Why not just call it the Tangerine Bowl, or possibly the Sunshine Classic instead of Citrus Jr?
Rose
Citrus
Hall of Fame
Alamo
Tangerine
Copper
George Perles (Motor City)
Has anyone ever confirmed the "Lloyd Carr has Parkinsons" rumor? I'm no doctor, but there doesn't appear to be any visual evidence that he's suffering from the disease.
It was the Sunshine Classic back when it started.
Also, you won't be cruel enough to make me pick between Virginia and Michigan, would you?
What happened to the Capital One bowl?
The Capital One spokesman more or less stated they weren't going to pick Michigan even before the Ohio State game. Lemme see if I can find that article again.
How the hell are we out of the Outback and Citrus? Makes no sense. Also, the recruiting thing is ridiculously stupid. There are so many factors that go into recruiting. There's no way that chart should even be looked at.
The last time I hoped for a lesser bowl to get a win we ended up in the Alamo Bowl and put up one of the worst loses in memory (at that point.) Now, I'm sticking with just wanting to watch my team play on New Years Day. With Hart and Henne healthy there's no reason we can't compete with whatever SEC opponent shows up. We probably won't but there's no reason we shouldn't compete.
Couldn't the Capital One bowl take Illinois though?
Why? Because Wisconsin has been to the Capital One the last two years, because we've lost two straight, because Illinois is the new hottness what with its newfound passing game, and because our decline over the course of one game (from Rose Bowl to Champs Sports Bowl in one loss) needs to mirror in intensity the drop after the ASU loss.
I can't find the one where Steve Hogan said Michigan was "unlikely," but here's the storyline he's angling for:
The University of Illinois versus the University of Florida -- that potential Capital One Bowl matchup just sounds exciting, doesn't it?
"That's a very real possibility," said Steve Hogan, the executive director of Florida Citrus Sports, the organization that runs both the Capital One Bowl and the Champs Sports Bowl.
"There's a heck of a story there if that happened and you saw Ron Zook coming back to town to play Florida with two highly ranked programs. I've got to imagine that would be one of the hottest tickets in the state."
UI and UF?
Ugh and double ugh.
Brian, your post assumes that Missouri will beat OU, correct? Because it seems to me that an OU win opens up a whole new realm of bowl possibilities, BCS and otherwise.
How bout a Profiles in Bungling Fuck-Ass-Ism on DeBord, just for shits and giggles?
easy Proctor...while we may not like his playcalling and will be happy to see a new OC, he has served many years at Michigan and also was the OC when we won a national championship in '97. He deserves better than that.
With the success Brian Kelly has seen at GVSU, CMU, and now Cinn., something is telling me that we could really regret not taking him while we have the chance.
But still, Les Miles is the safer choice, and I really want someone who can fire up this team and this fanbase. So screw it.
Hi, Coach.
Also...all these bowl scenarios seem to assume Mizzou over Oklahoma, which seems to be a BIG assumption.
What are our Citrus chances if OK wins (sending OSU to MNC, and Illinois to Rose)?
Not that I think DeBored is correct (he was a crappy head coach) it's human nature to put oneself in the best light possible. Even if he knows he's got no shot at Michigan he probably hopes to get some other gig somewhere in some capacity. Saying..."yes I failed miserably" wouldn't exactly show confidence in his own abilities (of course walking away and saying he wasn't cut out for it doesn't exactly help, but in the here and now he's got to put it in the best light he can, or just give up.
He should be released by the next head coach, but appreciated for his committment to the program. He may not have deserved to be OC, but I can't see hating a person for giving their best and not being all that good.
Carr has personally, emphatically denied the Parkinson's rumors. He said he has no idea how that rumor got started.
\he has served many years at Michigan and also was the OC when we won a national championship in '97. He deserves better than that.//
"Deserve's" got nothing to do with it.
1997. That was 10 years ago. You can still find souvenirs from that season on E-Bay...they go really cheap...most people who remember it have moved on and lived through some pretty shitty football seasons since then.
Virginia would be perfect as Lloyd's last game.
Will never ever forget that pass from Dreisbach to Hayes as time expired in the Pigskin classic.
I dont really care what bowl we go this year---def looking ahead. I would like Lloyd, Chad and Mike to go out with a bowl win though.
Also, while that chart is clearly almost useless, I would like to see one that takes into account ratings, year, and ratings of backups...sounds complicated, but maybe if someone had a whole lot of time on their hands...?
Alternatively, you could try to assign some sort of measure based on whether recruits typically "overperform" based on their ratings (i.e., Hart, Laurinaitis) or "underperform" (Anthony Morelli anyone?) But this would probably turn into more of a study of the effectiveness of ratings methodologies than of player development.
tOSU defies the recruiting rankings so consistently because everything I've heard and read seems to point to the fact that they do an excellent job with their in-season and "voluntary" off-season strength and conditioning programs.
If Michigan manages to hire a competent S&C coach soon we will look worlds different.
If Michigan manages to hire a superb S&C coach we could be in for some excellent seasons in the near future!
Johnny, the point is, that it's over. I am glad it is, just like everyone else. What I don't see as necessary is the continued grilling of someone who has given himself to our University, regardless of whether we wanted him. He worked hard and was a damn good recruiter.
if MDB was doing so well at CMU, why did he leave?
Gnarls-
It has never been confirmed that Lloyd has Parkinson's to my knowledge. The only assumption I think people are basing that off of is he appears to be visibly much older in his face. I don't attribute that to Parkinson's though, I think he is just aging badly. If he had Parkinson's there would be other noticeable traits that would not be able to be hidden on t.v. Parkinson's.org attributes these as the tell tale signs one would have Parkinson's: * tremor, or trembling in hands, arms, legs, jaw, and face * rigidity, or stiffness of limbs and trunk * bradykinesia, or slowness of movement* postural instability or impaired balance and coordination. Plus if he really did have it, I doubt Martin would have asked him to stay on for another season.
Lloyd seems to be a pretty honest guy, I'm sure if he had it, he would have said.
I think it's offensive to be discussing the possibility of Lloyd Carr having Parkinsons. Let's all just hope he doesn't, and stop encouraging the spread of something coach Carr has already denied.
The best comment from DeBord was just after he quit at Central, saying "There were obstacles present that prevented winning" (or something to that effect).
Yes, Mike, while you were the HC at CMU, there *was* one rather large obstacle that couldn't be overcome....
The problem I see with DeBord is he has always been a silver spoon guy. Everything fell on his lap.
He was groomed to be the next head coach at Michigan. Abject failure at CMU - no problem. Special Teams coordinator next year. And O-coordinator at Michigan the year after. So there were two chances he got at Michigan and he wasn't good during both the stints.
He could've just tried to be a better Offensive coordinator and a better head coach somewhere. Prove that he was a fit here. Instead, he brings up a totally fallacious statement that he was responsible for CMU's revival which is a blatant lie.
We have too many sympathizers.
@ 00goblue00,
Despite the honesty, Carr never discusses injuries/sickness. He could have the bubonic plague, but wouldn't
a) want attention put on himself that would distract from the team
b) disclose any information that would suggest weakness.
Chief Nacho
Gnarls was asking a simple question. I radon't think he was trying to start a rumor, so I wouldn't take offense to it. I'm not condoning, but go check other schools message boards they are the ones perpetuating the rumors, I think Gnarls just simply wanted to know if it was true or not. He now knows, end of discussion.
Guys, so does anyone think that the Fort will be opened up to an extent. Open practices? More stuff pouring out from the insiders?
I think the Capital One people made that comment about not wanting Michigan before Illinois became a possibility for the Rose. If OSU goes to the title game and Illinois to the Rose, it's us or Penn St for the Citrus. Probably against Florida. My money is on us because we beat Penn State. My money is then on Florida because I doubt Vegas will make Florida 58 point favorites. I hope Champs Sports.
Can somebody say what the author means when he says:
"My biggest problem with that particular meme is it ignores the Weis effect. Simply stated, the Weis effect: "If Charlie Weis was in charge of developing these players, would they be 'talented'?""
If he's saying that Weis is an awful player developer, could you explain the jump between '04 and '05?
I still don't think florida is that big of a threat. If we key in on stopping tebow either in the air or on the ground (probably air because we cant defend the ISQD), we should compete if anything. I think if it came down to us or PSU against florida, we'd be picked just because of the urban meyer politicking last season.
Formerly Anon-
Point taken, however, with Parkinsons even when medicated the symptoms still do not completely cease. Take Michael J. Fox for example, even while medicated you can still see slight effects of the disease that come through. You would still be able to tell. Anyway, that is my last post on this topic, I don't want to offend anyone (and I am being serious about that, not sarcastic)
Have a good day everyone!!
brian, why the lack of mgolicious and aol updates... those are lunchtime reading bread and butter.
Cpt. Starbuck,
Brady Quinn and that boxer guy were pretty good players that year. DWalk already showed signs during the 04 year that he was developing.
Not that anyone gives a rip, but the Champs Sports Bowl actually was the Tangerine, once upon a time.
The original Tangerine Bowl morphed into the Florida Citrus (now Capital One) Bowl back in 1982; the Tangerine name was resurrected from 2001-2003 for what started life as the Sunshine Classic in 1990 and later became the Blockbuster, Carquest, and MicronPC Bowl, but Champs Sports grabbed it in 2004 and gave it its current, eminently prestigious name.
Various family members of mine down in Orlando were involved in the Tangerine Bowl first getting started way back when, so it's kind of been disappointing to see the Tangerine name get whacked in favor of naked corporate whoring, but such is life these days, I guess.
Sidenote: I'm not convinced that without one full class of recruits going through his system that an argument either way is conclusive enough.
Brady Quinn is awesome:
http://sportswrap.berecruited.co...res-not-pretty/
It was my understanding that bowls like Capital One, Citrus, Outback, and Alamo did not want to take Michigan because of the lack of fan base disappointing season.
Maybe I'm reaching but I would assume that if most season ticket holders can afford to buy tickets to the home games then they would be able to afford to travel to a bowl game in Florida, Texas, or hell even California(in years past when we went to the Rose Bowl). I would go to any one of those just for the appeal to get out of Michigan for a few days at this time. lol.
Brian, if ever there were an exception to the "if it's public it's probably official" rule, wouldn't be a situation like ours? A coaching search without a formal look at Les Miles at this point would cause riots. I'm not saying this is definitely the case, but if Michigan were angling to hire someone else it'd have to appear as if they made a fair effort for Miles. This could be that.
Besides, Nebraska has publicly interviewed - or stated plans to interview - three candidates, all of whom were said to have a chance at the job.
Bowls are weary of us because of the poor showing of fans at the Alamo Bowl. If we have a disappointing year our fans become immovable objects during bowl season. Then again, most Michigan fans are dogshit anyways (I'm looking at you sections in the 20's)
Having been to the alamo bowl last time, Michigan maybe had 10k people there, which was about 10-15% of the crowd. If I remember correctly, the bowl reserves 35-45% of the tickets to participating schools, michigan couldnt sell those.
ugh I really need to start previewing these before I send them so I can check for errors.
Capital One/Citris
fan base/disappointing season.
That's better.
"At best, they'd be looking at the Alamo Bowl,'' said Frank Frana, an official with the Capital One Bowl. "At best.''
Ah, how far have we fallen when we can be dissed by the likes of a Frank Frana.
formerly anonymous-
Thanks, I think you're pretty fair. Quinn was OK as a sophomore (54% completion and 17-10 TD-INT0, but I don't think he really won any games for the team that year. I agree with you on Zibby and Walker, although I think Weis utilized both those players a lot better than the previous staff (Zibby on Punt returns and got Walker much more involved in the passing game).
The receivers really improved in '05 though. Samardzija couldn't see the field under the previous staff and Stovall really blossomed.
That said, I think you're exactly right that there isn't enough data to judge Weis as a good or bad developer. That said, if Clausen, Hughes, Kamara, Tate, Smith, Neal, and others of the freshman make a similar leap to the one Walls made between his frosh and soph year, I think that'll be pretty favorable for Weis.
I certainly wasn't trying to spread a rumor re: Carr and Parkinsons. If anyone is offended, I apologize. The only reason I asked is because the link to ND Nation that Brian posted references Carr's alleged illness as a fact. Thanks to everyone for the info.
Musket-
I sit section 36. They are pretty loud in that section I was surprised because as a student none of the alumni sections ever sounded very loud from the student section. But 36 is pretty loud (maybe because I am in it now lol)
I know what you are talking about with the 20's though, they are always the ones that you can barely hear when we spell out Michigan and they always seem to be the last to catch on to the wave lol.
I hate to admit it, but you're right, we don't travel well to the Alamo Bowl because, well, it's the Alamo Bowl, and in general, our fans tend to be snobby about things like that. The reasoning being: "well, if it were the Rose Bowl, I'd go, but it's just the Alamo Bowl". We think we've been snubbed. Illinois' fans, on the other hand, are more likely to think "woo hoo, bowl game" than UM fans.
I just read on Dodds and Ends on sportsline.com that Jerry Palm, the BCS guru, thinks that LSU could pass up OSU if they win the SEC champ game (and WV/Mizzou loses), based on LSU's really strong computer ranking. Wouldn't that make our coaching search all the more interesting?
PT - just imagine the Buckeye fury if that were to happen and we got Miles after the SECCG. HA
ATL Blue-
It is a shame but you are right a lot of our fans are snobby. I know my fiances parents went to the Rose Bowl last year and said there were some UofM fans but not nearly what they were expecting, completely outnumbered. Granted I know it is in California and we played USC so California residents get dibs on tickets too besides USC fans, but, they said we were greatly outnumbered.
Don't look now kids, but Dr. Tom is BAAAAAAAAAAACK:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22026100/
Is this good or bad for Nebraska's head coaching search?
I was hoping to avoid a flame war, hence the objectivity. Notre Dame will still lose to michigan, even if mike debord coached.
Lets settle this once and for all even though it defies all logic...
Michigan in "Motor City Bowl" = + fan base, + that impossible bowl win for the big three and Carr, and + even though I am not rich I can go!
