Do you pay for Rivals and/or Scout? Just curious, I always assumed you did in the past. But with Rivals (don't know if scout is also) seemingly always bashing your info anymore, it makes me wonder if you still bother with them. If you do still pay, do they talk to you about stuff, or just accept your check and then slam you on the message boards?
Well we are still in the dark. I still Say no to Ferentz. I emailed Bill Martin. I got a reply "generic I think" that basically said we don't care what you want
This is entertaining
Premature or not, when it comes, it comes.
@ Jason:
What exactly did Bill Martin say? Inquiring minds want to know.
I'm lost. Did Brian's update basically say that all of the message board stuff was BS yet he's sticking by his source (that Cap'n Kirk was/will be offered the HC job)?
I have given up on trying to figure this out. I will just check back in a few weeks to see whom Martin hired.
Go Blue
At what point do we wake-up and find that all of this has been a cruel dream?
IMO, I do not want to see Ferentz as the next HC. He may have had some marginal success, but he is not a coach that is going to put us over the top. I want to see a coach that will actually put the fear in the other B10 coaches -- someone like Petersen from Boise -- rather than a B10 retread.
I agree with your assessment, except that I don't think he will be offered. Because then I would have to kill myself and I want to live.
Did Lloyd say he wouldn't be a major factor, or did he simply suggest such...
"My role in the upcoming weeks and in the selection of the coach will be defined strictly by Bill Martin. Whatever that role, if any, it may be."
That last part seems to minimalize his impact... but by the letter of his statement, if Martin deems it appropriate, Lloyd could be the sole decision maker.
-----------
Totally agree SOMETHING is happening with Ferentz - that alone is scary.
Then again, with a new OC, new OL coach, new S&C (and possibly keeping everyone else including committed recruits, english, bedford, campbell, jackson) I might just buy into a "younger lloyd"
I won't be 100% happy, but with some wins (and beating tressel), I might buy in.
I told those Iowa guys Brian would not put anything out there on their posts but they were so self absorbed about their ploy they could never see the light.
If Ferentz is really the #1 choice then this program is def going into the shitter....Who cares if Martin wants a Lloyd clone, majority of the fans don't and we are the ones that have to come watch this crap...
I agree this would largely be Carr's doing (w/ MSC's approval, of course).
It would also be a very large mistake. Ferentz is exactly what the program does not need now. Why would anyone want to continue down the path this program is headed?
I think there's also a very real chance of missing that new coach bump most programs get (since Ferentz is so very similar to Carr) both on the field and in recruiting. It'll be like nothing changed.
Meet the new boss, the same fucking thing as the old boss.
Try not to fall asleep watching the games.
(It's almost as if Carr searched for the ONE friggin' coach that wouldn't make DeBord's offense look like shit in comparison)
Maybe he just has an offer for an interview? Or maybe that's just my wishful thinking
I may just have to root for GVSU until UM gets their act together and make a hire that will actually bring us within striking distance of the MNC. Then again, maybe not GVSU, but someother bunk team.
and pay to watch it out the nose...forgot to mention that
What makes you think...
'Then again, with a new OC, new OL coach, new S&C (and possibly keeping everyone else including committed recruits, english, bedford, campbell, jackson) I might just buy into a "younger lloyd"'
...you get this mix of coaches? They all have two year contracts. You keep Debord and Moeller, my friend. How's that sound?
Urge to kill rising...
Meechigan Dan,
lmao
A lot of us would have to kill ourselves.....myself included.
by the way - by "I might just buy in - with some wins" doesn't mean I like the hire or that I don't think hiring him will end in disaster...
just me trying to optimistically rationalize things enough not to curl into a fetal position and cry myself to sleep...
-----
re the hawkeye lounge guys - i think it is clear brian said 1) he had sources who are actually in the athletic department over there (although some grapevine effect to be expected) and 2) it seems UM sources confirm SOMETHING is going on although probably not an offer yet (at least not one they want leaked) and 3) the hawkeye lounge guys are morons who are overinflating the effect of their antics due to coincidental actual events occuring
Not sure if this was already posted, but Det Free Press online is denying any Ferentz-Michigan dealings:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.d...040/1048/
SPORTS
coaching search!!!!
omgz if failerentz is hired i will never watch michigan again!!111!!!
They have contracts, but it doesn't 100% mean they'll keep coaching -- only that they'll get paid regardless. If the new coach, Ferentz or whoever, doesn't want them, they won't coach.
I am definitely in the "Do Not Want" camp wrt Ferentz, but talking about how his hiring automatically means DeBord et al. stay is pure conjecture. We don't know that.
Brian - Just to clarify, I know you said that Hawkeye Lounge was not the source of the information, but are you also saying that the original post on Rivals was not the source either, but rather it was some non-message board Iowa insider?
dex,
the reason you will never watch Michigan again is because you will have already comitted suicide with Meeechigan Dan and myself
Meeechigan Dan - please see my clarification post at 2:43, I am just trying to be optimistic so that I can live through the day without every vessel in my brain exploding...
I honestly totally think this would be a disaster.
Can't someone just hire tonya harding to pull a nancy kerrigan on MDB?
It'd be helpful if somebody posted Bill's email address so we alumni could protest rumored candidates. Any outcry, large enough, can provide some influence. Bill may need to be reminded that there are the masses sitting outside his tower.
In Carr's press conference he said that former UM President Lee Bollinger never liked football but understand the role (and importance) of collegiate athletics. If Ferenz is hired, I have to believe that neither Coleman nor Martin understand the value.
According to Forbes, Michigan has the #4 most profitable program (after Notre Dame, Texas, and Georgia). Success on the gridiron equates to money in the bank. I don't know why Martin would risk that by choosing a ho-hum replacement for Carr. We've seen how fast storied programs can tank (Notre Dame, Nebraska, and even Alabama).
As for whether my individual opinion matters, it should. I donate to the athletic department, I purchase season tickets, I maintain a constant supply of licensed products. You piss enough people like me off and suddenly it matters.
My husband and I are debating which bowl game to go to (Michigan's or Georgia's). I'm so disgusted with this whole Ferenz talk that I'm about to roll over and say, "let's just go watch Georgia." It will probably be in a warmer climate and I won't have an ulcer by the end of the game.
Sorry this is so negative but I'm just utterly baffled by the whole Ferenz discussion.
Can we make sure we don't schedule Western Michigan in the near future? Yikes. I'm legitimately sad right now, and it's still "just a rumor"
Brian's track record lately is too good to dismiss it out-of-hand, that's the worst of it.
I am glad Michigan hockey's doing so well...we might have to get used to thinking of UM as strictly a hockey school if the Ferentz rumors turn out to be true.
If "premature" is a direct quote, you have your answer: it's a non-denial denial.
Non-denial denials are only issued for one reason.
They can't confirm but they won't lie and refute.
It means they're talking without a deal in place.
It also means, unless Bill Martin is better at this than Kissinger, that KF is the first choice because you can't do two of these at the same time.
There is another Iowa board with a reliable poster (historically reliable, with an athletic department insider) who is confirming negotiations.
I think Brian knows what he is doing here.
I hear there's a sale on torches down at the Home Depot.
--Just the Facts
GJP-
As nice as that would be, Bill Martin doesn't give a shit. It is irritating but he is going to do what he wants because he knows most of us will continue to pay. We all say that we won't buy tickets boycott the program etc but at the end of the day it will never happen.
"Non-denial denials are only issued for one reason.
They can't confirm but they won't lie and refute.
It means they're talking without a deal in place."
word. i am going to die now of spontaneous combustion.
How for a second doesn't think that one of the reasons Ferentz is a candidate is that he will keep the current coaching staff - with slight tweaking - in tact? He is fighting tooth and nail now to keep the heat off his OC and to keep 100% of his coaches, some who are of Debord's caliber.
I'm not offing myself if Ferentz is hired. The only way I do the deed is if Debord gets the job.
While not my top choice, I happen to like Ferentz. At least enough to give him a shot if he does get the job.
Meeech etc.,
Which are of DeBord's quality?
I am curious Gold,
Facts etc.
I'm trying to think of the most fitting way to commit suicide should UM hire Ferentz and retain DeBord, Moeller and Gittleson. Is there any way to "zone left" yourself to death?
"Ferrets get proffered by slobs!"
I find it incredible that Bill Martin would ignore this piece of information, and is indicative that MSC is interfering in a very destructive way.
A major part of Lloyd Carr's problems over the last four seasons was repeatedly allowing his ferrets to be proferred by slobs, and it's obvious that Debord was part of this. Brian Kelly would never allow this to happen, and he deserves an interview for this reason alone. Not Chuck Martin, though.
Until Urban Meyer has made it clear where he stands on ferrets vs slobs, he should not be considered a viable candidate.
ESPN has been talking all morning about how Ferentz is on the top of a short list for the Michigan head coaching position.
MRG-- maybe have Gittelson put you through HIT until you die from fatigue. Oh wait. I just remembered. HIT is outdated and weak, I don't think you COULD overdo it.
MRG,
Ask Mike Hart's ankle about the deadly qualities of "Zone Left overdose".
Gittleson could make me eat pizza until I explode.
some of you need some paxil and a nice nap
kirk ferentz isnt the end of the world or of michigan football.
just because he isn't the flavor of the moment or your own personal heart's favorite doesn't mean you need to start sending bill martin nastygrams and pretending he gives a damn about your merchandise purchases
Email AD Bill Martin:
wcmartin@umich.edu
I know it's fun to think we know more about football and business than the people doing their jobs while we write our blogs and make our posts, but do you guys really think Bill and MSC are so simple minded and feeble that they haven't done some legit research into this? I hear cries we haven't contacted the best...well how do you *know* they haven't called Urban and Pete and all the other dream candidates? Why would a simple call and refusal ever make the news? Maybe they have been watching Ferentz all year, maybe they see something that we don't. I'm willing to give them a benefit of the doubt and not pretend that I'm better informed about picking the new coach than they are.
"I have no idea whether he'd take it or not but if you put a gun to my head I would say he turns it down."
"Dude, calm down!"
Ha.
Brian,
You are a back peddler and a liar as well. You know you posted some BS based off of my fake post. You go caught.
Good luck with EVER having credibility again.
www.hawkeyelounge.com
iowahawkeyess
bsb, I don't think you understand. It is not a matter of sour grapes that we don't get our flavor of the day. It is the fact that you could not comb the entire earth with the help of King Moonracer and Santa and find a coach more likely to duplicate the last 7 years of Lloyd Carr than KF.
ANY other coach - Miles, Kelly, Peterson, Schiano, Rodriguez, Meyer, Richt, Carroll, Gruden, Perles, Bugs Bunny - would bring a glimmer of hope, of deliverence from seven years of excruciating pain watching this team underachieve and lose key games. THAT's why the reaction against Ferentz. But I only speak for myself.
I see the level of discourse just went up 10 notches.
