KIRK FERENTZ!!!!!!!!
I'm all that with Tedford. Class. Skills. Smarts. Ethics. Results.
Pleez, pleez, pleez.
Any and all conversations about the next coach has to start w/ AnyoneButDebord.
would ferentz really make a move like that? he would be slapping iowa people in the face, rick james style. that would really set up a rivalry with iowa on the level of PSU, imo. plus, what the heck happened to iowa the last 2 years?...underacheivement due to ________ (fill in the blank please).
tedford at Cal is a good name, but at this stage i don't know much about him yet. it's probably not fair to ask for a coaching review a la the basketball hire in the spring.
who are the realistic possibilities? let's see:
tedford,trgovac and who?
cam cameron, RE, and MDB, and miles are loooong shots, imo.
perhaps the real question is how much power does carr have relative to martin? i would guess that Carr has veto power, but not much more. LC can push MDB all he wants publicly, but martin will go for the best coach available. and if LCs answer (in private) to the question "who is the best available coach in the nation?" is MDB...well i just can't believe that.
I think it's difficult to speculate who will get the job without knowing what the fate of the assistants and coordinators will be. Will the new HC have total control over who is on his staff? Will Martin request or order that people stay?
Here's a name that I haven't seen - Jon Tenuta from GT. He's a great DC and basically kept GT in games last year with Reggie Ball at QB.
Of course, hiring him might lead English to leave.
Anyway, I'd like to hear what other people think.
Brian,
Thank you for making the argument which concerned me most, that Miles prime asset is a willingness to be sketch to win the day.
Besides, do we really want a guy for whom the completely made up rant about 11 year old neighbor Hayley Lafontaine seemed entirely plausible to the MSM?
Dan... while I can understand, and maybe even agree with, your comment of:
"and if LCs answer (in private) to the question "who is the best available coach in the nation?" is MDB...well i just can't believe that."
I can TOTALLY see Lloyd lobbying that "MDB deserves a chance/shot"...
If MDB or Les Miles get the coaching position, I'd seriously re-evaluate renewing my season tickets...
Go blue!
I think they are going to do exactly what they did when they hired Beilein:
Get a credible panel together, put together a list of the best coaches in the sport, narrow it down based on criteria and availability, and go hard after the one they come up with.
There are not too many coaches that would turn Michigan down, its up to Michigan to evaluate the coaches correctly before pursuing them.
Miles probably won't even end up in Michigan's top 10.
Lloyd will stick around for 5-10 more years by which time DeBord and Miles will retire, English will be coaching the Lions, Corwin Brown will be HC at Notre Dame, Harbaugh at Ohio State, Cam Cameron will be the NFL commissioner, Urban Meyer will be ruling over Hell and so on.
Why isn't Ron English taken seriously as a HC candidate? He would solve the MDB problem (wouldn't DeBord leave if his junior was promoted directly above him?), he appears to be a good recruiter, and the other candidates really don't look appealing. Why would Tedford leave Berkley for Michigan, other than money? He has good access to talent in California, a better climate to sell to recruits, and an excellent fanbase. If he leaves for money, isn't he just another Saban/Meyer?
Loeffler is also somebody who has shown positive recruiting outcomes. I know he's young, but wouldn't that be better than Miles, or a greedy salesman/Saban clone?
Just some general thoughts on Tedford (I live in NorCal and Cal is my 2nd favorite team -- a distant 2nd of course!):
He recruits well, esp. given: the state of the program when he took over (way down), academic restrictions (my impression is they're a little tougher than UM's WRT athletes), facilities (pathetic -- easily worst in Pac 10) -- he has had some advantages here in that Calif. has tons of talent and Stanford and until recently UCLA have been struggling.
He's competed with USC (and beat them once) with much less talent. Very good game plans and good on field adjustments in those games for the most part.
He's done a great job designing his O and developing his O players, esp. at QB.
He's relatively hands off on D. He has picked good D coaches and let them do their jobs -- they've overachieved IMO given their decent but not great D talent.
Represents his univ well. No incidents or scandals. Carries himself well.
Why is it that young head coach candidates (Loeffler) are automatically dismissed because they are young? Wasn't Bo really young? Wasn't Paterno really young? What do you guys think?
what the heck happened to iowa the last 2 years?...underacheivement due to ________
excessive amounts of players "from Nebraska"?
