Well said, Chris. Pretty much sums up how I feel about it too.
Good post.
Killing a few off-duty Army engineers getting pizza (and shooting the pizza delivery guys) isn't something I'd be very proud of if I were the folks who did this. It's sad that there are folks who think that a united Ireland will be won that way at this stage in the game. I believe 100% that there is no excuse right now to engage in anything other than political action, and it sounds like the folks who support stuff like this are few and far between.
Didn't you used to goad them by calling them bar stool republicans? Is this not them getting of their bar stools? Murder is murder Chris, you either condemn it or you support it, it can never be justified.
'Murder is murder Chris, you either condemn it or you support it, it can never be justified.'
He won't condemn it, Michael. For Northern Ireland has become a political sewer and the republican movement, in all its guises, is the shite that makes it so.
PIRA, RIRA, CIRA. Same scum, different first letter.
Michael
I did call them barstool Republicans, it seems some of them have discovered the door.
Do you believe that every person killed by the British army is murder?
I can turn it back on you
Murder is murder Michael, you either condemn it or you support it, it can never be justified.
McCann
Crawl back under your rock
'Crawl back under your rock.'
Why? Are you desperate for company you sick, sad, scumbag?
McCann got his comments removed from ATW yesterday, when he was gloating over pissing on dead republicans.
Just a naughty boy eh endy-pandy !
'McCann got his comments removed from ATW yesterday, when he was gloating over pissing on dead republicans.'
No I didn't.
Let's hope HM Armed Forces dispense true and absolute justice on the republican community that harbours this filth.
The state has a monolopy on force. When citizens take upon themselves to challenge that and lose their lives as a consequence, it is not murder. That is if the death was within the rules of engagement.
So no, you can't turn it back on me.
"Let's hope HM Armed Forces dispense true and absolute justice on the republican community that harbours this filth"
The same armed forces you were too gutless to join when the IRA were raging their war.
You are pathetic!
I can quite clearly Michael
Republicans do not accept that the British state has any right to be in this country.
yes they were removed.
MCcann you've become an embarrassment to David Vance, that filthy mouth of yours keeps getting you into trouble.
That and your obsession with faeces.
Are you a scat addict?
Dya like ladies to crap on you, or just boys?
You have to laugh at McCann. It must really grate that his proud army could not defeat the IRA!
Of course it does JG and any British Army person you come across or hear on TV have respect for the IRA. They may hate them but they respect them as a worthy war adversary.
Republicans can have that thought. However no matter that, the individuals have the right to life and have done nothing to lessen that, certainly not by any civilians who take up illegal arms.
So murder is murder. Armed strugle is unlawful. These facts are self evident.
Of course it does JG and any British Army person you come across or hear on TV have respect for the IRA. They may hate them but they respect them as a worthy war adversary.
Indeed. I've seen that more times than I could count.
The even more laughable fact is that McCann didn't have the balls to join the Army and take his fight to the IRA. He just spews perverted garbage on the internet... that's not very brave Andy! 
You know what's most pathetic about this whole thing? Its hearing Adams and McGuinness choke and splutter out their condemnations, of how terrible and unacceptable the shooting of two BRITISH SOLDIERS was, how those responsible must be caught by their beloved colonial militia.
Of course none of this is surprising. Adams and McGuinness know that they have to say such things unless they lose their precious jobs doing the Britishers' dirty work for them, and they could never allow that to happen...
By the way, Gaskin, if you support the Adams Faction's present "strategy", then you have little choice, if you don't want to be a hypocrite, to condemn what happened in the strongest possible terms. I just thought I should remind you of that.
Chris,
I have to say I was angry at the murders last night.
Despite what I think about the British Army being in Ireland (why are they still here at all?), they were murdered in cold blood while ordering a pizza.
The reason they lost their lives was because the murderers have no support and want to reignite the bloody strife of the past.
I thought Martin McGuinness' condemnation was clever and honest and let's hope the DUP resist the temptation to use the soldiers' deaths for their own sectarian ends.
I see little that was clever or honest in McGuinness' words, he said them because he had to say them. As for the DUP, you can be sure that they will milk this for everything it is worth. And why wouldn't they?
Shane it was a cowardly attack, and it puts republicanism back by another generation.
Counter-productive in the extreme!
The strategic idea underlying this attack, I take it, was to cause a British government military escalation in the 6 counties while embarrasing Adams and increasing the tension behind the odd situation of SF defending the status quo, distancing itself from the PIRA (i.e. Adams wasn't in the PIRA and anyone who says he was is calling him a criminal (!!!)), and calling on republicans to support the British state hunt down the folks behind this attack. So far the British state has reacted intelligently to this attack and hasn't played into the desire of the attackers to bring British soldiers back into the streets. But it will be exceedingly interesting to see how this plays out vis-a-vis SF and Adams.
