FF were amusing in their response to Flannery - Considering Dermot Ahern discussed bringing SF into government in Pctober 2004
"I am involved with the Republican struggle in order to advance Republican objectives and if they can be furthered by going into government with Fine Gael then I would hold my nose and support Sinn Féin TD's walking into the Dáil and voting Enda Kenny as Taoiseach".
Furthering republicanism and furthering Sinn Feins desire for power are two very different ambitions. I've no doubt Sinn Fein would say anything and jump into bed with anyone to be part of a 26 county government outside of this ambition it is extremely difficult to see what politically Sinn Fein stand for.The revelations on the 1981 hunger strikes are going to demolish this leaderships credentials among republicans and it shows just how far this leadership would go to further the agenda of Sinn Fein.
Politically its extremely difficult to identify what Sinn Fein stand for. I say identify because outside of the usual platitudes no policies exist and their seems absolutely no desire to discuss them. When canvassed last month I had a coversation with two party workers. They couldn't tell me why they supported Sinn Fein let alone put up a convincing case for my vote.
I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.
Time Sinn Fein got back to basics and started representing the working class.
I think certainly the working classes need a voice these days - as to whether or not SF returning to their basics would be a good idea or not, not convinced.
I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. - Observer (not sure if it's the real Observer).
Hear hear. If SF do as Chris wishes (nose held or otherwise) they will go the way of the PDs and the Greens, and they'll deserve it just as richly.
Wotcher Julius
Another SF defection with interesting comments
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspa.../
breaking54.htm
Just read it, Ivan.
“The majority of the people within the party are content, that’s what made me leave,”
SF are saying they want a 'broad left alliance' while not ruling out going into government with FG!
They must think people are daft.
Lads, lads
Control yourselves!
I am not advocating government with Fine Gael, just not ruling it out 100%
I do, and have called for 100 times, believe in a broad left wing, progressive alliance in Irish politics.
That said I am not involved in Republican politics for ideological purity.
If I was prepared to plump for ideological purity as opposed to advancement of key objectives id be a member of RSF or one of the other rag tag bag of reprobates.
This is also not party policy, just my view. Observer is also a member and 100% opposed, such is the wonder of Sinn Féin that people can disagree and still be comrades.
I don't believe that a FG/SF govt is on the cards because I can't see a programme for Govt being agreed.
If however such a senario was possible and a left wing govt was not on the cards then I would consider it.
The ends justify the means in my opinion.
If you put the national question to one side and the "us and them" sectarianism, and ask what is Sinn Fein politically its pretty hard to give a coherent answer. You can argue that Sinn Fein takes part in the practice and profession of political affairs without espousing any type of meaningful political principles and opinions. Brand Sinn Fein isn't gathering anymore political shelf space and a marketing strategy based solely on packaging is failing.
Chris writes
"It's my belief that we should place ourselves left of centre in order to tackle the labour vote while leaving us open to attracting the Fianna Fail Republican vote."
I rest my case without a hint of conviction, without belief and without the earth and dirt beneath the nails, he recommends that Sinn Fein change the record to get a few more of the plebs off their feet. This is the reason why a Mary Lou should always loose to a Joe Higgins, he's real, he believes in something and is credible and proof for myself that this party will never have my vote.
Same logic as the Greens, Chris. They said they could push through the 'green agenda' with only a handfull of TDs.
Perhaps there's an arguement for Labour going in with one of the big two, although I would completely oppose it. But at least they would be a big bloc within government. Smaller parties get devoured and you know it!
This is the reason why a Mary Lou should always loose to a Joe Higgins, he's real, he believes in something and is credible
Agree totally. Mary Lou McDonald is a twit. Why she has ever been a candidate for anything beats me.
Just off the top of my head; Daithí Doolan, Christy Burke, and Killian Forde all would have been far, far better candidates.