I believe Bo was 40 when he took over at Michigan. He had assisted for 10 years at Ohio State, Presbyterian, Bowling Green, and Northwestern before taking a head coach position at Miami (OH) University. He coached there for 6 years. So he had 16 years of coaching experience before becoming head coach at Michigan.
Joe Paterno always coached at Penn State, but he was an assistant for 16 years there before taking on head coaching duties. I'm pretty sure he turned 40 in his first year as head coach there as well.
Loeffler turns 37 this year. This will be his eigth year as a quarterback coach. I could see why people would be a bit nervous about him making the jump to head coach.
On the other hand, English is 39 and is entering his 13th year of assistant coaching. I think this year will help determine if he is one of the main candidates whenever Carr decides to retire.
Loeffler is 32, not 37.
As for the earlier question about English, while he deserves consideration, he should not be the front-runner. We should first go after guys with proven track records as head coaches. English - assuming he has a good year as DC - could be a fallback option if those guys don't work out.
Every time one of these articles or discussions on LC's departure comes up two things in particular spring to mind:
1) Not one of us knows that LC will retire after this year, and it is just as likely he will stay through the next batch of recruits ("the Mallett era"). All of this discussion was brought about by some contract restructuring.
2) All of these discussion and articles about LC's departure must surely add to the "evidence" coaches like Meyer and Weiss use against us in the recruiting game.
You're right - 32. Don't know where I got 37 from. And I totally agree about looking outside at all candidates instead of strictly staying in-house.
Michigan announced all 25 teams are going from Nike to Adidas. That ought to make the folks from Oregon happy right as we're about to play them.
Tedford would be ideal. However, if a Michigan football coach made an in-game adjustment I dare say half the viewing audience might drop dead from shock.
There is no case to be made for Mike DeBord. None. He was the worst coach Central Michigan has ever had..just look at the records just prior to his time there, and also the record immediately after he left. Central has a fairly decent football tradition, and DeBord bottomed that program out.
I agree that English is at best a fallback option. We know very little about him at this point, other than he's supposedly a well regarded recruiter.
Michigan will be the #1 job in college football available whenever the time comes (after this year) and there should be no shortage of very good candidates for the position. Not going all Notre Dame or Ohio State fan who expected Bill Belichick to leave the Patriots to coach their teams, but I think sights should be set just a *tad* higher than a MAC retread who wouldn't even be in the coaching profession if his best friend hadn't rescued him from the scrap heap 2 years ago and a DC with one whopping year's experience in that position.
P.S. Screw Les Miles. Aside from his alleged shadiness....is the guy even a good coach?
OT: This is the first announcement I've heard from the BTN that sounds resigned to the fate of not being on Comcast.
"'We're well on our way toward ensuring that roughly half the subscribers to smaller cable systems across the Midwest have better access to their favorite Big Ten schools and teams than anytime in history,' Big Ten Network president Mark Silverman said in a statement."
I'm not really sure how this would affect the Oregon game. Is Phil Knight going to give UO a pep talk?
Why is a coach with a proven track record better than a young coach? I know people like to say, "we're going after someone with a proven track record," but they never explain why. Mike DeBoard has a proven track record. There are numerous situations where coaches with "proven track records" have underperformed their "proven track records," such as Lou Holtz in South Carolina, Steve Spurrier in South Carolina (trend?), John Mackovic at Arizona, Earl Bruce at Colorado State, etc. I know that everyone will rebut with "Gerry Faust!," but he was a high school coach, and nobody is suggesting a high school coach. People will probably next reply with, "Zook!," but he was responsible for recruiting a national championship team at Florida, and he looks pretty strong at Illinois. If we don't promote from within, won't we lose the entire staff? I presume that a new outsider would bring his own staff. That would mean "Rebuilding," and we don't need that. It would also mean missing out on whatever future success Loeffler or English have. It would be nice to see Loeffler or English as the favorites, rather than somebody who just wants more money.
Add Fred Akres at Purdue as another "proven coach" who completely failed.
All I can say is that I'm glad you are not our athletic director.
College coaches can be classified into all the subsets ( 8 ) of:
{
a) Masters of X's and O's
b) Faces of the program. Role models.
c) Aggressive Recruiters.
