“Had" is past, not present!
I refers only to a subset of those suspected of invovement
”Amongst those involved were people who had in various ways been associated with the PIRA” (my emphasis). So the IMC leaves open the possibility that others involved are still members of PIRA.
This is confirmed later on:
”The fact that some local members or former members or associates of the organisation were involved in the incident does not in our view justify attributing it to PIRA” (my emphasis).
If IRA members can murder in their spare time without besmirching the IRA’s ‘honour’, then I expect to hear no more claims about the UDR being a terrorist force just because some of its servicemen acted outside the law of the land to commit equally revolting crimes as heinous as the murder of this young man.
Lets see Harry Potter and Mc Alister apologise unreservedly to the republican movement for the unfounded and simply untrue allegations they made against them. They saw scope for persobnal gain in supporting the campaign and attributing blame to republicans. Their criminalisation ploicy has failed, and following the IMC ruling has been exposed as innuendo and the personal vendetta that the campaign was. Furthermore maybe now Jim can use his influence on getting the people who killed Keith Rodgers, as there is no doubt as to their identity, to come forward with info on his murder. The republican movement tried to use whatever influence they had to get people with info on Quinn murder to come forward, but ultimately as the murderers were not in the movements ranks this was futile. Furthermore lets also see Harry Potter refuse to Connor Murphy for the personal grudge campaign he pursued against him. Connor Murphy has been vindicated by the IMC and Paul Quinns criminal activities have now been accepted. Lets see what Dominic has to say about this!
”Amongst those involved were people who had in various ways been associated with the PIRA” (my emphasis). So the IMC leaves open the possibility that others involved are still members of PIRA."
No it does not, your emphasis failed to include the phrase "who had in various ways been associated"
Not only does that refer to the past tense it also does not include IRA members, it says accociates.
Different beast all together and would include nearly man, women and child in South Armagh.
"The fact that some local members or former members or associates of the organisation were involved in the incident does not in our view justify attributing it to PIRA” (my emphasis)."
Yet again your emphasis fails because you do not include the rest of that sentence which includes "former members or associates".
"If IRA members can murder in their spare time without besmirching the IRA’s ‘honour’"
They can't and I never said they could.
I would have thought people would have been pleased that the IMC have, at least to some degree, clarified the issue.
Hopefully those showing such a great interest in this murder were doing so out of genuine concern for the family'
It would be a great pity if their overriding concern was Provo bashing rather than justice.
There is a cat fight on Slugger as "justice seekers" twist and turn to try to muddy the reasonably clear statement from the IMC.
I pity the family as the political agenda of their supporters becomes more and more exposed and their lack of any real interest in justice becomes more apparent.
It seems strange that anyone would use an IMC report to support their case. These politically inspired reports have had a history of factual innacuracies and have been condemned on many occaisions by Sinn Fein and others because of this. Nice to see you have so much faith in an unaccountable quango who take political licence with the facts.
Can't speak for Chris, Reggie, but I have little time for the IMC.
However, many of those most vocal in the Quinn campaign apparently have a lot of time for the IMC.
Their reaction to this report is already proving interesting.
I suppose this report must rank up there with the best of British diplomatic efforts in "creative ambiguity".
There's just enough in the report for both sides to claim victory.
Quite.
http://elblogador.blogspot.com/2...s-
analysis.html
The poor old Stoops all that effort and piss and wind to exploit this situation for electoral gain and all they do is form an alliance with a cotorie of fuel smugglers and hoods.
Well done Dominic, next they'll be putting you in charge of the next Stooper assault on West Tyrone. About as inspiational as a slug.
That's a bit insulting to slugs Pat
Anyone with an interest in this story should continue to look at the
Quinn Support or "Justice for Paul" website.
On May the first, they said the following, which should be read carefully:
“Contrary to BBC headlines, the IMC has not shifted position on Provo involvement in Paul’s murder – far from it. They have not attributed the murder to the organisation as it was not a ‘corporate action’ sanctioned by the Army Council, but that is a political technicality – the IMC members know precisely who murdered Paul and precisely why.
The family and the Support Group always knew that this murder was indeed local and even personal The whole issue of Army Council sanction is a total red herring because it never had any role in giving the green light to specific actions.
The real issue is the level at which the beating was sanctioned locally. There are strong grounds for believing it went to the highest level in South Armagh and has therefore corrupted and tainted the whole South Armagh Command and all its constituent units. This is the vital point, more important even than whether all those involved in the killing were actually members of the Provisional IRA at the time. All of them enjoyed the protection of that organisation before, during and after the killing, all of them had access to its experience, expertise and forensic clean-up skills. It is now quite clear that the Garda investigation is focused on the access of local people to the Command infrastructure. We not that the Gardai have gone to the quite extraordinary length of refuting a planted story about a criminal gang being responsible for the murder, making it clear that they are not investigating any gang or individual criminals. That leaves just the Provos.
