I don't remember which thread or who was discussing this the other day, but I have emailed Wolverine Worldwide (the boot manufacturers) inquiring about a Wolverine Boot Costume. If it is found, I'm hoping
1) they will provide it as to me for free as free advertising
2) it will be worn at a basketball or hockey game this year.
I'll keep everyone posted.
LSU fans think he's gone gone gone and are ok with it: I'd be happier if they were upset? Why aren't they upset the coach of their No. 1 team is gone?
i hate howie. this video pisses me off.
http://sports.espn.go.com/
broadb...egoryId=2564308
Does anyone know of any LSU football blogs that are even 50% of what Mgoblog is? I would like to check in and see what they are saying down there. I checked the blog poll, but none are affiliated with LSU. Thanks.
Brian, I had not started reading this blog until someone showed it to me in August. But after your reaction to "The Horror," I've been hooked.
This is my primary source of M football analysis and your prediction of Lloyd's retirement only continues to legitimize you as a reputable source.
Keep up the good work!
oops wrong link
http://sports.espn.go.com/
broadb...egoryId=2564308
I enjoyed "Herbie sings The Victors in the shower."
That's right, ESPN--it's "The Victors," not "The Victers" or "Hail to the Victors." Also, there is no "go blue!" after singing "...champions of the west." I hate when people do that--grrr.
Re: LSU's 3 options in dealing with Les, specifically option #1, "Pulling a Bo."
How did that work out for Michigan? :]
best feel for tiger fans is at tigerdroppings.com... the rant.
We don't want Les to leave, but understand why he would leave. It's not him leaving for a better program, just leaving to "go home to mama" He's never hidden his love for Michigan. If your AD wants him, he's your coach.
We just want to make sure we finish the job and do what our team should do... become the first team to win a 2nd BCS national championship.
Am I the only one who thinks that Miles is not a coaching genius who will certainly lead UM back to national respectability? He seems to have a world of talent at LSU but manages to lose at least two games a year. And let's not forget that in their only meeting (Alamo Bowl following the '04 season), Tressel and OSU absolutely handed Miles and Oklahoma State their shirts, 33-7.
Miles might do well at LSU, but unless your program begins to recruit the players (not just a couple of marquee players that choke), develop those players, and fire your defensive coordinator, you're going to continue to be a mediocre team.
"He seems to have a world of talent at LSU but manages to lose at least two games a year."
I'll skip the obvious, in the SEC we play more than one tough conference game a year and go year by year.
'05... 2 losses.. coach of the year. Getting LSU through the hurricane. The first loss was LSU players absolutely worn down. QB Jamacus russel had 15 people living in his 2 bedroom apartment, including fats domino... the 2nd loss was in the SECCG and was the 12th straight week LSU played a game.
'06... Losing to a Florida team that won the NC on the road is not a bad thing. We didn't get embarassed 41-14. The other loss was a road loss to Auburn... another good team, got hosed with some calls, but lost.
'07... one ugly 3OT loss. We'll win it all, what more do you want from a coach?
Tigerfan - thanks.
Well, Tigerfan, can't ask much more from a coach. Except to come back and coach at Michigan.
antone else concearned as I am about this years recruiting class? what do you all think about who will be staying and who will leave from this recruiting class we currently have? it sucks to hear about Saddler and Hale. does anyone think will be able to get any more players to commit that we currently have targeted now? anyone think our class will be top ten in we get Miles? Let hear some opinions. GO BLUE!
True or false: Brian Kelly was basically run out of central michigan and two, there are players up there of his that are STILL in jail. just askin'
"There isn't a person alive other than Kige Ramsey who thinks Miles won't crawl to Ann Arbor over broken glass and bullet ants if he's offered the job."
Not true! Pete Fiutak, that fine specimen of a journalist over at CFN, vehemently says that Miles will NOT go to Michigan. His reasoning seems full of holes and inconsistencies, but that's true of CFN as a whole.
Is it breaking news that CFN is a terrible publication? nope, but here's the link anyway.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/703253.html
sorry, thats supposed to be "anyone else" and "if we get Miles"
Tigerfan,
Your '05 excuse of playing 12 weeks in a row? That happens every year in the Big Ten, so if Miles can't get his players ready for it, he'll have trouble here.
Your '06 excuses? Sorry, but two losses are two losses.
Your '07 excuse? What exactly is UK's current ranking again?
As for the rest of this year, I find your optimism more than a bit unfounded, considering the fact that you've struggled mightily with subpar teams (e.g., Alabama, who showed just how tough they are by losing to UL-Monroe Saturday). Finally, to answer your question of what more do I want from a team, how about a season with less than two losses? Then you won't have to waste your time making up pathetic excuses for why LSU can't get it done on the field.
Not really sure why people down there dont like Les....like in any fan base, there is a contigent that feels they should never lose a game.....wonder if chocking vs Tenn in '05--despite the trying circumstances--and only scoring 3 vs Auburn last year has anything to do with it? Or playing awful vs UGA in '05 SEC title game.....plus they do like to gamble on football down there, well everywhere really:), and I know LSU has not been good vs the spread this year in their conference games.....the cliche about southern football is not did you win, but did you cover the spread?
One LSU fan I talk with said until you win at least an SEC title, there will be doubters.....remember, he has not even done that.....but he also said, they cant wait for Les to leave because there is a thought that LSU would then hire Steve Spurrier?!?!?!
This will probably get me burned here, but, gee, if Spurrier is available, I say we give him a look....I dont think we would have a problem with just throwing rock time and time again with the Head Ball Coach at the helm. What kind of ride would that be!!!
I don't think Lloyd announcing his retirement now precludes Miles from becoming our next coach (I think he will be our coach), but I also don't agree that the fact that the Michigan job is officially open won't be a distraction to Miles or his players.
If a reporter asks him if he's going to be the coach of LSU next year and he brushes off the question without a definitive answer, it's him pretty much saying he's as good as gone. If I were an LSU fan, I'd certainly understand why he wanted to return to Michigan, but I would also be upset that there was something else on his mind (even if it occupied just a small percentage of it) during a national championship chase. Having never been a college football player, I obviously have no idea what I'm talking about (which is usually the case), but I'd imagine if I were a player I'd be a little annoyed as well. I honestly feel bad for his players in this situation.
Like I said, I don't think Carr's announcement today indicates that Miles will or won't be the coach, I just don't think you can pooh pooh the idea that the ongoing talk about Miles to Michigan is going to be a distraction.
Pete Fiutak really pissed me off with "another coach losing to Ohio State every year..." near the end. @$$.
Is Anonymous Subcommandante Wayne?
Anon - if you don't want Miles based upon his record in each of the last three years (5 losses total!), who could you possibly want to coach the football team? LSU has outperformed Michigan in two of the last three years (last year was a push, although they certainly finished stronger than we did).
I'm pretty sure Fielding Yost isn't available.
fiutak writes a "michigan sucks" column every week. it's tired and old news
what he thinks of michigan doesnt matter. its what les thinks that matters. and we all know the answer to that.
I don't want Spurrier. I don't want Meyer, I don't even think I want Stoops. I want stability. I want someone who's gonna stick around. Spurrier will leave after a bad season and the heat gets turned up. Same with Meyer or maybe Stoops. A guy like Miles, you probably don't have to worry about that. he's worked forever to get *here*.
A recruiting question:
Is there any chance that a prosepctive recruit (or two) would follow the new coach (whoever he is) to Michigan? Could there be a kid who very much likes Les Miles and decided to follow him to ann arbor? Does that ever happen?
Can we put Fiutak and Wetzel on a deserted island? Or maybe a satellite to no-longer-a-planet Pluto? I hate those guys. Douchebags.
yes that happens on occasion
Anon @ 4:36-
You make it sound like LSU has hands-down more talent than anyone in the country. I actually think that USC has much more talent than LSU. Since the start of the 05 season they both have 5 losses. So let's settle down on the LSU can't get it done on the field talk. I personally don't think that Miles is that great of a coach. But he does bring in top notch coordinators which seems to be a huge factor in a program's success.
Jeez, Brian, any suggestion that Michigan should consciously and actively tamper with and distract Les Miles in the middle of his title run would be classless and disgraceful.
Michigan needs to:
1. Stay mum.
2. Sit tight.
3. Be patient.
4. Root for Les to win the MNC.
5. Hire his ass on January 8th.
6. Let 'er rip!!
The ol ball coach has stated that he will only coach in the south, so there is no chance of him replacing Carr.
FWIW, The "Alamo at best" scenario was written before Penn State lost.
We should all be praying that Miles wins the national championship. That's recruiting gold.
Is that a referee standing between the O-line and D-line? I think I must not be seeing the pic correctly.
@samsoccer7: You're right about stability.....Spurrier and Lloyd are about the same age, so it would not be a long term hire....hypothetically, we'd be looking for another coach in a few years after his retirement....as for bolting after a bad season, did you not see him at Florida? There would be no such thing as a bad season.....but thats not to say that after one cold autumn, he jumps to take a job somewhere down south, for example.
With Les Miles, we get somebody who would be working at his dream job and not on the lookout for a better position.....and that goes a long way in my book too.....the Spurrier thing is just what LSU folks feel is going to happen, which is why there's a level of excitement that Les might be leaving....i dont even know that he's available, but if he is and Michigan conducts a true national search, they would be follish not to even consider him.
To further clarify: Michigan putting Miles on the spot by making a public overture to him DURING his active season is about the only thing I can think of that would piss him off so much that he would probably turn us down.
He's trying to win a goddamn national title! Michigan better not stick their nose into his business right now and fuck that up. I know I would be livid if I were him.
apologies for the rational Michigan fans for what's about to follow.
again, '05 hurricane... he gets a pass, for only finishing 5th in the nation. Help me out, I couldn't find Michigan in that poll.
06' no excuess, lost two and finished 3rd in the nation. If we beat Auburn on the road we're playing a rematch with Florida to see how spanks Ohio State. Again, 3rd in the Nation, and he's not a good enough coach for you?
07' One bad loss... It's not a loss to appy state, but it's a loss. He's still got his team at #1. Where's Michigan again... having trouble finding them in the top 25.
The guys' lost 5 games in the last 3 years Playing in the toughest conference in college football. You looking for a coach with a better record than that? It's not Carrol and USC, not Stoops at OU, not Brown at Texas, and certainly not Carr at UM.
Please don't hire him as your coach.
Gnarls,
To answer your question, I think Kelly is a much better coach than Miles. I think Miles will get the job, however, b/c right now everyone's buying his stock. But in a few years, I think UM will be very disappointed.
Anon 4:56, I have the same exact feeling.
Winning % since 2005:
OSU 0.891892 (sigh)
WVU 0.885714
LSU 0.864865
TEX 0.864865
USC 0.861111
FLA 0.810811
MICH 0.702703
I'd say Les is doing alright.
Tigerfan,
UM needs someone who can actually beat Tressel. You still haven't responded to the point that Tressel handed Miles his shirt, to the tune of 33-7 in their only matchup.
so is it fair to say than, bsb, that despite some trying weeks ahead recruiting wise, things will probably be a wash? Or is that wishful thinking?
I ask, because despite being a die hard fan for a long time, I have never followed recruiting closely, until I started reading Brian's arguements here about recruiting grades being a good indicator of a player's future success. And before I get swept up in the reasonable seeming concern, I want to know exactly what it is we are dealing with.
Its remarkable how lucky we are to have had such great coaching continutiy, that I could be a Michigan fan for most of almost 30 years on earth and not really have much of an idea about how a coaching change effects recruiting.
@ goblue1
LSU doesn't currently have any commits who were high on Michigan except Karnell Hatcher. Last I knew, cornerback Robby Green was still considering LSU, so there's potential for a couple players.
To answer your question, I think Kelly is a much better coach than Miles.
