I can't agree with you more about Petway, Brian. When I saw the winged helmet, I couldn't help but be impressed with his display of loyalty to U of M.
Condi & Tommy are in the same boat. Insofar,to say,neither one has any accomplishmment to their credit...GO BLUE BABY!
I would like to respond to your condeleeza/tommy haiku with an ultra-minimalist haiku of my own:
best
haiku
ever.
All the winged helmet hairdos I've seen involved hair existing as what would be the maize stripes and wings, and shaving off the "blue" in between. Petway's clever inversion has further subtlties -- note there are three levels of hair, and the edging on the wings (for contrast) is the same depth as the block M outline.
Petway is my rough basketball equivalent to Steve Breaston: Hell of a lot of fun to watch, has a chance to absolutely light things up every time he touches the ball, and we probably won't see him play again.
The difference is, my neighbors never got pissed at Breaston for parking his Escalade in their driveway as he briefly crashed our house party.
Also, that tie was photoshopped on to Tommy, right?
Good guy, runs a clean program. If these are anybody's top two reasons to keep a coach, something is missing. Sure, those things are important, but you can hire somebody who does those same things while actually improving his collection of basketball players at the same time. The lack of improvement among the players is what gets me, I didn't see anyone get better under Amaker, save for maybe Graham Brown. I agree with Brian, he should go, not because he didn't reach an NCAA tournament (well, partly, but my views wouldn't have changed if say, we scored 3 more points saturday and possibly went dancing), but because Amaker has produced six years of nearly unwatchable, sloppy basketball, while developing no coherent style identity. Michigan can do better, and its time for a change.
What a fantastic 'do from Petway.
I really feel for these kids. Amaker failed this graduating class, which should have been gearing up for their second or even third NCAA tourney run. Instead, their shots at glory are probably going to come in places like Ankara or Tel Aviv.
Next year is going to be miserable regardless of who is coaching, but the Beast Who Shall Not Be Named from the 'Freep seems to think that Tommy's got at least two more years. That's discouraging.
I would agree with almost everything here. but,
1) " A 2003 postseason ban robbed Michigan of another NIT bid, most likely,..."
10-6 B10 record that year (18 overall i think?) would have put them in the tourney.
2)0-6: 1st year, no talent, expunged roster. 2nd year sanctions. 3rd year NIT title w/ youngest team in B10. 4th year injuries. to me, it's not 0-6. we didn't count those 4 years against him then, but we do now in sum? that's revisionist history. imo, it's 0-2 the last 2 years (plus the other recruiting stuff). these were years that are 10-6 B10 minimum expectation years. *contend* for the B10 title. get to the tourney. there are NO available excuses these last 2 years. and they turned out to be less than worst case scenario years record wise.
3)"Many of Amaker's (recruiting)problems are of his own making." was the hairston/crawford fiasco of his own making? i don't follow basketball recruiting as much, so tory J was on TA... but beverly & Horford? from what i've heard, many of these recruiting losses were not completely on TAs shoulders.
i don't know...these 3 points are not MAJOR issues within the post (again I agree with all but ~ 30 words), but I feel like theres a bit of revisionist history going on here.
finally, while I agree with the program's image bullet, the arguement that the program is no better now than when TA arrived is absolutely false, imo (not that brian is saying this, but others have). it may be the bare minimum of expectations, sure. but avery queen, josh moore, and 11-18? that's BE, and it's not like that anymore. it's the cleanest program in the country. the guys are not NBA level guys, but are the best student-athletes one can ask for in college basketball (outside of NW/princeton/Penn). 4 year guys who get degrees and represent the school VERY well. in today' CBB, that is to be commended, not dismissed.
finally, I do think TA should go. it's an obvious conclusion to make. and I do think that a new coach would get this team to the tourney 3/4 years or so, just not 90& of the coaches in the NCAA today. I just think it's more about recruiting issues w/ TA rather than motion offense/player development. he can recruit with PT to offer: Horton/Harris/D Sims/Legion classes. but who can't? it's the other classes that crapped out. it's the PG recruting that's crapped out. and the way the '08 class is shaping up, it will be more of the same: 2 classes of decent quality + 2 classes of junk. if TA couldn't get to the tourney in the past with this recipe, why expect anything different in the future?
