First -- copyrighted
second, lol?
pryor!
pryor!
pryor!
pryor!
pryor!
Meh, this whole thing with WVU is very, very silly. Just settle that buyout for nickles on the dollar and move on with the new era for both schools.
That's not to excuse WVU from its slighted-girlfriend attitude, whoever. God, those people are nuts.
is anybody else worried about turning into a Slaton-White type offense?
I'm watching video on Pryor...and he's not making good throws. He's got a lot of air under the ball and all his deep throws (which were short)are to WIDE open WRs...not very reassuring.
If Rich Rod can run a pass first spread...perhaps starting Threet wouldn't be so bad.
however* d'oh
I would have been first, but was busy shreading documents...
Worried about turning into a Slaton-White offense? Worried about 2 BCS wins against teams with (clearly) superior talent? I don't think I'd be too worried about having a rush offense averaging 300 ypg.
Pryor wouldn't be winning any golden arm awards right off the bat, but he'd be getting a lot of help from a very young, but talented receiving corps with some nice safety valves in the backfield and at TE.
But from the aerial view it's just going to look like a bunch of douchebags covered in mud.
After the Racist Love LSU AOL post, I figured Brian would avoiding questionably worded sentence like this during racism pieces. Covered in mud ~= Black?
Not that I think Brian is a racist (my name is not tigertexan).
Granholm comment at the end. Glorious.
In 20-something years, the lack of black coaches will not be an issue to Michigan when Mike Hart is hired as head coach and leads Michigan to 15 national championships.
Brian's last line about Granholm -- LMAO!
I'd rather see a pass friendly spread, and RR showed he can run one (stint at Tulane as OC blah blah blah). I'd like to see Threet given the chance to run it at least. The kid was good coming out of high school. Got shafted by some of the worst QB decisions in college history.
NOTE: I did say shot, if he does suck, I welcome the option spread.
you wanna get 300ypg like that? What about against defenses like a healthy USC or Auburn. Both have stopped the spread consistently.
I dunno, also...I take a lot of pride in our players succeding in the NFL, and two way QBs like Pryor don't usually suceed.
Musket - You beat me to it! Good to see I'm not alone.
Adam Kraus, G, Michigan, clearly isn’t very good. He was dominated by Hayden and others.
Just read the Shrine Game Day 3 article. That was sad for the only showing by Michigan.
I'd rather see the game shortened dramatically, Michigan amongst the nations best at rushing the football(im talking 230+ per game, which is plausible with Pryor), with our QB put in some decent spots and carrying around a decent 1.5/1 TD/INT ratio. We would be a very, very good football team if that's the case.
I just hope that Magee knows what he is doing. If WVU was truly racist, then he should speak up. But I don't want this to be just another counter attack because then Michigan will end up having stooped to WV's level, possibly lower. Accusations of racism are very hard to defend against. Accusing someone of racism is the spread offense of ad hominem attacks.
I'd rather see a spread option with a QB whose arm would make defenses respect the pass. Too often (a.k.a. vs. Pitt) teams realized that the chances of WVU beating them through the air were pretty slim, so they stacked the box and waited for them to start throwing. If we could get a Steven Magee (TAMU) type guy who could throw respectably and was a mobile QB I'd like the prospects of that rather than just the spread option. But when we hang 60 on MSU next year I'm not going to complain.
Brian, is it true you are selling your site to Scout???
I'd settle for a Drew Stanton in a heartbeat. Fairly accurate, fairly quick, can drop back and pass or run the spread.
who's... wow sorry.
Brian, is it true you're selling your soul to Google?
about pryor...everyone says everything. nice. i hope the $10 a month is worth it for those w/ subscriptions. hopefully, that statement isn't too precise as to be considered premium content from a pay site. ok, i'll stop now.
yes, this whole back & forth w/ WFV is tiresome. at least it keeps the local MSM busy.
I'm pretty sure Georgia and Oklahoma stopped the spread just as well as USC or Auburn until they ran into WFV.
i to am a fan of the passing type of spread, i dont know why we cant just start threet and run a capital 1 bowl type offense
Brian,
See, this post is why I keep coming back to this site, despite the terrible comments that the comment section has devloved into.