... gimme some more of that whiskey Bryan
G Dubb, i have heard the Parkinson's thing from my buddy who is on the gymnastics team sometime during summer of 06!!! So....
I should add to my previous post that I don't even think our fans care if it's in California sometimes we still don't generate a large base.
Maybe that is attributed to the fact that we went 3 years in a row and had lost the previous two? I don't know, it all just surprises me though.
it makes sense from a nebraska standpoint, why lose recruiting time. Does anyone know if Lloyd is doing the recruiting visits right now?
The world may not be able to withstand the increase in global warming that would arise from the hot air generated by OSU and LSU/SEC fans arguing whether their team/conference deserves to be the #2 team.
00goblue00
I sit in 34 now and it has its moments of fury, which is nice to see. I wasn't even yelled at for standing for the entire OSU game this year. There is a guy in 35 who sits just across the aisle who just yells incoherent babble mixed with his drunk rendition of the word "asshole" (think ashthhulll). It got so bad this year that my dad actually said "If you knock that guy out I'll take his friend." And my dad is rarely prone to violence.
Back on topic though, I pretty much hate everyone who sits in the 20's (besides the students in 28 or so) because of their apathetic attitude towards Michigan football. They treat their tickets as status symbols so they can say "I went to the Michigan game on Saturday" with their noses in the air. This, instead of "I am typing to tell you that I went to the Michigan game this weekend but I can't talk because I screamed the whole game." Sorry to everyone for venting, but this year's Michigan fans almost had me lose it. You NEVER EVER boo your own team. I don't care who they are losing to or how bad they suck.
Couldn't agree more MusketRebellion. Section 15 was disappointing again this season. There's just not enough people in the stadium who are fired up to root for the team.
I will poop in my pants if Michigan is motivated and prepared for the bowl game. It doesn't matter who they play, I'm expecting an ugly loss.
I don't see how Henne will be close to 100%.
Alex Mitchell should be up to a good 350 by late Dec.
I used to think these guys would be motivated to want to go out with a win etc. The Florida game was the last time that happened never with Hart and Co.
Not fooling myself again. I'll be glad when the season is finally officially over.
Well the michigan section at the University of Rochester, Blackbear Saloon in New Haven,CT, Trinity College(CT) dorms were all loud.
I'd trade the folks in section 15 for the folks in the Trinity College dorms.
Good for the Blackbear Saloon. I'm all for revoking ticket sales to people who refuse to be a part of the fun. And people who wear pink to games. That has to to go, it is Maize or Blue or get the fuck out (I prefer Maize because the stadium looks incredible during a Maize out).
Musket-
I was surprised at the OSU game, our entire section stood most of the time and a lot of alum in the section were encouraging people to stand up and scream and people actually listened lol. I'll have to pay more attention for the drunk guy in 35 next season.
I agree though, people in the 20's use their tickets as status symbols. I sit on the 50 so I have expensive tickets. Big Freakin Deal. Screw that, I enjoy sitting in the endzone, you have a great view of the field and the people in the sections tend to be really fun. I have more fun in 36 then I ever did in the student section (I was usually stuck by the overly drunken idiots who would fall off the stands and knock you down in the process or the ditzy girls who paid no attention and just talked about how they were in love with the current QB)
pjozzy, I agree. Most season ticket holders do not appreciate what they have. Musket, I think you mean the student section looks incredible during a maize out
I sit in 18, first year, I sat in 8 for 12 years and it was ok but I had to leave since they started putting opposing fans right on top of me.
LOL I love the Michigan chant - it goes like this M I I G A N!!!
Carr said in his press conference that the head coach only has so many visits with players and so he couldn't really go and use those visits up considering the new coach will need to use those. I'm sure they are still on the phone with all the guys.
OSU's ultimate karmic comeuppance will be if our loss to ASU hurts their strength of schedule enough to keep them out of the title game. That emotion then gets DOUBLED if LSU gets in instead, then tripled if we get Les Miles after that.
I would watch all those videos of OSU fans cheering about our loss, and laugh and laugh.
Of course, OSU fans would still wear their ASU merchandise around, though, since (a) they don't really give a shit about cheering for their team, and (b) they don't understand irony.
@TOOL2112
I thought I heard the same thing. That piece of information sticks out when it comes down to the negotiations and search. How long do we go without visits?
Regarding this statement:
If he had Parkinson's there would be other noticeable traits that would not be able to be hidden on t.v. Parkinson's.org attributes these as the tell tale signs one would have Parkinson's: * tremor, or trembling in hands, arms, legs, jaw, and face * rigidity, or stiffness of limbs and trunk * bradykinesia, or slowness of movement* postural instability or impaired balance and coordination.
Michael J. Fox was diagnosed in 1990 or 1991 and successfully kept it secret until 1998 despite being on TV a lot more than Lloyd.
Tool-
You are right about the Michigan chant, that is pretty much how it always turns out lol.
I suggest you wear depends the day of the bowl game, especially if you end up going out. That could end up being messy lol. But it might be all for nothing because I'm not really expecting much out of the team. I hate to be a pessimist but really after this season I don't know if they can pull it out.
what are the chances tenuta from ga tech end up as def. coordinator at u of m?
the reason quinn was better under weiss was b/c we was a Jr & Sr under weiss instead of a Fr/So under Ty. and he was a Jr/Sr w/ 25+ games of starting expereince under his belt, no less.
why M doesn't travel well is that
A) anything but a BCS bowl is 'meh'
B) when it is a BCS bowl it's the RB 90% of the time, which everyone has been to by now. (3 appearances in 4 years?)
C) when it's not a BCS bowl, it's the Cap1/Citrus 90% of the time, which most people have been to as well (was it 3/5 years from 98-2002 or so?).
so, aside from the Orange & and the Alamo, i think it's been the same 2 bowls (Rose or Citrus) every year since 1997. what am i forgetting? maybe one outback in there in 2001?
This is a long posting, sorry in advance. I wrote this in my journal after the App State game while I was still devastated and pissed off at the world (and perhaps a little drunk). It is long, sorry.
"However, in all honesty what pisses me off the most about this loss is the fact that the total lack of commitment and desire for Michigan fans shone through on a massive scale. We just lost in the biggest upset in college football history, and nobody gave a fuck. The lack of true character and fortitude in our fanbase makes me want to cry. As Andy and I walked from the stadium a girl and guy behind us were talking and the guy (THE GUY!) said, "well at least it was a good game." A good game? A GOOD FUCKING GAME? Do I need to reiterate that we just lost to a Division I-AA school? I know I'm beating this dead horse repeatedly, but WE JUST LOST TO A DIVISION I-AA SCHOOL. How was this a good game? Do you think before you speak or was that just ignorant crap spewing forth from your lips? There is nothing good about this game. Nothing. The defense sucked. Our Heisman Trophy Candidate quarterback is a joke. We wasted one of the most brilliant running displays ever put on by losing to a inferior football team. But this was a good game. No, it was not. There is nothing positive or salvageable from this game. It is the worst loss in the history of our proud program and to think otherwise is a blind and uneducated opinion.
I've always known that the average Michigan fan is a joke. Whether it is some hick from the hidden depths of Michigan's backwoods, or the laughing stock Alumni section Michigan fans are on the majority pathetic. But I never thought it would get this bad. Upwards of 30,000 fans had left the game by the end of the third quarter. How do you leave in a close game? How? In 20 years of going to football games I've left a game early once. I was 9, and I was throwing up on the way out of the stadium. Which ironically is what I felt like doing on Saturday. The fans of this team go out of their way to be casual and quiet. The Big House was loud for maybe ten minutes of that football game, and it should have been loud the entire game. There is no reason for this to happen. There are 110,000 fans in this stadium. A tenth of a million people, and we are one of the quietest stadiums in the nation. The sad fact is that over the last ten years it has gotten worse. It used to be louder, but with ballooning ticket prices pricing out the average fan, you get nothing but the upper class douche bags who use their tickets as status symbols. These aren't true fans. They are people who come in wearing their pastel yellow shirts, sit on their hands, with their mouths closed and who don't give a crap about the team. I don't care how many millions of dollars they are donating to the program, if they aren't going to be real fans, then I don't want them in my stadium. They can stay and tailgate at the railroad tracks. Which to bring up a point, on the
Mark II-
Point taken. I never really watched anything with Michael J Fox in it from 91-98 so I wouldn't really know other than what I have seen of him recently. I am just basing off of what I have seen of Carr i.e. away games I watch on t.v. and Michigan Replay. It didn't seem like he had it.
I doubt they understand karmic comeuppance either.
After the App St game I wore a TOOL tour shirt to the Oregon game, as soon as I got in the car to go to the Oregon game if felt like I was going to a funeral. In some ways I think I actually did.
Aside from that one time it's Maize and Blue for clothing. I'm all for some sort of IQ test to get into the Stadium and a strict clothing policy. Although we need more big bootied women there.
I recognize that my post about the LSU talent level is simplistic, but there is really no need to go into depth. The point is simple: the raw material going into LSU is not some monster collection of football shirtlessness that makes an 84 percent winning percentage crappy. That can be definitively concluded in this analysis. The "look at all the talent!" cliche meant as an indictment of Miles is in fact an endorsement of his player development ability.
Beyond that, the analysis is not terribly useful.
on the way to the Stadium, if you walk down Hill Street, there is a bus which is painted up in Maize and Blue and equipped with enough amenities to make it a premiere party wagon. While driving to my parents anniversary dinner after the game this bus was alive and kicking. There were 30 something year old girls dancing like strippers on the roof, beer bongs were being hit, and not a hint of remorse showed on their faces. For somebody, or a group of people to put that much effort into a party atmosphere you would think that they were real fans. Fans who truly cared about the team. But no, Michigan football is just an excuse for them to party, and this was the straw the broke my already fragile back.
The complete lack of passion from a crowd of 110,000 people broke my heart, and I'm still wrestling with the fact that it has become hard for me to be a Michigan fan. That is a phrase I thought I'd never say or type. Being a Michigan fan has become a burden. It is hard for me to go to a game without hating almost every other person in the stadium. I'd rather watch them by myself in an empty stadium than share this wonderful and joyous experience with anyone else, and I'd probably make more noise. Just give me the Michigan Marching Band and a team that gives a crap about the fact that they get to wear the most sacred of football uniforms and I'll be happy, perfectly content with my life.
Sorry, that got cut off. All I have to say in conclusion is that people on here can come to my empty stadium if you want, but if you sit on your hands I'm cutting them off Saudi Arabian style.
Is it bad of me that I'm hoping Michigan makes it to the Alamo Bowl so I can go see a game? This is the first season in 7 years that I didn't go to at least one game (having lived in Ann Arbor until this year).
The downside of a 5000 year bowl streak is you've been to a bowl 5000 times.
It's an expensive trip during the holidays. We'll always have people that can afford it, but the novelty has worn off I suspect. This isn't Illinois where the fans only get to go somewhere every decade.
Not that I'm complaining. I'd go to the Champ Sports Bowl if someone paid for me or if we hadn't been to a bowl game in 10 years. As it is, I simply can't afford to take time off work, pay for a hotel, pay for a ticket, and pay for transportation. I'd suspect there are quite a few in a similar situation.
I haven't read 1 thing about the LSU Defense was a MASH unit last Sat. I swear someone was limping off every other play or so it seemed.
1 DL was already gone, their all-american DL was on 1 leg and a bad back, Safety was banged up etc.
McFanden(sp) could very well be better than Adrian Peterson.
By the way is it coincidence that Hutch paves the way for Alexander to record setting years in Seattle then he goes to Minny and now Peterson is the greatest RB ever?
I haven't read 1 thing about the LSU Defense was a MASH unit last Sat. I swear someone was limping off every other play or so it seemed.
1 DL was already gone, their all-american DL was on 1 leg and a bad back, Safety was banged up etc.
McFanden(sp) could very well be better than Adrian Peterson.
By the way is it coincidence that Hutch paves the way for Alexander to record setting years in Seattle then he goes to Minny and now Peterson is the greatest RB ever?
Musket-
I agree with you about the alumni and how a lot of them are a joke. In defense though, my future mother in law used to tell me how much fun the games used to be when she was a student and a fresh out alum.
I believe part of the problem was a former AD (name escapes me)who banned several things from happening in the stadium because it wasn't aesthetically pleasing and considered a distraction. Why don't we have a mascot? How is that distracting? I think it would be fun to have a wolverine in a jersey down at the endzones interacting with fans and the cheer/dance teams. Why isn't the band allowed to participate in the wave I find that to be less distracting than when they come into the stands after half time and play. There are several things that the school as a whole thinks are beneath us and I for one think it's absolutely ridiculous.
Musket -
That bus is owned by a bunch of MBA students. They probably are just going there for the atmosphere - they have their own undergrads to root for.
@Musket
I mean, I can see where you are coming from. But I don't show "remorse" after a loss because what the hell could I have done about it? I get drunk, I yell, I scream, I get pissed, but when the game is over it's over. Shouldn't let it ruin your day.
MusketRebellion:
Nice!
I have the same problem with the toolbags that go to concerts and then stand there front and center like a lump.
Why the F are they there if they're not going to get into the energy of a live show? The beauty of the now mostly banned mosh pit is that it made that type of douchebaggery impossible.
I totally agree people like that need to stay home and listen to their headphones and watch on TV.
00goblue00 -
No. No. Nonononono. Bad 00goblue00.
No mascots. Ever.
No.
So according to that NDNation link, the kid from Growing Pains was on our staff with Moeller.....
"Guys like Miles and Kirk Cameron were seen as extremely arrogant, brash and aggressive"
When I was a student, our cheerleaders used to run over to the other sideline and "kidnap" the opposing team's mascot, then mash his head or balls into the goalpost (not really, but they playacted it) and it got the crowd going. Why did they stop that? "Poor sportsmanship"?
I went to the Rose Bowl in 97 and it's like $1,250 or so. Has to be atleast $1,500 now. I mean that's a lap dance at Scores for Troy Smith.
