Fantastic
just keeps getting better..
Got the coordinates for the Michigan Athletic Department? Got an extra cruse missle that needs programming.
Something still isn't adding up here. I'm going to kill a kitten here, but it is as if we are shooting ourselves in the foot in order to settle for a DeBord. I'd rather have English, but I still think we can do better.
Lmao....wow thats some educated bullshit excuse. I like that!!!!!!!!!!!
Case in point above of why a no comment would have been better.
I suspect "USS Ron Rnglish" has already sailed as well.
Is anyone else starting to come to the realization that Miles didn't actually want to come to AA? He knew that UM wanted him and was going to talk to him after the SEC title game, yet he agrees to re-up with LSU before the game? Come on.
Serious question:
Does Martin not know that his entire legacy as AD is on the line w/ this hire?
God, I have to break my addiction to these threads today.
Someone seriously needs to pull BM aside in the Athletic Department and tell him, very politely, that he's making himself look like a douche and embarrassing the university.
Christ, it would have been better for him just to say that Michigan had decided to go in a different direction than Miles and knew as much on Saturday when the agent called.
You know, that song ultimately ends up with aliens taking off into outer space. Maybe Bill Martin is an evil android from the planet Zorg, sent back in time to earth to keep Michigan football from taking over the galaxy in the year 2057 because it pissed off the Galactic Ruler, Tressel-ZX1.
ok guys, heres the deal. We may not get Les Miles, but we also very well still may. BM is a smart guy, i have spoken and listened to him personally. He loves michigan and will bring the best possible candidate here....aka Les Miles. If not, it will be because of Les and no one else.
This is not over and done with. BM is like a fox hiding in the weeds waiting to pounce.
Mark my words....and if i am right I want to hear you all tell me I am right. If not I will tell u all that too....but this ordeal with Les is not done with and we will end up with MY #1 choice and many of yours too, Mr. Firecracker, "My team is damn good" Les Miles.
Please, Brian...going over this publically is like being pantsed in front of the hottest chick in school...only you've just gotten out of the swimming pool and you've got a George Costanza-sized case of "shrinkage" going on.
Okay, so it's painfully obvious Martin/Carr didn't want Miles. Got it. Don't agree with it! But got it.
But did Bloyd Carrtin anticipate the diarrhea hurricane that snubbing the Wolverine Coaching Superstar would cause????
And will anyone in their right mind want to step into this postion, realizing they have a hostile "show me NOW" fanbase all worked up???
This is so fucking bad.
MichiganStudent-
I hope you are right, and if you are I will kindly oblige to your request!
BM is a very polite and naive fox who cannot use a treo...
I am trying to stay on the side that he is not coming but I can't make myself stay over there lol. I need to stop holding out hope, someone yell at me!
What a load of crap. Miles agent said publicly he didn't expect to hear from Michigan until Sunday. Miles and his agent put a gun to Michigan's head for no damn reason except to leverage one or the other for the best deal. All while LSU's biggest game of the year awaited.
What you all see in a man who displays that kind of character and has that set of priorities is beyond me.
Michigan Student:
Unless you are currently Bill Martin's intern with access to his malfunctioning Blackberry, please pull yourself out of the land of pop songs and make believe.
That, or give up how you have this supposed "knowledge." I've talked to Bill Martin, too, and he didn't seem omnipotent to me.
Plan Fuck Up Miles Hire.
Complete.
Everything was coordinated, from the retirement announcement to the request for permission to the sailing trip to the "3-4 candidates" comment on Sunday.
We are bush league.
Munch Munch Munch...Martin's Out To Lunch!!!
Munch Munch Munch...Martin's Out To Lunch!!!
Munch Munch Munch...Martin's Out To Lunch!!!
Munch Munch Munch...Martin's Out To Lunch!!!
Any analogy that compares BM to a fox loses all credibility unless the fox is in someway retarded or druck/high... And really stupid. Like Bill Martin.
I meant "drunk"
allmanski:
I'd like you to attend one of our tailgates at the Stadium next year. Unless I've sold my season tickets after Brady Hoke's been hired, that is.
We all need to chill, seriously. I am pissed and am trying to relax because it shouldnt be goign down this way...but you know what? IT IS! It looks grim, it looks bad, but beleive me stranger things have happened and will happen in the future.
Basically Michigan is working in silence on this search, giving open ended and non descriptive answers. We have a list of 20...which means what?
ABSOLUTLY NOTHING. BM is being secretive, becuase he should be. Its better than being very public and letting us retarted public ruin it. AKA ESPN and Kirk Herby. So just let it run its course.
BM is smart and I trust him, he has kept this university in great standing for a number of years...and if you all didnt know, he doesnt get paid. He has 0 salary. His parking spot he changes throughout the office to different people each week. He is Mr. Michigan and he will bring in a great guy...my guess is still Les Miles.
what was the worst thing that couldve happened if martin hired miles....this is such an obvious hire that even if it didn't work out, you could've never blamed martin for it
MDan-
In case you didn't see it. I requested in the previous thread that you write a new editorial on the situation with regards to the Martin interview. I like your insight. Go for it!
what's worse of course is that martin HAD been in contact with miles' representative before sunday. we know that.
Serious question:
Has there ever been another case were a university was trying to pluck another major university's head coach away on the eve of a conference and/or national championship game? I know it happens all the time with assistants - but this should be different.
Let's say the shoe were on the other foot - how would you react if they were coming after your guy?!?
I don't blame Martin for dodging this land mine at all. Even if it does mean avoiding a call or two. Is Miles really worth blowing up your university's reputation over???
DCBlue... yea I'd love to come to a tailgate as long as I can burn bill martin in effigy and cry myself to sleep in a corner... who am I kidding... I'm just going to cry
DCBlue,
Brady Hoke is at least going to a bowl game. The closest Debord got to a bowl game as a head coach involve bags of tostitos he munches on as he draws up the game plan on crayons.
I believe we have finally opened up the soft underbelly of Michigan Athletics all the way. At his retirement conference, Carr stated that the next head coach would be one who, paraphrasing, is committed to winning with integrity. I believe we now know which is more important to the people in charge. Integrity, to a fault. College athletics should have integrity, and that should not be sacrificed, but at some point, when you want 250 million dollar stadium renovations, and 28 million dollar facilities, fees for the right to buy season tickets, fees to be on the waiting list for season tickets, and to put your product on its own network, YOU HAVE PLAY TO WIN.
Further, it is growing increasingly troubling that he was in FLA with "donors." He was in NY the other night "raising money with donors." Is the need for money for the staduim renovations impacting the coaching search negatively? If so, than Martin needs to become an associate athletic director, and someone with an appreciation for the athletic side needs to be in charge.
VERY Concerning.
\blowing up your university's reputation//
I guess it's all about perspective...I had pretty much conceded Michigan's reputation to the dustbin of history with the loss to App State.
Golden Grizzly:
We live in the world of 20 second soundbites that no one remembers after 2 minutes. If you see something you want, you go after it, especially when the agent calls YOU for christ sake.
If Martin didn't want Miles, fine, just say that and give your reasons. But his excuses just make him look like he's retarded.
Ben From SF-
THAT was funny, can you picture it, I can.
DC Blue- He is a very intelligent man. He knows what he is doing. That is all i am saying. Quit getting pissed. I have been down that road and all it does is just ruin your mood and day. This will pan out. At least I hope. I have faith and I think you should too.
And to be honest we all know fuck all about the inner workings of this search. Unless you are BM, LM, MSC or any other person on the search committe then you dont know what is really going on. OKAY? GOOD!
All of the press and statements mean jack shit to me. Its just a ploy to keep things PC for now and do it the "right way...
One of the biggest days of the decade for this program and the effing AD decides to go on a freaking boat ride! WTF?
Dude, you're filthy rich. You don't even get paid for the AD job. If you don't want to do the work then give up the position to someone else.
At the beginning of this search I thought the goal was to improve the team. Apparently, that wasn't even a priority. Apalling.
Brian,
you're not doing yourself or anyone else any favors by getting consistently really worked up about things when no one actually knows what happened or is happening. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and let things take their course.
no, zoltan is emperor of space, he would not allow it
DC Blue,
So what you're saying is that contracts in college sports should no longer be respected by someone else. Hey if you want something, go after it - consequences be damned?
Is that really where we want to be - where no one respects anyone else and coaches just jump willy-nilly as the wind blows?
Screw the kids, screw the donors, and screw the university?
@ Golden Grizzly
Talk to Nick Saban.
Again -
BM's exuses on MLive are crap. Their publicly acknowledged candidate list is crap. This whole process reeks of amateurism. Things should have been worked out by and large before this point (they should have known who is and isn't available/possible before Lloyd's announcement - so that they would be in the position to make a rapid succession of interviews and a timely hire)
----------
I can't blame Miles. He has a good thing going there - SEC and thereby NC level contender. Why the hell would he risk losing his players (which would have been potentially for good, not just this season) for nothing guaranteed - much less something that has been admitted hasn't even been offered to the slightest degree...?
---------------------
One thing is guaranteed. Making the wrong decision here (making a bad choice) could be suicide for the program. This isn't the old days. While it is true that UM still has some clout due to the name (like the OUs, the Miami's, etc) if anything has been shown time and again, it is that due to the new parity in CFB, regardless of name, if you aren't moving forward it, is easy to slip back, and easy to quickly be rendered irrelevant (see Nebraska, FSU etc).
------------
My main issue isn't Miles himself (although I admit I like him the most) - it is the apparent incompetence of the way this whole thing is being handled. It is giving M an even bigger air of incompetence nationally than all the recent RB losses and OSU losses combined...
My point exactly Ben. My point exactly.
Golden Grizzly:
What I'm saying is that MICHIGAN agreed not to contact Miles until after the SEC Championship. All bets are off when MILES contacts Michigan. Further, LSU itself had NO PROBLEMS with Michigan talking to Miles' agent. Martin, most likely while wearing a really ugly sailing jacket and holding a supposedly malfunctioning blackberry, decided not to call the agent.
Christ. This is Martin's own fucking version of the events.
@ Griese4MVP - "At the beginning of this search I thought the goal was to improve the team."
Unfortunately, I got the feeling at the beginning of the search the goal was to maintain the status quo.
I really think everyone should read Yost on all of this:
http://michiganzone.blogspot.com...higan-
fans.html
This whole exchange reminds me of the immortal words of Michael Jordan.
When told that there was no "I" in team, he responded, "Yeah, but there is in win." There was abso-fucking-lutely nothing unethical about Martin talking to Miles' agent on Saturday, or earlier.
Can you add a "hate" tag to all of the posts detailing the foul-ups of Bill Martin a.k.a. Mr. Magoo? I was disappointed by losing out on Miles. I wish we would have had a better season this year for Henne, Long, Hart and Lloyd. But man, at least these people tried. Physical mistakes can be forgiven, mental mistakes cannot. Thus, Bill Martin stirs up hate in my heart. Can we document this? Thanks.
Come on DC. Contact is contact, no matter who initiates it!
As for LSU talking with him - he was under contract to them!!! They can talk any time they want without anyone's permission!! Miles was not a free agent here - he was/is LSU's "property"! So of course there is no problem with conversations! That is the point - Michigan is the outsider in this whole deal.
@MillerTime-we're talking about the same Bill Martin that conducted a flawless BBall search like 6 months ago, right? The way people are willing to kill the guy without even knowing what's going on is just mind-boggling.
Great. A rich yuppy screws up the hiring process because he'd rather be out of touch on his luxury yacht than taking care of business. What a slacker.
Still, this seems odd to me. This summer I canoed the Boundary Waters by myself for a week and was well out of cell phone range. Renting a satellite phone was only a few dollars a day. I didn't use it since I only got it for emergencies, but I have to assume that anyone who can afford a luxury yacht can afford one of these. You know, in addition to the two-way VHF radios that are already on most yachts. Even a powerful CB radio would do the trick wonderfully.
If I were this irresponsible at my job I'd be canned instantly.
Golden - to politely disagree..
"So what you're saying is that contracts in college sports should no longer be respected by someone else."
How many coaches aren't under contract?
The contract serves only between the coach and the university for as long as they both agree to work together. Coaches can be fired or resign at any time.
You missed my point completely, Golden Grizzly. LSU had not problems with Michigan talking to Miles' agent -- AD Bertman said as much in the Detroit News article over a week ago. Spicy BM didn't read the article, as reference in his MLive interview. Apparently, he was too busy using the rotary dial phone on his sailboat at the time to call Blackberry customer service.
I believe Martin- and what we know the most about him is his basketball hire- will end up with a wise hire. Second, it is not inconceivable that LSU put their gun to Miles' head and said, "do you want to stay here or be unemployed?"
Carr, most believe, does not like Miles. Martin may or he may not. However, Martin had to look as if he was going after Miles even if he had no intention of landing him. When the gun was put to Miles' head and he had no guarantee or even offer from Michigan, Miles did the smart thing.
I believe Martin was looking another direction than Miles the entire time, but for PR felt compelled to put feelers out. Martin made a GREAT [at this point] hire with Beilein, and being a shrewd individual, it is hard to comprehend that this search- which is being conducted in private, BTW, so it makes sense that ALL of us know next to nothing- will end in a similar matter.
The sky is not falling.
can you really blame him?
Let's say LSU did hold a gun to his head. If Michigan was really his dream, the takes the risk of being fired and paid off by LSU.
It's not like the rest of us - by now he could not work a day for the rest of his life and be completely taken care of.
I get what you are saying DC - but there are now two versions of the Martin/Bertman conversation out there. I don't know which to believe, but I do know that Martin believes that talking to the agent = contact with the coach. It's hard to disagree because of what happened in this situation- had Bass provided the info from Martin to Miles, it would have interfered with his negotiations with LSU before the SEC Championship game.
Something that was requested by LSU not to happen.
I must agree. It's possible that Martin screwed up but I would bet against that scenario every time. This is not a "rich yuppy" as someone said. This guy is smart, well respected, loves Michigan and is a tireless worker. His whole career demonstrates that. I am disappointed missing out on Miles like most are but to assume that it happened due to Martin's incompetence is something I cannot accept without great evidence to the contrary (which we do not have).
chengelis was just on espn. with 0 credible information that means anything... martin 20 candidate, we know none, she doesnt think ferentz has been contacted, hoke had a conversation but no interview, debord/english have been interviewed, 15% chance miles still comes (ppl inside supposedly pushing for miles)
nothing.
whoops. can you really blame him?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v...h?
v=vqfz1l9s6k0
does this mean he's not coming?
Martin is supposed to be a businessman?
Any large corporation uses a headhunter/search firm to negotiate a major hire(CEO, CFO, Etc) while allowing the candidate to maintain their current standing, to do the "legwork" behind the scenes, and to prevent any fallout for the candidate with their current leadership...
Martin has never heard of this or thought of this approach?
This is ridiculous...
Why don't poeple understand, including whoever that clown is over on Michiganzone, that the process was designed by Michigan to fail?
No one is angry for Martin for honoring his word. We are angry that he has repeated set this up to fail. Clearly pursuing an agenda that including pretending to woo Miles while making it near impossible to actually get him, Martin turned this process into a clusterfuck.
That guy is an idiot.
Next Bill Martin is going to go on the record and say "the canvas (me) can do miracles...just you wait and see...believe me."
A little birdie told me that BM contacted Urban Meyer's agent today.
that is all
@MDan-
I actually am more annoyed that he went on record and said "Yeah I got the message and chose not to call back" a simple no comment would have been better than that. To me, that makes him sound idiotic.
MDan-
Because any process that ends up with Les Miles not being the coach is by definition not a failure.
My father (who lives in rural Michigan) just called me to talk about BM's press conference. My dad's quote: "His mouth was running like the clapper on a goose's ass in blueberry season." I'm not sure what the fuck that means, but I laughed my ass off over it.
This is the same man who warned me about Michigan football: "They never fail to disappoint." Prophetic, given the current state of things.
AAB:
Looking at the Tressel and Carroll hirings make me even more - not less - angry.
Do you remember those searches? Because I do, and it was clear, that while frustrating for them that they didn't get their man, that they had a PLAN.
I refuse to believe this crap about "Martin has his process and is keeping it under the radar". We have seen nothing to indicate this. True, we aren't in his office, we don't know whats going on, but has anyone seen anything that would make them think they have gone to #2,3,4 or 5 of their fabled "list of 20"?
Because that's what happened when OSU and USC - hell even ND didn't get their first choices - BAM on to the next one, even as they were raked over the coals by the media.
How do we know that Martin hasn't contacted #s 2-5? Well, aside from the fact that he basically said so himself earlier this week, in today's world of flight tracking and "sources" there haven't even been FAKE sources let alone any real ones .
When anyone can basically find out what the President of the United States (or Mangino) has for lunch on any given day, I find it hard to believe that a guy who couldnt hide the fact that he was on a freaking sail boat, can hide that he is talking to any candidates.
Unlike Martin's boat, this coaching search is clearly rudderless.
AD -
You are cruel. Stop toying with my emotions.
martin should just shut up and not hire a coach at all. it would make him look a lot better than he does now...
@ sardonic and AAB re: the sky not falling.
I am not in a total panic, but in this year's version of musical coaching chairs, if M does not settle on one soon, other good prospects will either be snapped up (Pellini at Neb, etc.) or recommitted (Miles).
The fear is that the longer the process is drawn out, the greater the likelyhood that M is standing alone when the music stops. And you know what that means.
Introducing the nest Head Coach for the University of Michigan...Mike Debord.
As I said earlier, I got the feeling at the beginning of the search the goal was to maintain the status quo. Carr and Martin have said as much.
When all else fails…blame technology!
No.9 hamburgers…. putting hunger pangs in a headlock since 2005
I love the argument that "Hey, USC and OSU didn't get their first choices, and look how that worked out!" You know who else didn't get their first choice? Notre Dame. How's that working out? Besides, tOSU was choosing between Tressel and Glen Mason. The fact that Mason might have been their first choice speaks volumes. (And doesn't the idea of hiring Ferentz seem a lot like OSU chasing Mason?)
Their goal was to have Lloyd hand the ball off to Debord or English, my guess, and it may very well happen. however, replace Lloyd with Mallett and Debord with anyone, and well, FUMBLE!
"If Michigan was really his dream, the takes the risk of being fired and paid off by LSU.
