As if Harbaugh cheering for Duke against the Fab Five wasn't enough for official excommunication, this should seal the deal once and for all. He is a disloyal moron basing statements on nothing but complete guesswork for no apparent reason whatsoever. He needs to shut his yapper and worry about scraping together 4 wins this year. I would cross him off the list as a potential successor, regardless of the timeframe and regardless of his level of success at Stanford.
Anyone care to guess the score of the USC - Stanford game on October 6th? Home game for the Trojans, they'll probably even interview Snoop Dogg about Harbaugh's comments before the game.
The only place this probably doesn't happen at among the BCS schools is Stanford.
It happens at tOSU, Michigan, and everywhere else. At least student-athletes at Big 10 schools have to go to school. I'm not so sure the same can be said about the SEC.
Now, if someone can tell me how Stanford gets the best student-athletes year-after-year with a mascot called the "Cardinal," I've love to know. Granted, they suck in football nine out of ten years but they seem to excel everywhere else.
Harbaugh just can't be a candidate after one year at Stanford
Thus moving Michigan one step closer to hiring Les Miles. That imbecile in a big white Block M hat might be an even more appealing thought that Scarlet's bacon lingerie.
an even more appealing thought than Scarlet's bacon lingerie.
Stupid fat fingers. Where's my dialing/typing wand?
Brian, get ready for more weird google search hits because of the phrase "Scarlett Johannson bacon lingerie."
if someone can tell me how Stanford gets the best student-athletes year-after-year with a mascot called the "Cardinal," I've love to know.
i haven't, but if you've been to Stanfords campus, you'd know. it's paradise from what i hear.
Yeah, I don't care if it's true, I don't care why he said it, I don't care what he's done in the past, and I understand that he is recruiting and this is probably nothing more than a ploy to get attention drawn to Stanford. None of that matters. Say all you want about your alma mater in private, but you do not bash your school in the press. It would be different if he was saying "they can't win the big one...in my day, we beat tOSU...etc," but this was nothing more than a cheap shot. Screw 'em...I'll give up my season tickets if he ever gets hired.
And no, Harbaugh is not a candidate to take over Carr's job. But, whoever takes over Carr's job will only be there a couple years, unless he wins a MNC. Let's face it, you don't follow a legend and expect to stay long (and yes, love him or hate him, Carr is a legend). [Name Redacted] couldn't do it, Moeller couldn't do it, Solich couldn't do it, etc.
He's making good soundbites, good for him and, the fact is, he isn't really saying anything untrue. Stanford is paying him to coach and I believe that he wants to make the point that he is, for the time being, committed to Stanford. And that required knocking his Alma Mater as a measure of reassurance to his employer, et al.
My only question is doesn't Stanford - in this world gone made - do the same thing to some degree?
Thanks to Brian (and the commenters) who recognize the obvious - Harbaugh isn't going to be Lloyd's replacement because the timing won't work out. Although common sense, this needs to be repeated because media types insist on naming Harbaugh as a potential replacement. It's annoying to me that they can't see that it won't happen.
What the media types DON'T talk about enough is how perfect Les Miles would be as successor. Why doesn't this receive more attention. Why isn't he the leader in the clubhouse to replace Lloyd when he retires? Is there a reason that I shouldn't think this is a good idea?
Back when Harbaugh got the job in December, I noted the following from his Presser...
"I dedicate my life's work to building the foundation here at Stanford, the foundation that will lead to great success, continue the tradition and restore the legacy that Stanford has in college football. I vow that I will attack this endeavor with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind."
He went on to say he expects to be there 10, 15, 20 years, whatever it takes to rebuild the Cardinal to their legacy standards.
Two things strike me: 1). He wants Stanford fan to buy into the idea that he is there for the long haul.
2). The man is an excitable quote.
I have seen ND fans raise this issue on other boards, which I find a bit curious. If a domer is really saying, "Michigan is better than us only because Michigan has 'football majors' and admits kids that Notre Dame wouldn't touch," they are also saying, "Notre Dame Football sucks," even if it is stated with a caveat as to why it sucks. Plus, if you look at the top recruits in the Midwest, Notre Dame and Michigan are pursuing several of the same kids.