Well that's certainly fair. I just don't think pointing to his record at LSU is a good basis for thinking that Miles isn't a successful coach. As Tigerfan has pointed out, he's been pretty successful down there thus far.
why will UM be "disapointed" in a few years with miles?
Tressel's talent vs. Okie St. is an incredible difference Anon. Put that into perspective please.
Also, as for LSU finishing stronger than we did last year...everyone finishes stronger when they play Notre Dame in a bowl game in the past decade or so. Put that into perspective too.
He beat Miles when Miles was at Ok State. It's not a power house. They get OU's leftovers, but Miles did recuit well there and beat OU twice. Are you going to take one head to head matchup with to not equal teams and compare?
Anon 4:58,
Gee, do you think the fact that Miles had Oklahoma State level talent had anything to do with that?
Give Miles Michigan-level talent and he's going to hand the Buckeyes their asses on a plate.
In fact, I really hope Ohio State somehow gets into the MNC game this year and gets their asses handed to them. AGAIN.
Tigerfan,
Don't discount the possibility that we have OSU/MSU trolls here passing themselves off as Michigan fans. Undoubtedly, said OSU trolls are concerned that they'll lose the upper hand they currently hold. MSU trolls are just MSU trolls. You already know about their complex, I'm sure. No reasonable Michigan fan can denigrate Miles record.
I, for one, appreciate your thoughts. Please, keep them coming!
rainking - Eventually a "hot" coach will start to settle. If he's known so much for his coordinators and he's not actually a good coach, who knows where the direction of that team goes. If Brian Kelly is indeed a better coach (and IMO he is), coordinators can do whatever and move on to get other jobs etc, but we'll still have him and he knows wtf he's doing. I think it's always better to have the better head coach than a CEO type coach.
kgh10, serious question: What about Brian Kelly makes you think he's a better coach than Miles? Because I just can't see that at all.
Thanks GutierrezForHeisman.
Some of you guys should check out Tigerdroppings. Lots of good college football fans on their from lots of schools. They ban almost no one. (You'd have to try really hard) Most people actually like other opinions and Michigan guys would answer lots of questions right now.
Having sat through enough things supposedly called football games this year, that has to be a photoshopped image of our offensive line....
Tiger Fan,
When I listed those losses, that was not to critize Les....just to provide perspective as to why people down there might be disappointed in him......he's on his way to having as many 2 or less loss seasons in the history of LSU than, well, any other coach you've had....and he's done it in the only seasons he's been there.....its been a head scratcher to me, why some people cant wait to see him go.....some of the losses have been heart breaking in how they went down; we up here have a hard time letting go of those even as years go by, so people down there are still bitching probably about getting smacked by UGA in '05 SEC title game----you know, Saban would not have lost....or Spurrier never lost to stinking Georgia..what do you expect out of a guy that looks like Forrest Gump.....that kind of crap; you know talk radio drivel that never really dies out.
Of course, people forget things.....like someone above pointing out that Saban actually lost to UAB while at LSU.....but when you only score a field goal vs. Auburn, people bitch, "well that never would have happened if so and so was here." I would submit that the folks who want Less out of LSU are the ones who should be careful what they wish for, not us!!
Now, talk to me about Spurrier....that LSU guy I talk with has been saying all along, that LSU would just hire him and thats why he hopes Miles leaves.....is that just wishful thinking, or is that a real possibility down there? If so, that alone should excite you, or at least mitigate any fears you have of Miles leaving Baton Rouge.
You would have traded your precious sleeves for something to cheer about on saturday, wouldn't cha?
we don't need no stinking sleeves, and with arms like gholston's why would we ever want ot cover 'em up-jeez you michiganders are clueless
Most fans want Les to stay, but it's almost a foregone conclusion that he's gone. You're reading some sour grapes, and some people just dealing with the fact they need a new coach.
Spurrier is a real possibility. He wants to stay a CFB in the South, he want a program he can win at, and he would still get a chance to play Florida every year. That's about as far as it goes. A lot of people think we'd be unstoppable with our talent at WR and the OBC running the offense. His age is the only concern.
Gruden has also been mentioned as someone that wants a college job in the south if he's ousted at Tampa. There really is no front runner to replace Miles right now... the usual names get thrown about (Rich Rod, Tubby, Petrino), but no one knows right now except Skip Bertman (our AD and legendary baseball coach)
We are -60 days into the Les Miles era, and people are already second guessing, saying he isn't good enough, and being downright apocalyptic about the future.
Gotta love Michigan.
Also, Fire Joe Morgan and Gritty Eckstein make my day.
Well yeah ... as long as we're succeeding in Iraq, the NYTimes can't get enough of non-stories at home. "You mean we'd have to report that another Baghdad neighborhood has been secured? Screw that, bring on the Big House renovation article ... again!"
As long as Boo Boo and McGuffie are here next fall, I could are less who de-commits.
Cissoko has already said he's still committed. I saw some scaremongering going on at scout regarding McGuffie, but I don't have a subscription so I couldn't read the $coop.
I'm a bit skeptical about Spurrier. He hasn't done much with S. Carolina. Granted, he may not have the facilities, back-yard talent, or tradition. But methinks that a miracle-worker coach could have made a bigger splash by now.
@Tigerfan
I appreciate your rational thoughts on this manner. Heartening to see someone actually taking a sane viewpoint and not jumping off the deep end because your coach lost 5 games in three years. Downright refreshing. Maybe Les can instill that attitude in A2 if all goes according to plan. If only he could bring the LSU crowd with him, then I'd be f'n pumped.
just hope he brings the food!
that would be asking too much, it'd be like nirvana
does lsu have a law school?
dex it has nothing to do with criticizing a coach's abilities. Isn't this the RIGHT time to question a coach's ability? Like...before we hire them? If there's ever a time to ask questions and make suggestions, it's now.
Gutz - I think he just understands how to win at high levels. Wherever he seems to go he gets guys to win, and win big. I love watching his offense, and I love knowing that he came up with what he does, not some great coordinator. Same goes with his defenses. It seems as though even though he has a very innovative offense, he doesn't forget about the D, which seems to be a similar occurrence when looking at big east teams and some pac-10 teams.
oops edit: dex, it isn't similar to criticizing our current coach's abilities (like we did with Carr et al).
it's ok to question, but some of this is relentlessly negative. he lost 5 (!) games in 3 years. if your going to criticize based on that, then again, who the hell are we supposed to hire?
Finding fault with having 5 losses in 3 years (one of which was in the aftermath of Katrina) is really nitpicking. Also LSU's amazing talent (i.e. talent Saban brought in) is a bit overstated. Here are the leaders for most draft choices in the last 2 drafts:
OSU-17, USC-16, Texas/FSU-13, LSU/Florida/VTech/Georgia-12, Tennessee-11, Michigan/Notre Dame-10.
That's a ton of talent they've had drafted but it's not like they're far and away better than everyone else, as some make it seem. Miles is doing exactly what he needs to do with his talent.
As to the bowls, things could be interesting if Illinois goes to the BCS. Would Capital One take Wisconsin for the 3rd year in a row or Penn State (whom we beat) over us? If they did, would the Outback take Penn State for the 2nd year in a row over us? I can't imagine we're that unattractive of a match.
"Tressel's talent vs. Okie St. is an incredible difference Anon. Put that into perspective please."
No,no,no. Les Miles lost one time to Tressel and that means he will NEVER EVER beat him.
Clearly there aren't enough deep thinkers on this board like Anon.
Re: bowls, you have to think the prospect of televising Lloyd's last game is something of a draw, right? I know it's not like Lloyd = omg ratings!!!, but Penn State? Is there anyone outside of the state of Pennsylvania who would tune in to watch that team?
I agree with dex. No problem with a good discussion and voicing some opinion. But to say Miles isn't the best candidate because Tressel beat him when he was coaching Okie State, and because he has 5 losses in 3 years....Well that is laughable. The guy is obviously a good coach, and a great candidate for this job.
"If only he could bring the LSU crowd with him, then I'd be f'n pumped."
Maybe he'll bring night games with him...
Well I dont criticize him on his record...I like Les Miles and think he's almost definitely going to be a solid coach for us if he decides to come, and I LOVE his love for his alma mater from those who know him/players who have played for him, I would just rather have Kelly. I have no say in who is going to be the next HC, it's just my opinion.
I'm amused by the people that say Les Miles isn't a good coach and just puts together a great staff. Isn't that part of the game? Knowing what you know and what you don't? Or do you prefer outdated coaches like Debord, Gittleson, Moeller, and Loeffler?
All Anons are Subcommandante Waynes.
Daniel L...his SUPPORTERS for this job say that he's a CEO type of coach and that they have confidence he'll pick good coordinators, not his detractors. However, if I had a choice over a CEO type coach or someone who really knows how to orchestrate a good scheme, I'd rather have him.
Also, how is Loeffler outdated? lol he's like, 32, and teaching a QB how to run a pro-style offense isn't outdated.
come someone explain the "sleeves"
Night games make me all tingly in special ways.
The Big House...8PM kickoff...that would rule so hard.
I believe Gholston's name has officially been changed to Roidy McRoiderson, thank you.
But yeah, the guy has guns.
Bo Pelini has actually been in this situation before, at Nebraska, between Solich and Callahan, he coached an Alamo Bowl versus MSU. I think he won.
MArio Rules -
The new stadium improvements will also include lights. I just hope, though, that Michigan never plays a regular season game in the middle of the week.
Vests have no sleeves. That's it.
Anonymous,
It's a reference to Tress wearing sweater vests instead of actual sweaters.
Hey everyone,
Just wanted to say that i was not dogging Less or saying we should not hire him because of five losses in three years......at the top of this thread someone worried about the fact that it did not seem LSU were worried about Les leaving.....i was trying to give some perspective as to why that is......there are delusional fans down there who think he is underacheiving and winning only w/ Saban's guy, and there are delusional fans down there who think this just sets them up to get Spurrier......the fact is Les' record at LSU is rather unprecedented for that school. I am sure Tiger Fan can attest to that fact.
Of course, there are plenty of people up here who think that since we did not win a national title and had a pair of 2-loss seasons with Tom Brady as QB is a sign of bad coaching and underachieving.....LSU hardly corners the market on delusional fans.....or people who use revisionist history for that matter.
As for Miles losing in the Alamo Bowl to OSU.....well all I can say to that that has not already been said is this: OSU hired Cooper in no small part because he beat UM in the 1987 Rose Bowl....how did that work out? I would not put too much stock in that bowl result. Different time and a much much different place.
Although it clearly doesn't appear to be, should Miles' age be an issue? He's already 54 years old. Carr is only 62. If Miles decides to hang up his clipboard in 8 years, is that a big deal to us?
Does that matter to anyone? Maybe it doesn't. Just wondering...
Henne has not improved much since his freshman year. He came to UM with that poise. Loeffler has only taught him to release the ball low enough to be batted down an inordinate number of times. I can't recall ever seeing three 6'5" QBs (Henne, Mallett, Navarre) have so many deflected passes. Also, Henne was pretty bad against App State and Oregon. Perhaps it was the plays being run or something else, but Henne looked to be overthinking and didn't play well. He played much better when he was allowed to throw without consequence. His deepball this year seemed off, almost like he was trying to avoid an interception than to complete the throw. But against MSU and Illinois, when he was allowed to throw, he was dead on. I think he'll be a fantastic NFL qb.
We should be in the fucking Capital One Bowl. We beat Illinois on their turf. We were slighted last year, and Lloyd Carr is on his way out. And we were slighted in 2005 when the Outback Bowl dumped us for Iowa. We were playing for the Rose Bowl on Saturday for chrissakes. Not fair.
