and Alex is set for the evening.


Gravatar Tina,
"... in your case- very Heavy!"

# You spelt 'hairy' incorrectly.


Gravatar Speedy,
"although the touching elbows thing sounds strangely erotic. heh."

The phrase 'touching elbows' has it's genesis is some guy (whose name obviously escapes me) suggesting that bloggers were sad individuals who missed out on the realness of being in the real world touching elbows: ie discussing real things with real people in a pub.
Purple Mark, who I think is trying to become Patron Saint of Blogging, and various other bloggers including Zoe Crazybrave naturally rose to the occasion to beat off this most ill-conceived attack. The result is that 'touching elbows' now means to meet bloggers in the flesh.
Thus when I went down to Canberra to meet Zoe and AmpersandDuck I announced my identity by rubbing my elbow on approaching their table, thus showing it to be the all important body part. Then, we did indeed touch elbows, first physically and then metaphorically for several hours.

Oh, and N is 23.


Gravatar "Harry may be under the impression that touching elbows will provide some supreme enlightenment about my character..."

Oh, ok, I'll spill the beans.

The thing is I am King Arthur re-incarnated and I am trying to awaken the knights to their true selves. Does the name 'Tristan' mean anything to you?
Tristan!
Tristan!
Are you in there?!


Gravatar hazman, I first met fellow nerds off the net about a decade ago.

but I wouldn't let them rub *anything*.


Gravatar We have better nerds now.
Faster.
Cleaner.
We have the technol


Gravatar Ooh dizzy spell.
Where did everyone go?


Gravatar pass the smelling salts, Master Harry seems to have had another one of his turns...



I'm so glad they're cleaner. maybe I will want to meet them one day. I'm tired of dirty, shabby nerds. I want to meet fresh, clean, sweet young things with a spring in their step and a sparkle in their eye! still dewy and enthused with life!

they do have those things around here somewhere, don't they?


Gravatar harry has lovely elbows

so does flygirl

any questions about her, ladies and Tristan, may be directed to me here. heh.


Gravatar There's no Tristan without Isolde, Sir Harry. Strangely enough, we do seem to have a King Mark, however.

Besides, I've always seen myself more as Le Chevalier Malfait.


Gravatar Speedy, if I pass out before reaching my tent at festy then I can probably pull off dewy. I don't know if I can stretch to fresh clean and sweet though. But I am the youngest person in these 'ere parts.


Gravatar ahhh meg, I remember the heady days of being up late enough at festy to collect the morning dew...

mostly it was frigging cold.

long may you reign as the youngest!

although I believe DV can give you a run for your money, based on a conversation I remember around the duck-on-a-spit night. ahhhh... duck-on-a-spit... how I wish every night could be like that!


Gravatar Ow, I felt that spit.


Gravatar Tina - sounds good, Charlie can do the train thing too. I'm sure we can have some fun. So now all we need is for harry to organise a dinner party between the 26th and 29th of July and we are set.


Gravatar heh. don't worry Ampersand, I'm very sure it wasn't a relative.

I am very sure, however, that it was mighty delicious.


Gravatar What did Aristotle say about birds?
Something about not killing them because they might be your grandmother reincarnated.
Well, that's what Fest in Twelfth Night says.


Gravatar Ahhh Aristotle obviously never tasted duck-on-a-spit ala Topsy/Speedy.

(I'm sure that Duckie on a spit ain't anywhere near that tasty)


Gravatar haz: I didn't kill it, I just *ate* it.

mmmmmm and we'll do it again next time! but we'll get a roasting pan for the dripping fat to roast potatoes. and myabe I'll stuff it as well. yum!

I'm seriously missing having a kitchen to myself. done some nice dishes out at TMFP(tm)'s place but it's not the same. I want to bake cakes! I want to make little biscuits and ice them! I want to make dolmades again! but you need more than 3cm bench space. and access to all your cookbooks. and the ingredients. and...

Mindy, you and I should do a duelling house blog


Gravatar "any questions about her, ladies and Tristan, may be directed to me here. heh."

