first.
and this is simply a GOOD THING.
those who stay will be ...
First:
YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
losing justin boren is HARDLY a good thing.
Pull your head out of your ass with this "those who still will be champions" I'm sick of hearing that
:( no qb, no offensive line.
Never seen so many people panic over so little.
uh, I'm not first
@Bouje
How is losing a player that doesn't want to be here (for whatever reason) a bad thing?
I hate to be so pessimistic but I don't think he will be the last player to quit
FUCK. That's for the loss of talent.
YAY. That's for losing someone who doesn't want to be here ala Mallett. He probably couldn't handle Barwis either, so buhhbye....
At the end of the day, it is RichRod's team. That squad at WVA that stomped the living shit out of favored Oklahoma in their bowl game was also RichRod's team. I think I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
I believe in RR and I like Barwis and I like where they are taking this program and how we won't be "charminy soft anymore".
BUT
BUT anyone that doesn't think that losing our best/most experienced offensive lineman when the rest of the line is so green and immature doesn't really know anything about football.
We are going to be in for a long season next year.
When Bo came there was some guys who left because they didn't want to deal with the added conditioning.
RR won at WVU with talent that was less than Boren. I agree, if he doesn't want to be part of the team then we're better off without him.
P.S. did anyone get the story as to why? I know on the scout free board someone said that the reason made them "sick" anybody got anything?
I'm not sure how this could be construed as a good thing. I don't remember hearing anything about Boren being a negative influence. I'm not sure the Mallett comparison makes sense. That said, I just want to hear what RR has to say about it.
while it does hurt to lose boren, if he doesnt want to be here then i dont want him on the team. We want people who want to be here and work their asses off, and not people who arent sure if they want to put in the work to play for UM.
RR won't say anything about it (I'm quoting from his presser)
When asked about Boren he said
"I will not talk about players that do not play for Michigan"
Anyone who says losing our best OL is a good thing, is an idiot.
Yes, if he doesn't want to be here, then he should leave - but the point is kinda to make him want to be here...
If none of our guys want to be here anymore, and they all leave, is that a good thing?
I have to say I am a bit scared. 3 O-Linemen, Mallet, no Pryor....man this is not a great start. I hope people with positive attitudes about this are not going to be O.K. with 4 plus loss season because it is a new regime? I did not expect it when Coach Rod came on board, but it is looking very bad for next year. Very bad.
RR is just gonna say Boren didn't want to stay and he's gonna leave it at that.
is there a free transcript of the presser or an audio clip anywhere, or just the scouts/rivals crap?
And no offense but you guys don't know WHY he left so how do you know he "didn't want to be here or play for UofM" or that he's "soft" I'm pretty sure that a guy that plays on a broken ankle isn't soft.
Probably the appropriate thing to say. It is definitely going to hurt the next couple of years.
I'd rather see 1 or 2 4-6 loss seasons and then BCS wins in our future then watch 4 more years of what we've had.
RR has shown that he can get it done at the highest level. If we have a rocky start then so be it. The guys that stick around will be winning us championships.
Damn this is going to hurt for next year.
But in the long run, if you don't want to put the work in then don't let the door hit you on the way out.
You guys aren't going to like where he's trying to transfer...
his dad won't let him go to ohio state don't you worry
@Tyler:
which is?????
I thought the expectation at Michigan was for the "position", not "the player"....my bad.
Why even play the games this year? We should just forfeit them all until we can fill our roster with 5 star athletes at every position.
Have fun with Brian Kelly Justin
I guess this means I will have to scream louder next season
All of these doom and gloom predictions for next year are horsecrap IMO. Have you guys actually looked at the schedule? Show me where 5 or 6 losses are on this schedule....
Utah
Miami, OH
@ Notre Dame
Wisconsin
Illinois
Toledo
@PSU
MSU
@Purdue
@Minnesota
NW
@OSU
???
What am I missing here? The only game I see us definitely losing is (as much as it pains me to say it) @OSU. The rest are all winnable, if not likely wins. The defense is going to be solid. Maybe not great, but pretty good. And the offense will come around. Keep in mind that noone in the Big Ten is used to defending the spread, either.
Now, let's all sing "The Sun Will Come Up, Tomorrow".....
He has inquired in the past about transferring to OSU and paying his own way.
Cincinnati has also been mentioned as a possibility.
It will DEFINITELY be a school in Ohio.
and his dad will support him whichever way he decides.
Never knew 194 people could be so quiet, reminds me of the big house...
I would love it if he went to OSU. Talk about more fuel on the fire and a sweeter victory when RRod beats the Vest.
Remember, no one gave Bo a chance against OSU his first year when Woody was supposed to have an "invincible" team.
What will defenses do once they realize that hart isn't running left behind long this year?
@ Nick
Bo had a full offensive line that year.
The encouraging thing for us this year is that Carr's OL type aren't necessary the best fit for RR's offense. While Boren is a loss, other linemen that were discarded by Carr 'cause they weren't road graters may now be better fits for the OL.
Can we talk about hockey again?
Eh, what can you do. These things happen during transitions. Kid obviously felt like he had to do what was best for him. If he think it's best to transfer than who are any of us to say otherwise?
It's not like he quit the weekend before the start of the season. He did it during the off-season and unlike Mallett his parents didn't feel the need to be interviewed and in the news for it.
Seems like a pretty classy way to go and I wish him nothing but luck. Except of course against UM.
All this "those that stay" talk is really getting old quick. This is not good news, spinning it otherwise is just silly.
That said, this is hardly unexpected that a few kids would leave during a major coaching and philosophical change.
I'm glad people are finally starting to get worried over RR and his crazy ass ways.
there are a lot of people complaining about the seeding in the hockey tourney. i thought, aside from Miami in the NE and UNH in the West, that it was the best they could have done.
my question is, how will Niagara and SCSU/CU play UM? are they trapping teams? will they stand 3 on the blue line?
Brian,
What exactly do you know about Rod's ways? Did you play for him? Have you worked out under Barwis? just curious
As long as its "Steve Spurrier"-like crazy and not "Hal Mumme"-like crazy, I'm good with it. Heck, I'll even take "Jack Pardee early 90's"-like criminally insane.
I know I'm not going to take shit for this, because I'm a Lloyd "enabler" (according to Bend It Like Gingell, who has been noticeably absent for a few months)...
...but if Michigan ends up 8-4 next year, I'll be fine with that. With all the attrition, losses to graduation, and installment of a new system, I don't think 8-4 is too bad.
THE SKY IS FALLING!
THE SKY IS FALLING!
Seriously, WOW. You guys really need to take a deep breath and step away from the ledge.
One person does not make a football team. Who knows why he left - maybe he didn't get along with the new coaches, maybe the workouts were getting too hard for him. Maybe he got homesick. In any case, as long as this doesn't go past Mallett and Boren, there is no reason to panic. There's a lot of time between now and Utah and even longer before our first real game.
i heard that he might change his mind, why don't we just relax and wait until herbstreit reports the truth.
From now on
Justin Boren, Ryan Mallett= Bill Richardson
FLIP FLOPPERS
moving on.
How's spring practice going?
Speaking of ledges, Grand Ledge sucks. I used to know a guy from there and he was annoying.
True story.
Bottom line, nobody knows what to expect this year. which is kinda exciting in a terrifying way.
Is anybody from the San Francisco bay area going to try to watch the hockey game. I don't see places turing it on in less we go somewhere in force
Flip flopper = my dong
That's right.
I nicknamed it.
Magnus, are you a dude?
usually 8-4 is the absolute floor for me, but 7-5 in a transition year, given the youth of the O.... seems reasonable.
I just said I have a dong.
I'll give you three guesses to get it right.
i think two would be sufficient.
7-5 is good enough.
The sooner we lower expectations, the better. Next year will be fugly. Just hopefully not as fugly as Beilein-ball.
Here's a cheerup: I called the LSU football office today, from the number on Tate Forcier's offer. Asked for Les Mile's secretary by name, claiming to be Russell Shepherd. Now I'm a cracker and about as white as you get, but I'll be damned if I didn't do an outstanding job mimicking the vocals of a young black Texan. I fooled both secretary's, and even made some small talk with one of them about my girlfriend, who evidently "just stopped by the office yesterday with her friend." They offered a job to my girlfriend but she declined. I told them I'd talk some sense into her. I missed Coach Miles by 5 minutes she said. I spoke with the OC, Gary Crowton instead, and was told I am the centerpiece of their return to the title game. I told them how much I enjoyed seeing The University of Ohio State lose (haha). I asked for Coach Miles to call me back when he gets time... we'll see if I get to talk to him yet.
Boren's situation: He knocked a girl up in Ohio and feels the need to support her and the baby.
Just kidding.
I can't believe he is our most experienced offensive lineman. This is the same Boren who spent much of last year being bullrushed into the ground?
Flightsci, audio or it didn't happen
Kinda exciting in a terrifying way yes- and much better than the quiet desperation knowing our talent would be wasted in stodgy, predictable conservatism.
@Dank:
I really can't see 7-5. We'd have win only one game out of ILL, Wisky, State, PSU and ND. (Assuming a loss to the university of Ohio State). While conceivable, it's just so highly improbable to me it's insane.
I was thinking the same... I'll have to record another call. Rest assured though, it happened. I nearly gave it away several times from uncontrollable snickering
114 101 109 101 109 98 101 114 32 119 104 101 110 32 119 101 32 99 111 117 108 100 32 106 117 115 116 32 112 111 115 116 32 116 104 105 110 103 115 32 108 105 107 101 32 116 104 105 115 32 97 110 100 32 101 118 101 114 121 111 110 101 32 119 111 117 108 100 32 106 117 115 116 32 108 97 117 103 104 32 97 110 100 32 98 101 32 109 101 114 114 121 63 32 32 119 104 97 116 32 101 118 101 114 32 104 97 112 112 101 110 101 100 32 116 111 32 116 104 111 115 101 32 100 97 121 115 63
M Flight Sci
I want to call some schools too. What's the link for Forcier's stuff?
@ M - Flightsci:
Audio of this and you will be a LEGEND.
65 112 112 97 114 101 110 116 108 121 32 116 104 101 121 32 119 101 114 101 32 114 101 112 108 97 99 101 100 32 98 121 32 110 101 114 100 121 32 99 111 109 109 101 110 116 115 44 32 97 110 111 110 46
i agree, ninja.... but after 2005, the horror, and the current depth along the Oline, anything is possible. even 7-5.
my over under from months ago was 3.5 losses/12. i would have taken the 9-3 over. now i'm thinking 8-4 under.
not that 1 guys makes a one game diff (i'm not adjusting my o/u), but he was the best & most experienced OL coming back. any injuries on the line HAS to place a True Fr in a significant role now.
I see 7-5. Start 2-0, lose 2 of the next 3, or all 3. Beat Toledo, lose at Happy Valley, beat lil' brother, win 2 of the next 3 and get smoked by OSU.
8-4 would be GOOD. 9-3 would be EXCELLENT. Anything better would be UNTHINKABLE.
@SlaunchaMan,
Actually those were popular last week. That and bablefish.
Boren's skill set is not ideal for the spread. Plus working hard in practice is, you know, hard. I give him credit for being smart enough to realize he (work ethic included) no longer fit M's system. Good news: his decision is so insightful and smart that it pretty much over-qualifies him to join tUOS. No?
I think I'm going to open my conversation with Miles (should it ever happen) by talking about how important loyalty is to me: to my family, my girlfriend, and my team. Then I'll tell him how much I respect him for sticking with his "damn strong" football team, and ask why he didn't go to Michigan.
Any suggestions for conversation topics?
audio of that, but w/ tressel and you'll be a deity.
I suspect that there is more behind this than Boren quitting because the conditioning or practice is too tough or the coaches are assholes. He's a tough guy and his dad is blue. I wonder if we will ever find out the real reason. Let's see if he transfers and plays ball.
8-4, with a really dumb loss and 1 shocking win.
Ask him why lloyd hates him, besides the recruiting deal
Henne: Here's the link, hit some digits.
I'm not sure how many are not blacked out. I suggest giving Harbaugh, he of the greatest academic and athletic program in the universe, a call.
http://www.qbforce.com/tate/offe...fers/
Offers.htm
Thanks M- Flightsci
Unfortunately Harbaugh blotted his number out, but here's what I did find.
Bo Pelini (Nebraska) 402-472-3116
Les Miles (LSU) 225-578-3504
Mike Bellotti (Oregon) 541-346-4418
man. those ADs are going to have to change their phone numbers after a couple days of our usage.
also, out of the hope of getting audio from flightsci I recommend nobody else call Les... at least calling Les posing as Russell.
Tate Forcier's gonna get in trouble...
yeah and then he won't sign with us
Someone else can call pretending to be Rohan Davie, Jamarcus Russell or Matt Mauck.
Yeah, leave Les alone, he's mine. I'll figure out why Lloyd hates him. Ask Bellotti how much Nike gives him personnally/year.
why wouldn't he sign? it's not hard for them to just change their numbers.
plus it's not like they know the harassment is coming from michigan fans. honestly, i bet tons of other people are doing it too.
They would link the calls by all the michigan questions.
Boren was knocked around most of 2006, when Riley and Mitchell were caving in, and when he tried to play center, he tended to get knocked around. Don't know if those bad snaps to Mallett were his issue or shared, but...
One more fresh face on an offense filled with fresh faces and a new scheme won't make THAT big of a difference.
apparently tuberville doesnt want forcier to call him back
if you want to get the shepard accent down, watch his interview with scout and rivals.
Boren's skill set doesn't fit the spread offense? You mean being strong and nasty is bad for the spread?
That's BS.
Rodriguez might want lighter, faster offensive linemen. But that doesn't mean Boren would be a failure in this offense. There's not a huge difference between Michigan's zone blocking scheme and WVU's zone blocking scheme.
There IS a difference between the Dallas Cowboys' road graders and the Denver Broncos' technicians, but come on...Boren would have still been a stud.
I saw the shepherd video a while ago and I sorta forgot how he talks, besides the fact that he's well spoken. I didn't use much slang and I figured talking about my girlfriend would convince them.
@ Lexus Larry
Boren didn't play for most of 2006. And even if he did, he was a true freshman.
He obviously wasn't a good center, which is why he got moved to guard in 2007. With the exception of the OSU game, he played pretty well at guard (and he wasn't the only lineman who sucked against OSU).
the kentucky coach listed his number too, but no one wants to call kentucky...
Gundy is on there, want to tell him he's a 40 year old man getting prank phone called?
M Flight
You should talk about how things with the gf aren't going well, and you don't know how long it will last.
Les miles will throw a major hissy fit.
Speaking of, how can Ok State claim that he'd be playing championship football?
Ok State always wins their spring game.
touche
I'd like to speak with Mike Bellotti. Though I don't even know who he's after. Could pretend to be Terrelle Pryor sayin, "wasup coach, yeah...uh...i been thinking real hard, and i still would like to come up for a visit"
If I had the luxury to choose, I'd pick Kevin Newsome over Tate Forcier any day every day.
