Re: The traffic stop.
First, let me say this- I am a Buckeye, yet I am appalled at the stop. My commentary below is not my opinion as to what should have happened (IMO, nothing or just a ticket for the offenses). That said...
If the cop wants to pull them over for an offense (driving over the Speed Limit, not wearing a seat belt), he can.
At that point, the cop can search the car with probable cause (i.e., something other than DWB). Or the cop can arrest everyone (yes, even for a traffic violation) and conduct a search.
So basically, traffic violation + DWB = no legal recourse for absurd search and seizure.
Is it just me, or is the crowd noise much higher for the touchdowns in the Brady video than they are now? Honestly, that is the biggest thing that jumped out at me.
Note to self: don't go to Monroe County
Brady.. Look at the 4th TD. ( 17-27 PSU ).. Isn't that like the *Definition* of pocket presence? Isn't it a proof as to why Tom Brady's competence gave a fat man 30 million deal ?
Unfortunately, if Henne had half of that he'll be much better.
US23 is a known drug trafficking route? Really? Are they confusing drugs with duck calls?
I think I'm the only person that liked the quasi-zone read play. This is assuming the intent of the play was to have Henne perform the read and then either hand the ball to Minor or roll right for a pass. It's like the Waggle v2.0 - New & Improved with More TFL Goodness!
This got to me thinking about what would happen if Antonio Bass was available to run such plays. Sigh...
Regarding Weis, is there any precedent for a college coach going 1-7 in his third season at a school and then being considered successful? I'm way too lazy to look it up.
So pumped for tonight and tomorrow guys. Here's hoping that BU can step up and get a split this weekend (or maybe even a single point), and I'm really hoping Manningham plays tomorrow.
I gotta say, it is kind of heartbreaking that I may get to a Michigan game and not see Hart or Henne. Probably not the best performance to pick, but it still works.
Also, any advice as to how soon we should get back to AA tomorrow? Not exactly sure how early one has to be there to avoid getting caught in a ton of traffic and stuff.
@ Paul - i think the issue is that the car "could have" been going over the speed limit (no radar), and i find it hard to believe that the cop could actually see a passenger w/o a seatbelt in a moving car. no reason to pull em over = no reason to search em.
Boston Nick, Its usually OK to get to AA up until about 3 hours before gametime, after that it gets dicey.
without getting too much into the current state of 4th amendment jurisprudence, its my understanding that a driver may be pulled over and stopped for any traffic infraction; and search/seizure/arrest can result for any offense. it happened to a soccer mom in texas, who was driving the kids home from practice when she was stopped, handcuffed and arrested, as the kids looked on, due to unbuckled seat belts. http://www.proliberty.com/observ...er/
20010526.htm
apologies for the digression -- and frankly, the circumstances of the manningham case smell badly of police looking for any pretext they could find to search the caddy.
with that out of the way, here's to hoping that mallett steps it up a notch, michigan runs roughshod over the gophers, and we can enjoy a non-taxing game (unlike EMU and NW)
Brian,
I'm an Irish fan, and I read you regularly because (a) I love college football and I respect Michigan (b) I think, vitriol notwithstanding, you've had many good insights about ND.
I have a question for you, and it's an honest one, not the baiting/rhetorical variety:
If Michigan we were to apply ND's ratio of upper-class/lower-class starters to Michigan, then play the Wolves against ND's schedule so far this year, how would the Wolves have fared?
I think better than 1-7, but I'm pretty sure they'd have a losing record.
EEKs- that was not even close to the definition of pocket presence lol. I think Tom has it, but that play didn't show it...there was nobody after him except for one PSU player who absolutely whiffed and was blocked out by one of our dudes. Mobility, yes...pocket presence on that play, eh not really.
Thanks for all the various help you guys have given me leading up to this. If you see a guy at the football game tomorrow with a BU alternate home jersey and a Michigan hat, that'll be me. I'll be wearing the same jersey at both hockey games, sans the Michigan hat (no divided loyalties inside Yost for me).
whether the driver is black, white, or other, that driver may be stopped if the driver was speeding.....if marihuana was seen in the passenger compartment, then the occupants may be arrested....if someone is arrested, a full search of the arrestee's person may be done....do you really think it is fair to assume that the officers were racist, without digging into the facts beyond what was printed in the ann arbor news story???
uh, marijuana was not "seen" in the car. less than a jibbers worth of weed was found in the clothing of two people.
and the speeding was a guess.
the kids may have consented to a search. which is always a bad idea, even if you have nothing to hide. say, "no, officer, you may not search my vehicle. i don't see how a traffic violation necessitates a vehicle search. you, sir, have no probable cause and unless you have a warrant, you are not searching my car."
at which point the officer fabricates probable cause, which is easy, and searches your car anyway. but its the principle of the matter.
