What on earth does it matter? Sure, it's tacky and vulgar and a real piece of kitsch but if people are more concerned about an icon than the reality of people's lives in the US, or anywhere else for that matter, then I'd say they have a serious problem and should relate to humanity and to things that are important a bit more.
You have a president who's a congenital liar and allround scoundrel, you have interference in a Middle Eastern country which is out of control and has killed more from the US than died on 9/11 (let alone perhaps over half a million Iraqis), you have a growing and poverty-stricken underclass who in many cases are living in third-world conditions, your economy is seriously adrift, your currency is plunging in value, and about the only thing you have left going for you as a country is the warmth and friendliness of the average citizen and people worry about the inappropriateness of someone's resting their heels on a flag!
...and we have a flag that stands for our values and deserves respect. It doesn't deserve to be used as a shoe rag.
Overstock should hang its head in shame selling such crap. No wonder it's going down the tubes.
I think Overstock put this crap up for sale as a twisted publicity stunt to keep its head above water. I'm not laughing.
"your economy is seriously adrift, your currency is plunging in value,"
This is a bit of an over-statement. As for the first bit, its just a loose use of language. What would be the contrary of "seriously adrift" anyway? Frivolously adrift? Seriously stationary?
As to the second part, the currency isn't "plunging in value" by any measure I know of lately, whether as measured against other currencies or against goods and services.
On October 16, you could buy a US dollar with, say, 0.54 of a pound sterling. By Nov. 1, you could get it for a couple of pence cheaper, 0.52. Last time I checked, the dollar was a bit dearer again, at 0.528.
This doesn't look like a "plunge" to me. It doesn't indicate anything "seriouysly adrift" about either of the two economies directly involved in the comparison, either. Currencies float against one another. That's been the case since the early 1970s and, frankly, I think it vastly preferable for all concerned than the Bretton Woods system that preceded it.
NotNasser-
You must work on Wall St, if you consider two weeks to be a meaningful amount of time. Over the past 5 years, the dollar is down sharply against most major currencies.
And the Dow Jones average is not the barometer for the overall economy either..
No, I don't work on Wall Street, which may be why I know what the word "plunge" means in English, and corrected Murdoch's use of it. Furthermore, he used it in the present tense. "Is plunging" ? Really? Then it should show up over the one month period that I surveyed.
Five years is a secular trend, not a "plunge" in the vernacular.
Also, I didn't mention the DJIA in this connection at all, because Murdoch didn't. I only mentioned the vagueness of some of his phrasing and the lack of any specified barometer at all. You're working with straw men.
Personally with all the fraud and corruption eminating around the world from the U.S. its flag is the least of our concerns.
I only hope those defrauded by Bancafe and Refco and Bawag in Guatemala and the Beltway crooks
who have aided and abetted them are brought to justice or at least Guatemalans realise the U.S. SEC and the Refco 'IPO' they brought to market ripped them off with worthless U.S. penny stocks.
What is the amount of money put into India's penny stock frauds or Austria's for that matter ? Guatemala does not issue worthless and fraudulent penny stocks.It is Chris WMDS Cox and his corrupt SEC that does that.
Obviously the U.S. is undisputed leader in fraudulent penny stocks.If this were not so Refco and particularly Bawag would promote Austrian penny stocks,which they don't.And Bellador Group would be promoting worthless Kuala Lumpur ands Dubai penny stocks which they don't.
And the Bush and Sabah penny stock frauds would be registered in Kuwait but they don't.The Bush-Sabah Securacom penny stock scam that guarded the WTC,Dulles Airport and Los Alamos were indeed incorporated in the U.S..Even Kuwait's Sabah royalty pull their penny stock scams off with U.S. 'securities'.And most of the victims of the Bush's and Sabah's are Americans I believe.
Too bad the lieing con artist Cox was not brought to justice in California for his scams there.Then without scum like Christopher Cox at the SEC we would all be better of.
Please resign Mr.Cox,please resign John Reed Stark,et.al.and allow some idealistic university students etc. fill your worthless or even criminal positions.
Nonetheless Patrick Byrne is a hypocrite and should have to answer for the DEATH THREATS HIS FOLLOWERS HAVE LOOSED ON THE INTERNET.But being a hypocrite is one of his better traits.
You'd think the senile politicians who have backed Byrne such as Utah's Senator Bobo Bennett would even cry out about that abuse of the flag but Bob Bennett uses the U.S. flag for toilet paper himself when he aids unending fraud and corruption in its name.
Just seen NotNasser's comments on my post. I'll accept that the use of the phrase "plunging in value" may have been extravagant but I'd say that it's steadily falling in value (as, indeed, C. Fisher has also pointed out).
As to "seriously adrift", that's exactly what it is. Since the US came off the gold standard in the early '70s, the gap between assets and liabilities has steadily widened and its indebtedness to the rest of the world is now huge.
This is hidden by the position of the US$ as the world's only reserve currency, the effect of which is that the US pays for foreign goods and services with money created at a small fraction of its notional worth while foreign countries and businesses who are obliged to pay in US$ buy those thoses are rates equivalent to their normal values.
There is, as I'm sure NotNasser knows, more US$ (both actual currency and accounting value) circulating outside the US than inside. This doesn't matter seriously if more money (US$) can be printed to meet demand but does matter enormously if the status of the $ as reserve currency shifts. The consolidation of the euro is one factor in this, the (longer term) industrial and economic growth of China and India, the two most populous countries in the world, is another. Iraq had already moved to euros for oil trading, Venezuela, Libya and Syria are all looking at doing the same, Iran has set up a euro-denominated bourse and there is strong pressure on OPEC and elsewhere.
If, for instance, the euro becomes comparable to the $ as an international reserve currency then whenever the US needs to buy euros the exact revers of the present situation will occur, namely that euros will need to be bought with real value, not paper money.
In short, the US is potentially in very serious financial trouble, something which Bush's ridiculous and costly (both in money and lives, let alone significantly increased danger) adventure in Iraq can only make worse. The falling value of the dollar - that is, an acknowledgement of the notional value and long term risk in other currencies - is a recognition of this.
I take no pleasure in this but it's something which people need to wake up to and fully understand and in that light my comments earlier are entirely accurate.
I'm glad that you now accept the "extravagant" nature of your original commentary. Having made that point, I won't press you.
I have to say, though, that the notion that US citizens ought not be offended by abuse of the flag because it distracts focus from such more important matters as the long-term rise of China and India strikes me as a tad silly. One can concern one's self with manners and decorum even if one knows that the sun will explode in a few million years and destroy the earth.
How does the particular item on Overstock that gave rise to our discussion contribute to an improvement of the competitive situation of the US vis-a-vis China?
I conceded that referring to the dollar "plunging" was perhaps extravagant but, as I'm sure you well know, implied that that was really a matter of degree and I certainly didn't withdraw or modify my wider comments about the US economy being seriously adrift but went on to explain my thinking. The long term value of the $ is dependent on traders' and others views and the state of the US economy doesn't really give them a lot of confidence.
So, for the avoidance of doubt, I was happy to modify one word. I stick firmly with the rest of what I said. It is, as I said, entirely accurate.
You have a different view of the sanctity of flags and similar icons to me. That's your prerogative. Of course there's room for concern simultaneously about a whole range of issues and attending to manners and decorum is indeed important. I just think getting worked up about what happens to a flag is, to use your phrase, just a tad silly.
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