The BTN sure could do without that irritating background music track.
Don't be too hard on Caulcrick; while your criticisms here are perfectly valid, I've heard firsthand accounts of how he's a pretty good kid.
Sometimes I almost feel sorry for Sparty. Then I realize that's dumb.
Let me just throw this out:
Is it me, or does it seem like the entire Michigan football program does its best when it's already down and wounded?
Only after a 7-5 season do we go for a national championship, only after starting 0-2 do we figure out how to field a defense, only after getting down by a couple scores does the offense wake the f--k up and score 14 in 5 minutes, only after getting into a 3rd and 11 does Super Mario decide to be super (after lazily stepping OOB short of the sticks), yada yada yada.
It just seems like the coaches and players only respond when their backs are against the wall. That's nice that they're able to respond like that, but I don't know...it seems like that might be an indication of a lack of a killer instinct or something.
Or am I just being a dickhole for pissing all over another victory over State?
Thoughts please- is the Program taking the personality of the Wolverine too literally, or am I just a dickhole?
FWIW, I stood right next to Caulcrick in that tunnel exit after the game as he signed autographs for a handful of kids and smiled for pictures with babies. He was very gracious with everyone.
so those intangible we had to discuss on friday that RCMB was so hyped about...
they were talking about the intangible that results in clocking a WR in the chest after he's been out of bounds for 5 yards, right?
and winning with class is for people who don't win. talk to belichick about class, and he'll smack you in the mouth with a handful of super bowl rings.
From what I heard through a friend who reads stuff on the Fort, video evidence confirms that no Michigan player approaced Caulcrick after the game.
The group huddle at the end of the game - led my Mike Hart - was a moment of silence for Mark Dantonio inresponse to his request for a moment of silence for Michigan at his post-game presser for Sparty's season opener.
Between the countdown clock, the "bow down" bit, the taking a 10 point lead and wildly celebrating, the game being in EL and Caulcrick's ASU comments, this win was schadenfreudelicious with an extra side of emnity.
...talk about the joy of victory. And the agony of defeat.
Like I coach my kids. If the clock dosen't show all zero then the other team has a chance to comeback...this game a great teaching tool...
...Oh yeah! That took coconut balls to hang that banner...
Salt+wound=OUCH!
...and by emnity I mean enmity
@ cfaller96: While I agree with you in general, Manningham and Henne nearly hooked up for long gains repeatedly. I don't think the offense "woke up." There were just a number of near misses leading up to that point.
Waaa...MSU fans are up in arms about a banner hung in their "precious" stadium? Cry me a friggin' river. Send Dantonio over to JoePa so that they can talk about their teams not being able to beat Michigan during W's presidency.
ANCHORS AWAY!
Pual " Ahab" Johnson finally gets his whale. Most enjoyable part of the weekend
Caulprick ran his mouth off last year too. If he's a good kid, then hats off to him, but he shouldn't talk so much shit. We caught a lucky break by recovering our own fumble? Sure, but that would have been a bigger break for the MSU defense had we lost it.
At least Javon Ringer seems classy.
A bit off-topic, but does anyone know whether the 9 win criteria for BCS Bowl at-large eligibility applies to only I-A wins? Some of the teams ahead of us (e.g. VaTech and Georgia) have wins over I-AA teams. The Fox Sports BCS site is silent on this which leads me to believe it does not matter who you beat.
I just read the comments above about Caulcrick. Ok, ok. So he doesn't have the best sportsmanship. But at least he's doing it for the kids, even they are all adopted and their parents don't love them because they are measley Spartan fans.
The Michigan State University Raccoons. Awesome.
And I'll take one "Bow Down Sparty" banner any day over hundreds of "F___ Michigan" shirts.
MSU's Jehuu Caulcrick and U-M's Terrance Taylor exchanged heated words near the tunnel, before a U-M official got between them.
"You don't do that, you should have more class than that," said Caulcrick, who said Taylor approached him and started jawing.