It'd been funnier if the LSU letter said "this is a damn strong statement of faith in you as a person"
GET...... READY.......TO........SUCK
Seriously, this is going to be an almost perfect imitation of Notre Dame circa 2007.
The sun will rise tomorrow!
Oh look, an ugly fat troll just waltzed into the forum.
dude, avery's "the kaiser" is a great beer. true story.
@Dank:
I agree about the O-line and a possible true freshman having to step in. In my mind we have a few things going for us though.
First, I don't think we will face a single team better conditioned than we are.
Secondly, you have our talent, which to be honest has been like taking a chick with a smoking hot body and dressing her in a potato sack. The conditioning will help, but keep in mind you're also going to have people who have been stuck on the depth chart due to politics who are going to absolutely blow up.
Third, the offense will be new to us, but it'll also be new to everyone we play. I think this situation with Lloyd would have been worse than it is with R2.
Fourth, the defense is gonna be pretty damn good, and even with a "bad" offense we'll still score some points.
Perhaps I'm setting myself up for disappointment on a Golden Domer scale but I really don't think so.
PS. How nice is it to hold up ND as the standard for pure, unadulterated failure. I love it.
@magnus
There is no "might" about it, Richrod wants faster players in general. i admit to speculating on the true reasons he is leaving. it's all we can snidely do at this point. not to discouraged though, at losing a player that is seamingly inflexible and can't adapt to change well, no matter how big and nasty (by the way those two traits often accompany "slow") he is.
I for one, like Notre Dame. don't like Weis though.
Not even for his jokes? Come on, that whale shirt is hilarios
so i'm going to the blue & white game at penn state (I'll be in state college for work that weekend). any particular request for ridiculous photo opportunities?
This puss is just an example of why we have been average for the last ten years.
Hello, my name is charlie Weis. Please hire me. I'll give you a decided schematic advantage. Even without an o-line. Thats how I did it with the patriots.
Avg. OL recruit star ratings from 2004-2008
(Per Scout, as my ratings suck)
West Virginia-2.61 stars
Michigan-3.52 stars
With or without Boren, RR still has much more talent than he's ever had...
Formerly:
How about I send you a "Penn State: Easier to Beat than Appalachian State" t-shirt. That should really curry some favor with the locals.
Maybe I'll call Les and sound like Ryan Mallet. You know, one "Michigan Man" to another.
I don't know where to report this, but RR molested me. Anally.
Does anyone besides Harbaugh think people give a shit he's the "Bradford M. Freeman Director of Football" at Stanford?
Jimmy may as well put "Bourgeois Douchebag" in his signature.
u sick sonsa bitches
From MLIVE mssg board:
"Justin Boren left because: and this is going to blow you away: swearing. He was offended by the “f-bombs” that RR and staff having been using at practices. Supposedly “F-bombs” were dropped from time to time during Carr's tenure but have become an every sentence thing under RR.This is the 100% truth, my friend is a walk on and he swears this is true.Take it for what its worth."
Hello friends,
It's one offensive lineman...this level of over-reaction is worse than the TP incident. It's okay people, last I looked the RichRod recruited and coached up model was destroying Oklahoma. I'll reserve the panic until later in the year. It's not terrible to quote the "those who stay..." line...given that it's accurate.
Best wishes all.
RR touched my penis without my consent. Thats rape.
RR stuck his finger in my anus. Then he licked it and stuck his penis in my anus. I can prove it... he has a WV tattoo on his dick head.
@ Peterbilt:
Fuck that. That's the biggest piece of fucking garbage since that fucking fucker fuckin' left.
If I'm a pass rusher going against Cincy in the future, I scream "fuck" over and over until Justin curls up into a giant ball on the field.
Frequent posters who have gone MIA/AWOL (additions/corrections would be appreciated:
00goblue00 - (IIRC) disappeared towards the end of the coaching search
Bend it like gingel - was vindicated when Lloyd retired, left all of us apologists/enablers behind
Jamie Mac - disappeared after bowl season/steelers playoff loss?
Meeechigan Dan- Guaranteed Mallett would stay, whereabouts now unknown.
The Dick - was very funny, hasn't been around in a long time.
THE KNOWLEDGE - Lived up to his word and never came back after Sarkasian was not hired.
I'm shocked by the move because Boren is one of those legacy guys whom you just don't think would leave the school. And I can't envision someone as nasty and tough as him(from what I've seen) would bail on a program because of heightened conditioning or...fucking a...excessive swearing. He's from Ohio. When you're born there, the doctor says "it's a fucking boy" Dont give me this excessive swearing shit. And don't tell me Lloyd's assistant coaches yelled "shenanigans" or "fiddlesticks!" when someone fucked up in practice. Fuck, fuck, fuck that rumor.
I'll hold out all judgement until something from Justin or somebody close to the situation comes out. A starting offensive linemen never leaves an NFL Oline pipeline like Michigan. This new scheme could not be that much of a detriment towards his beliefs about his future as an NFLer. And again, he was a certifiable 'Michigan Man' to the core.
It's time for all these top 100 busts to step it up. Judging by what Rod was able to do with 2-star talent at WV, I'm slightly optomistic...but I do expect our QB to be sitting on his ass at least 15 times a game this fall.
Well looks like Feagin will start now. Whoever is back there is going to be running for his life all season.
@JHS:
I think Bend it like gingel posted the other day.
I'm much stupider after reading that thread.
It's time for all these top 100 busts to step it up.
This was exactly my point with the new regime and everyone getting a fresh start- I think we're in for a few surprises from former busts who didn't think they had a chance to play under Lloyd.
how can Boren possibly show his face at another school? he left Michigan because the practices were too hard and he had to run too much .... who would want to play with a guy like that? He should be so humiliated ... everyone else is staying and can take it - he's the kid that takes his ball and goes home when his team starts to lose. His father - a real Michigan man - must be ashamed.
At least you still have your picture of Bike Hart on the main page. You know, Michigan's greatest running back ever. Justin...welcome to the good guys.
"I'm much stupider after reading that thread."
dex, you can't be too much "stupider". I mean, a midget can only fall so far.
ziiiiiing!
Damn cookies.
"Gay" comments aren't funny. They're idiotic.
Boren will be an All American, so his departure is a bummer. He was the only returning guy on the line who had a mean streak.
I think the idea that practices are too difficult is jumping the gun. Maybe his Dad's sick, maybe a ton of things. It could be anything.
I bet he's leaving because the vibe is different with RR. Lloyd was more of a father/grandfather type, and RR -- or Fry? -- is more like a drill sergeant.
No, seriously, this is all stupid. Here's what any of us "know" about the situation:
Justin Boren no longer plays for UM.
Here are things you do NOT know:
-That he is going to OSU
-That he is leaving because of Barwis
-That he is leaving because of RR
-That he is leaving because people swear too much
So, we can continue with the panic, dumb dumb dumb shit about this somehow being the downfall of Michigan, or the completely fucking fetal alcohol syndrome level retarded comments that this proves Rich Rodriguez will fail, or we can go to bed.
RR stuck his middle finger up my asshole and felt around. Do you guys care? He liked his finger and then started rubbing my crotch while I cried. Then he got his penis out. He started rubbing his penis while he was licking my face and fingering my anus. He finished up, and then said "This is how we do it at Michigan".
What the HELL is wrong with you people? I was RAPED. NOBODY IS LISTENING TO ME. YOUR COACH RAPED ME.
I wonder what Lloyd would say about this. On one hand, Boren wishes he was still the coach, on the other hand, him leaving flies in the face of everything Lloyd ever said, "it's about the team, not the coach, not anything else, the team."
M staff, I'm with ya. I'm confident that we'll be fine with Molk at C and Schilling(whose frame and athleticism will be embraced by this spread system) at RT. But I have absolutely no clue whose going to step up inside, and it looks like - Barwis help us - McAvoy is at LT? It'll be an interesting spring, that's for sure.
Remember, we've gone into a lot of seasons recently with highly-touted offensive lines that didn't really perform up to par when the games mattered. Maybe we need a change of pace like this where are expectations are completely barren.
Tim Staudt, bastion of all that I absolutely despise in Lansing, just reported that R2 KICKED BOREN OFF THE TEAM.
Interesting.
@ninja -- say more. who is this Staudt? A sportswriter?
@dex -- this seems like a big deal to me, I confess. Should I feel stupid because of this?
People are very optimistic about this season IMO. With all of our talent this year, we went 9-4. Is our schedule easier this year? Yeah, at least in ways that should benefit our schedule on the whole. But still, people who think we'll go 8-4 or 7-5 are thinking high.
As far as Boren, I really hope it is a good reason.
10-3
No, it is a big deal in ways. But the knee jerk reactions either way (those who stay vs. KILL ROD) are fucking ridiculous.
Yup.
8-4 is thinking high? No. With how shitty the Big Ten is, 8 wins is exactly what our expectations should be. 7 may be more plausible, but any worse is extremely pessimistic and 9+ just doesn't appear to be in the cards with Threet or Feagin at QB.
We have a very, very good defense, excellent RBs, and a spread offense being directed by one of the more ingenuitive coaches in recent memory. You dont need a whole lot of smoke and mirrors to beat most Big Ten teams. Outside of OSU, every other game is absolutely winnable based on the comparable talent levels.
And of course, we're not taking into account how much better conditioned these guys will be compared to recent lackadaisical Wolverine teams. These guys will be faster, stronger and better enduranced. When they lose games this fall after all the shit they will have gone through in the summer courtesy of Barwis and co, it wont be because of a lack of effort or shitty coaching - something all too common with our boys the past few years.
@Gravy:
Staudt is a local television sports anchor. He's been around for as long as I can remember (I'm 34), and he's the most prominent of sports reporters in Lansing, which is akin to having the most scabs at a herpes convention. He's a tremendous Sparty homer, and I've known him to report rumor before (he reported on that Pryor story that came out of Wisconsin) so take it with a grain if salt. He said that's waht came over the wire tho.
If RichRod actually kicked Boren off the team, Boren must have done some really crazy shit...
Remember, RichRod kept Pac Man and Chris Henry around. And KayJay Harris got into some shit too, didn't he?
Henne, thats a great idea. I can't believe I didn't think of it.
Earlier this year some mom from California started texting/calling me thinking I was her son. I had no idea WTF (oops, sorry Boren, hope I didn't offend you) was going on but after a couple of texts, I thought I was getting pranked and just played along with it. Turns out I played along with it for 2 weeks, convinced this lady and her husband I was their son, that I was breaking up with my fiancee (they were a big fan of her, evidently) and that I was acting so strangely "Mom" asked if I was on drugs... again.
At that point I couldn't stop laughing and told her to check the phone #
I can't imagine he was kicked off the team -- that would have to be because of some sort of disciplinary infraction -- drugs or not going to class. Being a smartass or not running hard just gets you in the doghouse.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.d...6/80325064/
1054
Nick Sheridan? Really?
On second though, I think I might call Oklahoma State, and when Mike Gundy questions my identity, I'll scream "I'M A MAN! I'M 40!!!!!" at him for 5 minutes straight
In other, better news:
Johan Franzen is the shit
@Huss (M Staff was me, btw):
I don't think 9+ is off the table. All we really need Threet to do is not lose games for us, ala Griese in '97. Make the reads, stick with the safe play, and our talent/conditioning/defense under Dr. No will win us games.
And I really need a better nickname for Shafer, he looks like a super/Bond movie villain but Dr. No just sucks. any ideas?
Oh yeah, and Threet's supposed to be smart as all crazy hell, that was another part of my point, so counting on him to make the reads isn't out of the question.
Honestly, who will we possibly lose to? Maybe Ohio State, but other than that...
@Huss: We might have a great defense, but think of the OSU game this past year. Our defense played well (minus 1 drive and one bad play which resulted in a touchdown). Even with such a great defense, without and offense we are screwed.
I'd like to think we will do well. I'd like to believe that RR will convert what we have into lean mean killing machines. Indeed this will happen overtime. But for now, for this upcoming season with only one offensive lineman returning and a novice quarterback, 8-4 will be pushing it in my opinion.
Then again, hopefully I am wrong.
Carlton, I can see us splitting the PSU and State series. Perhaps the same with ILL/Wisky, but I just don't see that at home. then the UoOS game is always a toss up no matter what, so who knows.
Did Brian mention Rocko Khoury as a beneficiary of the regime change? IMO, he's got to be excited about Rod's penchant for playing thinner, faster linemen.
Wow, Peterbilt. It's definitely possible. It could be like a religious values type thing. If it is true, then Boren shall henceforth be referred to as Justin Fucking Boren, or JfB
MTS, that's a good point...but that was OSU, right? Wisky, Penn State, and Illinois are not on that level. Any of those games can be won by us. Their defenses are not as good as OSUs, and who knows what to expect from the spread if its clicking by midseason?
Dr. Shafer?? Ok, that's lame. How about Osama bin Shafer? No, too fanatical. We want diabolical genius, not religious extremist.
Honestly we've got a pretty favorable schedule. We have a mental edge over both PSU and MSU, Illinois w/o Mendenhall doesn't scare me..Wiscy? maybe. But I think alot of people will be surprised this year.
Yeah, I think it'll depend on how quickly the players can pick up the spread. If Threet can get things done throughout the summer, then maybe he can get it done right away in the fall. But if kinks need to be worked out, things could get rough.
As I see it now, the team is young and inexperienced. In some ways this is good as RR has a clean slate to work with. Still, we'd all love to have Hart, Henne, MM, AA, and Long back for just one more year. Replacing all of that talent, as well as dealing with attrition and a lot of inexerpience at QB and the O-line could be treacherous.
Again, I hope I'm wrong. But think about it this way. Pretend the team we are discussing is actually OSU's team next year. Pretend they have no quarterback with any experience, a new coach, and a dwindling offensive line. How optimistic would you be about them? I don't know though, maybe (and hopefully) I am wrong.
I am not going to say that this is a good thing that Boren is leaving. Any attrition sucks. The guy was a team cancer? Then it sucks that Michigan-hating god deemed it necessary to make him a bad teammate.
Motherfucker!
We're stretched thin on OL as it is! And while we have frosh coming in next year, they still need to be trained and everything. It is so much better to have players that have been training since spring, and even better to have players who have been in the RR system for at least a season.
Fuck!
Boren did not leave because of the conditioning program, that is just silly to say that. First off winter conditioning, some of the toughest conditioning ended prior to spring ball. There is something else to him leaving. Maybe RR bumped him down on the depth chart.
The old man
It's clear that this team is going to work harder than previous teams. They're running a lot more, they're working out harder, and in general they're putting a lot more effort into being tough and in shape. Maybe Boren quit because of this. If so, too bad. I went to Michigan and worked my ass off as hard as I could. I would fully expect all football players to do the same, with pride. It pays off.