I know Chris is only giving his own views. Whats interesting about them in isolation is the contempt he unwittingly betrays for the voters. In his analysis the votes of the people are simply to be used as Sinn Fein want a party which effectively represent nothing in terms of policy are to be given the votes of the people so they can use them to get into power. Is that seriously good enough from a political party, is that the extent of the contract between the voters and the party Chris, blind trust in the ever changing strategy of a political leadership?
I'm not talking about using voters or power before policy.
I am opposed to power just for the sake of it. My only interest in power is getting our policies implemented.
In my election review I called for more concise and developed policies.
I also said the only time I would consider a coalition with Fine Gael would be under an agreed programme for government.
That programme for govt would have to include our policies.
That is the whole point of elected politics, getting your agenda implemented.
Wind your neck in!
Chris one day you'll realise that your support for Sinn Fein has simply been handed down a bit like Catholicism.
Sometime between now and the time you really accept that your going to die, which is usually accompanied by mild panic attacks and bouts of insomnia and having a family and kids, your zeal for the party will have waned.
If you have principles and beliefs however they will remain undiminished. Maybe then you'll be able to engage in a meaningful political discourse, without every thought and aspiration being shaped and inhibited by the political schemata embedded in your consciousness.
Sorry to disapoint you reggie but my Republicanism was never handled down to me like my Catholicism. Even through I come from a somewhat Republican family politics was never discussed in our household. The reason for this was that I was born in 1984 and my mother had a brother who spent time in the Kesh. As it was quite a bitter time post Hunger Strikes my mother did not want any of her sons ending up in jail or the grave (quite a natural maternal instinct).
I came to Republicanism of my own free volition after reading up on Irish history and politics and from experiencing British occupation first hand in South Armagh.
As a Catholic I have already accepted that I am going to die, we all die a little each day. That is not something that I fear.
Cicero said it best "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes"
My zeal for Sinn Féin may have waned before I die, that will depend on how Sinn Féin and politics in general progresses , but I will always be a Republican.
I do have political principles and beliefs, that's why I'm involved in Republican politics.
I want to see them delivered, not enshrined on some gable wall as an aspiration of a dogmatic and purist community which never sought to compromise on the means in order to advance the ultimate objectives.
Hiya Julius
Sinn Fein is a broad church and many believe the overriding objective is the establishment of a 32 county Republic, with all other objectives secondary. The argument that socialist policies can be fought for after the establishment of the Republic doesn't hold water for me and many others. The working class stood by republicans throughout the conflict. We must stand by them, now and in the future.
Sinn Fein should be challenging right wing politics in the south, not propping it up. The people need a voice and that would be compromised in coaltion with blueshirts or sleaze merchants. A left front would be desirable, but unlikely to involve Labour given their Stick legacy. Anyway, Labour are a bit short on socialism seemingly satisfied with the ridiculous state of affairs in health and education and a myriad of public services which offer opportunities to the wealthy denied to the poor.
I can see Chris' argument, but, as usual, its pure tripe
While I'm on this rant, has anyone noticed the number of repugnant, new aristocrat type West Brits who sit in the Dail?
Is it Observer or observer, Julius?
How dare you Observer, I guess it's right what they say about old dogs 
I take it it Obs rather than obs, Chris.
Couldn't remember. When you get to my age...
You should check out the Deadliest Warrior site on youtube. American programme for the brain dead. Last episode made the BBC news and pissed off Jeffery Donaldson. IRA vs Taliban.
IRA won. Reading the comments, its clear lots of viewers think its real.
It is a scream.
I watched it, when did the Ra use slingshots??
LOL, Yanks!!
"I watched it, when did the Ra use slingshots??"
When they were kids
Hi Observer,
I agree with most of what you wrote above.
Deadliest Warrior
LOL. I must take a look. There was a Yank plastic Paddy who used to stop by here a few years back. Sounds like his type of thing!
The ends justify the means in my opinion.
That what cunts like the UVF and UDA also think Chris. It's the justification used by terrorists be they Islamic, Orange or green.
