Independence
Can you explain why the Tory results apparantly are Ok, while the comparable Lib Dem results are stinkers. In both cases, the Tories and Lib Dems were in 3rd and 4th.In Catchcart the Lib Dem advance was comparable to that of the Tories, in Livingstone their loss was even a little less.
Also, these are the worst by-elections results for the SNP since 1982. The SNP did not come close to winning either of the seats. According to the BBC website, BBC Scotland political editor Brian Taylor said: "The SNP have made progress but the swing in Cathcart is frankly a substantial disappointment to the largest opposition party in Scotland.
All in all, your comments seem just a little bit coloured
These are not the worst by-election results for the SNP since 1982 - Donald Dewar's old seat was not too good, nor was Kincardine & Deeside - apathy won in these elections. It wasn't a wonderful result for the SNP but it was not too bad either. Solid advance. The result in Fife was totally unexpected and something must be happening out there for this to be another gain. If the SNP were not popular then we should not be winning.
As I am in London this weekend, I bought the Evening Stardard for details of the election results. Not a thing in the paper about either of the seats! What election!?!
Political analyst Professor John Curtice said on BBC Online:
"If you compare it with 1999, the first Scottish election, the SNP vote is still six points adrift of what they managed to achieve then, despite the fact that the Scottish socialist vote has fallen back and Pat Lally's vote has fallen back. I think that suggests that there's still a long way for the SNP to go.
"I think they'll be disappointed that the Lib Dem vote at least held up in Livingston and it progressed a bit in Cathcart.
"That suggests that across Scotland as a whole there probably is still a contest going on between the SNP and the Liberal Democrats for the second place in votes at least. "
What I'm trying to say is that the piece "Three excellent performances" is an excellent example of spin, but it's not that difficult to produce some counterspin.
This was NOT an excellent result for the SNP by any stretch of the imagination.
Governments have traditionally lost by elections to opposition parties, that Labour is still winning them is actually quite a remarkable achievement.
If the SNP can't win these sort of seats then there is zero chance of them coming top in the 2007 election.
Nope, like it or lump it, we are gonna be stuck with the Lab Lib's for quite some time.
"As I am in London this weekend, I bought the Evening Stardard for details of the election results. Not a thing in the paper about either of the seats! What election!?!"
You are surprised that the English are not the slightest bit interested in what goes on in Scotland?
I can only assume you have a poor understanding of our neighbours to the South, you can take this as your first step to a better understanding.
Now don't take this the wrong way, but I want to help you understand all this, and am therefore going to provide a link to the essay by Robert Louis Stevenson called The Foreigner at Home. Although written in the 19th century it is still very pertinent today:
http://dinamico.unibg.it/rls/ess...port%5Cmp-
1.htm
"A Scotchman is vain, interested in himself and others, eager for sympathy, setting forth his thoughts and experience in the best light. The egoism of the Englishman is self-contained. He does not seek to proselytise. He takes no interest in Scotland or the Scotch, and, what is the unkindest cut of all, he does not care to justify his indifference. Give him the wages of going on and being an Englishman, that is all he asks"
I can assure you it is a very good essay.
Before these elections the Lib dems were saying they would come second the SNp was finished etc...the SNp have done well enough the Lib dem bandwagon is not rolling all that strongly after all ...and Labour were sensible in picking Cooks agent in Livingston......
Good to see you back Stuart....
Ta Mark.
The election results were barely mentioned in the Aberdeen Evening Express never mind the evening standard. Clearly Labour winning two by-elections in Labour heartlands just isn't much of a story.
If the SNP are seriously to get even a sniff of power, then these kind of mid term by elections must be won.
Personally I don't think there is a great deal the SNP can do about it. The Scottish people are just not prepared to give any serious attention to politics generally. Until they are things will stay much the same.
Welcome back! I've been mising the news!
I think all of the results and comments need to be looked at through the by-election issue which is who can get most committed people out. I think it's a very solid performance by SNP to get that many out in this circumstnce. The next issue is how many more will turn out for a general election. (And let's not forget why the westminster seat was having a by-election. Some residual sympathy for Robin Cook would have held which i would expect to go next time. I mean I would have voted for Robin Cook...
Don't know if anyone is still interested in this, but I think the piece of analysis carried out by John Curtice was one of his poorest ever. That said it was given live on tele and only reported on BBC online later so I guess he can be forgiven.
He quotes the SNP 6% behind their 1999 performance, but fails to mention Labour are 10% behind then, also that neither Pat Lally, the SSP or the Greens, competed in the first past the post vote making his comparison almost worthless.