I thought the same thing when I heard about MaGee - "doubtful to play the race card, except as another smear campaign."
Well done with the fair and balanced take on this, despite being an unapologetic homer.
"you wanna get 300ypg like that? What about against defenses like a healthy USC or Auburn. Both have stopped the spread consistently."
What other way is there to get 300 rushing yards per game? Passing all day and hoping for 3 100 yard touchdowns on draws from our goalline? By the way, few defense were as outstanding as Oklahoma's this year - they got torched on limited snaps against WVU. USC couldn't has had its difficulties with Oregon's spread. Regardless, what does any of that matter? There will always be outstanding defenses out there - and the probablity of playing one of them outside of a bowl game is very low. And the assumption that our spread couldn't be effective is unfair.
"I dunno, also...I take a lot of pride in our players succeding in the NFL, and two way QBs like Pryor don't usually suceed."
I don't take pride in it. I appreciate what Michigan QB's do in the NFL, but I would have been far happier if guys like Brady were winning championships here and not the NFL. I dont care what our guys do in the pros - I want them to help Michigan win in the present. This thinking is archaic and fans will learn to let it go - we're not here to produce NFL QBs, though that is what inevitably happens when you play at a school like Michigan. We're here to lead Michigan to a national championship. So fans can hang their hat on Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, but Brian Griese and Tee Martin are good enough for me.
I'm mystified how you can root for a team and be more concernced with the pro careers of it's alumni than you are about the actual success of the team. I realy don't care what offense RR runs, provided it scores lots of points.
if Romney would have spoken up about this issue during the primary, i would have voted for him.
well, maybe not. did he really say he'd try to get more manufacturing jobs in michigan?
and brians not selling his site to scout...he's accepting a buyout from the ES. everyone better get used to this: "on the banks of the red cedar, there's a school that's known to all..."
yeah that Capital One Bowl Offense was ridiculous. Perfect use of the spread with our annually highly touted WRs
That's more of what I would expect from Threet. Not to mention we got Manningham v 2.0 with Darryl Stonum and plenty of Jason Avants and AAringtons to go around.
I'm impressed by the WFVA spread-smear offense. You've got the dual threat governor, the AD who's banged his head on his facemask a few too many times, a bunch of two star "unnamed sources"...
Please don't ever mention Jenny from the Block in another blog post.
Exactly, chitown. Exactly. Short, sweet, to the point.
"Start Threet...we'll have some 9-3 seasons, but he'll be picked in the NFL draft! Pryor might lead us to some BCS bowls, but he might not amount to much in the pros!"
I bet the source inside the Kremlin - err that is the Klan meeting was probably another African American. I'm sure the minority guys keep it pretty tight in those good ol' boy towns. Magee was probably talking to a buddy who hinted that "hey bro, it will never happen (you being head coach) and you know why." type deal.
just a thought
granted if we do land pryor the run would be far easier to run then a pass happy spread, especially with a QB who has never taken a college snap before. i might be over reacting but i love the pass and am going to be sad we will be seeing less of it. but if its for the benefit of M football then im all for it
I'd prefer to not hear about the bickering anymore. I think Brian seems pretty tired of it too. At least he's labeled it a Jihad, which I think WV is taking it as.
yay, haterade!
For instance, I'd trade Henne's 9-4, soon to be drafted season for Pat White's 11-2 BCS bowl win season anyday, and twice on sunday.
Also on this point is Dennis Dodd's articel on cbs sportsline.
http://www.sportsline.com/colleg.../story/
10590594
you wanna get 300ypg like that? What about against defenses like a healthy USC or Auburn. Both have stopped the spread consistently.
I dunno, also...I take a lot of pride in our players succeding in the NFL, and two way QBs like Pryor don't usually suceed.
I'd take more pride in Michigan winning a BCS bowl game as WVU has done in two of the past three years. It's been what, 8 years since the Dreamboat led us to our last BCS win?
If a new offense with less QBs in the NFL is the way to do it, so be it.
Thank you, Brian. This entire situation is ridiculous. The friggin' governor of West Virginia is getting involved.
Yes, somebody alert Granholm! She'll fix it! In the meantime, have you heard anything from Karl Levin?
