The Finch thing doesn't make any sense to me. Simply because he's got a few friends going to IU, that changes his mind? And also, I like how he made the comment a few months ago that he wasn't even thinking about other schools. Note to all other recruits, don't committ unless you're 100% sure that the decision isn't going to change.
Oh well, time to zero in on RoJo.
Barksdale got paid some of that counterfeit cash that Perriloux was spending. But yeah you guys had an awful year with instate talent. We lost Ben Martin but you guys lost everybody.....
I was just scratching my head over the Jeremy Finch thing myself. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I have that funny feeling starting down in the pit of my stomach about the program
Finch hurts. Should we be questioning the staff and their recruiting ability?
The mandatory acquisition of RoJo becomes that much more important now, as if it weren't enough of a necessity already. Of course, this will just make that inevitable failure that much more crushing. I'm stocking up on Maalox for next season.
I agree on your assessment of Rohlfs and Hensick (good grief, no human should be able to hold on to a puck for so long), though I'm not sure I would call Jack Johnson his usual self this weekend. It seemed like he was over-hockeyed after the Junior World tournament and definitely got tired as the weekend wore on. That's a lot of games to play in a short span of time, by the way. But either which way, he missed some steps he would have gotten in most games, I thought. Don't take this as a diss though... he still played better than his partners, he just wasn't 100% perfect as he usually seems.
Just to help out the "they were tired" idea: If you watched the amount of hooking and stick prodding our used as the game wore on, you would have seen what basically amounted to a dog sled team, except replacing the dogs with wildcats. We got lazy and it showed, big time. Hopefully this week will give them a chance to recoup a bit.
Naurato actually had a decent weekend... for Naurato. I think Lebler picked up his slack however, unfortunately.
Give the Northern D some credit too.. they played pretty solidly against us on Saturday night, and Friday night they weren't terrible (for definition of "terrible," see "Bowling Green").
What's with our inability to stay onsides? Is it really that necessary to get the extra step on the dump-in, or to make a move at the blue line?
Seriously, these are high school kids. I know it is frustrating, more so due to the fact of being second fiddle to another DB recruit, but I think we need a little perspective. I honestly can't make myself get caught up in all this recruiting junk. If a kid wants to go to a crappy program because of his friends, so be it, it is his choice. His way of going about it sucked (possibly ruining our chances with Clifford and/or Edwards??), and I don't think this type of decision making bodes well for his future, but he is only 17 or 18. Michigan will be Michigan, we'll get our fair share of recruits. Now let's just hope RoJo commits and Jamar Adams doesn't receive the wrath of "Michigan safety hating God" next year, or we are really in big trouble.
Yes, these are high school kids, but right now there is a formula that is in place for the big programs - USC, Texas, Florida, Ohio State: they pick and choose the best of the in-state talent - that is not happening for Michigan. And it is not just a one-year outlier. We got one of the top five players out of Michigan last year. Who thinks that Ryan Mallet would be coming to Michigan if Brantley never did his switcheroo?
I hate to boil it all back down to Carr, but something is broken. To have two elite players decommitting (Maze, too) in mid-January and to be missing most in-state talent means there is a problem. Denial is not a river in Egypt.
Kids decommit all the time. This could be spun in a couple of ways (from the merely unfortunate progressively to the progammatically damning):
1. Finch is an Indiana kid with several friends and teammates going to IU. Maybe a girlfriend, who knows? He's 18 after all.
2. Indiana is on the way up (can't go down from the bottom) and has an energetic coaching staff. Finch liked the enthusiasm Hoeppner's brought to the program. Michigan, well, Michigan's often a bit... dour.
3. Look at defensive backfield performance from the last two Michigan games (you can bet that finch saw 'em). Aside from starting time, what does a prospective safety learn from those games? While he may not be sure if the right adjective is 'hapless' or 'helpless', a talented recruit might be pardoned if he doesn't want to be a part of some similar nationally televised spectacle a year or three down the road.