Anon-
LOL. I don't see a problem with a mascot. Will we ever get one? Probably not, I was just saying that to not get one because it is distracting is absolutely ridiculous. That is the most absurd excuse I have ever heard. It's not like it runs out on the field in the middle of a play to give a player a hug.
Re: Bowls. The whole travel thing doesn't surprise me. What DOES surprise me is that with one of the largest alumni groups in the country, and a large contingent in both Florida and California, we don't sell more ticket allotments from Michigan transplants that live down there. I obviously don't know the numbers, and I guess that the largest alumni networks are located in Michigan, Illinois, Ohio and New York, but still.. to only get 10K to a bowl game blows my mind considering there are probably thousands and thousands of Michigan fans/alum near virtually any bowl game.
Re: talent. Meeeeechigan Dan-- I commend your analysis. No, it's not fool proof, but as I've posted over on the GBW boards numerous times re: the scout recruiting rankings of LSU v. other SEC teams (they're 3rd), it's more substantial than "LSU out-talents everyone because I say so!"
Re: MusketRebellion-- I'm good with your rant, and I hear you. But don't go overboard "ripping" the Michigan fan base because of your very specific experiences at the Big House. Sure, that's 110,000 fans, but it's a tiny slice of the real fans worldwide. I absolutely wish the Big House atmosphere was better--- as a 7 year season ticket holder (undergrad/grad), it was frustrating and I feel your pain. But Michigan's fan base isn't defined by section 20.
hahahaha how funny would it be to see Brutus hug sweatervest after a loss
Dave-
They stopped it because they felt that it was inappropriate and a distraction. Another lame excuse if you ask me. I thought it was funny.
All the cheerleaders/dance teams should be required to wear the tight maize sweaters with the blue block M and blue skirts at all times. Those look so much better than any other Michigan cheerleading uniform it's ridiculous.
1) the wave is an awful football cheer(?). It isnt loud. It doesn't do anything but look cool. Most overrated fan action in sports.
2) we had a wolverine during a season during the 20s. As in a live wolverine in a cage. that didnt last long. things are ferocious. mascots are only good for 2 things: fighting other mascots & jokes from other schools (see sparty in the holy grail parody, bucky with his oops! i lost my clothes skit at wiscy, or the existence of whatever the hell that is at penn state).
3) luxury boxes = double the sound, unfortunately they are centered across from the 20s therefore not taking full advantage of sound
Wow. People left that game in the third quarter? Let's contrast this with the OSU-Illinois game. (I know it's not the same as losing to 1-AA, but it's the closest thing I've got. I haven't seen OSU lose too often in the shoe).
Anyway, our stadium was rocking up until the last two minutes. People were jumping and screaming, making an all-out ruckus. But even in those last two minutes, most of the staduim stayed. We stayed when they jumped on the Block O (personally, I was happy to see the team remove them. Someone needs to tell Zook he's in the Big 10 now, and that SEC crap doesn't fly here). We stayed and sang Carmen Ohio after all that, because we're Buckeyes and that's what we do.
So, the point of this little story is this: what the hell is up with your fans and your stadium?
00,
Hell, I loved it. Of course, I was drunk and screaming already anyway, but what the hey.
@00goblue00--
There's a guy who posted this story on GBW awhile ago. He was sitting behind a father and son at an OSU-UM game a decade or so ago. The boy saw Brutus and said to his dad, "Dad, why don't WEEEEE have a mascot." The dad said, "real football teams don't have mascots, son."
I agree with the dad.
I am completely mystified by this Weis talk. From 2004 to 2005 ND changed coaches from Ty to Weis. There is no reason to assume the improvement had anything to do with player development with so many variables involved. Personally, I’d say they improved because Weis, given a finished product in the offense, did an excellent job calling plays and making game plans. Not to be confrontational, but this season provides an abundance of evidence that Weis has problems with player development. He himself has admitted as much. There is just no excuse in the world that can explain ND only winning 3 games.
After the AppySt. loss I sat down on the floor because I was dizzy and couldn’t breath. The only time in my life when I felt quite like that was the morning after my first girl friend broke up with me. Fortunately, my sons were joyfully destroying the house so I quickly had to focus on something else.
The ND Nation post, while interesting, contains glaring inaccuracies about Coach "Kirk Cameron." I did not know between starring on Growing Pains and bible beating/debating atheists he found time to develop Desmond Howard into a Heisman Trophy winner? Current Miami head coach CAM Cameron left the program in the early '90s for the Washington Redskins and was nowhere near Ann Arbor when the Moeller situation went down. By the same token, was Miles even there in May of 1995, or had he already become OC at Oklahoma State. Maybe the reason Cameron and Miles left were to improve their resumes since Moeller never named an offensive coordinator during his tenure (Moeller was Bo's ONLY OC, '87-'89, which was a clear indication he was being groomed for the HC position).
DanK...I know we beat Alabama in the Orange Bowl in 2000 in Brady's senior year - the game that they missed the PAT in overtime.
All the cheerleaders/dance teams should be required to wear the tight maize sweaters with the blue block M and blue skirts at all times. Those look so much better than any other Michigan cheerleading uniform it's ridiculous.
bluewolverine ('01 EECS) | 11.29.07 - 2:41 pm |
get this man a medal. by far the most truthful thing ever posted.
@ Drew
One of the differences between Nebraska's situation and ours is that Bill Callahan has been fired and will not coach anymore. Lloyd Carr still has a bowl game to coach.
Another difference is that Nebraska's candidates (only two that I know of) are Turner Gill, who is not going to a bowl, and Bo Pelini, who still has work to do but isn't a head coach.
Nobody's going to deny their assistant coaches the chance to interview for a head coaching job. But they will put a lid on their head coaches interviewing for other head coaching jobs, especially when there's another "regular season" (the SEC championship is half regular season, half postseason) game to play.
THWard-
Wouldn't be opposed to it, know we won't ever get one, don't really care if we ever do or not even though I personally think it would be funny sorry guys lol. I'm just saying the reasoning is ridiculous (not the real teams don't have mascots) but the it's distracting line annoys me.
However, the animals grew larger and more ferocious, and as Yost states, "It was obvious that the Michigan mascots had designs on the Michigan men toting them, and those designs were by no means friendly." Therefore, the practice of bringing wolverines into the stadium had to be discontinued after only one year.
http://bentley.umich.edu/athdept...mosu/
mascot.htm
Yost says no.
the reason we don't have a mascot is not that it's distracting....it that mascots are stupid and are for high school teams. end of discussion.
DanK wins the point.
But bluewolverine (as formerly noted) posted the truthiest thing all day-- cheerleaders + maize turtlenecks = A MUST.
Hey, I like the Cavalier on horseback.
But I would.
yeah yeah...so besides that orange bowl in 2000 and the [bowl redacted] in 05, we have been to 2 others: Rose & Citrus==cap1 since 1997.
DanK-
Not to argue, but distracting is the reasoning that was given by the former AD in the 70's as to why Michigan would not have a mascot (real or fake wolverine). It was not my personal opinion. Yeah a lot probably do think it's stupid, but that was definitely not the official reasoning as to why we don't have one.
I'm heading out. Have a good day everyone!
Neither Clemson or Virginia will play in the Champs Sports Bowl if B.C. loses to Va Tech on Saturday. If that happens, Clemson to the Peach Bowl and Virginia to the Gator Bowl
also, the dance team should be more heavily featured during games. they are very good at what they do. i don't think i have to tell anyone what they do....
Does this even make any sense to anyone?
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...6/71129031/
1054
Full column:
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/
content...in_les_sho.html
Well, let me tell you this. I am looking forward to seeing Les Miles beat the crap of Phil Full-of-shit-mer in the SEC game.
I was the one who first stated in these threads the following golden line, which has been used by many since then.
"We need a new Carr with Less Miles". I Rule!
the AD was Don Canham. and the distracting part may have beed directed toward the live version. i'd need to reread his biography..unless you have a handy-dandy link to post.
And you're still a douche.
Dave,
Mark Bradley is more of an Ass Clown than Drew Sharp. Do NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT believe anything he ever writes. In fact, believe the opposite. Him saying that OSU shouldn't worry means that UM will beat them the next 4 years.
DanK -
No link. Going by what my mother-in-law remembers him saying back when she was a student. Could be regarding the live version, who knows, it doesn't matter because we will never get one anyway distracting, stupid, ugly, whatever the reason. So you win because I'm done arguing about it lol.
Freep article:
Maybe it was written to fire Miles up to want to win? I don't think OSU fans should be laughing it off so easily. Yeah they beat Miles, but wasn't it while he was at Ok. State? I think LSU and Michigan are a litte different.
I found this Freep column more mystifying:
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...6/71128044/
1054
I don't think being in contention for a the MNC until November, around 0.500 in bowl games, and around 0.500 versus major rivals are "outsized expectations" for Michigan football.
also, the dance team should be more heavily featured during games.
did anyone else read this and think to themselves, hell i want more thinner attractive girls on the dance team?
*they are good, i agree, it was more to do with the heavily figured description
ATL Blue,
Sounds about right. I was wondering where you even started with that amalgamation of illogic, venom, and nonsensicality.
MusketRebellion
You are absolutely dead on concerning your assessment of our fans.
No opposing quarterback SHOULD EVER be able to audible in a stadium of 110,000 fans. The next head coach out to call the fans out and tell them if they don't help the team that he will do everything with in his power to bar them from the next game.
The time for arrogance is over. Time to go back to work!!!
P.S. Being more of an ass clown than Drew Sharp is quite an achievement.
he also says les miles has never lost more than 2 games in a year as a head coach. I know i remember those good ole days when Ok State was in the BCS bowls?
the comments on the AJC website after the full article are priceless. And who was it that tried to argue that people in the South are not dumber?
Steven:
Agreed.
If we'd simply shown up this September and WORKED for 60 minutes the Horror would not exist.
dave, that excerpt was just a poor opinion piece. top 3 in 8/9 categories can also read as: 'good but got a great team whose coaches guided them to the SEC title game' instead of 'exquisitly balanced team coached by a tea kettle.'
if they were THE #1 team is 8/9 categories, far & away, and still had a couple losses...then maybe i'd worry. i suggest no one read it. i wish i hadn't.
i mean, obviously LSU was lucky to win those 3 games.....the same way LSU was unluckey to have lost those 2 games. the same way OSU was lucky to have won 6-7 of their games in 2002.
statements like this: " LSU was lucky to have beaten Florida and Auburn and Alabama. " are why i don't read the sport section or watch sportscenter anymore.
@ MusketRebellion
I am 1 of the 50 owners of that maize and blue bus to speak of. Things you need to know before you judge. The bus is owned by 50 MBA students, any and all over 21 years olds are welcome (Michigan fan or not), but it is 90% MBA students. Also note the MBA program is a graduate 2 year program. Therefore most everyone has undergraduate degrees from other schools and have been exposed to the Michigan tradition for only a short while (for the first years, it was their first game!). We also have a very large international contingency. After the game, while a very bad loss, many people understood the severity of the loss but didn't care. They either have loyalty to their undergrad institution (like my roommate who went to Penn State) or don't really know or care about Michigan football. So Party On!
I, on the other hand, went to Michigan as an UG and was there in 97 and have seen the full pendulum swing. It was a bad loss, the most embarrassing loss ever! But people handle things differently. Some, like MSU and O$U, would clearly handle a loss like this in riot. We don't! I looked at things on the bright side, the loss was the nail in the coffin for an average at best coach that should have retired a few years ago. So for me, I partied because I know LC was gone. That was a happy thought.
the reason we don't have a mascot is not that it's distracting....it that mascots are stupid and are for high school teams. end of discussion.
At the first home game in 1997, the band did a tribute to the 20th anniversary of "Star Wars". There was a guy in a Darth Vader outfit dancing on the field.
Turns out the Vader guy wasn't part of the show, he just knew what the show was going to be and talked his way into the stadium, wearing his Halloween costume.
At that time MSU fans on other boards kept on referring to Michigan as the "evil empire" or "ee".
As the year went on and the defense was destroying opponents, some of us thought Darth Vader would have made a great mascot. If for no other reason than to piss off the MSU fans.
my favorite comment from Ass-clown Bradley's AJC column:
"What do you expect from Miles? HE IS A YANKEE. SEND HIM BACK UP THERE ABOVE THE SMITH & WESSON LINE WHERE HE BELONGS."
'nuff said.
WindyCity:
Musket was not solely assessing how Michigan fans react after a loss but how THEY FAIL TO CHEER THEIR TEAM ON DURING THE GAME. I am sorry but that bus full of people and yourself should have stayed home. You could have impacted the game just as much from your couch and saved a ton of money.
The word fan is short for fanatic. I believe whole heartedly that Michigan fans display a higher level of integrity and respect for the game and our opponents but that doesn't mean you should hear a pin drop just because OSU goes up 7-3. THAT IS ALL THE MORE REASON TO GET LOUDER!!!
I need tickets to an alumni section sometime, rile some of the old farts up, get kicked out of the stadium for loitering next to my seat.
All I ever experience is student section seats. Even now that I've moved on, I still get student tickets (thank god I still have my mcard) for next to nothing.
Not really news, but more than an ass clown opinion piece:
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...PDATE/
711290481
bigger ass clown, chengelis for writing it, or miles' agent for this:
"I have not talked to anyone up there," George Bass, Miles' agent, said Thursday morning in a telephone interview. "They haven't called, and I'm really not surprised because that's the way Michigan proceeds. There's some schools that will talk anyway (without permission), but Michigan operates the same way I do. If they call -- which they won't -- I would say, 'Hey, you have to have permission.'"
Clearly Bass does not also represent Pelini
Why we are not a premiere choice for bowl selection committees this year:
* 4-loss team.
* 2 loss streak to end the season.
* one of losses was to Div-II team.
* lame-duck head coach.
* starting QB injured.
* #1 on ESPN "most disappointing" list.
We should go to Alamo over PSU, same overall record (8-4) BUT we have better conference record and won head-to-head matchup. But we didn't sell out down there 2 years ago and for all the reasons above, I think Alamo picks PSU instead and we're going to Champs Sports.