Is that the real iowahawkeyess?? That would be great, becuase as much as I admire Brian, I want him to be wrong!
ok so now that we know this ferentz thing is bullshit can we get back to les miles to michigan, that had me feeling pretty good
As of today, the head coaching job is posted. So that's taken care of.
I think it's all a joke by some Iowa fans...(notice the date/time on the post)
http://hawkeyelounge.com/showthr...ead.php?
t=17047
I think we all WANT brian to be very wrong this time.
I cant tell what Iowa fans want, seems mixed.
MD,
Do you really think that Ferentz would leave his alma mater and the highest coaching salary in the Big 10 to be saddled with Lloyd Carr's coaching staff?
Do you really think KF... former NFL offensive line coach, KF... would retain an offensive staff that promotes a system that he does not run?
Lloyd got 2-year contracts for his guys because he didn't want them to go a year without a job. Not knowing how his exit would play out, this saves him from the guilt that would undoubtedly play on his mind if he left an an inopportune time for the coaches in their job search (remember, his leaving was "solely for the betterment of Michigan").
You may not like Ferentz, but he is still a coveted coach with pride. He's not going to be saddled with Lloyd's staff AND take a pay cut just because this is Michigan. Jebus.
Yes, it is the real me.
Brian is way off here and ran with a completely false rumor.
Iowahawkeyess-
so we know you started the rumors on the rivals board...but are you trying to say you guys gave brian the "inside info" he used to make his first claim that Ferentz was offered the job but probably would not accept?
If any of you are serious about killing yourselfs--then do us all a favor and tape yourself to Ferentz and then pull the pin.
I know, that kind of retards the initial impetus, but we would all be forever thankful.
Martin said in the Freep the other day that he wants a 'good' coach and a 'great' man. Not a good sign. IOW's, he'll take losing seasons as long as the program isn't smeared by bad behaving peoples.
This sucks like outer space. It it is so....
WORST. HIRE. EVER!
It's the internet. False rumors fuel us.
It's great Brian broke the Lloyd story and I congratulate him, but I'd hate to see this fun rumor-mongering and frothing debate over a genuinely interesting topic (the actual search) take a backseat to another beyond boring debate on journalistic ethics.
Ian, I do think that KF will be keeping much of the staff, yes. Lloyd is involved, loyalty to a fault matters to both these men, and if this University is football-dumb enough to go after Ferentz, they are football-dumb enough to expect him to keep the people here.
Maybe that's why he turns it down, I dunno.
Whatever iowahawkeyess, I vote you to be a flamer even though I pray, pray, pray BC is wrong on this one.
That said, how many sons does KF have currently playing for him? Even if it is just one, he won't leave him.
elnolewis, sort of like a girl with a "great personality."
Note: "Do you really think that Ferentz would leave his alma mater..."
Yes, I know it isn't really his alma mater... bad choice of words, but you know what i mean.
just heard on college football live that ron english interviewed for the head coaching job. great.
Do you think maybe Martin said he wants someone like Carr to blow smoke up his ass...afterall Martin was the one who came to Lloyd and said if you are going to retire let me know asap. Sounds like he was giving him the option to retire but really kind of wanted to move on to a new coach.
I mean what is Martin going to say in a press conference: "Lloyd was a horrible coach and we want something different not the same old shit year after year with 4 loss seasons." Come on...yeah maybe he does really want a Lloyd clone, but then again maybe he doesn't.
I would take English over Ferentz.
Anyone who says Ferentz will absorb someone else's staff in order to get a job is unhinged.
Iowa has had more staff continuity than any Big Ten team.
Just another fact that's being ignored.
There are many reasons for English to get an interview, one reason more then most....i wont elaborate for those that cant figure out why.
I refuse to get worked up about this after what happened with the Steelers this past year.
As much as sources are necessary, even the best are unreliabe unless they are directly from the horses mouth. Brian has more credibility now because of the Carr retirement news, yet this is still a toucy subject. If Martin did have a list of 30 candidates, why is he only talking to 1 person then hiring him (Marty Mornhinweg anyone)? Martin didn't run a successful business by acting like this.
None of this makes any sense, so I refuse to be angry over any of this.
Then I am unhinged.
@dex
I love your posts, but I would never ever want that douchebag Urban Meyer as the head coach of U of M.
Aaron, exactly.
U of M can get KF anytime they want. If you are going to do this, why not pretend you are being thorough so you at least have a credible defense to give to those fan-peasants holding the pitchforks and torches?
He is a candidate. A strong one. End of story.
How can we even consider a guy who can't beat Iowa State?? It bead enough that Lloyd can't beat OSU, but at least they are annually in the top 5. Iowa State is the door mat of the Big 12. Even Mizzou and Kansas have progressed.
Iowa's record:
2005: 7-5
2006: 6-7
2007: 6-6
We were up in arms over a 7-5 season after consecutive trips to the Rose Bowl. KF is clearly on the downstroke of his career. Ever since Zook and Fat Chuck arrived in the Midwest and began getting the Illinois/Chicago recruits, Iowa has failed to keep pace.
Here's the job posting. Get your applications in now. Please God, anyone but Debord or Ferentz. GO BLUE!
Job ID: 13431
Job Title: HEAD FOOTBALL COACH
Job/Career Family: Athletics
Country: United States of America
State: Michigan
City: Ann Arbor
Job Type: Regular
Full Time: Yes
Date Posted: Nov 26 2007
Minimum Salary:
Maximum Salary:
Salary Frequency: Annual
Job Description and Responsibilities: Market Title: Head Football Coach
FLSA: Exempt
Salary Range: To be Determined
Hours/Week: 40
Shift: Days/Evenings/Weekends
The University of Michigan invites applications for the position of Head Football Coach. This position entails the leadership of all phases of the Football program. Responsibilities include, but are not limited to; coaching, the recruitment of qualified student-athletes, support of the academic progress of student-athletes, budget management, and community relations.
Job Requirements: Minimum qualifications: Bachelor’s degree required. A thorough knowledge of NCAA rules and regulations is required.
Preferred qualifications: Graduate degree. Previous collegiate head coaching experience.
Love the job posting:
Job ID: 13431
Job Title: HEAD FOOTBALL COACH
Job/Career Family: Athletics
Job Description and Responsibilities: Market Title: Head Football Coach
FLSA: Exempt
Salary Range: To be Determined
Hours/Week: 40
Shift: Days/Evenings/Weekends
The University of Michigan invites applications for the position of Head Football Coach. This position entails the leadership of all phases of the Football program. Responsibilities include, but are not limited to; coaching, the recruitment of qualified student-athletes, support of the academic progress of student-athletes, budget management, and community relations.
Job Requirements: Minimum qualifications: Bachelor’s degree required. A thorough knowledge of NCAA rules and regulations is required.
Preferred qualifications: Graduate degree. Previous collegiate head coaching experience.
Department Name: Athletics
Org Group: INTERCOLLEG ATHLETIC
Campus: Ann Arbor
Minimum Salary:
Maximum Salary:
Salary Frequency: Annual
PTO: No
Job Type: Regular
Full Time: Yes
Date Posted: Nov 26 2007
@UofMinTX
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Urban on a personal level. But I've seen quite a few try to advocate for him as if he would even be interested
Serenity now...serenity now...
Man, you must have clicked right before I did.
40 hours a week? Maybe not.
i guess i did. sorry Other Chris.
@gmb
We already had someone bring up race regarding English. Of course that ignores the fact he is the Defensive Coordinator and therefore a mortal lock to get an interview no matter his color, but why not toss in some inflammatory rhetoric anyway!
"A thorough knowledge of NCAA rules and regulations is required."
Wow, Michigan really does have higher standards.
well hell if the minimum qualification is a Bachelors degree then I can apply. I would be a shoe in...I have a BA in History from UofM and am working toward earning a teaching certificate from UofM.
What a joke.
Ok, so we all seem to want someone fresh, interesting, and a winner.
I've got two words.
Mark. Mangino.
Ferentz is a stud.
Ferentz comes from the Bellichek coaching tree.
Let's look at three of Iowa's most decorated players going into the NFL: Robert Gallery, Dallas Clark, Eric Steinbach, and Bruce Nelson. With the exception of Gallery, each of these players were WALKONS. Yes, WALKONS that were developed into FIRST ROUND NFL picks. Oh, and Gallery was recruited as a 2-star Tight End.
If you've watched LSU's games this year, I think you will agree that Les is not whom we want. So you don't want Ferentz. Then who? Whom do you propose? Kelly who is only a couple of years removed from coaching in D2? Who's better?
@Pete,
I'll take a coach that can get a team with a terrible QB to 10-2. If you have watched any LSU games this fall, you will realize that Flynn only completes passes in the late 4th quarter. His terrible play up to that point has placed LSU in dire situations all year.
Kelly who is only a couple of years removed from coaching in D2?
Seems that Sweatervest guy was zero years removed from coaching in 1-AA.
Wasn't Bob Sanders (#21 on the Colts) also an Iowa walk on? Was he any good in college?
@Pete
We all seem to have forgotten who we wanted earlier in the year.
His name is Jeff, and he is the anti-MDB. For all I care, he can keep English as the DC. Just bring the playbook.
Pete, you're not correct. Maybe a nice guy, but not correct.
Repost:
I do not live and die with Les Miles. I prefer him over Ferentz and slightly over Kelly because of his roots. But someone with this track record cannot be tossed out as a bad coach:
In his first season as coach LSU won the 2005 SEC Western Division title with a 10-1 regular season record -- including wins over #15 Arizona State (9/10/05), #11 Florida (10/15/05), #16 Auburn (10/22/05) and #4 Alabama (11/12/05). LSU's only regular season loss was an upset at home to #10 Tennessee (9/26/05). In the Tennessee game, after building a 21-0 lead at halftime, the Tigers failed to score another touchdown and lost to UT 30-27 in overtime. In the SEC Championship Game in Atlanta, Georgia, the #3-ranked LSU Tigers, though favored, lost to #13 Georgia 34-14. LSU recovered to win the 2005 Peach Bowl with a 40-3 romp of the #9-ranked Miami Hurricanes. Miles finished his first season at LSU with an 11-2 record, a #6 ranking in the USA Today Coaches Poll, and a #5 ranking in the AP Poll.
In 2006, LSU finished the regular season with ten wins (10-2), and ended the season with six straight wins. 2006 marked the first time in LSU history that the Tigers finished with back-to-back 10-win seasons. Miles was able to do this in spite of his team playing its four toughest games on the road. All four games were against teams ranked in the top eight when the game took place, with three of the teams in the top five (Auburn, Florida, Arkansas). LSU split those four games, losing to Auburn and Florida, but beating Tennessee and Arkansas. LSU did not win the SEC West title, finishing one game behind Arkansas. However, the Tigers were ranked ahead of Arkansas at the end of the regular season, and were rewarded with an invitation to face Notre Dame in the Sugar Bowl where they defeated the Irish 41-14. LSU finished the 2006 season ranked #3 overall in both the AP and ESPN polls.