Jim Harbaugh Rules plain and simple.
it's no big deal what he said, captain comeback speaks the truth.
its not like harbaugh is trashing on mich and praising osu or anything,
and who cares what notre dame fans think, they are idiots, i'm sure harbaugh will vouch for that.
Guaranteeing victory in THE GAME and delivering. Going 2-0 against the friggin’ Domers. Captain Comeback has earned the right to say whatever the f*&k he wants to.
Hmm, there is no such thing as "sports communications" at Michigan. So that kind of shoots down his argument a bit.
There is a sport management program, which I attended as a non-athlete. I consider myself to be much smarter than a football player (let me reiterate: MUCH SMARTER), and I wasn't flying through there with a 4.0. Soooo, take what you will from that. I don't think it's a blowoff major at all.
LMAO.....Called out by an insider..This is the equivalent of George Tenet calling out Bush and Cheney...Nice!!!!!
Harbaugh speaks the truth but that doesn't change the fact that the truth hurts...particularly when publicly pointed out by one of our own.
We find ourselves in a very unique position few, if any, other Div 1A schools, find themselves in - being superior academically while having a top notch football team. We point out to our football peers (OSU, etc.) why we're better than them (we're as good as you in football and we're smart) and we also point out to our academic peers why we're superior to them (we're as smart as you and we have a kickass football team to root on).
But we are an insecure bunch. We are insecure because more of the country identifies with football over academics and is more likely to think of us as a great football playing school than as a great academic school. There's no shame in that. Those same people identifying us in football terms aren't likely to know any Ivy League schools outside of Harvard, Yale, and maybe Princeton. But because 99% of us go to Michigan for the academics, it pains us when Harbaugh points out things that seem to paint Michigan as more football oriented than academically oriented. Because we go for the academics and live and compete in a world where football success is irrelevant to our own career success, we worry that statements like Harbaugh's will reduce the value and prestige of our degree.
Ironically, Notre Dame is in a similar situation. And their insecurity, which surpasses ours, explains their giddiness over Harbaugh's statement. Like us, most of the country is more likely to recognize Notre Dame for their football prowess than their academic prowess. Yet, among those who recognize universities for their academic accomplishments, there is no doubt Michigan is superior to Notre Dame (despite Notre Dame undergrad being more difficult to get into). And so, because Notre Dame is recognized as inferior to Michigan by those who know football and by those who know academics, they take special joy when we are made to look bad where the two worlds meet.
While Harbaugh's statements are true and they hurt, we shouldn't care so much. Outside of the football blogging fantasy world we all are a part of, they are of no consequence.
I don't want to put words into Anonymous' mouth, but it seems like he is also saying that Notre Dame Football sucks.
Michigan Fan, the words you didn't want to put in my mouth are accurate. Notre Dame Football sucks.
I'd have to agree that Harbaugh can say whatever he wants. Not only was he 4-0 against tOSU and ND but he quarterbacked one of the five greatest Michigan teams (1985) in the past half century (1985, 1980, 1976, 1964, and 1997). His 1986 crew wasn't too shabby either.
As for those who majored in SMC, well, I don't want to take the luster off anyone's degree but you could clearly enroll in that program and coast if you took the right classes. Anybody hear of Ojibwa? Yes, the famous athlete class where all you had to do is show up to get an A. Many of my team mates took that class...multiple times.
Finally, can someone please tell me what is so great about Wes Miles? Yes, he is 11-2 at LSU the past two years...with Nick Saban's recruits. But I seem to remember his Okie St. team getting waxed by a Troy Smithless Ohio State 33-7 a few years ago in the Alamo Bowl. And spare me the "you can't win at Okie St." That school has T. Boone Pickens bankrolling it. I'm pretty sure that T. Boone lives by the booster motto of "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin."