}
Les Miles' only claim to fame is (c) because of the fertility in LA region. Why is he even a candidate ?
Lloyd Carr excels in (b) and (c). I am happy with him. Please change DeBord though.
That's really all you can say? You have an oddly limited vocabulary, carc!
Why not Brian Kelly? Made GVSU a national power, and turned CMU into MAC elite with most of DEBORD'S talent! If this guy makes Cincy better I think he has to be the No. 1 guy because of all his ties to Michigan/Ohio high schools. Plus he hates MSU for not hiring him....
We need someone who hates Ohio State. Former cops?
I'm down with Brian Kelly getting a look. He's earned at least a serious look.
We need someone who hates Ohio State.
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Maurice Clarett?
"The contract includes important provisions that reflect the commitment of both the University and adidas to labor and human rights issues. adidas' Social & Environmental Affairs team monitors contract factories for compliance with fair labor and sustainability codes of conduct in order to identify potential problems and implement positive changes. The adidas SEA team provides regular monitoring reports to adidas partner schools."
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In other words, head over to M Den and get Nike jerseys at sweatshop prices while they last!
Is Ron English completely out of the question? If our Defense is close to last year's dominance, A) We are going to win the big ten easy, if not the nat title and B) Shouldn't that be enough to prove he's a great coach? If we don't hire him as head coach someone will
Big IF Dan. If I were the opposing defensive coordinator I'd throw all day and that sends me chills as I write this. USC 2nd half is a great blueprint. That might require a QB as accurate as Booty and luckily we don't face that caliber QBs but still it is a blueprint.
If Tim Jamison and Graham don't get to QBs, our Offense better prepare for some shootouts.
replace "defensive coordinator" with "offensive coordinator"* in the previous comment
i prefer identifying m's possible next head coach now-----whoever that turns out to be [english/loeffler/someone else/ogodogod not debord] and make that person asst head coach or some such with some admin responsibilities while making it clear that coach carr will be hc as long as he wants--but--when lc retires then this person will seamlessly become the next hc.....
i would prefer that m actually go outside the program for its next coach---but i know that too many big shots still remember the gloomy days pre-bo and no one will want to risk a repeat
*** i would prefer that m actually go outside the program for its next coach---but i know that too many big shots still remember the gloomy days pre-bo and no one will want to risk a repeat ***
Uh, the reason the days prior to Bo were gloomy was because U-M DID promote from within.
Let's not forget that Les turned his back on Michigan when it came to voting for the national championship game. Outcome aside, that's bridge burning you can't build back.
1st: why doesn't anyone realize that RE has had identical success as one Jimmy herrman as a DC? except that herrman produced a better defense. so yea...RE seems to be a good recruiter and a good DC, but so did herrman. i'm NOT NOT NOT saying that RE will turn into another herrman (tho i'd bet the 98 D will turn out to be better than the 07 D). what i'm say is this: if the herrman-RE comparison doesn't explain why a more proven coach is the best option, then i don't know what would. and leoffler as HC...umm no. i'd be all for keeping him as the OC/QB coach. but HC? not enough experience.
i certainly appreciate the tedford info...he seems like a good candidate. i don't think him moving from cal to M would be simply a money grab. in spite of the location of UC-B, i think it's safe to say that M has a higher ceiling. that is a fairly big step up for a coaches career.
also, grabbing a coach who brings in new personnel will not constitute a rebuilding phase...it will be closer to the UF situation when they got urban. the top 10 talent won't just dissappear. besides, one key will be to get a guy who will have recruiting ties to the midwest, cal, tex, Fl...and if he doesn't have midwest/MI connections, then he will certainly need to keep a few coaches or bring in some guys who have been recruiting MI and the midwest.
and, does adidas really do much better than nike in the slave labor issue? i don't think their shoes are made in springfield, XX either. lets hope they do better with the basketball jerseys than nike has in the past.
finally, there are waaay too many Dans around:
Dan ----> DanK
oh yea, and there's been alot more (minor) evidence than the contract that LC will be out sooner than later. i've heard he stopped promising recruits he'd be around for 4 years...like 3-4 years ago with the henne/hart class. i've heard rumblings from guys like karsh for years now. still, it's just my gut feeling based on circumstantial evidence and (anti-foster ie,usually respected) hearsay. fwiw
and again...ferentz...has their recruiting drpped off to 'nebraska' level DBs? alls i know is that iowa shared 2 B10 titles in 3-4 years, including 10,11 win seasons. then they get a great RC in 05 i think (Dace richardson, Dan Doering, Jake christianson class iirc) and then they fall off the table the last 2 years. come on iowa people, get out of the cornfields and on to your comnputer boxes.