I agree with points one and two...particularly the "dour" part...but point three is the opposite. Kids don't care how other guys are performing at their position, unless they are performing too well. Sucky play at their position at a great college has traditionally been honey to the recruiting bears. It is the main thing we are dangling in front of Rojo.
Sorry, I don't mean "sucky play" all the time, just in the year immediately preceeding their enrollment. A tradition of great play is, of course, important.
It's hard to make a judgment call on this one. Finch could just as easily say screw it come signing day and come back to Michigan once he steps back and takes a look at the programs.
Recruiting's hardly an exact science.
Basketball however is different. Michigan continues to play like crap on the road and the effort from Michigan's upperclassmen has been questionable all year. Dion Harris was the only guy that tried to make something happen on Saturday. As for Sims, something ain't right and I'd sit him until he plays like he means it. Jerret Smith should never see the floor again, 3 TO in 16 minutes, no FG attempts and no points.
Until this team wins a road game there's no way in hell they make the tourney.
Does the Finch switch mean I should forget about my annual return to AA for a football game and substitute it with a trip a half hour north to watch Rutgers play? What is happening to our program?
I'd hardly call Maze an "elite" recruit, and his situation looks more like Michigan dropping him as opposed to him decommiting. I mean, the kid said no one from the staff has contacted him for months. Sounds like he became less of a priority, for whatever reason, and the staff was hoping he'd come to a new, different, decision.
To clarify to some of the above posters - we dropped Maze, not the other way around.
Finch: I think we drastically underestimated the impact of IU taking some of his buddies (specifically: Jeff Boyd) that we couldn't take due to other factors (talent, grades, etc).
But it's not over for Finch. Not by a mile.
OK on Maze. I was taken in by Brian's enthusiasm for Maze in past postings and his 4.4 speed. WolverineKeith, why isn't it over? Besides begging, what can Michigan do?
Billy has stopped 94% of his shots since Christmas, and that's including the GLI final, when he got hung out to dry on a couple of those goals.
The good news is that the problem with Billy this year is that he seems to have to the occasional really bad game mixed in with a bunch of really good ones, as opposed to consistently struggling like he did last year.
Oh dam, Its official. Pittman and Ginn declare for the draft. Well happy MLK day for me. No Troy, Pittman, Gonzo, or Ginn folks for 2007.
"Barksdale got paid some of that counterfeit cash that Perriloux was spending. But yeah you guys had an awful year with instate talent. We lost Ben Martin but you guys lost everybody....."
An OSU fan accusing someone else of paying their players...ah, the delicious irony.
SoJ, the Pittman thing is good. You want Wells carrying the rock every down. Pittman's stock would only go down having to share more and more during his senior year.
It does seem odd that Michigan has had so much trouble landing top-rated secondary talent lately. Why are premiere receivers (e.g. Tony Clemons, Junior Hemingway) more likely to stick with us than premiere defensive backs?
Not to deviate but we missed the UM wrestling team, Michigan's most consistently successful male sport since 2000, going 0-2 at the National Team Championships - an event that they had placed in the top 8 at six straight years.
Bye-bye Teddy, Troy, Gonzo, and Pitman. We WON'T miss you.
An OSU fan accusing someone else of paying their players...ah, the delicious irony.
***************************************
Yeah because we definitely have room to talk
Two hockey thoughts:
1. JJ was playing really well prior to the break; this weekend, not so much. The sight of he and Hunwick blazing up ice while an opponent skated in on a breakaway brought back memories (nightmares) of last season.
2. Sauer played relatively well last weekend, including a stretch of several great saves in the second period Saturday night. That said, I don't remember ever seeing a Michigan goalie fight the puck to the extent he does. Even when playing well, he seems like he's on the verge of losing it.
I think it's time to ask the question: Can Ron English recruit? He joined the staff in '03, and it seems that since then we have lost out on a number of big-time DB recruits, a few of whom were supposed "locks" for the program.
It's one thing to lose out to another enthusiastic coach, but to a coach at IU? Who's had two operations for brain cancer?