There's no talk about Les Miles because he's average, and maybe even below average as a coach. He's got a great supporting coaching staff, great recruiting hot-bed, and a fresh football program name established by Saban. Sure, he's gotten a lot of great recruiting classes thus far and has won a lot of games, but face it...Michigan isn't Louisiana in regards to recruiting or climate and frankly I don't think Miles is cut out for Michigan. LSU fans (who LOVE their football team) don't even like the guy...why should we? I have numerous other reasons for opposition of Les Miles for the Michigan coaching position, and I'm sure most of us have heard them all. He's nothing special.
Lloyd Carr a legend? No...just no.
Les Miles the perfect successor? No...just no.
I suspect Miles is at or near the top of the list, but that doesn't mean too much to me. Mike DeBord is also on that list and probably pretty high as well and that's a guy that zero other schools in the country would even interview.
Michigan's program is very stale and needs new blood. Miles is anything but and would likely continue the "legend's" recent trend of losing to Ohio State more often than not.
Son of Jorel,
Stop. Just stop.
Remember Maurice Clarett's full confession to ESPN?
Remember when he detailed receiving construction site cash for "watching paint dry?"
Thhe quick money from Boosters for "playing Sega with their kids" and free access to tricked out SUVS - all under the watchful eye of Coach Jim Tressel?
"I thought he'd give me the NFL," he said. "I thought he'd say, 'You took from me and you didn't tell on me, so here's the NFL.'"
But hey, OSU revisionist history laws say you can either forget about the past or recreate someone as a malcontent in order to protect that cash cow.
"My only question is doesn't Stanford - in this world gone made - do the same thing to some degree?"
As a matter of fact, no. The distance between Stanford's regular students and football players may be the smallest in college football.
There are some guys on the team who wouldn't be admitted without football, but there are very few of the half-illiterate meathead types.
Stanford does seem to be loosening its academic standards slightly, but without question Stanford gives fewer breaks to its players than anybody.
Even the Domers (especially the Domers.) ND had a lineman come in wiht a 950 on the old SAT. That kid would have been laughed out of the Stanford recruiting pool faster than you can say Elway.
"I suspect Miles is at or near the top of the list, but that doesn't mean too much to me. Mike DeBord is also on that list and probably pretty high as well and that's a guy that zero other schools in the country would even interview."
That may be true about DeBord, but it's also irrelevant. When Michigan has to replace Carr, they won't be asking "who is the most desirable head coach in the USA," they'll be asking "who is the best coach for Michigan." DeBord will be on that list even though he stunk at Central.
Miles will be too, to some degree, but it'd cost mad $$ and he's got lots of issues (starting with the number of huge comebacks against him.) Other names looked at will be English and Harbaugh, obviously. Don't rule out the un-connected candidate - like Rich Rodriguez, who's got my money on him.
I, for one, disagree with a few sentiments here. If Harbaugh really brings respectability to Stanford program, he would definitely be a great prospective Head Coach hire!
I graduated from Michigan only few years ago so that probably biases my thinking towards hiring a young blood, but let's face it.
* Harbaugh would be a great icon and a face for the Michigan football - just like Urban is for Florida / Carroll for USC.
* Do you have confidence that a Lloyd Carr coached team can beat Florida or the USC? Right now? Please be honest.
We win against above average teams because of our talent. We lose against equally talented teams because of our coaching and philosophy.
* Jim calls spade a spade. Except that he could've made it more diplomatic. But he's young and I'm willing to cut him some slack.
* The flowery articles about how his players were motivated in San Diego even though many of them didn't have scholarships and his ESPN interview makes me think he'd be a great fit for Michigan.
* Carr is a great coach. Make no mistake about that. But frankly he's aging and conservatism is taking the best of him when Floridas and USCs and OSUs are separating themselves from the pile.
- "What happens at Fort Schembechler stays at Fort Schembechler".. I mean why. Last checked, it doesn't really give any strategic advantage to Michigan.
- Playing not to lose. Go to a TD lead and put pressure on D.
- Loyalty. Mike DeBord is overrated.
* Finally, Son of Jorels of this world, who live in their moms basement and throng the libraries in Columbus to pleasure themselves think that they have an innate right to troll Michigan blogs just because they have beaten us in the last 3 years. Good should prevail over the evil. ;-)
Topher,
While I don't doubt that Stanford has probably the smartest group of football players, doesn't it seem more likely that because of the extremely high academic standards for all its students, the smart Stanford players would be equally inferior if not more so than players at other schools?