IMO, this has all the markings of a DWB and illegal search. hopefully the kids did not consent, and they have a decent lawyer, and the search is held illegal. doubtful, but i hope.
funny that sears was getting burned this spring, well before the oregon game. :-)
@jack simms
"mariHuana"... hilarious. not to mention it wasn't found in the passenger box, it was discovered on their person after a search. you also can't pull someone over because you THINK they were speeding, unless it is blatantly, blatantly obvious (ex. doing 100 on the freeway).
I love Hart, but he will not be a good NFL running back. He'll make a roster and maybe have a decent career as a backup. But he'll never make a Pro Bowl, sign a big contract, probably won't even be counted on as a starter (unless someone ahead of him gets injured, Keyshawned, etc.).
He hasn't outrun anybody since high school. Yeah, he'll get positive yardage, but the people in the NFL are better tacklers and his lack of speed will be even more evident. There are lots of very good college RB's who disappear in the NFL. Unfortunately, Hart will be one of them.*
*I really hope I'm wrong.
Is it just me or are we running out of the shotgun waaaaaay too much in that Brady clip?
Did our staff actually throw paper and scissors back in the day or was it Brady?
Know the rules young black men. No nice cars and definitely never more than 1 black male inside your car. They were definitely profiled but hey what can you do when you live 15 minutes away from one of the worst drug shipping points for the entire North American continent....
once again, i must bow to the legal expertise and overall sophistication of the posters....please check, for a start, mich comp laws 333.7403(2)(d) for the way the criminal law spells marihuana
kgh10, yea.. I was a bit over the top :-D
But that IS pocket presence. He moved the slightest bit a QB has to move to evade the rush. Remember it wasn't a designed run. He could've still thrown if a WR was open.
That run was due to his pocket presence.
That is such a case of DWB.
Also, ND fans really seem to have lost their tenuous connection with reality... Wow.
next---are you sure there is no way that the officers might have determined that the driver was speeding [for example, pacing the car, and checking their own speed]?---next----are you sure no "marihuana" was found in the car other than that that was taken from the young men??
@ magnus - i think that the more important issue that hurts hart's chances of being a good/great nfl rb is his ability to get yards after contact. i'm thinkin no way he bulldozes nfl linebackers the way he does in the big ten. not to say his lack of speed isn't a factor.
@jacksimms - i'm assuming those laws were put on the books right after the Harrison Act, so they're 80-90 years old.
(and yeah... starting an argument about spelling is stupid, i'll admit it. i shouldn't have gotten so cutesy)
if they radioed ahead to have someone else pull them over, the car that spotted them initially was hiding/standing still. and all i know is what was in the article, which said "a small amount of marijuana found on two other people in the car". if there was more, they probably would have said so, and charges would have been filed accordingly.
All I know is what was in the recent article I read. Which said that the weed was found in the clothing of the kids. Also, the article said that the undercover sops thought, or guessed, or some other nebulous word, they were speeding. Maybe the marked car tagged them with their radar, who knows?
Also, the Mardi Gra beads as partial justification for a traffic stop? Yeah, right.
when a group of young black men in a cadillac is pulled over in monroe, its a safe bet they were pulled over for being a group of young black men in a cadillac in monroe. don't be naive
Blue-Gray Sky said:
"However, I would like to see the naysayers point to another coach who, without any relevant previous head coaching or college coaching experience, lead an incredibly high-profile team to levels of comparable achievement."
Um, does Bo count? I guess it depends on if you believe Michigan was of a "high profile" team.
In any case, I think Bob Stoops qualifies under this definition. He didn't have any head coaching experience, Oklahoma was and is very much a high profile program, he won the national title with them in, what, his second year? Plus, he's continued to maintain that excellence over many years now, so...how about Bob Stoops, you friggin' Irish apologists?
jacksimms, you may have a point but, considering the news report was from Fred Girard, it's pretty doubtful that he would gloss over any evidence that incriminated the Michigan football players.