Better to look at the list result in 1999. SNP 2% behind this, Labour 3% behind, Tory up 3% & lib Dem up 2.5%.
I don't know what this tells us, but it certainly isn't the crushing reduction in SNP vote Professor Curtice was attempting to point out.
Oh great, just what the world needs: another ranting site from yet another daft nationalist.
I'm beginning to think Scotland should have an "Abandon all hope..." sign at the border these days.
the Scottish Top 100 comments box of my blog listing has been inundated with negative comments. I note yours has too! I did a little research and saw that all the blogs on this list were getting this sort of comment spam... all except Shuggy's Blogspot and Freedom and Whiskey... when I then commented on this in all the other blogs, the comments miraculously disappeared overnight (how this happened I don't know). Then, in the spirit of empiricism I left some scathing comments in both Shuggy's Blogspot and Freedom and Whiskey's, and guess what? These negative comments also disappeared. Something very fucking fishy is going on, eh?
...but will they deliver when elected?
Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.co.uk
Scottish Politics Discussion Forum / Messageboard -
Dedicated to online discussion about Scottish Politics and an Independent Scotland, as well as Scottish Society today. We also have a section dedicated to Banter, Sport and Recommended Sites.
Independence - no problem, but be aware of a few points:
1. Scots are net benfactors from English tax.
2. Under international borders guidance the majority of north sea oil would be English.
3. Scotland has signed no treaties with the EU. The UK is a member of the EU, leave us leave it. I'm sure we'd give an application due consideration though.
4.Scots already have a disproportunate say in English affairs (Nb. West Lothian question, number of Scots MPs in government, plus too many Scot's MPs per head of population), so independence, means greater English freedom and lower English taxes.
Go ahead make our day...
Arnold
Ps. What would happen to Scottish rights of residence in England? I have good Scottish friends, I'd hate to see them go.
If the Scots want to become a Mcsocialist republic ruled by Brussels I have absolutley no problem with that, but pleeeease let the SNP come clean about this and stop relying on 'Braveheart' rhetoric to feed all those chips on shoulders to win votes.
Our Scotland - http://www.our-scotland.org
Scottish Politics Discussion Forum / Messageboard - Dedicated to online discussion about Scottish Politics and an Independent Scotland, as well as Scottish Society today. We also have a section dedicated to Banter, Sport and Recommended Sites.
Hi Arnold,
(1) and (2) The fact is England are net benefactors of Scottish oil and Scottish tax. After all Scotland contributes 11.8% of all UK tax despite having 9% of the population.
I'd read this as to whether it's England's oil or not. I think you are going to be sadly disappointed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%...cotland%
27s_oil
(3) If Scotland leaves the EU, the UK ceases to exist. In actual fact most EU commissioners are on record as saying there would be no problem with an independent Scotland becoming part of the EU as it has been so for the last 33 years and has 33 years of harmonisation with the rest of the EU. The way the UK and specifically England is regarded in Europe won't pose a problem for us when it comes to dealing with our European partners 
(4) Scotland no longer has a disproportionate number of MP's, they were reduced at the last election. After all the majority of UK Parliament members are English. I think more importantly Scottish independence means more Scottish freedom. After all Scottish independence obviously doesn't mean English independence does it? The new state will compose England, Wales and Northern Ireland
If that is the best defence of the union, or indeed an independent England, I think we Scottish Nationalists don't have too much of a problem ahead of us.
Hey Stuart - any chance you could add my new blog to your blog list - www.tartanhero.blogspot.com
ta
Grant
Good luck with independence, both our countries need it, lets offload this bunch of fraudsters whom are wielding power over us and let themknow what we think of them
SNP to increase funding for child brainwashing:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/art...90-
2535451.html
A chŕirdean, sorry for the intrusion. You can skip or ignore, but I'd urge all Scots residents to view this poster before going into the ballot box today!
Print version poster:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/endla.../endlabourlies/
http://www.dont-vote-labour.co.u....uk/
votesnp.jpg
For emailing:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/endla...s/small-poster/
Print the high-res version of the poster.
View it. Pass it on. Print it. Hang it on windows and walls, especially near key seats!
Email the lower-res poster to all and sundry! Family, friends, pets, strangers - go for it. You'll be helping Scotland address political dependency, poverty and warmongering.
See through the labour lies and spin Scotland! SNP for a return to democracy...1, 2 and 3.
Thanks ;o)
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