It's not like the rest of us - by now he could not work a day for the rest of his life and be completely taken care of."
Are you freaking kidding me?
"I will quit or risk promised firing from my great job which has me in contention every year for the SEC championship and therefore the NC, to put my application in the mail and hope for a reply."
This truly is the perfect storm, simply because of the position LSU is in as far as the national championship goes and because of Miles professed love of Michigan.
If LSU was 9-3 and playing in the Capital One bowl, this would have all been over completely by now.
Not enough people are putting enough weight in to the fact that this is uncharted territory as far as possibly trying to get a head coach away from a school that is performing better than you are at this time of year.
I don't see how this thing could have worked out favorably for everyone given the current circumstances.
As for the timing of Carr's retirement - he announced it privately in September for pete's sake! How could he know then what the situation was going to be now!?!
For those of you still defending Martin, Carr, MarySue...
Name someone who is a better candidate than Les Miles.
Use these 5 parameters:
1. Winning %
2. Ability to bring in quality assistants
3. Recruiting
4. Salary
5. Alumni Relations
In my opinion, Les Miles is the #1 candidate, and no one else comes even close. Hence my anger...
This is tiring..
Is there a chance that there may be something out there about Miles that only Martin, and a select few others, only know about. It's starting to get all too obvious by this point that Michigan has had very little interest in this guy.
Is there a thought from anyone out there that, the more of this story that comes out, the more we will be very grateful for not hiring him?
@Nblue
no one knew what was going on with the basketball search until it was basically finished. It was a masterful job of keeping things under the radar. Given that precedent, it seems unwise to me to assume that nothing organized is going on simply because we don't see any outward signs of it.
Then again, my opinion is impossibly colored by my relief that Miles won't be the coach. To me this process is a success so far just for that reason, so I realize I'm not coming at this from the most unbiased prospective ever.
Apparently some visitors have missed the whole point of internet blogging.
It lets everyone (regardless of stature, intelligence, working for a newspaper, etc.) say WHATEVER THEY WANT without interruption.
You can read it. You can ignore it. You can reply. You don't have to reply.
That's why anyone should be here. If you're not comfortable with that --- go back to reading all that "information" in the main stream media or turn on ESPN.
And, it you can't take criticism FUCK OFF -- YOU DON'T BELONG HERE.
After all, the criticism is anonymous. No one knows the real identity of all of US ASSHOLES (MYSELF INCLUDED).
.
Well said, Ben.
Blue Durham,
Can you imagine the shit storm if Debord is introduced as the HC?
"This truly is the perfect storm, simply because of the position LSU is in as far as the national championship goes and because of Miles professed love of Michigan.
If LSU was 9-3 and playing in the Capital One bowl, this would have all been over completely by now"
Agreed on this point however. My lone hope is that this is all BM biding time until after the NC. Any other explanation for the apparent incompetence is staggering.
No, I'm not kidding 97Alum.
This is probably it for a chance for Miles to be HC at Michigan. If it was truly his dream, he had to take a chance. But if he's just as happy at LSU, so be it. Looks like we know what his answer is.
@Ben
I'm not sure "winning percentage" is the best metric when talking about a coach at a program like LSU.
That's like saying Ozzie Guillen must be a good coach because he won a world series.
Hey, I spilled OJ on my blackberry last night, and now all the button are sticky. It happens.
Golden Grizzly sez.."As for the timing of Carr's retirement - he announced it privately in September for pete's sake! How could he know then what the situation was going to be now"
I think that make is worse! Everyone involved knew that Carr was hanging up his whistle in september and did nothing until now. I’m no mathematician but that sounds like 16 weeks of lost search time.
AAB,
Ozzie Guillen may be an illiterate foul mouth, but he won a championship. He must have done something right.
Ben from SF -
Imagine the shit storm? I expect it. As said above, it seems Michigan never fails to disappoint (yeh, yeh, yeh, '97 and all that).
But that shit storm would be muffled by all of the applause and back-slapping coming out of the present admin. and coaching staff.
AAB:
Fair enough on not liking Miles (and don't get me wrong only a small part of my beef is with not getting Miles, most of my beef being that it appears they don't know what the heck they are going to do now) , but was the basketball search really all that discrete? Beilien's name was mentioned from the start and there were always rumors of meetings, etc.
I remember being at a wedding and telling a friend of mine who is a WVU grad that we just stole their coach, and that had to be 3 or 4 days before it was officially announced, so its not like we woke up one day and were shocked it was Beilein.
"Agreed on this point however. My lone hope is that this is all BM biding time until after the NC. Any other explanation for the apparent incompetence is staggering."
And the longer this goes on (no real word on a coach), the more likely that scenario becomes.
Imagine subjecting yourself to all this MMQB to get the guy you really want without compromising the standards of the university.
As Deirdorf said, who knows we may all wind up patting Martin on the back for a job well done after all this is over.
AAB is right.
Winning % is strongly tied up into the school. 8-4 at Michigan has people calling for bodies. 8-4 at Northwestern gets a parade through Evanston. 10-2 at LSU is met with a shrug, while 11-3 at Wake Forest last year almost got Grobe a statue. The simple reason? Because of funding, recruiting base, and school prestige, a large portion of record is out of the coach's hands.
"If it was truly his dream, he had to take a chance."
So therefore if I tell you to immediately send me $100, on the promise that I may consider sending you back $500 you would do it?
Or more so - quit you job, risk your livelyhood, and give up everything that makes you happy (cause if he can't coach at M I am sure coaching and winning makes him big time happy) and maybe in a few weeks I will let you know your dream job is yours...
Dude.
It's a catch 22 No. 9 - if you search, you essentially tell the world that Carr is gone. Martin allowed Carr to make that call himself.
Some call it classy. Others call it incompetent. I lean toward the former.
Again @ Ben in SF (and also MDan)
Remember, we are MICHIGAN, and all we have to do is out-execute everyone else and not care what other teams or people think!!!
So we don't have to care what shit storm erupts, because we are MICHIGAN!
@Ben
Ozzie Guillen thinks bunting is the smartest strategy in the world. His solution to the White Sox's crappy season is to bunt more.
It's entirely possible for a team to win even though they have a mediocre coach, or even in spite of a bad coach. That's especially true when you're dealing with a program that has Louisiana as its home recruiting turf. There may be evidence out there that Les Miles is a good coach, but his record at LSU isn't really it.
97 - that kind of stuff happens all the time in the real world. Plenty of people quit jobs to chase a dream not knowing how its all going to work out.
blah blah blah to the we are Michigan thing. No one cares anymore that we are Michigan. Michigan doesn't threaten anyone, doesn't make them scared, athletically. Academically it's still one of the best. Athletically, no one gives a crap anymore.
AAB, The USC and OSU situations were different. They were getting in new hires, out of the system and had no "Michigan MAn"/"Job seeks you" conditions. Now if MArtin can go ahead and get somebody and they clean house, i am fine with, but what confidence you have in him to do that?? Personally, i have zero confidence and he is not doing himself any favors by messing the Miles things up sooo bad!! If you can assuage those fears fine, if not there is every reason to be concerned!!!
And for the record, Yost is anti-miles, please read his post after their loss to Arkansas, if someone just copied and pasted just the content, your first guess would have been "Oh Pete Fuitak wrote this thing in CFN.scout.com" It was pathetic!!
@97Alum - I can think of another logical reason to turn down Miles and not publicize why - good evidence that the guy is dirty and that he would "Ed Martin" the football program.
I think we can all agree that the basketball team losing to Harvard is in no small way related to a bunch of "loans" issued 15 years ago. I think we can also agree that if M Football had a similar scandal that we would all be very, very sad, and that the after effects would linger for far too long.
Then why say nothing? MAybe you don't want to throw the guy under the NCAA Infractions Committee bus. Bad karma.
Then why express any interest (i.e. ask for permission to speak with him)? Maybe you need to do a little politicking to appease former players.
I don't know.
But, if we operate under the assumption that Bill MArtin actually, you know, has a brain and likes Michigan, then the "weeeee!!! sailing!!!!!" story doesn't seem to fit.
"the longer this goes on, the more likely that scenario becomes.
Imagine subjecting yourself to all this MMQB to get the guy you really want..."
Agreed - if this is all a big giant smokescreen, people will LOVE BM for it and commend him to no end for being such a "master" of negotiation. In the meantime though people will freak out (and BM would and should expect it)
Of course if there is not master plan other than what we are seeing.... yikes.
Chitownblue 00
Excellent points.
However, I still argue, a 10-2 record at LSU is a good predictor of success at Michigan.
Honestly, one side of me still pines for Brian Kelly. However, I just don't think his style and personality meshes with the current administration.
What's wrong with using Carr for this search. Do people think that Martin has a better football mind than Lloyd?
I think that in order to be a great AD, you need tons of help from those around you that specialize in each specific area (i.e., hockey, volleyball, etc.). Martin is here as an organizational leader, Carr is the football leader. Martin needs Carr.
@ Original C
I know Yost is anti-Miles. So am I. It makes me happy to know there's someone else out there. It doubles the population.
You are entitled to your opinion, please voice it, but at the same time try please tell me who else is a good hire at this point. Not just, the name, but who is a realistic candidate. Kelly, maybe but you can make a case for him, chris peterson.... yes same as kelly, but other than these guys who else man. And yes, Miles stacks up very very favorably with these guys!!!
AAB,
Who is your guy then? Brian Kelly? Jim Grobe?
Tremendous
"Plenty of people quit jobs to chase a dream not knowing how its all going to work out."
That is different than this. There is future work involved there. You give up a job to go back to school for a career, not to send in an application and hope someone says "eureka!" and hires you. You aren't waiting, hoping for a guy to say "you are the man" when he could have said it already.
He has a team in contention for the NC. A rare gem. By all means you don't give up your diamond to hope someone gives you another one you happen to like better.
Chasing a dream is one thing... What you are talking about is an irrational gamble hinging on another man's subjective decision.
We are missing one aspect of being a coach that Michigan prizes at which Miles fails: academic performance.
Never at OSU or at LSU has Miles has a 4-year running graduation % over 60%. Not once. Michigan has never been below 70%. I'm not even suggesting Miles is a cheat, what I'm saying is that:
LSU give scholarships to academic non-qualifiers while Michigan does not.
LSU puts significantly more people on the "just make them do enough to stay eligible" track than Michigan. This probably dissuades a certain # of recruits.
LSU, for the past 3 years, has been below the NCAA's benchmark ARP (Academic Rate of Progess) score. Michigan has a HUGE amount of reputation involved in staying above that mark.
As football fans, some of us may not care about this. I'm sure that the administration does.
i think we just need to find a way for ilitch to buy the AD from the state of michigan.
My guy has always been Jon Tenuta, but he doesn't really have a chance at the job. Given realistic candidates, my top 5 is probably:
1. Tedford
2. Schiano
3. Grobe
4. English
5. Kelly
There are about 15 other guys I'd take before Miles, including Ferentz (but not Debord)
Orginal C:
Jim Grobe is a phenomenal coach, who Michigan should only be so lucky as to get. In all seriousness.
I don’t need a big name coach…what I do want is the opponent in the other locker room sitting in a puddle “of their own making” sniffling with a snot bubble in their nose because they know they are about to get their azzes whopped!…not only the big 10…but nation wide.
I want other schools to realize that when they have Michigan on their schedule, the just mark it as a loss for their home team without even thinking.
But hey….I like to dream….
And now….a word from our sponsors…
"I can think of another logical reason to turn down Miles and not publicize why - good evidence that the guy is dirty and that he would "Ed Martin" the football program."
If Les was really that bad, I am sure someone would have blew the whistle on him already. Anonymously or otherwise.
For all the Martin bashing, one thing is for sure, he would NEVER put this team in the hands of a dude who had a losing record at CMU. NEVER. He's not that big of an idiot. Almost nobody is (thank god Carr isn't AD right now). I'm am convinced MDB will not be our coach. Now, if he never was HC at CMU, he'd probably have a better shot b/c his record there sucked, and was better before and after his reign.
@ 00goblue00 -
I must have failed at my attempts at levity. I was just pointing out to Ben in SF, a resulting shit-storm from a Mike Debord hire to HC would not be of concern to the admin. since it would be in line with the present coaching staff's lack of concern with what opponents gameplan. The we are Michigan and only have to focus on our own execution and all of that.
@Ke7in
Where to begin answering your question?...
how about, Carr is a conservative, dated coach, so he will push for a conservative, dated replacement.
Sorry, but I don't want to watch an offense with 4 plays in the playbook and a defense that can't stop the spread for the next 10 years!
Good lord, we need to move forward. The direction is far far away from Lloyd Carr.
That coach from somewhere, grsimmons?? says Grobe is a fine x and o guy, but can he recruit?? And no for the final time, MICHIGAN DOES NOT RECRUIT TOP TEN TALENT BY ITSELF!!
Eh, Schiano gets lots of Juco kids, alot of academic non-qualifiers, and doesn't make any of them go to school. Michigan won't allow him to do that. If he came here, he'd fail.
@ Original C
The USC and OSU situations were different.
I realize we're pretty much in the dark now about the Michigan "search", but my recollection of the OSU search was that there was even less public information than there is for the Michigan one.
The OSU fanbases were going nuts with "Gruden is on the plane" and so forth, and fantasizing about Bob Stoops, or -- looniest of all -- demanding Chris Spielman get a shot... but I don't think that was based on any inside information. I don't think anyone really knows much about what happened. Certainly nothing came out that was comparable to the "sailing" episode -- where we know who called whom.
Glen Mason was actively campaigning for the OSU job, but clearly he wasn't the #1 choice (after the interview at least) or he'd be the coach now. (As an aside: Who knows what he might have done. It is interesting to note that Mason had slightly more success at both Minnesota and Kansas than Miles had at Oklahoma State, and historically those are slightly less-winning programs than the other OSU.)
I saw an article about Tressel in one of the preseason football magazines in the late '90s, and the article was quite positive and indicated he was a good candidate for the OSU coach. But to a lot of the OSU fanbase, I think he seemed to come out of nowhere.
I disagree 97. Miles is unquestionably a desirable head coach. Even if he gets fired by LSU for being a Michigan Man and it didn't work out, there are any number of schools (or the NFL) that would take him on in nothing flat.
His big risk would have been losing LSU. Not his career.
Original C:
For the past 2 years, Grobe has been out-recruiting Miami, Florida St., and the Virginia schools. When he showed up, Wake was getting basically all one to two star players. He now gets 3 to 4 star kids. AND he is fighting (and winning) battles vs. the rest of the ACC to get them. That's a huge paradigm shift for Wake Forest.
Precisely McFate, not based on fan paranoia, but based on what would happen after the hire. If its someone that was "Seeked out by Michigan" most like staus Quo would prevail!!
Michigan Fan,
Nice assertion that Les Miles is the gatekeeper that would open the door to paying players. I mean, even the "Les Miles is slimy" crowd doesn't make that allegation, just the one about how he may have negatively recruited players by disclosing Lloyd's health to people.
Also, could we please stop blaming the failure of the basketball program on Ed Martin? It was 15 years ago. We've been off of probation for five. We suck because they hired the wrong guy to rebuild the program. So perhaps that might be why so many of us are pissed off about this whole circus.
Enron...
Carr's on the field coaching has nothing to do with who he thinks should be the next head coach. He sees someone that can leave a legacy the way that Bo left one for him.
The only reason Carr is staying involved personally is to make sure he adds more knowledge of Bo, and what it meant to coach under him than anyone else...even more than Miles.
@Ke7in and Enron Bowl
I agree with Enron Bowl and would add that Lloyd Carr has his own vision, agenda, whatever, and that may conflict with the best interests of the football program.
Carr, being very loyal, is looking out for the interest of his present staff. He may not see that as a conflict of interests, but I would see it otherwise. That is why his position on the search committee is potentially damaging.
"Never at OSU or at LSU has Miles has a 4-year running graduation % over 60%. Not once. Michigan has never been below 70%. I'm not even suggesting Miles is a cheat, what I'm saying is that:
LSU give scholarships to academic non-qualifiers while Michigan does not."
Good point - I think to answer this one would have to compare his teams to other teams in the conference in more detail. LSU vs SEC, as the schollies to non-qualifiers is common practice in the SEC (when in rome). Also teams like OSU are lower tier and would have to take higher risk prospects in order to compete with the OUs etc.
Again, good point worth a further look. Of course there are the "Les' recuits vs those already in the progam" and "Les' candidates later under another HC" things which would make it complicated to evaluate to say the least.
Chitown, can you link me something on this. cause i am on rivals page right now, and have not seen WF in the top 25, 05/06/07, where are you getting your info??
AAB,
Thank you for at least suggesting alternatives.
Getting Tedford would be a total coup, especially after the Miles incident. However, I just don't see it being a high probability hire from the start. Tedford is a Californian, and the UCLA job is open.
Realistically, I would applaud Martin if he can get Jim Grobe at this point, with English named the designated successor (similar to Dallas Cowboys' arrangement with Wade Phillips and Jason Garrett).
Let me try to be positive here for a second:
If there is one good thing to come of this, its that Martin is quite obviously feeling the heat. Unlike Lloyd, who obviously doesn't care about his legacy anymore, Martin knows the blame is clearly being placed on his shoulders.
One would hope that this leads to an "all bets are off - screw off Lloyd and your Michigen Man bullshit, lets do what we need to do to get a killer hire".
OSU and USC coaching searches were years ago when the internet and blogging hadn't reached current levels. I actually don't think blog was even a term back then. So much more info is leaked these days and people go running with it, so on and so forth. It's just a sign of the times, info now, true or false, we need something to discuss.
@AAB (from earlier, sorry):
Yes, that's correct, it's the same Bill Martin. However, Michigan's prestige was tanked on Saturday. I was downright depressed about how our school's athletic department managed to mess up the Miles situation and then the basketball team had to go lose to an Amaker-coached Harvard. I'm not saying that Martin makes me queasy because we didn't get Miles. It's the WAY in which we didn't get him that kills me. Whether he likes it or not, Martin is the patriarch of the athletic program right now. It wasn't like that during the basketball search because, let's face it, Michigan is a football school. Although Bo would have been looked to for answers and reassurance two years ago, he's not here anymore. Sure, Martin has earned the right to take time off, but now? It's like a CPA deciding to take the month of April off - don't take the job if you're not willing to do what it takes to excel.