# Ok, I have a question about Tristan. Does being slipped the love potion by the nurse differ in any significant way to being the subject of Fate? After all, Tristan and Yseult could no more escape the path of their lives than the Greek heroes of old.
Are we, indeed, play things of trhe Gods? And does that mean that we cannot judge or comdemn those subject to the whims of the dieties?

Part B (5 marks): Does Fate suck, or what?


Gravatar The love potion is incidental (and, IMO, superfluous) to the essential story arc, which is a traditional Celtic love triangle.

The British and Irish Celtic mythologies have a recurring theme surrounding the vitality of the king. Namely, that a king's strength is derived from the youthful vitality of a young wife. This taps into a much older tradition of feminine spiritual power, stemming from fertility and the gift of life. When this power is married to the political (i.e. wife to king), the whole realm benefits.

However, young vital women are, of course, attracted to young vital men, and as the king ages, his wife's eye wanders. Inevitably, the young wife falls in love with the most valiant/forceful/beautiful warrior in the king's retinue. This abandonment/betrayal embodies not just the king's physical decay, but also the corruption of the bonds of honour/fealty binding a warrior to his liege. The story turns full circle with the old king being overthrown and replaced by the young warrior. Of course, the new king then chucks the old crone and upgrades to a newer model, but that's another story, poppets. Cycle of life, yadda yadda.

The themes in Mark/Isolde/Tristan recur in Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot, or even Arthur/Guinevere/Mordred. The king (i.e. alpha-male) is the man in possession of the queen (i.e. alpha-female), who is contestable.

Christian storytellers in the middle ages added a superstructure to this story rationalising the behaviour of the participants, hence love potions, holy grails etc. This gave the stories more depth, but didn't change the essentials.

How does fate play into this? Well, if you're the alpha-warrior in an old Celtic king's retinue and he's just acquired a young wife, you're in for trouble.

"Are we playthings of the gods?"

Nah, that's all fairytale rubbish.

"And does that mean that we cannot judge or comdemn those subject to the whims of the dieties?"

If you're talking about characters in stories, the act of judgement is redundant, as the characters are not real - they are archetypes meant to inform via the essential narrative. Can we judge other people? Of course we can - free will and all that.

"Does Fate suck, or what?"

I'll tell you when I get what's coming to me.


Gravatar "And does that mean that we cannot judge or comdemn those subject to the whims of the dieties?"

No, but it does mean that we can laugh at them. And remember i before e except after a c, and in exceptional cases like deities and weird. How crap is a language that doesn't even stick to its own rules.


Gravatar Hey Zoe, nice Fyodor you're wearing.

"Nah, that's all fairytale rubbish."
# Nah, it's Shakespeare.

A very good effort. All up I give you a 9/10.

I agree with you about the redundant nature of the potion. I haven't encountered much in the way of potions in Celtic stuff (certianly none spring to mind) - they seem more wedded to the idea of free-will, and people being bastards just because they are bastards eg hamstringing the Smith. It is interesting how the Arthurian umbrella was thrown over these stories; then (and probably concurrently) the Christian elements filtered through; then a whole bunch of recognisably theatrical ideas get introduced.


Gravatar Whoops, sorry. Didn't realise you meant the question for CBZ.


Gravatar the potion isn't redundant, it makes the transformation expressly magical, which is different to the twists and turns of Fate, which by definition is too big and crushing for our poor little mortal brains to take the measure of.


Gravatar But isn't love always magical, Laura?

The potion's a redundant artifice sympathetically inserted by medieval Christian prudes to rationalise: a) Isolde's infidelity; and b) Tristan's disloyalty.

If the poor dears are controlled by fate (i.e. forced by the potion) then we *must* forgive - and can thereby, from a moral perspective, enjoy - their sinful affair.

Perversely from our perspective, under this later tradition of the story, Tristan and Isolde's artificial amour is morally acceptable, whereas that of Lancelot and Guenevere, which is entirely natural and unforced, is not.


