First?
Szabo is leaving of his own accord, much like a peasant fleeing Mother Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution.
rather be dead than red.
really? fred jackson? i know we've been productive at rb, but he's never struck me as...forward thinking.
Any room in the budget for an Image Consultant for the Mrs.?
You'll all regret this.
I can't decide whether I want English to stay or not.
Special teams coordinator?! Oh hell yes.
Sort of sad to see English go. Remember, Rodriguez has to not break what isn't broken.
I hope we don't lose English. I would love to see what he can do under RR. Will be sad if he is let go.
I'm surprised Scot is staying. This seems like a logical time for him to finally listen to NFL offers. It will be interesting to see how he does in a spread option system. Some things are sure to be universal regarding quarterback skills, but I would think he is much better suited to a pro-style offense, or a pro offense. But maybe he's a 'Michigan Man' through and through regardless of system in place.
Fred Jackson brings with him comrade McGuffie, a valuable weapon for our new General Secretary.
I'd like English to stay, unless Rodriguez can get an absolutely top-flight DC like Tenuta. English was aggressive and smart, and his defenses usually seemed to play better as the game and season went along.
And it's not like WVU had a killer D year in and year out.
I don't want English to go either. He was always cool to me when I asked him for spare change.
Jackson staying means McDuffie will still come. (hopefully)
I am hungry.
@AAB
I don't necessarily want English to leave, but I have to quibble with your statement that he usually got better as the year went on.
Last year was marked by the epic collapse of th defense against Ball State, OSU, and USC. This year we gave up 30+ to Wisconsin, and had a decent outing against OSU, and still have to figure out a way to stop the Tebow. So, I'm not sure I agree he "always" improves as the year goes on.
I agree about English; he's a big recruiting draw, and an enthusiastic coach. And I think Rodriguez would do well to retain at least a couple of assistants, to help him understand the current players as well as the intricacies of Michigan football traditions.
By the way, I hope this dispels the myth that Bill Martin was "forcing" coaching prospects (i.e. Miles) to retain assistants like [NAME REDACTED]. The two-year contracts for the assistants that Lloyd negotiated last year were merely to ensure that they'd all be taken care of while they spent time looking for new jobs.
We need Barwis.
English and Campbell were the two guys I most wanted to keep. 1/2 ain't bad.
not sold on RE as DC...but he's a known commodity wrt recruiting (especially Cali). so he's as good as any other non-tenuta guy, yea? i guess i'd rather keep him than lose him.
I thought the new head coach had to keep all the previous assistants, which was the "deal breaker" and why we going to be stuck with a second rate hire.
That would mean some of the information on the internet wasn't 100% accurate. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.
If you guys don't want Loeffler, we'll take him!
Wait, so are you saying that BILG was lied to by his source about having to keep assistants around?
One thing is certain. We d/n need WV's athletic director. That guy should get his resume out there asap.
Will the domination of PSU continue under the tutelage of RR?
Please keep English, Jackson, Campbell, Bedford. Do we know for sure Szabo is leaving????
I was hoping for English, Soup, and Jackson to be retained. I really think English has room to grow, and "Ron English, Defensive Coord" sounds a lot better than "Ron English, Head Coach" at least in 2007. Hope something changes.
Will the domination of PSU continue under the tutelage of RR?
Williams
Yes, provided JoPa remains.
Obviously the AD didn't read these boards too well when we insisted they get rid of Debord but not English as DC :) kidding of course.
But I sort of think it would be a mistake to let him go. Our D has the potential to be really aggressive. 2006 season they were amazing and I think English can get them to that again. They are well on their way.
When is the cutoff date for Juniors to declare themselves eligible for the draft? I would like to start making predictions for next season.
I hope Ronny E lands on his feet. I read he was in the mix for the HC at NIU.
I wonder to what degree this past season's defensive sleepwalks were attributable to Coach English versus our conditioning program.
You guys - I'm still going to be the HC of Michigan....You will see...
The conditioning program didn't line up Chris Graham against slot receivers in the App. State game.
English was average, in my opinion. I'd like to know how much he was handcuffed by Lloyd, though.
Question: Will U of M employ WVU's 3-3-5 defense? It seems unlikely to me. I always thought they used that as a way of somehow masking their lack of talent on D, but I am no expert.
@Les
Maybe later...like 5-10 years later. Sorry bud!
So wait, when is the Steve Sarkisian presser again? People keep saying we hired some Rodriguez guy, but I was under the impression we were hiring SS. Damn the googlenet.
1) Ron English will be fine. There was a lot of talk about him as a potential HC and he will be very soon. I expect him to have a very nice career and be one of the shining lights of LLoyd coaching tree. Do not cry for him.
2) RR said in his press conference that he would likely hire some from the outside and will interview interested current coaches to "rehire" them. I expect that Jackson and Campell will stay. They have done pretty well and are great recruiters, and have long history with UM. Loefler probably does not fit into what RR is trying to do and is a Lloyd/Jason Carr crony. That does not mean he was not a good coach. He was and a very good recruiter as was most of the staff, but I think that he will need to clear out the position for someone more familiar with the spread offense than Loeffler.
@ Les -
Have a GREAT day!
Anthony:
CGraham was getting left on an island against WRs all year. Go watch the Wisky game and see how many times he was hung out to dry against Beckum. Would love to know who kept calling that coverage.
Loeffler should come home to Ohio. Joe Daniels has had health problems. We may need a QB coach if Daniels decides to retire.
I'm not sure I buy the Pryor to UM sentiment just yet. The last I checked, Pryor wanted to play both football and basketball at good programs, and the last I checked, UM doesn't qualify on the basketball front.
EudaemonicPie:
I too am hoping and praying that RR manages to bring Barwis with him and they manage to get some $$$ together to revamp the strength facilities.
I also love the fact that Barwis seems to get proper nutrition. That is as huge as understanding proper strength and conditioning. Diet is just a huge aspect of any training program.
I hope he starts installing the mentality that guys need to eat quality to give quality performance and that guys who don't eat clean aren't just hurting their performance, but the performance of the team, the Team, the TEAM!!!
GET PUMPED!!!
bluewolverine (EECS '01):
Forgot about that...How are you NOT going to pay better attention to Wisconsin's best offensive player? Thats another good example of why I am lukewarm on English.
The Linebackers' general suck and safeties inability to take good angles are other reasons.
English wasn't that good. OSU game last year? That was horrendous coaching. Appy State? The stunting. Oh god, the stunting!
Do you read bodybuilding forums as well, bluewolverine? I'm not used to seeing the phrase "eating clean" pop up here.
If anyone saw the Gameday profile of Owen Schmitt, you saw some real S&C.
Power cleans for the win!
I think the only problem English has is getting players to do want he tells him to do. His half time adjustments are amazing and I think some of the 'adjusting' involves getting players to buy into his game plan. This is both good (good game plan) and bad (obvious reasons. I really hope he stays and becomes a polished HC.
I want to see a picture of this hoochee mamma wife of RR's.
Dex, how dare you impugn the integrity of BILG's sources.
While we're talking about bullet-proof internet message board insiders ,I want to know what EERhole has to say about what assistants are leaving.
The bossman needs to work w/ subordinates that he feels most comfortable w/, period. All of us hate or don't get along w/ some co-workers. If RR feels comfortable w/ certain people, we shouldn't pressure him otherwise. I don't think we should take a stance (as to good job/bad job) on this. He needs people who do what he wants them to do, in exactly the way he wants them to do it.
Anthony:
I agree, it was truly foolish to treat Beckum that lightly after his performance all season. Shut him down and make Wisky beat us with their 3rd WR.
dex:
I dabble in a little strength training, but I don't consider myself a bodybuilder. These days I lift to be a better, more explosive skier, flag football player, and stay in shape. OTOH, I've added a little too much mass to be a great rock climber, and the arms get a little heavy when out sea kayaking.
a2 - I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you replaced "RR" with Lloyd Carr, 75% of the people here would scream "CRONYISM!!!!"
I think the only problem English has is getting players to do want he tells him to do.
Yet another reason why I am so ecstatic about RR. He's not afraid to be a prick. His subordinate coaches can follow his example. RR will ensure the players on either side of the ball will do what he tells them to do else sit on the bench. No more BFF as with Carr and his philosophy.
http://
sportsillustrated.cnn.com...content.10.html
English wasn't that good. OSU game last year? That was horrendous coaching. Appy State? The stunting. Oh god, the stunting!
CAUP '91 | 12.17.07 - 2:25 pm | #
I'd argue that shoddy footing and one poor-decision/late-hit turned a potential victory into defeat... neither of which were related to Coach English's scheming/adjustments...
now, the 42 points in general are a bad omen for a DC, but i would hazard a guess that if we'd won, we might consider that game differently.
Anonymous
you suck
@bluewolverine
Ah yes. Strength training is where it is at- muscles are lame if you can't lift the heavy weights.
Chitownblue 00:
RR isn't re-hiring proven failures or pushing for said failures to be a part of something they are not qualified for. That is a big difference.
aims,
I believe this is a picture of Mrs. Rita Rodriguez from Google images. GO BLUE!
http://i56.photobucket.com/album...in/
RodsWife.jpg
OT: Go vote for MGoBlog!
http://www.bustedcoverage.com/?p...m/?
page_id=1122
@RHammer -
Maybe, but then again I didn't lose to App St.
Anthony: just to be a Devil's advocate, your comment is only applicable to one assistant - DeBord, who was a good enough OC to win a National Champion.
-ship
I'm very 'meh' on the presumed departure of English. He is an unknown quantity, but he has shown hints of promise. He fixed the D's early problems from this year, but the early problems were of his own doing.
Meh, I say. I'm neither happy nor sad to see Ron English go.
the new sheriff names his own deputies - comes with the change. every single guy on Carr's staff has the Appy State horror on their resume, so each should have an X painted on their backs.
they are all getting one year's pay as severance. that's damn generous.
From the previous thread:
Chillmodious
Instead of "Maize-Outs," can we start having "Rod-Outs?" I bet a lot more women would start watching football...
I was able to picture 75K+ guys with their wangs hanging out of their pants at a Michigan game, and 35K+ women feeling awkward and creeped out at the same Michigan game...and it just left me laughing uncontrollably.
So, question for the crowd: would a "Rod-Out" be a louder or quieter game? The women would be quiet (because of the icky, creepy thing), but the guys might feel "liberated" enough to yell their f--king heads off to compensate. Thoughts?
I'm not at all saying that RR shouldn't take who he wants - he 100%, absolutely, should.
cfaller96 -
Why choose? Maize-outta-the_Rod_outs. Ewww . . . c/n believe I posted that.
Wonder how many peoples will show up for the spring game this year?
Will we pack the Big House?
Kinda doubt it.
So does anyone know if (not counting this season) WFV's prior defensive struggles were due to lack of talent, bad coaching/scheming, or a little of both, none of the above, or what?
English has a chance to go to Cal, his alma mater. He doesn't know the 3-3-5 and would not be a good fit coordinating that D. Rich Rod would have to make an incredible offer for him to stay.
It seems as if they undoubtedly had poor talent. That doesn't mean it's the entire story, but...
Homer, RR and his staff and recruits will revitalize fan participation. So put away your keys folks and get ready to pay to watch our boys in blue play.
NO MORE KEY PLAYS!
Concur, security should confiscate all keys.
RHammer,
Now that we've all heard your excuses for UM losing in '06, I'd like to hear your excuses for UM losing this year. On second thought, save it. OSU has had UM's number the last four years, so just admit it --your whining gives UM fans a bad name.
'Nam man, fuckin 'Nam.
Some quick observations:
-I hope we now don't degenerate this happy, happy moment into squabbling about assistants. Isn't everyone a little worn out from the last few weeks? Relax. Enjoy. Enjoy.
-Re Szabo's retreat: I think it's actually "better dead than spread."
-It's only "cronyism" if you hang on to neezbobs and pindicks who would not have a job were it not for the strength of their cronyhood.
-Will the Mileses be able to sell the house the Missus bought in A2?
-Didn't hear or see the RR presser, but I assume he didn't say anything about "getting rid of those silly helmets."
Ain't life grand?
RHammer,
Now that we've all heard your excuses for UM losing in '06, I'd like to hear your excuses for UM losing this year. On second thought, save it. OSU has had UM's number the last four years, so just admit it --your whining gives UM fans a bad name.
The Voice of Reason | 12.17.07 - 2:51 pm | #
I think he was merely making a case for Ron English as a good DC.