Um, to anyone thinking that Les Miles' one game against Ohio State when he was at OkSt means anything, need I remind you that some guy named John Cooper beat Michigan once when he coached at Arizona State and immediately got hired by Ohio State. That record of dominance over Michigan really worked out great... for Michigan.
One game means jack. Especially with the talent difference between the two teams.
Daniel L. Really?
I am a critic of this staff, but Henne showed solid improvement.
Look at some of the games last year. His ability to look-off safeties which is very important. ( Minn, PSU ).
He regressed this year. But that has to do with inconsistent O-Line and injury, mainly. If Henne didn't improve why do we have such a stark difference between Mallett and Henne ? Our O functions better when a healthy henne is QBing.
And does the entire Buckeyenation think that just because OkSU lost to OSU, the Vest will own Les ? Wow.
Remember that he keyed in on rivals -- he beat the mighty Oklahoma 2 times during his tenure.
People should email the Capital One Bowl telling them that Michigan should be considered after years of being slighted in the bowls. Yeah I'm complaining about something.
Apparently the entire Buckeye nation also believes that Zook now owns Tressel.
Carr retiring at 62 is a bit different. If you ignore rumors of illness (personally I think he has Parkinson's) you can look at him as the type to live life outside of football. He's clearly devoted to his family. He might just want to move on.
As for the illness rumors, they have been so persistent I have a hard time they aren't based in some fact. I've never heard illness rumors used against any other coach, including oldies like Bowden and Paterno. Also, early onset Parkinson's is easily controlled by drugs for a certain amount of time. In addition, numerous quotes over the years have said "Lloyd should coach as long as he is ABLE to." Lloyd Carr has the most secure job in the country. There is no reason to say "able" unless there is another factor. However, the man won't confirm if the QB that just limped off the field holding his ankle has an ankle injury, admitting to Parkinson's will never happen. Has Lloyd ever said "I don't have Parkinson's"? or has he just called it a vicious rumor?
From this commenter's untrained eye, Les Miles looks like a coach that can get you (on average) a 10-2 season, with occasional dips into 9-3, 8-4, 11-1, and 12-0 territory. Disagree if you like, but please explain if you do.
If you grant my premise of Les Miles being a 10-2 guy, then however you feel about that, there's no disputing that's an improvement over Lloyd Carr. Couple that improvement with a passionate guy that's willing to gamble, and I think we could have a lot of fun with this guy. IMO:
Lots of wins + lots of fun == good coaching choice
But we can take a look at Kelly, Gruden, and Trgovac too. I suspect we'll keep coming back to the Mad Hatter, though.
Daniel,
Good point. Of course, Carr has also never said "I've never been abducted by Aliens in an overly-extensive plot to take over the world by putting good, but not great, Michigan teams on the field," so clearly, he has some probing to explain.
just because we were playing for the rose bowl doesnt mean we deserved it. and obviously that showed. do we deserve to be ranked above illinois? ok so we beat them, we also had a couple BAD losses.
why do the freep and detnews have dueling cissoko quotes?
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...ORTS06/
71119071
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs...1131/
SPORTS0201
Good grief...I thought I was easily the most cynical, bitter, negative person posting on this board, but after reading some critiques of our potential head coaches I'm not so sure I can claim that title anymore...wow...
Subcommandante Wayne,
Good day ol' friend. It has been a long time.
EEKS:
Of course our O is better with Henne. The best comparison between them is 2004 Henne to 2007 Mallett.
Henne came in as a freshman with all the poise and humility Mallett lacks. He also got a lot of 1st string snaps preseason as Gutz was injured. Braylon and Avant also were there to help him out. Mallett, on the other hand, has all the bravado and none of the poise, and from what cameras capture does not take criticism well or even relate to his WRs well. He most likely didn't receive much practice preseason, as is evident by the number of center/qb exchange issues.
Henne has improved, he was outstanding last year. However, he's proven himself as the type of QB that can take over and win games. When asked to go out and win games, (PSU '05, OSU '06, Texas Rose Bowl, Illini '07, MSU '07) he's superb. But when the coaches have him play to not lose, he does not perform well.
How many deep balls did he overthrow this year? Did he ever miss short? No short misses, this is because conventional football coaching is if you're going to miss deep you miss long and to the outside. However, when you are throwing deep to single covered Manningham or Arrington, you have to believe they will snag the occasional short ball and therefore the coaches should have the QB make the best throw he can. I feel that Henne's talent has been underutilized by playing to not lose. Our "scoring offense" is really "Henne unchained".
Anon 6:06
Was there a rumor to that effect? That Lloyd was abducted by aliens?
If confronted by a rumor, the lack of a concrete denial is nearly an admission of truth to the rumor. Look at Les Miles side stepping "Will you be at LSU next year" questions by saying he loves LSU. Curt Schilling publicly accused Barry Bonds of taking steroids and Barry had no response.
If he doesn't have Parkinson's (and once again, I asked if he had ever denied having it, or just said it was a vicious rumor) then why wouldn't he just say so?
@ questions regarding sleeves
Brian's favorit e sign was "We can afford sleeves"
my response was that he can keep his wonderful sleeves, and I will take the victory (pit hair out and all)
If we go 10-2 every year, i guess i would take that in a heart beat. For MNC to happen you need a lot of breaks to go your way, if we average 10-2 that means we are doing all the "little things" right and its only a matter of time before all things line up. Its quite unreasonable to expect MNC every year and be disappointed if we don;t make it, but at the same time cannot settle for 8-4/9-3. 10-2 and a BCS bowl berth should be the norm every year!!!
Hope Miles or whoever can deliver that , along with running a clean program!!
Yep.. 10-2 with 2 out of {MSU, ND, Bowl} and a win against OSU.
I don't even care if we drop a game or two to Ill/ Wisc/ Iowa/ Tough OOC. But maintain the tradition with PSU please.
Next year Utah really frightens me. They thumped Louisville this year.
Remember Mallett came in early, was here for spring ball and all of summer. Henne came in during summer and was anointed starter close to the end of training camp when Guts's shoulder blew up.....plus this year was an aberration, injury and everything made it bad. Plus he is also not 6-5 he is 6-2 and most of his batted balls were not due to low release, but because Dlinemen were in the throwing lanes, why he was throwing in those lanes is another question!!!
Point is Henne is an excellent QB, who still has some growing up to do in the "pocket presence" thingie!!
Alamo does seem pretty likely at this point, there's no way a bowl would pick us over Wisconsin or Illinois, standings be damned.
If confronted by a rumor, the lack of a concrete denial is nearly an admission of truth to the rumor.
Dan L - The 5th Amendment would like a word with you...:)
@Eeks
The new regime must continue the grand tradition of pwning PSU.
The new regime must also unceremoniously boot Da-Bored and Coach Git to the curb.
bsb- I was wondering the same thing about Cissoko. DetNews says he is committed- "Whoever comes in as coach, I'll play for." Freep quotes him- "I got to weigh my options, take my visits and see who the next coach going to be and go from there.”
Does anyone have an idea on the disparity?
Well, EEKS, I'm not saying that next year will be 10-2- I'm saying that Les Miles is, on average, a 10-2 guy, and that's a definite improvement over Carr and IMO is good enough to keep M in the national title hunt year in and year out.
Next year might be bloody, IMO. The defense might be okay, but the secondary will be weak, and the offense will be young/bad all over the place. I don't have high hopes for next year, regardless of who's coaching.
I'd trust Markowski and the Detroit News's version of the Cissoko story. Plus Markowski has been covering Detroit area high schools for a long time, and I've never heard of Vince Ellis. The News story is more consistent with the premium scout story. I have no worry. I believe that whatever coach comes in will have little choice but to retain certain members of the current staff, those being: Ron English, Steve(?) Szabo, Erik Campbell, Fred Jackson, and Scot Loeffler. I'd hope the new coach would keep Steve Stripling, as well. Our D-Line play has remarkably improved since he was hired for the 2006 season. The guys I mentioned are largely responsible for our recruiting, plus they all have fairly good reputations as coaches. I'd expect those guys to stay and most of the recruiting class to stay, as well.
Coach Carr retiring at 62 seems a little early to some, admittedly, but it's also perhaps the best opening he sees coming and if he is committed to doing what is best for the program and for the school. Everything I had read had all said the same thing, he's not a lifer, he wants to go out and experience some of what life has to offer beyond the football field. In watching him during some of the footage ESPN had from when he went to Australia last spring, you could see he was genuinely enjoying himself, learning something new and sharing what he had. I also think, genuinely, he looked at how much Bo enjoyed his retirement years (reading Bo's book convinced me of this) and realized that he wants to get out there and enjoy the world. As Jam22 said "Get out there and spend some of that money he has." I cannot begrudge the man if he wants to live a life beyond football, even if that may seem a little foreign in the world of coaching.
Maybe he'll get to meet Maureen Dowd now.
One worry about Miles,
If he really is careful about hiring good assistants, what is he going to do with Debord? Could the contracts with the current assistants keep Miles from coming to U of M? Finally, has anybody heard anything about the S & C guy? Is he retiring as well?
I heard Gittleson was retiring. I don't know if it's true or not, but that's what I heard, even before Lloyd announced his retirement.
If Les Miles promises to punch John Pollack in the nose without cease for one minute I will support him wholeheartedly regardless of record.
For one of the most ridiculous HC names allegedly floated, the NY Times online provided us with:
Bret Bielema.
As far as Les Miles goes, if he promises to punch John Pollack squarely in the schnozz without cease for sixty seconds, he has my unwavering support regardless of wins and losses.
sorry about the repeat comment about punching Pollack in the nose.
Nah, I'm not.
And that photo of OSU simply sidestepping our OL says everything you could hope to say about our line in that game, and our OL coaching in general. On that play, that should never, ever happen. Even if you're playing the New England Bradys you should at least be able to fall at the feet of one of the DLinemen and trip him.
The idea that people are going to pillory Miles for losing a few games a year, or losing to Tressel when he was with Okie St. while support Brian Kelly in the same breath is absurd. You can point to Miles losing to Kentucky (who has a Heisman caliber QB in Andre Woodson) or to an elite Auburn team last year. Kelly has got beaten by Steve Kragthorpe (a punchline in our coaching conversation) and DAVE WANNSTEDT. I'm not saying Kelly isn't a good coach, but he's got his share of embarassing losses.
Bo Pelini is expected to possibly take the Nebraska job, so I wouldn't count on him coming.
My guess is Ron English stays on as DC. Mike Debord will probably get demoted to a position coach.
No way in Hell Bielema is the next coach at UM.
By Anonymous's standards of excellence, Bo Schembechler in no way merited the job at UM. For Chrissakes, he lost games while at a MAC school... what an incompetent dope he was!
I can only hope that Da-Bored and Dorrell are not on Bill Martin's 20 candidate list.
Gnarls:
Are you referring to self-incrimination? He obviously does not have to answer any question about illness. However, if completely healthy, why not say so? I realize why he SHOULDN'T confirm. It would be unfairly held against him by ignorant people, and would be used in negative recruiting. I have no problem with him sidestepping the issue, and I'm glad he did.
I'll consider it a success even if the next coach lets only Git and DeBord go and retains everyone else.
We need our Offense to be independent of how our D performs. No "opponents less than 30 points.. I wins" thing. ( anyway, the D gave only 14 points to OSU but we still lost). We need someone who can pull a fake field goal against ol' ball coach. We need to block a punt.
We need SEC-level DEs. Not players whose talents are squandered like Jamison with a disgusting gut ( great day against OSU, Tim ). Jamison was a 5 star I think and wreaked havoc in HS AA Army game.
These two aspects are eerily similar to what's going on at Penn State. They have great east coast talent, but
* They have an offensive co-ordinator who's related to the Head coach. ( DeBord got the job because he's friends with Lloyd after a 12-34 record at CMU )
* Their S&C philosophy is HIT
* They punt from opponent's 37.
