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Um Chris, reading over this you don't at all address what nationalism can do for Unionism. Quite the contrary. The 'what can we do for you' question is crucial (and is not asked nearly enough by anyone here) but you haven't provided any answer. This is all about your problems with unionists, not what compromises your willing to make in your current position to make them happier.
Ciarán |
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09.12.05 - 4:06 pm | #
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I have identified the problems and asked Unionists to tell me what Republican can do.
Hoe do you expect a Republican to know what a Unionist wants?
Chris Gaskin |
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09.12.05 - 4:21 pm | #
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Chris,
on the parades issue it is either right for a sectarian organisation and its paramilitary associates to parade through Catholics areas and past Catholichomes or it is wrong.
The venomous bile and behaviour of those who were present on the Springfield road are clear indicators that we are not dealing with some benign old codgers club.
PatMcLarnon |
09.12.05 - 5:49 pm | #
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1)call off the dogs in the fake resident's associations and allow all parades to pass uncontested for a trial period of 12 Calendar months.
2) disarm.
3) Support the PSNI.
Madradin Ruad |
09.12.05 - 7:27 pm | #
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The civil service is considered unionist???
willow |
09.12.05 - 9:26 pm | #
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MR
1)call off the dogs in the fake resident's associations and allow all parades to pass uncontested for a trial period of 12 Calendar months.
The resident groups are not fake, whether you like it or not.
If the parades were allowed to pass uncontested for 12 months, what then?
Let's not forget that residents did that at Garvaghy road and we ended up with "the merry march" of Paisley and Trimble, Do people think nationalist’s and republicans are thick?
2) disarm.
That is being done at the moment, what about loyalist guns?
I don't care personally about decommissioning arms, more important to decommission mindsets.
3) Support the PSNI.
Not until the proper reforms
Willow
The civil service is considered unionist???
The upper echelons are
Chris Gaskin |
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09.12.05 - 10:06 pm | #
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The problem with civil service being considered unionist is that it has the biggest say in the economy of the north of ireland either through employment or through spending so its image of being unionist is one that would need to be shed for full equality to be seen
David |
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09.13.05 - 12:35 am | #
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Chris, sorry for only getting back to this now. You ask how "you expect a Republican to know what a Unionist wants?" Have you tried actually taking what they say seriously?
Of course Unionists are asking difficult questions of Republicans. They're asking Republicans to do things that Republicans don't want to do.
The key political question is indeed 'how can Republicans help?' What principles are you willing to sacrifice in the name of Unionism being more contented in NI? It's amazing how you find it easy to stick to reject what people bring to you - membership of the policing boards etc. But you do seem reluctant to suggest anything that you might find hard stomaching.
So, let's try these for size. How's about:
1. Republicans explicitly and repeatedly stating their recognition of the principle of consent in NI.
2. Republicans acknowledging that a United Ireland won't happen unless NI's Unionist population wants it. In the meanwhile, Republicans would be happy with a second choice: that is, not a UI but a NI characterised by justice and equality.
3. Republicans explicitly and unreservadly apologising for the violence of the last thirty years, without making reference to the responsibilities of other parties to the conflict who can do their own apologising if they so wish.
4. That Republicans acknowledge a restricted right to march, and suggest that some parades, shorn of paramilitarism, should be allowed, perhaps every second year, to march past Catholic homes.
I'm not suggesting these things because you might find them easy to stomach. On the contrary. They'd be hard to stomach but would go some way to assuaging Unionist fears (at least to the degree that Republicans can do that). If you think my suggestions are crap, why not start making offers of your own? Instead of asking how you can help, why not start offering help?
Ciarán |
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09.13.05 - 3:57 pm | #
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1. Republicans explicitly and repeatedly stating their recognition of the principle of consent in NI.
That is a key part of the GFA, Unionism knows that already.
republicans acknowledging that a United Ireland won't happen unless NI's Unionist population wants it
That would be a lie, the GFA states the majority of the 6 counties not a majority of Unionism.
A UI could be obtained by only 20% Unionist approval.
republicans explicitly and unreservadly apologising for the violence of the last thirty years, without making reference to the responsibilities of other parties to the conflict who can do their own apologising if they so wish.
That has already been done
at Republicans acknowledge a restricted right to march
I have already said that on this blog
perhaps every second year, to march past Catholic homes
Should we not be asking them why they want to do that. Unionist attitude to the whole issue of marching is hypocritical. They demand to march through Catholic ares yet when a republican march wanted to go through Ballymena they were up in arms.
I can't abide hypocricy
Chris Gaskin |
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09.13.05 - 4:15 pm | #
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Should we not be asking them why they want to do that. Unionist attitude to the whole issue of marching is hypocritical. They demand to march through Catholic ares yet when a republican march wanted to go through Ballymena they were up in arms.
On everything else, fair enough, although there's nothing like saying these things again and again and again. On this, I think we both have a fair idea why they want to this, but that's not the point. As sort of happens in Derry, one key to emasculating the offensive element in parading is to simply allow it to happen.
Still, thanks for your answers. It really is a thought-provoking question.
Ciarán |
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09.13.05 - 4:38 pm | #
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Chris Gaskin
The upper echelons are
By whom, and on what basis, and why did you not say "upper echelons" (a tiny proportion) rather than make a sweeping statement about the whole service?
willow |
09.13.05 - 5:59 pm | #
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"upper echelons"
They make the real decisions
Chris Gaskin |
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09.13.05 - 6:03 pm | #
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Ciaran,
[i]2. Republicans acknowledging that a United Ireland won't happen unless NI's Unionist population wants it. In the meanwhile, Republicans would be happy with a second choice: that is, not a UI but a NI characterised by justice and equality.[/quote]
Wouldn't you think that a NI characterised by justice and equality is a right, and not a bargaining chip? Furthermore, how do you define Unionist? Doesn't it mean some one who wishes to maintain the union between Great Britain and Northern Ireland? And if they consented to a UI, wouldn't that automatically make them nationalist?
I think that a simple majority would be the fairest way to decide. Especially since there is no principle that in order for a union to be maintained with Great Britain that the nationalist community ought to give their consent.
Aaron D |
09.13.05 - 8:12 pm | #
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Ugh, I should really aim for consistency when it comes to using code. 
Aaron D |
09.13.05 - 8:13 pm | #
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Chris Gaskin
The upper echelons are
By whom, and on what basis, and why did you not say "upper echelons" (a tiny proportion) rather than make a sweeping statement about the whole service?
willow |
09.13.05 - 9:54 pm | #
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The resident groups are not fake, whether you like it or not.
Brendan McKenna isn't a resident 
Madradin Ruad |
09.14.05 - 1:43 am | #
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If the parades were allowed to pass uncontested for 12 months, what then?
If - as I expect would happen - the loyalist riff-raff and hangers-on disappear like snow off a ditch because there isn't any trouble then discussions could begin in an atmosphere conducive to progress.
Madradin Ruad |
09.14.05 - 1:45 am | #
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hipockrasy/hypocrisy/hipocracy/
hyppocrassy etc is definitely one of the most mispelt words in all the blogs on all the net.
P Ring |
09.14.05 - 10:50 pm | #
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