Maybe English isn't being retained because he's got his eye on a HC gig somewhere else?
Just a thought.
"But, Rita is not White Trash, she may dress a little tacky (but a lot of classy rich women do), she will fit in nicely with all of the snobbies in Oakland County...I would know, I live amongst them and can be one at times :)
00goblue00 | 12.17.07 - 2:52 pm | # "
^^@00goblue00, from last thread:
Yeah, you're probably right. Like I said, it was just how she struck me. That said, I dated plenty of those Oakland-county-snob types while living in Michigan, so I totally hear where you're coming from.
sorry if someone already posted this, but it's pretty funny to read the wall posts. decent amount of bitterness down there: http://www.myspace.com/coachrodwvu
Mike Gittleson -
Sorry 'bout your experiences at Hue.
Now, drive to the Ypsi WhiteCastle for a burger run and never, ever return to A^2 please.
\ http://www.myspace.com/coachrodwvu
//
Lovely. Of course, the wallpaper's got to go.
Chitownblue,
Fair enough. I was (and still am) stick and tired of OSU fans crying about how the Shawn Springs slip in the late 90s that let Tai Streets take it to the house is the only reason that UM won that game, and I am simply pointing out that I think it's equally pathetic when UM fans lower themselves to doing the same thing.
Maybe we can get Muschamp from Auburn to be DC? And have him start before the bowl game? Please?
Gittleson: "My buddies didn't die face down in the muck..."
Yeah they're REALLY pissed off down there. That's good. Makes me think we got a good coach
I just watched a couple minutes of a Terrelle Pryor highlight video complete with an incredibly lame/dumb/obnoxious Ohio State-centric soundtrack, sort of in the vein of "book it, he's a Buckeye." That alone would make a Pryor commitment to UM rather enjoyable.
Just to point this out-
Morgantown, WV is about 29,000 people, and the metro area is 113,500.
Ann Atbor is about 114,000 with 342,000 people in the metro area. It also does not have a deep legacy of mining and what that does the land. Yes, the local topography is probably flatter.
Depending on what RR, his wife, the assistants, and their families are looking for this could be a HUGE quality of life upgrade for them.
We need Jackson and Loeffler, but our D coordinators are for good for the most part. RR should definitely keep English and Bedford, who really improved the secondary this year.
Except Morgantown has a light rail system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Mor...l_Rapid_Transit
Ann Arbor has the Bursley busses.
There aren't many schools who boast good football AND basketball teams. I don't think Michigan's basketball team would be a backbreaker.
Somebody's going to point out the story of Ronald Curry to him. All-world Everything to Is He Still Playing for the Raiders?
Better schools and learning environment for RR's kiddo too.
Oh, and Zingermann's!
Serious quality of life upgrade.
Where the fuck does Morgantown get off with that?
00goblue00 is a snobbish girl. I love that. All power to you, my goddess.
Aaron G.:
Touche on the light rail.
AA is a hugely bike friendly town though, but I know that's not for everyone.
I now present you the last comment from the last thread. Have at it:
OK, I like your blog. I read it before this shit with Rod and after. I like Michigan. But your post is very inaccurate in pissing on WVU and praising Rod. The Big East is a VASTLY superior conference to the Big Ten and no one with any brains denies that. Michigan has the history, the tradition. Michigan is great. Ohio State is a great program. The Big East doesn't have that. But the Big East is a better conference. Hands down.
sam | 12.17.07 - 3:08 pm | #
Is this guy for serious?
I wish Herbstreit never would have uttered the word "Tenuta." Can't get that idea out of my head.
sam is Randy Edsall in disguise.
Magnus,
I hate to say it, but OSU has won three straight Big Ten titles in football and two straight in basketball. They seem to qualify as a school that has good programs in both sports. Same goes for Florida and Texas, off the top of my head, although Pryor has already eliminated Texas.
sorry if someone already posted this, but it's pretty funny to read the wall posts. decent amount of bitterness down there: http://www.myspace.com/coachrodwvu
Beltway Blue | 12.17.07 - 2:57 pm | #
I can understand the anger, and even some of the terminology like "traitor." But wishing death on him is psychotic.
On a lighter note, here's my personal favorite:
"GO BUCKEYES YOU JUDIST PRICK......."
Just say no to "Judism," I guess. Yeah, I know the commenter meant "Judas," but that sure isn't going to help with the WV jokes.
ATL Blue -
I wasted much time this a.m. reviewing the WVa newspapers. Many published RR detractors expressed the view that RR will not succeed in A^2 b/c, in part, the Big Ten Conference is considerably stronger than the Big East. Then again, what do they really know about football.
"Except Morgantown has a light rail system."
Thats just the new name they use for the little train that takes the coal out of the mines.
Wow! Things are changing in Schembechler Hall. I am amazed that this happened. Stunned.
I am a newcomer to this blog in the past few weeks, is there any backstory to the dancing banana and pb and j videos?
Does anyone think he'll keep DeBord on as OC? Snicker.
I am a newcomer to this blog in the past few weeks, is there any backstory to the dancing banana and pb and j videos?
BOYBlue
This is left for you to discover, Grasshopper. Your journey to enlightenment must begin with throwing rock.
"The Big East is a VASTLY superior conference to the Big Ten and no one with any brains denies that."
Superior it what way? Because its closer to New York?
Oh, and another good one--one of the WV faithful refers to them as the "Mountianeers."
Twice.
It's probably safe to say he hates the Wolveriens now.
Big East superior to the Big Ten? Is that why Miami, Tech, and BC left the Big East. Like rats off a sinking ship.
2 things:
1. stop hating on the Mrs.
2. anon - lose to appy st. or lose 3 national championships in one year? ummm, i take the appy st. loss any day.
Debord had a chance to get the Michigan job. He went to CMU to get that head coaching experience so when Lloyd retired Debord would be well rounded enough. Debord failed at a MAC school, and was followed by an ex-Rodriguez assistant who has turned the program around. Debord had his chance and has no one to blame but himself. I'm sorry, he may be a good guy and everything, but he failed where he needed to succeed.
Fantasy Outplacement Thread -
Mike DeBord and his future. Discuss amongst yourselves. Elliot Uzelac retired to my high school, where he took us to quarterfinals this year against EGr. DeBord could manage that.
Throwing rock?
Rock? Bananas?
What the hell is going on here?
Throwing rock?
BOYBlue
The journey will be arduous, GrassHopper. But you have taken the first step.
Michigan fans should all party tonight.
How about this: you may not understand every allusion that everyone makes in the message threads. Let it go.
Explanation of the peanut butter jelly thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan.../
Dancing_Banana
I'm going to make myself a PB&J.
I'd rather ride in a big blue bus than this:
http://www.nis.wvu.edu/
Releases_...ats_disney.html
It kinda looks like the short bus on rails...
I'd take the Dancing Banana this way:
We are as excited about RR as that banana is about PB&J. And baseball bats. And that's pretty fucking excited.
I think this year, for the first time in the history of the Big East, it is/was close.
I think their top 4 (WVU/UConn/S. Fl/Cincy) are comparable to our top 4 (OSU/Illinois/UM/Wisconsin) and have (ever so slightly) more confidence in Rutgers/Louisville than Penn St./Iowa.
My quick and dirty review of non-conference wins over ranked opponents only revealed S. Florida over #24 Auburn. I think I remember MSU pummeling Pitt, however, which doesn't bode well for WV.
Sorry for wasting your precious time ChitownBlue. Anybody else not psyched about the strange 3-3-5 stack defense?
"Throwing rock" - A rock, paper, scissors reference that's an analogy to the Michigan predictability. i.e., like playing rock, paper, scissors and always throwing rock.
Hell, if someone told me all you had to do to keep DeBord from getting the job was to dress up like a banana, jump around, sing, and make an ass out of yourself, I'd have done in months ago on the corner of State and South U.
Thank God someone got it right.
PS. Keep your damn pebble.
I forgive you, BOYBlue.
I can see it now in our first game. Mallett starts out in the shotgun with C. Brown to his right. Three receivers left. One right. This is the first time Michigan fans can see this innovative coach bring some life into the football program. Everybody in the Big House (except the bluehairs) are just waiting in anticipation and the first play is...
Zone Read left.
I'd rather ride in a big blue bus than this:
http://www.nis.wvu.edu/ Releases_...ats_disney.html
It kinda looks like the short bus on rails...
DC Joe
Hmmm. Remember that scene in Risky Business? Love on a real train. Replicating that would have been my paramount goal had I been a Mountaineer.
Do you think maybe they will start selling Duff Beer at the Big House now?
Man, that would be so cool.
I had the "honor" of seeing UCONN play 3 or 4 times. They're awful. We'd run them off the field. USF games always turned into a slopfest. They had a good D, but that offense was like having 11 Rex Grossman's on the field.
Mallet will transfer if Rich Rod brings in Pryor.
Do you think maybe they will start selling Duff Beer at the Big House now?
Man, that would be so cool.
Homer Simpson
Alcohol sales, especially to minors, certainly would boost revenues.
Suggest you email Bill Martin with your insight.
Aaron G.
That'd be a funny joke, eh?
CAn't wait for the spring game. Gonna be a freakin blast this year? Gonn see all kinda clazy junk.
Many a Michigan player can kiss the carbo slurping off season good bye. You don't want to show up fat and out of shape for spring practice. Life as they know it just ended.
Anon,
I agree. If UM gets Pryor, Mallet will realize that he's got a one-way ticket for the next three years.
@ Chitown
What do you think would happen if the situation were reversed? If a UConn fan saw us play this year? I think it's a difficult argument to make that we were CERTAINLY superior to UConn THIS YEAR when looking at a couple of our games.
I wish it were true, but seems pretty hard to argue with certainty.
Mallet will transfer if Rich Rod brings in Pryor.
Anonymous
Possibly but not necessarily. Would you rather play two more years and then head to the pros or sit out the next year and hope that your new situation doesn't crumble at School X?
RR can manage this one, presupposing Mallett intends to go NFL w/in two years.
magnus-
ronald curry not only is still playing for the raiders, but gave me a much needed TD in my fantasy league yesterday...
If Rod doesn't retain Ron English, WVU should give him a very hard look. I hope we keep him. Same with Bedford, to a lesser extent.
No word on Loeffler?
@Snobby Girls
"00goblue00 is a snobbish girl. I love that. All power to you, my goddess."
Wow, just wow. Again love it when people talk about me when I am not even participating in the thread lol.
4-wide shotgun, willingness to build double didget leads before sitting on the football, 3-3-5 defense with unaccounted for rover on every play of the game to disrupt coverage reads and blocking assignments. I work at tOSU medical center and last night you would have thought Tressel had died with the look on the faces of my coworkers when I was informing them that the godfather of the spread option was coming to Ann Arbor for sure and that Pryor was now considering Michigan again.... FEAR FACTOR IS HIGH AND THE NATIVES ARE RESTLESS IN COLUMBUS.
Aaron L,
Fair point. I guess I feel that if you took our best team - with a healthy Henne and Hart - and put them up against UCONN, we win. Again, it's speculation. But it's my opinion.
Does anybody know if they are going to start publishing construction/progress photos of the stadium renovation?
Spring training in AA. Time for Barwis to get these fatties in shape.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=h...feature=related
If you haven't had your daily dose of EDSBS yet, Run, don't walk.
I DEMAND YOU DROP IT LIKE IT'S HOT!
EDSBS was spot on there. Hilarious.
I hope this is a joke about Saban contacting WVU: http://wbgv.wordpress.com/2007/1...t-contacts-wvu/
@ Chitown
I tend to agree, it's our defense that worries me. I just don't think a definitive case can be made as to which conference is superior or why. Total lack of common opponents or impressive wins this year. I mean, nobody in our league beat anybody in the top 25 outside the conference (which says little for the rankings system in place, of course). I know as a Michigan fan, I would not feel better than 50/50 against WVU, S. Fl or even Cincy this year.
Does anybody know if they are going to start publishing construction/progress photos of the stadium renovation?
mg
A savvy move would be to install webcams so we could monitor construction progress online.
OTOH recruits might get an honest look at A^2 weather.
Ixnayonthat . . .
Effing tags
RHammer,
Now that we've all heard your excuses for UM losing in '06, I'd like to hear your excuses for UM losing this year. On second thought, save it. OSU has had UM's number the last four years, so just admit it --your whining gives UM fans a bad name.