So let me be clear - the University of Michigan is bigger than Bill Martin, Les Miles, Lloyd Carr, Bo Schembechler, and Kirk Ferentz. The people will come and they will go. All the people who associate themselves with the University ask is that the powers that be do their damnedest to preserve and advance the University's tradition. We looked like schmucks on Saturday. There was no "we don't think it's right to wax political before bowl season" defense, nor any "we want someone with more integrity" defense. Bill Martin dropped the ball. If you care as much as he should about what he's supposed to be protecting, you don't let situations like Saturday occur. Period.
I think it would be really hard to claim that Lloyd doesn't have the best interest of the school, not his staff, in mind. You may disagree with what he thinks is best, but I genuinely think he's doing what he believes is best. Similarly, I believe that Martin had a specific reason for not going all out for Miles. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying he had one.
are you really worried about um's graduation rate, or do you want to win games? please be honest.
Bottom line 97 -
Miles had to weigh what it was that he wanted most - the LSU gig or a chance at the Michigan gig.
I don't blame him for sticking with LSU at all - but please don't prop up the Michigan job was his dream thing.
Original C:
I just went to Rivals and looked at his last 5 recruiting classes. I have no idea what they were ranked, but you can see a progression in the quality of player that is showing up at the school.
"His big risk would have been losing LSU. Not his career."
I don't find throwing one's life and livelihood into turmoil for what amounts to a mail in application justifiable or logical.
I can respectfully agree to disagree.
Fair enough.
AAB...i can understand top 3, but English above Miles.....we have very different opinions on coaches..and with this much of a difference...there is no point in arguing!!!
Golden Grizzley:
How could Carr have known the situation that would be happinging now? LSU was ranked #2 in the country at the start of the season, so the conventional wisdom was that they would be playing in the SECCG and NC. And after the App St game it was apparent to everyone that this was Lloyd's last stand.
All of this makes the search look worse and worse. As does the fact that Brian Kelly does not seem to be a serious candidate for the job. I don't have a lot of confidence in the AD office on this one. I will gladly be wrong, but unfortunately, I don't think I am.
Bo's Ghost: Yes, I am worried about the graduation rate at the school. It's a point of pride for me, as a graduate, that most of our players go to school. It's a point of pride that I can look at MSU's 43% graduation rate and OSU's 56% rate and know that we at least still do what we're supposed to.
I'd go as far as to say that if you DON'T care about such a thing, you may as well just start cheering for pro ball, because your rooting interest has nothing to do with a University, it has to do with using the college players as mercenaries.
"Peer Institutions"...LOL! WHATEVER, Bill.
if we are so worried about academics, i say we go after harbaugh. then after that, we cut out sociology and kiniesiology to all football players. (like football players coming to top 10 programs {are we still one??} are coming to get a degree anyway).......wink wink....
Here's the thing...Michigan fans want the LEADERS and the BEST. Not Michigan men, not loyalty to current staff, or even to Bo.
Why do you think everyone loves Bo today? He was a winner. He brought his OWN style, his OWN system, and he got results. He isn't revered today because he tried to emulate Yost. This worship of "Michigan men" has to stop. Fans respect winners who put everything on the line, period.
Enron - Bo created the "Michigan Man" idea you're railing against.
MillerTime - excellent comments. A statement from Martin on Saturday evening may well have headed some of this off - or better yet on Saturday afternoon there could have been a joint statement made by Martin and Bertman stating there had been no contact between Michigan and Miles/his agent and that the ESPN report was incorrect.
Martin could have included a statement that his intention to wait until after the game, and Bertman could have thanked him for his respect of the situation.
I'd probably be a whole different ballgame about now in the PR department.
Bo's Ghost...
The academics is a huge deal to alumni, dude. Don't think that they aren't working on that as their number one issue. Michigan people care more about the perception of their school than they do their football team.
lol........graduation rates are all bullshit anyway. hell, ohio state had 4 or 5 guys leave early last year for the nfl draft didn't they? ginn, gonzalez, pittman.......do they count against the rate?
1) hardly any football players get a real education. If they wanted one, they wouldn't be playing football.
2) the graduation rate is a noble thing, but not an excuse for losing or hiring bad coaches.
Question with Grobe is, will he make the unnecessary changes?? Will be have the balls to do it? If so i am in!!!
Les would cause he is a fire breathing Troll!!!
And if anyone here thinks we do not need changes with the staff.....its not worth arguing then!!
Maize & Blue in OH - did you not watch football this season?
Come on- there was NO conventional wisdom this year!
@ Enron
Bo never won a N.C. and went 5-12 in bowl games. In many ways, he was less of a winner than Lloyd Carr. Were he coaching today, I fully expect Bo would get a ton of criticism.
you people are kidding yourselves. there are 10 million posts here about searching for a new football coach, and you are trying to tell me people care more about the academic perception of the instiution? this
is laughable. a total farce.
Additionally, although Bo brought his own style, gameplan, and fire to Michigan, he respected the hell out of the tradition that was already there. There's the legendary story about how the facilities sucked when he got there but he told his staff that Miami's weren't better because these had "Michigan Tradition."
The reason the Michigan Man aspect is so important is because in the age of the ego-centric coach who thinks he is the greatest thing since the invention of football or coaching, Michigan Men have been taught to respect tradition - especially Michigan tradition. So it's not that we NEED a Michigan Man, it's that we need someone with the ideology of a Michigan Man.
"Bo created the "Michigan Man" idea you're railing against."
I'm pretty sure he didn't intend for it to turn into a crony system that accepts mediocrity. My point is that his legacy was his own. He was a trailblazer. That's what we need (at least in some degree) in a new coach.
Bo's Ghost....lower than 70% would not cut it at Michigan...if we get a guy who is going to bring in that culture..he should be fired. And no i don;t think Miles would do that!!
enron bowl, you are wise beyond your years.
It's really hard to get fired up over what people think of Michigan's undergrad Philosophy classes. Last I checked, there weren't 110,812 people watching those.
This is much more fun - and easy - cause it's on TV and written about everywhere.
IF YOU TAKE A STEP BACK...
It is fairly obvious that BM simply did not want (at least exclusively) LM. END OF STORY. The only thing to talk about is your opinion of that...
I for one agree with him.
The last thing I want to become is OSU. They spend a fuckin' fortune on athletics (money that could mostly be better used on, say research or charity). Their academics, outside of football, are nothing to write home about. They aren't known for anything other than sports to be honest. Michigan on the other hand is a fine academic institution. They don't want to pony up millions b/c it leads to the perception that we're trying to keep up with the Jones' instead of making our own trail, as we've done in numerous non-athletic endeavors over the years.
Bo's Ghost...
Not every Michigan fan is freaking out about not getting one coach (Miles). I'm sure many are viewing the coaching search very differently, like Bill Martin.
I'd go as far as to say that if you DON'T care about such a thing, you may as well just start cheering for pro ball, because your rooting interest has nothing to do with a University, it has to do with using the college players as mercenaries.
Wow.
"We are missing one aspect of being a coach that Michigan prizes at which Miles fails: academic performance."
Chitownblue 00,
Thank you for bringing up the first legitimate concern regarding Les Miles' candidacy. While I believe that he will adjust if he is given the opportunity, it is a legit red flag.
Jim Grobe is a good coach. Anyone who can win at Wake Forest and Ohio U has my eternal respect. In addition, he appears to have won the right way, through player development, a sound, yet adjustable scheme, and solid game day coaching.
However, I just wonder, realistically, if he wants to leave Wake Forest. He is 55, has never worked in the Big 10, and does he want that kind of pressure? In addition, he has used a triple-option type offense in the past, which we don't have the personnel for. Plus, he works a group of long-time assistants who has followed him from Ohio U to Wake Forest, is he willing to take on Lloyd's leftovers?
I still like Brian Kelly as my #2, but I am warming up to Grobe.
so, if les miles would have come in and graduated 60 percent, and won the national title, he should be fired on the spot? you are a god damn fool. one reason michigan's rate is so damn high anyway is b/c LC never developed any talent and all the players had to stay for 4 years, either that, or they got sheltered in some sham academic program. you think what you like, but most of these guys aren't taking the standard courses most students do.
Speaking of academic reputation - where is UM currently on the USNEWS list? (I think the list is bogus btw)
Come to think of it, I am pretty sure we lost ground there in the last 10 years have we not? (I really don't know, but I think last I heard, we were lower than I remember us being)
Many of you are exactly what's wrong with Michigan fans. Instead of taking to the streets, you are beginning to show your sheeple side and explain away incompetence and mediocrity.
That's why Michigan is Ohio States, USC's, and many other top tier programs bitch. You UM fans sit up on a high horse, out of touch with the 21st century.
By the way, Michigan, LLoyd Carr has made you Division 1AA's bitch too. You'll NEVER live that one down.
Have fun thinking you have some sort of pronciples, and explaining away the next decade of failure.
Hey, at least you still own Sparty. The rest of the country is definitely impressed with that.LOL
"Bo never won a N.C. and went 5-12 in bowl games. In many ways, he was less of a winner than Lloyd Carr. "
He also finished first in the big ten 13 out of 20 years (65%) where as Lloyd won 5/12 (38%)
Bo might have been criticized in todays world, but many things have changed (BCS, media etc)
....does anyone know where Brian hid the "rock-paper-scissors" item that he wrote back in Sept or Oct?
Thanks in advance.
Enron - I think the "Michigan Man" thing is horseshit, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying, using Bo as the prototype to dispell the idea of "a Michigan Man" is wrong.
Bo's Ghost - you clearly didn't go to Michigan, did you? For your questions - you think that OSU having 6 players leave early in the past 4 years to Michigan's 3 is responsible for a 20% difference?
Finally, the statement that "if they wanted an education, they wouldn't play football" reeks of ignorance. You haven't known a Michigan football player personally, have you? Or been a scholarship athelete in anything?
FUCK YEAH BO's GHOST, WE NEED NO FUCKING PUNK COACHING OUR TEAM!!
Yeah...what the hell are we doing in here. Let's not come back to MGoBlog until ESPN officially reports Michigan has hired it's next head coach. It'd be so much easier than going around in circles all day.
OK...how about the stadium!!
Since they are ripping stuff down…did anyone hire a sound engineer or get someone from the engineering school to figure out how to alter the stadium to make it louder. It is kind of embarrassing that the big house is the quiet house.…or was making luxury boxes in a time of a recession more important?
Remember...at No.9 hamburgers, we believe a balanced diet starts with a burger for each hand...
Dombrowski for AD!
I've got a song, I ain't got no melody
I'ma gonna sing it to my friends
I've got a song, I ain't got no melody
I' ma gonna sing it to my friends
Will it go round in circles
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky
Will it go round in circles
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky
I've got a story, ain't got no moral
Let the bad guy win every once in a while
I've got a story, ain't got no moral
Let the bad guy win every once in a while
Will it go round in circles
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky
Will it go round in circles
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky
I've got a dance, I ain't got no steps, no
I'm gonna let the music move me around
I've got a dance, I ain't got no steps
I'm gonna let the music move me around
Will it go round in circles
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky
Will it go round in circles
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky
[Instrumental Interlude]
Will it go round in circles
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky
Will it go round in circles
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky
I've got a song, I ain't got no melody
I'ma gonna sing it to my friends
I've got a song, I ain't got no melody
I' ma gonna sing it to my friends
Will it go round in circles
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky
Will it go round in circles
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky
@ Bo's Ghost -
Speaking for myself here, I think grad rates are important to the point that I don't think I could stomach an NC if we had a 20% grad rate. The grad rate is an important indicator of whether we are a diploma factory or an actual university. The perception matters, to me at least.
As for perception, what truly upsets me about this coaching search is not that Miles will (apparently) not be the next HC, it is the fact that it looks like the people running the coaching search are motivated by petty animus against a top candidate, or just flat-out don't know what the fuck they are doing. Maybe a bit of both.
Ben - Grobe's age is the biggest strike against him, no doubt. We'd have him for 7 or 8 years, max. Plus, he hasn't expressed interest in Michigan. That said, when his name got mentioned for Nebraska this year and Miami last year, he went out of his way to say "No". He has not done so with us.
chitown, is the graduation rate measured over a 4 year span, or just one? if it was measured only off last year, then it would be skewed b/c osu lost at least 4 players i can think of to the nfl draft - ginn, gonzalez, pittman, and whitner.
It's unfortunate how this whole thing has played out, but I still have faith in BM. He brought us Beilin (not sure I spelled that right) and that hire will pay off in the next couple of years once he gets his recruits into the system.
Go Blue!
Well, the statement that "they're all in some sham program" solidifies that you probably didn't go to school at Michigan, nor did you know any of the players. Sure, some are Kinisiologiy majors, but at least that's getting the ones that don't go pro ready to do SOMETHING with their lives. By the way - I knew plenty of non-atheletes who took bullshit majors too.
So the one year difference between Miles and Grobe is a deal stopper?
Bo's Ghost: There's a reason why my first post said "4-year rolling graduation rate".
Golden Grizzly - shouldn't be, no. But there are people, and I don't blame them, who want a young dude who can be at M for ever.
"He became frustrated when asked where he was this weekend, insisting that it didn't matter, that he could conduct the coach search from anywhere. He explained that at least part of the problem was he had switched from a Treo phone to a Blackberry and was having some technical problems."
Wow i'm surprised he didn't pull out the dog ate my phone excuse too!
Plus, for an "up and comer", Grobe is sort of old.
"Finally, the statement that "if they wanted an education, they wouldn't play football" reeks of ignorance."
Actually, I have known football players that got "real" degrees. They were all 3rd/4th stringers. Sorry, but the players that start and win the games focus on football, not education in nearly every case. Hell, just watch what the majors are for every starter they introduce. I rarely see something other than communications, kinesiology, leisure studies, etc. Sorry, but you're way off on this one.
Also, you can't equate all student athletes with football players.
How come I've never heard age referred to about Miles (11/10/53) but it's one of the first things that come up with Grobe (2/17/52).
Makes the argument against Grobe very weak- shouldn't be part of the conversation.
And yes, I know there are a good many fans that would like to see someone that is 45 instead.
@Michigan fan:
The grad rate is an important indicator of whether we are a diploma factory or an actual university.
Is it?
The overall student body graduation rate at my alma mater, when I went there, was south of 70%. Caltech sits somewhere in the top five in the USNWR ratings every single year.
I don't see a correlation between "high graduation rate" numbers and "good academic schools." Yes, the graduation rate numbers are often mentioned in the media, but I'm surprised that so few people think about questioning what they mean. (Good schools are DIFFICULT, not easy, to graduate from.)
In fact, when schools admit football players far dumber than the student body average, and yet those players graduate in numbers higher than the student body average (say, Penn State), it smells fishy to me. But most folks just seem to swallow the 90%-ish numbers without question.
@Michigan Student-
You stated earlier that BMs salary is $0. Don't know if you've been corrected yet, but that's public info:
http://errwpc.umdl.umich.edu/pub.../1/
3314612.html
His salary is listed at over $350K
I wonder what the graduation rate was for the basketball program was when I was passing out all the cakes stuffed with money??
Early today a media friend from Florida shed some light on what happened this weekend that is quite disturbing. According to him, the "source"who leaked the story to Herbstreit was none other than LC himself, further that this leak had been floated for the better part of 4 days and no national media was biting, including SEC's tv partner, which whom he has contact.
Even further, my media friend was on the field prior to the SEC game as part of his job and saw Les speaking with a very prominent announcer who consoled Les by saying "I'm sorry Lloyd f**ked you", to which Les responded - "Yes, he sure did."
I was told much more this morning, enough that forced me to leave the office and hit the gym to work off the anger. So much more that I may share later but for now it would be fruitless.
Suffice to say I learned two important things today - one, this college football world is a very small, incestuous pool (so small that when Sweater Vest chided Kirk on his "sources" during the Sunday telecast he knew EXACTLY who that source was) and two, the coaches of the Michigan football program are NOT held in high regard as to their abilities by the rest of the collegiate coaching community.
Bottom line is this - Martin's boat trip, MSC's predelications and everything else are all ir-f-ing-relvant. LC has a fifteen year agenda against LM, simple as that.
Why, oh WHY are you all fixated on hiring a "Michigan Man" for the job? Whoever Martin hires will love this place and uphold its traditions (because of the man Martin is and the place Michigan is - read some quotes from him and from other ADs, it's apparent), and the winning hasn't exactly followed our "alums" here...
Winning percentage in parens:
Yost (.833) - NO "M" degree or experience.
Crisler (.805) - NO "M" degree or experience.
Schembechler (.796) - NO "M" degree or experience.
Carr (.758) NO "M" degree, yes "M" experience.
Moeller (.758) NO "M" degree, yes "M" experience.
Oosterbaan (.650) YES "M" degree and experience.
Kipke (.631) YES "M" degree, no "M" experience.
Elliot (.547) YES "M" degree and experience.
\if you search, you essentially tell the world that Carr is gone. Martin allowed Carr to make that call himself.//
Proving Martin's allegance to Carr supercedes that to his University.
Not a good example, I'm afraid.
"As for perception, what truly upsets me about this coaching search is not that Miles will (apparently) not be the next HC, it is the fact that it looks like the people running the coaching search are motivated by petty animus against a top candidate, or just flat-out don't know what the fuck they are doing. Maybe a bit of both."
Bingo. I don't mind losing out on Les so much as I'm annoyed that Brian Kelly doesn't appear to be a candidate. What? You don't like the guy? Who cares, he wins. I would just like to know a specific logical reason why Kelly isn't our clear cut #2 right now. I'm warming to Jim Grobe. Not really a sexy name, but I've been impressed with what he's done at Wake. Beyond those two the bottom seems to fall out and there's just nothing to be excited about. And I really want to be excited about this.
Gulfcoast--
Wow.
Oh my.
And that would change everything.
Worth repeating.
"I don't see a correlation between "high graduation rate" numbers and "good academic schools." Yes, the graduation rate numbers are often mentioned in the media, but I'm surprised that so few people think about questioning what they mean. (Good schools are DIFFICULT, not easy, to graduate from.)
In fact, when schools admit football players far dumber than the student body average, and yet those players graduate in numbers higher than the student body average (say, Penn State), it smells fishy to me. But most folks just seem to swallow the 90%-ish numbers without question."