@Eeks
Almost totally agree with your last post, but as far as the new regime booting Da-Bored and Git I would add Andy Moeller to that list. Everyone else can stay. An addition of a ST coach would be nice too.
Playing more "what if" games:
If Les Miles does come to Michigan, it's safe to say that he won't be able to bring his coordinators with him- both Pelini and Crowton will have chances at coaching gigs elsewhere, and it would be hard to imagine them passing those opportunities up just to make a horizontal move to Ann Arbor.
So, who are the hot and/or up-and-coming coordinators out there that Miles would hire? Remember, Miles is very much a CEO-type coach, so he'll probably bring in whoever he thinks is the best, not necessarily who he's friends with. Any thoughts?
Is Andy Moeller the reason for the terrible O LINE play or is the poor strength and conditioning the reason for terrible O LINE play? I think it's a bit of both.
THE ESPNews anchor just said Lloyd resigned today. He didn't resign he retired, moron, there is a difference.
Ron English will probably stay if Bo Pellini doesn't come with Les. Ron is a great recruiter and has proven to be passionate and loved by his players. As for offensive coordinator, I'm hoping for Cam Cameron, one of Les Miles' best friends.
@Daniel L
I think its both Moeller and the S&C program. IMO both should be gone next season.
Agreed Jim.
I can't see Cameron walking away from an NFL head coaching job to become a college OC. True, the Dolphins are awful, but I don't think many blame him for how bad they are this year.
EEKS:
Under a different S&C program and diet I think that Jamison would be a completely different player, and much closer to the SEC-esque DE that we'd all love to see playing for M.
Getting rid of Git and implementing a modern, scientifically proven S&C regime is going to do worlds of good for our program!
Daniel L.
Cam's salary right now must be somewhere around 2-3 million. As a O coordinator at Mich, he'll earn 5-10% of what he's earning right now. Definitely doesn't look feasible for him.
If he were fired, look for San Diego to retain him as O Coordinator ( Norm will be let go if he doesn't make it to the playoff ) We can only dream of getting Cam, I think.
Norv*
Dream scenario:
Antonio Bass gets fully healthy and we run a spread-option like Oregon, Illinois. Oregon's OC --> OC. We run with Antonio Bass, Sam McGuffie and Stonum.
Personally, I don't like spread option. Pro System FTW! But I'd like to see how terrified our rival fanbases will be.
"UM needs someone who can actually beat Tressel. You still haven't responded to the point that Tressel handed Miles his shirt, to the tune of 33-7 in their only matchup."
Ohio State hired John Cooper partly because he beat Michigan in a Rose Bowl, and we all know how that turned out. So I'm disinclined to use one game coaching at a different school as substantive proof a guy can or can't beat the rival.
EEKS:
I don't see how any coach survives a 0-16 season. Also, Cam Cameron and Norv Turner are both in the "great OCs but terrible HCs" mold. Cam Cameron did a great job with Indiana's offense earlier this decade though. He's also a best friend of Les. If we got Les, it is possible Cam would come. It's unlikely, but dare to dream.
Hey fellas, it's getting pretty hot where I'm at. If I got your head coaching job, we'd do our talking on Saturdays, if you know what I mean. I'm an X's and O's guy, with a cheeseburger and some fries on the side. Will you consider me?
EEKS, you and I disagree- I love the spread option offense, and I would love to see the next Michigan OC implement it (though it would take years to do). I have no idea if Chip Kelly, the Oregon OC, would be interested in a horizontal move. Perhaps staring into the abyss of coaching Ryan Leaf's little brother for the next few years is enough of an incentive for him to get out of town, but who knows.
re: two-year contracts for assistants:
That's a nice "going away present" from Carr to his people- UM will be required to pay them, but not necessarily employ them. Basically gives them a one year salary's worth severance package.
Someone explain to me how Michigan is third in the final standings when both they and Illinois are 6-2 in conference and Michigan beat them head to head?
Overall standings didn't come into the conversation about the conference champ last week. isn't head to head the first tiebreaker?
@ Magnus, from a previous section...
I really do not want to continue debating the merits of Lloyd Carr, as he has walked away with dignity and class, and to continue bashing our team's issues the past 7 years is pointless and takes away from appreciating his accomplishments. Instead I am thankful that he is not as blind and stubborn as his dogmatic supporters...or we would have an awkward Joe Pa scenario brewing in Ann Arbor. Lloyd admitting it was time to move on and he was no longer the man for the job should be enough to end the debate. Instead, let's agree to appreciate what this great man did for our beloved university and look to the promise of a bright future.
Could you imagine Mike Ditka smoking a stogie on the sidelines of the big house?
I thought Bass's injuries were pretty extensive and there were no guarantees on his return to the football field. Furthermore, I heard his passing was pretty weak. I don't have a problem with the spread but I not sure Mallet would look good doing it. He seems like a pretty inaccurate short passer. Plus, I think Grady and Minor would be better out of more traditional offenses.
I wish Carr well, but the last few years (since about '00) have been frustrating to say the least. Losing to OSU nearly every year, the blowouts, Debords' poor offenses, "poor preparation", bowl spankings, antiquateed S&C, no toughness, etc and so on. His retirement is at least 3 years too late. I'm tired of the "old guard" look at where it has gotten us.
No no no no no no no no no to the continued name dropping of NFL guys.
Few get the college game, and fewer ever will.
The other thing that really bugs me about the NFL is that 90% of current NFL teams are unwatchable.
With the kind of $$$ and alleged brains the NFL has at its disposal, how is this possible to put out such a garbage product?
FWIW according the ESPN - top 3 candidates are 1. Miles, 2. Ferentz and 3. Kelly.
@Jim Harbaugh Scramble....and really anyone else having issues w/ espn's coverage of this.
I could not agree more, and it is getting my blood boiling.....in addition to saying that saying he resigned.....Jay Harris, espn's anchor, lead into their sportscenter story by saying the loss to OSU was the final nail in his coffin.....that all but implies he was fired.
Also, Dickie V in this BBall game I am watching just said he felt sorry for Lloyd and that its too bad he had to fall vicim to the what have you done for me, win at costs mentality......Dude, Lloyd did not fall to anything....he retired.....both the AD and school president said he could coach as long as he wanted to.
All this language that implies he was fired or was forced out is really making me angry
Stupid, ESPN....who cares about them anyway.
Who ever the next coach is, how about extending an olive branch to Mr. Michigan himself, Jim Harbaugh and bringing him in as offensive coordinator. If I'm not mistaken, he started his career as a quarterbacks coach and went on to become an offensive coordinator. I'd consider it a step up from his current job.
And is it safe to say we have a new coach in fuckin' Les Miles?
Jaime Mac:
ESPN's attitude has pretty much become, "Why report the news when you can make it all up as you go?"
Osman:
At this rate Miles is looking pretty inevitable, isn't he? I wonder if all parties involved are going to be able handle a 6 week media circus around this situation?
LET 'ER RIP
Lets assume that Les Miles is Plan A.....what happens if he pulls a Roy Williams the first time around the UNC job opened up.....remember he turned it down and stayed at KU for, i think, three more seasons; UNC hired Dougherty, and got Roy Boy only later......it is not incoceivable that Les has fallen smitten w/ LSU and stays...I know that sounds hard to believe, but there was all sorts of shock when Williams did the same thing.
Whats Plan B.....do we go to the next outside candidate w/ that person knowing he was the #2 option or maybe go within at the point.....I'm thinking Ron English in this scenario.....hopefully whatever happens DeBord never becomes our head coach, even under the above scenario.
@Jamie Mac -
COuldn't agree more with your take on how espn is spinning this to seem like Carr was "forced out."
@bluewolverine
I 100% agree - no NFL guys. For every pete carrol there are a handful of terrible coaches (charlie weis, groh, gailey, Wannstache, callahan, etc.).
Sidenote - Bill Martin said the new coach will have experience I think that eliminates Harbaugh, peterson, or any big name coordinator. I just hope Martin knows to get rid of Da-Bored
Phew, I am glad i was not the only one who seeing that ESPN spin....what a crock....speaking of crocks of shit....Drew Sharp was on espn yesterday reporting that DeBord would be named interim coach for the bowl as a one game tryout.....yeah, he's a reliable source, put him on the airwaves.....but lets not reach out or even give attribution to our fearless leader here....I swear Sharp just made that shit up, knowing it would rankle the Michigan fans who heard it.
lol osman, love that last quote.
The "forced out crap" by ESPN is particularly frustrating b/c we had to listen Howie Schwab (spelling?) tell us we were bad fans for giving Lloyd a hard time. Then ESPN turns around and makes up that he was forced out and creates a lot of false bad press about Carr.
jamie,
Martin stated publicly that the next HC for M must have previous success as a HC. That eliminates anyone on the current staff.
So you got:
Miles
Tedford
Kelly
Edsall (UCONN)
Pinkel (Mizzou)
But Miles is getting 1st dibs.
While the rest of ESPN is doing a pretty crappy job reporting on the situation, I actually kinda liked Maisel's columns on the topic so far.
Sorry, here are the links to Maisel's columns:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/co...ivan&
id=3119068
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/co...ivan&
id=3119231
I don't know about anyone else, but Cal's collapse following the Oregon St. loss has really taken the shine off Tedford for me.
Top RB Forsett and #1 WR Jackson have taken turns playing "invisible man" since the Oregon State loss.
I also don't think that Cal plays very hard-nosed defense. Not surprising for a Pac-10 team, but Cal seems softer than most.
CAUP '91......i understand and agree w/ that pre-requisite.....wondering if that changes with a public courting of Miles that does not end up with us getting our man.....although, i really dont think we're going to be so obvious as UNC was w/ wanting Roy, or maybe we already are....lol.
I'd put Jim Grobe on that list of yours as well.....maybe ahead of Pinkell, despite his success this year....something just seems a little inconsistent about his programs, although I realize winning big at Mizz is not all that easy..although his past at Toledo may help get more recruits out of Ohio.
Big fan of Kelly.....was glad MSU did not hire him......Edsall would be nice as well....Kelly, Edsall, Grobe would probably not balk at being # 2 choice in my above scenario because of how much a step up UM is because the Big East is really just a mid major league and Grobe at WF can only do so much even in a down ACC.
If you think a man who has dreamed of coaching at U-M is going to come in and not put the exact staff in place that HE wants, that will give him the very best chance to succeed...you, my friend, are crazy. Debord and English are gone if Miles or anybody else doesn't want them. No coach is going to be given the reins at U-M and keep anyone on due to their contract or any other reason. Part of being a football coach, particularly an assistant, is being let go and finding the next opportunity. Debord is obviously not the answer at OC and I see nothing from English this year that makes me think the successor would want to keep him around...at least not at this juncture.
1) no lights will be added to the Stadium, unless plans have changed.
2) Henne progressed fine...go look at the 2006 UFRs brian did. most of his sucking was on the injury. some was on MM quitting on routes.
3) i still haven't heard the full story re: BKelley and the CMU murder. perhaps i'll google it, but the miles fragrance is so strong around here it seems moot right now.
4) only MDan and gingel are allowed to rip coaches for losing 2 games a year. i think it's board policy.
TX Wolverine:
Thanks for the Maisel columns. He's actually one of the few writers at ESPN that I like. It probably helps that he doesn't seem to have a complex about defaming Michigan!
I have it on good authority that Michigan just poached OSU's defensive coordinator for the head coaching job.
An anonymous source from an anonymous commenter! Book it U-M fans!
Listening and watching Lloyd at his retirement press conference I don't see how Michigan can go from a coach who references philosophers and the classics to a guy who pronounces Arkansas "Ar Kansas" in his press conference. Not for or against it, just saying it would be a drastic change in culture.