When a potential recruit watches USC pants Michigan for the second time in three years, it's bad enough. But when he can read the following in the newpapers after the game, it's especially damaging:
USC center Ryan Kalil knew Michigan's defensive front had been feared most of the season, but he said the Trojans were totally prepared for everything they saw.
"They were very, very comfortable with their schemes and we didn't feel they would change up too much, and they didn't," Kalil said. "There was nothing we didn't see. We were able to call it all out, whether it was from myself or John David Booty . We were able to see everything."
or:
USC's center, Ryan Kalil, and its defensive end, Lawrence Jackson, both talked about the predictable nature of Michigan's strategy -- on both sides of the ball. Jackson called U-M's defense traditional and stale.
or:
Cushing.... praised the Wolverines afterward because that is what players are taught to do and there is no percentage in not doing so. But he also admitted that he had been well-enough prepared to know what was coming with just about every Michigan trip to the line of scrimmage.
"Yup, pretty much so," he said.
Thanks to the internet, these comments can be read by HS kids all over the country; they can easily see that Pete Carroll and his staff accurately predicted how Michigan was going to approach the Rose Bowl from a coaching and game-prep standpoint, and there's no way the UM staff can come out looking anything other than foolish, and yes, hapless.
And if Terry Hoeppner is smart, he also pointed out that Pete Carroll's confidence that UM would change nothing for the RB was based on not just one game on Jan. 1, 2004, but on our long-established tradition of NEVER bringing anything new to the table in a Rose Bowl (or any big game, for that matter).
With our overall level of talent, a refusal to use aggressive game-planning that incorporates an element of surprise doesn't hurt us against teams with inferior talent. However, against teams with equal or superior talent who have coaches who are themselves willing to introduce things we haven't seen on tape, we are frequently caught with our pants down around our ankles. We rarely, rarely initiate; we just respond as best we can. It's really sort of a passive-aggressive brand of football.
Look at it this way: we are like the classic counterpuncher in boxing. Counterpunchers almost always possess sound boxing skills, but they never initiate; they only punch after they're hit first, and it's a rare counterpuncher that has one-punch KO power.
don, brilliant.
one guy decommits = no doubt evidence that the program is an impending disaster. also, thanks for inserting USC quotes we've read on these threads for 2 weeks. again,
anything bad happening = EOP(rogram)
anything good = happened inspite of the coaches.
btw, i doubt Hoepner brought up the RB too much during that recruitment.
I can see it now: finch is getting the presentation from the football staff @ IU. film of the RB & OSU comes up on the screen...."now, ya see how crappy M plays in the RB and vs OSU? who wants to do that? now, us....well we coached our DBs to play great in BIG games vs Purdue aaand Kentucy." sssssuuuuuure..... talk about your opponents' in 2 of the biggest games in CFB this year. logic be damned!!!!!
I don't mean to continually sound negative, but the other area where the team REALLY needs help is the o=line, where recruiting results have been minimal this year. The true lesson of both the Rose Bowl and the National Championship was that line play is crucial. This website has mentioned that before, and I know most Michigan fans accept that fact, so I don't want to claim credit or anything. However, schemes and creative coaching cannot overcome incompetent line play. Look at Notre Dame; Coach Supergenius can out scheme Purdue, Stanford, and the service academies for 8-9 wins per year. However, as soon as his team plays against somebody with a good defensive line, 47-21, 41-14, etc. ND had some good lineman sign up last year, and we did get Schilling, but I guess I am surprised by the lack of excitement line recruits have about Michigan. Growing up, I remember watching behemoth lines crush everyone in their paths, and I remember having the impression that top line recruits always placed Michigan in their top-five. Was I wrong? Was that just youthful naivety? Regardless, they aren't doing that today, and the o-line was severely exposed in the Rose Bowl...
Dan,
Great points. And I am sure that people are talking to Finch about UM's unimaginative offense. Hello, people Finch plays defense and we had one of the best in CFB unlike Indiana. I doubt the "Michigan's on field performance in 2006" card was played often.