Of course, there could always be other issues: family issues, personal issues, etc. Nobody knows.
dolla dolla bill yall
it's actually pretty simple: none us know enough to predict how 2008 is going to go. Come the first game, however, and we'll all know.... if Utah is a loss or close, ND 2007-like possible disaster and, for sure, we'll be seeing kittens. And Utah's NOT a pushover cupcake... we can debate whether Utah is better than App State.
In any event, assume wins against Utah, Miami, @ Notre Dame, Toledo, NW and Minn. I think ND is a clear win given 38-0 last year; Weis is simply a bad coach; can't develop his high-schoolers... NW is, well, NW. Minn will win more next year, but I just don't see them leaping to the "danger level" after their 1-11 season.
So, six wins.
Now, the real questions are: Wisconsin, Illinois, @PSU, MSU, @Purdue and @tUoOS.
All are winable;
Two seems very doable.
My thoughts: I think it is a disadvantage that Wis and IL are early... less time for the new O to gel; would've been better for Wis to be at the end like in '07...
Illini are a question mark; without Mendenschal (sp?), hard to think they'll be as tough as '07, so maybe a W; Purdue probably pretty easily a W as long a the defense is good ...
PSU and Lil' Bro... tough to say; got the streak going with PSU; Sparty's always tough, but still under-talented...
As for OSU, if history holds true, RR should win his first game against tUoOS; MI coaches are 10-1 in their first game against the Buckeyes...
then a bowl game for another 9-4?
Ninja: always a toss up? where you been the last 4 years? lol.
Tuesday: Yes, he will beat OSU becuse Bo did. Lol.
@ Mr. Green... LOL, yes, just like Bo... But would be interesting to see that lightning strike again... Woody said his '69 team was his best ever; arguably '08 is gonna be Tressel's best ever (at least on paper and looking backwards in time)...
well, it will soon be Wednesday (here in the CST zone) and it's past my bedtime... night all...
Tuesday: Indeed. But I am saying Bo knew OSU, KNEW Woody's weaknesses and had OSU in AA. He also was Bo. RichRod is no Bo.
Sherrod Harris from Texas is THINKING about transferring. Looking at a few teams but UCLA and Michigan lead. Take it FWIW. He's a 6-2 205 QB who runs a 4.45 40.
@Mr Green
You ever look at Bo's bowl record. Please dont let him be another Bo!
@ mr.green :
Last year, winnable.
Year before: If not for a stupid PF penalty, we win that game.
'05: The University of Ohio state scores a TD with 25 seconds left to win by 4.
'04: Only blowout of the bunch, and blowout being 16 points.
So yeah, toss up.
@ Mr. Green... honestly, I'm not predicting a W @OSU... in fact, I think it will be an L...
the comment regarding MI coaches being 10-1 in their respective first games against the Buckeyes was part of my larger point that an 8-4 season (plus a Bowl win making another 9-4 season) is not an unreasonable expectation given the schedule... six pretty clear wins and just two more somewhere else. Maybe IL and/or Purdue. Maybe a split between MSU and PSU... Maybe just one of the others and lightning strikes... but honestly, I can't see the bowl game streak ending unless all the OL leaves early ... remember, Coach Carr just left meaning that HIS freshmen, sophs and juniors were trained (unlike Charlie the Tuna's). So RR is still inheriting MICHIGAN.
Well Harris may as well transfer I think he will be a rs soph this season - mccoy will still be starting for 2 more years and then Chiles and whatever that 5* recruit they got are waiting in the wings, so I don't see how he is going to get PT.
Here is a clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U...h?
v=UCXVCzaa6aU
He is a beast in NCAA08, FWIW.
Sherrod Harris is a pretty smart kid. In HS he had a 4.0 GPA and got a 1310 on his SATs. He was in the 2007 recruiting class. Was that after the addition of the essay part though? Do I actually care??
New Michigan slogan: Those who stay will be fucking champions.
Hey Ninja, JfB probably shouldn't transfer to Cincinnati. The bow-ties there will absolutely disgust him.
Michigan was 75th overall in total offense and 9th in the big 10 last year. Even with a depleted roster, I highly doubt a RRod coached Michigan team will come close to being that bad next year. The upgrade in coaching staff will more than make up for the attrition.
You're kidding yourself if you think Michigan will be bad on offense. This team right now has more talent on it than any team Rodriguez has ever had. He would have coached last year's backups to a better offensive output than Debord-led starters.
75th nationally! 9th in the Big 10! Unbelievable. While losing Boren is bad RRod will still make it work. I hope he finds a nice soft place to land because he didn't want to man up in Ann Arbor.
Dont tease me with this Sherrod Harris fluff. Stop it.
@Wayman:
BWAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHA.
Bow...bowtie.
AHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAA.......
@Anthony:
75th nationally? 9th in the Big 10? amazing I hadn't read that. It's pathetic.
Where and why is all this talk about Michigan NOT being in shape coming from They sure were in great shape when they kicked Floridas ass, beat them evey way possible the entire game, then they came back and went into winter conditioning, sooooooo IF they are not in shape then WTF has Barwis been doing ? Michigan has always put linemen in the NFL, so no way Im buying they are not in shape, unless Barwiss is Barwuss..
Whoops
68th nationally and 9th in the B10. I must have looked at pre-bowl game before.
Thats still garbage for having seniors Hart, Henne, Long, not to mention Manningham and Arrington. Debord should be locked up.
@ Gambler :
our old S&C program was outdated to a semi-embarrassing level. It might have been Boren who said he was instructed to eat a large pizza every night to put on weight. Barwis is a complete 180 from that, and while we did look pretty good against Florida, our guys have never been in the kind of shape they'll be in from now on.
@Anthony:
I wouldn't even count the bowl game as DeBord had clearly been invaded by body snatchers at that point and actually called a good game. So yeah, 75th and 9th.
@ Ninja, IF they were in great shape when Barwiss got them, then why the talk that they are NOT in good shape now..
sorry i dont buy it.. They should be in better shape now, if he is that good.
Anyone who has done weight training knows there are lots of ways to get the same results, but what Im saying is Michigan was in great shape when they got back from Florida, so they should be in better shape if Barwis is that good, so anyone who says the Michigan team is NOT in shape now, is either wrong or Barwis isnt any good.
Sounds like RR is trying to sell some snake oil to the press and other coaches..
LOL i read where Barwis has them drink chocolate milk after they work out, he said, hey it was good for you when you were a baby wasnt it ? .. Milk is as bad as pizza.. cow puss, i like to call it :P
schafer used to be on sprockets. have you met my monkey?
Skim or reduced fat chocolate milk is a far cry from pizza pie. Intakee weathers a bit too much simple sugar but reaps the rewards of high water content, aminos, electroytes and stomach coating which belies hunger. Pizza and energy products stimulate overfeeding. Barwis has got it right. Just watch next Fall.
anyone else notice that on Tate's offers a lot of addresses were used? I saw at least five: his high school, 3333 Midway Dr #205 (michigan), 3333 Midway #206 (stanford, iowa, baylor, kentucky, ok state), 3333 Midway Dr #306 (kansas), and 11956 Miro Circle (Oregon). How many of these offers are actually going to end up in his hands?
Tate is a self promoter, along with his Dad and handlers, he will milk his recruitment as long as he can, forget this kid, much better out there.
and LOL at Milk being good for you, try protien drinks if you want all those nutrients!
Given that Boren's dad played for Bo, I thought it was pretty odd that Justin was strongly considering OSU during his recruitment. He grew up in Columbus, though, and I wonder if his leaving is a reflection of longtime ambivalence about UM. Maybe he hates Blimpy's.
Whatever the reason, it's not in any way a good thing. You never want to lose experienced linemen in a transition year like this, esp. with the lack of experience at QB.
Those who think a new offense run by a QB with no game experience and largely new O-line won't have some very significant growing pains should invest immediately in the amazingly profitable world of California and Florida real estate. 8-4 or 7-5 seem reasonable to me.
Protein drinks and a lot of these other "fake foods" are increasingly discredited in the research. They don't actually do what they were designed to do in the same way actual foods do.
Barwis may drop the f-bomb, but he isn't an idiot.
From JB's facebook page:
Justin left the group Fuck Ohio State. 12:40am
Justin left the group FUCK THE BUCKS!!!!! 12:39am
Justin joined the group Big Ten Football Players. 12:33am
-A sign of where he may be going?
-Also, does this screw us in his brother's recruiting?
Losing Boren, the most experienced and best lineman is huge. Now what? Given Michigan's depth and experience on the offensive line they'll be transforming TEs into offensive linemen. Just watch.
It appears that there is an F bombing problem in Ann Arbor, only perhaps to be outdone by the F bombing going on in South Bend. This fall, it's going to be the F Bomb Bowl! Two proud academic institutions, but with coaches that you don't want to "mike up" on the sidelines.
Wasn't Boren All Big Ten last year?
I think Autumn Thunder has the right approach to Boren bailing: he's posted pics of puppies... which is by way of saying: puullleeeze folks, not that big O'deal...
I saw somewhere that Boren was Honorable Mention for all-B10 in '07; not sure true, but don't think he was official All B10...
and, finally, to all of those who offered thoughts re: sports for my small-ish nephew (before the Boren story began to break)... thanks... appreciated. I particularly liked the description of LaX as hockey on grass!...
No seniors on this offense to begin with, so Boren's defection hurts for the loss of his leadership quotient. We are gonna be green, green, green when we have the ball.
Hard to believe he would defect to OSU. Rare to transfer to another team in your conference, much less your main rival. What a recruiting bonanza for sweatervest if that's true, think of the stories he can tell kids - a Michigan legacy transfers after two years and becomes a Buckeye. Ugh, I don't wanna think about that. . .
You have the "mental" edge over Penn State...LOL. Congratu-fucking-lations, what are you on crack?
Last I checked, you don't have Jake Long and Mike Hart anymore...so how are you going to call a run play to the left and hand off to Hart 40 times when you don't have either player.
You don't have a QB, you don't have an established runner, you lost your starting WRs, you have NO OFFENSIVE LINE, your LBs are complete pussies :) and you play AT Penn State.
Penn State returns it's ENTIRE Offensive Line, has a RB with over 500 yards and 5 TDs who backed up an accused H.S. Parade All-American rapist and a 5'9 185 pound RB who ran a 4.5 40. Behind Royster who is the likely starter, we have Stephfon Green who ran a verified 4.31 40 at a Nike Camp and has been getting great reviews so take that cum guzzler Michael Shaw who said Penn State was his dream school - you can have him. Behind him is 4* Ohio RB Brandon Beachum who enrolled early and is 6' 225-235 pounds from Cardinal Mooney and he will get touches.
We add a previously injured and surgically repaired 4* WR/TE Jon Ditto [6'4 215 4.5 40] from Gateway into the mix who never got a chance to show what he could do in practice, 4* freshman Mark Wedderburn who is as impressive an athlete as Andrew Quarless is. 4* TE Andrew Szczerba who is a good blocker. 4* WR Derek Moye. 5* WR Chris Bell.
We return all three senior WRs and won't have an incompetent fuck playing at QB, we'll either have a dual-threat QB in Clark or the '06 top 5 QB in the nation Pat Devlin. Pat Devlin has passed for more yards than any other Pennsylvania H.S. QB to this day, against AAAA competition and is mobile. He was an Elite 11 QB participant, H.S. All-American and Player of the Year in '06 for PA AAAA.
Our DL is full of studs, even if you take away those with off-field concerns. We add a previously injured and surgically repaired 4* DE/DT Devon Still who is returning from an ACL injury before every getting to show what he can do. 4* DE Maurice Evans had 12.5 sacks at DE, over 50 tackles and 5 forced fumbles. 4* DE Aaron Maybin runs a sub 4.5 40 and is up to about 245-255 pounds as a pass-rusher. 4* Jerome Hayes was previously injured against Wisconsin in '07 and returns surgically repaired after an ACL injury. 4* DE Eric Latimore is catching on. 4* freshman DE Jack Crawford is a physical specimen.
4* DT Tom McEowen. 3* DT Ollie Ogbu & 3* DT Abe Koroma. 4* DT Jared Odrick returns after breaking out in '07 and suffering a broken ankle against Indiana.
LBs - Enough said. Sean Lee. 4* Chris Colasanti. 4* Andrew Dailey. 4* Michael Zordich. 4* Michael Mauti. 4* Mike Yancich. 4* Nathan Stupar. 4* Bani Gbadyu.
CB/S - 5* CB AJ Wallace is going to finally start. 4* ATH/DB/RB Lydell Sargaent will likely remain at the other CB spot. 4* Chaz Powell is either S/CB and ran a verified 4.44 40. 4* S/DB freshman D'Anton Lynn [check him out on YouTube] will likely be the nickel CB. 4* S Nick Sukay will
so i'm going to the blue & white game at penn state (I'll be in state college for work that weekend). any particular request for ridiculous photo opportunities?
may i suggest a 'Harvard: the Michigan of the East' shirt? it got me some funny looks a few summers ago when i stopped to check out the stadium & the museum.
LOST, no one cares about [_______] State U.
and boren will not be transferring to osu... he'd have to sit out 2 years.
LOST can you please stop being an incompetent homer and look at both teams rosters and stats before you proclaim PSU is the greatest football team in the history of man.
Michigan has more 4 and 5 star running backs than you have 4 and 5 star players on your entire roster. And if you thank YOUR D-Line is going to be good...
Hope you didn't spend too much time writing that LOST, because no one here cares.
Boren will have to pay his own way to play at OSU. I think when it's all said and done, he ends up at Cincy. Zach Boren will be a fine football player, but he's not as good as his brother. Maybe a 3.5 star type guy.
will back up Senior Anthony Scirrotto. 3* S Drew Astorino - PA AAA Player of the Year in '07 and football/basketball state-title winner will back up senior Tony Davis.
Out of all those players I mentioned only Evan Royster, Anrew Quarless, 3 Senior WRs, Chris Bell, Jared Odrick, Maurice Evans, Sean Lee, Bani Gbadyu, AJ Wallace, Lydell Sargaent, Anthony Scirrotto, and Tony Davis have seen time that can even be considered close to significant. Most haven't even beat out the players in front of them.
I look forward to a Joe Paterno coached Penn State beating the living shit out of UM, and then complete domination when a new HC with competent offensive philosophies and actual assistant's who recruit take over.
My score prediction, and I will return after the '08 game is played:
UM - 6
Penn State - 38
spring game closed to public. wtka.
there is simply no place to hold open practice.
John Kerr transferred from IU to OSU. Chris Rogers transferred from UM to PSU. Those are the only Big 10 intra-conference transfers I can think of.
Nobody here cares about PSU. But thanks for the comprehensive position by position breakdown. You think you'll beat UM this year, we get it.
@ DanK... (not that I think Boren is going to OSU), but why would he have to sit out TWO years... I understand the NCAA rule that says ONE year, but why two? just curious...