Gravatar What Fyodor said.

Take a song that you really like - one that resonates within you.
Now, honestly deny that you like it.
You can't.
Why? Because you are laura.

Now, take a song that you currently are indifferent to. Drink the potion that makes you love it. now, honestly deny that you like it.
You can't.
Why? Because of the potion.

We are the sum of our parts and that is something that has to be dealt with in reality, and the whole introduction of a device such as a magic potion smacks of (a) literary laziness and (b) intellectual cowardice.
The moral of the story is you simply _can't_ always get what you want - even more so in those times. But how you dealt with this potentially massive dissappointment was the measure of you.
Ergo, who you are is what you have made yourself.
I like this song because it is part of me.
I love this person because they.. well, because I just do.

I think it's incredibly empowering.
It enables you to look the world in the eye and say "Here I stand."

God was invented because people were too scared to say "Here I stand". He serves the same purpose as the potion. He is a denial of our humanity.
The potion is a denial of the humaness of such stories, and the point of these stories is to teach us about ourselves.

harry


Gravatar Harry anonymous?

I am talking narratology, not cosmology or theology nor any other wild thing you might want to bring in.

In terms of what they do and how they work in stories, potions are magical agents. To say you disapprove of them is to unneccessarily restrict the kinds of story components you're willing to countenance. If you rule out magical agents you are ruling out a whole category of human thought, & I don't understand why you'd want to do that.

The function of a potion (or other magical is to bring about a change that is neither wholly controlled by human actions nor by cosmic laws and forces. In psychoanalytic terms a potion is like a transitional object, it belongs neither wholly to the private internal world of wishes and phantasy, not to the uncontrollable outer reality, rather it corresponds with elements of both and by doing that it unites them.

It doesn't make sense to say that the invention of God is a denial of humanity Harry, especially if he's a human invention. Humans are very good at (needily) inventing things we can't understand - those things give us a place to channel feelings and emotions about all the elements of our reality that we can't control or rationalise, beginning with death.

I would argue that sanity depends of having the ability to both wish to control external reality and also to recognise that this is beyond our powers.


Gravatar " Harry anonymous? "
# My comments were being eaten, so I tried posting anonymously.

"I am talking narratology"
# Sure, but I maintain that the *point* of the story is eroded by the use of the potion.

Generally speaking I can think of far better tools to dictate character's actions eg mental illness, a promise, code of honour etc
In essence, I find that magic items are a shortcut in the same way as randomly finding a map to the treasure is.

"If you rule out magical agents you are ruling out a whole category of human thought..."
# Such as what?
The reason I would do it is because magic is, as I said, often simply laziness on the part of the author.

"...rather it corresponds with elements of both and by doing that it unites them."
# Oh, I agree with you. But far too often it is not written as such. I'm all for well written books that use magic, but the essence of the Ysolde/Tristan story is lost by the use magic. In much the same way a hero who is a normal person doing the unusual is far more interesting to read about than a hero who is a hero because he is the son of a God and has a magic sword.
Yes, there are good books that involve sons of Gods with magic swords, but most of them are shit.

"It doesn't make sense to say that the invention of God is a denial of humanity Harry, especially if he's a human invention."
# It does if his construction is to control a population. His rigid set of rules deny individuality which is the very essence of being human. The whole idea that by eating the fruit of knowledge Adam and Eve gained free will and were punished is anathema to concepts of the human spirit, being a better person etc.
God is the ultimate in non-humanity. he has ultimate power, omniscience and omnipresence etc. To aspire to being a good follow of god, your ultimate reward is to sit in heaven worshipping his greatness. Where's the humanity in that? The whole set up is an exercise in egotism and nothing else.
Humans are what they make of themselves. The Christian God doesn't try to make humans better by example but by fear.
If he had true compassion he wouldn't send peopel to hell for eternity. Humans are more forgiving ergo God is anti-human.