FF- yea, you've got a point. the line has been a problem off & on for the last 4-5 years. not crappy, just inconsistent. the underachievement of some (Pape, lentz, henige,stenavitch, mitchell a few others) and the "oh crap, that guys a *starter* (riely, pearson)?" has become a concern. perhaps we've concerntrated too much on WR & DL recruits? can't complain there, i guess. I just don't think the DB recruiting is all on the coaches. i think it's more about the location of DB talent...ie, NOT in the Midwest. eugene is a Louisiana kid. Mays from the left coast. Rolle from NJ. any good DBs (esp CBs) are from Pa & OH. to some extent, the OL issues are a result of this too, actually.
dan,
I visit this site daily, and just reviewed every post and thread since Brian's review on Jan. 5. In that time there was just one reference to the USC statements that I came across, and no direct quoting. If there were more extended discussions of the USC statements, can you point me to them? I'd like to read what everybody had to say.
Regarding one decommit equaling impending disaster: my point was that Finch is just the latest in a series of high-profile DB recruiting losses. I agree, one decommit doesn't mean disaster, but it's the trend I'm referring to. Do you think that Taylor Mays or Myron Rolle or Chai Eugene or Justin King or Victor Harris would not have made a difference in the Rose Bowl? And if not, because our DB talent is just fine as it is, then how to explain the poor showing in the RB?
Regarding everything good happening in spite of the coaches, I did not state that. We had a very good season overall; we've put too many guys into the NFL and won too many games for me to say that Lloyd should be fired or that our coaches are completely clueless. There is no shame in losing to teams with superior talent, but it's frustrating to observe UM being beaten in much the same way by the same team (USC) in two successive Rose Bowls against them. You can't convince me that it's not a bad thing when other coaches and players apparently can predict with some accuracy what our defense or offense will do in given down and distance situations.
When Eisenhower and the Supreme Allied Command were planning the logistics for D-Day, they knew they were assembling the largest and most powerful landing forces in the history of warfare. Yet in spite of that force superiority, the Allies still thought it necessary to carry out a variety of elaborate deceptions to hide their real landing plans and confuse or distract the Germans in Normandy and back in Berlin. They knew that they had to do anything they could to tilt the field in their direction. I wish our coaches, who are smart guys, would take the same approach sometimes.
Dan:
What's your point? That was annoying.
Yes, any isolated event is, by itself, an isolated event. Anything can be ignored as an isolated event.
The trend matters. And the trend is not great: big game losses, recruiting losses.
Not saying that the end is near, but when not good shit happens, the last thing I am going to do is keep wafting the aroma towards me and say that it smells like roses.
I like your style, don.
Doesn't Finch have a kid with said GF? Apparently, message board posters are feeling that that has the most to do with the decommit vs. obvious football disparities between M and Indiana. It's Jai Eugene again, just without the last minute theatrics.
In the final analysis, if M does land Ronald Johnson the recruiting situation cannot be considered disastrous.
Mallett and Johnson (if he is blue) were the two biggest needs.
Losing Finch is a bizarre situation, can't figure a four star prospect going to a program that hadn't signed a single four star prospect for at least four years.
Funny how this Boyd kid is talking national championship at IU, I think we have a case of some kids who had great success in high school but, of course, have zero understanding of how the real world functions....IU is going to continue to get their butts kicked every season. Would you trade M's recruiting class with IU's? Would you trade any position group with IU?
O-Line was weak too, but was not be an emergency situation like D-back was this year. O-Line will be an emergency next year, and M appears to be in early on a whole bunch of good ones. Probably will have to sign 5 O-Line next year to make up for this year.
Maze visited Tennessee and lied about it to the coaches, he was dropped. If McGuffie comes to M, he can be the scat-back return man that Maze was going to be.
So all is not lost my friends. I fully expect M to beat both ND and OSU next season. As for the bowl games, who knows? Based on recent history, M will end up playing LSU in the Sugar Bowl.
Why can't we have a BCS game in Detroit? I think that would make all the sense in the world.