I really doubt this will spark the fire that finally leads to a united Ireland, and instead think this was a pretty sad thing to do: killing a couple of non-combat soldiers who wanted to eat a fucking pizza on a Saturday night. I mean, dude.
"Shane it was a cowardly attack, and it puts republicanism back by another generation.
Counter-productive in the extreme!"
Well, given that the "strategy" of Adams and McGuinness has made a United Ireland as likely within this century as Osama bin Laden converting to Christianity, I'd say the effect of this attack is rather irrelevant.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspa...8/
breaking9.htm
"Ms Breen said the caller described the pizza staff as 'collaborating with British rule' by serving British soldiers. He promised more details of the operation in coming days."
...
"Indeed the attack took place at a ime when two other young men, two civilians, who were delivering pizzas to the Massereene Barracks stopped, and it is clear from what we know at this stage that the terrorists not only wanted to kill soldiers who were there last night, but also to try to kill those two pizza delivery men."
************
As a general rule, when your military operation purposely targets pizza delivery guys, this is a pretty good sign that you are a faggot.
People who don't know what the word "collaborator" really means just shouldn't use it.
"I'd say the effect of this attack is rather irrelevant".
exactly it was pointless cowardly murder by sad arseholes, with no hope of uniting Ireland.
NCM easy on the faggots, no need to go there a chara.
Putting these killings aside for a moment, does everyone think that everything is just fine and dandy for Republicanism at the moment? I know I most certainly do not, and I think a growing number of Republicans are of the same opinion, which will be significant if this attack turns out to be more than a one-off.
P.S. Let's not get too high and mighty about this. We all know that the Provos did stuff like this during the Troubles, but we seem not to condemn them for it.
"NCM easy on the faggots, no need to go there a chara."
...
Just to be clear, I meant the word "faggot" not as a slur on gays, who are fine by my book. Don't you guys in the occupied 6 counties watch Southpark? Anyway, if "faggot" is too offensive in today's world, please substitute "cunt."
An audacious and utterly ruthless attack. Whatever my personal feelings you have to give the perpatrators some credit for seemingly carrying the OP out right under the noses of brit intelligence, and managing thus far to evade capture, quite astonishing really
Yes, astonishing and quite suspect
Michael Shilliday, it is beneath you to argue that the state (any state) can claim a monopoly on the use of violence in its territories without reference to the states legitimacy or its behaviour towards its citizens (or subjects, god help them). That was true from Petainist France through Apartheid South Africa and a thousand places in between (though would you have opposed the "terrorists" of the ANC had you had the chance?).
Feel free to argue that the six counties was a legitimate political construct or that any lack of legitimacy was not severe enough to morally justify taking up arms.
As for the recent attack on the British army barracks it does not seem to me to be justifiable on any level and I fear that it may be not just killing for killings sake but killing for the sake of more killing. Sad on many levels.
Of course if this was an attack in Basra or Afghanistan no one could object and I candidly ask ask the RIRA to continue their fight against imperialism abroad.
I'm not sure that this " Real IRA " has as few supporters as you say. I hope you are correct.
The vast majority of Irish people clearly reject this group, and this act, which is an effort to re-open the gates of hell.
--
What happened to " play the ball, not the man ". I'm no ally to Andrew, but some of the comments above cross any conceivable line of civility.
-- astonishing and quite suspect --
Don't share the suspicion that the British / police cheerfully gave those who killed the soldiers an escort to the hole they emerged from.
Nor to I think that this is a False Flag operation or any of the other things that seem to emerge from conspiracy theories.
These are very early days in the investigation.
Oh I see, in order to support the actions of the Armed Forces, you must have the courage to join?
By a similar token (though removing all references to courage) it must mean that the fat twat who controls this site, and is an apologist for murdering slime, must have been a member of that organisation.
JG (or FA to be more accurate)
My only regret is that the Army had its hands tied for 30 years in dealing with those who wish to destroy our country.
Living in a fantasy world of expectant 'unity' is all the IRA murderers have to show for 3 decades of butchery. And if their political offspring responsible for Saturday's atrocity last as long, that's all they'll have to show for their efforts as well.
@ Phantom:
I'm not sure that this " Real IRA " has as few supporters as you say. I hope you are correct.
But then, how on earth would you know?
What happened to " play the ball, not the man "
Doesn't apply to Andrew. He moved the goal posts a long time ago, he can live with the consequences.
Hey Andrew, don't you have a few arses to wipe?
Chris,
These guys posed no threat to Ireland or its people. There is no war. Ireland is at peace, and they were murdered in cold blood.
I admire your openness about "armed struggle", but I disagree. Even if physical force were able to unite Ireland, it will never unite the Irish people.
Irish unity is no longer about borders. It's about hearts and minds.
If opinion leaders in Sinn Féin don't denounce this murder squarely, support for dissidents may grow.
BU
Think of all the lives that have been saved in afganastan by removing these 2 international terrorist's. Were's ur poppy's gone home dead.