The Voice of Reason | 12.17.07 - 2:51 pm | #
My previous post (sorry for the delay, damn work) was not meant to serve as a whining excuse for last years loss... I was merely making the point that it was a close game, and that RE was not necessarily the be-all-end-all reason for UM's defeat.
There were HUGE problems/issues this year (the horror, wisky, oregon) where the defense seemed both underprepared, poorly matched-up, and generally unable to stop much of anything, especially when it counted.
I was not over-generalizing as to last year. My preference is for an agressive defense, and I thought this year's D played pretty well in the OSU game, but clearly not well enough (esp. on that damn run after the half). Bottom line is that the comment was neither whiny nor did it attempt to explain away four years of losses (gulp... i hated typing that) to OSU...
I would have thought that anyone named "THE VOICE OF REASON" could figure that out though... perhaps reading comprehension wasn't taught in your philosphy classes there at whatever the hell school you went to.
Rich Rod may hire John Tenuta as DC.
I think he was merely making a case for Ron English as a good DC.
Chitownblue 00 | 12.17.07 - 2:56 pm | #
and thanks there, Chitownblue 00
for being a voice of reason for me when work interrupted my blog-reading
Tenuta? Do you have a cite for that? Or are you blowing smoke?
Ron English is headed for the left coast.
Nick Saban wants to coach in every state by the time he dies. Only explaination.
If Saban left for West Virginia, people here would be PISSED. They called this year Two-thousand Saban for crying out loud. You think the WVU fans were angry after RRod left? Multiply that by 1000 and you'd get close to what the Bama fans would be like if Nick Saban cut and run. I would be surprised if it happened, though...$4 million/year is probably hard to walk away from, and despite the anger after the LA-Monroe loss, he's still widely revered by the locals. Then again, you can never tell what Saban might do...
Tenuta has his bags packed.
"Rich Rod may hire John Tenuta as DC."
Rich Rod may blast off to the moon too. I'll believe it when I see it.
This is probably already posted, but I haven't been here since this morning. Of course, no harm in reading this passage again:
"Two big additions (and potential subtractions for WVU) the Wolverines also may get are Rodriguez's OC Calvin Magee, a terrific playcaller and a stellar recruiter in Florida, and strength coach Mike Barwis, one of the most respected guys in his field. A former MMA fighter, Barwis would instantly make a dramatic difference in a part of the program at Michigan that has been criticized a lot over the past few years. Talking to Noel Devine a few weeks back, he said Barwis was one of the bigger reasons why he came to WVU."
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/
...e=feldman_bruce
"Tenuta has his bags packed."
Okay, so you're just making shit up. Thanks for the clarification.
Anybody know which night BW3s has 20-centers? Got to fatten up the boys one last time.
whooo... sorry, got a bit overly-defensive there...
read on to see the post re: tai streets and shawn springs, which is a good point. I hate whining too. Again, just basically saying last year's loss wasn't totally on RE...
however, if there was a source for this tenuta business... I'd be cracking open more than one bells after work tonight because this new staff would really appear promising...
now, for the delivery
copied from the last blog...
jamie mac,
sorry so late in getting back to you...
we shut donw mt tabor's offense... (they went on to play in the 4-a state cahmpionship) becasue i had an easier time playing the spread-zone read option run stuff....
i could we were a great technique football team, and we had a good idea of team football. I could put my corners on islands, and sell out.
we shut out ragsdale, but they had droped balls all over the field. It is much more difficult to play zone pass, than zone run... RR will pass the ball if he has recievers that can make big plays, i bleieve becasue it is much harder to prepare for... you still have the same play action read zone with the tailback, the only difference is the run threat of the qb. im excited about what michigan will do next year... even if it is mallett... it will be hard to stop that zone read playaction pass...
gsimmons85 | 12.17.07 - 3:56 pm | #
I think we should start a Nationwide Saban to West Virginia Mafia (NStWVM). This group would advocate complete chaos in the college coaching world, except at Michigan and LSU.
RHAmmer: in last year's OSU game, did you miss all of the times English only covered 3 wides at the top of the screen with TWO defenders?
That happened multiple times. That is poor coaching.
00goblue00 - have you re-photoshopped your "twins" pic and replaced LM with RR yet????
c'mon - it would make a great xmas tshirt for your fiance!
Formerly an Oakland County snob, now relocated to ultra-friendly Toronto. . . . .
now THIS is hilarious.
W. Va song about Rich Rod (to Alanis Morrissette (sp?):
http://www.wvaq.com/upload/file/
...oachRodSong.mp3
BREAKING NEWS
Scouts Insider is now reporting that Terrelle Pryor will commit to Michigan later this week.
McGuffie remains a commit.
TP and McG in the backfield. Suck it, O state.
Breaking news: The 20 million copies of Michigan's playbook from the last decade have been pulled off store shelves, a ploom of smoke from the Midwestern US has beens spotted by numerous satellites which is assumed to be the burning of the 175 million copies of Michigan's playbook that were owned by every living thing in Big Ten country. Videos of opposing players standing on the sidelines while playing Michigan and laughing as they read copies are being posted on opposing teams blog sites with subtitles like 'thanks for the memories' and 'sad to see you go'.
To Lloyd's credit, he has recruited a lot more speed the last 2 classes and should fit nicely into the new system in the near future. WVUs offensive scheme with the ability to attract national talent....I'm so excited it hurts...need beer to blunt the pain.
We do indeed have a real chance to crush OSU once or twice. . . every season.
Am I the only one not convinced that McGuffie even gets significant reps next year?
I'm tempted to start calling RichRod Rich "By God" Rodriguez.
Caup - again, not advocating for RE's sainthood here... as for those specific points in the game, I would bet there was a directive to contain T.Smith that would dictate a zone secondary coverage that got caught undermanned a few times...
We do indeed have a real chance to crush OSU once or twice. . . every season.
T-Boy
Once RR-led teams are stable I may lobby for Big Ten playoffs. It would be odd to crush the same team during consecutive weeks. But I could used to the feeling. PB&J!
I wanted to keep English because I think he has potential, but if we get RR's staff intact, it's all good.
@Big Jim
No dice...RR doesn't do it for me like Les does. lol. Sorry to disappoint!
Oakland County is the real OC. It has actually ranked higher in wealth than Orange County California. They just have a beach and warm weather year round which makes it more appealing for shows and such.
i know he will be around practice...but i would really like ot see him involved in practice....
everyone alwyas talks about how important BOWL PRACTICES are to a program.. in todays age with limits of practice days.....
Begging...nice!
Gosh. That song just kept going & going & going, eh?
Ick
\TP and McG in the backfield.//
Man, that Ferrari's warming up even as we speak...
Yeah, think of what Arrested Development woulda been like in Auburn Hills.
chi, I think McGuff will not be featured, but be used as a weapon. Sort of like Devine.
T Smith was in the shotgun with an empty backfield. Never EVER cover 3 WRS who are on the same side of the LOS with only 2 DBs.
NEVER. That is NEVER good coaching.
NEVER.
chitown,
RB us up for grabs next year....hopefully everybody will be in the rotation so we have fresh talented legs going at all time.
What I loved about Bo's teams while I was growing up is that 3 to 4 RB's contriubuted and could beat you at any time.....Woolfolk, Edwards, Ricks then Morris, White, Perryman then Boles, Huard, Jefferson, Bunch.....loved those days, and with the stable of backs we have, there no reason they shouldn't all contribute....this riding of 1 and only 1 RB has got to go.
T Smith was in the shotgun with an empty backfield. Never EVER cover 3 WRS who are on the same side of the LOS with only 2 DBs.
NEVER. That is NEVER good coaching.
NEVER.
CAUP '91 | 12.17.07 - 4:18 pm | #
I believe this happens all the time in zone coverage.
I meant to say "same side of the formation."
Jamie Mac,
It's possible, yeah. But I think that Brown, Minor, and Grady have shown enough to warrant being involved in the rotation.
I've been loving the idea of McGuffie coming in as the rocket/slasher type & Carlos Brown developing into the smasher/up the gut guy for a little variety.
Chitown,
If there are 3 WRS up on the LOS on the same side of the formation, even a zone coverage must have someone to cover each of those guys. Even if its a LB. If you've ever seen anything otherwise, its a coaching fuck-up.
JamieMac, that's a very good point.
If you're looking for a "smasher", it's Grady, if healthy. Brown's the fastest of the 3 returning, he's just not shifty - more of a one cut and run....
I just hope the RBs d/n fumble often. Grady comes to mind.
CAUP,
You said 2 DB's. Zone coverage will have 2 DB's there all the time. The shorter routes are covered by a linebacker(s).
I don't know enough about RR's DC to really judge if he's better than English or not, but I just like English. I was hoping to see how much of the D's issues were tied to Carr and how much were his own.
Do you think they gave RR the CD's of The Victors so that he could learn the words on the flight home? He's gotta teach those guys how to sing it so they can perform. . . .every damn Saturday!
I'll believe Pryor when I see it....that said, we got a good shot at getting him....dont believe all the OSU guys who say its a done deal, some of the people I know who follow recruiting say he had actually eliminated OSU already because he has problems w/ the offense. It was pretty much Oregon vs WVA, but now we're in the mix.....others who follow recruiting, though, also say OSU remains strong in the mix and would be shocked if he did not go there. Obviously mixed reports there, so I think TP is still giving the Bucks a strong look.....obviously, we just made a major and unexpected play in the TP sweepstakes.
RR has the offense covered; but has never created a defense to go with it.
Who has stopped it? Well Auburn comes to mind. They have twice stuffed FLA, which runs the spread-option attact.
Think we can hire that guy?
Chitownblue is correct. An Lb should be able to at least cover the flat if the CB bails or play the hook zone in the C2.
The only way its a major coaching fuck-up is if he has him playing man on the receiver. That's a prime and easily identifiable mismatch.
00goblue00: don't call it that.
...No one throw up the opp for an Arrested Development reference and expect me to miss it. Also, I don't want to see English go. I think he's learning and getting a lot better. Szabo is awesome and you have to like what Bedford did. So I'd really like for us to either bring in someone we know is better, Miles style.
This is weird though. You guys realize we maybe won't be able to predict the plays anymore. Nor will we recognize every pass play, because we'll have more than three.
It's just going to be so weird not being able to expect the same particular inclinations that have afflicted the program for the last 40 years.
Can't say about McGuffie. In that game on ESPN he had an injured ankle and was always backing into traffic. You never know how the trans. from hs to college will go. He fast, he has great vision and can juke, so I bet he does well if he stays injury free. Still, he's behind some prized recruits. By the way, Bama fans are very jealous down here. They can't figure out why a guy who would turn them down would accept at UM.
Don't ask me why I'm watching Oprah, but she did just say "Va-jay-jay".
This is (as far as I can tell) the best WVU blog out there...or at least with one of the best senses of humor:
http://pinfallmarks.blogspot.com/
And there's always the "Big Lebowski" connection, which should never be undervalued.
Interesting take on it all.
@loopy
You mean Will Muschamp. No, we can't hire him. He'll be picked up soon as a head coach.
WR WR WR c
C lb lb
S
typical cover three against trips...
i run a box set like this
wr wr wr c
c ss lb
fs
corner is a deep outside of box... nothing gets outside of him...
f/s is deep inside of box, nothing gets inside of him
ss is underneith ouside zone, flats
lb is underneith inside zone, hook/curl...
I'm not sure, but I think gsimmons, in coach-speak, confirmed that 2 DB's on 3 receivers is fairly standard in zone coverage.
gsimmions85: What would you do on the backside, especially w/ two receivers and an empty backfield like this:
q
wr wr wr tgcgt wr wr
I really think they should install my patented Chaos Theory Defense. Essentially everyone on defense just runs around completely randomly pre-snap so the offense has no effing clue what's going on and how to read it. Granted, it would lead to about 90 points against per game, but it would also have some totally awesome highlights from time to time.
Marvin - good, then we payed the Bama fans back for getting Shawn Alexander to decommit UM and go there instead.
dammit, didnt look like that when I posted it.
Bama fans are very jealous down here. They can't figure out why a guy who would turn them down would accept at UM.
Mmmm... because Bama sucks?
Hey, I'm so excited about next season that I just "Blue myself."
Yes, Will Muschamp. He should be a HC, but where? And, why wasn't he in the mix this time? Maybe a move to Mich and out of Aub gives him more visibility. At the least we should send out guy down there to see what he does, because he is the only one that I have seen who stops this spread-option thing consistently.
sorry tath doesnt look anything like i drew it up....
sorry thats why i hate trying to descride technique over the computer, there are suppose to be a lot of spaces ther, so you can see where they are lined up....
completely ignore that post id be better off just trying to explain it...