Hal said:
If we were to apply ND's ratio of upper-class/lower-class starters to Michigan, then play the Wolves against ND's schedule so far this year, how would the Wolves have fared?
Well, a few years ago U-M had a true freshman running back, a true freshman running back, and I believe the defense was pretty young too (but I don't know for sure)...that team went to the Rose Bowl. I don't know what the "ratio" of upper class/lower class was, but I think the point is clear: you can win with talented but young players, if you know how to coach them and if they're talented to begin with.
I speculate that Charlie Weis, coming from the NFL, does not know how to manage expectations with his players, and/or does not know how to put them in situations where they can succeed, and/or can't properly evaluate high school talent.
Whatever is going on, something is terribly, terribly wrong with the Irish right now, and I believe Weis is at the root of it.
magnus, I don't think his size and his lack of speed will necessarily guarantee that Hart won't have a good pro career. On the other hand, I do think that his bruising style combined with his small size will get him injured and out of the pros very quickly.
But if Hart can take a page from Warrick Dunn and learn to never take a direct hit from the defense, then he might have a fantabulous NFL career. That's a big if, though.
I love seeing David Terrell score. UM #1 receiver, baby! Has anyone else heard about Darryl Stronum taking the jersey of awesomeness his frosh year?
"However, I would like to see the naysayers point to another coach who, without any relevant previous head coaching or college coaching experience, lead an incredibly high-profile team to levels of comparable achievement."
Lloyd had never been a head coach in college prior to taking over Michigan and has never coached in the pros.
I'd say he's done ok. National championship and whatnot....
Tressell had only been a D1AA coach, won a MNC in year 2. Necessary fluke disclaimers.
Nothing is "terribly, terribly wrong with the Irish" and no "Weiss is not at the root of it". Casual observers of the Irish football program may draw that conclusion but anyone paying very close attention to the last 8 years of Notre Dame football was saying that 2007 would be a disaster regardless of who the head coach was.
The fact remains, recruiting great talent is the key to having a succesful program. When Ty Willingham left ND he had recruited so few offensive lineman that any half way sensible football fan would know a disaster was in the making.
A #3, #7 and now #1 ranked recruiting class by Weiss spells a lot of trouble for Irish opponents in the near future. Take your shots now...they will be short lived.
I call BS. Absolutely no ND predicted a 1-7 start, much less 1-7 with every loss by 2 TDs or more. As Chait noted in his article, the Blue-Gray Sky Blog polled over 2,000 ND fans before the season and less than 2% predicted a losing season. Nice try at revisionism.
BTW, that "#3 class" in 2006 is a tad worse now that four of its members (all of them four-star commitments) have transferred - and insiders say that more transfers are coming at the end of the year. Not much good it does you to land the guys and then chase them off.
Boring 4th Amendment blather: Clearly a case of driving while black, but the standard for this kind of stuff (it's "reasonable suspicion," a lot lower than probable cause) is so, so low. Cops almost never have repercussions for this shit and evidence almost never gets suppressed. Mardi Gras beads + car changes lane without turn signal --> cop embellishes a little in court --> judge okays the search. It happens all the time. The standard is incredibly low.
On ND: There were two key parts to the BGS argument. Brian flags the worst BGS passage -- shorter version, "Has anyone so unqualified and inept ever been so successful as head coach? No. Keep the faith." -- but a huge chunk of it is anchored by justification of Weis as a recruiter. Weis has indeed recruited well, but that doesn't do much when a guy appears to have no idea how to coach fundamentals, much like a pile of hundred-dollar bills is useless if used for kindling. Most senseless is the ongoing need to explain that a 1-7 Notre Dame team is preferable to any season under Willingham. In a way, I admire the support for the program and the coach, but this defense when placed next to reality is collegiate Jonestown.
At first it was fun seeing Notre Dame implode, but it's no fun watching the program turn into Temple. A toothless villain doesn't give as much to root against.
Bo was head coach at Miami University--and before that was an assistant at the preeminent program of the era, tOSU (it hurts to write that), prior to Michigan. Bo obviously doesn't qualify.
Bob Stoops had some pretty relevant coaching experience with the Visor prior to his hire at Oklahoma. He doesn't qualify either.