In 2007, Miles gained national attention due to numerous unconventional play calls during nationally televised games. LSU won the 2007 SEC Western Division title and was ranked #1 twice during the regular season. LSU lost its final regular season game at home to unranked Arkansas 50-48 in triple-overtime and lost its #1 ranking.
You may not like him, but those accomplishments and victories DWARF Ferentz's accomplishments.
The job posting is a generic one for a head coach. They all pretty much look like that.
I feel so weak. The light is so beautiful. I should go to the light. I feel so calm and at peace with myself. Oh, no!! Damn it!! Just another dream of a quiet and painless death. Back to the reality of Michigan football. Anguish, pain, betrayal, and now the possibility of Ferentz. What did I do?? Why hast though forsaken me?? Oh football God's save Michigan's football program from itself. The slow motion car crash that we thought had come to an end instead is now wreckage with gasoline leaking and several small fires that could explode.
umm, they have a 5 star in perriloux just sitting on the bench. personally, i think flynn is fine. but is it possible miles has completely mishandled his quarterback situation?
the sweatervest had a little more experience than kelly. that's for sure.
Courtesy interview... Martin already said he wants someone with head coaching experience, which discounts English.
I never thought I'd see the day when a UM board has Hawkeye trolls.
iowahawkeyess welcome aboard!
Brian - you are too defensive. Lay all info out there and make no excuses
@Pete,
Perrilloux is a redshirt sophmore, who only saw mop up duty last year. Not exactly an experienced signal caller. Given a choice between a guy who has been in the system for several years and a RS soph, its not a difficult choice.
@gmb...
we don't need that %#$^%$# here...
Take your racist BS somewhere else.
@ Meeeechigan Dan,
are you seriously going to just cite Miles' ability to coach a team loaded with NFL prospects to two loss seasons as indisputable proof of his greatness?
the few seasons ferentz has had marginal talent at iowa, they have won big 10 titles and won at least 10 games.
oklahoma st is a better program than iowa, especially for recruiting. considerably. yet, miles managed to accomplish 'les' there than ferentz has at iowa.
three years ago, ferentz was considered one of the game's preeminent coaches. undoubtedy. hence, he has one of the highest paying salaries in the ncaa. also, the fact that he's been courted several times by nfl teams shows that how viable a candidate he is.
as a side note, forgetting what transpired this weekend against "are-kansas" (another sign of his sheer stupidity), i will always have the indelible memory of les furiously trying to rush up the sideline to call a timeout after lsu intercepted a tennessee pass and then having to be restrained by his coaches who reminded him that the clock stops on a change of possession.
We should ALL very politely e-mail Bill Martin and President Coleman and tell them that a storied program deserves a coach with the potential to be legendary. Ferentz is mediocre in every way. He should be clearly unacceptable at Michigan. No, no, no.
SERENITY NOW!!!!!!
Just sent in my application. Bill Martin responded immediately and offered the job. I told him any organization that would have me isn't good enough for me. I quit.
Told him Steve Mariucchhi is still available.
Told him Wayne Fontz is worth a look.
Jerry Faust is out there someplace.
Hope they don't screw this us. Afraid they will.
OH, the huge manaties!
@ bluespark,
"Ferentz is mediocre in every way."
This is just sheer ignorance. Please, do some research on the guy. See what he's done with what he's had to work with. Ferentz is the antithesis of mediocrity. He has gotten his teams to consistently overachieve...something that has been sort of a problem in aa. and if you ask me, the single most indispensable quality in a new coach should be his ability to get the most out of his players. because, i think we all would agree, michigan sports, year in and year out, top 5 talent.
@ Pete:
What's it like in 2004? Is Chubawumba still in? Can you still buy an Oldsmobile? What's happening on Friends?
People keep saying that he overachieves with mediocre talant, what does this say about his recruiting skills??? (not being sarcastic, but I'm curious)
@ MRG,
What's it like in 2007? Is Pete Caroll available? Is Bill Bellichek out there?
Please, let me know.
@JASON:
ferentz' first four records:
1-10
3-8
7-5
11-2
the guy can coach. i'm not convinced he's 'the guy,' but those first four seasons are part of his record, too.
Pete, that is the most cliched (and untrue) argument used against any coach who wins with talent. We've heard it in every sport.
He's won with talent and he's maintained the level of talent in recruiting, so it would be safe to argue that he continues to win with talent? Your point? Hire a coach who can coach slow crappy players over a coach who can recruit talent and win with it?
Ferentz is an absolute Lloyd clone. It is as if Lloyd would un-retire. That may float your boat - it sinks mine.
@uofmintix,
i agree, this would be a natural question to ask. but i would simply ask you to remember that he coaches in IOWA. IOWA. IOWA. i can see someone like donovan warren or ronald johnson just foaming at the mouth to go play football for the hawkeyes.
i think his recruiting skills are almost mute. i don't think you even need to be a dynamic personality to recruit at michigan. the program, the tradition, it sells itself. i'm not sure about you, but i don't lloyd carr oozing with dynamic qualities. and yet, he managed to consistently reel in a top 10 class
I don't mind Ron English if he would fire Mike DeBord immediately.
Hey, if you want to maintain Michigan's tradition of players becoming slower and less talented, then hire a coach who can coach slow, untalented players. Makes sense.
\Mark. Mangino.//
That would certainly add an extra dimension to the ND series...which coach will be the first to pull a John McSherry and collapse on the sideline.
If you are going to knock a man for saying "are-kansas" instead of "are-ken-saw", then it would be beneficial to not say things like "mute" when you mean "moot."
Johnny, we'd all be too tempted to do adopt the Celtic tradition of the leaders battling it out to see which army wins. A sumo match at midfield would simple be too tempting to pass up.
CNNSI has Michigan playing in the Champ Sports Bowl...oh so exciting.
@Pete
I know LLLLoyd brings in top 10 recruiting classes year after year, but I would like to see a guy come in here and consistently bring in top 5 classes because he can flat out recruit, not just because he is in a prestigious school.
Yinka, point well taken. Bottom line is you just can't definitively tell how good a fit any of these guys will be in A2 (Miles to Ferentz to...Fontes-jk on that last one, I think...) Who could have predicted Tressel's level of success this soon in Div 1-A, even given his success in 1-AA? Some might have hoped, but many would never have dreamed he would be as successful as he has been this soon (as much as it pains me to say it).
@Matt,
Lloyd won a national championship in 1997, his third year at the helm. Does that imply that he is STILL the best coach for the job? Absolutely not. Larry Coker won an MNC. Charlie Wies has two two loss regular seasons after taking over a mediocre program. Bobby Bowden has two MNCs. Joe Paterno has won MNCs. I wouldn't hire any of them! Like my previous examples, the trajectory of KF is downward. Your argument is factually correct, but misses the point entirely.
83, LOL. I wasn't going to touch that!
@ meechigan dan,
you can have your misconceptions about ferentz being an absolute lloyd clone, but i don't see lloyd developing walk-ons into 1st round nfl caliber players. sorry. in fact, his failure to develop his players was one of his most detrimental qualities.
and i'm not sure how aware you are of the workings of college football but every big program in the last fifteen years has had a couple years of downswing. a lot of programs are still stuck in it. all have had this regression EXCEPT for michigan. so, i guess you need to reorder your priorities and ask yourself: do i want to risk everything that has been established here in the last 15 years by hiring a wild card like kelly or a crook like miles? or do you want to try and build on what has been started with a sort of extension of lloyd, with the possibility of building upon what's here? i'll take the latter, the less riskier proposition with the knowledge that ferentz is capable of getting his players to overachieve, which was the single-most negative quality of the lloyd carr era.
Pete, we don't mind that you think Ferentz would be a decent coach. He probably would be a solid 9-3/8-4 guy. I bet you he is a helluva guy, too. But you really shouldn't argue he is a stud because he has coached some crappy players to competence. Has this skill of making crappy players win gone missing the last three years? Or is there a point where a player is just too crappy to coach?
Les Miles is a crook? Please provide evidence.
2007 is cool. I'll bring you up to speed. Over the past 3 years, Ferentz has a 19-18 record with weak recruting and a blind allegiance to shitty coordinators. Les Miles has a 32-6 record with great recruiting and a propensity to hire excellent coordinators (until Bo Pelini crapped the bed).
I don't even think Ferentz would be that terrible, assuming he fires DeBord, Moeller and Gittleson. But to ignore the recent past is delusional.
About the Asst. Coach's two year salary deals- isn't this just a way for LC to give them all nice severance packages in case they are not retained? I mean, the new HC is not forced to keep anyone he doesn't specifically want, correct? Too many people here have mentioned being stuck with DeBord, etc., but I can't imagine that would be true, and if UM is willing to pay Ferentz $4M, they wouldn't really trip over the $1M aggregate Asst Coach salary, would they?
Please provide some facts as to why Miles is a crook.
yes, and you're right it is moot. i noticed that after i submitted. i apologize. i'm sure my spelling error is comensurate with les sounding like an utter jackass.
lol Miles a crook? How so?
Of course you will take the less riskier option...that is the problem with Michigan. We get into a comfort zone and don't want to break out of it. We need something different and exciting. We haven't won an NC since 97...we haven't been Ohio State since 03. We haven't won a bowl game the past few years and probably won't win it this year....why would we want to go with something less risky.
Take the freakin risk...if it doesn't work out then it doesn't work out but honestly trying something new would be better than watching this shit for another season.
two words:
jae (sp?) eugene.
and didn't Brian outline a post about Les' recruiting violations @ Oklahoma St a while back?
I don't see the big deal on the way Miles pronounced it. A lot of people in fact pronounce it that way. Big freakin deal! At least it would bring some variety instead of the same old shit we get at our pressers week after week ie Lloyds monotone voice saying that yet again we obviously were not prepared...
Ask Nebraska how taking the riskier guy worked out. They don't even know what to do with themselves now. They got rid of Solich, who looks like an absolute legend in retrospect, for a sexy pick in Callahan, and that went nowhere and fast. I look at their position right now, and I cringe at the possibility of being there four years down the road.
wow. he kept pursuing a recruit that had verbally committed to Michigan. These recruits do have time to change their mind and take back their verbal commitment.
That is why recruiting is competitive. It's not like he broke any rules by getting Eugene. He just simply made LSU more appealing than Michigan obviously. Just because someone verbally commits does not mean that they aren't fair game to still contact...I'm sure Lloyd has pursued recruits that have verbally committed somewhere else.
Jai Eugene decided to stay close to home to be near his infant son. Unless Les bought him a diamond encrusted pacifier, I fail to see the relevance.