You forgot to mention the Brits, Ivan
Gaskin, the definition of a "reprobate" is "a depraved, unprincipled, or wicked person". I think that description applies far more to the kind of people who would allow Republican hunger strikers to die in order to advance their own party political strategy, and cavort endlessly with British spies and colonial proxies, than it does to the likes of Ruairi O'Bradaigh or Bernadette Sands-McKevitt. In short, you might want to invest in a dictionary, lawyer-boy.
I'm well aware of the meaning of the word reprobate and I choose my words with very exact reason.
I also know the meaning of the word liar, do you?
"Gaskin, the definition of a "reprobate" is "a depraved, unprincipled, or wicked person". I think that description applies far more to the kind of people who would allow Republican hunger strikers to die in order to advance their own party political strategy"
This is a republican blog according to Chris but he has simply ignored what is a story of huge signifigance for republicans. The revelations at the Gasyard 3 weeks ago, despite being buried in the nationalist media will mark the end of any republican credibility this leadership has with the grass roots, it is truly a shameful episode in the history of the RM and the smear campaign directed at O Rawe following his initial claims expose these people and their conspiracy. Anyone who attends a Sinn Fein organised hungerstrike commemoration over the next few weeks really needs to have a look at themselves.
I'm presuming this Ivan isn't the cigar-smoking Ivan from times past?
He is the previous pipe smokeing Sinn Féin wannabe
Reggie
I don't buy bullshit or serve it
You never e mail me these days Chris - weeps - even after I sent you the funniest cartoon ever !
What is this about the Gasyard reggie ?
Fair comment about the brits Obs.
"I don't buy bullshit or serve it"
Your clearly not suitable for the party then Chris.
Ivan Sinn Fein did not accept their invitation to the gasyard debate but the revelations that night have prompted the leadership of Sinn Fein have convened a meeting with the Hunger strikers relatives tonight behind closed doors to answer a number of concerns regarding an offer to end the Strike which was accepted inside by the prison OC and later overturned by the "kitchen Cabinet", the recent FOI articles, the Martin Climber testimoney, as well as the testimoney of two blanketman corroborate O Rawes claims. They will be talking to family members only and have not extended an invitation to a number of advocates who have been representing the families in this matter for the best part of two years. When O Rawe first brought attention to his claims they were dismissed as a fabrication by Morrison and BIK, over the last two years the controversy has bubbled under the surface, the lid was lifted at the gasyard 3 weeks ago. I recommend you have a look and read at the various threads below o give you the heads up. The Gasyard debate is on youtube for all to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q...h?
v=qb50fUXN2Uw
http://thepensivequill.am/2009/0...-
graveyard.html
http://rsmforum.proboards.com/in...lay&
thread=2657
http://rsmforum.proboards.com/in...lay&
thread=2656
http://sluggerotoole.com/index.p...representative/
http://www.irishrepublican.net/f...ead.php?
t=33061
http://sluggerotoole.com/index.p...ndex.php/16115/
Reggie - Comes as no surprise - why would it ? People who would abduct a child with learning difficulties from school and shoot him in the head would be capable of anything - and letting people starve for politics is not without precedent in Ireland.
It just gets worse.
http://www.irishrepublican.net/f...t=33061&
page=92
Gaskin, I have no doubt at all that you know the every nuanced meaning of the word "liar"; you are of course a slavish follower of perhaps the biggest cabal of liars, deceivers and cheats in Irish history.
Ivan,
I had a look over a thread on ATW a few months back in which there was talk of old commenters. They were speculating that you might have passed on!
Glad to see they wrote you off a bit soon.
Julius - my mother got sicker and sicker and finally passed away - and I decided to take a break, in part because I wanted to see how NSF behaved in office.
Excuse my ignorance, Ivan, have we conversed before?
I certainly remember having discussions here with someone using the name "Observer" in the past - though I cannot remember if I used a different handle myself back then.
Chris might know.
He has to know something
Ivan,
Sorry for the loss of your mother. Good to see you knocking around again.
Obs,
Ivan is Madradin Ruad. You guys were gonna swap cigars at one stage I think!! And no, that's not some kind of gross euphemism.