"Humans are very good at (needily) inventing things we can't understand - those things give us a place to channel feelings and emotions about all the elements of our reality that we can't control or rationalise, beginning with death."
# So what? These humans should make better Gods.
Do you agree that Love is the ultimate in irrationality? You cannot reason your way into Love. You simply 'know' when you are in love. And the cascade of hormones etc that accompany dictate actions and make you act out of character. if you want a magic potion it is metaphorically there in the hormones.
The beauty is that the magic potion is inside us, intrinsic to our being.

"The function of a potion (or other magical is to bring about a change that is


Gravatar "The function of a potion (or other magical is to bring about a change that is..."

Bugger!

"The function of a potion (or other magical is to bring about a change that is neither wholly controlled by human actions nor by cosmic laws and forces."

# I understand the "human actions" but why the "cosmic laws and forces". There are any number of romantic stoires that use the actions of other humans (that are beyond the control of the protaganists) to tear apart of fling together chracters: these being War and random Crime.
No magic needed.


Gravatar Good save, Harry.

I don't have anything against potions, magic etc., but they shouldn't substitute for good plotting, character development etc.


Gravatar Sorry laura, I am confused.

"I mean magic anthropologically, as in anything that presumably has a rational understandable explanation, but buggered if I know what it is."

# Is the magic potion of Isolde and Tristan anthropological magic, or Magick (for want of a better term)?

Why does the story work better with a Magick potion, than with them actually falling in love?

"And no, I don't agree that love is the ultimate in irrationality.'
# Interesting. How irrational do you think it is? What is the ultimate irrationality?


Gravatar do you have an alternative ultimate in irrationality, laura - what could be more stupid and perfect than love?


Gravatar I should add that I find the story of Ysolde and Tristan more interesting (due to the stuff Fyodor originally posted) without the potion, than with.

If laura gets more out of it with a magic potion, then we are simply arguing over taste; and you can't argue taste.

Generally I find most writing about magic to be sadly lacking and I avoid it.
I will same the same for technology. Hardcore scifi bores me to tears. Particularly when the technology acts no differently to magic.


Gravatar Harry,

That's exactly it. Technology is only accepted by us because we can file it in the part of our brains that uses things without understanding how they work. Like medicine.

I mean magic anthropologically, as in anything that presumably has a rational understandable explanation, but buggered if I know what it is.

As simply as possible.

Traditionally, there are three ways that some desired or feared event can be made to happen, in a story.

1) The character in question can take realistic action to make it happen.

2)Or some force out of his or her control can bring it about. (I called this "cosmic" because that's the way it's often represented in stories: the Gods, Fate, the Furies, whatever. They are just personifications of the same processes you mentioned: random crime, war etc.

then there's 3), which is exerting agency or control over something that can't be controlled. That is what people want to do. We want not to die, we want the beautiful girl to love us, we want to be able to fly. Stories need to have access to this in-between space in order to fully explore the things people dream about. Magic and magical potions are conventions that have evolved to open up that possibility.

Of course those conventions can be used lazily or weakly, same as any convention. I think this is where *taste* might reasonably come into things - but not sooner.

And no, I don't agree that love is the ultimate in irrationality.


Gravatar One theory that I've heard recently (hi Nw if you are lurking *waves*) is that one reason for the upsurge in religious fundamentalism is due in part to the fact that we are learning to accept that things 'just work' without understanding why. The average Bruce these days is not going to be able to take apart their car, alarm clock, washing machine etc and be able to know how it works (and how to put it back again) due to digital technology. Thus we actually have to take a lot more on faith than we used to.


Gravatar I like this blog very much, but I feel attacked quite a lot recently so I'm going to keep reading but not comment for a while - just till I'm over that feeling. I just don't have the energy at present to respond to questions such as Zoe's and Harry's most recent, though they are interesting questions, sorry guys. Please carry on.....


Gravatar oh, laura, I hope you don't think I was meaning to attack you, as I think you rock


Gravatar Woah, laura!
I'm not attacking you: you're making my brain work is all. This is an excited conversation.

I look forward to whenever you comment again.




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