Illinois will not go to Rose if OSU sneaks in to NC game. Rose will pick a higher-ranked team like Georgia, they don't HAVE to pick a Big Ten team anymore - like TX a few years ago instead of a Pac10 teeam. So that scenario is not going to pan out for us. As the final insult to this disappointing season, we're going to the Jr Citrus and play little brother to Illinois while they play in the "Big Citrus".
No offense intended and maybe it's not a big distinction, but we did NOT lose to a Div-II school.
Steven,
Good points. I guess what I am trying to say is that people cheer on their team or handle a loss or win in different ways that tell little about their commitment to their team. Like I said, O$U and MSU, would act like barbarians, we choose to be more civil. I go to all the games and I cheer and do the key play thing and sit when I get the opportunity. I am not loud or wear facepaint or do crazy things, but my love and commitment to the Maize and Blue is the surest thing in my life. I went to every game home and away this year despite the piss poor play of our team. I donate money despite being in huge amounts of school debt.
I am not an exception. We have a very loyal fan base and the largest living alumni association in the world (and we are not even close to the largest school in the world). A lot of the pride of being a Michigan person in the alumni association is rooted in our football tradition. We may not riot or yell, but man are we loyal. We have such high expectations of our football team which illustrates the extreme fandom we have.
Bottom line: we may not be the loudest, but our fanbase is one of the best, most loyal, and classiest in the nation!
If we end up getting an offer from the alamo, i'd rather play in the motor city bowl against MSU. With a healthy hart, and maybe henne...I would love to beat them again this year...because 'now it's personal.'
ummm...unless MSU became a MAC school, we're not going to play them in the Motor City Bowl
start up the countdown clock!
MSU kinda seems like a MAC school.
sorry txwolverine,
i thought msu was in the MAC.
That's fair enough
Could we just make a deal with the motor city and Alamo bowl? I think it would actually increase ticket sales in each event.
I HAVE GIGANTIC BALLLLLLLLLS
WindyCity, it's time to be the loudest and being the loudest doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be drunk or obnoxious.
I was so loud for the OSU-UM game, I injured my throat and came down with tonsilitis as a result. And I was watching the game at an Alumni bar.
does the extra year in the contract mean that debored has to be retained as the OC or could he be "promoted" to les miles' ball carrier?
as I sit here and read through les miles current contract, my questions/curiosities:
1) has he ever received the bonus for having the team GPA over 2.80?
2) his initials at the bottom of the page, every time i glance past, all i see is a big M.
3) Heres hoping that section 12, part C is followed on sunday (24 hour notice that hes talking to another school)
4) lol louisiana state university and agricultural and mechanical college is the full name
5)
*5) So worth the one million two hundred fifty thousand and 00/100 buy out
MSU used to be called MAC (Michigan Agricultural College), I think.
Several pieces of info that should make michigan fans very very happy!!!!
1. Miles has accepted the job
2. McGuffie is a firm UM commit no matter who the coach is
3. Cissoko is still looking solid
4. Miles will keep Jackson, Loeffler, and Campbell on staff almost certainly
For those who took Lloyd at his face value when he said that he was doing everything for the good of the program, should now at least have some doubts.
His actions show that he cares more about Mike Debord and his own animosity toward Les Miles than the good of the program.
I predicted that Lloyd would stay another year just out of spite, I was wrong, but attempting to foist Debord and Ferentz on the program appears to me to have been a spiteful move.
Dave110,
That would make me happy but what is the source for that info?
Debord is like the worst coach EVER. It's pretty much a fact. The 1997 championship team had like 8 future first round draft picks on the defensive side, one of the best defenses in history. It won in SPITE OF Debord and the offense, not because of it. It's easy to win when you allow like 9 points per game to good teams. In my mind, last years defense was about 80% as good as the 1997 team. The 2006 defense absolutely CRUSHED the run. The problem was no one taught them how to defend the spread. Last years defense shuts out this years Wisconsin and tOSU teams.
What about me, Dave110???
Signed,
Gittleson.
Boy, traffic here has gone down. The panic over the weekend b/c of Ferentz is gone. Amazing how everyone (including me) was so incensed about KF. Now that LM has all but signed on the dotted line, there isn't much buzz at all, which I assume means most people are satisfied.
this picture of Da-Bored sums him up nicely:
http://www.theangryt.com/images/
...age011_0001.jpg
My defense is going to eat up Oklahoma. Hopefully there are leftovers.
Hey, its Les Miles' theme song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=g...feature=related
1. we don't have a mascot because have you SEEN what our cheerleaders do to the opposing teams mascots? i was too focused at tOSU game and the ND game to watch for it this year, but i know for a fact in the past our cheerleaders at home games take custody of the opposing team's mascot and "ram" it into the goal post several times. i used to love it as a kid. i can only imagine what opposing teams would do to our mascot if we had one. (forgive me if this was already posted, i only skimmed through)
2. the other chris- are you a wahoo?
3. i always heard from my family in AA that Carr had heart trouble, the parkinsons is new to me.
4. i hope we don't play virginia, b/c when they are on, they are on (miami game) and they stick around until the end (every other game of the season)...they don't call them the cardiac cavaliers for nothing. i also think chris long would abuse henne.
5. brian, please...UFR!! it has been almost two weeks!
does the extra year in the contract mean that debored has to be retained as the OC or could he be "promoted" to les miles' ball carrier?
All the extra year means is he has to get paid. Miles has no obligation to keep him on the staff.
easy Proctor...blah blah blah
I don't care how many years he's been at Michigan and if he did happen to call the two bombs to Streets that won the 98 Rose Bowl, he's been a Bumbling Fuck-Ass of an offensive coordinator. We lambasted Jim Herrman for years, and he had a lot more to do with the national title than BFA did. I'm not egging his house and I'm not keying his car. I'm calling him names on the interweb. I think I am taking it easy.
Les Miles is a CEO type coach!
we all agree...
What happens when Michigan says, "you cant pay your assistants $700,000"
Whats he going to do then..the guy is dependent on his Coordinators...which is ok...but who are we going to get for 300,000 dollars?
LSU pays their assistants 600,000...
WOULD michigan ever do that?
WOULD michigan ever do that?
I'm pretty sure he and Martin might talk about in passing.
@ Anonymous-
What MRG said. I don't think Les is going to pack up the minivan with the wife and kids and be halfway to Ann Arbor before he thinks, "Huh, wonder if Martin is going to restrict my coord's salaries to 5 figures."
10-25-1902
Michigan 86 - Ohio St. 0
If only we could go back in time. I wish I could have been at this game.
Hopefully, the next UM has a goal of beating OSU this badly.
While not all stock should be placed into making a coaching decision based on what that person did against the archrival in a bowl game at a another school (John Cooper 1987 Rose Bowl), take a closer look at the 2004 Alamo Bowl:
Oklahoma State was favored; Venue is a lot closer to Stillwater than Columbus; and Ohio State had suspended its starting quarterback before the game.
Does a favored team losing on its home field to an opponent who had suspended its starting quarterback sound familiar? Carr-Tressel I, 2001.
As an Ohio State fan I am praying Michigan hires Les Miles, because if they do it will be more of the same in the best rivalry in college football. Tressel has already beaten him once in the Alamo Bowl and he will own him. He is a step down from Carr and look what Tressel did against him. Please hire him Michigan. Go Bucks.
Add "Anonymous" to the growing list of Buckeyes fans who are falling over themselves to repeat the OSU party line "PLEASE HIRE MILES!! We'll own him!!"
Wishful thinking? Groupthink?
No-- just iron clad analysis because Jim Tressel beat Oklahoma State. One time. In the Alamo Bowl... Blah blah blah.
Anonymous-- what happens when 1.) Tress beat him one time, therefore he'll own him!!! logic runs into 2.) OSU can't beat an SEC team if they're f*cking life depended on it logic? We're hiring an SEC coach, potentially, shouldn't OSU flip out? Should we hire Holtz or any person ever associated with South Carolina?
Tressel is a back stabber. All the next Michigan coach will have to do is treat the game as a statement game like Bo did against Woody.
What kind of loser goes on another team's message board and posts the same garbage that other loser Buckeye fans have been posting all day. Sounds like a defense mechanism to me.
Don't you O$U fans have some cars to wash, or pools to clean, or chinese food to deliver?
Don't forget parole officers to call
Chief Nacho-- cut them some slack. To a group of fans that don't understand what true ownership is, they cling desperately to Tressel's proverbial "ownership" of Carr.
Yay! I made an "OSU fans live in their parents' basement" joke... Huzzah!
LOL! Looking over Michigan's history and the 1902 only allowed two points on th season. Only Michigan can allow two points in a season and still lose a game.
hcs: I am a Wahoo (undergrad) and a Wolverine (grad). Mostly it works out.
Gaaa. Typos.
LOL! Looking over Michigan's history and the 1902 team only allowed two points on the season. Only Michigan can allow two points in a season and still lose a game.
why is everyone in LSU so happy that Les is about to head up to Michigan?
Look at there blogs...they are ecstatic that he's out...
+ Les wont take any of his Coordinators with him to Michigan...WHO IN THE WORLD IS GOING TO BE OUR O.C !?!
Back to more productive chatter... Can anybody describe the Les Miles style of coaching in one of two sentences? We've heard about the recruiting, and we've heard the blanket "carr-redux" statements, etc. But nobody has really gotten in to his on-the-field coaching style.
BALLS TO THE WALL BABY! That's my coaching style
Who is going to be the O.C?
FWIW, a friend of mine is a middle school football coach in Michigan. He's talked to people who have gone to football camps taught by DeBord. Word is, he is one heck of a nice guy. That doesn't make him a good coach, but it sounds like he's a good person (NOT saying he should lead Michigan).
Same people have gone to camps taught by Brian Kelly. Word on this guy is what you already know...pompus, abnoxious, nasty, full of himself. He may be a great X's and O's guy, but I think getting him to represent U-M might be a big mistake. Plus, he never has really wanted to coach at Michigan anyway.
Probably moot, given what is going on with Miles.
why is everyone in LSU so happy that Les is about to head up to Michigan?
Look at there blogs...they are ecstatic that he's out...
Because they, like any fans, are cranky after a disappointing loss and need to blame someone. One week ago, those same boards were mostly full of people saying they hoped he stayed. Not unanimously, but it's obvious the negative posters are more numerous following the Arkansas game.
Conclusion: Don't put any stock in message board sentiments.
\Only Michigan can allow two points in a season and still lose a game.//
Those damned Chicago Maroons![/Mongomery Burns]
Pick your message board. Most I've seen are filled with LSU fans reluctantly acknowledging he's on the way out and wishing it weren't so... or stating that it won't matter because they're team is still stocked with talent.
Both sentiments are probably accurate. And none are based on Miles' Oklahoma State's performance in the Alamo Bowl earlier this decade.
There are some level-headed LSU fans who appreciate what Miles has done as head coach.
Saban's recruits or not, Miles' sustained stretch of double-digit victories and winning percentage are unmatched (even by Saban). Tiger fans seemingly forgot what life was like before their MNC under Saban.
Plenty of them seem to think Lord Saban or the OBC are gonna step in if/when Miles bolts too.
Some funny stuff on those boards, but precious little in the way of anything insightful.
\Being more of an ass clown than Drew Sharp is quite an achievement.//
And yet the sports columnists at the Atlanta Urinal Constipation manage it with frightening consistency. It's lack of homegrown talent...Mark Brad;ey's from Kentucky, Terrance Moore's from Cincinnati...Furman Bisher is from close enough to the ATL (North Cackalackey) to be considered local, but he's so old he still thinks he's covering the Atlanta Crackers from the old AAA Southern League and can't understand why Bobby Jones won't return his calls for a tee time at Augusta.
The even more frightening thing is Drew Sharp is homegrown talent (at least he went to UM)
Can anybody recommend a site that gives out free recruiting updates, as an alternative to paying for Rivals or Scout?
@Blp
sure...www.mgoblog.com
varsityblue.blogspot.com does it more often than brian at this point.
Except Brian posts a recruiting update just about as often as Ryan Mallett makes a good read.. seriously, any good sites? This info should be free, considring how much I paid for my Michigan degree.
Les Miles speaks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V...h?v=Vp-
is6S_b_g
Jorel on the weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H...h?
v=HPPj6viIBmU
Miles is only as good as the guys around him!!! No way Michigan pays an O.C. 1mil...
Les needs help and michigan wont give it to him
In that video (Ice Ice Baby), Vanilla is wearing a University of Miami sweatshirt (correctly sized), zubaz pants tight at his ankles, white socks, and black loafers.
That's the coolest outfit I've ever seen.
Son of Jorel,
You idiot, that link was not Les Miles! It was Sam McGuffie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=O...feature=related
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?! Nope-Here's your new coach...
Um...anyone have BK's number
Ian-
Great points. LSU was NOT some terrfying SEC and national powerhouse prior to Saban's arrival. Florida and Tennessee were the dominant SEC programs at the time Saban arrived. Georgia was also a strong SEC team.
People forget how quickly Saban managed to build up LSU and that Miles has done a pretty good job of sustaining a similar level of success in a very tough football conference.
I haven't seen anybody comment yet on Brians prospect of UM playing Texas Tech. If that happens, you could see the first triple digit scoring in a bowl game. I wouldn't want the Bucks to play that offense, but they are the Ultimate UM Defense Nightmare.
Illinois would be picked over UM for the Rose due to recent records for both teams, you went last year, the Appy St thing, and USC/Illinois will be seen as a better match up.
I don't think tOSU will make NC game because I think we'll get jumped in the polls. But, go Sooners anyway.
If Miles is coach, better show Carr the golf course because Miles should clean house and doesn't need an Uncle at the company trying to influence hire/fire shit.
You will love this les Miles interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=3...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k...h?
v=kBd3WOdVbBQ
Hopefully Michigan does have to play Ar-Kansas anytime in the future.
@ Blp
If you have a Facebook account, there's a group called "the University of Michigan recruiting epicenter." It stays very up-to-date and often has better info than Rivals.