News reporters saw it, I saw it w/ my own 2 eyes.
There was one way to make UM look like asshats with the whole "Bow down" banner. WIN THE GAME.
Pretty sure it was Jehuu chiming in after the Appy state loss: " it's like 2 wins for us"
So, Saturday was like 6 losses in a row? Eh, Jehuu ?
I'm sure those shirts that you guys bought from Appy State will keep you warm on New years day when you're watching UM in the Rose Bowl.
There's something to the symmetry (?) of Les Miles/Nick Saban and UofM/MSU.
MRG, go back and look at the drive that followed after State went up by 10. It was a bunch of outs to the sideline, with Henne in the shotgun almost the entire time. That's how the offense kept moving the chains.
Now I don't fault that. Indeed, that was absolutely the smart thing to do, and I'm sure Sparty was playing a little off our WRs. But my point is that the offense was having serious problems running the ball since Hart limped off, and the long ball passing was only going to work if Henne had the time (which for long periods of the game he didn't).
All of which causes me to ask: where were the shotgun quick outs prior to the last 2 drives? Why did that only come out after going down by 10 with 7 minutes left? The running game wasn't working without Hart, and the MSU pass rush was effective at shortening Henne's pocket time. So why not try and move the ball given those realities, before State takes a two score lead? Clearly it was the right thing to do (see: 14 points in 5 minutes), but why must we wait until after going down 10 to try it?
Also, my point was that this is part of a larger pattern of responding only after being cornered and wounded. That goes for game prep within a season, playcalling within a game, and players' efforts within a series. There seems to be a lack of consistency, tied to a lack of a killer instinct.
Think of it this way: can you remember the last time Michigan stormed out of the gates and took a huge lead, and then extended the lead to the end for a magnificent blowout? I can't, except maybe against Eastern Michigan last year. It always seems like Michigan is simply "settling" for a win against inferior competition, content to win by 7-10 when they should be stomping all over them and winning by 20-30.
It seems like the Program/Coaches/Players are too streaky to accomplish dominating wire-to-wire blowouts. Yet it feels like they should be able to do that, since it seems other Programs do it. By letting teams hang around and/or not taking them seriously and/or not wanting to kill!kill!kill! them, however, Michigan occasionally gets surprised by inspired play and furious comebacks. Fortunately, Michigan was able to mount their own furious comeback, but I just felt that it should never have come to that.
Or I'm just being a negative fuckwad...
While normally I would chide Jehuu for his lack of class during the flag planting stunt, well, it was Notre Dame after all.
@ Michigan Fan - if this is true:
"The group huddle at the end of the game - led my Mike Hart - was a moment of silence for Mark Dantonio inresponse to his request for a moment of silence for Michigan at his post-game presser for Sparty's season opener."
Then my man-crush just grew two sizes today...
just balls out awesome, and definitely a quality example (if not also slightly hilarious) of the type of motivation H20 provides
@ cfaller96-
I don't think anyone will argue your points. Except they were all made back in the beginning of Sept when things were really bad. The 1st 2 games this made alot of people (myself included) realize that we need a change in coaching staffs/philosophies. So, while all of those arguments are still extremely valid, they are also getting extremely old. We get it already. Let us just enjoy a team that, while not perfect, has bounced back to win 8 in a row when many were freaking out and thinking we might not even get to a bowl.
LSU has problems on offense related to execution on the line and Flynn's inconsistency, but a wonky backfield isn't one of them. Apart from Hester, Keiland Williams and Charles Scott have combined for roughly 550 yards and are each clocking in a 7 yards a carry. This didn't show up against Alabama since LSU pretty much abandoned the run for most of the second half, taking what the Alabama D was giveing in man to man coverage. But in other games, the running has been dominant, including hanging 169 yards on an Auburn defense that had completely shut down Arkansas' McFadden the week before.
With the exception of the pounding we gave the boilers, it generally seems like debored just wants to save any passing play that works for OSU. Though it hasn't worked yet.