`don, sorry to put ya on that reseach tailspin re: past threads. I think it's been mentioned 1-2 times & referenced to here & there. the point is, i don't see how a few USC comments lead to Finch decommitting. it's a stretch at best.
lol....Eisenhower...yes, some Offensive misdirection would be good, I just don't think misdirection = RB win 2 weeks ago. recall, for all the planning the allies did for overlord, very little worked out. landing sites were off by KMs, no armored support, little air support due to weather. too much equip for teh men to carry. the point i've made all along is that it still comes down to the infantrymen (=players) to carry out their orders (= execute). D-day was a success due to the infantry executing their orders inspite of planning failures.
Mdan...let's just agree to disagree. you see losses and thus coaching is a failure. I see losses, and look into *how* we lost each individual game (and recruit, see below). doing so, i don't see a clear cut pattern. sometimes the Oline gets blown up like london during the blitz. sometimes WRs drop TDs. sometimes the enemy has heisman winners taht make plays. yes, *sometimes* we don't adjust fast enough. yes, herrman's D-style was flawed *at times*. i think, if you look into any program w/ the microscope we do, there will be flaws in D Skemes, lack of proper adjustments at times, etc.
My point was that *every* time a bad thing happens, it's "OMG, there's a trend...coaches are terrible." no matter what the "thing" is. Finch wants to stay close to home/GF & somehow people read it as a direct result of Carr's gameplans/Tressel owns us/RB losses...holy shiq more evidence we need a new coach. It's "Navarre blamed for El Nino & 9/11" all over again.
(also, Mallet to UM was surely due to that other kid committing to Tex. nothing to do with carr or his 6.022x10^23 QBs in the NFL or anything. again, no credit for success, ALL credit for the blame)
would all those above DB players have helped us? probably, but recall Y.A. Mundy was OMG shirtless w/ Burgess 4 years ago. maybe we really can't coach a safety for crap. when's the last time we put a S into the nfl? if anything (besides the GF), THAT would explain Finch. but no, it's the RB loss and carr's gaemplan, obvs.
look into those DB recruit losses... they were all out of state. Mays was from seattle. Eugene from louisiana (plus the kid- ya gonna put that one on carr too?). harris from Va. King from PA. Rolle from NJ. the fact is, kids west of teh rockies see USC as the pinnacle. UW lost out on Mays too. harris was in a fire that scarred him-just like F Beamer. i think he went to....VaTech. shocking. look, it comes & it goes in recruiting. for a while, we got tons of kids from PA. now not so much. If you expect to get 50% of out of state 5* kids, you're delusional.
again, I see:
Finch wants to stay close to home/GF/friends.
Mays gets immeadiate PT @ USC spurning UW & UM
Harris wants to
harris wants to stay home + the fire thing.
Eugene had the kid
King got promised WR PT. (should Carr have done the same with MM/Breston/AVANT/AA on the roster?)
everone else sees: oh crap, we lost out on 4-5 5* DBs in 2-3 years. who would NOT want to go to UM? thus, more evidence that the coaches are imcompetent.
finally, yea, these data points *imply* a trend. but, UFR, how the data points got where they are do not support the supposition that coaches are *necessarily* crappy.
//end of thesis
I must say that although Michigan apparentyl lost SOME in-state talent, should ROJO commit, I would say we recruited it well. The guys we lost, Allen and Barksdale excluded, were not world-beaters. If we get ROJO, I have no complaints as far as in-state recruiting goes.
Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Finch's decommittal was influenced in part by the commitment of Mike Williams, a player whose character and talent makes him a far better prospect than Finch. Having both would have been nice, but given Finch's lack of speed (4.8 at Iowa combine), I had him pegged as an OLB from the start anyway. Mouton will have us covered there. Give me Boubacar and a big-time safety next year and with Trent having two more years of eligibility, we'll be guaranteed competency at the corners.
That said, I am in fact dismayed by the lack of talent we've brought in at MIKE and on the OL this year. Pathetic, honestly.
"his 6.022x10^23 QBs in the NFL"
Chem nerd :)
physics, actually. gotta speak in laymans(sp?) terms, though. ;)
>>Why can't we have a BCS game in Detroit? I think that would make all the sense in the world.
hey, what happened to the rest of my post??