I actually count three players who started for U of M among my friends. One has an economics degree, one Org. Studies, and the other English.
I was a history major, and I can think of four high-profile starters that were in my major, in my year. Steve Hutchinson was my fucking TA for fresman history.
McFate: I think when you compare the grad rates for Cal Tech to the Grad rates for Division I football players, it's apples and oranges. It's true that lots of Michigan's players take Kinisiology, or Communications, or something of the sort. That is obviously less strenuous. But, by graduating with those degrees, they can actually go do something. The Ann Arbor are is littered with former Michigan football players who graduated from the school with Kinis. majors who are coaching football teams, are athletic trainers, or even coaching gym. It beats pumping gas, and it does more for them then the kids that leave without a degree and without a pro contract who have to go pump gas.
Michigan Men? Please. If I recall correctly, the first time I heard "Michigan Man" was when Bo used it to describe Steve Fisher.
The worst coach in the history of michigan athletics.
Who, ironically, was hired by Bo. If I never hear "Michigan Man" again in my lifetime, I'm good with that.
I'm not sure what is to tough about this search. Get a list of the top mid level BCS coaches, a list of the top cordinators, inverview them and get the damn job done. Les was the only top coach Michigan could get because of the special situation. Top coaches don't leave top programs. They make too much, too many clauses in the contracts, they have contacts at the school established. Very hard.
So, If a crappy DC with no HC experience and no hope of ever landing a high profile job can win the NC here, Michigan will do alright.....I think, pretty sure. Should be I guess. as long a BM don't have a polo match scheduled in new zealand when we have the next candidate on the phone
@ bo's ghost
I think the grad rates are computed over a 6 year period.
@ Gulfcoast
Hey dude. I appreciate you trying to arm us with information. However, I'm quite certain that this has to be 100% false. If Lloyd is smart--and shrewd--enough to sense that such a ploy would derail a deal with Miles, he would also be smart enough to operate through third parties so that his fingerprints would be left on the leak. Also, if the allegations as to amount of influence are accurate, Lloyd could achieve the same outcome by exercising his veto, and we could construct a justification for how we "tried" to get Miles but it didn't work out ex post. No way its true.
One of the only things that got me through the week following the Horror was the fact that it was so obvious we would get a new coach next year.
I naively imagined that BM would spend the season sending out feelers and making contact with potential hires via headhunters and agents.
Damn am I a sap.
side note: Pumping gas? I think it is easier to get a job at goldman sachs then to pump gas. Job doesn't exist anymore.
History degree? Might as well be in Poli. Sci.
FYI: Gas pumping jobs aplenty out here in Oregon. State law says no self serve.
"It's true that lots of Michigan's players take Kinisiology, or Communications, or something of the sort. That is obviously less strenuous. But, by graduating with those degrees, they can actually go do something."
right, and I think graduating football players is in general, a good idea. They could have gotten the same or better degree from a community college etc, but they didn't. Why? Because their priority was playing football. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's a fact.
The bottom line here is that graduation rates are good in general, but they are not the end all when you are running a football program.
Pumping gas is still a job, ever been to Jersey?
By the way, the "APR" or academic progress rate, that I cited (that both OSU and LSU fall below the benchmark on) takes into account more than graduation rate. It takes "points" off for players enrolled in "General Studies" and similar majors, the number of non-academic qualifiers on shcolarship, etc. That's why Michigan's 73% rate gets it a significantly lower score than, for instance So. Mississippi (I know, I was surprised too).
I have a friend at ABC News, which is owned by the same parent company that owns ESPN. I asked her to do some digging Saturday when all this hit the fan. She got back to me Saturday PM. Said Herbstreit's source was "at the highest levels of the Michigan football program." She couldn't get anything else.
For what it's worth, I have a hard time believing it was Carr himself. That would be huge story now, given the way this has all played out. But do I "think" he was somehow a part of it? Yep.
\if you search, you essentially tell the world that Carr is gone. Martin allowed Carr to make that call himself.//
Proving Martin's allegance to Carr supercedes that to his University.
Not a good example, I'm afraid.
Yeah, an AD that respects his coaches is certainly someone I wouldn't want to work for.
Get real.
Who would want to come to Michigan if Martin threw Carr under the bus?
Enron - I don't think they're the be all/end all. I just think academics do matter when looking at our next coach.
"Get a list of the top mid level BCS coaches, a list of the top cordinators, inverview them and get the damn job done."
agreed
LOL...pumping gas. did he come out with a rack of quarters and dimes on his belt and a window washer?
"Who would want to come to Michigan if Martin threw Carr under the bus?"
He doesn't have to throw him under the bus, but he should ACT like an AD. BM makes the decisions not Lloyd Carr.
@ Chitownblue:
It's true that lots of Michigan's players take Kinisiology, or Communications, or something of the sort. That is obviously less strenuous. But, by graduating with those degrees, they can actually go do something.
True, there is that component to graduation rates, by which higher rates are meaningful and useful.
A school which doesn't have easier degree tracks will have a lower graduation rate. A school which doesn't care about its athletes' education will also have a lower graduation rate. One of those things (high standards) is good, one (not caring) is bad.
All sorts of factors like that get smashed into one number. Some of those factors are (in my opinion anyway) good if they result in lower numbers, and others are good if they result in higher numbers.
That's why I say there isn't much correlation.
To return to the PSU example, I wouldn't say that Michigan is "a diploma mill" (to use someone else's terminology) relative to Penn State. And yet, PSU's football player graduation rates are about as far above Michigan's, as Michigan's are above Ohio State's.
Should Michigan aspire to 90%-plus percent graduation rates? I would say not if they have to cheapen the degree programs that would be needed to do so.
In this exciting/frightening time where our AD looks for a new coach, I thought I would list what it is Lloyd and BM might be looking for in the next candidate. Yesterday, I listed the following in classic Lloyd play calling.
1) Play action roll out right 6 yard pass to the tight end
2) Wide reciever screen, 2 yard pass to the outside reciever
3) The obligatory "trick play" running back to wide reciever reverse. (Is it really a trick play if it is run every week, for 10 years straight?...and stopped working in 1999)
4) The long shot downfield to your uber-talented reciever (Braylon, Mario)---Usually only run on 3rd and long when team is down by 2 TDs or more.
Now in terms of character, the coach must be
1) Bland as cottage cheese
2) Be a good guy in the community
3) Embrace the mediocre midwest mentality where you sacrifice excellence for cronyism and tradition (Don't rock the boat)
On field Expectations (Enough to keep apologists happy)
1)Average a record of 8.5-3.5
2)Win a share of Big Ten Title every 3rd year
3) Quote Bo...And continue running his offense.
4) Delude fans into thinking program is "elite" by going to the Rose Bowl every few years, where you can subsequently get your doors blown off by USC.
Help me guys. Did I leave something out?
get the torches.
You honestly think that letting word get out that you're searching for a new coach after the losses to Appy St and Oregon wouldn't be throwing Lloyd under the bus?!?
No matter how you spun it, it would come out that Martin fired Carr.
Those who stay will be champions.
Those who go sailing will not.
\Who would want to come to Michigan if Martin threw Carr under the bus?//
Come on. A responsible AD would've fired Carr after the App State game. There isn't anyone who would hold that against him. The only people pleased to see Carr continue coaching after that were the Ohio State fans...they knoew they were guaranteed at least one more win in Ann Arbor.
i'm going to go take a dump in my backyard. be back later.
Thank you for making my point Johnny.
Gulfcoast:
So maybe this is why the coaching search is dragging on: Part of the interview process involves playing "hide the salami" with LC.
I'm getting a little tired of all of this. I'm looking forward to getting some kind of solid information on our coaching search.
p.s. mike tomlin is an asshole. "this ain't michigan v. appy state"
Seriously,
I wish LC could just go the fuck away.
Winged,
I was quite skeptical, as well, which brings me back to the "incestuous small pool" part. Apparently, coaches as "sources" happens frequently, so much so that (again according to my source)ESPN chose to run the story without the typical two-party corroboration. Also, CBS got the same intel on Wednesday and chose not to use it, because they new there was an agenda behind it, whether it came directly from Lloyd or one of his "agents."
More importantly, my source has absolutely no reason to make any of this shit up. He has no ties to or allegances to the program. He just happens to be someone who gets incredible access doing work for the SEC's tv partner and travels with some big-time media.
He also told me that Mitch and other writers were fed the "Miles is greedy" info to serve as cover. When I asked why in hell no local media would blow this up, he simply said "no way in hell do you F with Michigan if you want to work in the state.
I'm telling you, it sounds crazy, but with some of the other things I was told, it just makes sense. The parellel that he drew for me was similar to national politics and the mainstrem political media - one small group of people controlling the dialogue, fulfilling the agendas, and performing this grand play for all the public to see.
Seriously, fucking despicable.
But did Bloyd Carrtin anticipate the diarrhea hurricane that snubbing the Wolverine Coaching Superstar would cause????
And will anyone in their right mind want to step into this postion, realizing they have a hostile "show me NOW" fanbase all worked up???
This is so fucking bad.
By this logic, the spazzery of most commenters here is directly to blame for Michigan's coming slide into mediocrity, right?
I don't think Lloyd should have been fired after Appy St. However, BM had a full year to get a short list of coaches together.
No excuse for the Miles debacle, even if BM wasn't interested in Les' coaching services.
Anybody that thinks anyone in a position of power is taking us seriously is delusional.
We can be as stirred up as we like and it has zero impact on the big picture.
Honestly, if this hire was going to be a complete fuck up it would be done by now. I think the longer it goes, the more likely that we either (a) get Miles or (b) get a surprise candidate, and I mean that as a positive. Thank God they didn't make a fast hire before the opposition could establish itself.
It’s Fun to Speculate: Faction In-Fighting Edition
MSC Faction.
1st choice: Ferentz (a strong, quiet intelligent, MAN – Be Still, My Beating Heart!)
2nd choice: anyone BM and LC can agree on
LC Faction.
1st choice: Debord
2nd choice: English
3rd choice: Hoke
4th – 10th choices: anyone who coached with or under LC (not named Miles)
11th choice: Miles (don’t like him but he is a Michigan Man)
Last choice: anyone w/o Michigan ties
BM Faction.
1st and 2nd choices: ??? (not Ferentz or anyone in LC’s top 10)
3rd choice: Miles
4th choice: see 1st and 2nd choices
Now does it start to make sense?
Want to have an impact?
wcmartin@umich.edu
marysuec@umich.edu
Golden Grizzly, thank you for the reality check. MGoBlog's comments section is rapidly eroding into the MLive board (OMG FIRE EVERYONE ON THE STAFF WE JUST LET PURDUE CLOSE TO WITHIN THREE TDS)
Grewup, under your scenarios the only person all 3 factions could agree on is Miles. Are you trying to say something?
No matter how you spun it, it would come out that Martin fired Carr.
Golden Grizzly | 12.05.07 - 8:13 pm | #
HE DAMN WELL SHOULD HAVE!
Blue Durham-
I know what you meant. I was merely adding that other schools no longer care about the We are Michigan thing. If anything that makes them laugh and take us less seriously all the more. Wasn't attacking you or anything. :)
Dombrowski for AD would be awesome except he makes 2M per year, and apparently Bill "the new Ed" Martin is determined to pay as little as possible for a new coach, even though there will be a ticket price increase guaranteed....for a total horsecrap home schedule, except for MSU
You've not made any point that I can deduce, GG. With any job there are acceptable levels of performance. Losing to a Division 1-AA team falls significantly below "meets expectations" level for a head coach at a program like Michigan's. In fact it reaches a level heretofore unknown, that of "systemic liability".
Keeping an element like that in your organization, I don't care what the nature of that industry is, can only be detrimental. Not only does the continued reliance on such a liability itself produce poor results, it also has the added effect of actually improving your competition by presenting an image that such poor performance is not only tolerated, but in fact what is strived toward.
And of course this makes your competition look much better. Eventually they become much better, because your competition attracts the personnel resources you can no longer expect to attract because...well, you are a program that promotes the feeling that it is acceptable to lose.
At home.
To Appalachian State.
And I think that Carr recognized what you are saying Johnny, then did the right thing for the program and himself by deciding to retire.
Why have a nasty firing of a guy with a great winning percentage and a NC when you don't need to?
The lynch mob mentality of firing someone because of one loss does more harm than good in the long run.
Why don't poeple understand, including whoever that clown is over on Michiganzone, that the process was designed by Michigan to fail?
...
That guy is an idiot.
Meeechigan Dan | Homepage | 12.05.07 - 6:48 pm | #
---------------------------------------
Because you have absolutely no evidence of that.
All of these conspiracy theories that Michigan purposefully sabotaged a Miles candidacy are pure lunacy. There are literally hundreds of people, including some close to the search, who want Miles as head coach.
It's great that you're calling our AD an idiot before he's even hired anyone.
Michiganzone is dead on. Two commenters over there said it best: "even though this blog is terrific, it's too bad it's (and the Rivals boards) are being overrun by 'fans' that think they know more about what's good for the program than those who actually live for the program.
Obviously we're all entitled to our opinions, but even the smartest among us are probably basing those opinions on imperfect information. A little humility, and a willingness to think that just maybe the Athletic Department has access to some information that you and I, as average fans, simply do not, will go a long way to maintaining sanity."
Oh, and count me as one of the people who cares more about the University's academic reputation more than the athletic reputation. A LOT more. You don't see a million posts about that because there aren't many entertaining blogs breaking down academics, are there?
hide behind your graduation rates you cowards!!
I know One "Michigan Man" who got his degree froma REAL UNIVERSITY
BO got his masters from tOSU
now keep th enoise down, I am going to drop trou and show all those Ann Arbor heffers what a real man looks like
BM is such a class act that he disregards other classy actions... such as returning phone calls when people call!
The fact that he blamed the switch from a treo to a blackberry as part of the technical difficulties is just hilarious.
Dhani jones was in my physics lecture and lab. He always came late (it was 8 am, not my choice) and some poor girl always did all the work. But he seemed like a smart guy, just didn't care, kinda like a lot of us I think.
http://www.michigan.rivals.com/s...le=2&
Override=1
I always liked Dhani Jones...guys like that don't go to OSU.
Martin didn't fire Carr because the Appy State debacle was as much if not more his fault than Lloyd.
1)He convinced Carr to come back for another season even after Lloyd had told him he was leaning toward retirement. (He basically told Martin he was not as motivated and could no longer completely dedicate himself to the position.)
2)He scheduled Appy State.
Let me suggest, again, that this is a unique situation. We are at a fork in the road. The people responsible for the next coach want to go down the road that does not understand 21st century football. The want to go down the left road, let's say, and this is a road that most fans on this thread really don't want to travel. Debord lives off this road, as does Ferentz and Hoke and all other mundane coaches that satisfy a certain, non-football Michigan fiction of 19th century chivalry and academia and who win a safe number of games...or have solid excuses as to why not.
Down the road on the right are winners, people like Tressel and Meyer and Carroll and Stoops and Miles and Kelly. People with blemishes, coaches who have cursed at a press conference or recruited too aggressively.
The reason for the hysteria - and yes, it IS hysteria and I am a purveyor - is because only fear is going to stop them from traveling down the wrong road. We represent a form of pressure - albiet a painfully insignificant form - and now is the time to raise our voices, not after a safe retread is standing at the podium and all the valium-preachers suddenly realize that it's too late to get off the meds.
This "search" does not merit ANY patience on our part, only panic.
500 Michigan athletic alums have reached out to express their displeasure.
Blogs like this have become an addictive rant fest.
What exactly will it take for this regime to realize that change is inevitable and the 21st century is upon us?
Obviously, much more.
It's time to act no talk . . .kinda like the IBM commercial.
\2)He scheduled Appy State.//
I don't understand...wasn't Hawai'i trying to get a game with us that weekend?[/sarcasm]
Bravo, Meechigan Dan. Well said.
Scott, either Martin's "pursuit" of Miles was designed to fail or he is incompetent. It's one or the other. If you think he is/was pursuing Miles with good intentions, then nothing could be more clear than his mismanagement of the situation.
If he intended this farcical pursuit, then he is playing a dangerous game that, oh, lemme see, might end up making our university look like bumbling stooges.
So where is the room for allowing Martin to operate?
"oops let's punt."
ZING!
Patience will get us Debord as head coach. If that's what you want, then fine.
Additionally, Hawai'i is a Div 1A team known to have a talented QB and some pretty good receivers.
Losing to Hawai'i would've been an upset, but certainly not the one-in-a-million, greatest upset of all time type of event Appy State was.
We would've been far better off scheduling a home-and-home with Hawai'i than paying Appy State 300k to kick our tails all over the Big House.
Just sent this e-mail to Mary Sue:
"December 5, 2007
Dear President Coleman,
I will try to keep this brief, as there is likely very little chance of it being read by you anyway--which I must say is a sad notion, given all the support, enthusiasm and money I have contributed to OUR institution over the course of my adult life. I came to the U of M from Los Angeles, where I was born and raised, and graduated in 2006 with a bachelor's degree in History. Without hesitation, the best decision I have ever made in my life was deciding to attend Michigan. Like many out there, I am also a staunch supporter of our athletic department--from the wrestling team to the softball team and, of course, right on up to our tradition-filled football program. As such, I am crestfallen right now. The way the 'search' for a new head football coach has played out in the media is simply astonishing. And, to be sure, I am ashamed to be a Wolverine right now. Those are words I never thought I'd write. I happen to be a strong supporter of Coach Les Miles' candidacy for the position, but my purpose is not to blast you or your intentions, which I am sure many have already (and perhaps unfairly) done.
In short, I am so emotionally invested in the University and its athletic program that my conscience would not allow me to go another day without at least making my feelings heard by my alma mater's presiding President. Michigan's success on "the playing field" is part of a symbiotic relationship with its fans, and many (including myself) feel undermined or betrayed by the way our search for a new head football coach has played out in the public eye. I am extremely tempted to continue on, but I have already rambled longer than intended and do not wish to re-hash what so many others have likely submitted hitherto this point. Yes, I do think Les Miles should be our next coach--and yes, I do think he is by far the most qualified person on the planet for this specific job. However, I simply ask that you please make a more concerted effort to weigh the feelings of your fan base during this very crucial time for our University. Based on what I have seen transpire thus far, it is clear that the majority 'voice' is being silenced without so much as a legitimate response or explanation from the administrative side of things.