Yeah, we should hire Muschamp as a 1 game defensive consultant, at least. I like his insanity.
BOOM, MOTHERFUCKER!
T-shirt gold.
MDan,
We have the talent to replicate the success of those Bo rushing attacks....despite Harts greatness and Perry's fab last year, I never felt like we dominated physically with the run at all in recent seasons....some of that of course is shoddy S/C and we're just not strong enough....but a lot of times, I feel like our horse is not running at full speed......since we're talking about '06 OSU, recall both Pitmanm and Wells put a dagger in our heart w/ long TD runs.....where was our change of pace back....oh yeah, we didn't have one because LC didn't let any others play....sure sure Minor and Brown fumble at times, but maybe thats still a problem because they dont get enough live, real game reps....beanie had fumbiliits his freshmen year, Tresell kept giving rotations and it clearly paid off in the biggest game of the regulard season that season.
people,
Do you not remember when OSU had 3 WRs positioned way out WIDE near the sidelines, all in a row. What did RE do? He put 2 DBs on there on them. No LB was anywhere near them.
Scraming at the screen ensued.
Two of the WRS ran deep routes, running off our 2 DBs. The 3rd WR runs a short 8-yard curl route, uncovered, wide open. Pass and catch. 1st down. Repeated at least 4 times.
More screaming ensued.
RE FINALLY gets a 3rd defender out on their 3 wides.
COACHING FUCK UP. I don't care who says otherwise.
I just can't see us getting Pryor... That would be way too good to be true
yeah i know you cant draw it up on this basicly
box set.....
on trips side.....
cb deep corner, lines up on number 1
ss lines up either on number 2 or splits the difference between number 2 and 3 plays flats
lb lines up outside of normal shade... probalby over tackle or so, depending... and plays inside underneith.... hook, curl...
fs lines up deep over three, and plays deep inside post... or fly
on baxck side... if its empty with twins....
you play a triangle... with mlb, helping over the deep middle... (tampa 2 running the deep middle thrid)
olb takes undernieth....
flats...
corner takes deep quarter outside...
so you have a box look to the trips and triangle to the twins...
COACHING FUCK UP. I don't care who says otherwise.
CAUP '91 | 12.17.07 - 4:38 pm | #
The "fingers in your ears screaming 'lalalalalala'" argument always works well.
I really think would should go after Muschamp. If he was going he would be gone. And maybe some exposure in the "Game" and possibly a NC experience would get him the attention he deserves.
While that is going on, we would have the defensive equivalent to RR, IMHO.
Scout is saying Cissoko has softened his position. You guys think we lose him?
BILG
I was wondering the same thing but I don't wanna pay to see what he says...
the problem, was that the no lb in site was because that lb was tied up to stop the run... and contain troy smith...
the thrid reciever was probably the resp. of the safety
you cant have your cake and eat it too, which is why the spread is so hard to stop....
By "soften" I think they mean soften his views about leaving.
the problem, was that the no lb in site was because that lb was tied up to stop the run... and contain troy smith...
Thanks coach...
But someone does stop it: Auburn. And if they could put an offense with that D, they would be the beast of the SEC.
We need that guy, or to send our guy for a heavy dose of his knowledge, cause it would be well worth it.
Can't stay on long, but 2 things:
1.) Gsimmons-- apologize if you've already opined, but what is your opinion on the hire? Excited? good news? Great news?
2.) Scooter- I have a scout membership and I'd love for you to point out what "insider" broke the news that TP is coming to Michigan, as of this week-- because I don't see it.
Auburn has had some badass fast linebackers over the past few years. That helps. We seem to develop our linebackers -- with a few exceptions -- into Steve Morrison clones. Heavy and lumbering.
RR better get to work right away on winning over these recruits and players he is inheriting. While Lloyd couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag, he did not leave the cupboard bare by any means.
But someone does stop it: Auburn. And if they could put an offense with that D, they would be the beast of the SEC.
We need that guy, or to send our guy for a heavy dose of his knowledge, cause it would be well worth it.
fast defensive players....
see OK....
thats what stops it...... almost all defenses use the same schemes against spread, its all about jimmies and joes, not x's and o's..... and of course proper technique
English is worth keeping, no?
Probably lose some blue-chippers with that one. Poop.
@BILG
On the sports talk here in Alabama the host this afternoon was saying how Rodriguez is really in for it since Henne, Hart, "Jack" Long, and Manningham were all seniors (which is not true, obviously). I guess this means Rodriguez will have to rebuild?
BILG:
I don't love Cissoko's quotes, but the fact is, if English stays, he's 100% lock to stay at Michigan. If English isn't retained, I'd still put money on Cissoko coming to UM, but PSU is very much in the mix. But I'm curious if Cissoko realizes that PSU will be experiencing some turnover on the defensive side of the ball, coaching staff-wise.
ward,
yeah im excited.... im excited jsut like i would have been with grobe.... he is a good fit, not worried about the spread working here at all, it will be a passing spread with our current groupd of wr and qb's... the only thing you wont see is the zone read.... you will still see the zone playaction i presume....
I might be in the minority here, but I dont consider Henne, Hart, or even Long as among the best to have played at UM at their spots....so i'm not worried at "rebuilding" without them....we have the technology, we can rebuild....and we will w/ a much better S/C program!
gsimmons-
Glad to hear your opinion is positive (figured it would be). I see y'all have been talking defense, so I will, in fact, catch up on the thread before I kick out some questions of my own later.
What's this "playaction" thing?
Seriously though, I can hardly wait.
hope we still bring in the big time wr prospects.... to me the media frenzy about the zone game not fiting a passing qb style is blown way out of proportion and once recruits talk to rr and see what its all about, they will be back...
i hope anyway..... love michigan recievers....
Chitown,
sorry, I didn't mean to come off as having a hissy fit. What I meant was, THAT was a coaching fuck up and whoever says otherwise I call into question their knowledge of the game. Sorry, but I just do.
Look, when 3 WRs are separated wide at the top of the field like that, you MUST cover all 3 of them.
RE only realized his error after OSU laughed, shrugged, and KEPT THROWING TO THE OPEN MAN time and time again until Mr. Fiery Violent Yeller Guy put a 3rd man out there to cover the obvious coverage bust.
SOrry, gsimm, I'm not buying the "that's why the soread is so hard to stop" line. You've got to be a dime package and have an OLB and other DB shadowing the QB in ADDITION to covering the 3 WRs standing way out there by themselves.
fwiw, TP could have no. 11 right now
As much as I love Cissoko's highlights that I have seen, there is no single player on this planet that is worth retaining Ron English. That being said, I know Cissoko will make a sound decision. PSU will not be stable in the coaching arena for the next for years, that is a certainty.
play...action?
Jamie Mac-
Depends on the criteria for me. I evaluate college players differently from pro players (I tend to be subjective with the former and objective with the latter). With that, Henne isn't in my top 3 (but that's not a knock on the kid-- Michigan has had a shit ton of great QBs), Long IS definitely in my top 3, annnnnnnddd.... here's where I get subjective. Hart's my top back. I say this knowing that a team of A-Trains, C Perrys, Wheatleys, Morrises, etc., probably beat a team of Harts... but the kid gave too much for me not to let my heart take over and put him in my top spot (top 3 at worst)
imagine this....
mallett in shotgun.... tb of choice lined up next to him...
3 recivers to one side... 1 to other side.....
snap to mallett... zone run to left... but mallett pulls it out... and throws a slant to single covered wr....
playaction out of shotgun is soooooo much better, imo....
I think the only casualty on the recruiting front will be Wilson, an H back. Cissoko is just waiting to be wooed by RR. I think the rest stay home and we pick up other recruits we wouldn't have otherwise sniffed.
One of the biggest dividends of this hire, I think, is that recruiting will not implode.
You don't think RR will drop major love all over Boubacar? For someone who runs his defense, that guy is gold. Expect a happy Booby as soon as they meet.
gsimmons - as the resident coaching guru:
What's your thought on the pros/cons of the 3-3-5 vs. a standard defense?
Percy Harvin UF plays in an option spread,
Crabtree (TT) plays in a passing spread...
I am not too worried about losing recievers.
I could look it up, but too lazy;
Is PSU Boobs' only other prospect?
caup, i bow to your defensive wisdom....
***Recruting Update ****
My sons friend lives in Jeannette(PA)and talks to Terrelle Pryor,said he is very high on coach Rodriguez and is 90% sure he's coming to Michigan.
Love these uncheckable "big news" updates from anons...
Is your son's friend EErhole or Mexman?
mgobleu--
Yes, PSU is the only other option. He flirted with the idea of visiting Illinois, but backed off. Ditto for Tennessee. As of now, I'm thinking it's UM or PSU, and I'd bet pretty much anything he stays with UM.
Anon,
My grandma is dating Pryor and she told me he was still undecided.
Pryor to Michigan makes sense.
The fact that Michigan was on his list to begin with...Months ago....and we didn't even run his type of offense means that he likes the school/tradition.
Now that we run his style of offense and have a coach that he likes (but he probably wasn't too high on WVU tradition/location etc) it would not surprise if he comes to Michigan.
I talked to Pryor back in 'nam, man, he's definitely coming to Michigan.
Why the hell would I bullshit about it?
Worship me, you idiots.
Down boy.
I love the 3-3-5 simply because you have to have an excellent qb to decifer the coverages with a floater out there and the extra safety can still be used on run blitzes as necessary to present a seven man front if a team tries to pound you. Lets face it, with as small as many OLBs are anymore, many teams have already gone to this from a personel perspective anyway...speed kills and everyone knows it!!
CAUP- did I read this right? You say we need 2 spies in the dime to defend the spread option?
Re: Pryor. Anonymous, I don't buy it. Sorry, the kid is taking his time and while I really like UM's chances with RR on board, I don't buy that he's telling people he's coming... without having visited.
BUT.BUT.BUT. It has been said (months, months ago) that Terrel Pryor was VERY high on Michigan, but didn't want to adapt his game to the pro style system. Michigan, basically, was eliminated because of it's scheme. Smart money had him to OSU, but he did love RR's scheme a ton (with PSU as a dark horse). IF, IF Pryor liked Michigan as much as I've heard, it's plausible that our odds are very good as he may see UM as the best of both worlds now-- the school he originally liked PLUS the coach he wants to play for... but I don't buy he's telling people he's coming, unless I hear it from his cousin (Tony Clemons)... then, still, I won't buy it til Feb.
Sorry, anon.
Everybody likes to bullshit. Heard about 37 times that Miles was a "done deal" ya know?
gsimmons85, for what it's worth, I think you're totally right. Defending a spread option is all about personnel: you have to have cornerbacks that can cover man-to-man, and you have to have linebackers fast enough to contain a mobile quarterback. Spread offenses are designed to exploit mismatches, and if you've got a weak link on your team (*cough* Chris Graham *cough*), opponents will hammer it.
CAUP: in your hypothetical dime defense, is that man-free, two-deep, or three-deep? What coverage responsibilities do the linebackers have? What are the gap responsibilities of the defensive linemen? I like gsimmons85 and his technical explanations; I don't like theories that seem to be based on video games.
RR: "When you walk in – and I think that's why some of my coaches are excited – to a young recruit's home, when you've got the block 'M' on, they're going to sit up and listen to you. That's pretty exciting."
Schwing!
I am in telepathic contact with Terrelle Pryor. He wants me to give a big shout out to the folks in the mgoblog chats. He also says... wait... there's some interfence... OK, he wants to notify everyone that he's officially committing to Michigan. Thank you. That is all.
we ran some stack stuff this year,.... im telling you it is very simular to the 50 front stuff that we grew up watching bo run..... its not a gimmick defense.... the only thing i dont like about it is that its a cover three look, i prefer cover two look, with a down hill flat player if you are moving to three.... as far as blitz packages.... nothing better then stack 3.... i think you will see it morf into an old 50... or the new 3-4 (which is the modern 50) when we play the big ten schedcule with lots of double te and power looks....
What I heard he loved the coach and their system,but wanted to go to bigger name school than west virginia.That was his only drawback.
ThWard,
This reminds me a little of an "overrated" argument. Just because you say something is overrated does not mean they're bad......taking that thought to this conversation, just because they're not on my top list of UM players, does not mean they're bad either as we have had, well, tons of great NFL caliber players in our history.