Ah, I used Madradin Ruad here. I remember. I'm the guy who uses a lot of quotes - such as this one by a TD in a debate in Dáil Eireann
"Mr. Corry: I am absolutely against that policy. I believe that this country, which has made so many sacrifices in order to clear out its enemies, is worth defending. I believe it is worth while building up here a defence force which will be strong enough for other purposes, [316] because we may have very different views as to how we are going to complete the independence of this nation of 32 counties. We may have very widely divergent views as to how it is going to be done. I personally am in favour of storing up sufficient poison gas, so that when you get the wind in the right direction you an start at the Border and let it travel, and folIow it.
An Ceann Comhairle: This poison gas is not relevant to the debate.
Mr. Corry: I am speaking of the ways and means by which we can finish the job which we set our hands to in 1916.
An Ceann Comhairle: The question does not arise. "
You old dog!
Thanks Julius. It was pipe tobacco, I think. Cigars aren't my thing.
Soerry to hear of your loss, Ivan.
"I believe that this country, which has made so many sacrifices in order to clear out its enemies, is worth defending. I believe it is worth while building up here a defence force which will be strong enough for other purposes, [316] because we may have very different views as to how we are going to complete the independence of this nation of 32 counties. We may have very widely divergent views as to how it is going to be done. I personally am in favour of storing up sufficient poison gas, so that when you get the wind in the right direction you an start at the Border and let it travel, and folIow it."
Perhaps the most straightforwardly sensible words ever uttered in the Dublin Dail, in principle at least.
No comment upon the gassing comment in parliament - not even a mild reprimand from the authorities for such an outrageous suggestion - Obs ?
I can see why you may be perturbed.
I live in the north, as did my parents and grandparents.
I share your concerns, however I am assured they are working on a gas that only affects heretics
Hell, even Paisley threw George Seawright out of the DUP for talking that sort of crap.
Paisley was jealous.
Which party was Corry with?
The Cean Comhairle?
Where do you find this stuff, Ivan?
Shit, that's three question marks in a row.
Not only was Seawright thrown out of party, he was prosecuted for Incitement to hatred, fined and jailed.
Corry was a WOI Veteran and long standing FF'er.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar...ish_politician)
It's amazing what you can read in reports from the Dail
http://www.oireachtas-
debates.go...3804270044.html
Ceann Comhairle - equated to the Speaker of the House of Commons - it was Frank Fahy , also FF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Fahy
"prosecuted for Incitement to hatred, fined and jailed."
You can imagine Paisley being outraged by such a man
I knew what the CC was, just not who it was.
Both FFrs, eh.
Gotta be some way to use that information. Could start a rumour that FF still have stockpiles of gas.
Were they going to issue gas masks to Catholics, or was it to be an equal opportunities genocide?
Its a great wee country
I have read before that there is no great love lost between republicans in the ROI and Northern Nationalists.
Nice one, Ivan. It's a bit like the antipathy between British people and northern unionists.
It's a bit like the antipathy between British people and northern unionists.
Indeed! I think the word is "utter indifference" concerning British attitudes to unionists.
Ivan,
The gas comment is outrageous. No sane person would excuse such a comment in any context.
All gone very quiet here.
Discovered Spotify - listening to Let's Impeach the President by Neil Young.
Not much happening, Ivan.
Chris seems to have missed a racial pogrom and the fact that Nelson McCausland is going to have to learn Ulster-Scots up at the big hoose as well as a flat earther being given access to finance.
How are things in the real world?
I've spent the last week looking for gas masks. You never know what Fianna Fail might do to take people's minds off the economy.
I thought the decommissioning would have woken him up Obs. It's about bloody time.
Ivan, you must be very proud that your murdering psycho friends in the "Loyalist" death squads were able to sufficiently overcome their hatred of Catholics to decide to get rid of their weapons, several years after the Provos did so. It was very "brave" of them wasn't it Ivan?
Shane, wind your neck in!
Ivan has never shown any support for Unionist death squads.