Naturally, I would welcome the opportunity to discuss the matter with you (or a representative) further, though I fully understand the time constraints that accompany your position. I can be reached at this e-mail address (my place of business) or by telephone any time of day, at [phone # withheld].
I'm sure messages like this have been flooding your lines of communication for days and weeks, so thank you for taking the time to read my remarks and for granting a faithful alum a few moments of your no-doubt precious time.
Respectfully yours,
[name withheld]
Class of 2006"
\(and perhaps unfairly)//
Nice. Well-played.
Chillmodius,
Well done.
More of that is need by all.
yeah, I tried to be as diplomatic as possible.
"Scott, either Martin's "pursuit" of Miles was designed to fail or he is incompetent. It's one or the other. If you think he is/was pursuing Miles with good intentions, then nothing could be more clear than his mismanagement of the situation.
If he intended this farcical pursuit, then he is playing a dangerous game that, oh, lemme see, might end up making our university look like bumbling stooges.
So where is the room for allowing Martin to operate?"
@Meeechigan Dan,
I honestly suspect that Martin is being set up by people with personal agendas. Martin has always shown to be a competent administrator and someone who loves Michigan. I think he wanted Miles, with Ferentz and Kelly as the backup. However, he is being sabotaged by people with competing agendas, and is now taking the fall for something that really isn't his wrongdoing.
Whoever masterminded this is ruining a good man...
With that said, Martin can totally redeem himself if he can lure a Tedford or a Grobe to Ann Arbor and remove all traces of cronyism. He has alumni backing now, and all the non-Michigan grads at the university who somehow thinks they know what's best for us just because we gave them a paycheck will be silenced.
We need to put Butch Davis on our short list...
Hello friends,
Well another evening comes, put the kids to bed and check out the current furore on Brian's boards. Congratulations Brian, a bit sensational your coverage my friend but you're lighting it up with the head count. Good for you.
Thinking of the topic at hand, Mr. Bill Martin, the coaching search etc. I might offer a few points for consideration:
I have read a lot of coverage in recent days about the Tressel hire at tOSU as being part of some sort of master PLAN that the tOSU administration had in place way back when to "get their guy". I reside in a part of the Great White North where the best radio sports come out of Cleveland (or Buffalo, but it's untenable to listen to any radio from Buffalo). Anyway, the whole tOSU coaching search went on...and on...and on. The tOSU fans are like UM fans on a crack binge by comparison...foiled by Belotti, Glen freaking Mason getting a ton of run and a small but loud contingent pushing JT. It worked out for them in the end but they offered 3 guys before JT so people, maybe ease up a little on your woe is me we'll never get a good coach rants.
I have been enjoying the coverage from some of you characterizing Bill Martin as a total idiot. Now DeBord...okay, I agree with you...but I suspect that Bill Martin is slightly more with it and guarded than people are crediting. Further, it is true they are looking at the better part of 300 million in improvements and costing over the next few years and do obviously have a need to maintain asses in seats which would be a lot easier with a lot of wins. Obviously, Martin has to be aware of this; I understand that it makes us all feel better to rant and go off on Bill Martin and the admin. as a bunch of idiots but I don't much want to see UM with the equivalent of Glen freaking Mason circa OSU almost a decade ago and friends that is precisely what DeBord, Schiano, Ferentz etc. all would be...I am unsure if Les Miles fits that piece (is he winning with Saban's recruits? is it Pellini's defence? is the guy actually a great coach? or is the OSU overall record more indicative?...points to ponder).
I figure I'll give these guys a shot to get it right then I have some options as a donor. As would many of the rest of you.
Best wishes all.
Chill, outstanding.
Chillmodious:
Incredible letter. Thanks for sharing it with us.
I was born and raised in Michigan, and I've been watching Michigan football since I was about 3 or 4 years old.
All I ever wanted to do from that point on was attend and graduate from U of M.
I managed to achieve this.
The way this entire "search" process has been handled makes it feel as though my heart is slowly being dug from my chest with a rusty spoon.
This unimaginable buffoonery from my alma mater kills a little more of my soul every day.
I really, truly hope that Martin has some super-secret search plan he is executing to bring a quality coach to Michigan's sideline next season.
Unfortunately, I am not reassured by the information that has surfaced about this so-called "search" process.
Martin is taking the heat for Lloyd, no more no less. (pardon the pun) He has operated under the proper guidlines, at least as far as the Miles situation is concerned, but was undermined by a personal agenda, the cause of which we may never know.
I can see Stoops sending Martin e-mails on his Treo: "Bill, I'm ready to move to Ann Arbor. I want out. Please respond."
BTW Blue Wolverine,
There is a super secret plan under way for a VERY big name coach to come in and serve as the savior. No one remotely close to the old regime and one that you would never think would make the change, save one very ingteresting and important caveat.
May not happen, but it's worth the wait to see.
gulf, I buy that. The rules have been ridiculous, but he is respecting them. That does suggest someone else dicated the rules. But Sunday morning he had his chance to flex his own muscle and he passed.
Thanks for the comments guys. I'm right there with ya, Bluewolverine. I sleep like shit and wake up feeling like something is missing. And even though I know exactly why, I am--like all of us--completely powerless. Writing that letter provided the only (temporary) relief I've felt since waking up Saturday and hearing that Miles and Tenuta were on the way. Sigh...
now, all i've got is this keyboard and the aforementioned rusty spoon.
Meeechigan,
That is true. In fact, I'm told that LM reached out to MIchigan frequently through his agent and basically said "Offer me whatever, I'll come", this despite the fact that it would cost him credibility and the ability to recruit the south (again according to a source close to the fire).
That's how much Les Miles wanted to coach the University of Michigan, and the regime, for whatever reason, ignored him.
Chillmodious,
There is always hockey and softball. Great letter by the way.
And never the time nor the quantity to drink.
"There is always hockey and softball."
True. But come on... Samantha Findlay < Les Miles.
Addendum to my previous post - LM reached out after Saturday's game and after his public speech - STILL WANTING THE JOB!
sorry for the all caps, but damn!
just for the record, it wasn't my fault.
I realize all the, how can this be said gracefully, whiny children on this board ask how can Bill Martin be so antiquated, I present:
Schembechler was born and raised in Barberton, Ohio, a suburb of Akron. His nickname "Bo" came from his sister's attempts to say "brother" when they were young children. Schembechler's father was a firefighter. One of Schembechler's seminal experiences was seeing his father refuse to accept a stolen copy of a civil-service exam -- despite the fact that the other applicant was reported to have received a stolen copy himself. Schembechler's father took the exam without having received the answers, missed one more question than the other applicant, and did not receive the promotion he coveted. Schembechler often told the story, saying the experience taught him more about integrity than any lecture ever could have. Hard work and integrity were two themes of Schembechler's career
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Bo_...Bo_Schembechler
gulfcoast wolverine,
It's safe to say that Les has begun to move on. So, what now?
The optimist in me suggest that Martin will make things right by getting a Tedford or a Grobe to clean house.
However, I can smell a Mike Debord candidacy brewing.
Imagine if Martin quits right now...
Alright guys, I've "worked" (i.e. chatted here and put off my actual work) long enough. Got to go home. If anyone wants to e-mail me and discuss further, have at it: chillmodious@gmail.com
^These comment threads are as close to a 'support group' as it gets right now--at least for me.
Cheers.
Dear President Coleman,
I know your feening for some Ferentz cock right about now, but I implore you not to throw 100+ years of Michigan football tradition out the window for some the old Iowa salami. Les Miles is a fairly handsome man himself (with some huge brass balls I might add), and out of his love for UM, I am sure he will be willing to give you the deep dicking you need. And do you really want to take impotent Lloyd's advice when it comes to scoring?
Let's just leave it that Grobe or Ferentz (and maybe Tedford) are fall back positions.
I'm telling you, if what I hear could happen, happens . . . we'll all be dancing like little schoolgirls.
Alright guys, I've "worked" (i.e. chatted here and put off my actual work) long enough. Got to go home. If anyone wants to e-mail me and discuss further, have at it: chillmodious@gmail.com
^These comment threads are as close to a 'support group' as it gets right now--at least for me.
Cheers
BTW, Les has not "moved on" but we'll never learn that because the regime will never call.
Alright guys, I've "worked" (i.e. chatted here and put off my actual work) long enough. Got to go home. If anyone wants to e-mail me and discuss further, have at it: chillmodious@gmail.com
^^These comment threads are as close to a 'support group' as it gets right now--at least for me.
Cheers
What's really hilarious are people who say "Have faith in Martin, he made a great BBall coach hire!"
Are people's memories that short, or have they forgotten Coach Turtleneck already? Amaker couldn't recruit, couldn't discipline, couldn't develop, and was a poor strategist/X-O's guy. And he didn't make the tourney once, even with his most talented team.
Maybe Beilein will be good, maybe he won't. But we were stuck with Amaker for 7 years, and it'll take a couple more years to recover from the mess/lack of talent Amaker left be hind. It'll take that long before we can declare that hire a success.
It took (at least) two tries for Martin to get his second-biggest program hire right. And you believe he'll get the FB hire right the first time? I think it's time for you guys to refill your prescription.
UM FB program is at a crossroads. It's suffered from an ailing HC would couldn't give it the attention it deserved the last several years and has decayed. A dynamic HC could set it aright, or let it fall further into decay like Nebraska. If Martin gets this wrong, we're looking at 5 bleak years, and reversing the damage will be even more difficult.
This has to be done right the first time. Martin has not yet proved he can get a big-time hire done right the first time. The Miles debacle has done nothing to give me any hope he'll get this right either.
Gulfcoastwolverine -
Grobe is gone. Took the Ark. job.
gulfcoast wolverine,
This regime will never call anyone. They want Debord.
I cannot take the rollercoaster of the sports in this state. Love the Wings, Lions make me puke, Pistons are Awesome, Michigan wants to make me jump of a 12 story building and break both legs (less pain) and the Tigers make me want to vote for Illitch for President!!
If they bring in Debord I will Depart.
dont worry guys....Les our savior will rise from the dead and resurrect our program!
I can't wait for the dancing and partying to begin....lets all meet at skeeps and party when this is true because it will be
I believe that all Michigan fans need to stand up for are selfs and do something about it start sending the e-mails ppl please we cant sit here and whine like this"it's not the Michigan way" haha really start sending the e-mails ppl over 80% on the net wanted miles on the net speak up
@GulfCoast
I will never make threats I can not deliver on. As often as I wanted to "give up" on Michigan football this year, and told myself I wouldn't watch anymore games after the Appy State/Oregon debacles, it is not a realistic approach. I love the school and the team too much to just ignore them and not watch games...even if they hire Debord. I will bitch, and complain, and be furious...but I could never be apathetic and not watch the games. For better or worse, I am stuck with this team.
Dear God BIGL, you left out the stretch play left.
Let's organize a rally in A2 for Les Miles.
Gulfcoast wolverine,
Thank you for the supportive message. I will hold out for the surprise you describe with a guarded sense of optimism.
Just to note how pathetic I am, I am literally hours away from completing my work on a Master's degree in electrical engineering and I am nearly unable to focus on that by purging this situation from my thoughts.
Kelly is not a candidate because this happened while he was at Central and he handled the aftermath poorly:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/
ne...ce=NCFHeadlines
As for the schedule, we're not playing a paticularly strong schedule in 2008 either:
http://mgoblue.com/football/arti...e.aspx?
id=40930
This bothers me. We played better out of conference games when I was a student.
I think Beilein was a good hire for the basketball team. I don't feel as good about what is happening here.
No joke. With Brian's reach, and going through the Michigan Daily and student Body, we can organize a rally. Get it covered by D-free press, it will go to espn. Put so much damn pressure on the administration that they have almost no choice.
Klima:
Do you have a source on the Grobe to Arkansas call? I did not see it on ESPN. Thanks.
@ Hobo,
My bad,
That was in my original message yesterday. Called it...Run left strategy.
Bend It,
Yeah. You're right. My biggest departure was Tivo-ing the couple games after oregon, but by month's end I was back at it and involved. Still, to know that they would do such a thing is similar to finding out your igrl is cheating on you. You may stay, but it will never be the same and the chances of marriage are two steps past slim.
\For better or worse, I am stuck with this team.//
Yep...like Nick Hornby wrote in "Fever Pitch"..."did I choose Arsenal...or did Arsenal choose me?"
Imagine cheering for Michigan and the Red Sox at the same time (prior to 2004, at least). That's some real self-persecution, I can tell you.
I'm pretty sure those were my players that Kelly had to clean up after.
Rock City Sports Nut-
Could not agree more about the Michigan sports scene!
Neither MarySue nor Lloyd went to the U of M, they don't understand our emotional ties to the university. They don't understand that football is the conduit for us to remember the good times, to appreciate what Michigan brought to our lives, and to remove all of our barriers and differences. To them, it's a job they are trying to hire someone to fill.
Bill Martin understands that, and you can tell from the interviews that he is angry about what had transpired. Broken blackberry and all, if all the meddling stops, Bill will hire the right person.
However, I just don't see the others releasing the shackles on Bill any time soon. The quality candidates are being snatched up one by one, and at the end, we are left with Mike Debord.
I think we need to email the trustees and get MarySue removed.
i am up for the rally deal
is my name in the hat?
Klima:
Forget it. I did a quick google search of Arkansas newspapers. Grobe is indeed going to Arkansas. We can scratch him off the list. I hope Brian didn't spend much time buffing out a profile on him.
another good coach bites the dust
Murl
Grobe to UA still a rumor:
http://www2.arkansasonline.com/n...-search/?
sports
I guess we'll know tomorrow.
Billy, Billy, who can I turn to?
You give me something I can hold on to.
I know you think I'm like the others before
Who saw your name and number on the wall
Billy, I got your number,
I need to make you mine.
Billy, don't change your number,
8-6-7-5-3-0-9 (8-6-7-5-3-0-9)
8-6-7-5-3-0-9 (8-6-7-5-3-0-9)
see ya, i'm going to R-Kansas.
Suckers!!!!
We need a rally! At our damn liberal university we have PC rallies and protests for everything! Rallies for refugees, rallies for hippies, rallies for commies, rallies for christian, rallies for affirmative action, protests against Nike, protests against gun, protest against domestic violence.
Its about time we rally for something important :). JK
But for real. A pro Les rally is what we need on campus. Brian help us organize!
The Les is More Rally.
Hold a rally to do what? Demand that Coleman/Martin resign? Can you imagine how Sparty and Brutus laughing their collective asses off at that sight?
Rally all you want - I ruined your chance....nana-nana boo boo!!! :0
Les is More Rally!
Yes . . . I'll be there in 22 and 1/2 hours.
Ben in SF-
Great points!
People who haven't attended Michigan often fail to realize what a unifying experience Michigan football provides for the incredibly diverse array of people on campus.
i've got a name for you...nobody
has thought of yet. i cheap man's jeff tedford - STEVE MARIUCCI??
Caup:
Thanks for the link. Gsimmons is going to be bitter that King Grobe appears headed off the market...
Hey - I was 0-3-1 against you - Now I consider myself 300-3-1 against you!!!
mk, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with observations about BM competence.
Is anyone from Michigan gonna call me?
Les called me and thanked me because it got him another 800k per year!!!
remove the president!! but all we care about is really our graduation rate? oh the hypocricy!!
Its really a shame that Kirk Herbstreit cant spell his own name correctly. He must have had a tutor do all his work at tosu
I have BM in my pocket - he is a robot hired by OSU - why else would he keep Lloyd and then blow off Les Miles....???
.....i wonder if i can get my old gig back?? *BURP*
Hey - I went to OSU - what do you expect?? Big Tex would be much easier...
Herbie - spell your name correctly
@ mk,
Of course Sparty and Brutus will laugh...
They dont understand massive gatherings without burning couches, flipped cars, and destroyed property.
I said rally...not riot.
Better?
Gingell, make it happen (rally)! I am in Cleveland or I would come.
How about Hurbstreet.
you spell about as well as you break news on college game day
this is too funny:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_a0o9LBCd7Q
Like I said, beating Michigan this way was much better than beating them - oh wait - we never did when I was there....
Gulf Coast,
I hope you are right, but every time I hear one of these hopeful comments about the great unnamed coach, I want to cry.
On another subject, I don't doubt your friend with the LC information is sincere. But if his source is Danielson, I would be very dubious. Danielson's affection for Michigan is only rivaled by Mark May's.
BILG,
Word.
\Danielson's affection for Michigan is only rivaled by Mark May's.//
Or Colin Cowherd's.
you wanted evidence, here it is:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-
PkJA...feature=related
...Sparty and Brutus will laugh...
mk,
Who cares... Ultimately, we need to free Bill Martin up to make the best decision for Michigan. No more Mike Debord. No more Kirk Ferentz.
I will fly in for the rally. I need Brian to help organize. He has a lot of reach with his blog.
I will contact the Michigan daily tomorrow to see what we can do.
Anyone have a facebook account linked to Michigan students?
Hey Herby,
AT least you got a tie against UM!
How can I help with the rally? Want me to call Herbsreit again?
Bill in B'Ham,
That's the point - it's not about people with an affection one way or another in the media. It's the people who can observe from the sideline that have no dog in the fight.
No need to spin it. No need to justify a position, becuase they don't have a position. To me, those are the most credible sources of all.
A tie? shoot that's like kissin yer sister....and we know what that's like down in ohio...did i ever tell ya'll that i can spell O-h-i-o-h?
gulfcoast-
Why be guarded about this "hot" coaching if he really exists? Go ahead and tell us.
I'm waiting.
"How can I help with the rally? Want me to call Herbsreit again?" - Lloyd Carr
Herbstreit,
See how your boy did you in? He didn't even bother spelling your name correctly.
Do the right thing and shut the f**k up until you have multiple confirmations on a story.
I dont understand at all. If they want Miles, even despite the obvious blunder over the weekend, then CALL. LES. NOW. It's not entirely too late.
If they DON'T want Les, than put one name on the list that's better.
To date it appears they've done neither.