We have lost tons of talent in the past, a lot of which I think were better than these guys....so I dont share the same worry as the Alabama talk radio dude about RR stepping into a rebuilding job because our "big 3" are leaving.
Anyway, Henne nowhere near my list of top UM QBs. I need to think a bit more about Long and where he stands. I think I give him some unecceassry blame for the poor OL play around him and thats maybe why I have downgraded him here initially. While I agree w/ everything you have said about Hart and treasure him as well, I think he is part of the "huddle masses" of good to great RBs we have had who are just a notch below our all time greats.
Of course, not winning vs OSU puts them all down the list regardless of talent/accomplishments.....but thats part of the deal, in my opinion.
JM- total agreement. Particularly about Henne. When I said he wasn't top 3, that's hardly an indictment. When healthy, that kid was as good as anyone (crazy that I'm saying 'was'- guess he still does have ONE game left for us). And leaving Michigan, a school respected for its QB lineage, with a ton of QB records is nothing to laugh at. But if I'm making "all-time" Michigan teams, he doesn't show up on the 1st-3rd teams (I'd have to think hard about where he goes... time/perspective help on this).
And also agree with you re: Hart, but dammit, my heart won't let my brain put him anywhere but top 2!!!
I sure am glad someone stole my handle. This is getting really stupid....
Let's not sweat individual recruits, m'kay? We already have plenty of talent and RR will maximize its potential while recruiting and landing precisely what he wants onboard.
beggin for mercy...
i kind of agree for with you... i guess its just different terminology....
i always see the stack as being like a 3-4 in terms of having 3 dlinemen who are two gap players.... unless blitzing....
and a 4-3 in terms of having 3 inside lbs.... responsable for 2 gaps...
and a 4-4 with two ouside lbs' who our sweep contain, and flat players....
Oh, JM... also, I realize that I sort of seized on a point you made regarding a different point. That is, you said you weren't concerned re: "rebuilding." Totally agree. I didn't see the "losing the Big 3" point that some radio hack made.
I'm very worried about losing Long, I'll be honest. But as much as I love Hart/Henne, the 08 team will have damn near as much talent as the 07 team.
ThWard, that was a typo - only 1 spy on the QB - either an OLB or DB.
Ken, considering the obvious overload formation OSU was putting out there, you MUST use a man-free. Any type of a zone coverage with 3 WRs lined up together so far away from everyone else CANNOT be proposerly covered with a LB playing off the tackle. That 3rd WR in their formation was nOT a slot receiver. It was 3 wides, WAY wide.
actyual question: do you guys not remember this?
and btw, I am not a coach, but I played and have been around FB my whole life. My brother was a DB for Bo. Please save the snark. I'm just trying to talk X's and O's here. And I do not even own a fucking video game.
00goblue00, with as many time as your handle gets jacked, maybe you should use a new one (and not tell anyone what the connection is).
I suggest "THE KNOWLEDGE", since that one is apparently now available.
Predicting the Road Ahead:
Aug. 30 UTAH (Probable win)
Sept. 6 MIAMI (OHIO) (Probable win)
Sept. 13 at Notre Dame (Probable win)
Sept. 27 WISCONSIN* (toss-up)
Oct. 4 ILLINOIS* (HC) (toss-up)
Oct. 11 TOLEDO (probable win)
Oct. 18 at Penn State* (GUARANTEED WIN)
Oct. 25 MICHIGAN STATE* (GUARANTEED WIN)
Nov. 1 at Purdue* (probable win)
Nov. 8 at Minnesota* (probable win)
Nov. 15 NORTHWESTERN* (probable win)
Nov. 22 at Ohio State* (probable loss)
I'll say 9-3 or better. I'd be pretty damn happy with a Big Ten Title next season.
English came to Michigan to get the Head Coaching job. He didn't get it. He will move on elsewhere. He interviewed for Arkansas. He is being mentioned for HC jobs. He is not hurting and will do well.
The Spread at Michigan if done right were Florida,if done wrong were Michigan State
@Ken
good idea except I don't feel like thinking of a new one
And people steal the knowledges handle all the time, so no thanks.
caup....
most would argue the opposite....
trying to play man against trips is suicide....
to each is own....
I'm going to hold off predicting 9 or 10 wins until I see that we have a QB that completes more than 50% of his passes and an OL that can block.
Fuck Terrell Pryor. Fuck. Him.
Let's send out a recruiter and a kilo to God and get Richard instead.
re Pryor: the night before OSU/PSU game in Happy Valley - Tressel and OSU buckets coach both together go to Pryor's HS football game. strong message. . . .
What hell is toledo doing in the middle of our schedule
Anonymous - same thing Eastern was doing last year, and Ball St. was the year before.
@ BigJim,
The equation has changed buddy. And if he was so sure back then, he would have committed already.
caup- got it, should have assumed as much, sorry.
speaking of THE KNOWLEDGE: I wasn't around yesterday. Did he apologize for his ridiculousness? Oh. That's right. Making stupid predictions on anonymous boards is idiotic, regardless of whether or not you then anonymously apologize for said stupid prediction.
Gotta say- love that Michigan has had a coach for one day (officially) and you guys are already diving into the X/Os... best blog around, best comments section around. Kudos.
I'm thrilled about RR-- I think we ALREADY have the personnel for RR to use it effectively next year. I think our recruiting class will be fine- might take a few bumps, might get a few guys we wouldn't normally get, but all in all, we're fine. REALLY curious to see how the staff shakes out.
CAUP, I sincerely apologize for the snark... it was unnecessary and uncalled for.
I just think that some folks (myself included) take issue with categorical statements like "there's only one way to defend XXX". Sure, it's logical that you'd have 3 DBs covering 3 WRs stacked wide. But even if you just have two DBs out there, if they're playing zone and can avoid getting picked off a play, they can disrupt the flat patterns long enough for help to arrive. A deep safety can pick up whoever happens to sneak out of the bunch.
gsimm, yes I usually agree, but RE didn't even have a safety rotating over to pick up one of the deep routes. He had 2 DBs playing MAN on 3 WRs.
I mean, c'mon, that's just dumb.
Either that or the DBs were so porly coached that they didn't understand their correct responsibilities.
Guaranteeing I can get a bunch of tickets when the relatives show up in town and want to go to a game.
The NCAA added a 12th game but didn't allow the Big Ten to start before labor day weekend. The big Ten had a self-imposed "no games after Thanksgiving" rule that was just recently changed (effective 2009). Hence, we had to put the extra game in our "bye" week. Same thing happend in 2006 with the Ball State game.
dont rememeber the play caup... so im not arguing what he did or did not do wrong.,.. im simply stating how i play agasint trips, and how i have seen it played....
Guaranteeing I can get a bunch of tickets when the relatives show up in town and want to go to a game.
Other Chris
Assuming I understand this post correctly, no, you will not be able to grab a bunch of Wolverine tix so readily in the future. RR will stoke demand like never before.
Coach Walks in Knocks the snow off his shoes"Mr.and Mrs. Pyror how are you."
"fine, fine" Terrelle, coach tressel is
here.Enter Terrelle with a Michigan cap and Block M t-shirt,"sorry coach"Tressel
Slinks back out the door.
Stop stealing my handle, jackass.
Any everyone, just bow down and worship me already.
NOW!
okay, I think we're all pretty close close to being on the same page. ken, I agree about jamming if you have a smart and fast safety ready to rotate over to cover the deep routes. ut that just wasn't happening.
It was pitch and catch.
Again, don't you guys remember this? It was frustrating to watch.
That's what Toledo is doing in the middle of the schedule. As with EMU this year.
But true, maybe not so much this year.
I think that, without revamped coaching/conditioning, our OL was headed for a world of hurt. With a new staff and someone to whip Schilling, Boren, Cuilla, McAvoy and either Dorrentstein or Moosman into shape, we'll be just fine.
don't forget we redshirted about 10 kids from the '07 class, they are all sitting on 4 years, any of those dudes got the chops for RR's gameplan?
MDan, our big uglies are gonna be SCARY good with this new S&C coach. I can't wait. Michigan is gonna be lighting teams up.
Maybe we can get back to the toughness we once had,when guys like our center steve everitt played half the season with a broken jaw.
Stop stealing my handle, jackass.
Any everyone, just bow down and worship me already.
NOW!
00goblue00
okay seriously...not funny...get a life... it's not cool, or hilarious to come to a message board and jack peoples handles. It's lame and it's old, and no one find it funny, no matter who's name you steal.
I've seen man coverage against trips bite defenses in the ass. It's a prime to be exploited with a pick play. Saw it this weekend when the Jags, did it to the Steelers. The middle receiver will make a run at the inside db and rub him off (insert perverted joke here), the inside db will lose a step, and the inside receiver will be open in the flat w/ no support on the outside.
You can man occasionaly, but it shouldn't be your primary defense against the trips.
@gsimmons85
we ran some stack stuff this year,.... im telling you it is very simular to the 50 front stuff that we grew up watching bo run..... its not a gimmick defense.... the only thing i dont like about it is that its a cover three look, i prefer cover two look, with a down hill flat player if you are moving to three....
Ok, lots of technical coachspeak in there, but I think gsimmons you're saying that a risk you take with a 3-3-5 stack defense is that the 3rd guy up top is too far to have a meaningful impact on the running game...correct?
But if I understand the 3-3-5 correctly (and I don't), the third guy is a rover that will position himself low/high based on playcall and presnap read. So I guess the risk is mitigated if you've got good personnel that have been coached up. But isn't that always the case?
very rarely did we run man agasint trips, are default was "box box box" safety to the side would rotate down... fs rotate over, and box zone we were in.... automatic rush from the trips side....
on ocassion depending an opponent.... we would run some man free very unlikeley though... and hold your breath time...
Center Steve Everitt also played with a broken hand - learned to snap the ball with his left.
I hate this discussion on X's and O's strategy. It's so lame and old.
I hate this discussion on X's and O's strategy. It's so lame and old.
Agreed
Dont break it down for us
mmkay. considering that wasn't really me. I don't give a shit what you guys discuss. I came in just to read the comments and noticed someone jacked my handle yet again.
I'm changing it, so have fun pretending to be me, loser.
CAUP '91, I vaguely remember what you were talking about at the OSU game last year. It was in the second half that was going on- Troy Smith kept pitching and catching the whole damn way down the field.
I interpreted it differently, however. I thought it was just a zone defense, compensating for a blitz coming from somewhere else. It looked to me like it was just executed in a lazy, shitty fashion. But perhaps there was more going on.
Should we go looking for last year's OSU UFR?
How do we know its not you pretending not to be you.
typical three three stack stuff....
note, you cant draw it up here correctly
-------x-------otogcogot-----x---x----
---------------de--dt--de----------------------
olb--mlb-mlb-mlb---olb-----
-------c---------------fs---------c
very basic set there.... one of the olb's would be what you guys are calling monster or whatever rover... the other is a ss type....
i like to have the olb's be both...
this is a cover three look...
why would I waste my time doing that? I don't want attention on this board. I don't give a crap if people respond to my comments. I have better things to do than pretend that someone stole my handle on here...
I agree with those who have said that RR will be able to implement at least the basic elements of his scheme with Michigan's current players. I wonder, too, what might have been were Bass healthy. Can you imagine what RR could do with his athleticism and speed? Sigh.
crap did that screw up
gah.....
mlb's stacked over the de and tackles...
olbs spliting difference or over number two whatever you want
corners and fs deep thirds
Ugh.... please, one 00goblue00 is bad enough without making more of them. Stop, you bastards.
Relax the plays break down,who is that Neil and Bob or is just what you guys do?
I think the X's and O's talk is great.
Thanks to CAUP and GS for the good stuff, and thanks to GS for the informative info on candidates over the past 4 weeks.
Anon, you are so lame and old.
Okay skippy
hey michigan fan, you are welcome... i dont think i really added much just giving some of my perspective as a coach, and what i have learned from some of these guys that we were talking about...
Is that the real one or the fake one
@anon
fake. I don't say shit like that to people on here.
ThWard,
One last note about "best ever" at UM.....you are allowed to let your heart put hart near the top.....my list would hardly be the "all knowing" one and would certainly include guys on there who are only as high on there because of what they meant to me while growing up or during whatever era they played. This is clearly a great off season topic for the blog, though.
And, I am sure we can all agree the best CB was Woodson and best Punter was Monte Robbins.....but Zoltan has him in his sights.