Jon Gruden anyone? I think we become instantly bad-ass with this hire. He's the only coach I can imagine bringing a Pete Carroll-like swagger to the UM coaching position. His NFL experience/celberity would send recruiting through the roof. He's known for being a workaholic and for putting together tough defenses. I'm sure he's got some cred in the fertile recruiting ground of Florida as well. Why would we overlook this guy? Is there any truth to the rumor that he's got an out clause for UM, ND, and OSU? ND and OSU seem pretty locked at the Head Coach position. I'm sure he'd love an excuse to ditch Tampa.
Les Miles would turn Michigan into O$U. You don't want him.
Back at the beginning someone mention Ferentz and he was quickly put down. Personally, I think Kirk is a great coach. He runs his program with a lot of class. He's had a tough two years, but look at his resources and recruiting ground. The guy is doing a great job with the tools he has. Put him at a Michigan or Nebraska and he would create an instant powerhouse.
PSU fans have their eye on Ferentz as Paterno's replacement (Along with Greg Schiano at Rutgers). He claims he was a PSU fan growing up in Western PA and the Penn State job would be his dream job. I think we could do a lot worse.
While RE seems to have the qualities you'd want in a HC, I can't ignore the fact that he took over a defense with 4 NFl draft picks as starters. And even with that, in the two most important games of the season, our defense gave up 74 points and 940 yards of total offense. Sure, the ignominious disappearance of the offense in the RB didn't help the D, but there's no way you can spin the defensive results as anything less than a huge disaster. If it had been the MSU or ND defense that had gacked in two critical games like that, we'd all still be laughing about it.
This coming year, after the loss of Hall, Woodley, Branch, and Harris, is going to be a more telling test of English's abilities as a coach. IF our defense is even close to as good as last year's, then that's a great indication that RE is truly all that. If we sink back down to something like 8-4, then the talk of RE being Carr's successor will die back considerably.
RE ain't the only coordinator with HC aspirations who will be in the crosshairs. Considering the losses on defense and the number of returning starters on offense, the onus is going to be on Debord to produce. Anything less than a consistently powerful and productive offense (barring injuries) will, or at least should, end any talk of MD as a future HC at Michigan.
And forget Kirk Ferentz coming directly to Michigan. It's virtually unheard of for head coaches at major programs to move directly to another major competitor in the same conference. When they do end up at a conf. rival (such as Saban did at Alabama, or Spurrier at S Carolina) it's always after an intermediate stop somewhere else first.
Why do people think Jon Gruden would leave the NFL? I literally can't think of a better candidate if he's willing, but have there ever been any indications that he'd want the job?
Amazed at all the English-hating that seems to have resulted from just two games. English had a monster defensive line last year, but virtually no secondary aside from Leon Hall (who was good, but not superman). Things came apart when we encountered two teams with strong, fast offensive lines and multiple quality receivers. The performance of the D last year wildly exceeded my expectations, and I'm a little mystified as to how those two losses are supposed to discredit English. I thought he did pretty well with the tools that he had, although I do with the secondary had shown more convincing signs of progress over the course of the season.
Totally don't buy Brian Kelly as a candidate. DeBord's approach didn't work at CMU because it's not Michigan... you can't count on atheletes who can win on just superior execution even when the other side knows what's coming. Brian Kelly had more success by calling absolutely crazy plays. With some lucky breaks, that kind of thing can work in the MAC, but you can't earn a living that way consistently in the Big Ten.