The IMC has clearly identified the key to the murder, which is the lack of deference and respect shown to self-appointed heroes by young people in South Armagh. The gang that battered Paul to death told him: ‘Now you know who is boss around here’. These were the people the IMC identifies as enjoying considerable local influence by membership of the Provos and expecting to be able to carry on criminal activities without interference and indeed to be admired for it. Paul would not bend the knee so they killed him.
The IMC points out that the killing was contrary to the interests of the Provisional IRA and Sinn Fein. Indeed it was, but the negative impact has been greatly increased by their actions since the murder. Sinn Fein in general and Conor Murphy in particular attacked the victim and his family before his body was cold.”
Paul Quinn’s parents, Stephen and Briege, believe that the IMC statement vindicates their claim that Paul was murdered by the sth Armagh Provos and call on the leadership of that movement to isolate the murderers in their ranks, “the ones rejecting instruction” to quote the IMC. And the say that “real peace in this area cannot exist while these murd
to finish the slightly truncated message:
And the say that “real peace in this area cannot exist while these murderers walk our streets and roads.”
The Phantom:
What are you dithering on about? The single over riding message from the IMC is that the IRA did not kill Paul Quinn ie "the incident does not in our view justify attributing it to PIRA." This is as clear as day light. Does that argue the contrary are clutching to straws in a vain and personal vendetta against the republican movement. These are the same people that jumped on the early comments of a member of the IMc! Furthermore they are very silent on the fact that the IMC confirmed that Paul Quinn was involved in criminal activity. Perhaps Dominic Bradley and Jim Mc Alister et al would like to comment on this? After all they had quite a lot to say for themselves whenever SF first raised the issue!
At the risk of being one of those accused of smearing the victim I thought that the refusal of Alderdice to answer any questions on whether Paul Quinn was involved in fuel smuggling was very telling. He could have said no he wasn't and that they had established that, but he didn't.
Even if he was it does in no way take away from the fact that the people who killed him should be serving a life sentence. However and alternative reason to one currently accepted as fact is that he was very much involved in smuggling and that he was responsible for the destruction of a large cargo of smuggled oil at Moira. These dealers like other dealers (drugs) usually take punitive action against those who mess up their consignments.
I also noted that the BBC in their reporting of IMC report, Vincent Kearney stated that Quinn was at the farmyard to drive another load of smuggled diesel, at odds with the line that he and his associates were there simple to clean up the farmyard.
Nothing is at all clear about this case and the fact that some who have attached themselves to the campaign insist on spinning certain yarns does the quest for justice no good at all.
Julius
As I said...
Sorry, Obs, as you said what?
Many of those "supporters" of the Quinn family are simply following a political agenda.
On Slugger and the site you mentioned obfuscation reigns supreme in the aftermath of the IMC report.
It is reminiscent of the scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian when the crowd attempt to interpret the reason the eponymous hero left his sandal behind.
I've read the report.
It's as clear as these things generally are.
People are misquoting it, changing key words like "or" to "and" in order to further their political agenda and support their own prejudices.
Not a lot of evidence of a search for justice.
I hope the perpetrators of this murder are caught and convicted.
That process isn't helped by people who know less than the cops shouting "It was themmens what done it." based on the assumption that their political enemies are the fountain of all evil.
I hope the perpetrators of this murder are caught and convicted.
So do I.
But should we believe anything the IMC reports?
Should we believe anything?
Very philosophical today, Obs!
The IMC wax lyrical about this and that and their "findings" are not based on hard evidence. Therefore I don't pay them much notice.
Neither do I, but many of the people who are saying they are wrong/misguided/engaged in a cover up/misunderstood, etc, have always sworn by their pronouncements when they said rude things about Republicans.
Too many political agendas, not enough interest in catching the perps.
Yep, too many political agendas from all quarters methinks.
why not admit that on this SF website, as on another website, that no other pov will be admitted and at the very least, opposing points of view will be threatened with having their employers advised that their identity will be revealed and their will be prosecuted?
This is what youve done.
"why not admit that on this SF website"
This is not a SF site, this is my site!
"no other pov will be admitted"
Hogwash! Lots of other POV are allowed on this website.
People who make threats against me however would need to make sure that their rear is covered.
Your's is not!
Ná nocht d'fhiacla go bhféadair an greim do bhreith!
Granted a mixed bag comment on this site but for the various republicans on here of all shades I find it bewildering that anyone would give the slightest credibility to anything produced by the IMC.
On the second point of who killed Paul Quin obviously the only people who know for certain are those responsible. What the issue seems to be boiling down to is their actual "status" at the time of the murder. For me they brutally tortured a young man and gave him and his family a horrific death. There only "status" is scumbag.
"Yep, too many political agendas from all quarters methinks."
So many people seem to know so much (including the IMC). Tell the cops who did it and how you know ("I'm trying to take votes off them" isn't going to cut it). If they passed all the information they apparently have, to the cops, then even the PSNI would be able to solve this one.
Why don't they just do that and stop trying to convince people that the perps were current or former Provos/smokers/Catholics/South Armagh residents/footballers/whatever takes your fancy.
All will become clear in the court case.
Hopefully. I would like to see these people caught.
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