I'm old but if I remember correctly from when I was applying to colleges the Stanford avg SAT was probably around 1450. I think the SAT mean was around 1000. Let's say the average D-1A school was at or around that mean of 1000. Two hundred points below that, where I imagine many football players reside, would've been 800. Two hundred points below at Stanford would've been 1250, which I imagine was probably around the average SAT of a lot of really good schools (e.g. Michigan, Notre Dame, U of Chicago, Wash U, Vandy, UVA type schools). I realize my numbers are based on foggy recollections and my math isn't precise, but you're saying that Stanford football players (Elway, Ed McCaffrey, Tommy Vardell, Glynn Milburn, Trent Edwards, etc.) were in the upwards of 1250 on the old SAT? Not challenging you...just saying that is really impressive.
I think that people who think that Harbaugh should be the next head coach, or at least in the running, should reserve judgement until they actually see a Stanford game. He is a name and ISU was looking at him before Stanford, but unless you are a college football megageek who actually watched USD games, maybe should wait on opinions until you actually see what offense or defense he runs or what he does situationally rather than promoting his name because you don't want DeBord (who I don't want either, but unlike most, I don't expect him to get it).
I don' think that Harbaugh was throwing Michigan under the bus but rather to illustrate a point about admissions, basically that even great academic insitutions in college football use students to produce great football teams and give them in return a worthless degree. To some extent, he is right. However, I don't think that he is using that because he is a career academic worried about the state of college football but rather using it as an excuse that "he ain't gettin' the players that USC, UCLA, or Cal." It's a built-in excuse that if he doesn't succeed, its because of the limitations on players and if he does win, it shows his coaching prowless.
Domers latch to this statement because that sentiment in ingrained into the ND psyche.
I would have prefered that he used Cal in this case (would have made that added fuel to that rivally) but he probably used Michigan because he went there and therefore would seem to have more authority on the subject matter.
Regardless, all this is good for is message boards and blogs, no more.
That SOB!!! I'm coming back and kicking his ungrateful ass! And then we're scheduling Stanford and kicking his ass again!
Aaron G. You put it nicely. I started with this assumption "If Harbaugh really brings respectability to Stanford program, he would definitely be a great prospective Head Coach hire! "
This might be a longshot. If Stanford does well next 2 years, why not Jim Harbaugh.. I mean, think about hiring Lane Kiffin, Tomlin, Mangenius by NFL GMs.
What Michigan has from current coaching staff is insistence on strong character. ( I hear you about a few aberrations this offseason). I want innovation in offense based on the talent we have and the ability to adjust depending on how the game is progressing - which we never do.
/ranting... :-)
Is everybody comfortable with Harbaugh cheering against the Fab Five vs. Duke b/c he was dating Coach K's daughter? Unless that is something of urban legend, that is off-the-reservation unacceptable and actually offends me more than his comments about academics. Whether he beat OSU or not is irrelevant...that doesn't earn him any points with me in terms of canceling out that level of disloyalty. He is excommunicated in my book.
Brent.. I am sure that incident, if it's true, is an exception than a rule.
Take a look here:
http://apps.michigandaily.com/bl.../?
p=623#respond
Especially this piece:
"At the Rose Bowl’s pep rally, he showed up wearing Maize and Blue (after already having taken the Stanford job) and told fans that Michigan would dominate his future conference foe Southern Cal."
I mean.. I am not rooting for Harbaugh entirely. But given the crop of candidates when Carr retires, he might be a good choice. I'll watch all the Stanford games enthusiastically this season and soundbytes of Harbaugh.
Pure academics, Stanford is a shade ahead of us. Pure football, frankly on current form they should be in I AA, and even historically they are nothing, so no argument here. Jimmy boy is not afraid to ruffle some feathers... good for him, but thats about it.
Domers....well do we even need to care about what they think, oh wait can they even think??!!
A few points...