Holy crap, LOST needs a Sanka.
w/ all those great players, PSU must have had the #1 recruiting class every year for the last 3 years. absolutely amazing recruiting job by joepa. well, time to fold up the tents and give the B10 title to [_]SU. no one can compete w/ that.
someone is drunk already
practice at saline HS
LOL @ Chitown... Sanka? Does that even exist anymore? Do the young-ens even know what Sanka is? Plus, didn't Starbucks kill off all the grocery-store coffee brands... grin
I still think PSU will lose its spring game. Neither side will win.
Joe Pa's bowels will win.
I thought it was only one year out for intra-conference transfers, with no scholarship money available. Could be wrong, not about the scholarship part though. He'll have to pay his own way at any Big 10 school.
spring game at saline HS, that is...
and the B10 has a 2-yr intra-conf transfer rule. unless it's changed the last year or 2.
I'll be breaking down the EMU Eagles, position by position. And I heard the spring game couldn't be held at Rynearson because the Eagles are using the stadium that day- for keeping it real.
@Jim Harbaugh Scramble:
Hey buddy, I am still here, but admittedly a bit more of a lurker these days than a poster. It is good that my absence was noted!
Basically I have disappeared because Barwis came over, read me the riot act and said stop spending so much time on that blog site and get your fucking ass in shape.
So, I have been at the gym, running through the snow in the woods, anything to get that Barwis off my back. Its paying off, though, and I am learning new swear words every day. Perhaps I will combine those words and Boren and make a sentence!?!?!
Seriously, though, I have no comment really on recruiting ( i think the hullabaloo is a bit overblown and our friend TP is setting himself up as the most overrated recuirt this side of jimmah), there has not been a whole lot on my mind regarding hockey (just want to watch quietly and not jinx what I think would be a much needed championsip right now for the entire athletic program) and, well, basketball has not been a hot topic around these parts.
I love college hoops as much as football, so I have been following that sport. Alas, my alma mater flat out imploded post-Sampson scandal and now I have to endure another coaching search with the teams I follow. Not sure I have the stomach for that. Over at the Indiana blog community it is like our community over here circa November/December, except instead of jumping off the ledge at the mere mention of the name Ferentz, my fellow Hoosiers are threatening hari kari when names like Stallings are brought up. Many say the school should just swipe Matta from UOSU. Unrealistic, but yet funny as chit if it happens.
But, nobody cares about IU back here. Lets get back to breaking down our suddenly anonymous O-Line, hockey's chances and baseball talk anyone!?!?!
Oh, and despite my absence lately on these boards, I am still plan on doing a MgoblogHead tailgate party for a game next year, perhaps the opener.
In Boren's honor, I will call it the "fucking, shit kicking, cheer your ass off bitch, 2008 mgobloghead tailgate blowout."
Go Blue!
We'd never give Boren a release to transfer to OSU, hence the 2 years. If I recall, you have to sit out two years if you transfer to a school without a release, and if you transfer within the Big Ten... no scholarship.
I think if one good thing came out of Boren's defection and the subsequent comment thread, it's that we now know that 3* S Drew Astorino - PA AAA Player of the Year in '07 and football/basketball state-title winner will back up senior Tony Davis.
fear no more, btb is here to blog:
losing boren is a loss. anyone who thinks we are better off b/c we lost a top lineman is crazy. however, you have to be realistic with a program in transition like ours, especially with it being so completely different than before. RR is cutting the fat from the team and boren happened to be part of that. and there may be more reasons behind that (personal) but still, with respect to his dad being a legacy and younger brother prospect really, really liking michigan it is odd to say the least that Boren is leaving the program.
But be realistic, next year we won't be great, and the year after that we may not be that good. But we are transitioning and WILL be great. I also think the overuse of 'those who stay will be champions' is a bit overkill but that line is part of what makes our program what it is. and with that motto engrained in our program's DNA, we got to stick to it. strip the fat, whoever can't hack it can go. This is a new michigan but we still hold onto the same ideals. Go Blue.
at this point all we can do is look towards the upcoming season and hope RR & co. get great recruits.
Boren. What a fat-ass pussy. Couldn't hack a few more weights, a few more runs, and not being allowed to stuff himself silly on fried foods at the training table (I worked at South Quad; I've seen what used to go on). Sucks to lose him, but man, what a freaking pussy. Didn't he know that football was a physical sport? I guess he just thought that loser Gittelson would be around forever and would just keep letting him eat his feelings all year.
Is this a Notre Dame board??? "All of our previous recruits suck. Its the last coaches fault for bringing them in. Our new offensive wizard will save us." You have become what you hate.
It's kind of a shame that Lloyd let everyone get soft in his latter years. Boren was upset about having to run to the huddle and be in shape? He doesn't like being yelled at during practice? Gimme a break.
Just out of curiousity - I know that we hate Boren now and everything, and have a huge Barwis-boner, but did anything official ever come out that said "Boren is leaving because he didn't like the work-outs"? Everything that's been published has suggested that he was doing phenomenally at the workouts.
Boren was upset about having to run to the huddle and be in shape?
Where was this reported?
@Gambler:
You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to strength and conditioning and nutrition. You are incorrect on both of your statements. I'll leave it at that.
I think that I am not that worried about Penn St. Yes, we play in Happy Valley and their defense is always pretty tough. Our defense is also going to be very good, though. If RR's offense can at least click, then we should be able to stay ahead of the Nittany Lions. I would definitely expect a low-scoring affair no matter who wins. I just don't know how good Penn St is at defending against the spread offense. They struggled against Indiana and J Leman U, but IIRC they return much of their defense.
But then again, it's still the fucking off-season.
FWIW, everything I read suggested that Boren was a quiet, reserved person. He wasn't a yeller or a screamer - maybe even nerdy. Would it be a shock that if you take a reserved kid, and have him coached by a more vocal, screaming (we all saw the Barwis video) staff, that he doesn't enjoy himself nearly as much?
How about this - maybe immobile linemen like Boren don't work in RR's offensive system. tUOS linemen are cut in the Boren mold and they may very well add Boren to their stable of hicks (Hickerington???). So, if these linemen don't support a mobile QB in an open spread offense, how well will they support TP?
To me, this is the biggest reason TP to tUOS was a mistake - immobile linemen who'll block for only the first 5 yards of a run. RR knows the system better and knows which athletes (OL) will work. Sounds likely he didn't see Boren working... And the F-bomb thing too!
@jamie mac,
I'd talk baseball but every game lately seems to be getting postponed. We've played one of our last five games. I'm not sure how excited I can get for IPFW today either (not that I'll be able to watch/listen, long drive today. Hopefully this weekend will be nice for the Iowa Big10 home opener series.
bigtenhardball had a great recap of the home opener at ray fisher stadium at the wilpon baseball complex though
ColsWolverine - you're right, Troy Smith and Todd Boeckman have had no success scrambling behind OSU lines.
Also, who said Boren was going to OSU?
Freep:
But Boren told much of the story 10 days earlier, following the team's first spring practice. He cited then the change in the offense and the grueling nature of the first workout.
He also mentioned the difficulty the offensive linemen had constantly running back to the line of scrimmage in the no-huddle offense.
"We didn't know what to expect," Boren said that day. "A lot of screaming and yelling, a lot different, but we'll get used to it. It'll just take time."
FearTheVest,
1) We don't have any new recruits to gloat about.
2) We haven't gone 3-9 after getting a top-ten recruiting class.
Where was this reported?
After the first open practice, Boren was quoted as saying that "running" (more like jogging) to the line was a change from the previous regime. Nowhere did he hint that he didn't like it. So either: 1. he didn't like the swearing, 2. he didn't like the running, 3. he was kicked off the team or 4. nobody's talked to him and we don't know the real story.
I'll go with 4.
Fear the Vest,
That's our basketball board. Go See UMHoops.
Tommy Amaker is evil.
Anon,
I agree it is hard to talk baseball with the postponements and all that.
Will there be any tv coverage for baseball.....big ten network, maybe?
Tiger Talk is acceptable as well :)
Someone made a good point about Bo losing a lot of players during his first year. That's why he put up the "Those Who Stay Will Be Champions" sign.
Th reason that Gittleson's program was so grueling in 1969 was because pizza wasn't as good then and neither was the weed*, which you need to smoke a lot of to be able to eat two pizzas every night.
*Not that I would know. It's just that the scare videos say that weed today is 3-4 times more potent. I don't know. I would ask Willie Nelson and see what he thinks.
And Bo won lots of National Championships!
Vest...Go Fuck Yourself!! Seriously!
@ ninja -
Wasn't it Pat Massey who ate the pizzas?
jamie mac,
yea there will be some BTN coverage. I know the Minnesota series is all on there. I think we have 7 games to be aired. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the OSU games makes it on ESPN 2 again. Its been on there the last two or three years. I don't know if the BTN will trump it though.
http://www.bigtennetwork.com/spo...ll-TV-
times.asp
Looks like we've got
4/18 vs State
5/9-5/11 all four @ Minnesota
5/19 vs Northwestern
And hopefully we host the tournament. I'll be watching Indiana @ Penn State on Blue-White Weekend. Their new stadium is a split venture with the Pittsburgh Pirates Single A short season team. It apparently is an amazing stadium, really close to Beaver Stadium
Under Carr, the players were always at Scorekeepers, smoking cigars and binge drinking. The program under RRod and Barwis is clearly stricter with a focus on S&C.
My friend's g/f was at Skeeps once when Mallett spilled a beer all over her when attempting to grab her ass.
The new system is a good wake up call for the program which seems to have been un-Bo-like.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see others dropping out as well, but as long as the best conditioned players are on the field, I couldn’t care less.
This is not good. no, its not the end of the world, but its not good. One of the things I liked about lloyd was that we didn't have many defections of key players. And he tended to use the threat of transfer papers as a motivational tool. Maybe RR will do that in the future, but right now it feels like slash and burn.
Stupid rumor on the internets is that boren was offended by the constant cursing. (obviously take with a mountain of salt) uhhhh....okay... if true, which I can't believe it is, then this has to be a defection of 'weiss'ian caliber.
as far as next year, heres what I think of our odds of winning:
60% Utah (first game and uhh, last year)
100% Miami, OH
85%@ Notre Dame
20% Wisconsin
20% Illinois
100% Toledo
50% @PSU (they should beat us, but WE OWN, PENN STATE)
30% MSU
60% @Purdue
60% @Minnesota
50% NW
5% @OSU
That looks like a 7-5 season that could swing to 8-4 with a lot of luck, or more likely 6-6. And I think 4-8 is a real possibility with only 3 gimmee's (and I'm counting ND, not utah as a gimmee) if we catch an injury bug.
So here's praying for RR and Dual Threet to be awesome and for Barwis, Mike Barwis, to prevent a rash of injuries that have plagued the last few years. I think the best we can hope for is 9-3 and a bowl win, but I'm not betting on it.
I will bet you 9 billion dollars that the football players will still drink and party.
1. Unless you have inside information, stop saying Boren quit because of the new strength and conditioning program. As far as I know, nobody knows for sure. Maybe he had family issues. Maybe he's afraid the new coaches won't help him get to the NFL. You're jumping to conclusions with absolutely no evidence to back you up.
2. I think it's funny that any PSU fan would come here to talk shit. No matter who's left on each team's roster, PSU hasn't beaten Michigan since I was in high school. And I've since graduated, graduated from college, and I'm a few years into my career. PSU's incoming recruits probably don't remember the last time PSU beat UM.
I will raise you chitown to eleventy billion dollars. and thats not even a number... not yet...
The simple fact is this: Justin Boren committed to play for a completely different coaching staff than the existing one. There is one person left, and that if Fred Jackson who, as a RB coach, it is safe to say doesn't interact with Boren ever. Clearly, if he committed to play for them, Boren liked them.
They're gone. There are completely different coaches with new schemes, personalities, and demands. You didn't choose to play for these people people, and you didn't choose to play in these schemes.
Isn't it possible that you just don't like the new people? The new plays? Why does that make him an asshole, or a pussy, or whatever?
Ha, what person don't eat Pizza, NO 1 knows for sure why he left, just that his Dad came up to talk with him and he went home with his Dad, and of course his Dad played under BO, so had to be a good reason, so i wish him the best.
Ok, I know times have changed and this isn't 1969, but I thought players were still restricted from going to the bars. I read that Bacon book and under Bo if a player was even caught at the bar, drinking or not, they were automatically suspended for the next game. Could we suspend Mallett from everything for life?
FYI... saw Braylon and Michael Phelps at Brown Jug two weeks ago. Looks like Braylon has a fetish for the Indian ladies.
How crazy is it that there have been 3 no hitters already in D1? All three came within the last 10 days. That's nuts
agreed chitown
the boren bashing is ridiculous..we dont know why he left and until we do its insane to call him names and speculate.
Ok, I know times have changed and this isn't 1969
Shoulda stopped there.
In that case Bo's Lesson's clearly aren't lasting.
Magnus:
I have lived under seven different rooves in three different cities since the Nittany Cubs last beat Michigan.
Too funny that they are talking trash. But, at least they're not whining about the refs. Yet.
of course his Dad played under BO, so had to be a good reason, so i wish him the best.
Because not only does everyone who ever played for St. Bo always make the right decision, but there children do, too!
I agree with your basic point, that we shouldn't criticize Boren, but...geeze.
Buck Foren!
OF COURSE the program doesn't run today as Bo ran it. He coached 20 fucking years ago! Do you want nothing but dives as our offense? Is WHAM still on the radio?
@ BlueSeoul ... interesting assessment...
I agree with your Utah number because it's the first game. Which is NOT to say that Utah is equivalent to Purdue and MINN (your other 60%s...)
Agree with your assessment re: Miami, ND and Toledo. And basically agree re: Wiscy and tOSU.
However, think the 20% is way too low for Illinois. In fact, I'd give it something more in the 60% range of a Michigan win. But, admittedly, it's all guesses at this point... but IL lost its best offensive weapon.
Agree with you on PSU (and also Magnus' point).
Finally, not sure I agree that either MSU or NW are respectively as low as you guess... but, NW did give a hard game last year and MSU is, well, kinda pissed off more so than usual after Hart's "little brother" comment... it won't be forgotten for this season.
I would be stunned if it was a 4-8 year; honestly, just can't see the bowl streak getting broken... Remember Weis' first year was good. So, RR has the Carr recruits and training to at least "coast" on...
anyway, my thoughts for today...
If people think that the game passed Lloyd Carr by, then Bo is like the family dog in National Lampoon's vacation who they tie to the side of the car, then falls out of his leash.
That's a funny way to look at it... I've lived under 5 different roofs in 4 different cities in 2 different states.
I don't have a problem with most Penn Staters. I went to one of their games last season and everyone was very friendly and they know how to tailgate.
But still...it's been a decade.
I'm not talking about the offensive schemes, I'm talking about the personal lives of the players.
Of course the program needed an overhaul because the offense was incredibly predictable, boring and Penn State-like. I just don't want to see players like Trent teaching players like Warren how to bong a beer, take a shot and smoke pot in one single inhale. -Beerfest reference
i'm willing to bet that the last time psu beat mich, 95% of this board hadn't had sex yet, 75% of the board couldn't drive legally, and 10% were still in diapers.