Can Les Miles bring more passion and imagination to the game than Lloyd has over the past few years...probably. But can he be the teacher of young men that Lloyd was throughout his career...That I just don't see.
I have been one of the biggest proponents of it being time for Lloyd to move on, but UM can not sell it's soul for victories either. Hopefully there is a candidate out there that can win games and teach young men.
I have it on good authority that Michigan just poached Bill Belicheck for the head coaching job. And he's bringing back Tom Brady to start at QB.
It's going to be AWESOME.
My vibe as of right now...
It won't be Miles. He is not ready. He is not polished enough. Maybe he gets the call in 10 years, but IMO he is too much of a loose cannon right now.
Tom Brady awarded Tacopants' infinite eligibility!!!! YUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Grobe is definitely an interesting name...his guys play tough for 60 minutes, and he's done wonders with the talent available at a tiny school that has no tradition of being a big time athletic power...
I have it on good authority that they are going to demolish the big house and build a gigantic water slide.
Bend it...he'll be wayy to old in 10 years. It's now or never for Miles.
How old is Miles? I figure 40 - 45
Heh, Tressel is the same age as Miles, so we'll be facing the vest for at least the next 10 years, possibly longer unless an NFL team shows up and throws tens of millions of dollars at him to lure him to the pros...even then, I'm not sure Tressel would take the money...
Naw, he's more like 51 I think.
Miles is 54 as of November 10th.
jk...recently turned 54. yIKES.
Wow. He is 54. I just looked it up. Yeah, he will probably never be polished.
Well, considering Tom Brady is playing this year like he's 11 feet tall and made of dreams, maybe it's not so inconceivable that he gets Tacopants' eligibility too.
Bend It : serious question - what does polished look like?
and who the heck watches sportscenter anymore?
I know people have mixed opinions of Scout.com, and I have no idea if even 50% of the posted comments about Michigan S&C are true, but it's a sad commentary if they are. There is also bonus Roidy McRoiderson hating:
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=1...=2019&
t=1444960
Maybe people with much better contacts than me can confirm portions of the comments about Michigan S&C?
Curious - does everyone assume that Rich Rodriguez will never leave WVU because its his alma mater? The guy is 44, won a BCS bowl, and his team has finished in the top 10 the last two years.
Not saying he's the top candidate by any stretch, but I would think he's in any top 5 conversation.
I watch Sportscenter if I think that Stuart Scott is going to say something funny. Meaning I haven't watched Sportscenter in like 5 years.
@bluewolverine
I've heard multiple times that Tressel's dream job is coach of the Cleveland Browns, IMO that is the only job he'd leave OSU for.
Also I agree with your point that Grobe should be considered. He got Wake Forest to a BCS game, and he seems like a classy guy who runs a clean program.
@DanK......yeah, I know....watching sportscenter, kinda lame....but i wanted to see how they covered this especially after catching the Sharp spot on espn news yesterday afternoon....wanted to see if they had him on again.....the Dickie V commentary, give me a break, I was watching a Bbball game :)
It is Feast Week after all....when are we going to talk about UM's chances in the Alaska Shootout?!?!?
Anyone ambitious enough to try and put together what the 30 names Martin says he's looking at might be?
(Stuck at work now, so can't take the time to do so myself . . .)
Please don't list 30 names. My God, if there's really 30 names they could be literally anybody you could possibly fathom. Assume your favorite guy is on the list.
@ kgh10,
Polished can take many different forms. Les Miles doesn't take any of them. Did you see his presser today? I thought his head was going to explode.
Grobe could be a good choice. Just this weekend we were talking about how you can never count Wake Forest out, despite their comparative disadvantage in the ACC.
Bo wasn't exactly the classy guy Lloyd is, either, though.
Me, I can't wait for the giant waterslide!
lol no, but I was hoping for a more elaborate description of what polished is (to you). Les isn't my favorite, but I can't say I'd even be remotely dissapointed if he's chosen.
This is just my personal opinion, but our next head coach needs to have major intensity. MAJOR intensity. I am willing to trade some polish for this. This is one of Miles' most attractive qualities.
I totally agree. I just wonder if Martin and Miles would get along.
BILG is already dogging on our (next) head coach BEFORE HE'S EVEN HIRED!
Niiiiice....
Officially tuning out all negative comments from BILG, which is approx 99% of them.
CAUP...again, if there's a time to criticize a coach, it's before he's hired here, not after (when we're contractually obligated to keep him).
Martin's only interest is filling the stadium and maximizing revenue. As long as Les runs a clean program that wins, they will get along just fine.
yeah, sometimes i catch myself watching SC when there's nothing else on, or they are talking CFB. then 2 mins later i notice that i'm still watching, and i get that sick feeling like when you 1st turn the TV on, walk away, come back in and you're like 'The View???" WTF am i watching this for? puke. even when they're talking about something interesting, you feel dirty for watching moderately informed idiots yell at each other.
the S&C stuff has been a problem for years, and it's all bascially true, afaik. the whole business/industry/field has moved away from what UM & PSU still do....and that was 15-20 years ago.
if someones going to talk about the AK shootout, then i want to know what our chances are vs Minn, Wisc @ Yost this weekend too.
/random list of 30, no order
miles, RichRod, Bkelley, Trgovac, Tedford, Cam Cameron, Ferentz, Schiano,Uconn guy, Boise guy, Gruden, Harbaugh, Kansas Fatguy, Mizzou guy, stoops i guess, BC guy?, kentucky guy?, petrino,
who am i missing?
who am i missing?
Notre Dame fatguy? Just kidding :)
grobe and Wake guy?
I am not hating on any potential coaches....just saying Miles would be a huge change from Carr. Would be very interesting.
Alamo bowl?
@danK
your list is missing the OSU d-cord. because according to an Anon we just poached him away from OSU.
I think his name is Jim Heacock and if I'm not mistaken he's kinda old and he will never be the head coach of UM.
any coach in the nation would be a big change from carr....except Ed 'straight arrow' Jeniero maybe. is robert loggia available for DC? maybe Popke could be our new QB coach if lefty moves on.
In Alaska, I'm not sure we can outshoot Butler....not sure how it matches up the rest of the way.....afraid that Gonzaga would roll us if it gets to that......regardless, excited to watch, Beilein will have this team competitive come Big 10 play.
As far as hockey, I mean c'mon we are the top ranked team in the nation....nothing goes wrong with Michigan athletics when we're highly ranked, right?!?!
@wolverine in fla
what do you mean by "Alamo bowl?"
A rematch with Texas is possible in the Alamo Bowl if they were to be upset by A&M.
Well, we just swept LSSU hockey for the first time in a while, but they aren't the national power they were 15 years ago.
DanK - that is why I was asking for someone to put together a list of 30. I thought that number was extremely high. I've probably only heard about 15, maybe 20 names bantered about.
I love the fact that overrated Laurinits (sp) is one of three finalists for best D player in the land.
If he wins that award over Glenn Dorsey there is something wrong.
@medals
one article I read said Martin had a list of 20 names, but Maisel's article said 30 names. I think the 20 names is more reasonable.
Heaven help us if Da-Bored or Dorrell are on the list.
Side note - I'm not sure if any minority candidates are on Martin's list, but he may have to interview some to keep the BCA off his back.
I know in the NFL you have to interview minority candidates, although I don't think you have to in the NCAA.
Guys--I just heard that Tacopants has decided to stay for his senior season upon the news of Les Miles' likely arrival to Ann Arbor.
JHS why are you so concerned about Dorrell?
if the animal wins over VG, something is wrong. that whole D is based on VG getting pressure. with out his ability to command a double and get pressure, that OSU D is not outstanding. solid, good, but not osu2002 good.
yeah, 30 names is alot when you ignore anyone w/o HC experience. maybe if you include crazy stuff like Belicheck, Dungy, Urban, tressel, holth, mike martz, steve mariucci, Ed Jeniero and all the bowdens...then you might get 30. lolz
@kgh
I'm just joking about Dorrell, I'm sure he is not a serious candidate.
Dorrell is worse than Charlie Weis as a head coach.
Tigerfan,
UM needs someone who can actually beat Tressel. You still haven't responded to the point that Tressel handed Miles his shirt, to the tune of 33-7 in their only matchup.
Anonymous | 11.19.07 - 4:58 pm | #
If you will remember that on top of the fact that OSU should beat an Oklahoma St team, Miles had already been hired as the LSU coach and pretty much had his mind on that job.
@Dank
I might be out of the loop but who is Ed Jeniero?
"Dorrell is worse than Charlie Weis as a head coach."
Let's not say things we can't take back.
Ed Jeneiro is the coach in the mnovie Necessary Roughness......i'd take Kathy Ireland as our kicker once Kicking Compentency Lopala uses his eligibility.
@Homer
Yeah Weis sucks but did you see that ND/UCLA game?
Dorrell is beyond awful,his loss to ND this year is beyond inexplicable.
I'd take Hayden Fox over Ed Jeneiro any day.
No, we need to hire Coach Sam Winters away from the ESU Timberwolves!
Why not Hayden Fox....Luther would be a step up from DeBord as OC....besides he coached at the real MSU!!!!!
This picture about sums it up for me...LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
http://img404.imageshack.us/img4...8/
bigbrohn6.jpg
original SOJ. very original.
@SOJ
That pic does sum it up - Tressel looks more like a pederast than I originally thought.
@Jamie Mac
Luther was a good OC for Coach Fox, but even a chimp with copy of the playbook from bill walsh college football would call a better game than Da-Bored.
Bear Bryant left Texas A&M to go to Alabama. When asked why, he said, "When mamma calls, you go home." Fast forward to the present day and my open invitation to one Les Miles: dear fellow alum, "MAMMA'S CALLING, COME HOME!"
I'd like either Eric Taylor or Gary Gaines over Hayden Fox.
Looks we've got a new coaching requirement in fucking polish! Sorry, it had to be said.
I understand BILG's point that the head coach is an educator and a mentor to young men, and as such a certain amount of class and dignity should be required, but...we're not looking for a ballet coach here. This is football, and sometimes football is dirty and nasty. A coach dropping the F-bomb, even to a group of boosters, is not a dealkiller in my mind. A concern, yes, but not a dealkiller.
Perhaps what BILG should do is refine what exactly he means by "polish," and stay away from the whole 'I know it when I see it' approach. From the standpoint of mentoring and educating young men, Les Miles' passion for the game (and passion for U-M) are things that certainly mitigate his pottymouth and rough language. But people can disagree on this.
"This is just my personal opinion, but our next head coach needs to have major intensity. MAJOR intensity. I am willing to trade some polish for this."
Maybe we should go after Coach O down in Mississippi. He'd tear his shirt off in the first press conference and challenge Carty to a cage match right then and there.
Rich Rodriguez has a huge buyout if he leaves, I looked it up after the ASU game. I honestly think it's in the region of $3 mil!
Jim Grobe is an interesting name. Wake has been pretty good lately considering, definitely overachievers, stark contrast to our underachievers.
Kirk Ferentz, also interesting b/c the Mary Sue Coleman connection. But I think he's NFL or Iowa at this point.
Les Miles, agree the AR-Kansas thing was odd, as was the plaid sportcoat. Also agree he needs polish. But I guarantee he gets buffed daily, hard, if he comes to Michigan. He'll fall line, I wouldn't worry a bit about that. Not with Bo's picture everywhere, Bill Martin laying down the law, Lloyd hangin' around.
I think English will remain DC. Cameron will never be our OC. Maybe our HC, but not OC, not after being in the NFL.
Trgovac's name hasn't been mentioned lately at all, maybe b/c Carolina's D isn't so good this year? Would be cool to pick him up to be our DC, but that'd require a paycut.