What about this bowl scenario:
If LSU loses to Tenn on Saturday, Tenn and Georgia will be the SEC BCS bids. In that case, is it possible the Capital One bowl will select LSU and Michigan due to the Les Miles vs. Lloyd Carr storyline? Or will the Zook UI/UF storyline + traveling fans still be enough to overrule a Michigan selection?
@SoJ
So Les Miles is Vanilla Ice is that what your post was getting at? My feeble Michigander brain cannot fathom your Buckeye posts of brilliance.
@DS
LSU is in all likelihood going to beat Tenn. and Phil Fool-mer, and with as shitty as this seasons been we should be happy with the Poulan Weedeater bowl...
He is not Fool-mer; he is Full-of-shit-mer, as I posted earlier.
"I haven't seen anybody comment yet on Brians prospect of UM playing Texas Tech"
Just because a bowl invites a team doesn't mean they have to accept (may opt for a different or later invite)
If UM did get invited to play them it might be a good idea to decline...
I saw thier comeback vs Minny last year in person and it was abosolute madness. Fun to watch, if its not your team getting utterly destroyed 10-15 yards at a time. Those fans have great spirit and a great atmosphere coming from their side of the field to boot (ie everyone really into the game, LOUD band, etc)
Question - since Tom Osborne is coming out of retirement, shouldn't he be forced to give back to Michigan the other half of that 1997 MNC that was gifted to him by his fellow coaches?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22026100/
Son of Jorel.
http://photos1.blogger.com/
blogg...eye_library.jpg
--
It's amazing how SoJ takes the average intelligence of the comments down by a huge margin single-handedly.
There have been a couple comments over the last two threads with that. I brought it up last weekend. We match up god awfully. Imagine us having to drop our linebackers into coverage. Our rush defense up the middle will be amplified because the splits tech runs are so wide you have offensive linemen spaced out nearly all the way across the field. Our secondary is ok, but their WR (Crabtree especially) are much better. Its bad enough we will have to play nickel and allow stevie brown on the field for a large portion of the game. The worst part being brought up later (i beleive ThWard or MRG, sorry if it was someone else) brought up the insanity of running a dime defense with doug dutch.
Offense I'm no less worried about. As proof in the OU game, if you score on tech, they aren't phased, they'll just march right back down and score themselves. Not scoring on tech (also known as conservative non scoring offense) is death.
Hehe. I've seen son of Jorel before. Youtube that S@!t.
@JHS
I'm not saying that M vs. LSU is a scenario I would like to see, just wondering if it is at all a possibility. And after this season, while it may not be like that LSU will lose this weekend, it's certainly not an impossibility. In that case, is it possible that Citrus would choose M and LSU? I'm guessing Citrus would still choose Illinois, right?
I don't like "Citrus Jr."
Kumquat Bowl makes more sense.
like = likely
mmmm...kumquat
IMO, Zook/UF would clearly be elected over UM/LSU. Illinois has played better, the TV market will be greater, and the Illini are coming off 2 wins; the tOSU win helps them.
On second thought, UM vs TTech won't happen because UM won't set themselves up for a disaster. I'm not being a snob (I don't want OSU to face 'em either, it's like playing arena ball and we're a running team first, throw later if necessary) but that's IMO.
"UM vs TTech won't happen because UM won't set themselves up for a disaster"
UM did CHOOSE to play appy state... A spread team that we had nothing to gain by playing and a HUGE HUGE amount to lose...
Possibly the most pointless article I've ever read:
http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/
...as_contact.html
@DS -
I agree The Ill/Fla matchup is better to the bowl because they have both been hot has of late, zook storyline, tebow heisman perhaps, etc.
If lsu loses to Tenn and played UM it would be two teams who had just lost 2 games in a row, not exactly compelling to all the mouth breathers out there.
Unless Ill. somehow goes to the BCS they will in all likelihood be in the bowl formerly known as citrus.
@TX
love the comment from that article:
"I think LES can take Michigan MILES above the competition."
Gnarls,
You make a GREAT point. My guess, however, is that Nebraska gets the A.P. title THIS year because this is really Osbourne's last time as coach. I mean they did put up 50+ on Colorado.
@JHS
It definitely beats "UM needs a new Carr with..."! I can't even finish the sentence I'm so sick of reading it.
Maybe UM will win the AP title this year as a send off for Carr...
@TX
No kidding. Its SOOOOO stupid. It should be FEWER miles, dammit!
Harbaugh,
I would've loved to see if we made the title game last year if Carr announced he was retiring after the OSU game. Though we pretty much proved we didn't belong, it's not like anyone would know otherwise if we went.
Idea for les t-shirts. How about a picture of an odometer with
2008' Lesticle
00000000 Miles
@Ben
Good point - but after the tongue bath Danielson gave UF during the SECCG there was no way UM was getting to the Title Game. Perhaps this year Danielson will try to convince voters to put LSU in the game.
Side note - Gary Danielson sucked on the Lions, and thats just another reason why I hate him.
@mgobleu
That may be the angriest I've ever seen someone over a grammatical error. I fear that you'll drive the "conjunction junction" train over the next person that says it :)
Appy St was a freak. Nobody cared what kind of offense, defense or anything else they played when that was scheduled. TTech's style of play is being nervously watched by all top programs. Someone will find a consistent answer to it or borderline programs may morph into their style because it is clearly (cue John Cleese) "And now, for something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT" that is exciting and produces wins.
I used to drive from Roswell, NM to Lubbock to shop regularly. It's really hard to recruit kids to Lubbock, because, uh, well it's Lubbock. But what an exciting program to join if you play anywhere on the offense.
I don't remember the UF game so I can't recall what Danielson said. Yes I believe he was drafted in 84 along with a whole lot of great players who ended up doing well...another great pick by the lions!
I'm sure if les is indeed the new coach some moron at ESPN/ABC/Mikey Mouse will say "Hey it looks like they got a new Carr with Les Miles!" The co-anchor will chuckle and all the UM fans will groan and die a little inside.
@ ben
I've been wondering all year, if we DID get the spot instead of FLA, win or lose, and now with Ill resurfacing, how many of these idiots would be calling the big ten the conference to beat and the SEC (with no one better than 6-2) in a down year.
@mgobleu -
if they were saying the big ten was the conference to beat they're opinions surely would have changed after THE HORROR.
mgobleu,
exactly. If we win, then Carr would've retired...we probably wouldn't have lost to App St. If we lose, then OSU is viewed as a dynasty and they are maybe even ranked ahead of west virginia right now. wow. it's great to know that politicking can control so much.
@Harbaugh
I've considered that an abboration, and have erased it from my memory bank, thank you.
(By the way, am I an ass if I sell my app st ticket stubs on ebay?)
I threw my App State ticket stub away and am $300 poorer for it now...
Balls.
Illinois sounds like a team a BCS bowl would have to be desperate to take, but look at the options. It is VERY likely they are taken. Remember only 2 teams from the SEC and the Big 12 can go, which means Florida is out, as is one of Kansas/Mizz/Oklahoma. Hawaii is in if they win, leaving one open spot for a runner up of the Pac 10, Big 10, ACC and Big East. Illinois would trump the Big East runner up for sure, and probably the ACC runner up (either the VT/BC loser or Clemson). It comes down to Illinois vs the Pac 10 champ. If OSU goes to the title game, its very possible the Rose Bowl would scoop them up. Otherwise it is still possible that USC or Arizona state lose in which case Illinois would go anyway.
@ATL Blue
thanks for finding:
"What do you expect from Miles? HE IS A YANKEE. SEND HIM BACK UP THERE ABOVE THE SMITH & WESSON LINE WHERE HE BELONGS."
Best thing I've ever read. Now who was saying that Northerners are just as dumb as Southerners?
HOLY CRAP!!!!!! $300????
I'VE GOT 2 OF THEM!!!!
I can only imagine how many "less miles" jokes the man has already endured.
I knew a Ralph Ucker. Say it fast. Gee, thanks Mom & Dad Ucker.
"Appy St was a freak. Nobody cared what kind of offense, defense or anything else they played when that was scheduled."
I guess now they probably know that they should have, lol.
"TTech's style... is exciting and produces wins."
It definitely seemed like everyone on their side of the field was having a BLAST. Thier band kicked ass in terms of effecting the atmosphere and getting things hyped up. I felt so bad for the Minny fans. lol
Even with the plays, I don't know if anyone could duplicate their "gameday experience" It really was fun to watch. No gray-haired old ladies (and old guys) cluttering the stands either.
Musket,
PLEEEEEEEASE tell me you're serious. If you are, I'm gonna post those puppies TONIGHT!
Right next to my Rose Bowl tickets...
Pecoshelga:
At least his name wasn't Littleboyph Ucker or Sheeph Ucker.
What's a "Ral" anyways?
If I was given that name I would give it to all of my children because of the animosity I would carry to my grave.
My girlfriend who goes to Little Brother University said that their newspaper (which is far inferior to the Daily even though they actually have a journalism school) had an article about it and that was the amount.
He goes by his middle name, understandably.
I heard Bill Martin will NOT hire Les Miles until he has contacted lesser known AAA coach Todd Lerfondler.
But, if you sell them you have to sell them under either of these two names:
WolverineTears07
-or-
SadPandaFacedInAA
Mike Hart not even on the 3rd team all-american list? That means 6 RBs are better than him? I hope it's b/c of the injury and not b/c of his ability and stats, at least early on...
Tod Lerfondler - LOL! Had to look it up online though :)
I happily burned those tickets right after the game. I stand by my decision, I don't care if they are worth money or not. All of the buyers are either going to be MSU or OSU fans.
No, seriously I did check once and some guy had some up to like 8 bucks. Wonder if they shot up late in the auction...
Bada Bing,
Probably MSU fans because OSU fans just spent their life savings on the App. St. t-shirts. "Dang, what was i thinkin"
@Samsoccer
Mike Hart wasn't on the list because he's short, I mean he's short right. That short guy, you know the short one. I have the psyche of an infant. Short, like really short. I can't believe they let me control a BCS conference school, but I'm not short. That's it, he's too short. Short, short, SHORT, short...
So short.
@Musket
So, Mike Hart...you're saying he's short?
Nah, OSU fans spend all their money on "F!@K MICHIGAN!" shirts.
Illinois fans too...
On Ferentz, wasn't he Iowa's fallback after Bob Stoops turned them down? Stoops probably had even more ties to Iowa football, with his family lineage (his grandfather was buried in his Iowa uniform), than Miles does with Michigan, and probably had Hayden Fry's full public support. Stoops was able to make a career decision not just on emotion but also on money, facilities and opportunity to compete for a national title. Maybe Miles isn't a shoo-in to accept as everone thinks especially if Lloyd's not going to support him and Miles would be left with trying to motivate and earn respect from a group of kids who by all accounts were very loyal and devoted to Lloyd.
Illannoy = Massive inferiority complex.
Remember when Daniel Horton dumped 37 points on them a few years back (when they were still good) and the crowd chanted "Just like football" over and over again. I giggled.
Uh, eBay has them at $15 for unused, and $7.51 for used.
http://search.ebay.com/search/se...cket&
category0=
"Nah, OSU fans spend all their money on "F!@K MICHIGAN!" shirts.
Illinois fans too..."
I present my evidence...
(pecoshelga, you'll love this.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1...h?
v=1h_lxJHL9Ac
15.00, that just shows the journalistic integrity of the State News, either that or my girlfriend is a liar. I should probably check into that.
39 points, MusketRebellion. The most any single person had scored on them all year. It was glorious.
I don't want to come off as a LC hater, because I kinda am. I respect that he has been a solid leader...but he put himself over UofM a few too many times and that is unacceptable.
@ben
Not gonna lie...you kinda come off like a LC hater
TX wolverine,
lol. Yeah I did like him in 97 but that's about it. No i'm kidding. I actually do respect him...but it just seems that he has no problem putting his own personal feelings with players/coaches over what is best for the university...and that just bothers me i guess.
Can someone prove how crowd noise equates to winning games? I would love a loud crowd, but the big house has never at any point been a consistently loud venue yet the team has a great home winning %.
Section_6,
I'm not sure there are any statistics out there that say crowd noise 'wins' you the game. But it certainly doesn't help the opponent. If a crowd is extremely loud, players have a tougher time hearing the snap count...which could either lead to a penalty or it eliminates the advantage over the defense of knowing when the play starts. If the QB audibles, it is tougher to hear the audible and may actually make an unsure less confident about what play they are running. Crowd noise probably provides a nice adrenalin rush as well.
unsure player*
@ Section6
Seattle Seahawks have a 12th man flag, blah, blah and when they are howling (which is usual, but not always) the crowd literally CAUSES encroachments & bad snaps for the opposition. It does matter. If your QB doesn't have a system of hand signals and he likes to call plays at the line it results in disaster.
@ ccarr:
Stoops turned down Iowa for Oklahoma...a school with much greater tradition, winning history, etc. Stoops turned down the inferior program. Miles decision isn't as hard because Michigan is not Iowa. The two situations do not compare.
Boy, if there's one thing that's been a serious problem for Michigan, it's that Lloyd has been such a narcissistic, me-first kind of coach.
Jesus Fucking Christ on a Sit-N-Spin.
@mgobleu
That was interesting. My roommate in college unfortunately dated a lot of those types. Not good.
Sadly, if one plays some of the "drinking games" I see posted here on game days the results might be similar yet in different apparrel...
However, the music was splendid. You guys really need a song.
@Section_6
I tried to throw together a little data to support/refute the fact that a loud crowd gives you a bigger home field advantage.
Obviously, people argue that The Big House doesn't really give the team a home field advantage. On the flip side, LSU has one of the loudest stadiums in the country.
I went back to 2000 and compared Michigan's and LSU's home records (since LSU sucked prior to 2000). LSU had a 49-7 (0.875) home record and UM had a 46-8 (0.852) home record. Assuming all else equal, you could argue that loud crowd noise isn't a huge factor in deciding games.
Obviously, however, there are several other variables involved and I did this analysis in 5 minutes, so there.
Les Miles grew up in Elyria, Ohio. Us Yankees never really get used to living in the South.
He's coming back!!!