-Michigan didn't get me hired and I wasn't a scholarship athlete. The degree got me hired, yes, but their career services are worthless for everyone.
-Stanford falls into the small group of schools with Northwestern where they actually do hold their athletes to higher standards. Sometimes their fans whine that that gives them a disadvantage to, say, Oregon State and Minnesota, etc. I disagree - those academic standards won't allow you to compete with the USCs and Michigans and Floridas in the long run, but it makes you a magnet for the athletes that are exceptional students that wouldn't go to a Minnesota/Oreg. State. In short, Northwestern's got better recruiting position given their academics than if they were a second Illinois state school with average academics/standards.
-tons of schools produce tons of students who are worthless after graduation. They aren't necessarily athletes. This happens at good schools and bad.
I think that 2:24 is dead on. I'm steeling myself for a Bob Davie/Ty Willingham era of disappointment and fan antagonism. Grumble about Lloyd or (as, I guess, I do) venerate him, we all know what to expect and understand how he'll run the program. His successor's every slip-up is going to be overmagnified and overscrutinized. If he's an outsider, half of us will be up in arms that he doesn't appreciate Michigan tradition; if he's an insider, the other half will relentlessly complain about conservatism.
It'll be like, you know, the political chaos in China after Mao died -- anger and instability, and then Deng Xiaoping stepped up and modernized. (Taking Ken Lieberthal's class 10 years ago is good for something.) The immediate post-Lloyd aftermath will be similar, but with fewer peasants.
Anonymous - I can't give you a statistical abstract, but I do know that last year a couple of recruits with 3.5 GPA/1150 SATs were rejected by Stanford admissions, or in one case told to "take the SAT again" which was code for it ain't happening with those #'s.
Also the cream gets thicker near the top - a 1250 in a sea of 1450's is a lot different than the blind leading the blind with 800's and 1000's (relatively speaking.)
We're really debating how much bring-up-the-rear space there is. I bet the top 5000 students at Stanford and UM are pretty indistinguishable, but Stanford is smaller and can't afford to have as many academic loafs as a school of UM's size - it would bring the numbers down. These people bend over backwards for those US News rankings.
Why you gotta go and do that????
Harbaugh made the statement so go get mad at him. Did you really think you were holier than thou when it came to academics????? As per Keith at Buckeye Commentary, don't you find it odd that Notre Dame doesn't list the majors of any of its players on the official website?????????
blue2004 freaking nailed it when he said that U of M's career services blow across the board. It was a major sore point for me for quite a while before I got so angry about it I decided to f them and do it myself.
I now return you to your debate on academics.
Harbaugh was undefeated against osu and until another mich qb can go undefeated against the bucks (or let alone beat them once) he has my utmost respect.
furthermore i've seen (in person) jim harbaugh drop back in the pocket and then scramble and it was a thing of beauty.
until harbaugh says "muck fichigan, michigan sucks, screw the blue," or sings carmen ohio, he gets the benefit of the doubt in my book.
On a lighter note -- If Scarlett Johannson is wearing bacon lingerie, is it crispy or chewy?
"Did you really think you were holier than thou when it came to academics?????"
Holier than OSU.
Nice posting, Brian. It was a frank and honest assessment and it has produced an interesting comment thread. (For what it's worth, as a Georgia fan, I hope Les Miles isn't Lloyd Carr's successor, because I'd like to keep him at L.S.U.)
I have a question, which is not intended to be snide, sarcastic, or disrespectful; I genuinely am interested in the answer.
I am sure you will recall that Jim Delany issued a written public statement regarding what he contended were differences in recruiting philosophies and standards between the Big Ten and the S.E.C. More specifically, Mr. Delany contended that winning the Big Ten way required passing on "speed" when it failed to measure up academically.
At the time, you gave your support to Mr. Delany's remarks. (The discussion initially centered on recruiting class size, which is ancillary to the question of admitting any athlete who meets the minimum standard, but I understood you to endorse Mr. Delany's overall point concerning what he characterized as winning the Big Ten way.)