This whole thing reminds me of the Indiana Bball search after Davis resigned/was fired........you had a large majority of the fan base genuflecting for Steve Alford....the prodigal son, alum, only he and his love for the school could bring IU back to the top.....of course, the current school he was employed at could not wait for him to go.....coincidence, that school was Iowa......anyway, the IU AD did a complete search and surprised everybody by hiring Kelvin Sampson.....people were in revolt; ex players trashed him with one saying he would not let him coach a middle school team.....last year, IU played with more passion that they had in years, fans in the stands chanted the coaches' name and wore blue suit shirts to honor him and suddenly IU is now getting those in-state recruits that had shunned the university who many before had thought would only come back to IU unless they hired from the IU family..as for Alford, he flamed out and ran to New Mexico...IU is a top-10 team this year, but still got bitch slapped by Xavier over the weekend.....but I think they did well with Sampson, a good coach who now gets a chance to prove what he could do with top of the line bball resources.....as for Michigan, there are a lot of good coaches out there who will become great if given the chance to perform at a place like michigan which annually hauls in some of the best talent available.
Ferentz is one of those guys, sure.....but there are many others out there.....I hope we look at everyone before making a decision.
Does this post mean anything or even relevant.....I dont know, but I thought it was a different line of thought....take it for its worth.
@Pete
Callahan's players hated him, plus he came from the NFL. That kind of transition usually PHAILS, e.g. Weiss E. Coyote.
Miles pronounced it "Ar-KANSAS" because people down there are acutally pretty sensitive to that, so much so, they have passed resolutions in the state legislature stating that the correct pronunciation is "ar-kan-SAW" (I saw this in a book about dumb state laws). And it wasn't the first time he said that...so I think there was a purpose behind that..even though they didn't win.
Pete,
Or commensurate, even.
i guess none of us will know for sure what happend with eugne. but i refuse to dismiss lloyd taking exception to the way the whole scenario played as not significant/indicative of miles's role in the matter.
Wow, did someone arrest Miles?!
How can Michigan get touchy about pursuing a player with a stated interest in a program? Henne had been leaning towards PSU from an early age. Loef works on the kid for a long time and suddenly, Henne is pulling out a Michigan hat at his presser. That is the nature of the beast. Until the letter of intent is faxed in, there is no committment.
Maybe Miles will bring some variety to this program I don't think he will b e classless but he won't act like this is some socialite ball...look at what clean and classy has gotten us the past 5 years...absolutely nothing.
If someone arrested Miles for that, John L should have been locked up last year for assault/battery when he slapped himself on national television.
Matt Flynn may kinda suck, but in terms of recruiting, he was a 4-star QB. Stop talking about LSU not having a "talented QB". He was "talented" in regards to recruiting, but I think that's how we all measure "talented". Maybe he didn't turn into a good college QB, but he certainly had the "talent" coming in. Maybe that has something to do w/ development, maybe it doesn't...but stop with this "LSU doesn't even have a talented QB!" nonsense. They have two.
Guys, you're missing the point. Rumor has it that Les Miles IMPREGNATED Jai Eugene's girlfriend just to convince Jai to stay in La. What a jerk!
henne came to michigan because morrelli commited to psu, not because michigan stole him
And stop saying just because Les "stole" Eugene that he is a crook or a jackass...gimme a break and stop seeing things so one-sided(ly).
I just have a yearning to see Michigan run an inventive offense, and maybe have a QB that can work outside the pocket. Am I alone?
Actually, I believe Henne committed to UM before Morelli committed to PSU.
i guess none of us will know for sure what happend with eugne.
I'll agree with you there. There's been a lot of crap thrown at Miles and his "negative" recruiting against Lloyd and Michigan. I've heard everything from the mild ("Jai, I think you should stay closer to home and your baby and come to LSU.") to the sordid ("James, Lloyd has Parkinsons and is going to die tomorrow. Thursday at the latest."). I don't think it would take much negative recruiting from Miles for Lloyd to perceive it as an insult to himself and the program. We'll probably never know the real story.
Yeah, Pete, you have that 100% backwards. Morelli was the PSU consulation prize when Henne jumped ship.
IIRC, Morelli was all but committed to Pitt, and then Henne committed to UM, and then Morelli committed to PSU.
Who's doing the reporting around here? Sean Hannity or Mike Wallace?
You are wrong about the Morrelli comment. Henne had an offer as well. His decision was not a product of Morrelli, rather his relationship with Loef and our track record of NFL QBs. PSU fans still vent over losing Henne to us. Paterno did not gush and play the game of aggressively pursuing a player, where Loef did. That's why he has been our QB for the last four years.
kgh10 has it right. PSU thought they had some kind of silent commit from Henne before he chose Michigan.
Ferentz is fine in my book as long as he publicly shitcans Da-Bored, Git, and Moeller.
Bill Martin will have a full blown coaching search he's not going to let the internet community influence his decision.
Interesting blog...
http://community.foxsports.com/
b...coaching_search
The thing is Pete has been making statements regarding Miles, then when they get shot down he just brings out new ones to try. The bottom line is you don't like Les Miles, we get it, and some of us on here do, you aren't going to persuade us otherwise and I'm sure we aren't going to turn you either.
\I just have a yearning to see Michigan run an inventive offense, and maybe have a QB that can work outside the pocket. Am I alone?//
Nup...every time I watch WVU I think "Why can't that be us?"
In Pete's defense, I don't think Ferentz warrants as much negativity as he's getting. I admit that I'd be disappointed, as I'm hoping for a bit more of an "exciting" coach, but I don't really doubt that Ferentz is a good teacher and game planner. I doubt is recruiting a little, but it's hard to tell how much is him, and how much is Des Moines.
@Meechigan Dan: From a previous comment thread.....i wasn't really offended by the apologist thing, I just didn't think there was any harm in listing some pros and cons to Ferentz......there are both.....had Lloyd retired after 2005 I would have been totally on board w/ Ferentz, but not so much now.....one thing I would point out....you mentioned something about wanting to just step on the field and blow the lesser foes out......KF did that at Iowa. In fact, he was like the new Spurrier as far as destroying lesser teams and covering big point spreads.....I believe he was like 19-2 ATS as double digit favorite and was a lock to cover at home every game.....that all changed last year when they covered just once in Iowa City in a season in which they flat out totally underachieved....they were pretty solid at home this year, but fell to IU (yikes) and then WMU (double yikes! And, after turning the season around, too).....that and his constant failures vs ISU have really taken the bloom off him, in my opinion.....but, his ability to build O-Lines and Detroit recruiting still make him intriguing....like I said maybe the next Ghoulston wont end up in Columbus....but, these last two years have really made me question Ferentz as such a good coach because the Big 10 has been down and he has not been able to take advantage of it......but, he has covered the spread in 80% of his homes games at Iowa.....just imagine how easy on our hearts it would be if Michigan did that?!?!?!
not promoting KF, just trying to see the positive of it because I wont be giving up my seats or my fandom based on the coaching hire.
Keep on posting here and on your blog as I love your insight!!
@chitownblue '00
Morrelli = worst consolation prize ever.
Johnny - I saw their game this weekend, and kept watching White run all over the place, and kept muttering "How awesome would it be to have someone like that???"
Harbaugh - agreed.
chitown...NO, you are not!
Has The Orgeron been contacted yet about the Michigan job?
That being said - why do people hate Rich Rodriguez again?
@00goblue,
you said i keep making statements regarding miles. i referred to him as a crook based on my understanding of the jeugene ordeal. him public blasting USC and the pac10 earlier this year also gives me added ammo to question his character. and like i said, im pretty sure i remember brian had posted a while ago something about violations during his time at oklahoma st.
Isn't the whole entire point of hiring a new coach to deviate from the attitude, tendencies and problems that caused the incumbent coach to be fired (or resign) in the first place? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't almost every single sports franchise when they hire a new coach go the opposite route, for example if their previous coach was a "player's coach" then the coach they bring in to replace him would presumably be a "disciplinarian" type coach, because if you hire another like the first one isn't the whole coaching change completely moot? Thus my preference for a Les Miles or a Brian Kelly or a Jeff Tedford or hell even a Jim Harbaugh (yes, I know it won't happen) because it seems to me that those guys would be DIFFERENT from Carr. Ferentz seems to much like a mini-Carr to me and I would much prefer a more modern, progressive coach (for example, such as the coach from Boise whose name escapes me) then a retread who's program has underachieved the last several years.
The guy that wrote the blog in Wolverine in S. FLA's post made a point for Chris Peterson at Boise State. Interesting......
Jamie, thanks for the kind words. If Ferentz cleans house and does not bring his current OC, I think we might be surprised. But those are big ifs. And I will have a stroke if I have to go back to watching Lloydball on offense.
We are (were!) so close...
Barry, well said.
I think there's a definite case to be made that Miles is a dumbass, though I personally don't agree.
Crook? Not so much. I don't remember anything about recruiting violations at Okie State, though his players did not rate him highly on some anonymous coaching poll. Might be legit; might be sour grapes over a coach that was ditching them.
as a side note, forgetting what transpired this weekend against "are-kansas" (another sign of his sheer stupidity), i will always have the indelible memory of les furiously trying to rush up the sideline to call a timeout after lsu intercepted a tennessee pass and then having to be restrained by his coaches who reminded him that the clock stops on a change of possession.
umm, they have a 5 star in perriloux just sitting on the bench. personally, i think flynn is fine. but is it possible miles has completely mishandled his quarterback situation?
plus the crook comment. You threw out a bit more than just that. Again we get you don't like him, but that isn't going to persuade those of us that do to not...I'm not saying your comments are horrible or anything, all I was saying was that everytime you said something and someone shot it down you moved onto another "flaw" you find it Miles...all I'm saying.
\why do people hate Rich Rodriguez again?//
Pacman Jones, Chris Henry.
There’s several things about Ferentz that I would like to refute.
1. His early Iowa trajectory was awesome. 11-2 Rose Bowl congratulations. The last few years not so much. I would expect any coach with Ferentz's recent record at Michigan to be on the hot seat.
2. But he did it at Iowa!! I do not accept Iowa as a football desert. It’s not New Mexico State or something. Iowa has been a Big Ten power. There are plenty of football powerhouses in equally ‘boring’ non football rich states. Michigan should not pursue a coach who did pretty good some years at Iowa. They should pursue coaches who did really great at lesser schools or guys who built programs at unlikely places.
3. But he developed crappy guys into draft picks. He didn’t develop enough crappy guys to make consistently good football teams. I don’t care how good the players are before they come to Michigan or after they leave. I care how good they are when they are at Michigan. I don’t care at all about a first round draft pick if the team was 6-6.
4. Michigan cannot claim to be ‘the victors and the best’ if they choose the safe path because others have failed. Nebraska and Notre Dame chose poorly. Michigan must do better.
Ferentz may be better at Michigan than Iowa but he’d have to be a lot better and I don’t see that. Plus, every Iowa game I watch I’m disgusted with the game management and play calling. It’s worse than Michigan’s. I can see, mirrored in Iowa, how other teams viewed Michigan in recent years. Too much predictability and playing by the book—laying up for FGs, autopunts on 4th, going down quietly rather than breaking the mold. Ferentz intentionally took a safety to improve field position…
00goblue,
i think it's perfectly reasonable to keep bringing up all the problems with les when people want to look past the first couple.