Uh, not to rain on anyone's parade but NONE of the candidates have a better winning percentage than "you-know-who" (yup, LC).
BTW, I passionately think LC must go!!
there are only 6 coaches that have a better percentage...and I'm those 6 didn't have a better one until they arrived at the more prominent school.
When I was looking over Miles' contract last night, I thought there was a section that noted that neither he NOR HIS AGENT could discuss another coaching vacancy without LSU's permission.
Mike74--there are a million ways around these clauses.
a loud crowd will get you 2 false starts + 1 burned TO per game at most....i meat at the very most. usually it's one FS and maybe one more TO. i'm just not sure that would lead to any more victories.
i've been to plenty of OSU, ND, MSU games (and others...Washington, Colorado) when the crowd was mind numbingly loud thu-out the game. just like sparty & ohio stadium when M visits. there are a handful of stadia that are really loud: ohio, tenn, lsu (well 75% of the SEC), aggieland, etc. the M crowd is subdued sometimes...but not when it's a big game and the offense scores more than one FG.
@DarkKnight
Yup, sure hope we all are not saying in a couple of years "be careful what you wish for"
FWIW, Page 9 notes:
Unless notice has been given COACH by the UNIVERSITY of COACH's termination pursuant to Section 13 of this Contract, neither COACH nor his agent shall, under any circumstances, discuss or negotiate directly or indirectly his prospective employment with any other institution of higher education or professional athletic team without giving at least 24 hours prior written notice to the Athletic Director.
Some people need to stop and think for a minute. Almost everyone agrees that the SEC is usually a deeper conference than the Big Ten. That means that there are more loseable games on the schedule (and that the grind of playing so many can catch up to you). LSU has gone 11-2, 11-2 and 10-2 under Miles the last three years. Put in the Big Ten, which has been weak the last few years (so much so that *Ron Zook* is heralded as a bright coaching name), and those 11-2 teams probably go 12-1, or maybe even 13-0.
The search committee was ostensibly just formed two days ago. I just don't see it as remotely likely that Miles is announced as our coach next week (if ever). We all know that Lloyd does not want Les. Now that Lloyd's plan to bring on Ferentz has been foiled (at least for now), isn't it plausible that Martin will buy some time for Lloyd to identify another candidate that is an alternative to Miles but would be ok to fans and boosters. Given that the alleged "search" has just begun, I just don't see Martin hiring Miles over Lloyd's objection so early in the process. They have upwards of a month to work on this before we need to announce a coach and still leave time to work the recruits before signing day.
In addition, it is clear that LSU isn't just going to let Les walk (assuming they win the SEC...if they don't, all bets are off). They said they will make him an offer he can't refuse. If LSU offers Miles upwards of $4M a year (Saban money) and long-term job security, I find it hard to believe--even if his heart is with UM--that he would accept UM's offer of somewhere no higher than probably $2.5M a year. LSU will probably give him like 48 hours to take the deal--since they need to begin their own search if necessary. How can Michigan make an offer to Miles that quickly when our alleged "search" just started?
It seems to me that this is a long way from over and that many are reading way too much into the fact that Martin has been given permission to talk to Miles.
Belien makes $2.5M a year. Martin already stated the basketball coach will not make more than the football coach.
3 things are a problem to your stadium noise:
1) Too many of the rich buy tickets as a badge of status or get them from the corp after which they sit on their hands or politely clap as if they are at the symphony. Maybe the alum is a true fan, but his/her spouse/buddy is just THERE, pretty much. I've bought those seats from scalpers and I once moved because I thought, "Shit, this is like watching it in my livingroom." I moved a little closer to the end zone where folks were cheering.
2) Stadium design: Big House noise doesn't seem to funnel down and you are spread away from the field with no upper deck.
3) IMO Student sections should be the best seats. No matter the venue, the student sections are loudest. I know this won't happen and yes, I know why. But, I think if you pay the overpriced tuition that while you're there you deserve to be the 12th man.
p.s. And damn that 9-11 crap where smuggling in hootch is now a research project. Ah, for the good ol' days...
@ hat
Ohhh, pleeeezze.
Based on your analysis, Tressel would never have been hired cause he only coached in Division I-AA.
"Les Miles grew up in Elyria, Ohio. Us Yankees never really get used to living in the South."
speak for yourself. It's margaritas and senoritas forever for me... (and steadily increasing home values, better employment opportunities, etc.)
To think shopping for a new coach started up after Carr's anouncement is folly.
Until LSU's bowl game is determined nothing will happen. Whether Miles is hired or not, the PERCEPTION is that he is the front runner and yeah they may contact others but the Miles thing will drive the timing of the process until he either is announced as coach or eliminated/declines. If Carr is given a position of "Uncle" over this program you are doomed to a 3rd tier candidate.
"I just don't see it as remotely likely that Miles is announced as our coach next week."
Agreed. Except the remotely part. I don't think it likely. But it could happen.
"We all know that Lloyd does not want Les. Now that Lloyd's plan to bring on Ferentz has been foiled (at least for now), isn't it plausible that Martin will buy some time for Lloyd to identify another candidate that is an alternative to Miles but would be ok to fans and boosters."
The fact is, if not Miles, how many other coaches with his stature and record of success are available and would consider coming to UM? Considering the pressure of the position, and the fact the fans/boosters/money guys are spoiled and will likely bounce thier ass out of town with anything less than 2 loss seasons or better for more than 2-3 years (or at minimum a 50-50 record vs OSU), I doubt many coaches would really like to come to A2 and deal with that kind of pressure and job INsecurity.
"They have upwards of a month to work on this before we need to announce a coach and still leave time to work the recruits before signing day"
I don't see Martin being the type to wait around to pull the trigger if no other strong candidates are identified... (or strong candidates willing to come to A2) Lets face it, if no one else looks interested/realistic, waiting around only hurts the program.
"If LSU offers Miles upwards of $4M a year (Saban money) and long-term job security, I find it hard to believe--even if his heart is with UM--that he would accept UM's offer of somewhere no higher than probably $2.5M a year."
Are you serious? Some things are worth more than money. I don't think it would be too much to assume that for Les this would be one of those things.
"It seems to me that this is a long way from over and that many are reading way too much into the fact that Martin has been given permission to talk to Miles."
Agreed people might be celebrating prematurely.
"3) IMO Student sections should be the best seats. No matter the venue, the student sections are loudest. I know this won't happen and yes, I know why. But, I think if you pay the overpriced tuition that while you're there you deserve to be the 12th man."
Seriously, best idea ever. If only there was a way it would work. I have thought about this as well - wouldn't it be great if UM made the first 10rows or whatever around the bottom student seats only? Of course then the students love of kegs would cause them to sell those tickets to the oldsters for crazy beer money never before heard of. I know I would have (heck I would have had enough left over to buy tickets higher up too)
Why not make all seating open seating? (First come first serve)... of course there goes all the seat licensing and donor levels stuff...
Daniel L. - that info on Belein's salary is helpful, but there will still probably be a difference of at least $1M a year between what LSU will offer Miles (if they win on Sat.) and what we will offer. LSU's AD said they will do whatever it takes to keep Miles.
My thought is that we are asking for permission to interview Miles because we have to interview Miles--he is a legit candidate, to appease boosters and fans, and out of respect for Miles. It would not look like a bona fide "search" if we didn't interview him--but I don't think that means it is a done deal. Again, I don't see Martin hiring Miles over Lloyd's objection without giving Lloyd a chance to drum up an alternate candidate to Miles. Why would Martin publicly annouce that this will be a thorough search and that the search committee just met for the first time two days ago, only to announce Miles as the coach next weeek? I'm not buying it.
When LSU said they have no intention of letting him get away, I think they mean it. This is a state where congressmen keep thousands in cash in their freezer. They are going to back a dumptruck full of cash up to Miles's house--enough to make him think twice.
Louisville is getting Kragthorp'd and I love it!
Papa Johns sucks too!
I'm so glad Lloyd and Debord are gone. No more watching their sorry asses lose us game. See ya Lloyd. Now stay the hell away from our coaching search!
@ Murl and 97 Alum---do you guys belong to any insider websites? Because there is a LOT of info out there that is saying pretty much the exact opposite of what you two are saying
Also Murl--why do you believe everything Martin says to the press? He has known LC was retiring since September. Things have been going on behind the scenes for months. All of this stuff is done through backchannels
DarkKnight - Nope. But if you share, then I would.
I almost totally disagreed with him - so how could they be saying thing different than both of us?
I did say it could happen quickly (but "maybe" not likely), and that I didn't see martin waiting around if there was no reason... and as for the celebrating prematurely, all I said was "might".
I have thought in my gut Miles to UM was a done deal for a long time for the record. All the other stuff is window dressing IMO.
IMO he has been waiting a long time to come back... I don't see any amount of money getting in his way...
@Willie Heston,
Where do you live? I could use a drink and broad right now.
1) based on the things i've read (mostly from brian) the HC salary is not much of an issue. the $$ issue is his freedom to pay big time dough to his OC&DC. that is a legit concern, but one that Martin will understand is a necessary expenditure. (i hope & expect anyway)
2)Based on all the 'insider' info coming from brian, rivals & scout boards, and Tom Beaver himself...this is all but a done deal. Beaver himself said that the way this has gone down is a real indication that the power seems to have shifted to BM. this is something TB would have been surprised at if you told him this a year ago. via wtka this AM.
3)the committee formed when? on monday? they get a list of guys & discuss for a couple days. talk to some people who worked w/ him, etc. a couple days later, they say, hey, BM: these are the top 3-5 guys and most of us think Miles really is the 1st guy you should contact.* BM says yeah, that's what we've been hearing all along too, thanks for the confirmation...what about his or that issue? OK well, we'll start there. remember...things have been in the works in some way or another for most of the last 2 months.
4) if miles really is the guy, then i think this will move fast mostly b/c it's in LSUs best interest to find their next guy ASAP. everyone needs to move quickly in the best interest of everyone involved....M, LSU, Miles, the LSU staff, the M staff.
the bottom line is, tho....too many people have said 'it's all but a done deal.' and not just b/c of the public permission to contact him stuff that came out last night. maybe it's all a huge smokescreen.....but i think occams razor applies here.
*(I would hope that Urban & Stoops were at least considered & approached behind closed doors, but that's just me i guess)
DP:
Austin, TX
(the chicks are dynamite down here)
Texas girls are so hot.
I don't get the Urban Meyer hype. He's a smug, self serving asshole that would NEVER fit in at UM. Bob Stoops, sure. But he LOST TO COLORADO AND TEXAS TECH. Surely that is no worse than Kentucky and Darren McFadden...I mean Ar-Kansas.
My personal list:
Les Miles
Chris Peterson
Bob Stoops
Tommy Tuberville
Any word on McGuffie?
DanK - I hear what you are saying. I think also people over estimate how many candidates fulfill both being of legitimate interest to UM who would also be willing to step into the pressure of A2.
I have no doubt when Lloyd said "I will be as involved as BM wants me to be" he was telling the truth... And either BM would listen to him (Ferentz) or not (Miles). Now we think probably not.
Agreed also it would be at UM, LSU and both staffs not to delay too much if that is what is going to happen.
The chances OSU took in regards to allegations against Tress (compounded by rumored NFL aspirations) isn't something UM will most likely consider stomaching by looking too long at Kelly.
As illogical as it is, ever since during a game the broadcasters incorrectly referred to Lloyd as "last of the schembechler gang" sold me that it was going to be Miles.
@Daniel L
Tommy Tuberville just signed an extension he ain't going anywhere.
things look good with McG
Even if Jackson leaves?
I believe Les Miles will win but listening to some of his youtube clips, he fails to articulate thought. I'm not sure if his brain is numb from coaching or if he just cannot communicate well.
It is going to be HUGELY interesting to see how all the recruiting works out... How many we retain... How many follow Miles to UM...
If Miles can pull some key recruits with him, not only would it help shore up some of our bigger targets who are on the fence, but we might have a couple late suprises (big names who are still uncommitted).
It will be a nice change of pace to not have a philosopher-poet as coach, but instead someone who cares more about winning.
I know Tuberville just AGREED to an extension, not signed. But his buyout is fucking huge anyway. I think he's a very underrated coach, and his Auburn teams PUNISH other teams. Look at the record of teams the week after playing Auburn, it's pretty sick.
"It will be a nice change of pace to not have a philosopher-poet as coach, but instead someone who cares more about winning."
I for one am totally jacked at the idea of having a former OL as HC. Having played OL/DL in HS and DL in college, linemen and especially OL are the heart and soul of most really great teams. Other guys get the stats, the glory and the facetime but the true heart and soul is generally up front. (with some exceptions)
"I believe Les Miles will win but listening to some of his youtube clips, he fails to articulate thought. I'm not sure if his brain is numb from coaching or if he just cannot communicate well."
I always cringed at Carr's sentence structure during interviews(and didnt he major in English at No. MI?). They always had to clean it up a lot to get it coherent for publishing on MGOBlue.com
Les's lack of articulation doesn't bother me.
Seriously, with so much info on coaches now available, they are ultra-scrutinized. I mean, what if we had video and sound clips of Bo available in '68? Would we be raising eyebrows despite the promise of a rising younger coach?
Tuberville's buyout is $6mil IIRC, whatever school wants him is gonna have to have some deep pockets. To me he is just another Carr, in that he had a magical run in 2004, but he always seems to lose (at least) one head scratcher a year. I'll give him credit though he owns 'Bama.
"It will be a nice change of pace to not have a philosopher-poet as coach, but instead someone who cares more about winning."
I totally agree. Carr was an "accidental coach". His legacy could have been so much better if he had been committed to having the best coordinators possible--that was his tragic downfall.
The last few years have sucked mostly, but Carr did steward the ship well enough to keep us out of a post-BO death spiral of doom. Just look at Miami, Neb, ND, or Alabama.