What makes this an M sports year to forget is we are one 3rd period goal away from being swept in the 3 major men's sports (fball, bball, hockey) by tOSU. UGH
To me, there have been 2 frustrating things about this year, entirely within Amaker's control which should result in his ouster -
1. Nonconference schedule - utterly atrocious. I specifically remember my buddy over xmas break asking me if I wanted to go to the Army game. I said, excuse me, did you say Army? They have a team? Most coaches who have 4 seniors schedule-up because (theoretically) they should have a decent shot to win & thereby impress the Committee. Instead, we were subjected to a home schedule no one wanted to see, ergo they couldn't draw flies.
2. Player (lack of) development. I can't think of 1 player under Amaker who improved significantly frosh-senior. Did Petway develop any offensive game beyond dunks? Is Abram still on a milk carton? Did the frequency of Courtney Sims making you want to smash your tv diminish? Meanwhile Izzo has turned Raymar Morgan from slug to stud in 1 year.
The Alex Legion comments about how he loves Amaker gives me pause....but if you bring in a coach who'll get you to the tourneyment, I guarantee he'll love that guy just as much.
Bill Martin will us give the litany of excuses why he has retained Amaker, but he has no answers for those 2 points.
Rob, see I completely disagree with your points (although in both cases we come to the same conclusion-and that's probably a big indictment on TA's ability i suppose). scheduling is what it is these days. outside of Uconn/IU/OSU/Duke/UNC/UK/, the recipe for OOC scheduling is 3-4 big games + fill up your home court sched. to get to 20 wins. MSU went nuts w/ that sched. ~2-3 years ago and got screwed: they went 0-6 vs the top 15, did well in the B10 (11-5?) and they got an 8 seed for it i think. w/o looking, i'd say MSU's sched ~ the same as ours. same with ill, Wisc, Pur, etc.
Player development...considering that Harris had to play 1/2 his carrer at PG, he improved quite a bit, imo. same with Horton since he had to play PG his whole career (except for that 1st year). he was a 6-1 scoring guard that developed into a solid B10 level PG. I'd say that petway & sims just peaked early. they are just one-dimensional players. Abrahm had injuries for 2-3 of his 5 years. sure, I'd bet Izzo would have gotten more from some of these guys, but did Paul Davis overachive under izzo? how about Chris Hill & (that 6-3 guy who was big time-NBA out of HS, but stayed 4 years and was only good- i forget his name). even HoF coaches have guys who underachive.
No matter whose fault the recruiting misses (Crawford, Horford, Hairston, Beverly) are, no matter if the reason he missed the tournament was his fault 2 or 6 times, no matter if the facilities are to blame, the bottom line is that the man is not a good basketball coach.
He's had talented players (by rivals' *s) and had them for 4 years. And they never get better and the team never looks MORE poised with older players than it did with younger players.
I disagree that the Ohio State game was well coached. Michigan played their hearts out. But at the end of the game when OSU was going on their run, Michigan looked completely scared and completely lost. They couldn't run a play that was assured to get them to the foul-line or an easy look. They had no confidence or knowledge of what to do to score.
And that is on Amaker's shoulders. These are juniors and seniors who have been running his "offense" for 3 and 4 years and when it comes time to make a play, they look like they don't know what they're doing or have no confidence to succeed. That's a damnable offense for a head coach.
Amaker must go. Unless Michigan is satisfied with being the Kings of the NIT. Which very well may be the case.
Dan - valid points. Re: scheduling, I actually was thinking of the Sparty schedule from a few years ago where they had a lot of big games and lost them all.....but you can argue that playing tough teams made them tougher for conference play. I think this year that UM-MSU are pretty much equal, they have an almost identical record, both suck on the road, yet only MSU is considered a near-lock for the NCAAs. Basically because they beat Texas. You don't give yourself a shot to be in the conversation if you schedule Delaware State. True, they did schedule UCLA & Georgetown, but that limited their chance for success.
Even if they make the tourney and get bounced in the 1st round, what does it all mean in the end - nothing. I personally don't feel like the program is building - next year will be a young team, and not tOSU quality young talent. This year was supposed to be TA's best year, what they've been building up to for the last 4-5 years and if your best year is being a bubble team, at best, then that should be an unacceptable standard
I'm also going to have to disagree about the game being well coached. How the hell do you not tell them to get the ball down low every play the last two minutes? Oden had four fouls and was either going to back off and let us score, or he was going to foul out.
As an aside, that kid isn't ready to play defense in the NBA. If he is smart, he will stick around another year and learn to control his body around the basket. He is playing the ball too much and going for the block. If he was cabable of using his superior size, which he won't have in the NBA, I would be even more impressed with him.