Ssshhhh maybe if we don't ever through the ball unless we need to they might just think we won't throw against them..
Like why does Mario only catch the deep ball when the game is on the line? See; Every crucial 4th quarter play this year.
Trent, I got it. I'm self-aware enough to realize that I'm prone to negativity, but I still wanted to know if I was alone on this. We can all just move along now, and get back to hating on Jehuu.
He seems like a little bit of a jerk, IMO. On the audio, he's complaining about M being lucky and State "not getting a break." Seriously, dude, f--k you. After the Turf Monster, the Magical Clock, and the Incomplete Pass for a Fumble, you want to complain about "not getting a break"?!?! F--k you, man, just f--k you.
Anybody else notice on the highlight reel at about 2:46? HOLDING! It was on the "great" fake fumble play.
Don't forget to add to the schadenfraude, the spartoons' loss to GVSU in basketball the night before. Damn this weekend was great!
Looks to me like Henne tripped on the goal post pad being taken down on that last YT clip.
In related news, anybody catch Mario Manningham being escorted to the locker room with a towel over his head before the final gun sounded? Why were they getting him out of there so quickly?
cfaller96, form what I could see, the MSU DBs weren't playing as soft the 1st 3 quarters. That's partially why the deep balls were so wide open the 1st 3 quarters. They dared Michigan to throw over the top, and Henne couldn't quite make those completions. With a 2-score lead, they switched to a cover-2 and played off the LOS. Henne took what MSU gave them, got in a rhythym, and it was good night Irene.
The TD pass to Methews was a thing of beauty. MSU blitzed on that play and almost got to Chad, plus the covergae was pretty solid. But Henne barely got the pass off, and dropped it pefectly over the MSU DB. If you are a Sparty fan, you just have to tip your cap on that one. Heck, even the final TD pass was decently covered, but Super Mario skied, adjusted in mid-air, and made a fantastic over-the-head catch.
Don't know if someone's already seen tis but as to people never challenging the CW: http://www.slate.com/id/2060524/ - Southern football players aren't any faster than the guys up north.
There was a ton of negativity about Henne missing on the deep throws in the open thread. I didn't read the entire thing, but did anyone else speculate that maybe he was overcompensating on this throws because of the shoulder injury?
Yes, sounds counter-intuitive ... how could he be overthrowing guys deep with a bad wing? But, still, I could see him feeling like he had to put everything into those throws to get them there, and maybe his arm being better than he realized.
Also, who knows. I had a completely unsubstantiated theory (read: pure guess) that Henne might have taken a needle in the Illinois game. If he was playing with painkillers, it might also affect his touch greatly.
Naperville Blue: The 9 wins need to be either (1) 9 wins against FBS teams or (2) 8 wins against FBS teams and 1 win against FCS teams. And a team can only qualify under (2) once every 4 years.
It doesn't matter to Michigan; all of our wins this year will be against FBS teams.
cfaller96, I don't think you're totally off base. It's just in this instance, it seems like the typical criticism of DeBord dinking around and not trying to extend a lead isn't totally valid. There were numerous calls for long passes that were very nearly excuted to perfection.
Anyway, yeah, Caulcrick's an asshat. So is Otis Wiley.
Does anyone else think that both Henne and Hart should sit in the now totally meaningless Wisconsin game?
@ Naperville Blue:
I should also add to my above post that no team has ever been invited to a BCS game using the once-in-four-years exception noted above.
FYI, that was "Victors Waltz" the band was playing at the end of the last clip.
Rob Up North, I don't consider a game where M falls behind in the first quarter to be storming out of the gates. Therefore, this year's Purdue game doesn't count.
To find a game where M stormed to an early lead and extended and held it throughout the rest of the game (i.e. a wire-to-wire blowout), we have to go back to the Eastern Michigan game last year, and God Knows prior to that.
Eh, a win's a win, and I've vented enough.
Cfaller, last year's Notre Dame beatdown? This year's?
@Scott
You PLAY to WIN the GAME.