I'd counter that the best comparison to Weis is none other than Gerry Faust. He won 53% of his games and Weis is at 59%, with a great chance for some more losses to come. Neither had relevant college experience either and no head coaching experience outside of high school.
Hopefully they re-hire Holtz in another couple years like they did after Faust. He's got no grip on sanity left.
Suck it ND!
I correctly predicted that the bulk of the Patriots' success was Belichick and that Weis would ultimately turn out to be a giant bust for ND.
I could make an incredibly inflammatory comment about Willingham's treatment by the Irish, but I will behave for once.
The Manningham case is utterly ridiculous. I can understand why the kid's head wouldn't be on straight for a couple weeks with some yokel cops trying to pin a felony drug charge on him.
Equally ridiculous is the tongue bath Matt Ryan is getting from ESPN. Apparently none of the humanoids in Bristol, CT understand the significance of VT's switch to the prevent defense late in the game.
"Take your shots now...they will be short lived."
That's really all they've got at this point, it must hurt. Hurt bad.
It's almost no fun anymore to take shots, but I did get a chuckle last night when Craig James said BC wasn't used to the speed of VaTech because their last four opponents were Army, UMass, BGU, and Notre Dame.
I think all the support for Weis is due to
* Weis being a ND alum.
* There is no alternative. There's some 20mil left in his contract and who'd pay.
That said there's a stat which sums up ND season so far: Oregon had some 400+ rushing yards against Washington.. 200+ more than ND's rushing yards ALL season.
Offensive genius' offense stinks.
@ Michael
Notre Dame is burning in Hell - which of course is exactly where they belong - along with their snot green uniforms and mystical religious symbolisms which have no basis in fact or historical record.
If things are so great, why are so many players fleeing?
Why did Tom Brady improve so much after Weis left?
Why is ND 1-7 playing with recruiting classes that should be enough to be at least in the top 35?
Why does Charlie Weis continue to flash the super bowl rings that Tom Brady gave him like they are his own?
Why does Charlie continue to lie to recruits, telling everybody they will be starting almost immediately?
Why does Charlie insist that verbal commits not even go on visits
elsewhere but is more than happy to take a visit from Jonas Gray?
Weis is a bad coach, he is arrogant, and he is a liar and a hypocrite. You are getting exactly what you deserve.
@ MVM
yup.
My best friend is an ND alum, and we were comparing notes on Weis and Carr this morning. After I was kvetching a bit about our recent record against OSU and in the bowls, he told me to STFU:
"Would you rather have a pleasant, avuncular man with an impressive winning record over many years as the coach of your team. . .
Or a losing coach who, even after gastric bypass surgery, is very fat, and hikes his stretch pants high above his waist, so they rest just below his big man boobs?"
Thank God Lloyd doesn't have man boobs.
cafaller96,
Thanks for responding to my question. I think the Irish are in a little bit different zone than what you described. They're not just starting young 'uns here and there. Fully half their starters are frosh and sophs. The place where this hurts most is on the offensive line, where they've only got four eligible players in the 5th, 4th and 3rd year classes.
The problems have been compounded by the level of competition they've played so far. Five of their first eight opponents are ranked in the top 20 in team defense, three in the top ten.
My point is that I think any team dealing with these two forces simultaneously is going to have a tough time going better than 3-5 or 4-4, Michigan included. Just my opinion, but there it is.
All that being said, ND is 1-7 because Weis has mismanaged the early part of this season. And it's pretty clear that his aggressiveness/hubris played a large role in this. He genuinely thought (and many of us along with him) that he could scheme us through the youth movement. Well that's come back to bite us hard. He was working on game plans when he should have been teaching guys how to block.
But the thing about him that keeps us believing is that for all the arrogance, he's ready to change when necessary. (This, in my mind, is what separates him from Willingham, by the way. The Willingham stuff has been done to death, but I believe that anyone who says Willingham should have been given more time is gravely mistaken. The man was simply not doing his job, and you need to look no farther than the Irish O-line to see the truth of this.)
This is a nightmare season so far, but I look forward to the time when the ND/Michgan battles are a high stakes game again.
Good luck to you guys the rest of the way. I hope OSU is undefeated when you take 'em down.
I love how Michigan fans can talk about "all these transfers" like they have any clue about what's going on within the program and just how good these kids are.