GS and CAUP are so boring. It sucks. I don't give a damn. Why don't you losers discuss offline, and keep this mboard interesting.
I want more talks of the social scene and the homeless.
Git be gone. Time to depart from nearly 30 years of insanity. Most of which featured long outdated training methods. Fans should notice the difference at some point. We should start to get a push up front from the o-line not to mention a bit stouter d-line play for starters.
*****fake one *****GS and CAUP are so boring. It sucks. I don't give a damn. Why don't you losers discuss offline, and keep this mboard interesting.
I want more talks of the social scene and the homeless.
00goblue00
We've spotted your "tell" now.
I enjoy the Xs and Os talk also, guys. It definitely enhances my understanding and enjoyment of the game. Keep up the good work.
stop stealing my great name now. you loser! you better bow down and kiss my feet now.
JM. Exactly. I'd have a tough time coming up with the "correct" UM team because of how biased I am towards certain players (not that there is one "correct" team).
If I just watched Remy's kick against ND, he'd be my top K. If I just watched Timmy B tear up OSU, he'd be my top RB. If I just saw Zoltan make our only legitimate highlight v. OSU this year (60+ yards!), he'd be my top. Then I'd get depressed that a 60 yard punt was our only highlight v. OSU.
@GS -
Rate the coaches in order in your opinion:
Miles, Schiano, Rich Rod
In other words, based on what you know, did we get the best of those three?
Does anyone know much about the other QBs on the roster other than Mallett? Anyone that might fit the bill for a run-oriented spread offense? Is it conceivable that one of those may be the new guy under center? These are the other QBs currently on Michigan's roster, according to ESPN:
12 David Cone QB 6-6 214 So. Greenville, NC
17 Lee Mondol QB 6-2 205 So. Ventura, CA
8 Nick Sheridan QB 6-1 201 So. Saline, MI
10 Steven Threet QB 6-5 228 Fr. Adrian, MI
10 Jeff Ziegler QB 6-6 211 So. Dexter, MI
mfan,
bassed on what i know , its not even close.... on sheer football knowledge....
a buddy coach of mine that played at wvu spent almost evey summer with him....
he is pretty upset by the way...
i meant my buddy spent every summer talking with him about x and o stuff....
he was a full back, he benches about 500 pounds today at 31 years old, and he saysa that wvu's s and s coach was the best in the country, for what its worth...
ChicaGoBlue -
Unless I missed something, Antonio Bass is forecast to be 100% in 2008. And with two years of eligibility remaining, Bass could lay a solid foundation for Pryor in terms of aclimatizing the rest of the team to the RR playbook. Then again, I d/n rule out Mallett for that role.
whoa!!!!! bass,,, gah i didnt even think he was going to be able to play!? you tlak about someone who could bring a chnage of pace!?
ThWard,
I think its a great off season blog topic.....i was actually kdding about Monte Robbins, just thought it was funny to bring his name up....was wondering is some of the guys from the 70s and 80s had any comments on him....i think he was a pretty damn good punter, iirc....kickers, my personal fav was ali haji sheik, but i think, at least in the last 30 years, Mike Gillette was the most talented...but then look at what Jay Feeley is doing as a pro.....was he even our regular kicker when he was UM?
And you folks thought the X's and O's might be dry.....we're talking kickers here people....kickers!!!!
to tell you the truth x and o stuff is boring... i mean thats why i admire brian so much, i couldnt imagine breaking down film for fun... excpet that its my profession, i love it and want to be the best at it....
@gsimmons85
I'm so fired up about the possibility of WVU's S&C coming with RR. I cannot wait to see what he can do with UM's talent.
Coach gsimmons85 -
Pre-injury Bass had all the athleticism and awareness RR could hope for. Now, t's a case of who knows. But Bass is supposed to have recovered his knee 100%.
Has something changed recently in terms of Bass' injury? Last I heard, Carr had all but ruled him out from ever playing again, qualifying his statement only to the extent that Bass has deep reserves of determination and might be able to overcome his injuries with enough hard work and rehab. Has anyone else heard otherwise?
A little late to the game here, but this comment is so poorly thought out I thought it was a joke at first.
"I think the only problem English has is getting players to do want he tells him to do. His half time adjustments are amazing and I think some of the 'adjusting' involves getting players to buy into his game plan. This is both good (good game plan) and bad (obvious reasons. I really hope he stays and becomes a polished HC."
So the players somehow spend the *entire week* not really buying into his game plan, but after two quarters of football and a little pep talk, they decide at halftime that they should listen to their coach?
Not only does that make no sense, if it were true, it would be a sign of a *huge problem* not good coaching and amazing adjustments!
My grandfather wrote for SNL a while ago, says he knows Pryor well and that he is coming to UM.
Now he says he may be thinking of someone else. But I'm running with it.
...thats right, we bad.....
@Ken
"By the way, I hope this dispels the myth that Bill Martin was "forcing" coaching prospects (i.e. Miles) to retain assistants like [NAME REDACTED]. The two-year contracts for the assistants that Lloyd negotiated last year were merely to ensure that they'd all be taken care of while they spent time looking for new jobs."
Are you kidding? After getting hosed on their first two "attempts" at getting a coach (with a purportedly "frugal" offer) Barnacle Bill realized that he better pull his head out of his... and get the job done. They opened the pocketbook for RR, why shouldn't we believe that they'd drop demands on the staff? If anything their change of approach in bringing in RR makes it *more* believable that they were placing those demands with LM or GS.
Any info on Bass's situation would be appreciated. I thought his football career was over. If he's back, that would change everything about the qb situation next year.
I'm somewhat foggy on the appeal of Antonio Bass. Anyone want to give me the scoop?
Dave, I have heard that he is done.
"Antonio Bass is forecast to be 100% in 2008."
^^Unequivocally, Bass will NEVER play D-1 college football ever again. I wish that were untrue, but sadly he's done.
thats what i thought too, oh well maybe someone knows something we dont...
later guys, i have bball practice have a good night!!!!
gsimmons,
I might have said it was dry, but i do love the stuff..please keep it coming. I mean I am a history major, so dry works for me.....and that was a 00goblue00 imposter a few posts up who bitched about you guys, that was not her....i'm pretty sure we all like the stuff you guys were talking about as we're all trying to learn.
Speaking of learning, I still have Aub-Fla on DVR, so I might fire that up tonight and see what War Eagle did to stop them.....watching it cant be worse than the Teddy Bears-Viqueens on MNF.....iirc, War Eagle stopped them by using ball control offense more than anything....I think they had twice as many plays on O in the first half, maximized their scoring drives into TDs and played with the lead the whole way.
The best defense against a powerful spread is a good offense that can either score with it, keep it off the field or both.
"thats what i thought too, oh well maybe someone knows something we dont...
gsimmons85 | 12.17.07 - 6:00 pm | # "
^^If they do, it's a flat-out lie. I'm not one to tout any 'insider info' or whatever, but on this one my information is absolutely solid. I have no problem staking my credibility to it either (and that is something I don't just throw around).
jamie, history major here as well...
i think you will be impressed with the team speed of auburns' d....
their dline is very fast, and underrated....
Woooo Michigan History!!!
Mary Kelly 'disciple' here...and yes, dry is gooooood.
JM- history major here as well (John Bacon was the history commencement speaker at my department grad ceremony-- glad to be reading his book right now).
Feely was reduced to only doing kickoffs, IIRC... didn't see him doing much in the pros!
well i didnt get to go to undergrad at michigan, i had to go to harding in ark, just wasnt a dI athlete...scollie opportunities for me where few and far between. and didnt qualify for michigan then even if i was....
does this mean UM will implement WVUs 3-3-5? Gosh, what a horrendous idea...
Hey Guys,
I want to check out an OSU blog and see what the buckeyes are saying about our hire. Anyone know of blog where semi-smart, thats about as good as it gets, buckeye fans hang out?
"Anyone know of blog where semi-smart, thats about as good as it gets, buckeye fans hang out?"
^^NOT the library.
Chill -
I only know what I was told. If wrong, then I was messed with deliberately and will apologize somewhere on these boards accordingly. I am not a rumour-monger. My friend, who should be an informed person, told me that one reason Carr retained Bass on scholarship was they had long term expectation the injury could be repaired by UM MDs. I'm not the most gullible person either.
ThWard:
I got his book at Mad River Bar in Chicago before the Illinois game. The group I was with had to name the numbers retired by UM football and who wore them.
We had a good run of kickers there for awhile. Hamilton, Baker, Feeley, Epstein. We dropped waaaay off with Garrett Rivas, and our latest batch has dropped waaaay off of Rivas. Blech.
Before Emperor Zoltan, I don't ever remember Michigan having a good punter. There was a guy in the early '90s that could regularly punt 60 yarders, but only when he needed to pooch it. Any other time and he would badly shank it. I hated that guy.
ThWard,
Yeah, I dont remember Feely kicking FGs here, glad my memory is not that short term.
Guys, yes, a history major (and journalism) I am......but sadly, not at UM....i am afraid I might lose all credibility on this blog if I actually came clean on where my degrees are from.
Adam Finley was a good punter.
As if you needed more reasons to backup the assertion that Terry Foster is a total douchebag who needs to be fired from both jobs he is employed at
TF - "Here is another aspect to the hiring. Michigan hired basketball coach John Beilein from West Virginia also and here is the dirty little secret that played out in Morgantown. Beilein and Rodriguez don't get along."
AA news from press conf - ""(Rodriguez) gets along with everybody. He's a winner. Rich was born to be a football coach."
Now that Rodriguez is on board as Michigan's coach, Beilein plans to be a resource for him.
"I'm going to help Rich a lot with this transition," he said. "It's not easy to make a move like this. There's an awful lot you leave behind."
Rodriguez said he'll look forward to that.
"It's nice to be on the same staff with him again."
More great reporting from TF's "sources" or "Moles" (Rob Parker TM) or whichever disgruntled members of Lloyd's staff that leaked that dung
And Jeff Delverne was a reliable, if not spectacular kicker. If you got him to the 30, he'd make it. Beyond that...no way.
You left out Mike Gillette inter alia. Gillette was my hs QB. A damn fine kicker if you ask me and, at one point, our leading scorer all-time.
They opened up the pocket books for RR? I thought he was around 2.4 million, which I highly doubt was any more than what we offered Les & Schiano (if we indeed offered).
Chillmodious
How bad was Antonio Bass' injury? He would make a great option QB.
steviey- next time you're at MR, I recommend the Hangover burger. Fried egg. Mmmmhhhmmm...
cfaller- you've apparently repressed memories of Nienberg/Brabbs. Good for you, sir!
I also remember Finley as a good punter. He looked like a 40 year old man, but he was a good punter IIRC.
Was anyone else here at that U of Washington home game where Brabbs nailed like a 50-yard game winner after knocking over the corner-pylons with his two previous attempts? That was AMAAAAAAAZING.
@ EudaemonicPie:
No worries at all. Just saying.
Also, I think the REAL reason Lloyd kept him was because he felt personally responsible for the injury happening. I guess Bass wasn't supposed to be practicing that day, etc...but not sure exactly how it all shook out.
Damn, this place is full of history majors. I only got Prof. Juan Cole to speak a the history commencement.
AH, SO RICHMOND RODRIGUEZ GOT THE JOB, EH?
THIS IS SO MICHIGAN. THEY CAN FIGHT FOR AFFIRMATIVE IN THE COURT, BUT THEY WILL NOT HIRE A BLACK COACH.
WHAT DO THEY DO INSTEAD? THEY HIRE THE HISPANIC RICHMOND.
DISGUSTING.
oh boy...here we go w/ the trolls who type in caps lock.
Wolverines for Terrelle Pryor facebook group:
http://emory.facebook.com/group....?
gid=6400308388
"Chillmodious
How bad was Antonio Bass' injury? He would make a great option QB.
Ben from SF | 12.17.07 - 6:14 pm | # "
^^Bad enough to end his college career forever.
Yeah, Brabbs had the accuracy of a shotgun (less range though) but that UW kick erased a LOT of misses from my memory. Still, for two years, Michigan's kicking game was anything but reliable... Rivas actually grew on me, he was solid as hell his last year.
Brabbs is also a helluva nice guy, from what I understand. You kick a game winner against a big time opponent AND you're a solid dude, that's alright in my book. Missed 30 yarders, be damned, I say.