Johnny Sideburns:
Larry Harrison, Johnny Sears, Kelly Baraka, Ray Jackson, Adrian Arrington, Carson Butler.
Come on, we like to pretend like we're above that stuff, but it's horseshit. I walked around that campus for four years and watched football players from broke homes on the East side of Detroit driving Chevy Suburbans with sound systems you could hear from a mile away.
I agree w/M-Dan. If it is Frenetz + brand new staff things won't get worse and probably would improve, but I'm still way disappointed that the "search" is/was so Carr-ish.
perrilloux is out because of off-field stuff, so that's actually a good thing Les Miles has done. Also, the Ar-Kansas business is probably on purpose, people from that awful state get really really riled up if their name is pronounced wrong. Like 'tOSU vs OSU', except with more bat-shit crazy and righteous indignation.
All of the problems? Yeah no coach is perfect but to not give him the job because he mispronounced Arkansas and "stole" a recruit from Michigan...give me a break.
Again, I wish Michigan would break the conservative and classy mold. It hasn't gotten us much in the past 5 years.
imafreak, that was brilliant.
Finally, we can go after Ted Roof.
Has The Orgeron been contacted yet about the Michigan job?
Yaw yaw yaw yaw yaw!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=n...feature=related
Dear God I hope so...
@ chitown: I think you mean Jerome, not Ray, Jackson and his chart topping hit, "Measly Penny."
\Come on, we like to pretend like we're above that stuff, but it's horseshit.//
Hey, I agree wholeheartedly. If Rich Rodriguez said he wanted to coach at Michigan not only would I go to chuch and light a candle (and I'm not even Catholic), I'd see if we could figure out a way to greyshirt Pat White and Steve Slaton to give them one year of eligibility in the Big House (not THAT "big house", obviously).
Here it is - I think Brian got hoodwinked. Bamboozled. Snookered.
Look at the date and the time stamps of the original post by Iowahawkeyes on the Michigan Rivals board declaring the rumor from a named source in the Iowa athletic dept (So-and-so Christensen) and then his post less than ten minutes later in Hawkeye Lounge, saying it was a joke (both on Saturday evening).
I hate to see this happen. A total dick, sophomoric move by "iowahawkeyes" and unfortunate that Brian's otherwise sterling credibility might end up getting dragged through the mud here, but I think this is a completely bogus rumor.
imafreak,
there's a difference between playing it safe and "being predictable" when your offense is severely handicapped by inferior talent.
someone referenced earlier iowa's amazing record ATS. there's a reason for that...because they overachieve, their performance is better than their talent would project. on the flip, michigan is perennially shitty ATS because they are supposed to have boatloads of talent but don't play up to it.
@HH
I understand the suspicion, but I don't think that was Brian's source. The irony is that this whole scenario is so awful that it makes for a pretty funny joke. Brian seems to have more sources than just message boards and second hand accounts of the message boards. If this turns out to be completely false, my guess is that something else, not the message boards, caused all this confusion.
Pete, what about the last three years? You are cherry-picking your data. We all admit Ferentz is an adequate coach. We do not want adequate.
lifting from the blog linked by wolverine in south fla:
Most Dangerous (to the rest of the Big Ten) Course of Action: Chris Petersen of Boise State. Ask any Oklahoma Sooner fan about this one; any coach who can defeat a national powerhouse in a BCS bowl game with WAC talent in his first season as a HC has a bright future. His Boise State offense combined with the sort of talent you can recruit to Michigan would be absolutely lethal to the rest of the Big Ten. He has one loss in two seasons in Boise, going into Friday's WAC tilt with Hawaii. Downsides? It would be viewed as a risky hire for Michigan because he only has two seasons of head coaching experience and has no Michigan connections. Oklahoma hiring Bob Stoops was risky. MacArthur landing at Inchon was risky. Ford introducing the Mustang was risky. Most Dangerous Courses of Action are always risky, which is why they seem so brilliant after the fact. If I'm Bill Martin I have the Governor of Michigan ride along in the Brinks truck to Boise to sell the Petersens on the joys of life in Michigan. It's that important.
I actually meant Ray Jackson, not Jerome. The fullback on the '97 team. I watched him bang a Sigma Chi frat boy's head on the wood fence until it bled because the kid tried to stop Ray Jackson and William Peterson (who got kicked out, because it was his 3rd strike) from stealing laptops that they had hidden under their t-shirts during a party.
I think it's safe to say that nothing has happened with Kirk Ferentz yet. Wow have I been freaking out over the past 16 hours even though I knew that it wasn't necessarily true.
Still, Kirk Ferentz is a better hire than Les Miles. Les is no coaching genius. Jim Tressel, on the other hand, is a phenomenal coach. We need someone who can compete with him. KF is probably not be that guy. I mean, he's 3-6 against IOWA STATE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!
Brian Kelly
Jim Grobe
Paul Johnson
Jim Leavitt
I like these four. BTW, many people are skeptical about Paul Johnson's ability to run his triple option at a BCS school, but he has said that he would have his QB throw more if he had a QB with a good arm. Ryan Mallet, anyone?
Until last year, wasn't Jim Grobe a failure for about 6 straight years?
"If I'm Bill Martin I have the Governor of Michigan ride along in the Brinks truck to Boise to sell the Petersens on the joys of life in Michigan. It's that important."
Oh good lord. Because Granholm has done such a tremendous job of selling our state to other people?
I'm glad that Bill Martin has more common sense than some random internet writer.
People should email Martin and make it clear that this guy should not be our #1 candidate. Will it make a difference? Who knows, but it can't hurt.
wcmartin@umich.edu
I haven't extensively researched what has gone on the last three seasons at Iowa, but...
It'd be extremely ignorant to point to the last three years as proof of Ferentz only being mediocre. How do we know what's happend? Maybe they've had just a rash of injuries that couldn't be overcome by the program's lack of depth. Maybe there were a few missteps along the way, or maybe finally the program's lack of depth (all the walk-ons and 2 star recruits) caught up to them. I don't really have an explanation for the last three seasons. But I'm less inclined to look at Ferentz as a main reason for their lack of success. I know that they had a VERY young team this year. Just because they have been less than stellar, does it mean that they ended their seasosn with a record worse than they should have had? I don't think you can look at them and say, "Oh, those are 10 win teams that went bad." I'm sure Bill Martin asked him that very question, though.
I do remember how well they rebounded against defending national champion Texas last season in their bowl game. In terms of talent they were clearly overmatched, but they were overwhelmingly well prepared to play that game and nearly won. He has beaten some really really good programs in bowl games in Florida and LSU as well.
Pete, I don't think anyone here really believes Ferentz won't be able to win games, it's just that Ferentz doesn't appear to be better than 9-3 or 8-4 at Michigan.
Now, is that the worst thing ever? No. But is that taking advantage of the opportunity of Lloyd's retirement to improve the Program? Absolutely not, and that's the problem. If Michigan hires Ferentz, we're looking at 10 more years of this s--t, and I was hoping for a real change, not window dressing.
Ferentz has a long enough track record for us to safely make some conclusions about his capabilities. He is what his record is, and his career record is .500. Now, he would probably have a better record at Michigan because of better recruiting cachet and more resources, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that he'll magically turn into a dominating coach just because he wears Maize and Blue (that attitude, BTW, is pretty arrogant).
A career 6-6 guy heading a perennial 10-2 program will probably end up somewhere in the middle...8-4. He's going to be the exact same as Lloyd- 3 or 4 losses every year, out of the national title hunt before October, not keeping up with Tressel- and he'll be waaaaaay more expensive than Lloyd.
Speaking for myself, blowing this opportunity for fundamental change would totally suck ass, and Michigan should be better than this.
Hat-
We can e-mail him until the cows come home, he won't give a crap.
Furthermore we can all stand up and say we won't buy tickets, Michigan gear etc the bottom line is he knows this won't happened. Basically we are Martins bitches and he knows it lol.
"blowing this opportunity for fundamental change would totally suck ass"
Completely agree. I think that's the heart of the problem right there. if this rumor is true, then Bill Martin doesn't think we're fundamentally flawed.
Cfaller-
Couldn't agree more. Thank you!!
We have the "power of the purse." Plain and simple. Bill Martin is a fool if he thinks the fans must accept mediocrity. I fully expect Alumni Association membership, donations, ticket sales and apparel sales to drop significantly if a mediocre coach is hired without fan support (especially if cronyism is involved in the choice).
Michigan fans are outrageously passionate about their team. This season was upsetting at best, but none of us think it was because of the players. We don't need a feeling of betrayal on top of that. I fully expect the feces to hit the fan if Ferentz is hired. He's one game over .500 in the last 3 years!!!!
MDan: I agree. From what everybody who is knowledgeable on the situation have told me/us, the key is new S/C.....we are outdated and it is costing us.....the national perception is that Michigan is a place where 5-star recruits go to get slower and physically weaker.....I this statement does not thrill you, but we are Michigan and just about any coach can come in here and play for the league title come the end of November....but for us to really take the next step, we need to get into this century as far as S/C is concerned.....Ferentz, Miles, Kelley, Tedford, whomever, the key to becoming a legit top-5 team every year is new direction vis a vis S/C......and a dose of modern offensive football would help too, which is why i want DeBord out as well.....you would be fine w/ Ferentz if Git and Debord are gone....playing devil's advocate, what if Miles stays, but so too does Git and DeBord....i dont think we're better off in that situation than we were this year.
Who gives a damn about against the spread? I just want wins and a clean program. ATS just implies that you win by enough or don't lose by too much. If you have lesser talent, the spread won't be very great. If our spreads are 35 points and we call of the dogs at 28, so be it. I want to still be in the hunt for MNCs after Sept 22nd (since 1997, only 2006 clears that hurdle), I want talented kids to dream of playing for us because we have a coach that has a fire to win, I want to get back to beating OSU like we beat MSU (may be unrealistic with Tressel, but .500 is not unrealistic). Is Miles the clear #1 choice? No. Is KF the anti-christ we have been spewing (myself included)? No. But the real problems with the program have been the lack of self reflection, the loyalty to a fault, the unwillingness to change. This cronyism is the problem, and from my perspective, it appears tht KF is the last inside hand Carr may get to deal. That i why I'm sick to my stomach.
Josh-
I knew many a Michigan fan that said they were going to pull their support and donations if Lloyd continued to be our coach a few years ago...it never happened. Not to be Saban-esq but it's like the terrorists, ya we can stop a cell but hundreds of others will come out of the woodwork. Just like Michigan fans, we can all give up our season tickets and donations but at the end of the day there will be 100,000 others waiting to take our tickets.
Why does everyone keep saying KF is a Lloyd clone?