I don't know enough about basketball strategery as far as the action on the floor goes to condemn Amaker. However, I notice subtle things tha the fails to either pick up on or tell the players. It killed me at the end of the OSU game that we had 2 fouls to give and a slim lead and we blew both of them on transition/breakaway shooting fouls instead of fouling the shooter on the floor. This cost us some points and is one of those things that always killed me about Amaker. I can't tell him how to run pick and rolls or full court press, but it seems like he misses things like when to call a TO to stem a run by the opponent (he always seems late on this) or the fact that he often seems to rotate players too much for them to get into the game (although this let up towards the end of the season).
I really think it is too bad that we can't keep him on as an assistant. Honestly I think we play amazing defense with Amaker. Granted it doesn't always look pretty but somehow the games are always low-scoring.
Also that was the most intense game I have seen at Crisler in a little while. But as soon as CSims missed that dunk the place just DIED. It was a horribly tragic yet fitting ending (hopefully)to the TA era.
Throughout the game on Saturday, I periodically looked over at my friend as said, "Who *are* these guys? Surely, this can't actually be the 2006-2007 Michigan's men's basketball team?" But with a couple of minutes left in the game, I realized that they were just putting me on because every one of them went into complete brain-lock. Total poured-liquid-nitrogen-into-their-skulls brain-lock.
Which highlights one of the major shortcomings of the Amaker era: poor execution. This for me, more than anything, is damning. You can list out all the excuses you want (facilities, poor recruiting, sanctions, whatever), but when the team can't execute properly, you have a major problem. And let me be clear, by "execute" I don't mean "win" or "dominate" or something like that. I mean: "guards do not run into each other" and "offense is something other than standing around waiting for Dion Harris to jack it up with 1 second left on the clock" and "big men post up on the block not half a dozen feet away".
I don't really care that the team isn't composed of former Mr. Basketballs out for a light workout in the Final Four before putting on a New York Knicks hat and posing with David Stern. I just want them to play good, smart basketball, and they don't. And that's why I've finally decided that it's bye-bye time for Tommy. This team had four very experienced seniors but frequently looked like it was entirely composed of freshmen, milling around and making mistake after mistake. I don't see any sign that this is going to change. It's time to hang up the Turtleneck.
Matt, I had the opposite reaction about Oden's 4th foul. There was no way the refs were going to hit him again unless he absolutely mugged Sims, based on each player's reputation (Sims=soft, Oden=dominant). I think we went inside twice more and they both ended badly.
As for TA, let's be real: he sucks at running a major basketball program. His recruiting is not good, his player development is laughable and his in-game coaching is nonexistant. It's been time for him to go for two years now, so it nearly brings me to tears when I hear that Martin's going to give him at least one more year.
To his defense TA is a better coach than brian ellerbe.
But then again who isn't?
When L-ER-B got fired everyone was calling for his head, and eventually the AD had to deliver the pink slip.
This could be a very similar situation.
As UM fans should we be proud that we are consistantly better than Purdue, PSU Minnie and NW in b-ball.
It seems like the unversity is content with being a middle of the road hoops program.
As long as the football team is generating $$$ thats all Bill Martin cares about.
Via Bracketology on ESPN:
We play Minnesota on the 8th and if we win that game, the Buckeyes on the 9th. Although HIGHLY improbable... with two wins in the big ten tourney, would we be in?!
LAST FOUR IN
Purdue
Illinois
Old Dominion
Missouri State
LAST FOUR OUT
Kansas State
West Virginia
Massachusetts
Drexel
NEXT FOUR OUT
Florida State
Michigan
Mississippi State
Mississippi
P.S. Brent Petway played his heart out vs. OSU. Diving on the floor for loose balls, fully focused at the line in crunch time, and awesome down low with his (limited) post moves. However, Courtney Sims.... UGH!
hey- does anyone remember the days when a 20W B10 team was a stone cold LOCK to make the tourney? now, not so much...what happened? i know the OOC wins are meek at best, but still. 20 wins & 8-8 in 1995 = 8 seed. a more in-depth (read: mgoblog-level) analysis is warranted here, imo. since the tourney went to 64, how many B10 & other power conf teams DIDN'T get there w/ 20 wins? i bet it's a linear fcn of time, just based on "feel" - whatever that means.
Maybe I should have said that driving the lane would have been a good idea in the last two minutes. Anything to either get the foul on Oden or get a rather easy basket. I was watching the game with my dad, and he kept laughing every time Harris made an improbably long 3. I told him, "He has to shoot out there, Michigan doesn't know about the area five feet away from the basket, so everything gets pushed out that far."