Chitown,
I was at that game....the place went so nuts when the FG went through, like a religious hallejah, because none of us had any hope he would make it....cripes, he missed a pair of chip shots in the 2nd half or we wouldn't have even been in that spot.
gsimmons85/CAUP91/MDan/Dank/folks with far more Xs/Os knowledge than I do:
what do you think about the view I'm already hearing on the radio that running the spread means you can't have a defense physical enough to hang in the B10? Totally stupid? Some truth to it?
Oh and Ross Ryan was a pretty good punter too, pretty accurate and got the ball off real quick. Didn't have nearly the leg that ZTI has though. I remember at the CMU game last season when on a PR he LAID some dude out...I actually have a pic of it: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=...pic=80my246&
s=1
Chillmodius right- this Bass talk is a pipedream. Kid's gotta bright future in front of him, I think. Worked his ass off to try to rehab and gained a lot of respect from those associate with the program, will graduate from UM... he'll be fine. But no, won't be playing football.
Feeley split time with Baker, I believe. Feeley was the distance placekicker and kickoff specialist. Baker was the pinpoint accuracy guy. Or at least that was the theory.
Which reminds me of something that's bothered me about the Feeley/Baker split and the Gingell/Brabbs/Lopata early season fiasco we saw this past season. I understand the idea that some guys are more power hitters, and some guys are accuracy specialists. But don't you want to just go with the guy that has the biggest leg, and coach him up on the accuracy thing?
To me, kicking power == football speed, in that you can't "coach" it. So why did Lloyd fuck around with Gingell, and why did he collar the guy with more power (Brabbs or Lopata, I can't remember)? Why keep the more talented leg on the bench?
shit. gtg. Send any Bass-related queries, or whatever else, to my email: chillmodious@gmail.com
Peace all.
Didn't Brabbs only play that game and one more? We replaced him with Nienburg, briefly, who could only hit extra-points. After that, if I remember, Punter Adam Finley finished the year as our kicker.
Chill -
Agree. Carr w/h kept Bass regardless, Carr being Carr and Bass being a good student from what I hear. I'll pull up to the snack bar and eat my humble pie like a man if wrong. Even if 100%, it's still who knows territory.
@ThWard,
EX @ UM?
Cfaller Brabbs isn't on the team anymore btw. I think you're thinking of Bryan Wright.
More often, a team the runs the spread does not have the overall talent on both sides of the ball. They run the spread to gain an advantage and hope for the best on defense.
I remember OSU running the spread w/ Troy Smith. I think those defenses were good. Same w/ Florida.
I just hope that Rich Rod hires a special team coach. Poor protection had a lot to do with our kicking and punting woes.
Just to let you know--WVU ran the spread punt formation. So if you watch them punt and you have visions of the 2003 Iowa game in your head, be forwarned.
Spread punt = feel like I have to vomit.
Spread punt = feel like I have to vomit.
Chitownblue
Trumps consistently "going for it" on fourth in poor situations.
Was anyone else here at that U of Washington home game where Brabbs nailed like a 50-yard game winner after knocking over the corner-pylons with his two previous attempts? That was AMAAAAAAAZING.
Chitownblue 00 | 12.17.07 - 6:16 pm | #
Brabbs went to my high school, lol. Any football player who studies engineering has my respect.
@kgh10
Thanks, yes, the kickers' names are melting together in my mind. But my question remains: why consciously go with the guy who doesn't have the biggest leg? Why not just "coach him up" to increase his consistency?
It always seemed to me that the guys with the smaller legs were always trying to max out on their 30+ yd kicks, thus degrading the whole "consistency" advantage they supposedly had.
Gingell seemed to be the prototype "accurate but trying too hard to really be consistent" kicker, IMO. You can't coach kicking power, IMO.
You guys are discussing punters??!?
@ Chitownblue
I was at that game. I was about ready to leave, too, but I stuck around and that happened. Awesome.
MDan,
Yes we are.....i dropped a Monte Robbins reference and the rest is history!
Whose your favorite all-time UM kicker and/or whose the best.
Going off of spring practices and everything we heard, I was very surprised Lopata didn't come out with the starting job. If not Lopata, than the scholarship kicker in Wright. When I saw Gingell line up out there for the first time, I was definitely confused.
As for Wright...he handled a lot of our kickoffs and lemme just say all power and no accuracy...period. I know it's strange to say he's got no accuracy on kickoffs, but he's definitely a shanker. I wasn't upset we didn't go with him and "coach him up" because I thought Lopata was our best and most accurate kicker and had a middle of the pack power which is pretty overrated in most cases. Gingell proved he didn't have much of either, which was the most confusing. Prolly a great kid, so I won't trash him too much, but definitely frustrating. I'm not gonna act like I know more than our coaches, but Lopata seemed to be the obvious choice.
@ cfaller96
To me, Gingell seemed like a oops-I-missed-a-kick-and-100,000-people-hate-me type of kicker.
It was pressure that got to him, not trying to kick the ball too hard, etc.
All kickers are evil.
When in doubt, we should choose the kicker that looks the most like a fullback or TE...aka Rivas or Lopata. Those guys were huge. I don't trust skinny kickers/punters.
Whose your favorite all-time UM kicker and/or whose the best.
jamie mac
Mike Gillette per a post above. Leg, accuracy, and clutch mindset. Ask ND fans. Plus Gillette could throw it.
Frankly, Brabbs is up there for my favorites. Like I said, hit a big game winner, you jump into the mix, flaws be damned. I liked Remy Hamilton, too.
ATL Blue: Just saw your q-- Yes. Do I know you?
How about some Buckeye reaction from BuckeyeCommentary to spice things up:
"If Henton can take the initiative to be the man of the future for the Buckeyes, I won't sweat the loss of Pryor at all."
...and...
"I would like Pryor to come to OSU, but if he doesn't so be it. I really have a hard time believing he would start over Henton anyone due to his experience with the offense."
Bwaaahaha! Are they for real? We are not talking about soliciting hookers, but playing football.
I loved Rivas, I dunno why...I thought his chubbiness was charming and he got a lot of heat for no good reason. I like guys who are somewhat underappreciated.
Skinny kickers are bad. Like Jason Hanson.
They are really stupid on BuckeyeCommentary:
"R going to michigan will help our defense to become even better, since they will have to shutdown that style of gimmicky offense.
What's even more funny, RR will not understand the rivalry just like cooper did not get it. RR is a low character kinda guy and this just highlights how low Michigan has sunk.
I look forward to the Buckeyes stepping up and manhandling these style of offenses. The Bucks should develop a Spread Option Killer D (SOKD) or (SOK-D)."
The reason why people like chubby kickers is because they are the people on the field that most look like themselves.
@ThWard,
yeah, my old handle was 'pickles', but I decided to do away with that one...
Hope this Buckeye knows what he's talking about: "Given what Pryor has been saying the last couple of weeks, and especially today, I'd say the deal is done. He's going wherever RR goes."
MDan, all kickers are evil?!?! Wow, you sound like the ignoring of special teams lloyd carr...ha ha, just yanking your chain, of course.
Eud,
Gillette was great.....he missed a big one vs ND, however, but he hit a big game winner in 1986 vs Iowa, as a freshman, the week after being temporarily kicked off the team by Bo for violating team rules.....one of the few at UM to handle all the kicking duties in one year.
Hahaha, no shit. Weird coincidence, huh (FB and Mgoblog?)
Liking Atlanta?
I love Buckeyes trying to rationalize. Badly. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
yeah Atlanta's great, have to come on here to get away from all the SEC nonsense we have to endure down here though. Chicago treating you (and everyone else) well?
I like how all the Buckeyes try to make comparisons between RR and Cooper.
Getting an honest Buckeye reaction is like hunting unicorns. Waste of your time.
All of the knocks OSU fans had on Michigan (according to scout boards)-- 1.) s/c 2.) offensive innovation 3.) "passion"
We hire a 44 year old coach who brings all that to the table and now it's, "Meh, I'm not impressed."
That's fine. They shouldn't "worry" about any team as they'll be sitting pretty with JT for another 6-10 years... but the post-RR comments and post Pryor-rumors comments are just more evidence of blind hate.
Love Chicago-- decent amount of us up here.
Our very own on BuckeyeCommentary stirring it up...
"Yeah, you're not worried that the original creator (ask Urban Meyer) of the spread just got a job with your biggest rival, and may bring the best QB recruit in the country with him? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Get ready for the heartbreak headed your way. Tressel is 6-1 against UM. You know who else started 6-1? Lloyd Carr. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Jim Harbaugh Scramble | Homepage | 12.17.07 - 2:32 pm | #
@kgh10
When in doubt, we should choose the kicker that looks the most like a fullback or TE...aka Rivas or Lopata. Those guys were huge. I don't trust skinny kickers/punters.
Ah, so you're of the "Sebastian Janikowski is God" school? Well, I don't disagree, however I never liked Garrett Rivas. I never warmed up to him, even when he became consistent in his senior year. Too many memories of him blowing a mid-30s kick in his younger days, I guess. Was that 2003 when we totally were owning Purdue in West Lafayette, yet Purdue was in the game because Rivas missed two or more kicks?
As you can tell, I don't really like kickers to begin with. They're starting off on the wrong foot with me anyways (PUN!). Kickers and breaststrokers in swimming- just a different breed of cat that I have trouble warming up to. Blech.
@ The Voice of Reason
I realize there are a few schools with good football and basketball programs. But there aren't many.
Pryor is considering Florida and OSU, which both have pretty good programs.
However, I still don't think Michigan's basketball team would be a backbreaker. He's a football player first and foremost. He'll probably play in the NFL. He's going to choose his school based MOSTLY on football. If he likes Rodriguez and his system, he'll probably come to Michigan, regardless of the basketball rebuilding.
Tressel is a good coach, but he hasn't had a poor-throwing QB in that offense. I think Rodriguez's system fits Pryor better than Tressel's, with the read options and the bubble screens. Pryor isn't a polished passer at all.
Ali Haji-Sheikh was always my favorite kicker
the sheikh! he was awesome.
My favotire kicker... You gotta love Ali Haji-Sheikh.
He closed out the scoring in the '81 win at the Rose Bowl over Washington. And he got the scoring going in the '81 Blue Bonet Bowl and it was a romp over UCLA from there!
:-)
1. Mike Gillette
2. JD Carlson
3. Hayden Epstein
pryor wants to play bball and football- tell me what school has coaches that are better friends and better able to make that happen and work.
"Tressel is a good coach, but he hasn't had a poor-throwing QB in that offense"
Mag, Troy Smith wasn't exactly a Heisman candidate early on in his career. He sucked at passing until Michigan in 05, really. It was really only his Senior year in which he lit it up.
My top three kickers have to be Mike Gillette, Remy Hamilton, and JD Carlson.
Why have we not had a dynamite, solid kicker since Hamilton graduated? Hopefully RichRod brings in a special teams coach that isn't prone to nervous breakdowns.
The one good thing Troy was good for was that he wouldn't turn it over very often.
Kickers
1. Mike Gillette: money money money.
2. Hayden Epstein: dude put his kickoffs in the endzone half the time and had fire a la Mike Hart
3. Remy Hamilton: like Gillette, Remy was money.
Quarterbacks
1. Tom Brady: liked him better than Henson, and I'm still bitter about him splitting time. The NFL has simply validated my bitterness.
2. Brian Griese: you can't win a national championship and not be on this list. Solid leader.
3. Chad Henne: consistent and stable all the way through his career, I wished his completion % would have improved over time.
Running Backs
1. Tyrone Wheatley: big, strong, fast. Inside, outside. 4th and 1, or an 80 yd burst. He could do it all.
2. Tshimanga Biakabatuka: a scatback for most of his career, he vastly improved his play between the tackles his senior year. That year, he was unbelievable in a losing effort against Sparty and of course he was "not THAT good" against OSU.
3. TIE- Anthony Thomas and Mike Hart: both were heavily depended on right from the start, as the offenses would nosedive when they were hurt (which happened a little too often, IMO). Both are at the top of the career rushing lists.
Wide Receivers
1. Anthony Carter: the dude put Michigan on the map in the '80s. Electric.
2. Marquise Walker: flame me if you want, but after Terrell and Henson left, Walker kept a still-raw Navarre from imploding. One of the most amazing catches I've ever seen (at Iowa, 2002?).
3. Braylon Edwards: similar to Walker, Braylon's glue-like hands kept a young Chad Henne from imploding. How many times did he snag a ball from a DB's hands?!?