Too funny that they are talking trash. But, at least they're not whining about the refs. Yet.
jamie mac | 03.26.08 - 10:29 am |
my PSU friends still say that the refs handed us the 05 game..they dont stop whining
You think the level of control that coach is able to exert over his players hasn't changed since Bo? You're dealing with college kids, who, I'm afraid, have a higher propensity to WANT to do things like bong a beer, take a shot and smoke pot in one single inhale. It happens everywhere - it's not a sign of a lack of institutional control.
Hey...hey guys..
please no be mean to me. i...i just pee in trough and saw a sad cat, and...and i just feel real bad bout it.
at home people kinda mean to me, and my friends no care too much...i...i just need your support please...
p..please talk to me
i need you..
@DanK. Given the fact that puts me in the other 5%, you just made me feel old. And I only turn 30 next week.
chitownblue you are such a homosexual meanie, it makes me real sad.
dank, why are you so hostile towards me. i want you to apologize this instant
south875, hey wanna take a trip together. i know this real nice place in cincinati
@wednesday
yeah, illinois lost their best rusher, but they've still got better recruits coming in than players they lose overall. 20% is probably too low. NW is maybe a bit low also, hopefully we're gelling together as a team by then, but NW has beaten us as much as anyone in the last 13 years or so. I'm as full of hope as anyone, and once we see what the team can do that first game, all the odds will change.
If we could beat OSU I'd be happy with 6-6 and a bowl bid.
blueseoul
you so dumb and obsessive it kinda funnie.
Wasup guys, how yall doing this morning?
@dank 1994? right? Junior year Highschool. Could drive, but i was driving the family 'grocery getter' so therefore... no sex.
this thread isn't going anywhere.
Happy Birthday chitown. I turn 30 next week also. I plan on banging an 18 year old in a minivan to reestablish my virility. At least that's what the guy on here a couple days ago said to do.
Where did Artis Chambers transfer from?
blueseoul
you immoral ape like Korean Punk, i'm going to go to your country and eat up all your gong ji bai, and then watch you comb and obsess over your hair for 4 hours because you are freaking narcissistic.
all koreans are!
actually i think they beat us in 94, 95, and 96 after we won the 1st in 93.
Where did Artis Chambers transfer from?
A high school in Indiana. In other words, he didn't. Sat out with an academic eligibility issue most of last year.
DanK: Yeah! I am in the 5 percent! Of course, that just makes me, uh, old!! Not too old, though, to be a . . . .crap, I cant remember that nickname never to be mentioned ever again about those of us who are on this site. Probably just as well!
1996? sophmore year of collge=plenty of sex.
@ MRG
Oh. Somehow had it in my head that he transferred from IU. But my head likes to play tricks on me. Like that time it told me I could jump from one picnic table to another . . . but then gave me a broken arm instead. Bastard.
you guys are idiots. i'm going to go outside and eat some grass.
not sure if anyone brought this up yet or not, but....
Wouldn't it be a good idea if Lloyd Carr was brought in to talk to the kids on the team, reaffirm his support for RR and try to boost the morale?
If Carr is just sitting there in silence as players bail that is actually saying a lot, in my opinion.
If Carr is just sitting there in silence as players bail that is actually saying a lot, in my opinion.
Operative word is "if".
Also, if, as the Rivals people are constantly alluding, this merely came down to Boren flat out not liking Rodriguez/Barwis/etc., then there's not much a Lloyd Carr "vote of confidence" would do.
I don't really want carr too close to daily football operations. he should be available to RR if RR asks him to do something, but otherwise this is RR's ship now, he's the big kahuna, el capitan, numero uno, the big cheese ... you guys never saw 'airplane 2' did you?
Anyhoo, I think it would be great to have lloyd working in some kind of recruiting capacity. Imagine you're some H.S. kid and Lloyd comes to your school to give a pep talk about climbing mount everest or being a 1920's boxer.... well you know what I mean.
So you want Carr to be JoePa circa 1996? Something tells me he will probably do that upon occasion, but who knows if RR likes that idea at all.
Some people are so upset with Carr for the perceived "failure" of the program in his last 3 to 4 years as head coach that they will, literally, find a way to blame every possible thing on him. Including when his recruits leave the program under the new regime.
Transfer rules chart attached. Looks like Boren could play at another Big Ten school without scholarship after sitting out a one-year NCAA restriction.
Since all we can do is speculate...
This is from the Free Press:
"The first-year U-M coach refused to discuss specifics, saying he talks only about guys who play for Michigan.
But Boren told much of the story 10 days earlier, following the team’s first spring practice.
That day he cited the change in the offense and how grueling the first workout was.
He said he had early thoughts about the process and the difficulty of the new conditioning program and how difficult it was for the offensive linemen having to run constantly back to the line of scrimmage in the no-huddle offense.
“We didn’t know what to expect, a lot of screaming and yelling, a lot different, but we’ll get used to it,” Boren said that day. “It’ll just take time.”
The departure was not a shock after those comments, but Boren also had a strong affinity for Michigan because his father Mike played for the Wolverines under Bo Schembechler."
Unless I'm dense (and I AM), isn't he basically saying he couldn't hack it?
some people want it both ways: they want the team to work harder , to be in better condition, to run a quick paced offense that asks a lot out of players in terms of conditioning. and, at the same time, they dont want to lose any of the pre-existing "talent." but these values aren't mutually exclusive. attirtion is going to happen. guys are going to leave for "greener" pastures. change sometimes requires a step back. many of you know that im not the biggest Bo guy, but i think we can look at his transition period as an example of what to expect in the future. 40 years of a single regime is a logn time, casualties will obviously ensue. patience is important. instead of belly aching over who we've lost, look at all the talent we have. look at all the talent coming in this summer. michigan football will be more than alright. so, for the love of god, show some patience.
URL:
http://graphics.fansonly.com/
con...ictransfers.pdf
Kind of hard to show patience when there is nothing else going on football-wise. Unfortunately, at this time of year, everything gets put under a microscope.
First, chitownblue, spare me the sarcasm. I know what Bo accomplished as a coach; I don't need you to correct me. My point was that Bo beat the "invincible" Buckeyes and went to the Rose Bowl in his first year even after so much attrition. Maybe you got too caught up with demonstrating how ignorant everyone is.
Tim, I guess I just get sick of the "those who stay will be champions" shit. It's pablum, and meaningless. Saying it after someone departs is meaningless - it doesn't make it fact.
The statement suggests that the Michigan program is this unalterable ship of destiny that will arrive at a given point regardless of the actions of the people taking part. Michigan isn't this unstoppable force, and won't win games by virtue of putting on the helmet and jersey. Michigan is good because the coaches and players have made it good - not vice versa. Losing good players makes the program less likely to be good.
And I guess that it's even more annoying when repeated because Bo Schembechler said it. And Bo Schembechler never won a championship. Yet we repeat it as if it's some sort of truism? There have been boatloads and boatloads of those that have "stayed" and not won championships.
Off my soapbox, because, Tim, you are a voice of reason in the forest of insanity that is this board, and I don't want to fight you.
Well, there were Big Ten championships... just not the big one.
jeez, I'm not bashing Carr so calm down. I'm just saying that RR should ask Lloyd to drop by the locker room and say a few encouraging words to make sure the existing players don't lose morale. Anything that helps the kids persevere is a GOOD thing. They all love and respect Lloyd. Some encouraging words by him at this point in time, after one of your team's leaders bails, would be invaluable. Right? Then Carr reced back tothe shadows again. But why not use Carr's influence for something positive right now? I've seen a prominent player leaving cause a domino effect. RR CANNOT let that happen.
Call me crazy homer, but i predict we go undefeated and win the championship this year.
chitown,
I always love your posts and perspectives, and while I agree that the Bo love can be over the top, especially during in game threads and post game bitch fests, i feel I should point out something.
His focus was beating the Bucks and winning the league during that famous off season before his first year. Thats what he was referring to. As far as I am concerned, Bo came through on his prophecy he told the kids that first year about staying to become a champion.
In that light, plenty of his players over his career stayed and became a champion.
Some of them actually became rose bowl champions as well. not many of them, but some of them!!
I don't think that Lloyd had the tightest hold over his players, but I don't think that he needed to. There were players who stepped out of line, but he wasn't coaching the Vols either. I'll explain why Lloyd was not UM's Phil Fulmer.
First, no matter what Jim Carty tells us, the players had to go to class. Maybe not the hardest classes, but that's besides the point: they have to go to class at Michigan and do the requirements. I think that Lloyd also tended to recruit players who were good guys e.g. Hart, Henne, Woodley, Alan Branch, etc., so there ends up being fewer troublemakers. But most importantly, Lloyd is a good role model and father figure. Many of his players love him and tried their best for him.
Is he to blame for Mallett and Manningham? Sure. He's responsible as a coach. But overall his system seemed like one that gave players as much freedom as they deserved. UM is not FSU, where Bowden tries to handle troubled players (and usually fails at it).
20% chance of beating Illinois? Reason cited because of their recruits(outside of Regis Benn, we've obliterated them the past two seasons in that regard), the majority of whom wont play? No Mendenhall? Juice is still the QB? All American hero and patriot J Leman gone?
Bwahahaha.
I don't think that would be a good idea. This is Rodriguez's team.
It IS a good idea to bring in past coaches to talk to a team, to give them an idea of the tradition, respect for their predecessors, etc.
However, at this point in the transition, I think it would look like Rodriguez is panicking and can't handle the loss of a player. It would also make it seem like the loss of this one player is a huge blow. I don't think that's the message you want to send to the team.
(By the way, I think it IS a huge blow, but I wouldn't ever say that if I was the head coach.)
we had some 35 years where every graduating class went to at least one rose bowl except for the years I think we hit a drought after 1997 for a few years but we won co-championships in that time. So 'those who stay WILL be champions' is pretty true, as long as you are talking about the bigten.
Those who stay might be Big Ten champions!
Bo said "Those who stay will be Champions" because he didn't have a single player in his 21 years who stayed 4 years and didn't win a Big Ten Championship. Getting a Big Ten Championship ring is a huge deal. chitownblue, if you don't recognize or respect that, then fuck off.
Okay now I'm off my soap box.
OK, I'll give you that he was likely talking about Big 10 Championships. My first point, that Michigan Football is not some program of destiny that wins by virtue of being "Michigan Football" stands.
Caup '91,
I would not be surprised if Lloyd does indeed talk to this team at some point. There seems to be a ton of mutual respect between LC and RR, and I could see the new coach bringing him in for a good old college pep talk at some point. Of course, thats if LC is not travelling the world or something.
Everybody is suddenly freaking out. I must have been asleep for a long time. Are we losing to Utah at halftime already, or what!?!?!
Winning the Big Ten championship nowadays is akin to finding a ring in a Cracker Jack box, so I think champion has to be defined by BCS titles from now on. Sorry, old timers.
Bo didn't care really about the national championship. I know that sounds strange, but it is true. I ran track at UM when Bo was AD and talked to him about it once. He said if we win the Big Ten and the Rose Bowl, that is all that matters. The national championship was not a real championship, in his eyes, anyway.
Wasn't Bo's Rose Bowl Record 2-1,987,673?
Huss, you are wrong. Getting a Big Ten ring is a proud accomplishment. How many do you have?
If Boren is going to OSU, I don't think he needs to worry about the Big 10 Championship part.
George Cantor described the mind set in society, when Bo came to the University of Michigan.
"In an era when we were all being told to do our own thing, whatever that was suppose to mean, and when anyone who advocated a disciplined life was regarded as a fascist, here was this guy who refused to bend. Who was uncompromising in his belief that doing things the tough way was the only right way."
Jim Betts, quarterback in 1970, remembered
"We must have started with about 150 guys when he came here. After spring practice we were down to 75 or 80. A lot of players resented Bo because he was so damn demanding. But it was a strong group who stayed."
Rich Caldarazzo, offensive lineman, 1969, described Bo's training of the team as:
"He beat the crap out of us those first few months of 1969. The walk-ons were dropping like flies. We had to run a mile in under six minutes, jump the stadium stairs on one leg, then jump upstairs on one leg with a teammate on your back. We hated it and we hated him."
Dave Rentschler, former M Club president, 1978-79, was quoted by George Cantor as saying:
"These were someone else's players. Bo didn't recruit them. He had to find out in a hurry who he could count on and who he could trust. He set out to make sure the others left. That's why he put up the famous sign: 'Those Who Say Will Be Champions.' Everyone who ever played for a Bo always remembers that sign."
Huss, you are wrong. Getting a Big Ten ring is a proud accomplishment. How many do you have?
3. I'm not even being snarky.
Michigan has won 42 Big Ten Championships. That's approximately one every three years.
Based on that stat, I wonder what team has won the highest percentage of its conference's championships?
I'm just curious where Michigan would fit in compared to Oklahoma or USC... I would have to think that Michigan is very near the top, if not at the very top.
If Bo coached in the Pac-10 would he even be over .500?
I don't need that to be explained to me. You are wrong about one thing: we are the good guys. We are the CFB equivalent of the Hurricanes soccer team, and the Buckeyes are the bad guys who oppose us. The balance has shifted toward the dark side in recent years.
About "TWSWBC," I was just mentioning the story behind it because it's an interesting random fact, that's all. I knew that from the HBO documentary. I was not using it to offer commentary or opinion of those who quit. I only comment on individual cases.
ok, so justin fucking boren leaves the team and people are bitching like the next coming of charles woodson just jumped ship. news flash: an otherwise shitty offensive line with one seasoned player is not going to be any more effective than a shitty offensive line with no seasoned players. ya feel me?
I don't remember the Pac-10 being historically stronger than the Big-10, dude?
Blue in PA is absolutely correct. The Mythical National Title is a beauty contest and a joke, where two teams get voted to play against each other. Until we have a playoff, the Conference Championships are the only ones settled on the field.
chitown,
I really do agree with what you are saying. But, Michigan is a program of destiny. Thats really the only way I can explain the following results: Miami, 1988; Colorado, 1994; NW/PU, 2000; App St, 2007; and like every ND game from the 1980s.
Perhaps not the destiny you were refering to. Our ship came in in 1997 and it will come in again we just have to keep on keeping on.
caup, no YOU are wrong. Ha. Take that.
Seriously, it's so easy to rile you "THE TEAM THE TEAM THE TEAM!" guys up.
I have a lot of Big Ten championship rings. And gold medals. And bowling trophies. And statues erected in my honor. What do you have? You're just a woman with a small brain.
@jamie mac, we're going to throw that back at you if we really are losing to utah at halftime...jk
@ big gay heart
Boren is a good player. Period. The dropoff from Boren to _________________ (insert McAvoy, Wermers, Zirbel, whoever) is large.
I'm not saying it's the difference between 2-10 and a Big Ten championship, but do you remember how shitty our RG situation was last year? Well, now we have that same hole multiplied times two.
You're absolutely right, Michigan football has been great because of the players and coaches and not the other way around.