My understanding is that those in the know feel pretty good about Jackson's chances of retention. If he stays, we should be okay with McGuff.
i think the pressure in A2 is actually less compared to most other BCS level places. as bad as LCs record has been over the last 5-6 years, he wasn't forced out, fired, encouraged to leave, or anything close to that. the simple fact is, M hasn't fired a coach for W/L record (overall or vs OSu/ND/MSU or in bowls) since harry Kipke in 1937. as Don Canham said, 'if there's one way to get fired at Michigan, it's to cheat.'
who thinks stoops doesn't feel pressure to beat tex and win the B12? or mack brown to beat OU, A&M...or anyone in the SEC to go 12-1? i think the pressure is the same everywhere. hell, nutt got canned at Ark for only winning 8-9 games a year. and he was an alum, iirc. mason got canned at Minn for getting them to a bowl games 'only' 8/9 years. there are 3 outliers re: pressure, imo: osu is an extreme outlier and M, PSU are extreme outliers on the other end of the spectrum.
and i got the impression that M + Miles - FJ == no matrix.
i figured that was bad news, b/c Miles + FJ seem to be mutually exclusive. if you keep one, the other won't be here.
"Carr.. His legacy could have been so much better if he had been committed to having the best coordinators possible--that was his tragic downfall."
Also, in recent years, it seemed we lost the committment to having a dominant OL... One of UMs trademarks in the past.
I look for Miles to re-establish that.
Also, agree with everything DanK posted.
Except that Miles and FJ are mutually exclusive. My understanding is that they will be working together next year, although perhaps not frollicking together in free time.
T,
where did you hear either
A) miles would keep FJ, or
B) that FJ would definately stay if Miles is HC?
"who thinks stoops doesn't feel pressure to beat tex and win the B12? or mack brown to beat OU, A&M...or anyone in the SEC to go 12-1? i think the pressure is the same everywhere"
I would agree with similarity. But why would stoops or someone similar venture into a completely new pot of boiling water... when they are already accustomed to the one they have...
Plus UM fans are already up in arms. For someone who isn't connected to UM like Miles the pressure might be a bit more and the leash a bit shorter.
With our returning depth (or lack of moreso) the upcoming year might be a bit rough. Especially if there is any interference from the previously in house regime. I hope fans don't go jumping off the deep end if there are a few kinks along the way...
Carr's undoing was Mike Debord.
Debord's only USP for the job is "I have Bo in me"
de-BO-rd
"I hope fans don't go jumping off the deep end if there are a few kinks along the way..."
I assure you there will be, likely next year. Hart, Henne, Long and Mario will be sorely missed.
..out of here. Goodnight.
"I assure you there will be"
Don't we all know. lol
I remeber old guys on the street saying to me "FIRE LLOYD!" as far back as 98-99. Not that the whole Henson business wasn't enough to make one lose it in and of itself.
If you get Miles and Carr stays in some sort of influential office, don't be surprised if the first Miles hire is a special teams coach...just to prove a point.
"But why would stoops or someone similar venture into a completely new pot of boiling water... when they are already accustomed to the one they have..."
b/c in A2, you won't get fired for going 8-5/9-4 in a couple years over a 5-6 year span. no matter what the osu, bowl, ND, MSU records are. at MINIMUM, M will honor the contract thru it's duration. more than any other, the M HC practically gets a lifetime appointment(like the Supreme court). especially if you have some really good success ( B10 titles, RB appearances) and don't cheat/urinate in public.
JHS,
I believe you are badly underestimating Tuberville. He is the real deal. His teams play nasty defense and like Miles he gets good coordinators and lets them coach. I've met him a couple of times and think highly of him, a no BS stand up guy. If there were any chance to get him, I would try. I think he is the best coach in the SEC along with Meyer and Spurrier (and maybe Saban).
I've heard his name in connection with the UCLA job should/when it become(s) available, but what about Steve Mariucci for the UM job? I know he's got strong ties to East Lansing and Tom Izzo, but hey, Bo coached at tOSU before coming to UM...
pecos:
I am one Michigan fan that would be seriously excited if Miles came in and hired a competent full-time special teams coach to improve our performance in that crucial phase of the game.
Michigan has simply had far too many screwups in the special teams game over the past 7 years, and our inability to find a consistent kicking game is an inexcusable flaw in the world of big time college football.
' "I assure you there will be"
Don't we all know. lol'
oh lord, yes....i recall seeing FIRE LLOYD shirts in 2003. ya know, when they won the outright B10 title and went to the RB shellaking OSU, ND, MSU along the way.
i know ST were crazy that year....but dang. 10-3, 2 road losses to decent teams and 1 RB loss to the MNC.
"and no school in the country defies those as frequently and dramatically as Ohio State."
uhmm... Michigan state circa 1980's, nebraska circa 1980's and 1990's...
uhh...
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
STEROIDS!
"in A2, you won't get fired for going 8-5/9-4 in a couple years over a 5-6 year span. no matter what the osu.."
I don't know man. Maybe. The guys we have had since Bo have been all M guys. Do you really think the same would be extended to a guy that is a gamble and an outsider like BK? Especially in regards to OSU. Opinion of the fanbase really change when Lloyd started dropping game after game to Tressel.
@ pecoshelga
Miles won't have a special teams coach in his budget.
We severely over-estimate the importance of a special teams coach. There are about 15 teams in the nation that actually have one. If we get a coach that can turn our highly-touted recruits into highly-touted players, I'll be happy.
well, 97....that's a hypothetical (and thus meaningless), but perhaps a fair one nonetheless. i'll play:
even if BK were hired, he'd get a 5-6 year deal minimum, yea? so sure, if he goes 2-4/1-5 vs OSU, only 1 B10 title and is generally 9-4 every year...i could see his contract not getting renewed (like the Amaker situation). but fired? no way.....especially w/ BM as AD.
but really, i think that would be the case w/ miles too. if he gets the same 6 year deal and basically goes 9-4 every year but 1 or 2 he'll be out the door too. & rightfully so.
maybe its been mentioned in this thread but over at rivals there are threads hinting if Miles is the coach there is no shot that English comes back, has anyone heard that or am I reading the tea leaves wrong?
that last past was by gmb, i had just run crap cleaner
see, replace RE w/ FJ and thats what i heard....
Nothing against Tuberville I just don't think he is an upper echelon coach, he's a good coach and seems like a good person too. But, I see a lot of Lloyd Carr in him from the stand point that Auburn like Michigan always seems to have one (or more bizarre loss) a year.
I think he's a good coach probably 3rd or 4th best in the SEC, but there are quite a few guys I'd take over him.
For my money I'd say Pete Carrol is the best big game coach in the business right now, but I'm probably in the minority there. We'll find out a lot more about him and Sweatervest in the home and home USC/OSU have scheduled over the next 2 years.
DanK--that isnt the info I have seen from insiders. FJ is IN and that is why McGuff is too.
seriously, pony up the 10 bucks per month. I find it to be well worth it.
FJ is not going anywhere and its unlikely mcguffie is either.
Slogan?
Say "Les" to Michigan!
seems like gmb reads the same place i do...
JHS,
In thinking of possibilities, I have assumed the untouchables are Carroll, Sweater Vest, Meyer and Stoops. Some I like better than others, but all are clearly elite coaches in great situations.
One of reasons I am high on Tuberville (and frankly, it makes me feel better about Miles, even though I have my doubts) is the depth of quality coaches in the SEC. I said on an earlier thread, nobody gets more sick of "the SEC is great/Big Ten sucks/speed/Yankees/blah/blah" than I do. But if Tuberville or Miles can produce nine to eleven wins regularly against Meyer/Spurrier/Saban/etc., they must be good. Frankly, after Sweater Vest there is a major drop in HC quality in the Big Ten.
see, why pay $10 a month when i get such up to date info from you fine gentlemen?
and i just read that tubberville is going to Ark to replauce Nutt. WTF kind of conference is that?
@ Bill---what about Richt? I am a big supporter of bringing Miles here, but Richt was a guy that I would of loved to have if we couldn't have Miles.
Dank...I figured that would be your response haha.
Where is the Tubberville info coming from? any link?
slogan?
Say 'NO' to Slogans.
What about keeping Vance Bedford as the DB's coach?
Coached and developed the secondary of the century in '97.
Came in this year and transformed an expected positional weakness into a strength.
grrr....make me go back in my browser history...
http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/...7.113371&
spID=3
Dark Knight,
Oversight completely. Very solid coach and very solid citizen.
M&B Dave has a great summary of the staff and who might be kept. honestly, i'd be OK w/ keeping everyone but the big 3.
"Obviously, people argue that The Big House doesn't really give the team a home field advantage. On the flip side, LSU has one of the loudest stadiums in the country."
Ahh, hello, Newman!
Have you been to Michigan games vs. Notre Dame, Michigan State, Ohio Stete, or any other big game?
Our stadium this year, against OSU was MUCH louder than the MSU stadium vs. Michigan this year -- and we got stomped. The entire (well almost) crowd stood the entire game. Much the same vs. ND until the beatdown was out of hand in the 2nd quarter.
Did you watch the LSU fans in the R-Kansas game? They sat on their asses the whole game. A game that, if they win, they're playing in the National Championship game.
I agree that for token games, the Michigan crowd can be subdued. But, for any big game, the crowd is into it. Some of that noise is lost from the shallow bowl in comparison to State or Ohio Stadium. As for LSU I've never been there, but they play most of their games at night, and have plenty of time to get liquored up before the game. As you know, most of our games are at noon. Although we may get some night games here or there after the renovations, and with Miles as Coach.
I have heard nothing about Tuberville and U of M. I'm just a fan of both. The only comment I heard was on Birmingham radio. Al Del Greco (Auburn alum and long time Oilers/Titans kicker who has a show) was asked about Tuberville going to A&M. His opinion was A&M is a step down from Auburn. His partner then asked about U of M. "He wouldn't go. That's a lateral move." I like Auburn. Married into an Auburn family. Usually make a game each year. But I almost wrecked my car. Damn, it sucks to live in Alabama in the fall.
bill..that's funny... they go 13-0 a few years ago w/ some solid teams around that and all of a sudden that eclipses 100+ years of history. if that tubberville to ARK story pans out, it'll be interesting to see what AUB does w/o him and w/ Saban @ Bama. prediction: pain.
DarkKnight...I don't think the powers that be at UM would want Richt here sending his whole team out to celebrate after a TD. Maybe that's just me.
That said, I'd love to see the whole team go out to celebrate next year after our first TD vs. OSU...Miles included
I'd like to eat sum chocolate covered roasted buckeyes.
does anyone know what miles about the staff when he went to LSU?
I can't get anyone around here to acknowledge that the SEC may very well have been vastly overrated this year...their best teams are eaten up with losses (usually to second-tier teams either in-conference or, in Tennessee's case, the PAC-10) and their 2nd-tier teams lose to some weak out-of-conference teams.
Tennessee lost to Alabama, for God's sake...Alabama who lost to Florida State and Lousiana Monroe. Auburn lost to South Florida (who had nothing left after beating VWU) and UT lost to Cal, a team that had nothing left after beating Oregon.
If the Tennessee/LSU winner ends up getting Hawai'i in the Sugar Bowl, it's very likely that they're going to have a loooooooooong night. I'm not even kidding.
Johnny, you live in Atlanta. It's useless. I've tried too. That's why I only talk football with my UM friends
DanK,
I think there might be something to the Arkansas rumor given he's from there. One never knows. His agent, Jimmy Sexton, is always getting his guys on the rumor mill to get some more leverage. Given what's called "Jet Gate" around here, I certainly wouldn't blame him. My guess is he stays.
untill oregon went into the shitter i thought the Pac10 was the better conf. Ore, Cal, USC, ASU, UCLA. but then dixon broke his leg, Cal imploded, Dorell did his best Johnelle impression (in terms of pure F-ing up a football team).
ASU had a weak NC tho, iirc and USC did lose to Stanford.
can't say i wouldn't love to see Hawi'i beat an SEC tema tho.
ATL Blue,
Maybe I need to drive two hours to talk to U of M people.I know one in Birmingham.
bill, did you see my link about a dozen posts up? reports say he already left for Ark.
Dan,
I would have loved to watch a healthy Oregon offense play a healthy LSU defense in a MNC game.
Dan,
What was reported here today is that he is on a hunting trip in Arkansas. Could be true. Could be smoke. I do believe if it were not for one very powerful booster that was widely presumed to be behind the Petrino debacle, he would be very satisfied at Auburn.
Dan,
Thanks for the link. That is more substantive than what I had heard about Tuberville/Arkansas.
Why would you leave Auburn for Ark? Ark's fans are nuts (no pun intended), and my guess is its a lot easy to sell kids on coming to Auburn than to Arkansas.
Personally, I would love to play an overrated SEC team. The world is full of hyperbole and it is about time that we took advantage. What do you think, Alabama or Tennessee?
As far as I know, the SEC has 1 good win, LSU over Va Tech. Feel free to help me out since I might be missing one. However, as far as I know they don't play tough competition out of conference because they think too much of themselves.
Of the top half of the SEC, the bad losses are mounting:
Auburn lost at home to a middle of the pack Big East school.
Alabama lost to Louisiana Monroe and Florida State.
Missisippi State was blown out in its only out of conference game worth of note.
Tennessee was blown out by California, which is a mediocre paz ten team.
These are off the top of my head, so I might be missing something. I feel like I am taking crazy pills.
I think that the financial folly of the Big Ten Network will be in not having aligned with a major network to do shameless promotion (see CBS with the SEC, and ESPN for ACC basketball). Danielson propelled Florida into the MNC last year. Right or wrong, it is a fact of life that you need large corporate backing.
Does anyone realize how much we've missed being able to see charles woodson on tv. He is still a great player, but when he was on oakland...we NEVER saw the games.. I think he's even playing better now...obviously he's out for the night. But it just is so awesome to be able to see that guy cause he's the same player. Brings back memories of that season with Moeller's players. LOL jk
i just think the SEC is crazy...their coaches basically play musical chairs for each HC job down there.
last time the music stopped, saban sat on the bama chair and OBC sat on SC.
this time the music stops and nutt sits on oleMiss, tubbervills sits on ARK, and Saban/OBC sits on LSU.
Dank, I respect your opinion.
Am I missing something or is the SEC actually better than I think.