I don't have any good recollections/knowledge of Michigan O-linemen over the years, but Everitt learning to snap with the other hand after breaking his dominant hand? Yeah, that puts him #1 in my book.
That's enough for me. Good night everyone...
pat moons was my favorite kicker- don't remember him? he was the first scholarship kicker bo ever had and i think he kicked like 3 times in his entire career
WVU fans on WVU boards and fanhouse are saying that RR threw the Pitt game so he could come and coach here.
lol.
Sounds rational as the buckeye boards. I just saw a tOSU-LSU prediction of 72-3. Buckeyes win because they're so damned FOCUSED. Oooooooooh...
OL should, in some way, incorporate some of the following:
Jansen, Hutchinson as OL. Book it.
jamie mac -
I need an Alzheimers check apparently.
Had thought G missed at ND one year but made a clutch kick against ND in another, plus the Iowa one.
Also unfortunate I neglected to mention Ali Haji-Sheikh. Another winner combined with an awesome brand name ;>)
So who do you guys think Michigan is going to hire for its next FB coach. I think this Less Mile guy is pretty good. Does anyone know if we have tried to contact him?
Er, that was my "anonymous" post above.
Love Chicago-- decent amount of us up here.
ThWard
Largest M alumni club anywhere.
Nice intercept, anonymous.
My previous post was in reference to the anonymous post referencing Alzheimers, in poor taste perhaps, as well as Ali Haji-Sheikh.
I now yield the anonymous handle to anonymous.
funny picture of new coach vs. old coach:
http://blog.mlive.com/
wolverines...riguez_carr.jpg
rrod is huge!
English has to go. RR's spread offense would never be stopped in practice!
Bob Ufer always had fun with Ali's name:
a-LEE
ha-GEE
SHAKE
anyone see what sparty is saying about RR ---The next John L Smith lmao
Ohio State says he's the next Cooper
Penn State says he's the next Tiller
Illinois says he's worse than Zook
FWIW
I must defend Garret Rivas's honor. He has the highest kicking percentage of any Michigan kicker with over ~10 attempts. He makes Brabbs/Neinberg/Finley and Wright/Lopata/Gingell look like the circus.
(I think. I looked this up a while ago and now I forget the exact details. Anyway, he was very good, historically. My fact checking is worthy of the New York Times...)
Henne,Hart,and Long will all be playing on Sundays,and Hart and Long both belong somewhere on 'best of' lists.
It's hard not to be influenced by Brady's success as a pro,so he has to be #1,followed by Harbaugh and then Griese.
My personal favorites at RB are Ron Johnson,Chris Perry,and a three way tie for third place between Hart,Anthony Thomas,and Rob Lytle.We haven't exactly been USC with running backs.
Tackles are Janson,Runyan,and Long/Dierdorf/Backus third.
Everybody at other schools are trying to down play the Rodriguez hire as us hiring some moron. They are saying the same things that I would have said about our hire if we had hired DeBord. But we didn't, we went out and hired one of the top 5 coaches in the country and they are going to shit bricks for 15 years because of it.
On to another topic: When are we going to start seeing what the uniforms are going to look like from Adidas. You'd think those would be coming out soon. It'll be interesting to see what the hockey uniforms especially look like.
I always like tony boles as a RB. the dude would break one every game it seemed. I remember when Illinois was good...1988 maybe. Ill was talking big time smack. Had a junk car with an effigy of bo in it and charged 10 bucks to hit it with a hammer.
anyways, Boles take the first hand off and goes 80 yard, incredible caught by a DB at the 1. scored the next play. shut the fans up like turning off a switch.
Tom Boles and Hoard. Unmatched 1-2 bunch.
I liked todd Collins as Mich QB. I thought he would do really well in the pro's. Had one chance in a hopeless situation 10 years ago and doesn't yet another chance until 10 years later.
Life is like that. Opportunities. Brady got one (he would probably not get another one) and turns into the best QB in the NFL. Collins has to wait 10 years to get a chance.
Look for Collins to be NFL starter next year
English brought in Richards & Sears. Unless he's critical to keeping Boo-boo, it's bye-bye.
AH, SO THE HISPANIC RICHMOND RODRIGUEZ GOT THE JOB, EH?
THIS IS SO MICHIGAN. THEY CAN FIGHT FOR AFFIRMATIVE IN THE COURT, BUT THEY WILL NOT HIRE A BLACK COACH.
WHAT DO THEY DO INSTEAD? THEY HIRE THE HISPANIC RICHMOND.
DISGUSTING.
Max Hubris
FWIW, I thought Todd Collins was a better QB than Grbac or Harbaugh. He's somewhere in the Top 5 of Michigan QBs, IMO...
@ kgh10
Smith didn't light it up until his senior year, but in his junior year, I think he had 600 yards rushing and 2,300 yards passing or something like that. Not too bad...
@ max hubris
What makes you think Todd Collins will be a starter next year? His career backup status (except for a few games here or there) or his 8-25 performance (or something like that) this past Sunday?
There's no way Collins starts next year in the NFL, unless it's with the Lions, and they don't really count.
It's really worth a few minutes of your time to watch RichRod's presser video on Mlive.com.
The man is SOLID.
Last time I looked affirmative action was for the benefit of all minorities, not just African Americans. All caps = ignorant anger.
Are you just trying to ruin Barack Obama's name or what?
It's not working. He's not nearly as ignorant as you.
I must defend Garret Rivas's honor . . .
MRG
What, Garret was caught back thar yonder on Brokeback Mountain 'gain? Ain' no defendin' him now.
It's really worth a few minutes of your time to watch RichRod's presser video on Mlive.com.
The man is SOLID.
Grew Up in A2
As opposed to a liquid or gaseous state. Good to know.
If we are going to bring up the Lions, who is going to start for them next year? I think Kitna has obviously taken them as far as they are ever going to go with him at the helm. Do they draft a QB this year? Stick with the Orlovsky/Stanton ascension plan. I honestly don't see a viable option here.
Hutchinson was on the All-Big Ten team all four years, I think. He belongs on any list of Michigan linemen.
Musket,
I dont really follow the Lions, but if they are relying on a Orlovsky-Stanton ascension plan, then there problems are going to continue...lol.
I think we all know the action the Lions need: Fire Millen. Start over.
Surprisingly, the road to the top is not long, but you need better people running the show and making key decisions.
I don't think the Lions will draft a QB this year if the coaches are back. Stanton was ALMOST a first rounder, so they obviously believe in him.
I think Kitna, Stanton, and Orlovsky will be back next year, but either Stanton or Orlovsky will start. There's no good reason to do otherwise.
AuntBnOpie: LOL
Seriously, after watching RichRod's presser, I'm envisioning a 1990s FSU-type run starting in a year or two.
Well we have another dog game on for MNF and unlike the last few weeks I dont have an active message board here for me to kill time on....sounds like everyone is taking a long overdue break after the coaching roller coaster.
I did take the Bears w/ the points tonight, so thats keeping me occupied....but UM talk tonight....what a departure from recent days......only two weeks until the bowl game! Dont know what to say about Bball. Ugly.
I enjoyed watching Chris Floyd (#7) carry the ball. Ka-BOOM.
surprisingly no scathing article (if you can his writing that..) from drew sharp. Can't wait to see how it twists this hire around.
@OBAMA
Shut up. You're kind of trash is not welcome on this blog.
Hutchinson is as good as any lineman whose ever played at Michigan,but he played guard,not tackle.
AH, SO THE HISPANIC RICHMOND RODRIGUEZ GOT THE JOB, EH?
THIS IS SO MICHIGAN. THEY CAN FIGHT FOR AFFIRMATIVE IN THE COURT, BUT THEY WILL NOT HIRE A BLACK COACH.
WHAT DO THEY DO INSTEAD? THEY HIRE THE HISPANIC RICHMOND.
DISGUSTING.
OBAMA | 12.17.07 - 9:07 pm | #
I'm sorry...but I laughed out loud when I read this. It could not possibly make any less sense.
I take comfort in this somehow, that the passion and tradition are far from out of the new staff's minds:
West Virginia's defensive backs coach and recruiting coordinator Tony Gibson is certainly pleased with the end result. He's committed to join Rodriguez in Ann Arbor and he already sounds like a local.
Gibson hummed "The Victors," as he took a tour of Michigan Stadium's locker room with Rodriguez and his wide-eyed contingent from Morgantown.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/
ne...e=ESPNHeadlines
Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but damn, it's just nice to be really excited about the future of the program.
Don, i'm no expert, but i don't buy that arguement valenti was spewing today. you can play good D indep of what your offense does. see Virginia, West, Oregon, Univ of. good personnel w/ proper technique who are put in a position to make the right play will lead to good D.
his arguement is empirical, but i don't think there's a direct cause-effect there.
I'll have to g/ w/ Remy Hamilton since we are talking kickers. I met him when my uncle was a high school scout in South Florida and recommended him to UM. He was really cool and now my daughter is named Remi. It spelled differently but I had to give in somehwere for my wife to allow it.
As far as RB's, I really enjoyed Jamie Morris, and Perry was a guy I liked along w/ Hart.
I really wanna buy a new Adidas jersey when they come out. I wonder if the #1 tradition will continue? That's the # i'd like to purchase, unless we get TP, then I'm getting his.
4. Remy Hamilton
3. Garrett Rivas
2. Hayson Epstein
1. Ali Haji Sheeeeeeeeeek!
With the S&C talk, what happens if Zoltan punts and the ball explodes?
Fave RB: Anthony Thomas
Fave QB: Ricky Leach
Fave WR: Anthony Carter
Fave K: Remy Hamilton
Fave OL: Jake Long
Fave DL: Glenn Steele
Fave CB: Charles Woodson
Fave S: Thom Darden
Fave LB: Victor Hobson
Fave KR: Desmond Howard
Fave TE: Jerame Tuman
Forgot one:
Fave P: Zoltan Mesko
"his arguement is empirical, but i don't think there's a direct cause-effect there."
Yup. Seems to me if you recruit athletic guys with appropriate size and mentality, put them in the right positions in game situations, and actually train them in a 21st-century S&C program, I can't see why you couldn't have a completely ball-busting defense.
But what the hell do I know... I said several times here that RR would never, ever come here since his roots are too deep in West Virginia. D'oh!
Best players in the Lloyd Carr era:
10. Marlin Jackson
9. Glen Steele
8. Anthony Thomas
7. Jake Long
6. Victor Hobson
5. Mike Hart - Definitely the best quote in the Carr era. Tough little guy who never fumbled.
4. Steve Hutchinson - Two-time captain and one of the smartest players to have worn the Michigan uniform.
3. Jon Jansen - Best leader in the Carr era, the heart of the 97 team.
2. Braylon Edwards - Best athlete under Carr. He single-handedly won games as a senior.
1. Charles Woodson - To this day, the soul of what Michigan stands for.
Fave OL: Ruben Riley
Fave DL: Pat Massey
Fave CB: Markus Curry
Fave S: Ryan Mundy
Fave LB: Chris Graham
Fave TE:Tyler Ecker
Favorite players to burn their voodoo dolls in effigy while smashing your television with a sledgehammer, anon?
Zack,
I think Stonum will be wearing the 1.
per Bob Hunter, columnist of the Columbus Dispatch:
"The death of the Michigan Man should be the death of all that phony Michigan-isn't-all-about-winning blather."
Fav player as a kid: Anthony Carter.
Fav broadcast announcer of all time: Bob "Meeechign" Ufer.
God bless their souls!
Henne the key to florida win,if he's on and keeps florida offense off the field we win,if he's not the defense tires and we lose.
Since this thread is lame, here's a theory for you: this represents a serious challenge for RRod to evolve. Starting with no talent (Glenville State) and slowly inching his way up to modest talent (from Tulane to WVU), he has developed schemes that fit the situation.
Now, he has arrived at the Big Time. If he tries to simply install his existing systems, he will probably fail. Using a spread option and 3-3-5 defense in the Big 10 will probably get you beat in November.
RRod has a new toy - massive NFL style talent that only comes to about 12 teams. Like a master carpenter who has been working with cheap wood his whole career, he has to rethink how to use the fine mahagony and teak woods at his disposal now.
If he adapts, he has a chance to be one of the all time greats. What is adapting? A New England style spread with a power sets for the bad weather? A defense with four down lineman, but leans to nickel? Whatever he does, it needs to be different that what WVU did, in some ways. The talent is better, the league is stronger.
I think he is up to the task.
Agreed Meeechigan Dan, agreed
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