Did the NFL keep knocking on Lloyd's door too? Doesn't anybody think that those NFL types might know something about KF that they don't?
- BS
Pete said:
I haven't extensively researched what has gone on the last three seasons at Iowa, but...
Oh, Pete, you should have quit while you were ahead. If we're going to remain ignorant of the last three seasons:
- we would be desperately trying to woo multiple Super Bowl champion Charlie Weis;
- we would be desperately trying to convince Lloyd Carr to stay, since he would still have a winning record against OSU;
- and the QB spread option offense that burned us in the Rose Bowl would seem like a one-time thing that was due more to Vince Young than a fundamental weakness in our defense.
Oh, how things have changed in three years, and that's the point. The last three seasons matter. It's the best indication of what kind of momentum a coach has. Touting Ferentz while ignoring his last three years is stupid to the extreme. Please stop.
Its rumored that Nebraska will name a coach tomorrow, seems that search firm has been busy for a while now.
Grobe, Kelly, Gill and Pellini are the mentioned names.
Has anyone had the chance to peruse flight logs from KIOW to KARB or KDTW yet? I glanced briefly, but nothing jumped out at me in terms of a possible flight in for an interview.
It will probably be Pellini. Read around that he met with officials in Atlanta regarding the Nebraska deal.
@imafreak
- you mention that Ferentz intentionally took a safety to improve field postion. Belicheck did the same thing a few years ago in a regular season game against the Broncos. The Pats ended up winning the game because of that maneuver.
When gambles like that work the coach is "a genius", when they fail the coach is "a moron."
Note - I'm not advocating Ferentz for coach or comparing him to Belicheck - just saying that I've seen the intentional safety work.
Get Tedford!
Pete, you're way, way off on many things. First, Henne . . . he committed to PSU (this is a fact; his HS coach confirms it) but Lloyd Carr continued recruiting him anyway and Henne changed his commitment to UM. Many months later, PSU got Morelli to change his commitment from Pitt to PSU.
Now Eugene. He committed to Michigan, but then decommitted and went to LSU, citing family considerations (he has a young son). People close to our program claim that Eugene was told that Carr would be retiring soon (which was correct!), which caused him to switch. People with agendas are trying to claim that Miles committed some huge violation. He didn't do anything out of the norm.
Here's the thing people don't know: the Michigan staff has long had a reputation for being VERY nasty in recruiting. Notre Dame people say that we constantly bash their campus environment and tell kids that non-Catholics (and non-whites in general) are unwelcome there. PSU people have long said that our staff tells recruits that Paterno is on the verge of retirement. For Carr to be bitching and moaning when other schools do *the same thing he does* is utter hypocrisy.
@js
Please no tedford talk, everyone is pissed at the Ferentz rumors, but how is Teford any better than Ferentz?
I trust the powers that be at UM aren't just throwing a dart at a dartboard to determine the next coach. No matter who the next coach is, there will be those that feel a better coach is still out there, and they should have hired him instead. I don't mind if this process takes a while, I can be patient.
Let me add that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with badmouthing other schools. It's just part of the business. But it's unreal for Carr to pretend that he's above it all when there is plenty of evidence that we're as nasty as anyone else.
hat, I disagree that the Michigan staff is nasty. In my recruiting research, Michigan's staff has a choir boy reputation. Corwin Brown is an n of 1 and a shady one at that, and there are dozens of quotes about how Michigan recruits with class (one cited here: http://www.logictimes.com/Blue/W...y-Les-
Miles.htm ).
MFan in Cbus,
I agree. Let's not rush to judgement and hire someone because we are in a hurry. Is it possible the by not having a coach hired right away we lose a recruit or two. Of course it is a possiblity. But this is a 10-15 year hire. If losing two recruits now gives us a better hire. I'll make that trade all day.
Be Serious said:
Did the NFL keep knocking on Lloyd's door too? Doesn't anybody think that those NFL types might know something about KF that [we] don't?
Quite simply: NO.
NFL guys are just as likely as (if not more so than) a college administrator to blow a coaching search. They have no special knowledge that gives them an edge against college guys, and they don't have to consider recruiting ability when evaluating a coach. A lot of NFL guys came calling for Weis a few years ago too, which was the impetus behind Notre Dame's albatross-like 10 year deal with him.
Soooooo- NO. NFLers talking to Ferentz (or any other coach) doesn't automatically impress me.
Jason, we do have time and I don't think a single recruit does ANYthing before finding out who the new coach is. He'll look around, take visits, but he's gonna at least see who we hire. If we take our time and hire smart, we can keep the class together.
I live in Columbus and was just listening to The Big Show with Kirk Herbstreit and Bruce Hooley. Bruce mentioned (I am paraphrasing here) that MGoBlog.com was reporting Kirk Ferentz was offered the Michigan job, and Herbstreit said he talked to Kirk and all he can say is "what is being reported isn't factual" or something like that.
Take it for what it is worth.
Buckeyes, that is great news! I think that Herbie would not say that if he hadn't spoken to KF.
Again, he's a candidate and a serious one. What is great about all this, is that Martin has seen firsthand what kind of shitstorm is going to hit if he hires KF. Those who don't think that matters are fooling themselves.
Just to clarify, Herbstreit was very careful to not give up too much info or betray any confidences. He basically made a one sentence comment. Saying what is being reported is "not factual" could mean a million things. I took it to mean that Ferentz hadn't been offered the job, but what do I know. Others listeing could have interpreted Bruce & Kirk's conversation differently.
I guess we will see.....
Well say what you want about Iowa against Texas last year but I also remember a damn good Hawkeye squad with Eric Steinbach, Robert Gallery, Bruce Nelson, Fred Russell, Brad Banks, Dallas Clark, Bob Sanders and Nate Kaeding too boot that was smacked by USC in the Orange Bowl.
And if I am correct, Ferentz's son was a senior this year...
Based on the "premature" and the "not factual" comments, it sounds like Ferentz has NOT been offered the job yet, but that he will be offered the job in the future.
(sigh) I'm surprised and disappointed that Michigan, the bastion of doing things the "right way," would seem so hellbent on getting a .500 guy before they've even interviewed anybody. (And no, I don't believe they've interviewed anybody yet, because somebody would have found out and leaked it).
KF son does not appear to be on the team roster this year.
http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sp...footbl-
mtt.html
@Jason: I care about covering the spread....it actually is a very good indicator on how good you really are.....the experts in the desert know their shit......the last two years that UM was really any good, 2003 and 2006, UM was 17-7 ATS combined.....thats pretty good.....Spurrier at Fla was a killer vs the spot as was Bowden in FSU's hey day.....of course, it shouldn't be the sole judge in determining if a team is any good or not......but if you're not paying attention to how well a team is doing against the spread, then i humbly submit you're not learning the whole story......as a gambler, its pretty weak that my favorite team is generally sub par against the number.....i would love to see UM go on an ATS run like OSU, which is 25-11 the last three seasons or even Iowa which was 35-21 ATS through the start of the 2006 season under Ferentz, including 28-8 at home during that timeframe.
Considering how many times we sit on edge at our seats in the Big House wondering why we are in a tight game against clearly lesser foes, I would love to have a 5-6 year stretch where we are automatic vs the spot like that at home.
We already win at Michigan, but we dont win enough and we dont cover nearly enough.....I'm just saying!
Apologies if someone posted this before, but here's Angelique Chengelis:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.../711260444/
1361
Not much new, but:
"Meanwhile, sources close to the Michigan athletic department said Martin and his search committee are expected to formally meet Tuesday. Offensive coordinator Mike DeBord is to interview with Martin Tuesday, according to sources, while defensive coordinator Ron English interviewed Monday."
ARRRRRGH...my brain is tired. Too much information!
Gentlemen:
I believe the denials from the Freep, Demoines paper and Mlive are old. The only quote attributed to today, is that the AD says the only conversation he has had with Ferentz is regarding Iowa. That is not a denial. The rest comes from a week earlier. That actually fits very well with Herbstreit's quote from above -- the Iowa AD and Ferentz have been contacted.
00goblue00,
Lloyd's Big 10 record is 81-23. Ferentz's is 38-34. Ferentz is one game above .500 in the last 3 years. He was 6-6 this year, didn't play Ohio State or Michigan, and had losses to Iowa State and Western Michigan. And besides, this smells of cronyism. Be happy with it if you will, but realize that bad choices will have consequences.
It just seems completely unreasonable to think that a mediocre coach would do well at Michigan just because it's Michigan. Why not hire a great coach with a proven record of winning?! It just doesn't make sense to me.
I have to say that this Michigan coaching search will be the most exciting thing (if Ferentz gets the job) to happy to college football since, well, ND fell over themselves to offer to Urban or Auburn flew Petrino to the Plains a few years ago.
Although I'm an SEC guy (and a Dawg fan), reading a coherent blog like yours makes me hope for the best for fans like you. Good luck in the search, and I'm thrilled it's not something UGA is doing right now.
Keep up the good work.
But this in the News is from today:
"Our athletic director has not been contacted," Phil Haddy, Iowa sports information director, said Monday. "I would find it unconscionable that an athletic director from another Big Ten school would be able to visit with a head coach without talking to the AD."
jamie mac,
Let me restate my point about ATS. I only care if we win. I am not arguing the ability to the guys in Vegas to get the spread right. Rather, my suspicion is that Iowa is generally favored by less points than we are due to our talent advantage. This was the crux of my prior post.
If we are large favorites, but win and fail to cover, I don't care, I'm still happy.
Losing by less than people expect only makes me ill.
"Ferentz doesn't have depth, and doesn't have the talented players out at Iowa"
Don't kid yourself. Iowa has history.
Here is something I would like to add to the "ferentz's shortcomings" list
-he had 3 great years from 2002-2004 and finished 8th in the AP in each of those seasons (even winning 2 bowl games)
-but since then he has gone 19-18 and only had 1 guy drafted to the NFL (1st round 17th pick)
What the hell was he doing those years? Didn't he get any good recruits and add some quality depth during those years? Iowa isn't that hard to recruit to. If a program backslides, it really isn't anyone's fault but the coach.... Unattractive schools in god forsaken places that have grown Mizzou. Boise State. WVU. Rutgers.
Look at Wisconsin. Probably could be argued approximately equivalent history/etc as Iowa at one point in history (well, cuter chicks probably) Neither Iowa or Wisc play UM and or OSU every year either. But since Alvarez put things together a while back, the have had consistent success.
55-22 in the last 5 years alone. Now the acknowledged number 3 in the conference by most.
So now Wisc > Iowa - why? because the coaches were able to leverage their success year after year and didn't regress. That means bringing in recruits.
And you can't tell me THAT many more recruits have hard ons to play at wisky than iowa because of location.
Coaches Success Culture bring players in and build programs. All attributable to the HC.
Seems like a 'cushioning the blow' if the shit hits the fan, which, in many ways, is right and proper.
I will say that the brevity of your initial post left a lot of room for smaller minds to draw their own conclusions no matter how stupid they are.