One by one:
Zach Frazer (QB): Was involved in a 4-headed QB derby in the spring. Declared loser of said derby. Saw writing on the wall.
Demetrius Jones (QB): Winner of said QB derby who failed to effectively run the gimicky offense with which Weis was unfamiliar. Saw Sharpley, Clausen and Dayne Crist (class '08) in front of him. Didn't want to be a receiver.
Konrad Reuland (TE): Found himself 4th on the depth chart (including behind a true freshman) with two more TEs coming in the class of '08.
Matt Carufel (OL): Certainly the curious case in this group, since the OL is atrocious and Carufel could challenge for a starting spot now if healthy. But some people get homesick. Some people have long-distance relationships with girlfriends that aren't going well. The kid was 19 and didn't like his situation.
If you want to pin these transfers on Weis, go right ahead. But the same stuff is happening at every major college program in the country. None of the first 3 kids would have seen meaningful playing time at their respective positions in the near future. Why would you stick around in a situation like that?
@JJ
It's bad. Admit it.
"Notre Dame is burning in Hell - which of course is exactly where they belong - along with their snot green uniforms and mystical religious symbolisms which have no basis in fact or historical record."
I love it - this is the absolute best post to respond with a little anti-Catholic tirade. Michigan fans are too stupid to know irony if it smacked them in their little bigoted faces.
I'm just not sure I understand why its so bad. Those are 3 guys who weren't going to see the field at their respective positions. They were still young enough to want to get a chance somewhere else. People transfer from high-profile schools all the time because of playing time issues. Why is it only bad when it happens in South Bend?
Say what you want about Weis and this season. He's done a historically terrible job, and has made too many mistakes to count. But having kids transfer because they weren't going to see the field doesn't factor into any of that at all.
You're right, it's not so bad. It's good.
@ Gallaher
If you don't get it, that's your problem.
Burn in Hell - although a mystic symbolic fantasy in and of itself - it is real for you.
You invented it. Now you can live in it.
People close to the ND program say these transfers are just the beginning - that there are a LOT of unhappy players in South Bend, and that more will leave at the end of the term. Of course, that's bound to happen when your coach promises starting positions to 40 different players.
MVM:
Son, I like your attitude!
Ah i love the smell of 1-7 ND fans talking smack in the evening.
Hey Irish fans this is a MICHIGAN blog, stick to kelly green or grey blue sky or whatever the hell else blogs you read.
But, don't come into a mich. blog and talk junk when you are 1-7 and we have beaten you 2 years in a row.
Scratch that we have BEATEN YOU DOWN 2 straight years.
Oh but Irish fans take solace in this one fact - at least you can't get humilated in a bowl game this year.
Yes I realize I spelled humiliated wrong... anyway point is bump ND and their fans who suffer from delusions of grandeur.
Bob must have some pretty amazing sources, since he's the only person who's coming up with these rumors about wholesale transfers after the season.
And trust me, I'm not talking smack at all. Just wondering why transfers of players who weren't going to see the field equals the doom of the ND program for the rest of eternity. Other reasons perhaps, but not that one.
JJ, I dunno, maybe it has something to do with the whole Demetrius Jones thing. He basically said he was lied to and that it would have been one thing had Weis been straight up with him to his face. Clearly Jones felt he was one thing and everybody else was told something different. Let's not even get into the whole "we had no idea he was leaving, we're surprised, we expected him to be on the bus to Ann Arbor" thing that was debunked by several different players.
And no, I won't provide sources or links or anything. It was discussed ad nauseum at the time.
(I honestly don't mean to be inflammatory, I'm just too lazy to go looking stuff up)
Maybe the recent ND transfers don't matter to the future of ND football, but then please tell me, who does?
If they stink this bad right now, who will step in and be a stud?
Some of the existing kids are Weis recruits from the past few years....if they're any good, or the coaching is any good, why aren't they producing on the field? ND wouldn't be the first team to start F and So players. You can't blame all of their problems on the offensive line, they just suck all around.
It's great to see Weis getting support even after last years team, which had some talented players...who cares if the players are any good, Weis doesn't know how to manage kids that are 19 and 20 years old.
ND fans can say whatever they want, but all that matters are the results on the field. Keep supporting Weis, he's all yours.
i think it says enough that 3 of those guys were mid season transfers, and the way DJ left was just....sad. so, that's 2 extremely curious in season transfers of guys who were in a position to start games @ ND. that is not normal.