I don't think Hart and Henne, staring very probably the end of their meaningful football careers right in the face, are sitting this game with a chance to finish out 10-2 vs. 9-3 and co-champions or some shit. And I don't want them to. Why do people think is meaningless? Isn't the chance to rally and win 10 straight to fire back at the 0-2 start worth something? For all the slurping of Hart we do, you'd think we'd get this one right. I guarantee he isn't sitting around the locker room right now calling the Wisky game meaningless.
I just don't see why people would like to see M basically tank a game in what has a chance to be, improbably based on what happened in September, a really memorable season.
Jehpoo can fuck off!! He's just another cry-ass sore losing spartan. He can dish shit out but can't take it. It's come to be expected now that every year after thier annual wolverine beat down that one or more of those bitches will cry.
aaron, I agree with you, but to play devil's advocate....
the ONLY reason either Chad or Mike would rest vs Wisky is because the OSU game has turned into the last and most important, career-defining game of their 4 years in Ann Arbor.
When a legacy-defining game is on the line, do you take every possible precaution to be 100% on 11/17? Especially knowing that a loss on 11/10 doesn't cost you the B10 title?
I guess I'm saying I wouldn't blame them if they rested, especially if they kick ass on 11/17 because they let their bodies heal up just that little bit more.
re: Miles, doesn't LSU have basically MSU-level admissions standards? Not that we have sky-high standards, but there are some borderline qualifiers that we won't touch that a school like LSU will. My theory is that those types of players are the most likely to be headcases and commit idiotic penalties. That would explain MSU's annual penaltyfests. It may be that LSU doesn't quite have the national recruiting pull of a Michigan (they obviously recruit well in-state), so they have to roll the dice on some headcases.
You don't hear Michigan fans crying about Kellen Davis trying to push that Michigan player out of his way after his touchdown, or Ringer condescendingly patting Crable on the head after his long run.
Both teams were talking a lot to each other. That's what happens when you take on your little brother. Sparty's whining is just sour grapes over blowing yet another game.
(When I say we don't have sky-high admissions standards, I mean for athletes, of course.)
Caulcrick ASU comment if people don't remember it:
When Caulcrick was asked about U-M being upset by Appalachian State, a Division I-AA team, he could not help but crack a wide smile. “It felt like we won two games today,” he said.
MSU players watched the end of the game from the locker room following their rout of the Blazers. “It was just great,” Caulcrick said. “We sang the fight song, counted down the points.”
Ahhh, Sparties taking credit for another team beating UM. I can't even count how many App St. shirts I saw. But hey, if they feel like ASU was their victory, I'm cool with it cuz they didn't get the real one. Caulcrick, sorry but you probably deserved the jawing from Taylor...little bro. ;)
Also, how much of a "break" is it that Chad had to leave for one play so that Ryan could come in cold and do his weekly ritual of fumbling? Lol...some break we got! I love fumbling! I hope we can fumble a few times next week!
Re: Henne, Hart, Wisconsin
My thing is I don't want us to get all nanny state on this. If Hart and Henne are healthy enough to play, they should play. I take issue with the term "rest", since it seems to be implied they should sit even if they are capable of going. Take out the factors around the game, and if they are healthy to the point they would normally play, they should go.
I just don't see this game as meaningless. Every win counts for something, especially when you start 0-2.
On a selfish level, we've got three games left with Mike Hart. Do you really want to make it two?
Chris I think Ringer patted Crable on the head like being like "nice hustle." Like after a QB gets sacked, he sometimes taps the guy on the butt or helmet for the good play he made, etc.
Homer, in last year's Notre Dame game, didn't M fall behind or weren't they tied in the first quarter or the first half? There was an explosion of points, yes, but it was only for a brief period (2nd quarter), and the rest of the game was more about salting it away. That game was not a wire-to-wire blowout, mostly because it was tight early.
This year's ND game? That seemed pretty dominant right from the get-go, and I don't think Michigan ever released the chokehold. So yeah, tally that one in the wire-to-wire blowout column. Good point.