^ Jason, I hear you, but if you take a big picture view and a relatively wide sample size, I doubt you'd find that Michigan is overwhelming favorites in every game such that it's "ok" to continually fail to cover the spread. Having no desire to do this, I'm just suggesting that the majority of games Michigan plays in they are favored by around 6-10 points or so. Consistently not covering means consistently playing within one score of an underdog team-- I'm with you-- I'm fine with winning all those games by 1 point, but when you continually play down to an opponent, I think we all know that you're taking a GREAT risk that you won't just 'out execute' said underdog in the 4th quarter.
Josh-
trust me. I don't want Ferentz anymore than you do. I think it would be a horrible move for the school. I also agree that it is ridiculous to that that a mediocre coach can do better because it's Michigan. To me that doesn't make a difference, I don't think being at Michigan will change the way Ferentz coaches etc.
I was just stating that as nice as it would be for the UofM faithful to boycott the decision if it was in fact the decision realistically it won't happen and Bill Martin knows that.
Sorry. that posted anonymous.....
Josh-
trust me. I don't want Ferentz anymore than you do. I think it would be a horrible move for the school. I also agree that it is ridiculous to that that a mediocre coach can do better because it's Michigan. To me that doesn't make a difference, I don't think being at Michigan will change the way Ferentz coaches etc.
I was just stating that as nice as it would be for the UofM faithful to boycott the decision if it was in fact the decision realistically it won't happen and Bill Martin knows that.
and to clarify, the people I knew wanted to boycott Carr for his losses to OSU and the Bowl Games, not his overall Big 10 record in particular.
While I would not go so far as to call Les Miles a crook, I recall way back that he was slapped by the Big Ten while on the Michigan staff (w/Bo, I think), and was not permitted to go off campus for a year. I've been trying to find some confirmation of this on the Web, but unsuccessful so far. I don't know about any purported improprieties at OSU. However, lest we forget, Miles does coach in the SEC (Surely Everyone Cheats). No matter how much Les loves Michigan, I'd be surprised if he's high on Martin's list, for those reasons alone.
@jamie mac: I don't think the spread is what Vegas expects the final margin to be - it's what dividing line will split the incoming bets in half. So it's at least as much about public perception of the two teams as it is about anything else.
At least, that's the argument I used on shucker fans when they pointed to a "Neb -7 Mich" line for a hypothetical 1997 National Championship game.
ThWard,
I understand your point. I would love to see us win every game by 17 - 28 points. (I actually don't want us to be viewed as a program that runs up the score on teams -- other than Houston, circa 1991 -- so not covering a 30 point spread doesn't bother me.)
But if we are on average only 6-10 point favorites, Iowa must be an average 3-4 point favorite, or worse. (Since I'm not a gambler, I can't pull this data from memory.) It seems that comparing Iowa ATS and Michigan ATS is not a fair comparision.
espn college football live reports ferentz on the very short list for michigan. Mentioning he now has a real possibily of taking the job. No other candidates mentioned. Reports also coming in that I will claim to no longer to care about Michigan fooball until september when I suck it up and watch every single game anyway.
I hope when Da-Bored walks in Martin's office for the interview, Trump is waiting in the office and says "You're fired."
Jason,
I agree with you....i do just want Michigan to win....covering is gravy unless i have $$ on them....but I also agree with ThWard....I mean, really, just give my poor ticker one season where we just blow away the spread in our home games.....we are 7-12-2 ATS at home the last 3 years, and The Horrow is not in the record as there was no official line..actually, we had a winning ATS mark this year at home going 4-3...breaking that down, as a favorite, we're 6-10-2 and the average spread was approx 17.5 points....we're not awful, but those too close for comfort games last season vs Vandy, NW, and Ball St nearly gave me a stroke and almost derailed what was a hallmark season..those all should have been blowouts....and, they foreshadowed what happened on opening day this season....we're not even favored to beat OSU at home anymore, we dont cover getting points in those spots either and that is a sign that we have fallen on hard times.
hahah Spartan tailgate has a thread going that Lloyd Carr doesn't like Les Miles because apparently Miles slept with Lloyds wife when he was an assistant...forget Jai Eugene..this must be why we aren't seriously considering Les lol. Gotta love the internet.
LOL @ JHS.
Trump! Trump! Trump!
Off topic - but does anyone know if Lloyd has any kids?
He does. Miles slept with his kids too.
Chris of Dangerous Logic,
To a point, you are right. Vegas sets a line and tries to get even $$$ on both sides....but there is also a lot of predicting going on as well.
The argument about Nebraska, just use basic football knowledge......we would not have needed those 7 points.....we had a killer D-line and LB corps, far away the best Nebraska would have seen.....Renes controls the middle, Steele the outside, our LBs all over their piddly I-backs......they would have been in more 3rd & eights than they could handle....so in those 3rd and long, what exactly would Scott Frost do? Have success against our secondary? Um, I think not!! Weathers, Ray, some guy named Woodson....please.....he'd be sacked a ton and thrown at least 3 picks.....now our O vs their D.....we would have been the most physical team they played all year....PSU had a great D and we marched up and down on them....we do the samee against Nebraska....not to mention the short fields that all those turnovers would have created....Vegas may have made us +7, but all the UM $$$$ coming in for over month and that line would be way way down by kick off....probably +3 by kick off....its also worth noting that since 1997, we've been in the BCS era and in the title games the underdog is 7-2 straight up, so what does the Vegas line have anything to do with who would win the hypothetical UM-Meb game, anyway.....one of the underdogs to lose to the number and the game was Nebraska vs Miami.....yeah, I've dealt w/ Neb fans and that -7 argument, but it has no legs in my opinion.
I laugh at them trying to convert third and longs on us all day.....thats just too funny!!!
CODL,
Not to mention this apples to apples comparison:
UM 27 CU 3
Neb 27 CU 24
Missou ran up and down the field on Neb in 1997.....same basic Missou squad did squat against OSU and our D was better than the Bucks that year, obviously.....we flat out rout the Cornholes, and I have no doubt about it.
CODL-- you're somewhat right re: public perception and a need to even money out affecting lines... but not to the degree you suggest. Lines don't move as dramatically as some think, and the original lines that are set have a helluva lot more influence on "public perception" and what people bet on, than does public perception have on the lines themselves.
This whole KF issue today has me feeling like I did when I was sitting in the stands in Evanston, watching NU kick the game winning field goal against us twice in 1996.
You know its going to happen.
You pray to God it doesn't happen.
It happens and you still feel sick about it because it never should have come to that.
Funny thing. the website: www.firekirkferentz.com is owned by the Iowa Athletic department and links to http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com
Not a rousing endorsement when the athletic department needs to stockpile less than flattering domain names to protect its coach.
Thanks for sending us Bump Elliott in '68.
You'll thank us in three years.
The cognitive dissonance here is off the charts.
When Herbstreit says only that "internet reports are not factual" after speaking with Ferentz, do you really think Ferentz said, "I am not, and will not be, a candidate for the UM job"? That's a nondenial denial.
Nondenial denials always mean one thing: I will not confirm, but if I deny I am a lier.
Herbstreit makes a living providing information.
Who beat sweatervest this year?
Who beat Zook?
duhhh, sorry.
"liar"
what about www.firecaptainkirk.com? Can we get a hold on that and get it started before this is anounced as I'm sure we love mediocrity to hs this ass clown... Or maybe www.firekentzbeforeheishiredsoidontkillmyself.com (fire k-fentz before he is hired so I don't kill myself)... just kidding...kind of... We need to be in front of this in the 24 hour news cycle...
The more I hear about Chris Peterson the more I like him. I'm still all aboard the Les Miles roller coaster of crazy though. I'd take a huge risk (Miles) over certain continued mediocrity (Ferentz) anyday.
Daniel L-
I am on that roller coaster with you. I will feel really bad for him if he doesn't get this. He can say he loves LSU all he wants, the bottom line is if Michigan called he would come. I just hope we offer it to him...better to take a risk and say we tried than continue to stick with the same old same old.
It would make me puke if four years from now, Notre Dame makes it to the BCS championship game with Brian Kelly as its coach, and we are stuck in the Alamo Bowl playing Kansas State...
Where is the ghost of Don Canham? Can he take over Bill Martin for a month?
Excuse me but how on EARTH can Miles suddenly be "well down the list?" Have I slipped into a parallel universe of bizzaro people? Are you for real?
Miles is THE top candidate for this job for any number of reasons--he always has been. In fact, he's such THE top candidate that his agent purchased the trademark "THE" from THE Ohio State College...henceforth, Ohio State College can no longer call themselves THE Ohio State College.
Consequently, to make up for the absence of THE in front of their name, Ohio State has added another word to their title. They are now Ohio State COMMUNITY College. GO SCHMUCKEYES!
Bill Martin wanted a "Lloyd Clone" so it only makes sense he's going after Kirk. I don't see Miles being the next head coach here. This is UM - there is no thinking outside the box when it comes to football. M football is about doing whats tried, tested, and true - not doing something new and crazy.
Miles calls Martin THE douchebag and Ferentz THE ass clown
and that is what pisses me and many others off. Tired of settling for mediocrity. We need to think outside of the box before this program goes into a shit spiral.
allmanski-
LMAO
Guys,
I apologize if you think I'm absolutely off base in thinking Ferentz is the best man for the job. You keep bashing Ferentz without offering a viable alternative. If you submit Les Miles, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree because I'm not buying that because of his roots, Les Miles is the best guy for Michigan. There's no questioning that he's a riverboat gambler. And if that's what you're looking for for a program that has been built with a "steady as she goes" approach, it's ludicrous to me to risk all that because you might be enamored with a few converted 4th downs and dramatic late game moments.
Please, tell me what coach you're going to get. Please. Fine, don't buy what I'm selling with Ferentz. That's fine. But tell me who you're going to get that's better.
What about using something like ipetitions.com (or some other type of free on-line petition system)? If we all sent it to our friends I bet we could amass a large group in a short amount of time. I'm not saying that it would have a major impact but it would send a message to Martin loud and clear. Maybe we could even get some media attention.
How many of us will pay for a luxury box to see us lose to Western Michigan?
Say no to Ferentz!
Pete:
Ferentz is a good, solid coach. However, Michigan had a good, solid coach for 13 years and the program has stagnated. We need someone who is more than a caretaker to guide us through the next 5 to 10 years.
I would suggest Brian Kelly as that candidate...
Sign the new Please do not hire Ferentz petition... Like it will do any good.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nokf/
please let me know if its working...
"And if that's what you're looking for for a program that has been built with a "steady as she goes" approach"
This fucking approach was brought in by LLoyd Carr, Bo was never a pussy he did what had to be done, plus he was an exuberant personality!! So this face of the program is recent and does not represent what it used to be.
@Ben
UM ain't losing to WMU, even if Ferentz is the coach.