Sorry, right now, it's too ludicrous sounding to merit anything more than immediate dismissal by the community. If it plays out with any more forward momentum, I'll let you know. Right now, even I think it's pie in the sky, but simply the fact that we're sincerely trying gives me hope.
I can't believe we would turn down a man with such a passion and love for this program (like the rest of us on here) who, (oh by the way) is one of the top coaches in the country right now. LSU has lost 2 games a year in the fucken SEC the last 3 years. For fucken Fernentz!!!!! 6-6 in Big Ten, NO Michigan in is heart and soul.
This is sickening.
If we're serious about this rally thing, I have contacts at the two Detroit sports stations.
BILG,
Hold the rally at Barton Hills. MarySue and Lloyd don't give a crap about the campus, just like they don't give a crap about us.
Gulf Coast,
Understoodon the LC thing. That is just stunning to even think about.
Also understand your response to blue93. If not a name, any idea on timing?
Ok. I'll spill it. It's Bill Belichek!
Given your geographic location, the only guy you rcould possibly be talkng about is Pete Carrol, right?
It has to be on campus. Best way to get turnout in #s---Students already there. Get a bunch of video footage for ESPN. If we can't get what we want, at least we can make BM and MSC's lives miserable.
gulfcoast:
we have zero reason to believe you. if you wish to speculate, speculate away, but the idea that you can't say because it will be soundly rejected by the community is more problematic for your alleged credibility than your actually giving the name.
I was a Lloyd apologist for a long time. He was, and is, a genuinely good human being who cared deeply about others...
However, derailing Les Miles in favor of Mike Debord or Brady Hoke makes me SICK. He is just another empire builder after all.
I tend to fall into the "everything is gonna be alright" camp. One angle that everybody is missing here involves a certain legal angle. Both schools have legal counsel helping them navigate the murky waters of LM's anti-Michigan clause. Both schools know for damn certain that LM loves his Blue. Who of us here doesn't? This guy bleeds blue. LSU wants its money back if LM bolts. Keeping that in mind, had Michigan contacted LM out of the blue with notice of LM's anti-Michigan clause and had LM bolted, LSU would have been able to go after not only LM but also against Michigan arguably for tortious interference with contract. BM and Michigan did the right thing, they asked LSU for permission to negotiate with LM first. LSU gave BM permission to do so after a certain date, thus avoiding any possible liability exposure if this whole thing ended up butt ugly from LSU's perspective. Michigan now has LSU's permission and a bunch of cocky statements from LSU's administration saying that Michigan could have contacted LM's agent. Michigan, thus, avoids any liability exposure by calling/speaking with LM or his agent after the SEC game. BM's strategy was solid, strictly speaking, from a legal perspective. What BM didn't account for is LM and his greedy agent panicking when OSU's Herby ran with the story with LSU playing hard ball. Screwed the whole thing up!!! Kind of like trying to call a time out when your own team has just intercepted the ball (reference to LM's own questionable thinking). Not sure where this will all end up. Part of me loves LM because he sounds like Bo and occasionally acts like Woody. Love the intensity (pit-bull mentality), and love the fact that LM is smart enough to hire smart assistants. In this respect, LM is smarter than George Bush. Things work out for a reason. All of us old enough, remember believing that Brian Greese was a washout until he came back from taking his Dale Carnegie courses and played his best ball his senior year. Or, how about John Navarre in his senior year against OSU?? Michigan brings out the best in people. BM is handling this the right way. If it is meant to be with LM, LM will have to say he still wants to play ball. Truth is, LM had a gun to his head (by his own doing) and chose the kids that he is currently coaching over his alma matter. Can't fully blame the man. Oh well, these are my ramblings
Oh c'mon. Like he'd ever leave the pros. He's not on record as having ever expressed an ounce of interest in coaching the college game.
Did Herbstriet tip you on that?
BILG,
I *think* I could get Brian all over 97.1 The Ticket in Detroit to promote it, my in there is very strong. If we're serious about making this happen I can give it a try.
gulfcoast:
i soundly reject the idea that they are pursuing bill belichek...thanks for wasting our time...
A rally? Are we in junior high?
You are worse than Notre Dumb fans.
@gulfcoast
Alright, you've stretched your credibility to the max there. Bill Belichek has no ties that I'm aware of to UM. Why on earth would he coach there when he's already working for the best organization in the NFL?
That BM has grand aspirations is fine, but getting isn't the same as wanting.
Besides, while Belichek has the tools to coach NFL, that doesn't necessarily translate well to coaching college kids. I think I'd rather have a guy who's proven he can coach college. We don't need another Callahan.
If the Hoodie could get another year of eligibility for Brady....
BILG, get some ex football players to speak at the rally, sounds like there's plenty of 'em. Hell yes, the Les is More Rally. My kids would love to put on their M gear and go yell for Les.
Ryan,
I am 100% serious. Let's get Brian on board. The fans and the public need a voice here that is louder than just the blog.
And an alumni band to rock the joint
Dude,
Not cool using my name with the Belcheck line. I don't need to play this shit.
I'm not a serial blogger, in fact prior to today I'd posed a grand total of three times on this blog. I happened to have a very stunning conversation with someone who knows and shared as much as I could without compromising my source (because it could effecrt his F-ING job).
Bill, The potential new coach superstar possibility has no timing because this was just something thrown out at the end of the conversation with my source and when I said "No way it could happen" I was informed of some interesting reasons why it might, which gives me hope butnothing more.
Where the fuck is Brian?
I say we have a Naked Miles in support of Les.
I can see the headline already: Lesticles flop to and fro at the Naked Miles.
I'm there! Ya with me?
I would rather see an over the top Civil Disobedience gathering in Bill Martin's office until he gets on the phone to hire Les. Everyone just sit-in until he either resigns or pays him what he wants. I would get arrested if it got Miles hired. Seriously.
After, that's taken care of, take a dump on MSC's desk.
If Brian gets on board, I'll see what I can do from my side. We obviously need a face before we start trying to get press. You can e-mail me at goblue91@gmail.com if you want my help.
You could even study for exams while you're sitting there.
Get it together U-M students. SIT-IN AT MARTIN'S OFFICE!!!
someone should contact the Maize Rage students ... they must be football fans too. They could hop up and down and yell "OOOOHHHHHHH" in front of MSC's place.
Hey, can't be there, but I will, in someone's immortal words, "chuck a hundy" into the pot for signs and logistics and shit.
A sit-in would be so very Ann Arbor. All the old hippies would go crazy about it since that doesn't happen anymore.
MDan, East side or West side of Cleveland? I'm on the West Side.
Virtually NO college players ever play in the pros or make a living in football after college.
Many of them play football because it is the only way they can afford to go to college (I know many of them personally).
They damn well care about graduating!!
.
I just sent Brian this email.
Brian,
Love your blog. I need your help. We are all sickened by the latest happenings in the coaching search. Miles bleeds blue and loves this program as much as any of us students/alumni, and he wanted to come here, and he just happens to be an elite coach. How could they do him like that...For Ferentz (6-6 coach with no Blue in his heart and soul)?
You have some reach. Alumni football players would jump in on this. We need Les, Brian. We need you to help push this. Let's do something for the future of our program. Put so much damn pressure on the AD that they at least have to listen to the voice of the fans. Get it all over ESPN. Let Les know that there is plenty of love for him in Ann Arbor.
The Les is More rally.
Can you hear me now?
87'er, that dog don't hunt. Bill Martin had a chance on Sunday morning - freshly outside of that insanely timed non-contact window, to set things aright. He bitch-slapped the agent and put Miles - a NC coach with a 32-6 record at a big-time school - in line with Brady-fucking-Hoke and other jokers.
It was not about legal niceties, it was about passing on Les without looking like they were passing on the most popular candidate.
this makes me sick:
http://blog.mlive.com/jim_carty/
...ber_5.html#more
deBord, you may be right, but the issue is how Kelly handled the situation. More on that here (toward the end):
http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/
...ovember_26.html
Meeechigan Dan, I was one of the ones calling for us all to keep our heads. I still feel that way, in the sense that panic never helps. That's not to say we should just accept what's happening.
I had held out hope, and actually some expectation, that BM was really doing some beautifully dastardly deed of hiring Miles and preserving M's reputation to do things the right way.
After the Carty article today, I can only conclude BM doesn't want Les, or he's been told no Les.
To hell with that.
The problem is that very few of the most famous alums don't live here. Jeff Backus isn't exactly going to put pressure on MSC.
Avon Lake...
BIG problem with all the rally/email Martin et all --- it's all based on pure speculation.
If none of the speculation is true, oops everyone looks like fools.
.
I like the sit-in much more. Not to split us into rival factions, but it is one thing to scream and yell and another to say WE ARE NOT GOING AWAY UNTIL YOU DO THE RIGHT THING.
Westlake.
Gulf Coast,
I was playing with you on the Hoodie comment...I knew you weren't serious about him. Hope you're right, whoever it is!
Aaron L,
A rally on campus has happened about 100 million times before, we all know how easy it would be to pull off. There haven't been sit-in's since the 70's. We'd never be able to pull it off.
@ Aaron L,
Please excuse me, but I am feeling more Malcolm X and less MLK Jr. these days.
A rally on campus has happened about 100 million times before, we all know how easy it would be to pull off. There haven't been sit-in's since the 70's.
Not true, but do go on.
BILG:
I like to put the Brother Malcolm-MLK comparison this way:
Less Ben Folds.
More SLAYER!
Maize, we'll have a Cleveland sit-in. Not sure where.
Bad joke. Don't mess with anyone's handle, please.
Thanks for sharing, gulfcoast. If you hear more, don't hesitate to share.
Ok.
I guess we'll have to live with Debord or Hoke then. (j/k) (sort of)
The whole point is....
We need to speak up. This isn't just about Les. It's about the administrations utter disregard for the voice of their fans...you know...US. To not even interview the guy is an insult to all of us. The blind support of LC and all the cronyism over the past decade needs to be put on trial. And we can start with a rally.
i told him not to get a blackberry
The Squid,
Which wasn't true? Do you really think we'd be able to get into the AD's office and sit-in? Rallies and protests happen on or near campus a lot. Unless you're from an alternate universe Ann Arbor.
This has actually gotten to the point that, for the first time ever, when I see a new MGoBlog post on my blog reader, I get a feeling of defeat, in a "Oh no, what went wrong now?" sort of way.
I'm picking up a check in western NY these days...if any of you OH guys need a lift to a potential rally I'm game!
JW, R-Lew, Bill et al,
I just about turned off my computer and said fuck it forever, all because some asshole used my name and posted a Bill Belicheck is the next coach line, rendering anything associated with my username in the past uncredible. (welcome to the blogosphere).
So, this will be my last post and i'll stick to lurking from now on.
I live in Florida, my source works in Florida and has direct access to every SEC coach and AD. The man on the radar screen right now for us is Urban Meyer and the only reason he would even consider it is because of his relationship (beyond strained) with Jeremy Foley.
Believe it. Don't. I don't really care. I know what I've heard and I trust the people who have told me. They have the access and they don't have the agenda. From the Les Miles debacle down, they have no reason to fabricate or lie. Lloyd fucked Les. ESPN allowed it to happen, and so eventually did Martin.
Take it for whatever you feel its worth.
did anyone read through the tigerdroppings site linked in mgolicious?
wow, someone needs to tell "gamezero" the civil war is over, we're all on the same team now buddy.
MDan, Braylon's house would be a good spot. Not many places for a UM fan to hang out at in tOSU North.
Backing up...I was completely joking about Martin's office and all that. If one were to organize a sit in it would have to be outside his building and so on.
I have to say, though, I'd be surprised if there weren't enough fanatics in town to have a significant one.
Just throwing ideas out. No need to tell me how dumb I am. I already know.
You guys, I am telling you. We need to have some volition here. We need to empower the fanbase. Everyone on here who has seen me post before know that I am one of the most pessimistic, defeatest, bitching, sarcastic, cynical fans of UM alive. But I think we can do something here. We need to mobilize the masses!
Les IS More
Which wasn't true? Do you really think we'd be able to get into the AD's office and sit-in? Rallies and protests happen on or near campus a lot. Unless you're from an alternate universe Ann Arbor.
You said that there haven't been any sit-ins on campus since the 70s, which isn't true.
Gulf Coast,
If I could pick one coach in America, it would be him. Hope you're right....totally understand why you didn't want to bring it up. Sorry some jerk did that to you.
@gulfcoast
Sorry that happened.
Before you stop, could you at least post the reasons why the guy thought it might happen? I'm very much intrigued (with Miles gone, need some hope).
Gulfcoast,
Thanks for the continuing updates.
That is a very surprising name, especially given the circumstances around last year's championship game and this year's bowl matchup. Really surprising that our AD would reach out to that particular coach in light of recent history.
gulfcoast:
i'll take you at your word and respect your point of view. if you say that's what you've heard, then i have no reason to doubt it. i'm not going all "WE'RE IN ON MEYER - ALL IS WELL - CALL OFF THE SIT-IN/RALLY" or anything, but it's an interesting idea and, if true, very exciting.
appreciate it....thanks.
As much as I'd like to hope U. Meyer might have some interest, my gut tells me we have just as much chance of landing Belicheck as him.
Meechigan Dan,
Do we really have any solid evidence of BM bitch slapping LM's agent on the Sunday phone call? (Can you tell I'm one of those dastardly attorneys?) BM called the guy to inquire whether LM was still interested, and the agent (channeling LM) said "too late, the ship has sailed." I'm thinking that as much as I originally fell in man-love with LM that he is truly an emotional hot-head spazmandu. With that said, I will quickly fall back in love with LM if he comes back soon saying I made a mistake and then proceeds to kick Tressel's ass every year until sweater vests come back into fashion. Spazmandus can still be good college coaches. I'm such a slut!!
If we pull off Meyer,
Rally would backfire. Shit.
The Squid is right about the sit-ins.
There were sit-ins in the late 90s when some students took exception to the Michigamua space in the Union's upper floors on Central Campus.
The Squid,
I meant more in reference to the scale. A sit-in in the an administration office would be impossible in 2007.
Fuck that,
These bozos need be put on trial for all their cronyism and idiocy. No stopping the rally fuckers.
Les IS More
As a former prosecutor, I have to tell you, I committed people in mental incompetency hearings who are more stable than some of the people on this blog. "Let's have a rally" wait, "but not if we can get U. Meyer."
Hell, I think I could be diagnosed as manic-depressive over the events of the last few days.
Bend It Like Gingel
Exactly!
Guys, I cannot understand what Martin was thinking in not returning calls. But college football coach agents are up there with faith healing televangelists and used car salesmen for trustworthiness. I would be VERY skeptical of Bass' version of events.
If we get Urban, he might agree to speak at the rally.
Nothing is hurt by having a rally no matter what is going on with Urban Meyer. Really, who cares?
What is needed is for massive attention to getting something organized so it can happen ASAP. Somebody get this thing going. Set the time for Friday or whatever and get on facebook, etc. and get it going. I'd do it myself, but I'm not in AA.
MoscowBlue:
Amen.
Between the annual Christmas crisis at work and the Michigan coaching situation I'm hoping to avoid flipping my lid before I can get home to Michigan to see my folks for Christmas.
people are eager for meyer?
obviously time has erased that smug sob's smirk at the end of last season from everyone's memory.
i'd take msc on the sidelines before i could throw my support behind meyer and not feel like i was sleeping with a dirty hooker every night.
I have posted on more than one thread that a source of mine (in Michigan media) said months ago that Urban Meyer was on Michigan's radar. He had a clause singling out ONLY ND and Michigan as programs to go to, and no OSU. He respected Bo and likes Michigan.
Don't rule gulfcoast out on this one. I am serious.
Guys, we're playing Florida on January 1. No one's ever heard of Gulfcoast before. I cannot, cannot for one minute, believe Urban Meyer would come here. Isn't it possible we got ourselves a Gator here. No offense Gulfcoast, but we need to go ahead with this rally.
MoscowBlue:
Did any of those mentally incompetent people ever recover and lead normal lives? Also, can you still get a job if you become a manic-depressive as a result of this coaching search? I'm going to get fired soon if they don't hire someone. I can't bill Brian for my time here, unfortunately.
Aaron L,
If we go for something fast it hurts our chances at getting major attention. What major alum could we get on that notice?
I'm not even going to read this whole thread. King Grobe to Arkansas.
I'm legitmately bummed.
say hi to patrick beverly, King.
87'er, it was reported by Martin that he told the agent that Les is "one of 3 or 4 candidates" under consideration, thus making an emergency resolution to the weekend's problems impossible.
Rally for me.
dcdave,
I think he'd do it. He seems like a Saban- lite kind of guy, but after Florida and here he'd have no place to jump to.
ThWard:
It's worth your time. I'm serious. Sometimes I get home and just don't have the energy. Tonight I have work to do, yet I read this one and I'm telling you, it's a doozy...
Don't sweat it. You can repair your marriage after we get a new coach. And, we can open our own firm after we get fired. All's well...
First off, the rally is an awesome idea and nothing should stop it.
The Meyer comment came as a "I don't want to get your hopes up, but" comment.
I, for one, don't see any reason why he would come - he probably will win a NC in one of the next two years, becuase Tebow is the kind of kid who will stay all 4 years, plus pull in great recruits.
I was told, however, that there is much more to it than that - mostly that Jeremy Foley is not a pleasant man to work for and is a strong reason why Donovan looked for (and almost took) an exit strategy. Foley, I was also told, specifically fired Zook after the Miss State game, so that Meyer could get hired prior to an anticipated Michigan opening two years ago.
For whatever reason, Meyer has an affinity for the Mich job and according to my info - the two factors - his absolute disdain for Foley and the chance to be the savior (given the Miles situation)- might, and I say with a very slight hope - might be enough to make him do it.
Plus, and this was quite important to me, the national coaching community believes that Michigan's coaches are well below-average and any coach coming into a program like that with the opportunity the University presents would absolutely be in a premium position. Again, take it for what it's worth.
Now, for real, I'm out.
.....where is the rally? i'll make the float.
Ryan,
I don't know. I don't know how anything gets done in this world. Maybe if we think about it long enough it will all work out.
Look at Bill, he's had since September to formulate a list of potential replacements, Lloyd retired almost three weeks ago, and we have a coach already right? Everything will just work out ok in the end.
Whatever you do, don't be hasty. It's not like exams are next week and people are leaving town or anything.