By 14331431 QBs do you mean 2 that actually play? Griese and Brady. Todd Collins is a water boy, and Navarre is probably a practice squad tight end right now. USC has just as many QBs in the NFL by that logic. I mean look at Leinart and Palmer are starting, while they got Matt Cassell polishing Brady's shoes.
It'd be nice if Henne gets drafted in the first round, but frankly with Carr and Debord's fetish to run the ball against everyone, Henne is not going to be a 1st round pick against QBs whose teams put the ball in their QB's hand to win games... like Booty and Brohm.
Adding to the awful of the past few days (and speaking of paying players) C-Webb now plays for the Pistons.
Well as long as Webber can keep track of how many timeouts we have and play a shade of his Sacramento days, I'll be happy.
This Ryan Kalil, "oh we know whats coming" is not really new. Texas said the same thing in 04 and every opponent in big 10 has been saying this, if you guys have premier rivals account, you can read their "what other teams players and coaches think about M" series during the big ten media day.
Nobody gives a shit because its preseason. These things crop up when we lose, if we win its just a sign of physicality. So really, the coaches have to take the brunt, unless they win the big games.
You guys can add Darrin WAlls and AJ wallace to that DB shit list.MArlin was the last bluechip recriut we signed, and whatever way you look at it, its pretty bad.Heck its been 2 years since Jackson graduated, so in 6 years we have had Mundy/Burgess/Leon/Harrison/Brown plus Mike Williams now as 4* or better DB recruits. And we have shown no great ability to develop talent either, yes trent has been serviceable but others, pftt....so there is a problem and its very apparent.
We better get ROJO else we are in deepshit, like it or not.
The kids we recruit are well aware of Michigan's record in big games over the past 6 years. That is an eternity in today's CFB world. They could also care less what Fielding Yost was doing back in the heady days of fall 1902.
The recruiting losses we've sustained so far have definitely been influenced by this situation. The Indiana kid is loopy, but these days there's no guarantee they'll win a bowl game at Michigan and the program also seems resigned to the idea our only chance vs. tOSU is that they're having a really, really down year.
Re: Mich QB's in the NFL
Don't forget that Harbaugh and Grbac were both multi-year starters in the NFL. Grbac also won a super bowl as the back-up to steve young just as griese won the SB backing up elway.
Anyone who is upset about Webber playing for the Pistons is an illogical moron. If you want a scapegoat for the basketball program sucking today, you don't look any farther than Bill Martin and Tommy Amaker.
Michigan QBs:
Of all the silly things to be futzing about. Collins is a career backup? Really? Is there a better job on the planet?
Every player who has started even one game at QB for Michigan since 1989 has stuck in the NFL for at least two years. I would wager that is the best record of any school at any position, ever. Are we really going to belittle that, too?
BRCE, your mention of Martin makes me ask an open question: is he a good AD? Or is he causing problems?
I picked a good weekend to avoid sports completely.
Ok, has recruiting DBs and Oline & said performance of DBs & Oline been fairly crappy over the last 5 years? yea. but that is more a function of very few 5* DB & OL in the midwest over the last 10-12 years than most anything else. that forces the program to look at guys from Louisiana, Wash, NJ, Tex, FL, Pa. i'm sure some kids look at the games we've lost. that's part of it, no doubt blue:
"the recruiting losses we've sustained so far have definitely been influenced by this situation.
"definitely?" is that what you mean though? because to me, it seems like you're assuming. unless, of course, you can actually speak to how each & every recruit *feels* about M wrt to other programs.