So we've got a wire-to-wire blowout against Notre Dame this year, and Eastern Michigan last year. Maybe Michigan can only do this once a year. Maybe that's all any Program can accomplish any year, although it seems in my mind that the Buckeyes are able to do it 2-3 times a year.
Just sayin'.
aaron,
I agree with your comments, and I'm not even remotely suggesting that we "tank" the game. They are football players, tough ones at that, and they will go if they can. I'm just throwing it out there. If you could tell me that we would definitely beat OSU on 11/17 but had to trade that for a Hart- and Henne-less loss on 11/10, I would take it.
I think Mallett & Minor/Brown can play well enough to win vs. Wisconsin. I don't know exactly why I think that...but I do. Just let Mallett throw deep with no Langford (who played Manningham relatively well last season) and that's that. I think our D can handle a dinged up Hill.
I also hope Englemon is back...they've got a few solid guys Donovan can pass too. I think we'll need him.
did anybody notice john saunders face after the game when he started talking about the notre dame/navy game. He talked about that then wanted to say soemthign about the number two team in the nation, but said number two in the Nav.....nation, and his face at the time was pricelss. if anyone has a video of that id be forever greatful
If H & H are not injured, you cannot take this game from them. They deserve every second of play time - and the team, the whole team, deserves it's best chance to win after pulling this season out of the shitter.
cfaller,
IIRC, I think your recollection of ND game last year was wrong. That was a wire-to-wire blowout. Only a Henne mistake and TO on the first ND score left the game close at the start (and that had nothing to do with playcalling). I think Michigan was quickly ahead 21-7 and stayed on the gas pedal most of the game.
But Kurt, my point is that the lack of a killer instinct runs through the Program, not just the coaching staff. The game was close early- regardless of why, if the game is close through pretty much the entire first quarter, then that is NOT "storming out of the gates."
There are going to be some games that are good, dominating, satisfying wins that don't fall into the category of a wire-to-wire blowout. Last year's ND game was just such an example, IMO.
My opinion: Michigan will not win in Madison with Ryan Mallett. Mallet has played @NW, @ILL and now 1 now legendary snap @MSU. He fared poorly
in each outing, and Madison is the tougher than any of those environments.
Also my opinion: Michigan will not have to win in Madison with Ryan Mallett. Henne will play and play well.
>>> All of which causes me to ask: where were the shotgun quick outs prior to the last 2 drives?
MSU wasn't playing the prevent prior to those last two drives. That's probably why.
>>> Also, how much of a "break" is it that Chad had to leave for one play so that Ryan could come in cold and do his weekly ritual of fumbling?
It turned a likely 10-yard loss into a 10-yard gain. Luckiest thing I've seen since a blocked punt got scooped up by the kicking team and run for a first down on 4th and a mile.
We had our chances, I won't argue that cost us the game or anything silly like that. Weird things happen in football, no one knows that more than MSU fans (who are almost always on one end or the other of something totally bizarre a couple times a year). But it is frustrating to make a great play and end up losing 20 yards because of it.
Naperville: do you really think there's any chance that a BCS bowl would take a 9-3 team that lost to a 1-AA school as an at-large? There will certainly be two teams from the Big XII and almost certainly two from the Pac-10. Assuming a 10-2 finish for the UConn/WV loser, that team will almost certainly be ahead of Michigan in the pecking order as well, and I don't see Michigan getting taken ahead of a second SEC team unless there's nobody eligible in the SEC (a distinct possibility). Even then, you might have to contend with Hawaii (undeserving as they might be) and a second ACC team (though I think Michigan gets in ahead of a 9-3 ACC team, they might not get in ahead of a 10-2 team).
The OSU game is your only semi-plausible chance at the Rose Bowl.
Dan -
Agreed. My son and I both just looked at each other and smiled. God, I love Mike Hart.
I think they should change Jehuu's name to Boo-Hoo. What a clown.