I won't bother discussing any of the other points on a Michigan board...but I certainly don't disagree that this season has raised serious questions about his ability to coach collegiate athletes. He's certainly going to have to change a whole lot of things if he wants to be consistenly successful at this level. He's acknowledged as much in press conferences...I guess we'll see if he can actually do anything about it.
As far as the transfers go...as Dank noted, 1 of the 4 occurred before the Season From Hell even started, so you might as well cross that one off the "questionable" list. As I said earlier, Reuland was the 4th string TE, having been passed by a true freshman, with two more high-profile TE recruits coming in next year. The kid's talented, and he'll probably be a good college player, but it wasn't going to happen at ND.
DJ's transfer was interesting, since so many people around the team talked about what a leader he was trying to be all through spring and fall practice. He was extremely vocal about his love for Weis and ND, and had nothing but warm things to say about both even after he left. But anyone could tell that he wasn't upset about the way things worked out during and after the GT game. He was visibly sulking on the sideline after being pulled. He engaged in some serious shenanigans behind everyone's (including his parents') backs in dealing with other schools while continuing to attend practice. The bottom line was that he wanted to play QB in college. And I think he saw, as just about everyone else involved with the program did, that it wasn't going to happen for him within the Weis offense.
I talked about Carufel above. There's no way to know what happened there. He's a 19-year old who was homesick and was having trouble making friends/meeting people on campus. Going away to college isn't for everyone. And even if Weis' personality or philosophy played a part in driving him home, that's one guy he's affected negatively.
As far as in-season transfers of players who were battling for starting positions being "not normal," I just find that to be utterly false. Every program has kids transfer for one reason or another, at different times during the course of the year. I've been reluctant to use this argument until now, but those transfers do free up 4 scholarships for the future. Certainly a tenuous argument to say the least, but I'll throw it out there for giggles.
and the starting 5-6 guys on the ND OL are as 'guru approved' as GT, BC and many other OLs across the nation. only ND's is so godawful on the field. weis is making 4-5* guys look like idiots on the field. and idiots off the field for falling for weis' hypnotic recruiting trance:
/soft, ghostly voice intermixed w/ slobbering sounds from food being shoved in his noisehole/
'you will come to ND....you will be guarenteed a starting positon...and admission to the Mendoza Bschool...and a diploma from the school... pass me that creame pie....do not look at the players on the field....they are all 2* fatties...i've been coaching sam young for 2 years and he's a redheaded doofus...apparently, he has 2 left feet and never disclosed that to me...yes, like Eugene Levi in Best in Show...you will start over him...give me your cheesecake....we will never lose to MSU again under my watch...ooops i guess not....MSU must have a ton of 5*s on their team.....do you have any fudge sauce in the fridge?.....nevermind, just roll the fridge over here...SB is a wonderful town...best arby's i've ever been too....the SB IHOP gets 5 stars from me...unlike any of Willinghams recruits....and the taco bell is open till 4am here...good thing too...now who's up for dessert?'
I was going to post my own diagnosis of the ND sideshow, but DanK that was so damn funny i need to regain some composure!
Criminy. At ASU we had a six-man O-line corps a few years back and we went 8-4 and won our bowl game. You didn't hear us pissing and moaning about some coach from years before.
The level of self-delusion, and it's impossible to overstate this, just blows my fucking mind.
ND Sucks. It's Official. Who cares?
I do, I kinda like it.
JJ, that is a masterful job of trying to spin the Jones transfer. It was ridiculous right down to Weis not agreeing to release him from his scholarship (which he might as well do even if the kid is leaving anyway, lest he piss off the coaches of the Chicago high schools). Seriously, you seem like a reasonable enough person that you should step back and, like, open your eyes.
Look, all the respect for supporting your team through this catastrophe. But you can't believe half the stuff you're trying to sell here. You can't even believe 10% of it, can you? No product of a top 20 nationally ranked university can really believe this crap, can they? Just admit it, and maybe people will stop chiding you.
These ND people smack of desperation. It's like their last stand and they're going make damn sure that they go down screaming and spinning and twisting their way to some convoluted logic. That's what's so enjoyable about this whole thing is watching supposedly educated and intelligent people be so utterly dumb. And we all know they don't believe what they're saying but they're going to make damn sure WE believe.