Those who stay... however, isn't just words. It's use has become a bit clishe'd as of late, however it was introduced by a coach who knew a thing or two about football. Bo introduced it because he knew he didn't have the most talent in the world to work with, but if we out-worked and out-conditioned every other team we would have success. A-lot of "talented" guys didn't like the idea of working harder than anyone else in the country and so they left.
The tradition of working harder than any other program in the country has been gone from the program in recent years, however RR and Barwis are bringing back this old tradition from someone who knew something about football.
All I'm saying is that being Michigan doesn't guarantee the team shit. Having good players makes the team good, not wearing the uniform or the cool helmets. The whole "We are MICHIGAN, we will do without you," is tantamount to putting one's head in the sand.
And yes, I think the o-line would have blown with or without Boren. But I'd still rather have him.
So caup has concluded Big Ten title>stupid meany poopoo faced AGGGH WE MUST HAVE PLAYOFF national title.
That's insanity in its truest form.
bgh,
I respectfully disagree. If our o-line situation is as dire as it is, we can't afford to lose even one good o-lineman.
You're an asshole.
Its fairly simple fellas, Justin Boren didn't like guys in Wizard hats
Magnus: but if the other guys on the line arent any good/dont have the neccesary experience, one individual, no matter how good, isnt going to be able to change that fact. i mean, correct me if im wrong, but for an offensive line to really work, doesnt every player need to be at least competent at his position? its like if 90% of a dam is in comprised of stout concrete (haha) but 10% is crumbling, the dam is still pretty much worthless, no?
I couldn't resist. I saw that I had written "respectfully disagree" so I just had to add that asshole bit.
And as for the Big Ten title being settled on the field...er, we don't even have a title game - so how can you conclude you're truly the Big Ten champion?
Boy, that sure would put a damper on all those "co-championships" we've racked up recently.
BlueSeoul,
If we are down at half at Utah, I will be the apologist in Section 14 telling everyone to calm the F down, that RR has it covered and we will kick ass in the second half.
@ caup '91
I agree that a playoff would be more consistent at producing a clear champion.
However, national title-caliber teams usually get voted in to play in the national championship game. It's not exactly a joke. It's just not perfect.
However, a playoff system isn't perfect, either. Nothing is. I mean, can anyone here actually claim that the New York Giants were a better team this past season than the New England Patriots?
They split the "season series." Each team had one win. It just so happens that more value was placed on the second game between those teams and, therefore, a 10-6 team was declared better than a 16-0 team.
Perfection doesn't exist.
Part of the vaunted Barwis training regimen includes beer bonging snake oil.
BGH - in all fairness, we had 2 spots on the O-line that were absolutely miserable last year, but we were still occasionally effective. I can't name 1 spot on the o-line at this point that I can really see as not being a liability.
tim wayman, i wanna make sweet love to you. errr...
You guys are taking this too seriously.
Watch this video, it will lighten the mood.
Trust me
http://youtube.com/watch?v=36Eedk9iCXE
Hilarious
Again, when I mentioned Those Who Stay, I was just sharing a random fact behind it. IIRC from the HBO documentary, he put up the sign because players were leaving during training. I am not commenting on the current situation, even though it is a great slogan and I like it more than the hyped "Play Like A Champion Today."
The O-line is overrated in the spread offense anyway. All you need is a QB that's able to make quick decisions, like Threet. If this were last year I'd be worried.
@ big gay heart
Obviously, better players all across the line will make a better offensive line.
However, at the beginning of the year last year, Long and Kraus were solid on the left side while Boren, RG du jour, and Schilling kinda sucked on the other side.
And Mike Hart still ran for 100+ yards every game.
With Boren at LG and maybe another guy stepping up at LT (O'Neill, Schilling, Ortmann, whoever), we would at least have a solid side of the line to run behind in crucial situations.
Our ONLY returning starter is a RT who is a redshirt sophomore and got owned most of last year. I still think Schilling is going to be good, but he's not exactly proven.
chitown, thats my point, though. 90% liability, 10% relability (with Boren) for all intents and purposes == 100% liability. opposing teams arent stupid, they can create mismatches that either wholly attack points of weaknesses while minimizing points of strength OR, at the very least, margnialize your areas of strength.
MGoMatt -- like the quick decision to eat the ball or throw it out of bounds?
bgh,
Do you at least want to do it respectfully?
+1 to Garp.
I would rather have a 2 star chiseled by Barwis than a 4 star rounded by Gittleson any day.
Eat the ball? Throw it out of bounds? Reminds me of Mr. Mallett
In case you guys haven't been paying attention to the Detroit Lions for the last 1,000 years, a good offensive line is very important.
Most teams that win championships (college or pro) have very good offensive lines.
also, to make this clear, even with Boren, the left side of the line was by no means going to be stout. there were still a bunch of question marks. Long and Kraus were both very good. Boren was decent (not on either Long or Kraus's level) and there would still be a huge question mark re: the guy playing next to him.
A poiled primadonna levaes and RR has run him out of town. Our two best WR leave to go some shoddy league known as the NFL and its omigod no one wants to play for RR. Two overweight 5th year seniors do not come back and all of sudden, the team is bailing on RR. Now an admittedly very good OL leaves and Michigan will never be good again.
Give some credit to this coach's track record. He will build a good football team even if he did not inherit a team that will be good next year. Sometimes change requires sacrifice, and it is a small price to pay for putting our program on solid footing for the next 15 years.
Yes, it hurts to lose good players, but this program we have seen cannot be sustained simply by good players. Let Rodriguez do his job, no matter how painful in the short term, and I will bet that you will be happy with the rewards in the not so distant future.
Hey Guys I just thought of something
Talking about Boren is Borin'
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAAHAAHAAHAHHAHA
@ Nick Stadts
Tell that to Jake Long, arguably the greatest Michigan lineman in history (and a former 4-star).
Barwis has been at WVU working with 2-stars and I can't name a single one of their offensive linemen over the past few years.
So...ummm...you're wrong.
@BGH
I have a Maserati. You have Ford Pinto.
You have gas in your Pinto, I have none in the Maserati.
Is my car still "faster" than yours?
@ big gay heart
I personally believe that whoever plays LT (whether it's Ortmann or O'Neill) will be solid. If not in 2008, then in 2009. Boren played much better at guard than center, and I just have a good feeling about Ortmann.
(And it's pretty clear to everyone that O'Neill will be a stud at some point.)
Magnus,
Of course Long was amazing. Because of the recruiting power of Michigan we were able to get special athletes that WVU couldn't pull.
Despite having these amazing talents, we were still the team losing to Appy State and Oregon while a WVU line with no special talents was throttling Oklahoma. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.
You can't name a single one, yet they routinely paved the way for the nations top rushing team and a QB that was rarely, if ever, sacked.
They did have All American Dan Mozes just two years ago, by the way.
Magnus, you're missing the point. The Lions have had individually good O Linemen, but those guys were rendered ineffective by the fact that the rest of the line sucked. I'm not saying that Boren isnt a talented player, but rather, realistically speaking, one good offensive lineman wont change the fact that the rest of line has gaping holes in it. Boren staying/going wasnt goign to change the fact that our O Line was going to struggle in 2008 and i seriously doubt his departure will have a huge, tangible impact on its overall performance.
The spread is all about deception and decision making, not the O-line. All Michigan needs is a body on the line, the backfield will do the rest.
@Niagara Stole My Bike
I'm probably the only person on here that just LOL'd at that handle.
Niagara Stole My Bike!, i'll be pearlin my pinto regardless of what u is rollin in. thats just how i do. i do me.
Okay, okay...you win with your Dan Mozes argument.
He would totally kick the shit out of Jake Long, Jon Jansen, Jeff Backus, Maurice Williams, Steve Hutchinson, David Baas, Jon Runyan, Jumbo Elliott, Adam Kraus, etc.
MGoMatt,
Your commentary has lead me to conclude that an Oline is unnecessary and we should just snap the ball and MAKE PLAYS!
Relax, broseph. All those cuts and long runs you saw from Slaton at WVU were the result of tremendous pulling and zoning by the oline.
Anyone pay attention to the number of kids in this recruiting class that run a 4.4 fourty? Its more than our last four classes combined! Speed Speed Speed!!!!!!!!!!!
chotownblue,
damn. tip of the cap to you, sir. Three Big Ten rings? I'm impressed and jealous. I ran track for M from 88-90 and never sniffed a ring. Maybe thats why you don't think winning the Big Ten is that big of a deal? Because you did it 3 times. Well, it is a big deal and you were obviously a badass at whatever sport you played.
Let me re-state my o-line point. I'd rather have a full line of 2 stars chiseled by Barwis than a full line rounded by Gittleson that is dependent on 2 or 3 freak athletes.
Besides Lomas Brown, what good offensive linemen have the Lions had in the last 20 years? I'm not talking about 1st round draft picks, either. I'm talking about ones who, once they got to the NFL, could avoid penalties and could actually, you know, block the guy in front of them.
In other words, Damien Woody doesn't count.
I really wished Michigan scheduled WVU at some point in the last few years.
I want to how Rich Rod's spread option stacks up against Ron English's Defense, and how Lloyd's pro style stacks up against the spread D...though I realize the Def. cord is from Stanford. I'm still curious to see where they advantages/disadvantages lie.
It will show if the "speed" game is indeed better and effective against big ten defenses. I seriously doubt WVU speed could have beaten our defense in 2006-2007.
Michigan doesn't have trouble with the spread offense (look at little brother with stanton). Michigan D line simply gets confused when the pocket collapses and the QB has to scramble.
God damn you Magnus, let's just use Lomas as an example. He was good, the line was horrible, the only reason the Lions got any rushing yards was because the greatest running back ever was on his team.
I'm just saying that everyone's overreacting to Boren. Wasn't the right side of the O-line garbage last year anyway? Wasn't that the reason why we ran to the left every single time. He's not that good, rivals and everyone else overrated him and there will be a different cog to fill in for him. Boren wasn't NFL material.
Listing those players did what exactly? Show that Michigan has been an NFL pipeline...and WVU was nothing before RichRod came in? Awesome. And hey, in college terms, maybe Mozes WAS better than all those guys. Myself, I couldn't give a shit if Mozes never makes it onto an NFL team or if we dont produce another NFL linemen again...if we guys like him that excel in college and operate in the system like they're supposed to - Michigan will be much better off in the long run and we can be more proud of what our players do HERE as opposed to trying to cling on to their success in the pros.
Henne from here on out lets not bring up Ron English and his defense Vs any spread!
Michigan St. plays WVU, I think as early as 2009. Not sure though.
You're right, Michigan doesn't have any trouble with the spread.
And we don't have a Barry Sanders.
Which means we need all the good offensive linemen we can get.
MGoMatt, you're sinking deeper and deeper.
Overrated, didnt need him, we'll find someone else...you're all up on that blind homer vodka.
Mr Troy Smith
The only reason Michigan lost those games is because of a FEW plays that made a difference in the game.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Troy burned us on ever down. We had the lead for most of those games, but it was those few freak plays that cost us.
But Ron never learned from that.
And was anyone seriously comparing Boren to Long, Krauss, or any of the NFL caliber linemen Michigan has produced in the past?
We dont have a Barry Sanders?
May I introduce you to one Samuel Pendleton McGuffie esquire?
@ Huss
I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, a bunch of those guys became 1st and 2nd round picks.
But those guys were all solid in college, too. I mean, they won Big Ten Championships and a National Championship and helped Mike Hart become the all-time leading rusher and helped Chris Perry win the Doak Walker Award...
I know Rodriguez hasn't had a long career as a head coach and he's been handicapped by being at WVU, but what have his offensive linemen won him exactly, besides that one All-American?
asjkhfl;aHFL; Magnus, talking to you this morning is rough. My point was not that Boren sucked. He was pretty good, servicable at worst. But when every other position is a huge question mark, what difference does it make? None. The O Line encapsulates the team concept unlike any other position corp in football. Everybody needs to be decent. If not, weaknessses can and will be totally exploited. You think teams werent going to shift their top D-lineman away from Boren to create mismatches with crappier players? Come on now. And since when have we been raving about this guy? I remember wanting to kill him at several points last season.
Magnus... his linemen have won him BCS bowl games.
I'll take one of those over 1000 Doaks
@ Nick Stadts
Yes.
Boren was only a sophomore this past year. Long wasn't considered to be a future #1 caliber pick when he was in his second year, either.
I'm guessing that a vast majority of people thought Boren would be Michigan's next great offensive lineman.
Well, that may be so Magnus, but the fact of the matter is that crying over Boren leaving isnt going to change everything. Change has opportunity costs. Accept it don't.
@ big gay heart
You and I are going to have to agree to disagree. The entire Michigan offensive line was not solid last year. We had a solid left side of the line.
What did that produce? Mike Hart being on pace for 2,000 yards until he got injured, and a few 100-yard games by his backups when he was out.
Everyone sucked against OSU. I'll give you that.
Yeah it's nice to have dominant offensive linemen that are high draft picks... but where has that gotten us? 4 straight losses to tOSU.
I'm willing to try RR's way
Uh, what exactly did those linemen win for US? Since we're now arbitrarily swinging at air and concluding that Olinemen are "winning" things for teams now...West Virginia has been a helluva lot more successful than we have over the past 5 or 6 years. But since you can't name their starters thanks to their absence from Kiper's Big Board...they're obviously failures at life. Instead of 2-time winners of BCS games, numerous Big East titles, and (I think) the 3rd best winning percentage over the past half-dozen years? Yeah, right under those USC/Texas/Oklahoma types.
WVU's olinemen were just fine for what RichRod was trying to run. Let the scouts handle all of NFL slobbering. In college - and just college - I'm sure WVU has had as many, if not more, all-conference olinemen in recent years.
Yeah, I would have much preferred WVU's record as of late with no "great" linemen than our record with Long.
BlueSeoul just broke down the season the way I like to, so here are my subjective odds after his:
60% Utah (first game and uhh, last year)
***45%. Utah was good last year and has almost everyone back. Any win here would be great, and a close loss would probably be no shame. Predicted score (for the hell of it): Utah 20 UM 17
100% Miami, OH
***95%. With an offense as shaky as ours no game is certain. UM 28 Miami 10
85%@ Notre Dame
***65%. They'll be better, but their offense was *really* bad last year. Their defense will likely be mediocre, but that might be enough to shut our offense down. UM 20 ND 13
20% Wisconsin
***25% but only because we're at home. Running team with good defense = bad matchup. Wis 31 UM 10 (we start turning it over and it gets out of hand)
20% Illinois
***60%. Our defense handled them well last year when they had Mendenhall, and we'll be at home. UM 17 Ill 14
100% Toledo
***95%. UM 31 Tol 17
50% @PSU
***30%. If we win this one, it'll have to be something like 14-9 again. PSU 17 UM 10
30% MSU
***65%. They still have Ringer, but not much else. UM 24 MSU 21
60% @Purdue
***75%. Passing team with bad defense = the type of team we can beat. By this time, our offense should not be quite as craptacular. UM 28 Pur 20
60% @Minnesota
***90%. See above, but MN's defense was nonexistent last year and will still be bad. UM 31 Minn 17
50% NW
***85%. Another passing team with bad defense. UM 30 NW 21
5% @OSU
***5%. OSU 17 UM 0
That works out to 7.35 expected wins, so I'll predict 7-5 or 8-4. By the scores it ends up 8-4, but I think the probabilities are a better way to do it.