FWIW - ESPNU guys say Les Miles is not the next head coach, they think Kelly is the leading candidate.
Our beloved institution is (unfortunately) characterized by several undeniable truths:
1. We love big, slow farmboy QB's who can launch a 70 yarder from their knees but wh can't outrun a sun dial (save Harbuagh who lost his Michigan Man-ness in my book)
2. We're satisfied with beating the jayvee teams of the big 10
3. Losing the final 2 games of the season is as traditional as tapping the banner as the team takes the field.
4. We're afraid of speed because it's too fast...let the southern schools have that.
5. We love the predictability of being predictable.
6. Shaking keys on 3rd down creates a deafening nothingness that only we seem to understand...and it really impresses the hell out of 5-star recruits who visit our games (much more than screaming our collective balls off would)
7. A dangerous swashbuckler like Miles is much too much of a gamble to take--he might steer us down a path of unpredictable things...like winning the last 2 games of the season.
8. If we hire Ferentz, we become the IBM of college football--oh wait, we already are.
Folks, I wish I had better things to share but I fear that there may be something to these Ferentz rumors--wake me up in 5 years when he decides to "retire" too.
Pete,
KF is no long an elite coach. His record the last three years (with players he had the privledge to recruit) is terrible. He can't beat ISU regularly. Carr received endless critcism about not beating OSU, but OSU is an elite program. ISU sucks.
The list I have would include:
1. Les Miles
1a. Brian Kelly
3. Bob Stoops (unlikely but possible)
3a. Urban Meyer (unlikely but possible)
5. Rich Rodriguez (West Virginia)
6. Greg Schiano (Rutgers)
7. Nick Saban (he may be the devil, but he rebuilt LSU)
8. Chris Petersen (Boise State)
9. Paul Johnson
10. Jim Harbaugh
After the direction KF has taken Iowa the last three years, I would not have him in the top 10. I would speak with Pete Carroll and Jim Tressel (neither of which are leaving their schools for UofM) before calling KF.
Anyone else getting errors on the page and having trouble getting some pictures to show? Might be my lousy browser again. Thanks!
Jason-
As much as I would love for the next head coach to be Les Miles, I have a sinking feeling that it is not going to be him. I dunno there is something in my gut telling me not to get my hopes up.
allmanski,
the ipetition seems to work -- on a technical level -- I doubt it will work on the level we desire.
Chitownblue,
I too walked that campus for 4 years, and don't recall a single player with "Chevy Suburbans with sound systems you could hear from a mile away.", let alone, players from broke homes on the East side of Detroit driving the said vehicles. Gutierrez had a suburban, but it was over a decade old, and by no means in great shape. Alan Branch had an explorer. A purple one from the early nineties (the box-shaped kind). Nothing special about the sound in it, but he play it full blast with the base jacked up.
In fact, I worked for the team as a student and walked through the team parking lot every day. I'd say most of the players drove pieces of junk. The few that did have nice cars, everyone knew their parents had money. The kids that came from "broke-ass homes" either drove junkers or didn't have cars at all.
Maybe we were at UofM at different times, because I'm a little confused as to where this rash of apparent improper benefits (as you imply) came from.
Thanks for the support... i'm not even endorsing a particular candidate here... But at least we'll be able to let them know our dissatisfaction as if they give a shit. We all know Bill Martin is currently gargling Ferentz balls...
join the masses in revolution by signing the petition below...
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nokf/
and by masses I mean all three of us...
Who in the world thinks Nick Saban would even get a sniff of this job? That is crazy. More likely to be given to Hitler or Stalin. Come on. Same goes for those who have somehow suggested Tressel. Not in a million years would he be offered, and not in a million years would he accept. To say otherwise is delusional.
- BS
00goblue00,
In complete horror, I agree with you. Until today, I was confident that it was going to be Miles, or possibly Kelly. Now Brian has torpedoed my hopes for this season being acceptable as it would be the nadir that delivered us a dose of reality and allowed us to benefit in the future.
Now I just think that this season sucked and I better get used to that feeling.
Also, when we pay the big bucks for KF, I'm sure that I'll have to fork over more money to keep my season tickets.
In the three years since the PSL came to life, we have had two regular seasons with 4 losses. If Martin wants to sell all of those luxury boxes in a regional economy that is the worst in the nation, he better make sure the next coaches elevates the program, not just allows it to settle to mediocre slowly...
Pete,
Alternatives to Ferentz? Maybe this will put things in perspective:
Bill Callahan has a 27-22 record with Nebraska. That's a .551 winning percentage.
Kirk Ferentz has a 61-49 record with Iowa. That's a .554 winning percentage.
Charlie Weis has a 22-15 record at ND. That's a .594 winning percentage, and unlike Ferentz he has to play Michigan and USC every year.
In other words, alternatives to Ferentz are really easy to name insofar as the mediocrity pit is very deep. Sure, winning percentage is just one stat to consider. However, it is somewhat significant.
@Be Serious
Agreed - the only way Saban sniffs the UM job is if he somehow becomes the last head coach on earth. That snake oil salesmen is right at home in the SEC.
My list was of quality coaches that should at least be considered, and should be considered if the true basis of the hire is the best coach available. I'm no fan of Saban, but he is a fine coach. Would I trust him with my checkbook. No. He seems to be motivated by $$$. Not what I'm looking for, but I'm not aware of him running a dirty program and he can coach. the fact that he won 9 or 10 games one year in EAST LANSING speaks to the fact he can coach.
Are we going to hire Tressel? Of course not, but he is an ELITE coach (as much as it pains me to say it). Ferentz is no longer an elite coach. His program peaked and is now falling. The reasons for that are unclear; maybe he lost the fire, maybe he became loyal to a fault and has coaches who can't get the job done, maybe he can't recruit against Zook and Wies... I don't know. Be he is no long a coach worthy of the opportunity to lead Michigan.
The ten guys I listed are all more suitable (with the possible exception of Harbaugh, but he get the Michigan ties benefit) than KF.
Jason-
I don't necessarily believe Brian on this especially since his second post cited two message boards, one of which was the one that admitted to starting the rumor. I just have this feeling that Martin is going to screw it up. To say he wants a clone of Lloyd scares me, while I think in some way he could be saying it to blow smoke up Lloyds ass, what are you going to say "Lloyd sucked his coaching style was horrible blah blah blah" but at the same time it doesn't really surprise me that Martin does want a Lloyd clone.
I have said it several times and I will say it again...running the program the way we run it now has really gotten us nowhere the past few years. Several losses to OSU and bowl games are unacceptable. The rest of the wins during the season don't really matter if we can't win the two big ones at the end. It is better for us to take risk than continue to go on the way we are now. I know a lot of people don't think Miles would be great but I think he would be the change that we need.
00goblue00,
I agreed. Someone needs to bring a spark to this program. Frankly, we are getting by on the fact that the Michigan "brand" is able to land a fair number of recruits. This brand will diminish if it isn't re-established. Once that happens, it will be very difficult to get back to where we believe we belong.
If we don't get the right guy, its not out of the question that we slip into the form of mid-1990s Oklahoma. A once great program searching for its identity and a pulse.
allmanski - Done! Nice effort. And all the e-mails and these tantrums do add up and do mean something. Keep it up. Nothing is decided. If a Kelly blows them away in an interview and it comes down to a neck and neck race, the fact that the ENTIRE FRIGGIN' MICHIGAN WORLD (except Pete) HATE THE FERENTZ HIRE MORE THAN EXTREME TESTICLE PAIN will factor in.
After reading all of this...I can't hear myself think over the sound of me S#!$ing myself! If this is KF stuff is true...I will burn everything U of M that I own.
Jason-
and that spark needs to happen fast. And by fast I don't mean Wednesday announcing that Kirk Ferentz is the new head coach lol. Lloyd is worried about hurting recruiting. Yes, please come to Michigan where your future coach is a guy who went 6-6 and lost to Western, but Western isn't as bad as Appalachian State so that is how we can justify Ferentz. I can see it now...yuck.
HAHA....Lloyd truly wants to leave his legacy behind. He's saying....I am retiring, but I want to ensure the fanbase of 9-3 for years to come. So I present to you, Lloyd cloned, Kirk Ferentz.
This is bullshit if they hire Ferentz. But then again Michigan would replace somebody who ccouldn't be Tressel with somebody who couldn't beat Tressel. If Martin Flubbs on this hiring....which he will if Ferentz is the guy, then he should lose his job.
i think we all need to get off the ledge -- at least for now. so long as nothing is confirmed, the plane has not crashed into the mountain yet (notwithstanding Brian's previous prognostication abilities).
until new shit comes to light, i will continue to believe that the next coach will be les miles or brian kelly. and that the world is flat and global warming is a hoax.
To stop Lloyd's dead hand reaching from the grave and prevent the Horror redux, sign the No Kirk Firentz petition:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nokf/
Brian...I have always had alot of respect for your blog and the information that you provide (because its always be prime grade accurate.) But man, Im hoping you are sooooo wrong on this one.
This is like the ASU game all over again except in super slow motion.
I'm not on the Ferentz bandwagon. I'd rather see Miles or Gruden. But just because he went 6-6 this year doesn't mean he can't coach. I hear a lot of posters desirous of Pete Carroll. Well, what was Pete's record before he went to USC? 8-8. The year before? 9-7. The year before that 10-6.
Can someone give a reasonable breakdown of Ferentz as a candidate. I hadn't thought of him so I never really looked. I am not looking for cliff jumping, just someone who can clarify the pros and cons. I personally don't get what they are looking at, and there must be something there to even get a sniff.
Anywhere to get this type of knowledge, or is this more of a proclamation of setting themselves on fire crowd. What message boards are out there that discuss these things in detail? I would love to know more about what's going on.
I talked to 2 people at the GVSU athletic department and a local writer and they said nobody, let alone Carr (as claimed) has contacted them.
Doesn't mean it isn't true but Michigan isn't the only one with vested interest in this process. A coach like Kelly can use any rumor to help with a contract extension. Something KF has done for some time in Iowa City. Michigan isn't an insecure program, they aren't in the shadows and they aren't dicking around with middle men.
KF isn't a bad coach, he had 3 great seasons in a row but seems to have had trouble reloading. They have had a ton of injuries and other problems this year and their depth of talent leaves them little margin for error. His name has been in the mix for several head coaching jobs in the NFL.
I'm not sure why everyone is in such a panic. I have never seen KF make the same kind of bone headed clock and play call Miles has this season but for some reason everyone thinks he's a great coach. My honest guess is that it's more likely that KF would have a better record than Miles if they had to coach the others team.
This was great. Actually I heard it was Santa's sleigh picking up Hawkeye dolls to deliver to all the bad little boys and girls in place of coal.
You are an idiot. This is some of the most irresponsible journalism I have ever seen. I understand this is a message board and rumors are a part of the whole process but the way you present them is hardly anything that resembles professionalism. Hail to the Victors...You are a clown.
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