Yeah I think Javon Ringer is a pretty classy guy, especially compared to Caulprick. How is patting Crable on the head after an amazing hustle condescending? Here is a guy who praised Mike Hart in the few days before the game.
So far, I am impressed by Javon Ringer on and off the field. Jehuu take notice.
@kgh10 : I am damn sure the Ringer pat was a condescending one. Look at the frequency. It was like how you pat dogs. Your team choked, Ringer.
@MVM : Looks like they won't win with Mallett at the helm. However, Mallett has played well when he KNOWS that he's gonna start. I don't know, maybe the kid really puts his heart into the practices when he knows he's gonna start. Learn from Chad as much as you can, son.
But I hate Bielema to the core!!
Actually, if both Michigan and OSU win next week, then Michigan is quite possibly automatically in the Rose Bowl. I don't care: I want us to beat OSU really really badly. It's so goddamn imperative it's not even funny.
But let's say God laughs in our faces and we lose to OSU again. OSU goes to the BCS, leaving a spot open in the Rose Bowl for the Big 10 runner-up, at least if we have at least 9 wins and Urban Meyer doesn't somehow convince the Rose Bowl to not invite us. If we beat OSU, then we win the Big 10 and we of course go to the Rose Bowl.
@ Brian
That video of Caulcrick has been taken down by YouTube.
As far as the missed deep balls, I read that Henne barely practiced the past two weeks. Could it have been his timing was just off?
Mat,
Definitely. That's actually an interesting thing you brought up. Last year when Michigan was killing opponents deep, Henne said that he and Manningham practiced that deep ball all summer long. They need to continue at it, because their timing is really off. I thought they needed practice.
Matt, I know the Rose Bowl likes to keep its traditional matchup. But do you really think they could justify taking a 9-3 Michigan team that lost to a 1-AA school and got smoked by the most likely Pac-10 representative over, say, the second team from the Big XII (which could be an 11-1 Kansas team if Kansas loses to Missouri)?
I hear you SpartanDan. It seems unlikely. However, the bowl selection committee might look at team which are recognized nationally.. Michigan fans travel well also. But it seems implausible.
Hemlock-
I don't think that hold could have been any more blatent. Since I was watching at the in-laws, I had to hold my tongue after seeing that obviously missed call. I'm pretty sure the ref was too caught up in the possibility of a fumble.
@ SpartanDan
Who do you think has a bigger national TV audience - Michigan or Kansas? Bowls don't care about the quality/integrity of the game. They care about ratings.
wow, i just listend to the jehuu audio...i think he was about to cry...i could picture his lower lip quivering like my daughters' does when her feelings are hurt.
It's taken me since now to finish this entire comment thread. Whew, what an accomplishment. I usually follow it while watching the game but I sorta spent my time shouting down MSU wetards in the student section. It was truly an amazing experience. Also, I knew more about MSU football than the surrounding little brother students. I would call out UM plays pre-snap and some girl was like... "you know all their names... how?" And I laughed at her casual fandom.
To top it off I witnessed a fantastic case of shadenfreude: MSU Alumni v. Students! The alums were trying to get the students to sit down, as we were right on the border of the student/normal seating in the upper deck. I ended up laughing my ass off as a couple of drunk students nearly went to fisticuffs against some 40 year old trashy-smoker alums... AND then the cops came over. I have never seen more disrespect to older people in my life.
Best weekend of my life.
-Flew Sat morn.
-Drove to E. Lansing for some amazing tailgating. Ticket hookup for $50
-Michigan rolls. I watch from State student section.
-I watch my Spartan Marching Band HS buddy drown his sorrows in alcohol all night
-I drive back to Battle Creek, fly my first solo. I flew it one handed, filming it (dont tell my CFI.) SR-20, baby!
-No class Mon = drink drink drink, execute smashpumpkins.exe
Hats off to Henne, Manningham's Braylon-esque '04 catch, and Hart's fumble recovery for first down. Acceptable playcalling, imho.
BOW DOWN SPARTY
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