I honestly feel that it is really good, but I don't have any evidence for it. Where does this come from. Is it the Florida game from last year? It can't be Michigan's 8 and 2 record against them.
Jst realized I contradicted myself in my own post. I mean my brain says the SEC isn't that good, but the heart feels that it is really good. What gives?
JHS,
I agree. There are only two reasons I can think of. One is that the most powerful rich booster at Auburn tried to get rid of you a few years ago. The other is the Tyson Foods and WalMart money that will pay for a very comfortable retirement if you go to Arkansas. I do think Auburn is a much better job.
@Johnny S. and ATL:
Yeah these SEC people will never admit to their conferences being even a tad overrated. Im also in ATL, and on the radio today a couple people called in trying to say how WVU is a legit team--and the hosts were having none of it. They said "I'd like to see them play SEC defenses." Then one caller responded---"the same offense basically (and maybe even a less developed version of it) played Georgia a couple years ago and beat them in the bowl game." The host then reminisced about how great a game it was and then went on to talk about how Georgia dominated the second half of that game--while backhandedly noting that WVU went up 28-0 to start the game.
Also, if this Tuberville stuff is true, wow. It would only be fitting if Spurrier or Saban then took Miles' spot at LSU
Jeff,
I have a theory for what it's worth. First, I agree that the SEC is not the juggernaut the media and everyone around me thinks this year. However, my theory is that it's not the top of the SEC is always better than everyone else. IMO, U of M, tOSU and to a lesser extent Penn State will be competitive year in and year out with the best of the SEC. Just like Texas and Oklahoma will be. Where I do think they usually have an advantage is in the number of quality programs. Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn and LSU are all close to top tier over time. And as I said earlier, their group of head coaches is really strong. I think even Bobby Johnson, the coach at Vandy, is really good.
@Bill
Agreed.
What I thinks makes the Sec the best conference is that it has great depth and great coaches. The coaches in the big ten have a huge drop off after Tressel... The other conferences all lack top tier coaches, but the SEC has 3 or 4 top guys, I don't think that can be said about any other league.
i just think they have alot of good-really good teams and that's it.
you can't argue against UGa, UF, LSU. very good, all.
tenn, Ark, Auburn are solid 8-9 win type teams. good.
SC, bama, UK, Miss, MSu are really inconsistent.....but probably not too much worse than mediocre. except maybe Miss, MSU. they are fairly bad, along w/ vandy. but really, only vandy is at a Minn/IU/NW/stan/duke level of suck. pretty good for a 12 team conf.
too close to call in terms of rankings...but interms of levels:
L1) Pac10/SEC/B12
L2) ACC/B10
L3) Beast
L4) whatever
i still can't rank the Beast as better than any of the others....i don't buy USF, BC, Cinci, RU, Uconn, or UL. not this year. i guess i could move the B12 down to L2.
and re: B10network... i think most non B10 people argue that ABC/espn pimp the B10 as much as CBS does the SEC. and once the cable co's sign on w/ the B10 that will be a huge thing for the conf.
Is it just me or is "Unverified VOracity" a complete misspell. It's VERACITY if you're talking about truth, which I assume you're trying to do. Unverivied "Voracity" makes no sense. C'mon, you didn't go to tOSU.
maizblu, check the mgoblog faq for the explanation of 'voracity'
http://mgoblog.blogspot.com/2007.../02/
mgofaq.html
yea, you're a n00b to the blog here eh, maizblu? no worries...just check out the FAQ on the sidebar.
Dammit Rutgers just Kragthrop'd themselves...
maizblu,
if you want a really good laugh and are into recruiting (even a little) check out this post, my all time favorite:
http://mgoblog.blogspot.com/
2005...philosophy.html
Sorry...perhaps I was the one who had a tOSU moment.
You guys do know over on tigerdroppings.com brds they are stating Miles told players today he is gone
Saw that, aged_wolverine. That site has become my (second) favorite place for breaking college football news.
Their "coaching changes" board is great.
It's funny that we seem to have a lot of Southern transplants talking U of M football here. I too live in Bham and listen to Jox. You know, Tony Curry is an Ohio native. He knows a good deal about Big 10 football, and at times he seems to get a bit tired of hearing all the nonsense about how superior the SEC is. Still, they obviously make all their money by rehashing ad infinitum every tiny little thing that happens with either Auburn or Alabama. You almost never hear anyone call the show about topics other than Auburn or Bama.
Wonder why he would tell them before the game. Anyway, link:
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/ra...c.asp?
p=6245874
I saw that as well and figured if that did happen, that he told the players, it would hit all the message boards in a hurry yet I saw it no where else. 100 players arent going to keep that a secret. I saw it no where else, its bogus.
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...1054&
theme=CARR
More of Miles' buddy Wangler speaking for him...anyone think Wangler will get some sort of job on the staff?
I noticed he did color commentary for the FSD broadcast of the Michigan High School Football playoffs---recruiting specialist anyone?
Miles was recently asked about the Michigan job by Ouachita senior tight end Tyler Edwards, whom Miles is recruiting.
“I brought it up and asked him if he was really going to Michigan,” Edwards told the Monroe News Star. “He said, ’Tyler, to tell you the truth, I plan to stay here for many years. I love it here. I love the town. I love the coaches. If you came here, I’d be your only coach.’”
Um...that sucks!
EDSBS is reporting Tuberville to Ark.
Anonymous:
One key word there..."Plan", as in he PLANS to stay there, not he IS staying there.
This is most likely still going down pretty soon.
GO BLUE!
I'm not sure Miles is the man. Martin should see if Tedford has any interest.
From tigerdroppings: "I was about to ask on the other thread why you hadn't posted this as a topic of its own. I don't have any reason to doubt you, except Michigan isn't even supposed to talk to Miles until after the SECCG. They're f'n scumbags if they already did."
Hahahaha. Idiots. OF COURSE Miles went through channels and told his agent among others he wants to be a Mich. Martin then talks to the agent and basically settles the whole thing. We didn't even need to formally talk to Miles I guess. I don't know if I believe the entire post, but who cares. I still think Kelly should be interviewed, just to see what else is out there. But to have a Michigan bred guy who will live and die with wins and losses (like me, I don't talk to anyone for a couple hours after a Mich loss), is just gravy. Let 'er RIP!
I agree with Brian, If U of M went public asking permission the embaressment of being turned down by a "Michigan Man" would hurt the perception of the program in a unmeasurable way. Can you imagine Tressel recruiting with that, "heck they are so so down even Miles would not go back there when they wanted him to come, why should you?"
I actually listened to that Wangler interview, streaming Detroit sportstalk radio here in Chicago while at work. That was AWESOME! I just discovered it today. Hope I didn't kill anybody.
That LSU recruiting article can't be right! How can Michigan have that much talent and play like we do? How come I see LSU defenders flying around like cheetahs and we look like we are standing still? Jeebus. I can only think of what might have been.
@Anon
Our S&C program sucks hence our players look and are often slow.
Side note - I love how OSU fans think Tressel is going to own Miles should he come to UM. Tressel lost to the Zooker this year, if Zook can beat him anyone with good players and a good game plan has a shot at the Vest.
Dank/ Bill in Birmingham, good discussion.
I guess you are right. It is jealousy that won't let me beleive that the SEC is actually the best conference in football. I still beleive that the ACC/ Big Ten challenge is skewed because of matchups and not superiority. I tried to explain this the other night and hearing the words made me laugh. I grew up with a superior Big Ten and still want it to be that way.
In truth, I think that sustained superiority in anything is very difficult and most things are cyclical. This is why our (U of M football's)consistency is amazing, despite the ledge jumpers trying to convince us otherwise. The Big Ten will be back, hopefully with Les Miles leading the way (or better yet Bob Stoops, which won't happen).
Does Brian read these threads? If so, this is for you...
That description of what went down with KF, Carr and the rest might have some facts in in but it's dead wrong on several others, like some very critical ones. Do with it what you will because I'm not breaking confidences to set it right here. There is a huge clue though to the credibility that is a matter of record and logic...the defense gave up 28 points in the first half of last year's OSU game...Debord wasn't the guy whose immediate future started going down the drain.
As for Miles and the rift...that goes back to Bo and all the money isn't on the other side.
it appears he reads parts and pieces, but skips over most really long threads. this is probably the first thread in 2 months i havent read from top to bottom. stupid 6 hour drive from illi-noise to ann arbor.
Blue, I understand what you're saying but I think the overall point about that OSU game is true: Basically, that was the beginning of the end of the chance that someone from on the staff would be the next head coach.
That loss, followed by the USC debacle, the Horror and the Oregon obliteration, completely changed the public perception of the coaching staff, regardless of who you want to blame those losses on. After that four-game stretch of embarassing defeats, it was clear that a change was needed and that Carr's preference to promote DeBord would be irrelevant.
There were a couple of other minor points in the article that I thought were debatable, as well, but it was interesting to read and, all in all, probably contains a lot of truth.
Blue,
So what you're trying to say is that I should invite Ron English over for brunch on Sunday? I know a little food always makes me feel better when I feel blue. Eighty-two pounds of bacon and ten trays of cinnamon buns always cheers a guy up--especially when you wash it down with a couple pitchers of butter.
Don't eat Ron English.
Don't know if anyone pointed this out I didn't read through the posts but MDan's blog about Les made it on the TigerForums.com blog.
http://www.tigerforums.com/
tiger...evaluation.html
It's amazing to me the difference between the two forums. People on TigerForums are for the most part supportive of Les Miles and any decision he makes while on the other hand everyone at Tigerdroppings pretty much hates him.
Anyway!
Sounds like this is a done deal...
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/ra...c.asp?
p=6245874
I can't get that pumped about getting a coach who is viewed as an albatross by his current team's fans.
Not sure if this was posted (412 comments are a lot to ferret through), but the rumor coming out of Baton Rouge is that Miles' agent has negotiated the deal (not signed til next week). Apparently, Les told his team after practice Thursday. He didn't want to string them along or have his status be a distraction during the SECCG.
But. . . as we know with rumors. . . could be just that.
I find it hard to believe.....If Les Miles told his team that it would be on the front page of ESPN already. You think 100 18-22 year olds would all just keep that a secret?
Also- current perception of a head coach that is presumably leaving is obviously skewed. To say "I can't get that pumped about getting a coach who is viewed as an albatross by his current team's fans." doesn't do justice.
How bout this: Are you pumped to get a coach that would cut off his own d!ck to beat Ohio State? cause i'm pretty sure that's what Les Miles will bring to the table. That and good coordinators hopefully :-)
who votes brian update at least one of his avenues, mgoblog, mgolicious or AOL?
please
what is mgolicious?
Any flightaware leads for a flight from Willow Run to Atlanta tomorrow? It seems like we've got enough of a constituency down here to organize a welcome party for BM and MSC at Peachtree-Dekalb airport.
Blp
brians version of del.icio.us
just posting links that he deems interesting on the right hand side below AOL posts.
Meeeechigan - I really don't care if "he'd cut off his own dick to beat Ohio St." - I just care that he beats them. I don't think motivation was ever Lloyd's problem - it was execution. And reading Tigerdroppings (even before the announcement that he was leaving) make it sound like they think he's an idiot.
the links on the right hand side that are any michigan related links he finds relevant, or sometimes just amusing that generally related to michigan sports.
JH Scramble: you are 100% correct about our S & C program.
Chitown Blue: you have to remember that you are reading the opinions of SEC fans. If their team is not blowing out opponents by 50 or more points, they are not satisfied and blame the coach.
Here's an example: Last May i had the unfortunate circumstance in where I had to ride in a car for 2 hours with 2 Alabama fans. they were absolutely convinced that winning the SEC was a lay-up, a given; and that they would almost certainly win the NC because Saban was know their coach. Point being--SEC fans have way too unrealistic expectations.
i hope this makes sense.
A VERY reputable source on a Georgia Tech board said that Les Miles has already told his team that he's taken the Michigan job and that Michigan will announce tomorrow. Take it for what it's worth, but he's been correct about a number of rumors on Georgia Tech.
You absolutely CANNOT listen to most LSU fans regarding Miles. They have had the ENTIRE YEAR to rationalize his leaving. They saw the writing on the wall after The Horror. They're making themselves feel better about it. Trust me, we'd do the EXACT same thing. I wouldn't worry about it. This guy would cut off his huge balls and chuck 'em at Tressel if he thought it'd help our team win. Although him even thinking that kinda says somethin' huh?
i think message boards should be left aside. last time people started taking too much into message boards ann arbor torch and pitchfork had to close their doors from fire code violations from being over capacity.
In this case however it might be trader joes as we all sprint for champagne.
well, any who aren't hoping we keep the options open for BK at least.
Matt - link?
DanK - Sorry to leave you hanging...
"even if BK were hired, he'd get a 5-6 year deal minimum, yea? so sure, if he goes 2-4/1-5 vs OSU, only 1 B10 title and is generally 9-4 every year...i could see his contract not getting renewed (like the Amaker situation). but fired? no way.....especially w/ BM as AD."
I agree. However, if the first three years we are losing 3-4 each season, and 0-3 against OSU... I don't know man, I think the pressure to break precedent and make an early change would be pretty high... Depending on who might be available of course...
Of course with the new miles info, this is probably all moot.
97....maybe. but w/ BM at AD, and based on the precident M has set in the past....i'd still bet against it.
Of course the real loser in the "rinky-dink" bowl sweepstakes is Michigan. There are maybe a few hundred mildly amused locals and fans in town for the Cap One in the stands for the "Champs Sports Bowl". And we all saw the attendance the last time Michigan went to the catastrophe in San Antonio.
I hear what you are saying. I am sure other things would be in consideration, like were the OSU games blowouts, how recruiting was fairing, if momentum (in terms of record) was moving in the right or wrong direction, etc.
If something was undoubtedly wrong (ie OSU blowouts, recruiting droppping severly, no sign of positive momentum of the program etc) I don't know that I would believe they could let go 5-6 years befor ethey did something about it.
Either way, it woudl be ugly on mesage boards, in the stands, etc...
MAngino is so fat I told him it was chilly outside and he took a spoon
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