Now, you are stating that "Michigan does get anyone who meets NCAA minimums admitted" and defending that practice on perfectly reasonable grounds with which I agree and which I believe every serious Division I-A program employs. You made specific reference to African-American athletes from poor areas with weak school systems . . . young men who, in the euphemisms of sports, would appear to qualify as the sorts of athletes to whom Mr. Delany referred.
My question is, "How do you reconcile these positions?" Once again, I am not attempting to call you out or address you disrespectfully; I know you have given thought to both positions and I am sure there is an explanation, but I am uncertain what it is and I am curious to hear it.
I thank you in advance for responding in the spirit in which my question was intended. Like a good sports talk radio caller, I will hang up and listen to your reply.
Harbaugh looked far too excited (and in maize and blue) at the Rose Bowl pep rally this past December to have given up on the alma mater. The guy had a monster smile on his face the entire time he was there, onstage and off. Couldn't miss it.
I also love how that quote that he would bring Stanford back to prominence "with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind" was the same quote he yelled at his team on Sportscenter All-Access this morning. Frankly, if I'm a player and I hear my coach extolling me to use an "enthusiasm unknown to mankind," I'm laughing. He came off looking very amateurish in the practice footage.
Similar to Mr. King, this is offered primarily to foster discussion, not to flame. I don't want to get into a pissing match about which school is better, but to state that 'those who know academics' consider UM categorically better than ND is a joke. I would figure that most people in academia would rate an ND undergraduate degree better than the corresponding Michigan degree in most (not all) fields, but that the reverse would be true when speaking about grad schools--where Michigan has the clear edge. But 95% of the football players on the two teams are still in undergrad, so lets just call academics a wash and move on.
The one thing that troubles me about Brian's post and the comments is that almost no one has taken exception to the comment that Michigan is doing 'its best'. While on the one hand, Michigan is to be commended for not just rubber-stamping degrees, on the other the graduation rates (particularly when looking at the rate for black players) hardly seem as they should be satisfactory for critical alumni (not Harbaugh types, but those who really care about the reputation of the school). Maybe that is just my 'cult' mindset doing the talking, but I see significant room for improvement at UM, and hope they do. I might root against your players on the field, but hope the best for them off of it.
Also, there is no denying that UM football players are directed into certain, supposedly easier, majors. (35 upperclassmen in General Studies, 7 in Sports Management, and 20 in all other majors combined.) From anecdotal evidence, it seems General Studies at UM is a 'create-your-own-major' program that could be either a wonderful tool for a broad education or rife for abuse by simply creating a 'major' of only easy courses. It is open to argument whether graduating a player with such a degree, even from a great school like UM, will serve them well in the long run.
For those who note that ND does not post their athletes' majors online, here is the upperclass info; we've got nothing to hide. Sorry if the tabular format does not hold up upon posting. P is primary major, and S is secondary major.
Subject P S
Accounting 4 0
Am.Studies 1 0
Art/Design 2 0
Finance 7 1
FTT 5 1
History 4 1
ALPP 0 1
Management 3 0
Marketing 8 0
CAPS 0 7
PoliSci 2 0
Psych 1 1
SCPP 1 0
Sociology 4 1
Spanish 0 1
Total: 42,14 (that is, 14 of our 42 upperclassmen had double majors).
CAPS is computer applications. SCPP and ALPP are pre-med (ALPP is easier). FTT is film, television, and theater. The rest should be self-explanatory. American Studies is the only 'joke' major on the list (similar to your general studies), although one can definitely coast through FTT if they want.
FWIW: Michigan and Florida were the only two Top 10 teams to also be in the Top 10 in graduation rate. However, Michigan's 71% graduation rate cuts down the middle of a horrible gap between white players (91%) and black players (50%).
You can completely forget any notion of UM even calling Harbaugh for an interview when Carr retires. He's taken a very public swipe, justified or not, at the one thing UM takes even more seriously than its athletics: the integrity of its academic mission. It was also an indirect but obvious slap at his own football coach; Bo made a big deal about the academic side of his player's lives at UM.
This wasn't the first time that Harbaugh poked Michigan in the eye since being hired by Stanford.