I will say this in Amaker's defense. He really does coach a good to damn good defense. Sadly, his offensive schemes are either shitty or non-existant.
Please let him be gone after the NIT.
matt, we made have had this conversation before, but I stll say having a very good PG would fix ~ 75% of the offensive issues this team has had. really, if ya think about it, 20 wins 3/4 years isn't too bad if you consider that they haven't had a true PG in any of those years. here's the optimist in me: kelvin Grady & Jarret Smith will save us next year. 20 wins again. cocain's a hell of a drug!
The problem is that if Michigan beats OSU they'll either be up against Purdue or Iowa, both of those teams are on the bubble, and likely would be favored ahead of Michigan if they were to beat the Wolverines in the Semis. I really think because of the way the Big 10 tourney lines up, and the fact that there are more than 2 or 3 teams nationally ahead of Michigan on the bubble, that they have to get to the finals to get in.
Having a PG that can shoot and distribute the ball solves 75% of EVERYTHING. Just look at MD: From Steve Blake to NIT to Greivis Vasquez.
case in point:
of the top 10 assist leaders in the Big Ten, Dion has the 2nd WORST assist to turnover ratio.
i.e. nobody is competently distributing the ball.
oh and if someone could shoot the 3, we'd be in good shape.
I think the twenty win team from a power conference that doesn't make it would see their spot taken by an emerging mid-major these days. Considering the success of teams like Gonzaga, Butler, SIU, and George Mason in the tournament, I see no reason why this trend should reverse itself, especially when power conference teams often avoid scheduling them.
How about -zero- player development? Daniel Horton was the same basketball player on senior day as he was as a freshman. Lester Abram has in fact regressed. Courtney Sims is just as clueless as ever. Petway has somewhat gotten a clue on defense, but is still useless for anything but the dunk on offense.
And, pray tell, why is our bench half full of guys that haven't a prayer of seeing anything but 2 minutes of garbage time over the course of their entire career? Honestly. Has Phil DeVries ever removed his warmups? And don't tell me this Zack Gibson guy is going to be anything but Diet Courtney Sims. Let's put it this way- he weighs 10 pounds more than Ron Coleman does- and he's 4 inches taller. Skinny white guy center?
Our program is full of guys that either couldn't hack it elsewhere, or don't have a prayer of playing anywhere else. Why? Because we can't -get- anybody else. Gotta fill the roster with walk-ons when you're coming up empty on recruits and have to resort to signing guys like Reed Baker without even having seen them play.
It's time, Tommy. You can't recruit a roster full of big-name players with past rosters full of guys who never made the NBA and guarantees of #1 seeds- in the NIT...
Actually, we're 2nd in the Big Ten in 3-pct. We suck at turnovers and twos, which speaks to the point guard thing...
http://bigtenwonk.blogspot.com/2...ts-
offense.html
This thread has likely run its course, but as an OSU fan, I was wondering if someone could explain the enigma of Brent Petway to me...The guy has as much God-given athleticism as anyone who has ever played in the NBA. He also seems to have a solid head, team spirit and energy (loved the 'do). I don't see how one could fault Amaker for his lack of development, if Petway put in half the time in the gym as the average stud player down at the Y, he'd be an NBA lottery pick. It just seems weird to have that ability and never develop a shot to make tht happen. If he didn't have the desire to do it for the millions upon millions he could have gotten, it doesn't seem Amaker could do anything about it.
he's just not an NBA level guy. a 75in vertical who can dunk isn't a lottery pick. he is a shot blocker who has learned under TA to play solid position D. there was very little offensive development (some: i saw him score w/o dunking several times this year, which simply didn't happen his 1st year). with his size & strength, he'd need Mchale type offensive moves to get drafted.
Aram, I'm 180 from you re: player development. citing 2-3 guys as not overachieving doesn't hold water.
how did izzo do with torbort, Hill, and Davis re: player development?
how about Boeheim with most of his guys?
does anyone at duke develope into NBA guys? not many. also their PG has been pretty bad in his career @ duke.
i just think the guys we get are not NBA level guys. some reach
thir ceiling sooner than later. some were overrated coming in. my point is every coach has guys that over (Grahm Brown)& underachieve (C sims). most however, just play the way they are capable of (petway, hunter, Harris, horton, etc). did brian mention development?- that seems conspicuously absent in this post. i wonder what his opinion is.
As for Torbert, Hill (first time I am hearing Chris Hill was an NBA prospect out of High School) and Davis I think Izzo developed them into a Final Four team.
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