Brian Kelly, almost forgot about him. Interesting character. Kinda has short-man syndrome maybe? Still looks like he could bust our players' butts into winning big games. He doesn't have that *look* of a bigtime champion. I don't know.
I think that's the short list...
Maisel ain't that great. He's an Alabama native son and his pro-SEC leanings are as clear as permissible for an ostensibly "National" columnist. He never writes on the Big Ten, doesn't know a thing about Michigan, and his article on the matter is a patch job of quotes (well-executed, perhaps, but still just an assembly).
As hokey as Mitch Albom is, his article RE the retirement wasn't bad, though it follows his usual formula of "last sentence= manipulate diction to create vaguely profound insight"
I decided to email ESPN's ombudsman. Sorry for the length of this comment, but I was so incensed by ESPN's coverage I decided to send the following note along...
I am disappointed and appalled at ESPN's butchering of Lloyd Carr's retirement press conference. As a Michigan alumnus, I can guarantee that every pundit ESPN put on the air today was not only incorrect but irresponsible, lazy, and did not do one iota of research on the situation. Any person who has spent more than 5 seconds associated with the either the University of Michigan or it's football program or both would tell you that there is no chance in hell Lloyd Carr would have ever been fired.
Coach Carr's press conference this morning should have been a celebration of a great career and a great man. A fond farewell to one of the last of a dying breed, a coach who quotes Kipling and has always put the University of Michigan and his players ahead of himself and any agenda he might have. Coach Carr has represented my alma mater with class and integrity. I can think of no better face of not only Michigan football but the University as a whole. Coach Carr represents everything that Michigan stands for and ESPN's irresponsible insinuations that he'd been forced out is an embarrassment and a gross misrepresentation of a place that I love as much as Coach Carr does.
ESPN should offer an apology to Coach Carr and the entire Michigan family for the way it handled the coverage of his retirement. It was insulting to watch the man gracefully walk away on his own terms while highlights of losses to Appalachian State, Oregon, Wisconsin, and Ohio State played in a near continuous loop. Surely ESPN could have chosen to show highlights that were more representative of his career, he did win 5 Big Ten titles, appear in 4 Rose Bowls, and win 1 National Championship. But I guess that story wouldn't have been as sensational as the one ESPN negligently tried to create. I will no longer go to ESPN for my sports coverage because if it can't get a story this big right, it must be screwing up other major stories. I am sure many of my Michigan family members will follow suit.
eh, Kelly's more of a champion than any of those other guys mentioned. What has Miles actually won? I know I know...he's coached at D1 for practically all of his career, but don't discout Kelly's championships. A championship is a championship, especially if he actually had to go through a playoff to get to his rings.
For chrissakes, Kirk Ferentz will not be the next head coach here unless he goes to the NFL for a few years. You can count the number of coaches in major conferences who move directly to a rival in the same conference on the fingers of one hand that has already been mangled in a fireworks explosion. Tom O'Brien is about the only one recently. And that ain't working out so well.
But Mary Sue Coleman paid Ferentz once...LOLOL. Because she has ANY say in the next head coach at Michigan.
Good message to the ombudsman. Too bad she writes one article every 2 months. Granted they're good, but ESPN needs an ombudsman article every single day they way they blow shit out of proportion and make misrepresentations. Honestly, I don't even watch sportscenter anymore. I watch ESPNews, and even though it's similar, at least I get actual highlights and scores. And Around the Horn and PTI have basically become the same show with the EXACT same topics. Sucky...
Any info on Paul Johnson at Navy? I don't know that much about him but he seems like a winner. Not a slick choice, but we aren't big on those. Probably not enough experience at a big program, but interesting enough to discuss.
I will say that Lloyd took over in a very down time and it took two years to turn it around. The stretch of Alamo, Holiday, etc... in the 93 to 96 years I believe were our down times. Carr turned it around with a NC. Not too bad. I wonder what this list would have been like during those first years. Will we give the new guy two years, or does it start now?
The next coach isn't given a time limit at all. Michigan has had how many coaches in 107 years? The next hire will be here until he retires in my mind.
MattK, good comments re ESPN's butchering of the whole deal. I'd expect that out of FoxNews. Fuck 'em all.
Cam Cameron will never be our head coach, unless he ends up a success at Miami and another university. He took a poor Indiana situation and left it much worse. I still can't figure out how he merited the Miami job.
Jeff Jagodzinski at BC merits being on Martin's list. BC is pretty substantial academically, and it's not like BC is some traditional football power that can recruit on 100 years of championship football excellence. Don't know if his HC resume is long enough, though.
Seeing as how Tressel's D1AA pedigree didn't hurt him, I would not automatically discount someone similar from that level, if they had a similar record. Without the allegedly sketchy ethics, of course.
Jeff Chadwick, I suspect we'll give the new HC time to get the program headed back in the right direction. Just looking at next year, it's probably going to be a rough road for whoever is at the helm- massive losses on offense with undertalented replacements, and a defense that loses 3 of the back 4, 2 of the 3 linebackers, and a couple of d-linemen...all those losses, coming off a 4 (or, God forbid 5) loss season.
Next year ain't gonna be pretty with Ezeh and Mallett in charge, IMO. We're going to have to be patient...
Looking at Jim Grobe's resume, I'd say he's a pretty viable dark horse candidate if Miles doesn't come. He coached at Ohio for 6 years, so presumably he built up recruiting contacts in the midwest during that time. Having the experience in the ACC at Wake is another positive. His record isn't nearly as accomplished as Kelly's but he may not have the negatives some say Kelly has either.
I'm thinking of writing the ombudsman too, but w/ a different complaint. ESPN is taking credit, patting themselves on the back for breaking the news on the Carr retirement and they're doing the same with the Houston Nutt situation in Arkansas, actually going as far as saying Mark May has learned such and such.....please, we all know who broke the Carr story, one effing week ago....and Everyday Should Be Saturday broke the Nutt news, certainly not Mark May.....what a load of crap they are.
cfaller96: I'm not as pessimistic as you are.....I think they D really came together and we have more contributers coming back than you think.....Ezeh looked lost at times, but I expect him to make a big leap.....a few months of SEC-like S/C has me thinking of a stronger, more aggressive team....keep your eye on QB Steven Threet, maybe a new coach will allow him to compete for the job..dont discount the overall surge of new blood running the show...I truly believe that if Les is here, we will use everybody on our roster, and use many different looks on both sides of the ball which have been big complaints of mine of the last several years with Carr, more so than actual play calling..bottomline, it will be a very fun year, talking and bitching about a new coach, and the results will be the same.....expect to be playing for the league title going into the final game....we've had some share of the league title on the line almost every year since 1969, and we're not falling below that expectation at all....i dont see us being worse than 9-2 going into OSU, but then I am an eternal optimist.
@ Daniel L
I wasn't worried about the university giving the new coach a time limit, I was referring to the fan base. Lloyd's first two years as a coach were losses in the Alamo and Outback bowl (on Carr), following a stirring defeat of Colorado State and North Carolina State in even lesser bowls (Moeller's doing). These were not good times. The question was what kind of patience will the fan base have. I think it is a different time than it was 10 years ago.
Just wondering what happens in B. Kelly or Miles come in and we are in the Outback bowl the next two years.
IMO, the fanbase is fine as long as we win games we should, play OSU tought or win once in the next two years (especially in 2009) and play hard and recruit well. The fanbase will not tolerate looking slow or out of date from a new coach. This doesn't mean a new offense, this means adjusting and playing to win, not playing to not lose. A win at all costs mentality will not be good in the long run. I can handle a 8-5 season if we just don't have the talent. I can't handle a 8-5 season with losses to Wisconsin, App State, and a crappy team in a bowl. All the alumni I graduated with feel the same way.
- Cameron Diaz will be our HC before Cam Cameron. Camerson's one year into an expensive contract with the Dolphins. Plus he is a poor HC.
- Bill Martin is smarter than 99.7% of us and will hire the right person (unless he interviews Tommy Turtleneck again)
- Based on the available evidence, I've deduced that SofJ's dinner break from the I-75 Truckstop outside Dayton begins at 10:50
Mallett will get better. He just isn't ready yet. I'm hoping that someone other than Gittleson will get our players to improve.
Some candidates I am in favor of:
Chuck Martin from GVSU (definitely deserves to be looked at IMO)
Jim Grobe
Brian Kelly
Tom O'Brien
A win next year against OSU is the best way the new coach can win over the fans, its really that simple.
Tigerfan said:
Gruden has also been mentioned as someone that wants a college job in the south if he's ousted at Tampa. There really is no front runner to replace Miles right now... the usual names get thrown about (Rich Rod, Tubby, Petrino), but no one knows right now except Skip Bertman (our AD and legendary baseball coach)
And if that's the case, Gruden is also a candidate, and would consider taking this job.
The top 6 or seven candidates are:
Les Miles
Paul Johnson
Brian Kelley
Jon Gruden
Greg Schiano
Kirk Ferentz
Rodriguez (don't think he'd leave)
maybe Grobe
And remember Bill, he's right. We don't want anything to do with Tedford.
Well, EEKS, I'm not saying that next year will be 10-2- I'm saying that Les Miles is, on average, a 10-2 guy, and that's a definite improvement over Carr and IMO is good enough to keep M in the national title hunt year in and year out.
A 10-2 coach in the SEC is probably an 11-1 coach in the Big Ten. Let's be realistic - their conference is deeper than ours most years.
Tressel won the Buck fans over by guarenteering a win over UM and then delivering it in his first game against the wolverines.
Whoever the new coach is will earn instant credibility with the fans if he can go into the Horsepoo and beat the bucks.
I just hope the new coach can reverse our fortunes against OSU, keep up the dominance over MSU and PSU, and run a clean programs. Bowl wins would be a plus too.
Sidenote - one fanbase that is happy to see Lloyd go has got to be PSU. My guess is that Lloyd has the best winning percentage(maybe even the most wins for a single coach) against PSU ever.
Listening and watching Lloyd at his retirement press conference I don't see how Michigan can go from a coach who references philosophers and the classics to a guy who pronounces Arkansas "Ar Kansas" in his press conference.
Do you realize that this is an accepted pronunciation of "Arkansas" in the Plains states? Miles spent many years in the state of Oklahoma.
Why Les Miles is not going to be our next HC:
Benjamins factor: paying Carr's staff for an extra season equates to $1.3M. I don't see Martin paying another $1.25M to buy Miles out of LSU contract on top of that; he's $2.5M in the hole with a big stadium remodel going and new basketball facility upgrades sorely needed.
Timing factor: 52 days remain until the BCS NC game. NO WAY are we waiting that long to offer the job to Miles. And Les Miles won't quit LSU in late Nov or early Dec to accept Michigan job.
Recruiting factor: Carr said today his primary motivation in announcing now was recruiting continuity. Translation: the replacement will be announced before Dec 15 to give the new dude plenty of time to solidify the class - the are not waiting till after 01/07/2008.
Between the lines factor: Martin has known of Carr's firm decision since Oregon game. Martin's already been working the network since early Sept. Martin's already got his man in mind, most likely - and the initial vetting process has prolly already taken place. There are recruiters who specialize in head coaching searches and Martin's had one on the hunt for 60 days behind the scenes.
Personally, I like everything I read about Brian Kelly except for the murder raps on his CMU players. That eliminates him from Michigan job, fellas. Why do you think MSU passed on him?
One name I don't hear at all surprises me - does anyone think Lou Holtz might be a candidate?
MGoBlueTorontoChapterPres, money is not an issue - at all. The others may or may not be factors.
Belien's buyout was $2.5M. If Martin wants Miles he will get him. Martin can wait until Jan to land Miles. The recruits aren't going anywhere. And national signing day is in February.
Three top priorities for the next coach:
1. Understand offensive football: We don't need to be a juggernaut; we need to have a philosophy and a play book that reflects that philosophy.