Well, I would expect our Captial One Bowl offense to also bring us plenty of BCS wins as well...plus it's style is suited for the NFL, giving it a certain level of legitimacy that the Slaton-White offense doesn't have.
Actually, that should be "Carl" Levin.
Wow the Dodd article was good.
that article is right on
For the love of God, Neil. Michigan plays its schedule in the Big Ten, not the NFC. Legitimacy? I'll stop. I'm only going to get angry, and this is a time to rejoice in Ann Arbor. A time where our QBs NFL success will be irrelevant, and we'll care more about seeing our QBs at Michigan trying to lead the boys to a national championship.
granholm line - homerun.
Being, in the past 3 years, the #11, #4, and #7 scoring offense in the nation doesn't give it legitimacy? Really?
plus it's style is suited for the NFL, giving it a certain level of legitimacy that the Slaton-White offense doesn't have.
I guess that legitimacy is nice to have, it hasn't really helped us all that much this decade (last year notwithstanding). College isn't the NFL, and different schemes can work. If we're winning consistently, we'll be recruiting well, and still churning out NFL players.
Just maybe not as many Dreamboats. Sigh.
chitown,
Not in the NFL. no siree-bob.
I feel like our players' success in the NFL has been a fallback argument of Michigan fans where when we haven't, in recent years, been able to boast about Michigan's performance on the field as much as we'd like. I do like seeing former Michigan players suceed in the NFL, but in terms of our college success, who cares?
And you think that a running a passing spread will make our QB's more legitimate in the eyes of the NFL? Guys like Jason White, Colt Brennan, Graham Harrell, Cody Hodges, Sonny Cumbie, Timmy Chang, Omar Jacobs, BJ Simons, and Josh Harris would like a word.
Chitown - Ryan Leaf is sad that you left him off your list.
Can't talk right now. These burgers gotta be flipped every 30 seconds.
Ryan Leaf is too busy having Jason White rotate his tires for him.
he's accepting a buyout from the ES
+1 DanK.
re: NFL QBs
It's a personal deal with people in both ways, much like it is in NCAA 08. Some recruits like the idea that they will be set up to play in the NFL. Some are more interested in BCS/MNC. Michigan has historically always been in the mix with contending for the top spot. Yes we have only won a MNC once if 50 years, but there were more years in the top 15 than there were years out of it (guessing on that, feel free to refute it).
Now that the BCS games are becoming more glamorous, we do not appear to be cutting it anymore. We're losing the "Excellent" tag on competing for MNCs. Under the old system we would be only "Good" or "Great" by NCAA 08 standards. Those are not good enough.
Unfortunately for me, I disagree with my own argument because developing NFL talent is a bigger draw for me.
why in the world do people still care about what UM players do in the nfl as it relates to UM football? we've put a whole hell of a lot more players in the nfl the last 3 years than WVU has, but they've had a lot more success on saturday's in that time frame.
UM nfl player stats do not count towards our saturday performance. i want to win games on saturdays - if we don't put a single player in the nfl but win BCS games (specifically a title game) i won't shed a tear.
it's fun to watch brady and braylon do well, but in the end it means nothing to the current UM team.
side note:
isn't the 7th day supposed to be a day of rest?
I thought this was one of the better write ups on the situation I have seen. Good job Brian.
I'm also not entirely buying the "running the spread means less players in the NFL" argument. It's probably true w/r/t QBs (especially if we're talking about run-first QBs), but I don't think there's a real basis for the argument as to other positions. WVU has put less players in the NFL in recent years than Michigan, but that's in large part because WVU is unable to recruit the top-level talent that Michigan brings in. It's not necessarily because WVU runs a spread.
There's no reason to believe that a Daryl Stonum can't both 1) be effective in a spread offense and 2) succeed in the NFL as well.
Gnarls, i totally disagree.....if Jake Long spent 4-5 years in RRs offense (whatever it turns out to be) he'd be lucky to be a day 2 draft pick.
Dammit. I should have said, "Chitown, Ryan Leaf has seen your list and wants you to KNOCK IT OFF!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U...h?
v=UMe0Rz1frdE
DanK - That's fair. I was referring more to players at the skill positions.
if Jake Long spent 4-5 years in RRs offense (whatever it turns out to be) he'd be lucky to be a day 2 draft pick.