It's really an incredible gift we've all been given.
"Sound of Crickets"
As the ND Faithful ponders the reality...
Serious question for the Notre Dame fans:
Would the ND administration have fired Willingham if they didn't think they were going to get Urban Meyer? That is, would Kevin White have chosen Charlie Weis over Ty Willingham?
Another question, what in the last 15 years have you seen that makes you think that Notre Dame is going to all of a sudden turn into an elite program? No bowl wins in 15 years, as many losing seasons in the last 10 as winning. Four bad hires in a row (if you count O'Leary).
If the one thing that makes you hopeful for the future is Weis' recruiting, aren't you concerned about the inexact science of recruiting rankings, and how certain recruiting "experts" tend to overrate the prospects going to the big-name schools? Furthermore, is their any evidence that Weis is any more than Ron Zook with the power of NBC behind him.
I just don't get how any rational Notre Dame fan could look at their program's direction and be happy.
Notre Dame is that deer on the side of the road fatally injured but still moving a little. It knows its done for but that fight for life still exists. I admire the spunk that some of these Notre Dame fans have still talking spack at 1-7. The question is whether they will still be this upbeat when ManBoobs has them sitting at 3-5 or so at this time next year with 3 top 10 recruiting classes under his large belt? Right direction? They will have gone from suck to stink.
For the record, if Michigan were 1-7 right now I would be talking trash about the future too if I hadnt already sworn off watching football forever. Chances are pretty good that I wouldnt have turned on a TV or read a newspaper since about 0-4...
I have a few outsider tidbits for this discussion. (I'm a Gator who enjoys this blog and wish I had Brian's skill)
Re: Mike Hart
I remember another undersized running back with a big heart that everyone said would be a bust in the NFL. His name was Emmit Smith.
Re: Notre Dame's youth
Florida is the youngest team in the country (see Phil Steele). Younger than Notre Dame. We're starting a true Freshman on the O-Line (M. Pouncy), two true freshmen in the secondary (M. Wright, J. Haden), and have countless true freshmen in our defensive and offensive two-deep. Notice, Florida is not 1-7.
Re: Manningham's stop
Very racist, perfectly legal. I do post-conviction relief and see my share of traffic stops, in a situation like this, reasonable suspicion is very easy for the cop to show. Hopefully there are some facts not present in the article that can be spun towards Manningham.
I had a dream last night I missed the UM-Minnesota game for some other prior responsibility (I'm going to the game today, thank Zoltan) and I kept asking people the score after the game. All I could get out of anyone was 34-30, Minny with no details. I nearly went insane and then woke up believing it was Sunday and my world just ended. Two Horrors in a year? Impossible.
@ cfaller96:
I never mentioned Hart's size as a potential downfall. All I mentioned was his speed. There are numerous examples of smaller running backs who have been successful (Dunn, Jones-Drew, Barry Sanders, etc.).
@ Robert Greene:
First of all, Emmitt Smith is taller than Mike Hart. Like I said, I don't think size is a factor with Hart, but nobody ever accused Smith of being tiny and brittle. Second, Emmitt wasn't a blazer, but he was faster than Hart. Emmitt ran away from NFL defensive backs on occasion. Hart can hardly run away from college LB's.
While I do not know the exact 'ratio' of experience on ND's team, I think we've got a pretty good comparison with PSU (not to mention head to head.) Michigan played them with a true freshman QB, a couple young guys on the O-line, a true freshman in the secondary just to make some examples. That strikes me as a good refutation that M might be 1-7 with ND's schedule. ND has experience-- Young, Sullivan, The Boxer (and that other shit DB), Travis Thomas, Carlson, Laws (3 of those guys are on the O-line!)... These gentlemen just aren't getting it done. Sullivan can barely snap the ball.
I also think it is incorrect to suggest D. Jones would never see the field for ND. Since he won the QB tryout, I think it is reasonable to assume he would have gotten playing time after Clausen didn't exactly grab hold of the starting job. I also imagine many would have told you Carlos Brown would never see the field for M. Now, he starts.
@ MaizeNotYellow
"if they radioed ahead to have someone else pull them over, the car that spotted them initially was hiding/standing still."