2. Recruit Michigan, northern Ohio, and western Pennsylvania well: We need to bring in recruits who love Michigan, and will conform to our regulations and standards.
3. Understand the unique academic, financial, and community constraint of Michigan: We are an academic institution first; we don't have an unlimited budget like OSU or Alabama; and the coach needs to be able operate within a vocal, yet sophisticated community.
Using these criteria, here are how the coaching candidates shake out.
1. Les Miles - He was a OL coach @ U of M, an O-coord @ Okla St, and a TE coach @ Dallas. He understands offensive game planning. However, will he be able to recruit Michigan, Ohio, and Western PA? In addition, will he be able to work under Michigan's financial constraints?
2. Kirk Ferentz - If #1 and #2 are the only criteria, he is the best coach in this list. However, he does not have ties to the university, and he will demand a king's ransom.
3. Brian Kelly - He probably has the strongest offensive acumen in the list. He probably won't demand a huge payday, and he will recruit Michigan well. However, how true are the whispers regarding improprieties?
Bill Martin will probably use a search committee. I suspect that Mary Sue Coleman, one of the Deans, Lloyd, an ex-player (Desmond Howard?), and Martin will form the committee. Miles is probably way ahead of everyone else right now. However, Brian Kelly may end up with the job ultimately, especially if the improprieties turn out to be false.
@Toronto-
yeah lets bring hotlz in for a few years so the program can be placed on five years of probation... no thank you.
@Mgoblog Brian -
based on the sidebar it doesn't seem like you are too thrilled about Jim Grobe - just wondering what your take is on the matter.
Raging Blue:
You should know that the athletic department is independent of the university when it comes to budget. UM CAN spend as much as Alabama or tOSU. It has had no reason to. With luxury boxes and $100M+ stadium renovations starting, spendin $1M more for a coach that can win national titles is nothing. Once again, Belien's BUYOUT was $2.5M, this for a basketball program that has been atrocious lately and was a blackeye on the university after the Fab 5 scandal. The money is nothing.
If you don't like Les, say so, don't hide it in not going to happen candidates (Ferentz) and very very unlikely ones (Kelley).
Lou Holth?!!!!
Aug 30th 2008
---
"Men.. We are batthling the greath University of Uthah. As you know, Uthah is full of mormons. You can'th spell MORMONS without M-O-R-O-N-S.
You are facing a bunch of Napoleon Dynamiths. 20years later, when you are getthing groceries with your wife and kids, you don'th want bunch of hobos to yell "You losth to Dynamith and Pedro. They are retharded" ( spits).
(Tears a newspaper)
The University of Uthah is like thith paper, Even when you try to tear them dhown, they magically re-appear.
( Newspaper is magically restored to ith's original state )
But Men.. We are Michigan. We dhon't respect no paper.
( Goes across the hall. Asks Boren to hold the paper. Gets a big rock and throws. The rock demolishes the paper )
We throw Rock gentlemen. Thath's right! We throw Rock. Bo threw Rock. Lloyd did. We don'th change at the University of Michigan. Leth us show what a Rock can do, gentlemen. Thath the Michigan way. Rock beats paper, men.
Leths go Mayday. ( O-Line Coach )
"
---
@Raging Blue
Ferentz does have ties to the university via Mary Sue Coleman -
but after the past two subpar seasons at Iowa, he may be on the hot seat soon and IMO he really can't ask for a king's ransom.
I'm not big on Ferentz but I'd take him over Teford any day.
@EEKs
Bravo - great post -
encore!
Just curious what the opinions are of my fellow Michigan fans... Top 3 Coaching Candidates and why...
1: Les Miles- For obvious reasons... "let 'er rip." Brian has said it all, all along. Look at the win against Florida. Look at his record, and just the way that his teams play games.
2: Jeff Tedford- Turned Cal from a joke to a National Power. When he took over they were about equivalent of Stanford now, and at one point they were a field goal away from being #1. Not to mention Cal has tougher academic standards than Michigan, and he has still been successful.
3. Brian Kelly- Offensive genius, everywhere he goes, he wins. Back to back National Championships at Grand Valley, a Mac Championship for bottom dwelling Central in just his third year. And in his first year at Cincy he had them competing for the Big East championship until just last week. Plus the spread offense would be fun to watch.
The biggest douches on this board for the year 2007:
1) Magnus
2) WolverRoudy
3) Caup '91
4) UM Alum '97
5) Chitown Blue '00
6) Old fan (for calling Gingell a douchebag)
This board has become like the Republican National Convention for you guys. Just curious, did any one of you NOT vote for Bush in 2000 AND 2004? Do you still think he's a good president? My guess is "yes", just like you think Lloyd is still a good coach. News bulletin for you: President Bush has been the worst president in the history of the U.S. Lloyd Carr is right up there in terms of UM football coaches.
In short:
YOU WERE ALL F*IN WRONG OK! ALL SEASON LONG! ALL LLOYD CARR ERA LONG!
Lloyd has been a really bad college football coach for YEARS. And you continue to say, oh, it's his players or injuries or it's something else that should be blamed. The coaches don't make the plays on the field right? (so stupid) Cooper was a shittier coach than Carr and that's why Carr got the best of him. Tressel is a much better coach than Carr and that's why he gets the better of Carr. It's that simple. Carr never showed an OUNCE of creativity as the head coach. The football we watched was a joke. Boring, unimaginative, predictable don't begin to describe the last 13 years of football under Carr. And your continuous defense of the man as a good coach for all the off-field wonders he worked is ridiculous. The fact that he was a conservative leader of our team and you are conservative people does not make him a good coach. It makes you all lousy evaluators of what's right for the program.
Michigan get the best recruits because it is Michigan. The best kids in the country look at the helmets, the academics, the tradition and say, "I wanna go there." UM is in the top 3 schools for sending guys to the pros. Talent in, talent out. With that kind of talent we should have AT LEAST a .750 winning percentage. We never blow out teams for a reason - subpar coaching. It has nothing to do with class - we play to the level of our competition and that's bad coaching. It's been going on for 40 years now. (See 27-35-1 against OSU and bowl games under Lloyd and Bo.) Take out our dominance over Northwestern, Purdue, Minnesota and the other cupcakes on our schedule and I'd like to see what that winning percentage looks like.
to be continued...
If anyone has not already viewed Lloyd's presser, you should. Mandatory viewing.
Decision was made by Lloyd to retire before the year began. He told Bill after the App State game. Bill has been looking since the second week of the season.
Here is the link.
http://umtv-
live.rs.itd.umich.ed...esser111907.asx
Please note Lloyd's particular comment that "a lot of things are said on the recruiting trail" and that those are left to rest -- ie. Miles and "able"/illness.
Interesting that Lloyd said very specifically that he has his health, "so far as I know".
As far as comments above regarding Miles' "pottymouth" etc, please note that when Bill took the mic he said "damn, Lloyd . . . "
No one that I've ever seen here doubts Lloyd's integrity, class, and likeability as a person. I don't. I liked Lloyd a lot. But he was a really bad coach. A simple example: his allegiance to Mike Debord. As we all know, Mike Debord left Michigan only to fail miserably as the head coach at Central Michigan. So Lloyd brings him back to Michigan to run our offensive. The most disgusting offensive I've ever watched. And it is still widely believed Lloyd would like to see one of his guys take over after he retires (Debord has been mentioned). You call that a good coach? It is loyalty to a fault. It is beautiful when it involves personal relationships. However, when it starts to negatively affect the success of our football program, it has no place.
In sum, I want to clear something up for you 6 douchebags. You were all wrong. Make no mistake about it. When you were riding that 8 game cream puff win streak and asking where did all the Lloyd bashers go... you were wrong. And everything that you post from now on should be dismissed as a result of your horrible evaluation of the UM football program in the Lloyd Carr era. Good day.
Oh, and toronto guy above:
You are not up to speed given your name. 1.25 million is nothing. Any number of donors will pay that for the buyout, if not Les himself. Please remember that Beilein buyout was 2.5 million.
The issue with Miles is not whether he'll take it, but whether it is offered. It sure looks like it will be offered. The ONLY caveat in what I have seen to date is Lloyd's mention that Bill has set out to hire THE BEST COACH in the country. I think that means the best coach for Michigan. Others might imply the best coach does not necessarily mean a Michigan Man. For that reason, guys like Paul Johnson, Kirk Ferentz, and Rodriguez have shots. Otherwise it's a one man show after Harbaugh's comments.
@ Douche:
Add me to that list. Lloyd is a great coach. I will believe that despite 2 of the last 3 seasons. And for those of you only interested in wins and losses (which rightfully defines 80% of a great coach) what was our record last year, and were you complaining like me that we didn't make it to the MNC?
The press conference and Martin comments afterwards (all over at MLive) are pretty interesting in their entirety.
Martin said he's been paying special attention to how coaches handle themselves, particularly after losses. He said he's well aware that the football team is the face of the University. I don't know if Miles passes this basic test. I know Kelly doesn't, particularly with comments he made that were considered racist.
I don't think Kelly even gets a look. After that, I have no idea.
@ Matt K:
I emailed them too, along same lines. Although I emailed it to the "corrections" portion of the site, citing Sportscenter.
Fat Bastard: You can't be added unless you were a douche for the entire year. You've only been seen here as a douche for the past couple of weeks. Don't fret, I'm sure you've been a douche the majority of your life if that helps.
Carr's presser made me rethink my viewpoint about Carr as a coach. Oh wait, no it didn't. Carr is a great guy, a great mentor for student-athletes and loves the UM. He is pure class. But he was not a good football coach.
Douche:
Actually, I've been one of the few consistent Lloyd supporters. You just haven't been paying attention. And no, I didn't expect you to change your mind based on the presser. But if you haven't you should. Assuming you're a Michigan alumni or fan.
Alum & huge fan. All the more reason for my critique of the Lloyd era. We are not a mediocre, conservative group of alums, faculty or students so why settle for a football program that is?
@Watchdog
Why did you wait till now to reveal yourself, I would have loved to see your take on the HORROR and the Oregon game.
OH yeah I remember that play where they let everyone along the defensive line go unblocked. It reminded me in high school and I hope the same thing didn't happen with Mike Hart. In practice, my high school teammates that were offensive linemen hated a particular mouthy running back, so the line decided hey we're not going to block for him and they let everyone run by them and nail him in the backfield on purpose.
I hope Mike Hart didn't piss off the offensive linemen to the point where they said screw it and oleyed the defensive line of Ohio State.
One more thing, Les Miles said something in press conference to the effect of, "I am in great place....I am not thinking about the Michigan opening.......I am preparing for ARE-Kansas."
He pronounced Arkansas as ARE-Kansas. Not Ar-kan-saw, Are-Kansas. No one on Sportscenter made reference to it either, which surprised me. I am not sure if it was on purpose to talk shit, if it was just a slight of tongue, or if he is just an idiot.
@ The Douche Watchdog,
Let the smoke settle. Let all the nostalgia clear the room. When someone retires, moves on, has a life changing experience, dies, etc. it becomes a human interest story and people tend to highlight the "good" or "sentimental" aspects of the person. IE..Very rarely do he hear "He was a piece of shit" at a eulogy.
While I agree with you that said "douchebags" who have defended Carr throughout the year, and over the last few years as a good coach, have indeed been apologists, Lloyd does deserve credit for his performance early in his career.
THat being said, yes, the last 7 years have been a nightmare of predictability and underachievement.
And yes, I totally agree with your analogy to republican party loyalists and Lloyd fans, except Carr actually accomplished something earlier in his tenure, whereas this administration....Not so much. But another thing they definitely have in common...croneyism. Hopefully, Debord and Gittleson are finally gone.