Right, because all blocking in a spread is a gimmick.
Barring complete destruction of his legs and no ability for cyborg reconstruction Jake "Breaker of D-lineman" Long was going to be a day one NFL pick no matter what.
I think (hope?) DanK was being sarcastic.
Hello All
So...what did I miss?
New guy posting here...
I don't think it's just the pride of putting guys in the NFL. The prostyle system is just a better system to run IF you can recruit the players necessary to run it AND you play aggressively (ie. USC). I think this is most magnified when it comes to playing from behind or when you need to control the clock - both weaknesses of the read/option IMO. I think the beauty of the read/option until now is it doesn't require top flight recruiting at every single offensive position on the field.
What's been so tantalizing for some of us I think is we HAVE had the NFL talent to put up greater numbers than we have recently, and I think that all comes back to mindset, our lack of aggression, and in terms of running the ball possibly a lack of explosion from our line b/c of S&C. Those things could have been rectified without completely scrapping the system and installing one that is going to dominate inferior competition, but seems to be prone to locking up in big games, especially if the #1 QB goes down (yes, the prostyle suffers from QB injury too, but the chances are just not as high)...
All that being said, I'm not sure I really care what we run on offense as long as we start finally playing defense with some passion again. I'm kind of excited to see what an aggressive mindset (that English also had) can do with reinvigorated recruiting and hopefully a stepup in S&C...
Guest, well said. It's not that I care (beyond simple pride) about our NFL QB legacy, but that Michigan always be a desireable choice for the great HS QBs of the future - including pocket passers. The last thing we want is to become a place that pro-style QBs laugh at the thought of coming here. Perhpas others think it can ALL be done with dual-threat QBs, but I like to keep the options open. And that means catering a little to the tradition.
This shit-storm will not end until WVU cries uncle. I posted a "satirical" letter on my site (www.BCSGuru.com) and I got lots of vitriol from WVU types, apparently unaware that the letter wasn't really signed by Mary Sue Coleman.
chitownblue 00 wins the sarcasm detection contest for the day. your prize? a subscription to scout for errrrrr .....(looks up signing day...does some quick math).... uhhh 16 days! that or a years subscription to the jelley of the month club (it's the gift that keeps on giving the whole year)! or, you can take what's behind door #3! stay tuned!
seriously, the question boils down to this: will 4-5* (nfl-level) recruits want to play in this system? i think yes for the most part. the guys like Jake who come to M b/c of the tradition, etc will still come. i think we'll be OK. still, i have little basis for this feeling and have gone back & forth about this in the past 3 weeks or so.
MDan - what I want to see gone is the stubborn insistence on not even recruiting dual threat QB's. Pryor wasn't even offered by Michigan. If that high quality a player wants to come here, we should be willing to adapt to the talent at our disposal.
Tennessee won a championship with a run-first QB (Tee Martin) a year after playing a statue (Peyton Manning). Tressell changed his offense when Troy Smith was his best option (more importantly - he was willing to recruit talent that was at odds with his current system). Florida went from pass-first Chris Leak to Tebow.
I'm not advocating that we abandon throwing QB's. What I am advocating is that we adopt our offense to fit the best pieces at our disposal. The best way to acquire the best pieces is to be willing to accept them - that means that we can stop looking at only the Ryan Mallett's of the world - but also the Terrelle Pryor's.
DanK - I totally missed the sarcasm. Goddammit.
DanK, I don't think there is any question that the 4-5 star guys keep coming. In fact, I expect an upgrade because we have about 200 young, aggressive, 40-something, recruiting dynamoes on the coaching staff.
I think it boils down to whether RR continues to evolve or not. If he tries to recapture Slaton-White at Michigan, it may sour some skill players, particulary pocket passers and big time downfield receivers. That's common sense.
But RR has evolved every step of the way, and, unless he thinks he's "arrived" with the spread-option, I expect him to evolve further. Given what he is telling CWilson and BMoore about running pro-set sometimes and some of the flexibility on defense (re: 4-3 will be used), that evolution will probably play to his strengths - like the 4-3 next year.