Didn't last year's WVU team prove a fast QB, RB and WRs are more important than the O-line in the spread?
What about the D? Who's first to drop out? My guess is Obi, just so the same argument at LB can arise.
One of Bo's philosophies that was demonstrated on the field against OSU in '69 is that it's better to have a group of mediocre talent that works harder than anyone else than have great talent who doesn't.
That in mind, if Bo was on this board, he'd say something like: Sure Boren was a talented kid, but I'd rather have a kid with half his talent who was willing to work his ass off... much like the o-linemen who are sticking it out with RR and Barwis right now.
I'm going to simplify this argument, since it's starting to go in 1,000 different directions:
Michigan's offensive linemen will be worse off without Boren. He was better than his backups will be. And with him on the team, we would be closer to filling the holes on the offensive line. Even if they wouldn't be a great offensive line in 2008, it could have been great in 2009 with:
LT: Ortmann (senior)
LG: Boren (senior)
C: Molk (redshirt sophomore)
RG: Barnum (sophomore)
RT: Schilling (redshirt junior)
Obviously, those are projections, but doesn't that line look pretty damn solid?
Now plug in a redshirt freshman at LG (such as Wermers or Mealer) and maybe you'll see a difference...
Here is my insanely simplistic theory:
1. Having good players helps the team be good.
2. Justin Boren was a good player.
3. Our team will be less good for not having Justin Boren than it would have been with him.
Agreed, chitown. That was my point.
Didn't last year's WVU team prove a fast QB, RB and WRs are more important than the O-line in the spread?
I hate to sound angry, I'm really not....but you seem to be fucking oblivous to the Olines contributions to the success of Slaton and White and every other skill player in a spread offense...or any frikken offense. They aren't running for their lives and making something out of nothing. They run zone reads and run right between the guard and tackle. Have you seen those holes? They just skip right through them and make it happen in the wide open field. How could you seriously come to such a conclusion?
You want to know what WVU would have done against M last season. Take a look at the Oregon game. The key would have been what the M offense did because the M defense was not going to stop WVU’s offense. If M finished drives like against FLA then they’d have a chance in a shoot out. If they got 300 yards in a half but turned it into 10 points like against Oregon then it would be a blow out. The 2006 D was the best defense against the run, by some metrics, in the last 50 years so they represent a bit of a statistical outlier. As far as stopping Stanton, Woodley did that by separating his shoulder. Otherwise, that first half was hideous.
I think there is ample reason to believe the Big Ten is well behind the times on offense and consequently defense (because of conference play.) Just look at how the vaunted OSU defense has struggled against spread the field mutli point of attack offenses in the last 2 championship games.
Nick Stadts,
That's Bullshit. Look at the teams that have been successful in the past 15 years - USC, LSU, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida St., Miami, Florida. What is the common denominator?
They have, hands down, the best recruiting classes. There are some programs that have out and under performed their recruiting, but there is still an insanely high correlation between average recruiting class rank and wins.
Chitown, Magnus: But how much better? I mean, jesus. You get one guy hitting his blocks and 4 guys not, how does that change things? It absolutely doesnt.
Gentleman:
Please, you guys need to realize that this team is gonna win NEXT YEAR, the coaching change was the best thing ever to happen at Michigan.
If anyone wants to leave then "get out" Boren was already complaining about the workouts being too tough.
I do not care where that guy goes just as long as he goes. You watch what happens with this team.
Bigger, stronger, faster, and most importantly smarter!!!!!!!!!!
Boren is a not smart.
When White went down the team was lost against a crummy Pitt team. If he were healthy, they would've dominated. If they had a good oline, they would've beaten pitt, but since the offense is dependent on the QB, they were screwed.
BGH - it's not like losing Justin Boren will bring us from an 8 or 9 win season to out of a bowl - I don't believe that. I merely think that the team would be better - for the next two years.
I love this quote:
"Boren is a not smart."
Pot, meet kettle.
Magnus,
What was one of those teams out-performing their recruiting rankings? WVU
Excellent coaching and hard work can compensate for lack of talent.
Now let's see what RR can do with top 10 recruiting classes (like he just got this year) with guys that want to be in his system.
More simple logic:
Guys buying into your system help the team.
Boren didn't buy into the system
Boren didn't help the team
MGoMatt...
Just wow. The Mountaineers lose their all-world and perfect spread QB, and you're blaming the inability of his raw/inexperienced(and I believe freshman) backup as a reason to knock the Oline. This is bad. If Michigan fans thought like you, they wouldn't be worried if every Olinemen left the program. Shit, who needs em! We just need Feagin to run around a little bit.
If WVU was a motivated team of less than stellar players achieving at a high level, what happens when the team is full of talented players achieving at a high level?
What happens when RR and Barwis raise the bar for everyone?
What is an example of a stellar talented team that is motivated and playing at a high level in recent memory?
Excuse me, not Magnus, chitown
Nick Stadts - in the last 20 years, no team has been able to outperform it's recruiting ranking consistently. It happens in 3-4 year bursts, then the team receded back. That's because, sometimes teams grab a guy that fell through the cracks.
JayMar,
Florida toiled in obscurity under Zookster despite typical Florida recruiting, than Meyer came in with that zaney spread. I think they're done meh since he took over....
the point, Nick, is that highly ranked high school players are infinitely more likely to become elite college players than poorly ranked high school players. So saying that you'd rather have "Barwis molded 2-stars" than 5-stars is very, very, silly.
Well then it's a good thing Michigan consistently has top recruiting classes
Man, there are about 1,000 arguments that I could pursue right now...
WVU's offense was not the same as Oregon's. I'm not saying Michigan would have beaten WVU, but Dennis Dixon had a much better passing game than WVU.
@ bgh
The point isn't "how much better?" but "It would have been better."
If the LG in 2008 causes Threet to throw a pass early that gets intercepted against Notre Dame and returned for a TD and ND wins the game, wouldn't that be a big thing?
I'm not saying that WILL happen or that one play can even decide the overall outcome of the game. It's impossible for any of us to know EXACTLY how much one personnel change will make.
But it will make a difference, and it will most likely be negative.
Like chitown said, more better players equals a more better team.
(That's some good grammar.)
Absolutely, chitown.
And I'm glad we've got a coaching staff that seems to get the most out of their recruits. If that's what they were able to unearth from 2 stars...I'd imagine we're in damn good shape with the infinitely better-rated crew we have.
I'm just comparing WVU's record to ours over the past 5-6 years.
That is where I get my "silly" pov from.
Huss good point...It's so cyclical..,
I hate to say this and give any credit to the Vest but I think moving OSU from a team of talented, but poorly coached, players to a well coached, over achieving (with the exception of the national stage minus the fortuitous call in the Miami game) has been the genesis of their success...
Success breeds success and then things drop off as the playing field levels out...
obviously, I agree with Chitown and Magnus on the point that the team is better with Boren than without,. But, at the same time, I'm merely pointing out that his loss wont be the kline of demarcation in which M loses 2 or 3 games more than it previously would have.
And of course as Huss and others point out, we get better recruiting classes than WVU anyway so talking about us "lacking talent" is silly.
My point still stands... we don't need Boren
Need Boren to function? No
Need Boren to bolster the team so that pressure is taken off other areas? Yes
The point is you can talk all the shit you want about Boren (he's great, he's the best, he's going to the nfl, we suck now because he is gone, blah blah blah), but it's all BS.
He's gone. Get over it. Step back from the ledge. He could've been Orlando Pace for all I care, but if he doesn't want to stay here and work....fuck him.
my loins are throbbing just thinking about borens man hulk. omg, thats a beefy beauty. M's football squad just got uglier. amirite?
Who's on the ledge?
I'm just saying we'll be worse off.
chitownblue:
Please excuse the "a" in my quote regarding Mr. Boren's intellect. Your snide comment is bearable.
Do you really think that Boren, who would clearly be in the best shape of his life with Barwis and after two years be in incredible shape, do you really think that transferring is smart??????
do you really want an upper classman complaining about the workouts being too difficult to be setting the standard of leadership????
Come on, I'd rather he take his softness somewhere else.
Wow. Classic threads, as far as polishing up the WLA Hit List. Comments...
this thread isn't going anywhere.
dex | 03.26.08 - 10:48 am | #
My handle jacking friend captured my thoughts perfectly here.
The guy who said the spread doesn't "need an o-line" should probably never watch football again since he is clearly insane. That moves into the "Dumbest Comment Ever" running with "If TP can't pick a college, how will he make reads!!!!" one.
WLA Posting Schedule:
I have not abandoned the site. I will resume writing after returning from Orlando, FL and WrestleMania 24 on Tuesday. Thank you comrades.
hey totally OT: people who went to grad school, did you need a co-signer for loans?
That being said, I wouldn't blame some people for being the ledge if you think about all the players we've lost in the past several months.
1. Mallett (once considered to be the future of the program)
2. Boren (our best returning offensive lineman)
3. Manningham (stud WR left early)
4. Arrington (stud WR left early)
And that's not to mention our all-time leading rusher, our all-time leading passer, maybe the best lineman in Michigan history...
That's a lot to withstand. We'll be okay, though.
Co-Signer - No
But then again I was already full-time with GM at the time I entered an Exec MBA program
OT: I met a sorostitute last night who was bragging about blowing Mike Hart.
Said that thing was thick like a man's forearm... I'm just saying.
@chitown
2. Justin Boren was a good player.
That should have read: "...was a good player LAST YEAR under the old coaching staff, where he wasn't required to work as hard."
And that's being generous.
When did Boren complain about the workouts?
All I read was basically, "It will take some time to get used to it."
If there's another quote out there, feel free to enlighten me. But that doesn't exactly sound like a complaint.
If I tell people "College takes some time to get used to," it doesn't mean, "Ohmygod, run for your lives! Just get a job changing oil or waxing eyebrows!"
Rob Lytle:
Considering that we have NO O-line depth that we'd ordinarily play this year, or next, I think it would be tough to claim that losing our best lineman, for any reason (the one's you apparently choose to believe are speculation), is not a bad thing.
Again, agreed w/ Magnus. We don't know why he left. Many people who know him have speculated that his quiet, reserved, personality may not fit well with a more yelling, in-your-face coaching staff.
Our previous complaints included:
we were underachievers
we were too slow
we were too predictable
Then RRod (and Barwis) come and provide an instant supply of energy and change of philosophy and we say:
we're gonna be fast
we're gonna be unpredictable
we're gonna be super tough and well conditioned
we're gonna maximize our talent
So, if RRod and Barwis are supposedly going to take our slow, predictable underachievers and craft them into badass muthers who are faster and better conditioned than our opponents, shouldn't we see some casualties? Didn't we predict this would happen? So, now we have evidence that a transformation is taking place. Great, I hope the squad develops into what we've pined for.
The offense is going to be green and make lots of mistakes. It's not going to carry the team to a championship. Still, I have every confidence that this offense will put a ton of pressure on opposing defenses. Even with so much inexperience I can't think we're going to be easy to defend.
Also, if Boren left, it's because he wasn't happy, for whatever reason. That's not "stupid".
While this isn't a totally fair argument, I'd love to see the Boren hating brigade that is repeatedly calling him soft endure one workout of even half the intensity of a Michigan football player.
Magnus:
He said he is having to work harder than in the past and that the line is being expected to do more than in the past.
Now he is transferring????? So, he is having to work harder, and do more, and now he quits, his present actions put his previous comments into context.
I did Tae-bo last summer, and I collapsed into a corner and cried myself to sleep.
Most people learn they can't have everything they want in life by 5th grade. Michigan football fans appear to maintain this mentality well into adulthood. Frightening.
New coach, new system, some players will leave. Deal.
Rob Lytle - you're omitting him mildly complaining that the new coaching staff was much more "in-your-face". Many people have said that he may have objected to swearing and yelling. That's not being a pansy, that's just having a personality clash.
I would love to be chiseled by Barwis (remove any gay connotation)
Brian says it well:
"Given that Justin Boren is the kind of guy who really doesn't get along with Rodriguez or Frey, this is probably for the best. But I kind of wish Boren wasn't that kind of guy and Michigan had more than three scholarship interior linemen on campus."
Damn you, Michigan-hating god.
I used to swim 2 high-intensity workouts a day. I swam for 15 minutes last week and thought I need a life preserver.
Oh...so Boren states the obvious ("Barwis is working us harder than Gittleson") and now we know everything he's thinking.
Damn.
I hope I'm not that transparent.
And former rugby midwest champion here, used to be able to run for 80 minutes nonstop...
Now you'd be lucky to get 5 minutes out of me.
Tim's right, Brian's take on Boren is spot-on. Boren doesn't seem like the guy that would get along with RR/Frey, so he's gone. I just wish he was the type to get along with them.
The man with the Wizard hat will soon find out that the Big Ten is a step up in competition form the Big East. You would have thought that Lloyd Carr didn't even have a strength coach by listening to this deification of the Barwis guy.
chitownblue:
It's Football man, we have lost to OSU how many times in a row????? We lose to unmentionables!!!! We underachieve consistently and now people are complaining because the coaching staff is "yelling" serioulsy what the F@#$!!!!!!!
anybody that doesnt want to be yelled at please take the tae-bo class with Magnus. anone that wantws to beat OSU and compete for a national championship get in the F@#$%^ weightroom, start running, and most importantly "Listen"!!!!!!!!!!!
Complaining about being yelled at, please.
And now someone comes in with the "someone tell RR this isn't the Big East!" line.
i hate how they use a round ball in th3e big east.
Rob Lytle - you aren't on the team, dude. Chill.
Would you want to play for a coach you disliked, for whatever reason?
Also: Jet Packs aren't allowed in the Big 10.
I love how the Big East has the walls against the field like the Arena league.
I'm not blaming RR. If Boren didn't like him or Frey, then that's what it is. Some people just don't get along - some people don't respond to yelling. It's how it is.
i played soccer in high school. (im not ap ussy, btw...soccer playing and me is a long story) anyway, i do like the sport. my senior year, i was captain. but i hated the coach,. it made the game miserable and i lost my desire to play./ so yeah, i undertsand. personalities clash, thats ok. there isnt neccesarily a good guy and a bad guy here.
i heard the big east was insituting a new rule in which a tam's running back can actually be a pony. any truth to this?
A point of comparison...
If my high school JV coach became the varsity head coach when I moved up, I might not have continued playing. He was a dick.
However, he didn't. I continued playing. And I love my varsity coaches to this day. The head coach is like a second father to me.
Coaches make a difference.