As of 11/5/07 no deeds were registered to either Kathy Miles or Les Miles in Washtenaw County:
http://secure.ewashtenaw.org/
eco...sStartSearch.do
I love how this always breaks down into hardcore pro-Lloyd and hardcore anti-Lloyd. The political analogy is far too spot on, because neither side can see past their own dicks to see the truth is always, always, always somewhere in the middles.
Lloyd? Good and bad. We did win some big games. We lost some big games. Could have been better. But could have been a hell of a lot worse. I remind we're complaining about a team that went to 3 Rose Bowls in my 4 years as a student (03-07) and has done so without a whiff of scandal.
It doesn't matter since I'm already going to be branded a "douche" and "apologist", but let me just toss it out there that I agree it's time for Lloyd to go but I hardly think he has left UM in shambles or been near worthy of the scorn some sides have heaped upon him.
A truly shitty coach would have watched as Michigan imploded this year. Picture John L. at the helm of a team that had the 0-2 start...they'd be lucky to finish 3-9. Yes, I know, it's a catch-22 because Lloyd "caused" the problem to begin with.
I just don't see the need for a pissing contest about who was "right" about the program and who was "wrong". The reality is Lloyd is gone and we can probably put this ridiculous argument to rest sometime soon.
Well said dex...better than the other two (douche guy and BILG).
Is anyone worried about Les Miles' one game against OSU and Tressel: the 2004 Alamo bowl? That was brutal. My guess is that Tressel is not too worried about Miles. Which coach would Tressel be worried about?
This is a total "what-if" scenario, but I was thinking about LSU's BCS run, and the insane audition it represents for Miles.
What if:
1) LSU wins out
2) tOSU squeaks into BCS Championship
3) LSU stomps tOSU but good
If that happens and Miles somehow winds up head coach at Michigan, how insane will the expectations be?
People will expect him to bring home more championships than Bear Bryant!
Yikes!
Jim Grobe bio:
On December 20, 2006, he was named as the 2006 AP Coach of the Year, receiving 39 out of 65 votes and defeating strong contenders like Greg Schiano of Rutgers.
On February 27, 2007, He signed a 10 year contract extension through 2016
http://
wakeforestsports.cstv.com...robe_jim00.html
Is anyone worried about Les Miles' one game against OSU and Tressel: the 2004 Alamo bowl?
Someone raised this issue earlier in the thread. I don't think anyone is all that worried about that game. Miles was coaching Oklahoma State at the time, and Ohio State was clearly more talented. I don't think you can put too much stock into a stingle bowl game (as also noted above, John Cooper got his job at Ohio State based in part upon the fact that he had beaten Michigan in a bowl game in 1987).
As for which coach Tressel would be "worried about," I don't think we have a shot at Urban Meyer.
Err..."single bowl game." I don't know what "stingle" means...sorry.
Interesting side note: if you go to ESPN.com on the front page headlines, it now states "Carr retires from Michigan job on own terms"
Seems like someone heard the complaints and tried to make up a little bit for their terrible SC and ESPNews reporting.
@ Bend It Like Gingell
For someone who is often intolerably...intolerant, your pleas for a cease-fire are somewhat strange. But I'll agree, if only because I'm stunned by your turnaround after calling me a moron for no reason and telling me to get off the board. Hopefully this is a sign of a new and improved BILG.
@ dex
Agreed.
sorry to tear us all away from what is clearly an important debate as to the level of douchebaggery displayed by various commenters on this hallowed blog, but I find myself wondering about our bowl matchups...
I know it is a ways out, but assuming we go to the Alamo Bowl, is there a chance we have a (not-so-granddaddy-worthy) rematch v. Texas?
Anyone have a little time to research likely matchups?
Regarding the "Ar-Kansas" comment by Miles at his press conference yesterday: as was mentioned above, in Kansas and other plains states (including Oklahoma) that is the proper pronunciation of Arkansas City, KS and the Arkansas River (which runs through KS, OK, CO and AR).
See the wikipedia entry below for the Arkansas City entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark..._City%
2C_Kansas
That doesn't completely justify Les's pronunciation, however, since Arkansas is the only state (I believe) that passed a law with an official pronunciation of the state name - AR-kan-saw. But it's understandable why he made the mistake, having lived in Oklahoma for several years.
I hope Les says "Illi-noise" when he gets here.
\Hawaii coach June Jones wanted his football team to open the season at Michigan. The Wolverines wouldn't play the Warriors and instead hosted Division I-AA Appalachian State, which beat Michigan 34-32 in one of the biggest upsets in college football history.//
@ http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/co...ht&
lid=tab3pos3
I know this has probably been covered and beaten to death previously, but Kurt Russell put it best in "3000 Miles to Graceland": "That 'instant karma''s a real motherfucker!" It's as though this whole season resulted as an affront to the volcano gods. There has to be a "Brady Bunch" tie-in here somewhere...I'm just too lazy to look for it.
Some thoughts:
Grobe- Count me as ready to kill someone if they are actually considering Grobe from Wake Forest. Yes, they were pretty good last year, and they're alright this year, but he had been the coach there for the utterly unspectacular 6 years before that, and his career record is around .500. Plus, he plays that absolutely brutal brand of ACC football. ESPN is floating his name.
"BC Guy" - is Jeff Jagodzinski, and this is actually his first year as a head coach at any level - he had been an OL coach at LSU, BC, the Packers, the Falcons, and again the Packers last year. He's clearly done just fine this year, but we really know nothing about his ability to recruit or anything as he's really just inheriting Tom O'Brien's team.
I wish people would stop talking about "Tressel not being worried" with Miles because he beat Miles once, years ago. Even if Okie St. had talent on the level with OSU, it's still meaningless. Have you even heard of the term "small sample size"? The fact that Tressel beat Miles once, 7 years ago, is not at all predictive of what would occur in the future.
Well, add me to the douchebag list, because I never thought Lloyd was a bad coach. I did think, however, that Lloyd was an underperforming coach, given the resources at his disposal and the competition in his conference.
Lloyd Carr always was and always will be a 9-3 man, and the Michigan program is much better than that. But going 9-3 at Michigan is not a firing offense, especially given Lloyd's national title in '97 and multiple Big Ten titles. Lloyd did enough good for the Program to stay, even if he wasn't maximizing what could be done with the Program. I always wanted Lloyd to retire, but I never wanted Lloyd to be fired.
So that makes me a douchebag, I guess.
This is the most pathetic thread I have ever read. I have been a loyal reader of the blog for a long time (although i don't post much).
1. Arguing over who was right about Lloyd Carr is a joke. If you can't step back and realize he was somewhere in the middle (very good at times, he won a NC... and very bad at times, OSU losses) then you are not being realistic. IMO
2. New coaching candidates: Les Miles not "polished". And someone else's quote "Anyone but Les". I mean I understand these are opinions and I'm not 100% set on Les, but how much more "polished" than Les can a coach be?? Bill Belicheck? Let's be honest here, given what is out there in the coaching landscape he seems like a pretty good option. That man LOVES Michigan and would do anything in his power (including bringing in the right people) to get this program to the level of expectations that we (ridiculous fan base) put on them.
OK I think I just convinced myself that I want Les Miles as the coach. Sorry for the rant but this thread was obnoxious so i wanted to jump in.
Woo! I'm in the Top 3! All you other douches can suck it!!
how the hell did i get excluded from the douche list? i feel totally left out. frowns...
The only douchebag is the person branding others douchebags. Wait, I guess that makes me a douchebag for calling the douchebag brander a douchebag.
Also, douchebag.
Can we have post or something called "Items that will have no bearing on the hiring or non-hiring of Les Miles?" These can include the buyout, the 2004 Outback Bowl, "fucking Alabama", pronounciation of the word Arkansas, the ugly plaid sportscoat, really good gumbo and Fats Domino.
The 2004 Outback featured Iowa and Florida, so that reaaaaallllly wouldn't matter.
Let's go with 2004 Alamo Bowl.
Not sure how I'm in not on the douchebag list. You OBVIOUSLY don't know me :)
MRG, agreed. on a related note, does anyone think Les's work with the levi reconstruction will make him consider staying in NOLA? or his fondness for living below the 40th parallel? i also hear the barbers in the bayou (sp?) are 2nd to none, fwiw.
All this talk of how polished Miles is and how stupid he may be and how Carr quotes Kipling shows just how much Carr has imprinted himself on Michigan football. The next coach will have his own style. He will not be Lloyd Carr.
It looks to me like Miles is less cerebral and restrained than Carr. Miles is more driven emotionally. Where Carr was dispassionate, Miles makes decisions more with his heart (or testicles.) The people that love Miles do so specifically for this trait. He could certainly bring a swagger that the scared, moribund Michigan fans could benefit from. As long as Miles doesn’t make a habit of dropping F-bombs publicly I’m not concerned. Most coaches talk that way—read their lips on the sideline. Miles just happened to do it on camera and I bet his audience loved it. It’s not like Carr hasn’t had undignified spats with the press.
The weird thing is, it’s not like Bo and Woody were bland in the way Carr and Tressel have been. (I was floored when even OSU fans were suggesting Miles was not classy enough. And that’s not a shot at OSU but recognition that the patriarch of their program was hardly a boy scout.)
As far as Okie St. losing to OSU. Yes, Miles’ team played horribly but Miles was already LSU’s coach. ‘Beating Tressel’ is not some mystical ability to chase. Have a good team, play good football, and you’ll win your share. I think a measure of unpredictability would shake up the OSU/UM dynamic in Michigan’s favor.
Big10 Bowls:
Rose: #1/PAC10 #1 OSUvsARIZ STATE
Capital One: #2/SEC#2 ILLINOISvsTENN/GEORGIA
Outback: #3/SEC#3/4 UMICH/UWISCvsFLORIDA/AUBURN
Alamo: #4/5 vs Big12#4/5 UMICH/UWISC/PENN STATEvsTEXAS TECH/COLORADO
Champs Sports: #4/5 vs ACC#4 UMICH/PENN STATEvsCLEMSON/WAKE
Insight: #6vs Big12 #6 Iowa?/Indiana?/Michigan State?/Purdue?/Northwestern?vsAny Big12 that qualifies most impressively this weekend. No one else qualifies yet.
Motor City: #7vs MAC #1/2 Same list as above vs MIAMI(OH)/CENTRAL MICHIGAN
Rose Bowl: ASU has to beat USC&ARIZONA @home
Capital One: Georgia is done w/ regular season conference games, if Tennessee beats Kentucky, Tennessee wins the SEC East. Two of these three will make the BCS. It depends which gets the BCS at large. I would assume Georgia due to higher ranking, leaving Tennessee out cold. If Tennessee beats LSU though, Georgia would be in this game, unless god help us LSU drops from the BCS.
Outback: From what I hear, standings only mean so much at this point, hence including Wisconsin. Florida and Auburn may have identical records in conference if Auburn beats Alabama, plus they have the head to head win.
Alamo: Again, not sure about what records mean at this point. We had an abysmal crowd there in 05. Our poor travel may hurt us, that and App State. Assuming the Big12 has 2 BCS teams, a big12 north team in the cotton bowl, texas in the pacific life, that leaves Texas Tech the most likely fit here. (does this mean I start praying for the...)
Champs Sports: it's us or Penn State at this point. I'm hoping were a better bowl than this, but Alamo seems most likely if actual conference record is only a suggestion. God help me if I lose to my sister's school featuring a spread offense with a moderately mobile qb, but at least we'd dominate this matchup I think. Clemson holds the head to head in this. If ACC somehow gets 2 BCS teams, it should be wake.
the rest it doesnt matter and there is no way to sort through this right now. We have way too many eligible teams, Big12 and PAC10 right now is short a few teams to fill requirements. And hell, teams like Miss State are bowl eligible. Who knows where everyone will slide in.
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