Remember all those stories Harbaugh told over the years about being a little kid running around the practice field and stadium, dreaming of playing for the team when he got older?
Apparently, that was all bullshit:
"I used to stare down at the field when I was stenciling those numbers. I so very badly wanted to go to Stanford and play for the Cardinal," Harbaugh said Tuesday. "That wasn't meant to be. I never played a football game at Stanford. But it's a great honor and privilege to be back here now. This was my number one choice all along."
Nobody publicly bashes his alma mater, smears his now-departed legendary coach, and says he really wanted to go somewhere else if he has any intention of coaching where he played.
If he really does harbor such intentions, then he makes Dick Cheney's PR skills look JFK-esque by comparison.
"But to state that 'those who know academics' consider UM categorically better than ND is a joke."
In the latest US News undergrad rankings, Michigan's Peer Assessment Score, which is a measure of how academics rate the quality of a university's undergrad academic programs, was a 4.5 out of 5.0, ranking Michigan 12th overall in this category. I'm not sure where Notre Dame ranks, but they are not in the Top 20 (based on the provided link).
http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/s...cfm?
nav01=17118
The notion that Michigan undergrad is better than Notre Dame undergrad is debatable. But I take exception with the idea that it's a joke that Michigan undergrad is considered better than Notre Dame undergrad. The most influential (albeit admittedly flawed) survey of academics (i.e. people who know academics) says differently.
I apologize for my contribution to the pissing match and I'm not trying to debate who's better. I'm just pointing out that it's not unreasonable to say Michigan is better.
Can't wait to remember these words when the bi**hing about Ohio State begins...
Stanford and Northwestern may hold athletes to highers standards than Michigan, but let's not pretend they don't make huge adjustments in their standards for jocks.
A few years ago (back with the SAT was two parts) the average score at NW for the football team was 1050. For a non-athlete there'd be no change of getting in with that score.
Great posts. I like Jim Harbaugh & the UM. But I love ND.
PT-
I think you almost got my point, and that we pretty much agree. As mentioned in the part of my comment you quote, I was simply saying that the original commenter's implication that UM is __categorically__ better than ND is a joke--not that any contention of UM superiority is to be laughed at by ND grads/fans. I personally think both are fine schools, and my friends who are UM grads would say the same. Basically, to say which is 'better' or 'more respected by academia' is just splitting hairs, with the only data points being a single category in an overall-silly survey like US News or anecdotal stories like the admit rate for ND students to med schools.
I'll never forget ol' Jim at Dooley's one night. Made Saturday Night Fever Travolta look like an amateur.
Lmao....None of this b.s. matters. In the end its all about performance and who you know. You guys kill me with the U.S. News rankings. Fucking George Bush went to Yale and got a MBA from Harvard and a serial killer got accepted into VA Tech which is also a fine school.
George Bush went to Yale and got a MBA from Harvard and a serial killer got accepted into VA Tech which is also a fine school.
and you got into ohio st, which is NOT a fine school....
There is nothing more comical than the tOSU fans down here in Columbus who actually think Ohio State is a better academic school than Michigan. Like most everything else in life, they are clueless.
Michigan undoubtly provides cushy classes and majors for many of its athletes like every school in the BCS (absent Stanford) does. However, comparing UM to tOSU academically on a general level is a JOKE. There is no comparison. Michigan wins...hands down. Any Ohio State grad who can't accept that is, well, an Ohio State grad. And I say that as both a graduate of Michigan and tOSU.
As for Captain Comeback, could Jim Harbaugh be on his way to becoming the the Steve Alford of college football? Big mouth. Success at a small school makes him a hot commodity. Failure at a big school exiles him to New Mexico.
SOJ, you're slipping. The Unabomber went to UM. Why play pattycake with VATech when you've got your favorite whipping boy right in your sites? It shows a shocking lack of dedication.
Stanford hired a guy who used the term "adulated." Is that even a word? Be careful where you throw those stones, Mr. Glass-House-Resident.
Trgovac or English depending on how he does with this young defense. Harbaugh and Miles are not even on the long list.
Touche about defending Harbaugh. He clearly has a "my shit don't stink" attitude now.
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