IIRC, the article said the initial car was unmarked. I'm no expert, but I believe it's illegal for an unmarked car to make a traffic stop. Otherwise, what's to stop me from getting a flashing light, putting it on my roof, and pulling someone over to arrest them?
The initial car could have been driving next to or behind them, but they would have had to radio a marked unit to actually make the stop.
odd request:
any bars in new haven ct that are M-friendly?
1. Manningham, maybe they were guilty of DWMPIO (driving with michigan plates in ohio) I've been guilty of that a couple of times and pulled over for doing absolutely nothing (catch and release) and I'm asian.
2. What head coaching experience did lloyd have? (none) What did he do in his third year? (12-0?) and the coach before him had eight losses in the two years before lloyd took over.
3. "Casual observers of the Irish football program may draw that conclusion but anyone paying very close attention to the last 8 years of Notre Dame football was saying that 2007 would be a disaster regardless of who the head coach was." HAHAHAHAH, you just called all the bloggers at blue grey sky and 98% of the ndnation 'casual observers' BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.
or were you thinking 8-4 disaster? 6-6 disaster? BWAHAHAHAH! tim brewster coulda pulled off a 2-10 (if you're LUCKY) disaster.
4. 3 in-season transfers is just plain odd. It's bad for the kids cause they lose practice time, it's bad for the team. It's bad all around. There's just no good way to spin it. at least wait till the end of the season. Something must be horribly wrong. and it's name is weis attitude.
Carr has given transfer papers to dozens of kids, and oddly, they usually end up not transferring, they end up getting better.
5. we know that weis and willingham have the same record after 33 games, but what is the point margin? I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but I'm betting willingham's is better because this season has just been full of blowouts for nd.
@ BlueSeoul
Manningham et al. were pulled over in Monroe County, which is in Michigan, not Ohio.
Have no idea whether Manningjham was a victim of DWB stop (since I know, and am amazed that all who have commented on this either ignore or don't realize, that the full extent of the facts were probably not reported in the media), but as a former prosecutor, I do know this:
Undercover officers in unmarked car may not make traffic stop. Hanging anything from a rearview mirror is illegal as a vision obstruction while the car is in operation. Cops in marked car can't make the stop for speeding or absence of a seat belt on the front sear occupants without observing it themselves. And it is unlikely that the reasons for the strip search were reported by the media, although were probably in the officers' reports. So to those of you for whom it is obvious or clear, guess again.
@MVM - go somewhere else to spew your bigoted crap.
@Gallaher - Nice to lump all Michigan fans as bigots based on one poster. I'm Irish, Catholic and a Michigan alum. (There are probably more of us at Michigan than at ND.)
Having been subject of many catch and releases in DC, OH and MI, they only searched my car once. One might think you can resist the search or demand probable cause but it's never that easy. What the police do is ask you to step out of the car, then take you back to their car for paper work or questions, or just put you in cuffs. Then the other officer searches your car while you're unaware or otherwise detained.
While it may be legal the Manningham search is complete BS. I noticed when I changed my appearance the rate of 'just checking' stops went way down. They never went to zero probably because I drive a terrible car. I also doubt that area is 'one of the biggest drug' hubs in North America. I've watched Miami Vice and I know what goes on in FLA. There's probably some drug traffic in SoCal. Don't forger the meth labs in Northern Michigan!!
Bigoted?
Outrage. I am merely expressing my opinion that all organized religions are based on mysticism and stories passed down for thousands of years from Egyptians and Pagans.
The same story over and over is told about a hero who is born on Dec 25 of a virgin, performs miracles, has 12 apostles, is crucified...rises three days later....Jesus is like the 10th iteration of the same story.
But some people have to believe that their particular version is true and have to call others bigots for disagreeing with them. I would only say to investigate the facts and that you will have to go outside your church to do so, because they aren't exactly big on telling the truth about
anything, at anytime, to anyone anywhere.
That Brady video needs to be emailed to every single poster on ND Nation. Those jokers still think Weis "made" him.
@Michael:
When Ty Willingham left ND he had recruited so few offensive lineman that any half way sensible football fan would know a disaster was in the making.
Really? Disaster? I'm amazed that you just called 9-3 a disaster. Either that or you are calling these people crazy.
Wait, are you the same Michael? Yeah, 10-2 is a disaster. You do have high expectations. I hope this ND team is exceeding all your expectations.
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