Where the fuck is Brian? I sent him an email about the rally. We need him on this one. What alums can we get to speak. Braylon is close...in Ohio....but his is a Carr guy, doubt he wants to offend Carr. We could get Desmond, He loves to talk and has a pretty free schedule.
Bill Belicheck???????? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was as pissed at anybody at Meyer this time last year. Guess what....look who did exactly what he did this year. Richt. Stoops. Les Miles. They were all pimping their teams. Every one did it this year, they just weren't doing it to us.
And, yes, I happen to think Urban Meyer is one of four coaches-with Stoops, Carroll and the Dark Lord of Sweater Land, who clearly are the A-List.
Do I think we would get him? No. But would I be calling to see? Absolutely. And would I take him over Les, absolutely. I hope Gulf Coast's contact is right.
God, this whole scene gives me an ice cream headache. Everyone has to promise me that when this whole thing is over, regardless of the outcome, you'll all come back and admit your individual hysteria was assinine. For example, if you have been berating B. Martin and he somehow pulls a fabulous hire out of his ass, you'll admit you're a douchebag. Similarly, if you're defending B. Martin and he hires Debord (fucking kittens) you'll do likewise.
If we hire Brady Hoke, we can all just kill ourselves together, to avoid the malaise that is coming to Ann Arbor. At least with DeBord we can be assured of hiring someone new in 2 or 3 years.
I know that I've been sounding like a Bill Martin apologist all day in various mgoblog threads, but something stinks here and it's not just Martin and Michigan.
Miles and his agent clearly either tried to strong-arm Michigan or unnecessarily panicked. There was absolutely no reason for Miles to go on TV Saturday afternoon. I still don't understand why he did if he really wanted the Michigan job as much as everyone claims he did.
Urban Meyer??..........man, the hits just keep on coming. You've got more shit than a christmas goose.
BiB, you may be right that we still can't be sure of BM's goals, and we shouldn't necessarily trust a sports agent, but with each successive piece of news, it looks more and more that BM has said Les is Less, no go. I haven't given up 100% of the hope that BM is going to turn out to have worked out a machiavellian masterpiece of backroom dealing here and still deliver Les, but I've given up about 99.5% of that hope.
How about Ara Perseghian? He's still alive!!
Scott Dreisbach is only in Columbus, could we get him?
All I am saying is that there are two types of desperate rumors: pathetic, maybe we can get Stoops or Carroll bleating that is unhinged, and Urban Meyer, who I have heard on more than one occassion, has a little Blue in his blood. That desperate rumor is no less desperate, but it isn't pathetic.
I'm going to throw one name into the hopper - GERRY FAUST!!
Les had a football team to coach. In the conference championship no less. He had a very compelling reason to go on TV Staurday afternoon. The guy's agent was calling Martin, begging for something to give his client. My God! And our AD was out sailing.
Moscow,
Well said. Count me in.
Why does it seem like everyone here has a source in the know?
in all seriouness, if you think urban meyer is coming to michigan, you need to seek mental help. either that, or you are dirt fuck stupid.
We should try to get Brady to speak. That would totally make it legit.
@ Moscow Blue,
None of us knows the ends at this point, and we could very well stumble upon a gold mine.
What we all agree with though, is the Miles situation was not handled appropriately. From and institution always proclaiming itself as classy with integrity, this was an embarrassment. You DO NOT treat one of your own like we treated Miles.
No matter what BM pulls off here, he mishandled the Les Miles situation. Miles needs to know the love we have for him here in AA, whether or not he is the next Michigan coach, he is stillk one of ours. These AD clowns need to be called out on their incompetence and cronyism.
Yeah, especially since Brady has advocated publicly for Debord.
fwiw, i've heard of gulfcoast before...vaguely. rarely posts, but is very level headed, iirc. that's probably why i remember him, as most posters in recent weeks have become....melodramatic is the best way i can put it.
don't forget...Beilien was an 'off the radar' guy till later on in the process. iirc, his PiH came pretty late, and not until it was clear he was among he top 3-5.
my gut has told me that there's a chance a guy could come out of nowhere. no basis for this, at all. i was thinking maybe a lower division coach or stoops/urban, but i figured they were waaaay long shots, which they are.....
but, if Urban is in play, this does explain a lot of the sat. stuff. Miles really wasn't the top guy & martin thus never felt pressure to contact him till sun. i really think alot of this herbie report came from friends of LM who got waaaaaaay ahead of themselves and assumed too much. i think i read somewhere else that he's not getting along w/ the AD/UPres down there too.
I think this might have been brought up, but if not...
http://www.arkansasnews.com/arch...ews/
344292.html
Ryan,
The scuttlebutt I've seen seems to indicate that Brady thinks MDB is A-okay!
Say it ain't so Tom!
MoscowBlue,
Just him being there would immediately make it an important event. I don't care if he comes up and starts chanting "DE BORD".
Also, he'd bring Giselle.
Yeah, i forgot about that "standoffish" comment by BM to the agent. New theory: LM's agent is a secret double agent for Jim Tressel!!!! That's who we should really all be damning to hell.
I'll be sad when all of this drama is over, frankly. This is a great community of smarty-pants and smart aleks commonly bound by a love for those winged helmets. And, I'm referring to the ones on the football field rather than in Moscow (nearly pee-ed my pants reading that post the other day, not sure who sent it -- too funny).
Listen guys, somebody told me today that at work - he has ties to the athletic department - that the new coach has already been selected. You are not going to believe this! Ready!? It's going to be TONY DUNGY! They are just waiting for the Colts to finish up there season, and then they are going to announce it. Meanwhile, carry on here with your wild speculation and innuendo.
once more:
if you think urban meyer's our coach
stop smoking and put down your roach
he blew off south bend
his travels will end
in florida: not a place you can poach
I'm sure Brady will fly right out to A2, what with the short week to prepare for Pittsburg on Sunday. Come on -- the rally thing is really, really, really gay. Sorry.
Actual Quote:
"I don't know where he is nor do I, you know, I just don't spend that much time on him. You know, again, I don't know where he is. I, uh, heh, heh, uh, I uh, repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him"
It is:
a) Bill Martin talking about Les Miles
b) Brian talking about Kirk Ferentz
c) George Bush talking about Osama bin Laden
.
I don't know, the Urban thing just seems too weird to me based on what's gone down in the public sphere and the AD's stance toward Miles.
Heck, people are annoyed with Harbaugh's comments about Michigan and he is (was?) a bonafide Michigan QB hero!
Just too wild.
extremely gay
I'm not sure what's worse:
A) How much I hated Blue Man Group's sarcastic post or,
B) Two seconds later my mind remembered Dungy is from Jackson and used to come to Ann Arbor to play basketball as a kid.
what do you think of tony dungy?
Two comments:
One,I am not a Miles supporter because I think we can do better,but BIGL is right that he was treated inappropriately.
Second, as far as Meyer goes, as the lastest troll Bluto says, I am dirt shit stupid. Whatever. I don't think we will get him. But if Martin is TRYING to get him, it would be the best news I have heard since this whole CF of the last few days started. The fact that Martin was TRYING to get Meyer means that he has not yet surrendered to mediocrity. I think we all could get behind that, whether we love Les, hate Meyer or are in between.
i think belicheck picked mushrooms up near gaylord one time too. put him down as a candidate.
Drew Henson is available.
Dungy is from Michigan. But he'd need an offensive genius like me.
Belicheck was a Lions assistant in the 70's if you really want an area connection.
urban meyer........LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. God damn, that is funny.
Chris Perry is available. Spencer Brinton is busy with his 11 wives and 38 children.
the pope was in detroit once, put him down too.
We should offer $4 mil base to Meyer with incentives. He could be our savior, and if he resurrects Michigan football he will be a legend. I'm not exaggerating here. Nobody think he's a bonafide legend right now b/c he's in Spurrier's shadow. And granted Bo is our legend, but I wouldn't doubt if Meyer's desire to elevate our program is strong.
hahaha @ Brinton
yeah, chris perry isn't playing for the bengals. what's he played about 50 snaps in his career? sad thing is, he'll be better than hart in the nfl.
the other thing is that the rivals stuff is pissing me off. i have no subscrip, but c'mon....they went from KF is a candidate ...to not ....to it's his job if he wants it .....to it's a smokescreen.
anything they say is designed to pull in $$$.
Enjoy Life,
The post of the week. My answer is d) all of the above.
I see this going one of two ways:
1) There's either a dark horse candidate that no one is talking about or 2) BM's 20-man list was saved on his malfunctioning and he can't remember any of the names on it besides Miles who was like #19.
He's either got this really under control or it's spiralling out of control. There's no middle ground. The BM interview with the press - one which he had like 4 days to prepare responses for - did nothing to make me think we're dealing with #1, but, I guess we'll find out soon...or sometime in February.
lol........urban meyer. no, he's not a legend at florida. not at all.
suffrrrfin suckotassssshhhh *spit*
I just kept waiting for the follow up question at spicy BM.s press conference -- "Um, sir, are you retarded?"
I meant to say "his malfunctioning blackberry" above...
what about Marty Schotenheimer? Didn't he live in Kalamazoo once?
Todd Collins is also available.
Sadly I think the rally seemed to die as soon as BILG stopped posting comments, which makes me think it will never happen. Damn my expectations of unlikely events.
****
I figured it out!
Bill didn't have the nights and weekend package from verizon wireless!
****
Actually, one of my friends at ESPN Deportes told me that Lou is actually a candidate. He plans on giving a practice run through of his first lockerroom speech at Michigan Stadium during the bowl coverage.
Dierdorf was pretty fired up in the paper today.
What exactly did Dierdorf say?
at least holtz can do magic tricks for the players!!
FWIW, I heard Meyer expressed interest in the job before the shitshow this weekend. And he was supposed to be in NYC yesterday while Bill Martin had is secret meeting not with Ferentz.
If I've said it once, I've said it 1000 times -- this thing stopped being a shit storm over the weekend. It's now a full fledged diarrhea hurricane.
It's been a Category Five since at least Sunday.
Dierdorf and Holtz........wow, get the spit shields ready.
Dierdorf comments from MLive:
"Dan Dierdorf, one of the most famous alums from the early Schembechler era, also is curious what happened with the candidate he was pushing.
"I'm disappointed that Les Miles isn't the new head coach," Dierdorf said. "I was hoping that would happen. I think I'm just like every other Michigan guy out there wondering what the thought process was that came to the conclusion that Les Miles wasn't the right fit for Michigan. I'll be anxious to have that explained."
Dierdorf's biggest concern is that he hopes money - bridging the gap between the nearly $1.5 million that Lloyd Carr is making and the multi millions other top coaches are making these days - didn't sink any possible dealings with Miles.
"I hope we're not setting a price tag and saying whomever we hire has to work with this," Dierdorf said. "I'd be terribly disappointed if that's the way we're doing business."
Dierdorf and Caldarazzo admit they're both biased as former offensive linemen for the Wolverines, just like Miles was. But they felt Miles was the best candidate out there, regardless of his connection to Michigan.
"He was my horse, he went off on the inside and somehow stumbled down the stretch," Dierdorf said. "All I know is this: the phone lines and the Internet have been smoking with everybody trying to figure out what's going on."
...
Like everyone else, they're left wondering and waiting for what's next.
"I know that a coaching search can't be done too public, but people are getting hired (elsewhere) and all that comes out of Ann Arbor is silence," Dierdorf said. "Maybe in the end we'll all pat Bill on the back and say job well done.
"I'm not saying that can't happen. But, boy, we're all starting to get a little anxious."
He must read MGoBlog.
The Squid -
I've seen your point raised before - why did Les have to do a TV presser? Well, here's one answer.
Les to players: Guys, what ESPN is reporting is not true. Seriously.
Players: Yeah, right. All the coaches say they're not leaving then leave. ESPN would not lie.
Les: OK, I'll prove it by telling everyone in a presser before the game.
(In fact, if I were in his position, and I believed that it was important to my players (and asst coaches) that they have the peace of mind of knowing that I would stay after the game, I would hold a presser too.)
Michael Taylor will speak at the rally if you pay him $30.
Ed Martin is already onboard to fund the rally...
I realized I'll be drawn and quartered for trying to be rationale, but there's no fucking way Miles or Meyer are coming based simply on the logisitics and dates. Michigan won't wait until January 8 for Miles and we're playing Meyer's team in the bowl game for shit's sake. Christ, if spicy BM can't get his blackberry to work on his sailboat, he sure the hell can't manage those logistics.
I believe Miles had pressure on him to the presser. A win gets them a BCS bowl and tons of extra money. Add to that the chance Miles might be losing his players emotionally, he had to do it. Think if they lose that game b/c of the idea Miles might be leaving, and he ends up staying, don't you think the players would be pissed he couldn't have been more affirmative with it? He got screwed, did the best he could, and now will hopefully win a NC.
I was looking at Brady Hoke today and realized that Stan Parrish was his OC. Didn't Lloyd fire that guy a couple of years ago?
Wong-Baker:
http://
www.mosbysdrugconsult.com...anslations.html
DCB, you logical asshole. Can't you let me dream?
REPORT: Michigan contacts Ball State coach Hoke about coaching job
December 3, 2007
By DOUG ZALESKI
GANNETT NEWSPAPERS
MUNCIE -- At least two schools from BCS conferences -- including Michigan --
have shown preliminary interest in Ball State football coach Brady Hoke about
their head coaching jobs.
Hoke confirmed to The (Muncie, Ind.) Star Press during the weekend that his
name has been advanced about coaching vacancies at the University of Michigan
and Washington State University.
"It's that time of year," Hoke said about speculation on openings.
Eleven schools currently have head coach openings.
Lloyd Carr, who retired last month after 13 seasons as Michigan's coach,
recommended Hoke as a candidate to be his successor.
Michigan athletic director Bill Martin contacted Hoke early last week to
discuss the job with him.
Bill Doba, who resigned last month after five seasons as coach at Washington
State, recommended Hoke for the Cougars' position. Doba, like Hoke, is a
Ball State graduate.
Hoke said he has not yet received formal contact from Washington State's
athletic administration about the opening.
Hoke led a rejuvenation of the Ball State program this season. He coached
the Cardinals to a share of the Mid-American Conference West Division
championship, and helped them earn their first bowl bid in 11 years with a 7-5
overall
record that was the school's best since 1996.
Ball State on Saturday was selected to play Rutgers on Jan. 5 in the
International Bowl in Toronto.
"I think Brady has done a nice job here," Ball State athletic director Tom
Collins said. "He's an outstanding recruiter, he's a very good teacher, and he
gets along well with his student-athletes. He has all the ingredients to be
a head coach."
Hoke earned a salary of $156,000 this season. He is under contract with the
Cardinals through the 2009 season.
The success of the team this year might warrant another contract extension
for Hoke.
"After the season is over and the bowl game is finished, we'll sit down and
talk about things that need to be addressed," Collins said. "We want to do
the things to make sure the program is going forward, and Brady is a big part
of that."
Hoke has a 22-36 overall record in his five seasons at Ball State. His teams
are 14-9 against MAC schools the past three years.
~Todd
Is that supposed to be a newsflash?
Scroll down 3 posts.
22-36. Are you fucking kidding me.
I now find myself not reading Brian's content and going straight to the comments chat room.
Please. Stop posting about Brady Hoke.
Sorry, I just realized it was posted by a troll
Dear Washington State:
Please hire Brady Hoke immediately.
I promise he will lead your program to glory and innumerable Pac-10 championships!
22-36? hell, we might as well hire Ty Willingham.
DCB,
He's a troll!
maybe we'll get bill doba?
Bill: I just realized that. I'm so bleary=eyed from following this thread all day that I can't tell a douchebag from a real poster. Plus, the way things have been playing out, I kind of sort of expect a Brady Hoke announcement this week, with him serving as "co-head coach" with Lloyd during the bowl game.
Bill, go crawl back in your cave.
sorry about the Hoke post, my question was more about Stan Parrish as his OC. If he came back we would definitely be retreading the Carr era
Miles: An LSU Man
[6 Comment(s)]
By Chris McDonald
Senior Writer
The search for LSU’s next head football coach ended abruptly on Saturday. Little did anyone know that the next coach would be Les Miles himself.
Among speculation and rumors all week about Miles taking the head coaching job at his alma mater Michigan, the spotlight was clearly not where it should have been focused: on the fact LSU was playing for the SEC Championship.
But after ESPN reported early Saturday morning that Miles would be in Ann Arbor, Mich. on Monday to announce his decision to accept the Michigan job, Miles had no choice but to hold an impromptu press conference hours before the SEC Championship to dispel those rumors.
“I’m the head coach at LSU,” Miles said in his press conference. “I will be the head coach at LSU. I have no interest in talking to anybody else. I’ve got a championship game to play, and I am excited about the opportunity of my damn strong football team to play in it.”
But fans and the media were still skeptical about whether or not Miles would return to LSU because he had not specifically said he would be at LSU next season. But on the field before the game, Coach Miles clarified his statement.
“I’m staying at LSU, this is a place I want to be,” Miles told LSU sports reporter Jordy Hultberg prior to kickoff. “This is a place my family is very comfortable. This school has everything. It has an opportunity at victory and competing at the highest level. I’m the head coach at LSU and I’m going to be the head coach at LSU.”
After Miles cleared the air about the coaching controversy, the Tigers responded on the field by defeating the Tennessee Volunteers 21-14 to win the Southeastern Conference for the first time under Miles’ tenure. The Tigers finished the season with a record of 11-2 and a record of 6-1 against ranked opponents.
“I love Michigan; I will always be a Michigan man,” Miles said in his postgame press conference. “I’d love to help them. But I’m not going there. It saddens me at times. I can’t be at two places. I’ve got a great place. I’m at home.”
Only hours after Miles and the Tigers sealed the victory and a minimum berth in a BCS bowl, the Tiger faithful waited anxiously to see if No. 1 Missouri and No. 2 West Virginia would fall that night. As fate would have it, both teams lost and the Tigers knew that they would still have a chance to play for the BCS National Championship.
On Sunday, the Tigers received enough points in the BCS formula to garner the number two spot in the rankings and received a bid to face Ohio State in the BCS National Championship on Jan. 7, 2008. The Tigers were long shots to make it to the title game after losing to Arkansas two weeks ago, but the craziness of the 2007 college football season proved to last to the very end.