Nets in the end zone? Bounce off the net to a wide receiver, touchdown!
Rob Lyte, you are a moron.
The "argument" is that Boren didn't get along with the coaches, and is therefore gone.
Somehow, you've read this as "The coach should not yell at the players".
That interpretation is wildly incorrect. Congratulations on making up stuff to argue about.
That was a typo - he can be a unicorn
Also, the Big 10 keeps score in "Points", the Big East keeps score in "Lira", and then you have to do a conversion based on exchange rates...such a mess.
a unicorn? jesus. i'd be worried about safeties getting speared.
and i heard the big east was keeping score in zelda rupees this year. a more stable dolar, you know.
I never understood why they got 6 downs instead of 4- how is Rich gonna adjust his offense to account for the difference?
Also in the Big East, the losing team gets set on fire.
holding penalty = getting your hands chopped off
JayMarMan is right - but the unicorn must be, at least, half man, half unicorn. A Humicorn, if you will.
World of Warcraft gold...It's worth more than real money right now anyway...
Oh, that reminds me of the other big difference - magical spells are not allowed in the Big 10.
If I'm not mistaken, Sarah Jessica Parker is a humicorn.
chitownblue:
I am very relaxed my friend. But I love Michigan football, and the University of Michigan and am annoyed by an upper classman who wants to transfer because the workouts are to hard, and because someone is yelling at him.
when I played football, We got yelled at every single day. Everyone I know that played football got yelled at every single day.
We all hated the coach every single day but we appreciated being pushed and molded into the players we could be and the men we should be.
All I cared about was winning. do u remember that winning, remember what that felt like.
Humicorn *lol*
Uniman? Corniman? Horniman?
No - Horniman is Dex.
the key to winning in the big ten is havibng a lot mana. no mana = no wins.
My coaches gave us cotton candy when we did well.
And they forced us to eat cotton when we messed up.
We took a lot of water breaks.
Rob, not everyone is motivated by the same things. Some people may take the yelling and go out and kick ass. Some people may think it's dumb, overly-macho, and useless.
Tony Dungy doesn't yell, and he's one of the best coaches in the NFL.
Rob is such a MACHO man. He likes being yelled at!
Congrats on playing HS football like 400 other people here. I bet you would have won states if coach put you in the 4th quarter. And if it wasn't for that knee injury, you'd be playing Boren's spot. You should be invited to campus to give these kids a pep talk about WINNING! They, despite making it to the upper echelon of Division 1 football, certainly have no clue about work ethic and desire. No sir, it was handed to them and they don't appreciate it.
Get fucked.
Laughing my ass off at the Big 10 Big East differences.
And yes, it would be great if Boren got along with RR and whether you get along with your coach does make a big difference.
If RR didn't have the proven tack record he does I would be worried about Boren clashing with him.
I played high school football...But I was big and slow :(
I am 6'1 with a 30" inseam = no speed for me
for instance, I played lacrosse at Michigan. I had a team-mate who needed to run around and hit stuff and yell, and get yelled at in order to get motivated. If he came near me during pre-game, I went the other way, because it didn't work for me.
Mike Gundy doesn't yell, either.
chitown---this is aimed at all your comments. i bet you think you're funny because you have witty and sarcastic responses (ie "Tim, you are a voice of reason in the forest of insanity that is this board, and I don't want to fight you"). you aren't funny and 98% of your posts suck b/c you just like to pick meaningless online fights. Don't say 'those who stay will be champions' is meaningless.
And i'm not going to call you a traitor for saying that but that line is NOT meaningless. Accept it or don't but that motto is part of the great tradition that we have built and will always last with us. It is not meaningless and i'm not getting emo, its just that a program's reputation isn't based solely on the current state of things. you gotta factor in history too. that is part of what makes us Michigan.
And he's a MAN! a MAN!
RR's first WVU team had 58 scholarship players. Just thought I'd mention that.
Here in Nebraska, the sports page yesterday had a huge headline: "It's Bo Pellini's Way or the Highway". They understand, and they're behind him. They call him "Badass" in the local radio shows. They are already openly saying "Hey, if a guy doesn't fit Bo's style, we don't want him".
I'm not gonna trash Justin Boren, just say that Rich Rodriguez has a huge Lloyd Carr mess to clean up, and it may be painful, but since 2000, this thing has been broken (unless you think 8-4 or 9-3 is elite college football).
I may be off a bit, but the year we beat Alabama in the Orange Bowl is the last time UM has closed the season by beating OSU and won the bowl game. Something to think about.
I don't think a Boren/RR clash would reflect poorly on either of them. Some people just don't get along.
One of my JV teammates pooped his pants during warmups.
We were wearing white pants.
His last name was Smith, so he became Shitty Smitty from that point on.
True story.
Basketball analogy:
Say you have a star player and because of him you win 80% of your games.
Now his senior year you get one of the best coaches in the country to coach our team. This coach and your star clash, but even without his superior talent you win championships... maybe not the first year, but soon after.
I'd take that coach, even if it were at the expense of my star.
It would be nice to have an OL with Boren's experience, but maybe he saw some writing on the wall that he wasn't a match for this offense, i.e. some until now unknown backup was flourishing and pushing for his job.
With the new regime the coaches don't care who has experience in the old system, they would rather have some career backup with the desired foot quickness, then some plodding leaner who started 13 games this year.
What if Adam Kraus had a year of eligibility left and decided he was leaving? Would everyone freak out as much? Do all of us M fans overrate Boren because he played so early?
So let's relax and wait on convicting RR and the upcoming season until we see a game, or hear more after summer workouts...etc.
Chitownblue:
You are absolutely right about different motivations. I truly dont believe that all that is going on is yelling. I believe we have a wonderful coaching staff and that the guys will be built up higher than ever before.
But we all must agree that whatver had been going on was not getting the job done. In fact, we had been taking considerable steps backward.
Wouldnt you agree????
What made Michigan great was a coaching staff that didnt settle for the middle 4 loss seasons.
I was simply making a point that the men need to be challenged and motivated because what has been going on in the past few years seem to be undisciplined unmotivated football.
and DEX you are a silly person. God bless you.
i agree completely Nick even though that analogy could basically be applied to any sport
New thread, by the way.
Beantown,
1st, when I told Tim that he was "a voice of reason in a forest of insanity", I wasn't being sarcastic. That was actually 100% genuine - I think Tim is reasonable, and I like his posts. I disagreed with one thing he said.
Feel free to think I'm a mean meany who sucks.
I agree with you that tradition is important and that Michigan football is more than the past few years - I absolutely agree with that. However, that tradition does not physically win games for us. OSU's tradition didn't stop them from sucking for 2 or 3 years at the end of Cooper/start of Tressell period. To act as if negative occurrences will deflect off the program like it's coated in teflon is, in my mind, ignorant. Our wonderful tradition - that I agree with you that we have - will not protect the team from being bad. Having good players and coaches has made the team good - and if those leave, being "Michigan" won't keep us as an elite program.
Thank you for your wisdom Beantownblue, and I sincerely mean that.
Believing tradition will save you no matter your actions is why the US is in the throes of a recession, fighting a 5 year war, and crumbling around the edges.
Moral of the story - embrace the Revolution. Comrade Rodriguez will provide, just give him time. You don't make a glorious worker's paradise that produces national titles like candy without spilling some blood.
Dex:
Now your for spilling blood and a few minutes ago you are cursing at me because I'm not offended by the yelling.
You truly are a silly person.
analogy:
RR is a wizard. Boren is a dragon. wizards hate dragons.
I think I made beantownblue cry.
Intriguing comparison...Fascist fundy war hawk regime = communist football coaching staff? *pondering*
no, tradition doesn't directly win us games. i'll give you that. i'm not saying it does. I always thought it was ignorant for fans to say "were michigan and you should want to come play for us." thats not true, but all i am saying is don't forget what makes us 'us'. + we goto space.
chitown-- you are pathetic. don't think so highly of yourself.
can we all agree that blowjobs are small, good things?
chitown:
you are pathetic. Truly. Are u and Dex twins?
I am a RR 9000 computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Ann Arbor, Michigan on the 4th of January 2008. My instructor was Mr. Lloyd Carr, and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you.
"Hail to the Victors..." *singing in lazy pleasant computer voice*
Beantown - I've never attacked anything other than people's opinions. You want to pull the juvenile "you're not funny and you suck" like a 4th grader, then don't bitch at me for responding to it.
and just cause i embrace the michigan tradition doesn't take anything away from RR. i like what he is doing and think we will make us great again. i guess you could call it being a fan who grew up in AA and graduated from michigan. weird, huh?
Chitown:
Now your lying. you threw juvenile comments at me for a simple "typo" get off of beantown.
someone needs to take his medication now.
i had a bukakke party last night and it ruined my carpet...
There is a big difference from the Big East, Snake Oil man will find that out. He can only schedule 4 cupcakes and not 5 cupcakes.
BGH, i suggest next time you roll out the tarp
"You want to pull the juvenile "you're not funny and you suck" like a 4th grader, then don't bitch at me for responding to it.
chitownblue 00 | 03.26.08 - 1:28 pm | "
....
" I think I made beantownblue cry.
chitownblue 00 | 03.26.08 - 1:23 pm | "
hmm...seems pretty 'juvenile' to me chitown. you're pathetic. and that's a wrap.
ROb, your lack of understanding is fucking AMAZING.
I am not offended by yelling either. Here it is, in very small words:
I do not have a problem with yelling.
I do not care whether or not you have a problem with yelling.
Our opinion on the matter is irrelevant.
Justin Boren is the one who (maybe) cares about yelling.
If you do not care about yelling, it does not mean Justin Boren has the same personality as you.
Justin Boren (maybe) transferred because he does not like RR.
Justin Boren does not care if you like RR.
Rob - I just thought that someone calling someone an idiot while simultaneously typing in caveman-speak was funny.
Actually 2000 (not 1999) was the last year that we beat OSU and then won the bowl but, yeah, it's been a while.
msimms, are you still inquiring on Bay Area attendees? I'll join up with you. You aren't Mike "Spider" Simms are you? Just curious.
Obviously Boren leaving will leave an affect on his younger brother Zach, a 2009 recruit...
Wow this is more fun to watch/read than a bunch of monkeys flinging poo at each other. but not TOO much more, because it's essentially the same thing.
The thread is dead when people start resorting to "see how much I got you riled up?", "I am a secret agent/super model/action hero/super genius/millionaire, but what are you?" and "I am done with you, dismissed!" tactics...
I'm not that bothered by it, beantownblue. It's Michigan arrogance. It's what makes us so great.
Honestly, the only thing worse than everyone exhibiting a certain annoying stereotypical behavior (the sky is falling!) is acting like everyone else is exhibiting that behavior when they really are not, if that makes any sense. When you do the latter, you end up quickly disregarding individual opinions as typical insane drivel while superficially elevating yourself above everyone else.
Actually, there are things a lot worse than whole groups of people making inane comments. Genocide is one, for starters.
Attitudes of Michigan fans of the '08 season based on record:
Worse than 7-5: FIRE RICH ROD!
7-5: A rough transition, but we'll get better.
8-4: The best we could have reasonably expected.
9-3: Suprisingly good. RichRod sure can coach.
10-2: Whast an amazing year! The RR era is going to be awesome!
11-1, with the loss coming to somebody other than Ohio State: OMG, let's all worship Rich Rod!
11-1, with the loss coming to Ohio State: FIRE RICH ROD!
LOL @ Bursley... amusing, but you forgot the 12s and the 13...
12-1 with loss coming to somebody other than tOSU (that is, victory over tOSU); OMG let's double worship RR.
12-1 (or even 6-6) with victory over tOSU but the victory over tOSU keeps tOSU out of NC game (a la Pitt vs. WVA in '07), then triple worship RR and he gets' two free extra years...
more to be typed....
wow, must be new post... got my Halo's mixed up....
ugh, glad I stopped typing... nevermind.....
58 scholarship players at wvu=3-8 season. DO NOT WANT.
Fellows, you are quite entertaining. Perhaps you would like to visit our campus to re-organize your program. Recently I saw a display of your football facility compared to ours; the Mich looked like the local community college in the 1970's. The Buckeye weight room was athletic nirvana. Wait, a call just came in: Slippery Rock wants to play a home-home series with UM & AppState.
See you in November...
IN THIS EPISODE, NINJA HELPS THE LESS FORTUNATE OF THE WORLD (with help from our good friend Sally Struthers)
Btw, I recommend visual earmuffs for those who do not enjoy certain crude humor. You've been warned. Carry on.
So I was sitting at work on Wednesday when I got a call from Sally Struthers, and I said
"Holy shit! It's Sally Struthers!"
Which is weird because Sally Struthers and I are BFFs and she calls me all the time (we both belong to Oprah's Book Club) but on Wednesday Sally was all business.
She said "Joshua, I called today because I wanted to know if you could help out some children in Africa."
So I asked Sally Struthers,
"Will this make me feel better about myself, or just help them? And more importantly, will it cut into my MZone browsing time?"
She said it would, and it wouldn't, so I said
"Sweet! sign me up!"
So Sally Struthers said it would cost about the same as a cup of coffee a day, at which point I said
"Would that be a cup of instant coffee, or a Vente double white chocolate mocha with a shot of that almond syrup, skim, no whip, heated to about 120 degrees so I don't burn my mouth?"
...which is also weird, because I don't drink coffee. Sally Struthers said instant- for the price of the other I could buy the kid a cow, 30 acres of corn and a combine, and I thought to myself
"Self, how's a cow supposed to drive a combine to Africa?"
Then I wondered if a cow would be offended by all the burger joints he'd pass on his way, and figured this would probably cause the cow to get his panties in a bunch, because I know if I was driving a combine to Africa and had to pass a bunch of places selling Joshua Burgers my panties would end up in a bunch. And if the cow got his panties in a bunch, this would probably cause a certain discomfort. So then I said to Sally, I said
"Sally, I don't want to be the cause of a fat cow with an aching vagina, I'd rather HELP a fat cow with an aching vagina."
So Sally Struthers and I put our heads together, and I think we came up with a solution: sometime this week Sally Struthers will deliver a tube of Vagisil to Justin Boren, whatever size she can get for "about the price of a cup of coffee".
Sally Struthers, I thank you, and Justin Boren thanks you. (CAll ME!)
Boren insulates himself in a warm cocoon of family values disappearing from the football program and justifies leaving b/c of the vanishing.
I know things get tough in a new atmosphere, particularly when the previous atmosphere included lots of pizza and naps; but he still could have been an agent of change if, in fact, the atmosphere was too 'charged'.
"Hey coach, maybe you could stop dropping the f-bomb so much, yes? But I love that I am in the best shape of my life!".
You guys are FUCKED!!!!
How does this affect Zach Boren? Didn't UM just sign like 12 linebackers? Zach Boren is 6'1, 230, and runs a 8.4 forty.
hey all remember the picture of osu defense in michigan backkfield and "91" total yards.
TIME FOR CHANGES!!!!!!!!!
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