If Carr were to retire soon (not a sure thing, but hardly unthinkable), I think English, Tedford, and Trgovac would all be serious candidates. I think that Norm Chow would get a serious look (he's never made any secret of his desire for an HC job, Michigan is the kind of job that might lure him from the NFL, and the chance to face off against Carrol's Trojans in the Rose Bowl would be a serious selling point). I have no inside information at all, but I'd probably bet on English at this point. Michigan likes to promote from within, and the program isn't in the sort of crisis that it was in the pre-Bo years. I think DeBord may get eased into an office job at the Athletic Department in favor of Loeffler at O.C.
There it is. Worth every penny you paid for it.
Gruden talk comes from his comment years ago that his dream job would be to coach Michigan or Ohio State. Of course, that was many moons before he was an established NFL coach. Pure fantasy, but fun to think about.
Redux, I'd bet on English too if I had to pick someone. I just have a hard time seeing U-M going out and hiring someone like Tedford (my ideal candidate).
I may be entirely off base, but I thought Chow had said or hinted that he preferred coordinating to being a HC.
Chow is too old...by the time he had his own recruits he would be ready to retire.
Re the supposed English-hating...
It's not like we held the two most potent offenses we faced mostly in check in close 23-17 losses. You can spin 940 yards and 74 points any way you want, but we still got our asses handed to us. Yes, we had overall a very good season defensively if you just look at the aggregate, but if you weren't tremendously disappointed in the defense at the end of the season, then you must have expected the results that happened. I didn't expect us to win either game, but I sure as hell didn't expect our defense to essentially disappear for large stretches in both games. You're right about OSU's and USC's O-linemen and receivers being big and fast; I would argue that one excellent indicator of top-level coaching is the ability to neutralize or reduce a talent disparity via strategy and tactics specific to the opponent. From what I saw against OSU, we appeared unprepared and frequently confused by their pedal-to-the-metal offensive approach. And against USC, I was surprised that we did not employ a more aggressive effort to put pressure on Booty beyond a standard pass rush from the d-line.
Just to be clear: I am NOT saying that English is a lousy coach or should be fired or any of that nonsense; THAT would be English-hating. But I think the coronation of him as the presumptive next HC should be based on more than one very good but not great season as head of the defense.
Dan,
Don't forget O'Brien going from Boston College to North Carolina State
Shouldn't Florida's beat down of OSU give Les some football IQ credit? Maybe we should hire him, at least he could tell that we wouldn't win out next game...
Gravatar We need someone who hates Ohio State. Former cops?
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That would be bad news for Mario, Adrian, Carson, Eugene, Richards and etc ,etc, etc...
Tu Quoque Jorel ?
Chill dude. I can make a claim about how Mario, Adrian are not *proven* guilty and other guilty players are out of the team... but that would escape your feeble mind.
So maybe Gruden isn't interested. But I think it's worth calling him FIRST. And offering him top dollar. Maybe not Saban-like amounts, but close. Any disagreements?
Gruden goes if Bucs don't reach playoff this year. Hey even Pete Carroll is a NFL reject. Gruden is more fiery than Carroll.
I totally love this. But the realist in me thinks why a guy in sunny confines of Miami with top money would come to a school up North where a 1 loss or 2 loss season is considered a failure?
Although the defense did perform poorly against OSU and USC, one has to recognize the impact of the offense's failings in the dismal RB performance.
It killed M in the 3rd quarter- especially when you include the 2 turnovers, both of which gave USC short field (and resulted in points).
Not blaming the offense totally (as the D still gave up a ton of yards and quite a few long drives), but it didn't help matters any.
Shutting down a team that is given that kind of advantage is much more difficult.
I am disturbed by the widely held opinion amongst SEC fans that Miles is the stupidest coach in the conference.
Personally, I think Brooks is up there, but Miles is pretty close.
"I am disturbed by the widely held opinion amongst SEC fans that Miles is the stupidest coach in the conference."
As an SEC fan, I can say he got off to a pretty bad start with me. I think his first big game was Tennessee at LSU. Besides blowing a huge first half lead, the following scene left me, uh, unimpressed.
I don't remember exactly, but it was something like a tie or a close score near the end of the game. Tennessee has the ball. Tennessee throws an interception. LSU fans go nuts. The camera then cuts to Les Miles frantically trying to call a time out, apparently the only person in the stadium over 4 years old that doesn't know that the clock stops after a turnover, before being restrained by his assistant coaches, presumably by telling him that he won't get his post-game juice box if he wastes a time out with the damn game on the line.
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