So now as Tiger fans recover from what was one of the craziest weekends in LSU football history, they can settle down knowing that they have their coach
maybe we could hire that frank tv guy. that way when he talks to BM & MSC, he can be LC, but when he's on the sidelines or in front of a camera he can bet LM.
Hoke:
4-8
2-9
4-7
5-7
Sounds like a winner to me!
Along with Hoke, John L Smith and Ed Orgeron are on Washington State's shortlist. This is their punishment for unleashing Ryan Leaf on the world.
I will be back in an hour for a rally update U-M students. I picture this on the facebook event invite:
"From this day to the ending of the world, but we in it shall be remembered - We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, his day shall gentle his condition and gentlemen in Michigan now-a-bed shall think themselves accursed they were not here and hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks that fought with us upon Saint Miles' Day."
I like the idea of St. Miles' Day. 8/8/07
Aye, mateys, I tells ya, twas me and Bill Martin headin' oot for the high seas. Ukukukukukukuk!
Have fun with me pal, Brady Hoke!
http://graphics.boston.com/
bonza...097522_1822.gif
Ball State's Hoke talks with Michigan AD about coaching job
12/5/2007, 10:39 p.m. ET
The Associated Press
ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) — Ball State football coach Brady Hoke says he and Michigan athletic director Bill Martin have discussed the Wolverines' open coaching job, but says it wasn't a formal interview.
Hoke was an assistant to Michigan coach Lloyd Carr in 1995-2001. Carr announced Nov. 19 that he was retiring after 13 seasons.
"I did have a conversation with Bill a couple of weeks ago of substance about interest on both ends of it, but that's as far as it's gone," Hoke told The Ann Arbor News for a story on its Web site Wednesday.
Hoke said he also has had some contact with Washington State, where coach Bill Doba resigned at season's end. Hoke and Doba are Ball State alumni.
Others coaches whose names have been mentioned for the Michigan job include Wake Forest's Jim Grobe, California's Jeff Tedford, Missouri's Gary Pinkel and N.C. State's Tom O'Brien.
Rutgers coach Greg Schiano, widely rumored to be on Martin's list, said he is not talking to anyone about job openings.
Carr's final game comes New Year's Day, when Michigan (8-4) faces No. 9 Florida (9-3) in the Capital One Bowl in Orlando, Fla.
Carr is 121-40 for a .752 winning percentage, seventh among active coaches.
Copyright 2007 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
© 2007 Michigan Live. All Rights Reserved.
jim grobe to arkansas!
blueman group - links will do just fine. thanks.
Holy crap. Took me like a friggin' hour to read this. And yes, R-Lew, my marriage is going down the tubes as this coaching search drags on.
Three things:
1.) Belichick-- woot! Kidding. That guy's a jagoff, what kid would want to play for him? Actually, he'd probably take a bunch of 1 star kids, mold them into a juggernaut, and beat OSU by 118... come on down, Bill!
2.) Guy that said this is a support group--- Amen, brother.
3.) R-Lew and Aaron--- don't a few things in here jive with that email I sent y'all? Not getting my hopes up, just saying.
I'll admit. For the first time since Carr's retirement, I'm legitimately worried. G*d, I hope Martin pulls this all together.
with grobe gone, we are now done to pinkel, hoke, and o'brien, b/c tedford ain't coming east. man, that is sad.
New stadium addition. Applachian State. The Lloyd Cooper era vs. tOSU. These are the things I keep reminded myself in the coaching search. Spicy BM HAS to make a splash, or A2 will burn, right? Please tell me I'm right.
12/8/07.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Jesus Christ guys. We are all fucking crazy. Urban Meyer now...come on...if its true then wow, but seriously probably not.
Les probably wont happen either, but believe me I am Les Miles fan #1. I want him here very badly. We really do need to show Les that he has the support of the enormous fan base we have. Along with that we need to make sure BM, MSC, LC, know how much we care about Les. Lets get this shit done.
This isn't over by a long shot. BM will do his best and I hope that will be sufficent and work.
Urban Meyer to UM??!!
This would shatter the historical rule that successful elite college HCs do not switch programs.
But could it happen?
Meyer is young (43) and cutting edge (like Bo was in ’69)
He’s an Ohio boy and coached in the MAC (like Bo)
Was an asst. at OSU (like Bo); understands the rivalry and can turn it back on the Bucks a la 2006 NC game
Respected and was interested in UM prior to getting his big gig (likes the “tradition”?)
Hates his AD (maybe)
Perhaps is a Midwest boy who really doesn’t like the whole southern attitude including SEC rah-rah stuff
Already won a NC and will be loaded with recruits and impossible expectations every year (if you think 9-3 at UM is unacceptable, try Fla.)
Already made his money ($3 mil per yr); doesn’t need more to be financially secure or prove himself
Maybe thinking about where he’d like to be for the next 20 years (seems to have no NFL ambitions) and knows that if you restore the glory at UM, you are set for life
Long shot, definitely, but possible if the stars are aligned. If it happens, BM is officially awarded status of God Emperor of Dune.
Miami (OH) ain't Florida. Or the other way around. You know what I'm saying.
Carr, Hoke Speak On Relationship; Game
Lloyd Carr & Brady Hoke By Josh Turel
GoBlueWolverine.com
Posted Nov 1, 2006
Michigan Head Coach Lloyd Carr and Ball State Head Coach Brady Hoke talk about each other, their relationship, and Saturday's game among other things.
After serving as defensive line coach and later associate head coach during his seven year tenure at the University of Michigan, Brady Hoke left after the 2002 season to accept the head coaching job at his alma mater, Ball State. At his press conference on Monday, Michigan Head Coach Lloyd Carr took time to share his thoughts on Hoke.
“Brady was hired here in 1995, and he's a tremendous guy that loves the game, “said Carr. “I think his players enjoyed him because he has a great enthusiasm. He's upbeat. He is always a positive guy. He did a great job here recruiting. I think he really opened the doors into California for us.”
Despite a tough few years at BSU, Carr still feels Hoke is on his way to building a strong MAC program.
“I think he understood when he went there it was not a job that was going to be done overnight. I think he’s done a great job, he’s built a foundation and that’s the first thing you have to do. His teams, when I look at them, they are fundamentally sound, they play hard and I think he is on his way and I think he‘ll be very successful.”
Much like his friend, mentor, and former boss, Hoke had nothing but good things to say about Carr as well.
"Coach Carr is a great man who I admire more than anybody in football,” said Hoke. “He is an outstanding football coach, but even more important he is a better man. We’ve talked about once a week, or once every two weeks about the progress of the season and those things. If we don’t talk directly, then there are phone messages. Lloyd (Carr) was a great mentor to me, a guy I have the utmost respect for as a football coach and as a person, so it’s a good relationship.”
Though the many might think the two would be excited to play one another, Carr indicated that it is something he doesn’t take pleasure in.
"As far as this game goes, I really was not excited about it,” said Carr. We played against Mike DeBord when was at Central (Michigan). I didn't enjoy it very much. And I just think it's one of those deals where I'd rather have played somebody else.”
Carr's apprehension to play this contest may not have been as great if Ball State wasn't so woefully overmatched. When the two teams step between the white lines, though, the personal feelings will be put aside.
“We have responsibilities and jobs to do, and certainly those come first," said Carr. "Your concentration is on doing the things that you can do to help your team be successful."
Coach Hoke shared those same sentiments. “This is Ball State playing Michigan," he said. "We had some great years up there and it’s a very special place to us, but we have a football game to prepare for against an awfull
Hoke, Pinkel, and O'Brien......man, I bet they are shaking in Columbus.
DCBlue:
Absolutely. It makes absolutely NO sense at all to negotiate the adidas deal, drop $300 million on the stadium renovation, and drop a ton on the facilities improvements only to tighten the purse strings when it comes to hiring a high quality head coach.
CC and Seven,
They are not shaking in Ypsilanti if that is the list.
In a fleshy prison I am buried above the ground.
Depression sets in on this wretched Wednesday. Cold weather. Gray skies. No coach. No beer. Visions of DeBord haunt like the cold painful winds of an early December night.
SIGN THE PETITION:
http://www.petitiononline.com/Le...u/
petition.html
From Mark Snyder's column:
• Is he waiting for Michigan to come around again? Countless former U-M players and fans would be ecstatic at the possibility. An enormous groundswell of support remains for Miles -- fans have flooded athletic director Bill Martin with their feelings -- but it's unclear how much, if any, that influences Martin or the U-M decision-makers. And there remains a strong anti-Miles camp.
*******
Good work on flooding Bill Martin guys! It's drawn some attention apparently.
Full link:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.d...0022/0/
SPORTS02
why can't that petition be at a site where you don't have to donate? or is that bs and you actually don't
Bill Martin is a fine sailor!
http://www.monacaron.com/images/...nic-
sinking.jpg
Wow. Where is my Xazax?? This place sucks.
Good evening folks....just got caught up on all the commentary....couple of things:
1. throughout the last week+ there have been bouts when I could not see or read the comments posts and subsequently could not post myself. Anyone else have those issues? Suggestions on how to overcome them as I am not much of a techie.
2. KF is not coming to UM.....not sure if its mentioned here, but he's staying at Iowa.....very loyal, KF is....he and BM met in NY, BM upped the offer, but KF said no this afternoon.
3. Hoke is a hoax....a leak to make him look better for other jobs..UM did speak to him, but it was not an interview....it was, at most, a chat, nothing more, and done to boost his credibility....total farce....we can stop talking about.....if he ends up the next coach, I will personally host a mgoblogheads tailgate party for the opener vs Utah.....of course, in the event this unlikliness happens, many of you probably wont be going to the game, eh?!?! lol
4. Greg Schiano. He's the guy. Book it. We'll be chopping wood next season.
Birdies are talking to me....i have unusual sources, but they're dead on and have a 1/2 step ahead during this whole "fiasco".....if KF was the guy, there would already have been an announcement....or at least an announcement of a press conference.....we're looking at Schiano right now....how far that goes, we'll see.
Would have posted this earlier, but could not because of the above tech issues. Recommence freaking out, by all means, dont let me stop you....lol
What about the guy at Grand Valley?
I just read on the free press site - Schiano is not even doing interviews.
You guys don't necessarily need to hire a college coach! There is a much larger pool of talent than just that!
CC and Seven:
That doesn't mean anything. Coaches have said this stuff as far back as I can remember, and it doesn't mean anything. They want to keep recruits and players and donors in line in case nothing happens in the end. But they're probably talking through intermediaries or something.
God, I can't wait for this to be over. My wife just called me a loser for staying on this blog so long.
First, I think Tedford might be be a possibility. The hippies in the trees that won't let them build new training facilites, the gigantic crack and fault line running through the football stadium, the troubles of recruiting Cal, and the shit he took in the SF Chronicle after the Stanford loss. If there is a year to get him this would be it.
Also, I am really bothered by the search. Either Marin is an idiot, or the "whole hiring committee (b/c they seem really pro-Miles from what I have read) and the we are interested in Miles thing" was a complete show. I don't have a problem being secretive, but it is wrong to mislead people and Miles. He was completely screwed on Sat. and if we were not interested, BM could have made an announcement saying we were not interested.
Finally, since when does integrity= hiring incompetent friends. I really like Lloyd and what he did for the program, but this Deboard and KF shit is a bit ridiculous. If integrity= hiring incompetent friends then the Bush admin. is model of integrity.
Red Berenson for AD
Hey guys, I just found out my teams going to something called the Orange Bowl. I don't like fruit very much, so I'm throwing my hat in the ring for the Michigan job!
Whomever we hire, I am sure the free press will not be breaking the story....we had two real candidates at the start,--y'all know the drill Les and KF--now we move on...Schiano is being contacted....we'll see how it goes from there....i wonder if the Grobe to Arky stuff lights a fire under this as UM had their eye on him as well, not sure how high on the list, but the interest is there...well according to the same bird, at least.
Samsoccer7- great link and article. At the end of that article is what I tend to agree with the most. The circle of in-the-know people will be very tight. You will have to be someone to get any information and that will most likely be very little.
We all need to relax and understand that we will probably be left in the dark for some time now. Unless Miles comes out and announces he's signing that contract and actually does then I have to believe he is still in the hunt. BM knows the search got all fucked up last weekend and I feel that he is not being swayed much by other opinions. He is out to hire the best coach available and to be honest it is LES MILES.
So, we will know eventually....most likely not tomorrow or the next day but somewhere between then and january 10th. Sounds like a DUH...but thats as much as anyone knows
Red would make a phenomenal AD. If only he could've NOT pissed on the library...
Michigan Student = Master of the Obvious. Also, I believe he called Bill Martin a "cagey fox" earlier.
When somebody here names their source, I'll believe it.
BILG & MDAN - 8:11 pm, 8:41 pm posts are the best on here. Thanks for sharing.
i'm now convinced that an overwhelming majority of the venom towards UM here is intentionally over the top, in the hopes of tricking the football gods into intervening. They will let Martin make some sort of out of nowhere, amazing hire that makes him look like a genius and leaves those who have bashed him so mercilessly embarassed and ashamed.
Genius move. It's the only possible explanation if Martin turns the tables and makes a home run type of hire.
oh and we could end this coachign search if we just do what i say.....ok heres my idea:
use the money to buy a shit load of electronic messengers. We will use those and the big screens at each end to have the fans pick from a pool of plays we will run each play.
For instance:
A. Zone run left
B. Deep pass to Manningham
C. Intentional sack
D. Play Action roll out pass to Tight End Butler
Defense would be:
A. Poor coverage and get burned deep
B. Lots of poor tackling
C. Get totally faked by the fake statue of liberty
D. All out blitz
The play with the most votes wins and we will run the play.
How about that guys?
I eat from a lot of food SOURCES!!
DCblue- no shit. that was the point. If you dont get that then i will say it again. NONE OF US KNOW SHIT! WE ARE ALL JUST GUESSING, THROWING OUT RUMORS, AND MAKING OUR HOPEFUL PROPHECIES AND THEORIES.
durrrrrrrrrr
Like him or not, Martin did not attain his present position by stupidity. He's working the process intelligently consistent with his perceived goals for the university. We'll know when everybody else knows and not until. Enjoy the snow; tray the Arb for me.
So, MichiganStudent, you're prior post of knowing the cagey fox was all bullshit?
Michigan Student = food. I'll eat him.
CarrOnAPopsicleStick- Thank you thank you thank you! That is the long and the short of it.
Ryan,
Yeah, I know sketchy w/ the source thing......but, I am not a reporter..not even a blogger..i am a commentator poster....lol....i could use I have a friend who knows someone line, but I wont......all I'll say is this guy passes along tidbits, i.e. injury updates, for those who might need to know for amusement purposes only....i learned from him the Saturday morning meltdown before here, although Brian was on this like flies on shit soon after, so he still gets big kudos in my book.
Oh, and he more than confirms the sailing story, also.
Dc- no no. I have met with and talked to Martin. Not recently, and definitly not about the coching search...much before this.
He is a very intelligent guy. I jsut think he is more of a secretive type, not wanting to deal with the public. It has its pros and cons, but i think its better off doing what he is doing in being private. Who knows whats going on. Until he proves he cannot hire anyone of any clout then i say he is doing the right thing.
On a side note, i hope this Les Miles shit is not over and that BM can get it back on track...
In a weird kind of way, you have to admire a guy who goes sailing in the middle of a crisis; he must have a serene confidence that all will be well in the end.
donger need food!
"Right, so the "sailing" rumor went from hilariously improbable to likely to confirmed. "
wow. how embarrassing.
Grew Up in A2:
You have got to be fucking kidding me. I can accept sailing. I can't except the treo/blackberry excuse. With that, I am out.
i ate all your good, good bye
@Tedford people
Can anyone explain to me why Tedford would be a way better hire than Kirk Ferentz? Cal went 6-6 with after being the number 2 team in the nation and their stars Desean Jackson and Justin Forsett took turns being MIA. Cal went 6-6 with NFL talent. Iowa went 6-6 with a qb who had like 3 completions against Sparty.
I'm not in love with the idea of Ferentz being the next coach but I'll take him anyday over Tedford.
@DCBlue
It all depends whether you think being "electronicsally unavailable" was an intended strategy (i.e., if BM knew he couldn't make the needed offer at that time, he chose to be "accidentally" out of touch to preserve future options).
Despite what crackberry addicts think, not every perceived crisis is an actual one.
@ hou blue
I think Stan Parrish resigned, he wasn't fired. The offense was good in 2000, but boy did it suck in '01. Still better than Da-Bored though.
Is anyone else relieved every time they come to the blog and find that there isn't an answer yet? I'm not even really hopeful anymore, just petrified of what the final result is going to be.
Urban Meyer - that's just funny, I don't care who you are.
Maybe Fred Meijer - he's from Grand Rapids and started a nice little grocery store.
Urban Meyer - hahahahha
What was the criteria for the job as laid out by our brilliant Ad again?
http://footballrumormill.com/scoop.php
I'm not sure if this has been posted but, Grobe to Arkansas.
Tedford is only good at developing quarterbacks. He'd make a great offensive co-ordiantor, not a great HC here.
I'm in ur base, killin' ur hopes
@beltway....amen brother amen
Ryan I agree with you on Tedford. Great offensive mind but not a great HC.
Don't Heisman QB winners suck in bowl games, we might get a break if Tebow wins and plays like Troy Smith did in the title game.
JHS:
Tedford's apparent loss of the Cal team following Oregon State is hugely troubling. Too reminiscent of the annual Sparty collapse.
Grew Up in A2:
Please come and tell my management that not every issue that arises is an "OMG! STOP THE PRESSES!" type of crisis.
Also can you imagine Tedford walking into some kid from Detroit's house bragging about how he developed Joey Harrington?
I sure as Hell don't want Tedford, I'm glad some other people agree with me.
Sigh...why don't you boys just drop anchor on this cruise for the pathetic and accept your coming decade of beatings.
I remember when Brian first posted the Tedford Profile in Heroism - Cal trolls came in here and said don't take him, he'll never come, etc. I wonder if they would like to get rid of him after a 6-6 year and a bell Helicopters Bowl birth.
RALLY? Do It!
I wish I was in town, I'd be all over it.
I would like for Michigan's next head coach to be Mike Ditka. You heard me. Ditka.