Give this guy a chance to show something new that fits the uptick in talent and I think we move into USC territory in recruiting.
chi, don't disagree with anything you said. We should always be about getting the best, and really who has a better resume than RR for using the best available, regardless of style (King ---> White)?
But I REALLY want to see RR run a passing spread with Michigan talent. Want it, want it. It would be the Cap One bowl on amphetamines.
Question:
Is the option offense prone to inflating QB stats, possibly increasing the chance of winning heisman trophies?
I look at people like pat white (new school) and eric couch (old school) and see some highly successful names in the past at BCS schools. Nothing against Pat White, but I've never really liked him as a player (outside of NCAA 07/08). He has always been a RB in my head, never a QB.
And Eric Couch, well... yea.
We've discussed the NFL issue before, and it's irrelevant to us winning MNCs. I looked up the MNC winners since OU's win against FSU, and every single MNC winner has put upwards of 10 guys into the NFL.
If we in the future are playing for and winning BCS titles, then we will have NFL quality players. It's not a question of one or the other. To win the BCS title, you need NFL caliber players. Regardless of the offense.
I also love how its BCS titles in a few previous posts.
I'm arguing to myself in my head:
"Way to set the expectations high."
"We should always be striving to win the MNC. Every year. Damn history. If we have our talent level, and wacko ninja offense, we should be in consideration for the MNC every year.
Maybe I'm just a big big dummy, and feel free to label me as such, but Brandon Smith's listed on scout as a QB as well as WR; I guess I've never heard it discussed, anyone know if there's actually any substance there as a QB talent-wise?
@ MGoBleu, he has no shot at playing QB next year, it was already discussed with RR.
I figured as much, but just never heard anything about it.
I'm sick of this stuff between RR/staff and WV. Sure, West Virginia has acted like the scorned girlfriend, but I am not at all impressed with RR and company either. And now we get the race card thrown on the table?
RR is starting to remind me of Bill Clinton, Barwis sounds like a WW Wrestling promoter and Magee sounds like he belongs on a day time television talk show.
Gone are our days as a destination for great QBs and WR and gone is the tradition of being a Michigan Man. No way this group of clowns even begins to understand that concept.
Guys, the defense will be strong and, if we get Pryor, so will the running game. This is classic Big 10 football, in a way.
I mean, I think that the defense will be really good next year. As good as OSU's? I don't know, but our defensive players are going to be experienced, fit, and well-coached. I'm really excited about that. Plus, I think that Brandon Graham will shine and could possibly become, as Mike Hart suggested, the next LaMarr Woodley.
In addition, the seniors on defense should help everyone else on the team with the coaching transition.
USC territory in recruiting?? the only way anyone matches that is if they are playing NCAA0X for xbox.
but your overall points i agree with. and chitown too. look at osu and their noodle arm QBs....they are terrible at recruiting QBs and yet 5* WRs flock to osu. and TEs and OLs. we don't necessarily need a pro style system to attract good QBs. and we don't necessarily need nfl QBs to attract good offensive talent at other positions.
No matter how we play next season on offense, if nobody defects to the draft we'll have all 11 offensive starters coming back, and 7 defensive starters coming back for 09.. That'll be our year...
Couple that with the fact that we have Ohio State, Penn State (?), and Notre Dame at home.
you guys do know theres another post assume.
Disappointing to see Magee join in on prolonging the agony. There's only one reason he didn't have a chance at the WV job: he showed up here on the podium with RR when he was introduced as the new M coach on 12/17.
I wonder how many black coaches were given a shot for Carr's job.
I've lost my interest in the TP saga. It all seems way overblown. The RR/WVU back and forth is also not interesting in the least. Thoughts of Brady going 19-0 and Chunks the Hobo stopping by on a more regular basis is about all I can ask for in the next 2 weeks.
Oh, and the Scout Premium Content defenders of capitalism from the other day. Sure, the guys who write and make a living off Scout's premium content should be protected at all costs. It's not like they've created an entirely disgusting industry, exploiting teenagers, inflating their egos and turning college sports into a win at all costs proposal. We should protect these guys and the integrity of the invaluable Premium Content service they provide to the paying public. Without Scout.com, recruiting rankings and the like, what would happen to college sports? I fear a total meltdown.
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