"these days there's no guarantee they'll win a bowl game at Michigan"
man, what can i tell ya? are there ever any guarantees? did Bo have any guarantees? does tressel have any guarantees? does a loss to USC & OSU really compare poorly to no bowl at all for Finch? hows that bowl streak working out for ND? i just don't think "2-8" or "no bowl win since 1994" plays to the kids alot. not when programs not named USC, OSU,Fla,Tex,LSU are barking it.
look, when we go up against USC for guys out west like Mays, or the DE from AZ, we're in a tough spot. we probably finish #2 to USC in all these cases....but so does EVERYONE who goes up against USC in recruiting. we lose out to USC,LSU *partly* because of big game performance, but mostly because they're kids form teh left coast or Lousiana and have a kid, or whatever. i'd guess we've lost ZERO guys to anyone other than USC, OSU, LSU, UF, Tex because of gameplans & "2-8." and the guys we lose to these programs are from...out west, Lous, ohio, fla & tex. shocking we lost them. Damn you carr!!!
also, the performance of the QBs, WRs & DL, RBs has been great over that period. I'm just saying that there are good aspects of the program under carr, too. he went after PA kids when PSU was down...and got alot of them. he grabbed mallet from Tex. hart from NY. MM from ohio. he's kept the top Mich guys in-state for like 5 years (since C Rodgers i believe).
i am also amused at how popular it is to rip on the NFL careers of navare, Collins, Dreisback, greise et al. They get paid for playing football in the NFL! many of these guys started for several games in their careers! they are the top 30-50 QBs on the planet. (yea, i just saw 3 USC Qbs up above...if you keep naming probowl guys, Miami OH, and SW Miss St has a better pedigree than anyone...look at a bigger sample size eg, "got drafted & paid in the NFL" ok). completely ignored is that Greise was a preferred walk-on and navarre was grant Bowman with a rocket for an arm when they got to M. because they don't make probowls or start every game int hte NFL, their development at M is completely dismissed.
finally, no one thinks any recruit cares about the 1901-1905 Yost teams. what they do care about is that every QB that has started a single game at M since 1990 got drafted & paid in the NFL. that and PT.
On the bright side, Tom Brady is apparently now dating Gisele Bunchden. Perhaps the coaching staff should start including Brady's "portfolio" in its pitch to all potential recruits. I know I'd be persuaded.
yea, the martin AD question is a good one. I thought he was doing great at 1st with the financial side & the academic center. the stadium renovations seems good too. and teh baseball/softball/crisler renovations are coming soon. but recently the directors cup has been 'meh' for M. they finished #2 2-3 years ago, but have really splipped since then.
Brady pwns the NFL and the world of supermodels. Listen up, boys, that's the pinnacle of the Michigan Man!
I can see the new recruiting video a la our "space, bitches" promo: "Super Bowls and supermodels: The Michigan Difference."
Finch's decision is certainly surprising, but he was always listed as a 'soft' commit, who was going to take his visits. You can never count your ducks before they hatch... let's see what happens on Feb 7th. I am sure there will be more surprises on the way.
"BRCE, your mention of Martin makes me ask an open question: is he a good AD, or is he causing problems?"
In his mind, his legacy will be almost completely tied to the stadium renovation project, so we'll have to wait and see how that turns out.
Right now, I don't think he's a good AD and that's in large part because he doesn't seem to think his job entails much more than the renovation or the dollars and cents aspect to management.
He blew it with Amaker. I gave him credit for going after Pitino, but it didn't happen and his safety choice has been a huge bust. Amaker should have been fired last year and if he isn't when they don't make the tournament, than he has to be considered a bad AD at this point. He would be sending the message loud and clear that he's here to put the department in the black and renovate a stadium, not to fire a buddy and hire a new coach for the second-largest athletic program on campus.
Although Amaker has done decent in recruiting considering the lack of on-court success, Martin doesn't help matters there by continuing to delay the new basketball facilities.
I'm so sick of hearing about Webber and Ed Martin. It was a decade and a half ago, people -- GET OVER IT. If we had a good floor coach and an AD who put more of a priority on the program, that would be in the rear view mirror where it should be. It hampered us for a long time, but it is no longer an excuse.
good points, but judging the AD or a coach based on a *single* metric (make the tourney, beat OSU, etc) sets a bad precedent, imo.
Martin was hired for one reason, to get Michigan athletics out of the red. I don't see him as anyone who really cares about any aspect unless Michigan falls into the red.