Thank you Chris. It's a step forward though I don't trust them one inch.
Thoughts on Ian Jnr being denied martyrdom ?
He's been denied the opportunity to become leader of the DUP!
Don't you have to be an ex-con to hold that job?
No, wait! Robinson paid the fine!
Ian Og still has a chance.
Define irony: the eminently "anti-terrorism" party the DUP led by a known terrorist, Peter Robinson. Just one of the reasons for the DUP's traditionally ambivalent relationship with the "Loyalist" murder gangs.
The expert speaks LOL
It seems very quiet around Balrog Towers these days.
Anyone got any views on the new Crime Bill in the Republic? An overdue crackdown on gang crime (and the intimidation that surrounds it) or a hysterical overreaction that infringes civil liberties?
I'll be interested to see the reaction to the suggestion that they may not face a jury.
Gardai have arrested a man in his 30s in connection with the murder of south Armagh man Paul Quinn in October 2007.
The arrest was made in Carrickmacross yesterday and the suspect is being questioned at Monaghan Garda Station.
Mr Quinn, a 21-year-old from Cullyhanna, was beaten to death by a gang of men after being lured to a remote farm near Castleblaney.
His family has blamed IRA members from south Armagh for the murder.
Several people have been arrested and questioned on either side of the border, but nobody has been charged in connection with the killing.
Good republican?
It goes around and it comes around.
You, Ivan/Observer/Madrin Ruadh, etc/etc mocked my blog on my own fathers death...
"It goes around and it comes around."
The most disgusting schadenfruede I have ever witnessed.
Apart from being untrue, your post is a disgrace.
How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you engage in this sort of disturbing crap?
Observer,
Spot on.
Chris, any thoughts on the teenage riots in Ardoyne etc?
Apart from disturbing aspect of dissidents incouraging children to riot, why are the rioters always small (angry little midgets!)? I'll bet the law-abiding, tall teenagers of Ardoyne were studying or playing sport or the like.
Dunno where Chris has got to, Reg.
Ardoyne, maybe...
what goes and comes around is called karma obs, don't be afraid of it, unless of course you feel guilty.
You and your friend starting to feel the need for attention again, Percy?
I don't think anyone is interested enough to indulge you anymore.
of course you don't include yourself in that last statement obs, or you wouldn't have reacted???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_...h?v=_JSa0iy9-
Rs
who feels it, knows it.?
Sadly, untrue.
Goodbye Percy.
Dunno where Chris has got to, Reg.
Ardoyne, maybe...
LOL!
BTW, if anyone is interested the Progressive Economy blog has some great posts up about the proposed attacks on public services and working people in the McCarthy report.
http://www.progressive-economy.ie/
Its not just McCarthy, Julian, the entire government strategy so far has been aimed at taking money out of people's pockets (particularly PAYE workers) and handing it over to the banks.
They're not even wearing masks!
If ever there was a need for a united left, its now.
Sorry about the Julian blunder, Julius.
Obs,
I agree. The gist of the report was as predictable as night and day. The script was written before they even met... a group of 'experts' drawn for the rich elite are hardly going to recommend cuts that will affect their own class. Still there is something obscene about the whole thing.
The commission on taxation is to report soon. It'll be the same narrative of course; we can't tax the richest people as it will act as a disincentive.
Strange how the same logic is not applied to low and middle income earners and those on social wefare. In other words, the great mass of people. They're the ones you want to be out spending money to get the economy moving again. The way we're going people are just going to retreat into their shells and not spend a penny, mainly because they'll scarcely have a penny to spend.
Sorry about the Julian blunder, Julius.
Haha.. no problem. Tony has been calling me 'julias' for years now and I've never bothered correcting him. It's a bloody stupid name however it's spelt!
Aye, Julius, and the media have connived for months to prepare the people for what is being portrayed as the only option.
The lack of imagination is almost as appalling as the lack of interest in the welfare of ordinary people.
Shitheads, the lot of them.
she is an orchid in a heap of dung
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