I talk to people who know things.
I guess the " play the ball " rule has been chucked as it applies to unpopular people.
I talk to people who know things.
*gansta voice* lol
I guess the " play the ball " rule has been chucked as it applies to unpopular people.
Describing McCann as "unpopular" is the understatement of the century, Ghost.
Andrew changed the parameters when he made perverted comments about a SF councillor who had died tragically.
Don't pity this guy. He is vicious scum, a thug.
I don't pity him.
I pity anyone who has to read some of this stuff.
Phantom,
Didn't you call McCann a "sullen thug" several times on ATW? Is that not 'playing the man'?
I did, and worse, but toned it down when the proprietor asked us to, and then found that keeping the ad hominem toned down was usually the best policy
I certainly never said to him or anyone else anything like hahaha's March 8 9:28pm
Yeah it is the best policy in fairness. It's not the norm here though, Andrew seems to bring it out in people. Funny that!
hahaha
2 soldier's are cowardly murdered, McCann accuses Chris of being a sick sad scumbag; and I pull him up on his use of language, which is invariably "excremental" in its tone, and phantom does a hissy, at language and manners.
You couldn't make it up
Tony where are you mon!
I'm starting to suspect that hahaha is Percy!
he's barred JG, but I suppose it does a little.
Yes he is! My suspicions are strong though!!
Habeas corpus ad deliberandum et recipiendum
I suppose calling scum 'scum' will always provoke a reaction.
I'll tellyou what 'thugs' are. They are people who riddle unarmed soldiers with sixty bullets and then continue firing on them as they lay on the floor.
Thugs are people who cannot unequivocally condemn or even identify real terrorists.
Now I'm leaving this website because to associate with such low-life contaminants is detrimental to one's state of hygiene.
Chris
"they were members of the British Army, a foreign army of occupation that has no place in Ireland."
"Republicans do not accept that the British state has any right to be in this country."
Did you ever actually even read the Good Friday Agreement??
"The participants endorse the commitment made by the British and Irish Governments that, in a new British–Irish Agreement replacing the Anglo–Irish Agreement, they will: (i) recognize the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the Union with Great Britain or a sovereign united Ireland;"
"the present wish of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to maintain the Union and, accordingly, that Northern Ireland’s status as part of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish; and that it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people; "
"[Draft clauses/Schedules for incorporation in British legislation]... It is hereby declared that Northern Ireland in its entirety remains part of the United Kingdom and shall not cease to be so without the consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland voting in a poll held for the purposes of this section in accordance with Schedule 1."
"The British Government will make progress towards the objective of as early a return as possible to normal security arrangements in Northern Ireland, consistent with the level of threat and with a published overall strategy, dealing with
i) the reduction of the numbers and role of the Armed Forces deployed in Northern Ireland to levels compatible with a normal peaceful society;"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_ne...and/
7933990.stm
"Of course it does JG and any British Army person you come across or hear on TV have respect for the IRA. They may hate them but they respect them as a worthy war adversary."
You are seruously supposed to be an educated lawyer?
The Republican mililtary effort, such as it was, was essentially shown to be a paper tiger around the time of the Hunger Strikes.
By the 1990s they were a beaten docket, riddled with spies and informers. Only parts of Tyrone and Armagh remained active. Belfast by all accounts was so so corrupted by informers that the police could tell what the few remaining Republicans were having for breakfast.
In this light it is little short of lunacy for the Gaskin and co to delude itself that the struggle was somehow a victory or a "draw".
The IRA campaign was pretty much floundering outisde of south armagh , and even that was being badly squeezed , reduced to mostly snipes and mortars. The Caraher sniper team was caught and arrested by the SAS and would have been killed on the spot if they hadn't have been ordered not to.
Gerry Adams and Martin Mcguiness having appointed British agents to look after its internal security and other British agents to act as say liason officers with the middle east , selecting volunteers for the england campaign etc determined that the military campign would be ineffectual whilst their political alternative equally so.
To call you a clown would be a great insult to clowns.
"they were members of the British Army, a foreign army of occupation that has no place in Ireland."
Here's a newsflash for you lawyer boy.
In 1998 your party signed a thing caled the Good Friday Agreement that basically solidified Britain's territorial claim to Northern Ireland.
The Republic removed articles 2 & 3 from their consistitution thereby surrendering their claim to the North.
Northern Ireland is British territory. Your party sits in a British parliment and supports a British police force. The British army are not occupying anything and thanks to the actions of southern government and Mr. Adams, they most certainly are not foreign.
Smarten up.
I disagree with your politics. Maybe I will pay you a visit and kill / maim you your wife and kids if you have any. You wont mind will you.
If your going to threaten people, use a moniker of your own, pillock.
This thread aint' big enough for two Observers!
Correct, Julius.
chris are you sure your not an MI5 asset
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