He is doing his job, because he keeps hiking up ticket prices, but games sell out, so why would he make an expensive change to coaching staffs? Remember firing a coach would require a buy out on the contract. And hiring a new coach would require a high salary negotiation.
Thats why Martin says "Lloyd is the best" and "Tommy is doing the best he can". Martin has 0 accountability as well. I just don't think the administration seems to put alot of premium on improving our football and basketball teams. They just are focuses on making some dollars.
mom, is that why Martin built the Academic Center...to make $$$? it was very telling that the AC was the 1st project under his watch (besides directly bringing the dept out of the red).
The Atheletic dept is a non-profit, people. jesus, they don't get more stock options or bonus $$$ if the dept is X million in the black. the renovations to the football stadium, ticket licences, etc. ensure the viability of the dept to support 25 nationally competitive teams at 100% scholarships. do you think carr and the staff pay out-of-pocket for trips to AZ to recruit Branch? who the hell pays for the hotel rooms of 130 people in LA for the RB? who paid for the Jung champions ctr that hosts all the recruits on their official visits? to suggest that the AD just sees dollar signs is ludacrus (sp). he sees the continued success of 25 sports over the next *50 years* being dependant upon sound financial framework.
perhaps we could have put it all on the credit card, like OSU has done for the last 10 years?
I've worked with Non-Profit organizations before. And even they need to increase revenue to meet a budget. The point is, Martin was brought in to make sure Michigan is not spending more than it is bringing in.
So yes Michigan paid for the RB trip and recruiting trips as do all other athletic departments, those are their functions. The point for Martin was to increase revenue so that Michigan is able to pay for all that without going into the red. That was his first priority. So he does not care as much on field results as long as they are not embarrassing. He is concerned with money right now.
I have changed my name from Meeechigan Dan to Meeechigan Fred because I cannot continue to share even a portion of my name with plain old Dan...the risk of being addressed "Dan" or being lumped in with any phrase or idea emanating from "Dan" is so troubling as to demand this measure. Plain old Dan's annoying sanctimonious style - and not mildly annoying, but that deep toothache penetrating annoying, like a tantrumy kid on a plane who kicks and hits the back of your seat for four hours - is straight from the Gordon Gee school of "Athletics in Perspective: Integrating Losing into an Otherwise Rich Cultural Life" and must be shunned at all costs. Memo to "Dan": here's a single metric for you - WINNING. Sports isn't graded on a curve. WIN. Is that clear? If Amaker misses the tournament, whack 'im. If Carr loses to OSU again, to the pasture with him...give him a Rolex and a desk if you want. We won't turn into Miami. If you dislike that metric, root for Vanderbilt.
Marzz: I bet you followed up those >>> with some of the other arrows. Those open html tags and since you never ended it, the rest of your comment went to comment heaven. moral of story: don't use greater than/less than on the web.
That was me, BTW.
This is the feeling I get from Martin: I feel like he's cool with building nice buildings (for the record, I vehemently dislike the drawings of the stadium rebuild -- particularly the views from inside the stadium) and keeping the major programs just good enough to pay the bills. It doesn't seem to me like he really has a drive to be the best when it comes to the on-field product.
And what is the antidote for not winning at the highest level? Don't measure success by a *single* Neandethalish metric. Note: winning is not incompatible with class and tradition.
Well, it's probably for the best that an evil kid like Finch went to Indiana anyway. We all know he simply would've shown up at Michigan and failed to execute properly just so he could embarrass poor Lloyd and the rest of the defenseless coaching staff on national TV.
You were the guy I told to root for MSU?? Wow, how cool. Am I consistent or what?
Stop flaming each other, Dans.
I bet when UM is pasting IU 48-12. Finch will look over at the michigan sideline and wonder what might have been. This guy would have been a starter, possibly even as a freshman. I just don't understand - who would go to a school that consistantly looses this much? Not to mention I have an inside scoop on all the turmoil going on with the AD. What a mess. Good luck sucker.
"It doesn't seem to me like he really has a drive to be the best when it comes to the on-field product."
That's the exact impression I get and it's why I'm not a big fan of his.
truce
Commenting by HaloScan
