How predictable, trot out the old "unionists are chauvinists who don't like her because she's a woman".
Ballocks, it's because she's been an abject failure at her job and thinks she can run her department as her own private fiefdom, treating her own committee with contempt (much like Edwin Poots who is almost as contemptible). This threat about pushing it through without a vote is a disgrace and runs against the whole principle of power-sharing and the cross-community safeguards that were specifically negotiated to protect nationalists in the first instance.
So there's nothing wrong with enjoying the benefits of a grammar education and recognising (what you perceive as) flaws in it; you're not a hypocrite for that, but assuming you support power-sharing and the safeguards then yes you're an enormous hypocrite to suggest that the above-outlined course of action is a good thing. For what it's worth, I could see something like that pulling the whole executive down and if she goes through with it I hope it does.
"Catholics have always saw education as a way to advance and better your position in life"
Classic; couldn't make it up.
And for Christ sake leave the "elitist" crap out of it. You expect it from someone like Ruane but please give your readers a bit more credit. Next you'll be telling us Glasgow Celtic are "elitist" because they won't let you play centre-forward in their next match.
"I know young fellas at 18 and 19 who have left school and who can't read or write"
Disgraceful I know, but nobody's fault save their own. That's not to say I'd give up on trying to improve the situation, it benefits everyone to raise the minimum standards, but these people are not victims.
In Canada we had testing when I was thirteen, the tests results were not released to anyone but the student and their parents. The tests were more along the lines guidance as to the students future but the choice of which stream was and is up to the student and their parents. Schools accepted or not baseed on your marks in school as they are a better indication of level of interest.
For instance I did very well on the testing finishing with an average of over 85 percentile, but school holding no particular fascination for me my marks were average at best.
How ever when I passed out of junior high school at 15 I was allowed to take the academic courses and my marks improved a little as atleast they were being taught on more of a pace to keep my interest.
my point to all this
I think primary school should run to P8 and then students streamed into grammar schools but not on a selection test but based on what the students and their families want.
Chris is perfectly right, education is not the be all and end all and it just not suit everybody.
University is not success and trades are not failures.
Infact here in Canada there is such a shortage of trades that many plumbers - electricians - carpenters are making more than university grads.
Just FYI trades are in demand here too Sean. I think its quite a widespread problem.
Let them run with their exams. First time around every single parent of a child who fails the entrance exam should be encouraged to take individual legal action against the schools concerned. Dozens or indeed hundreds of legal challenges to individual schools will bring an enormous and welcome burden to these people.
They need to be chastened and the sooner the better, but best to let them be the authors of their own downfall.
Disclaimer: I was one of he 30% too. And although there was advantage to be gained from that vantage point, the unfairness - the 30/70 split - does bug me.
The leaked paper made me think too.
It's not really even the 30/70 split of pupils. Many secondary schools go up to A-Level now, and many are excellent places of education, filled with keen and accessible teachers.
No, it's the fact that grammar schools are not as elitist as they make out to be. To compensate for falling rolls, many are taking in students with lower grades than they used to. And while that keeps them viable, it shifts their pressure across to the secondary sector that is then even shorter of pupils.
There's something unhealthy about an education system which gives everyone a crick in their neck looking up to grammar schools. I want our three year old Littl'un to be guaranteed a good education no matter how academic she turns out to be, or how well she performs at exams.
I want to know that the entire education sector is gripped by a desire to do the best for all students. Not necessarily equality of course availability. But an equality of intent. And a spirit of cooperation across schools each with with different ethos.
In another context, the word of the week was asymmetry - Northern Ireland could live with an asymmetric educational system - if it was one were different schools treated each other with respect, stopped being competitive to the point of keeping themselves alive while sacrificing other campuses down the road.
Umm ... a longer rant than I expected.
Whether you consider Ruanes performance good or bad it is abundantly clear she is wholeheartedly committed to the ending of selection. This opposition to selection is so strong however and to such an extent that he she has inadvertantly damaged her own agenda and more important goals of wider educational reform.
Personally I see no distinction between selection and streaming which the current system promotes across institutions while any new system will administer this "in house". In both cases Children are divided on "ability" and "educated" accordingly to the current en vogue curriculum.
People become irrational about two main things their children and education and Ruane seems to have caught the bug. The main weakness in our education system is that a large proportion of children leave school without a basic education. The literacy and numeracy rates of the bottom 25% of 16 year olds has to be dealt with. In the absence of firm details on the new curriculum to be put in place post primary the speculation is that the model will resemble the Republics and new Scottish model (the standard grades being abolished). But where ever meaningful studies have been carried out the greatest factors affecting the educational attainment are outside of school. Housing, Income, Family cohesion, Peer pressure and parenting have a huge effect on what children can achieve while at school. Whatever education system is in place the same people keep failing.
My own personal view is that schools regardless of who or what they are teaching should be at the centre of the community and have to move beyond simple role of curriculum enforcers they have a duty of care to their children and as such to their lives outside of school. I have long maintained that all schools should be open until well into the evening and the activities that happen in the evening should be compulsary involve the parents and specialists if need be. I'm not talking about just homework clubs but parenting classes, role playing exercises, behavioural and cognitive therapies in assertiveness, confidence building, public speaking, social interaction, exercise and diet. You name it whatever the children need to better their chances they should get it and through the school.
Chris,
Great piece, you touched all bases as to why selection must end. When your critics [wrongly] claim that despite you having had a Grammar school education, you now wish to deprive others of the chance, they are all but admitting that the current system deprives the majority of working class school students of a first class education.
Well said my friend.
"I have long maintained that all schools should be open until well into the evening and the activities that happen in the evening should be compulsary involve the parents and specialists if need be. I'm not talking about just homework clubs but parenting classes, role playing exercises, behavioural and cognitive therapies in assertiveness, confidence building, public speaking, social interaction, exercise and diet. You name it whatever the children need to better their chances they should get it and through the school."
That is all part of the current Sinn Féin Education policy which seeks to place schools at the centre of the community.
"That is all part of the current Sinn Féin Education policy which seeks to place schools at the centre of the community."
Well get the message out and shout it from the rooftops because it's the first i've heard of Sinn fein having any concrete plans apart from the ending of selection.
The debate is unfortunately focused on selection we should having the debate on helping those children who are leaving school without the skills necessary for the real world.
Reggie
Sinn Féin have an extensive education policy about a lot more than selection.
At the Ard Fheis CR was mandated to implement that policy.
Chris,
I substantially agree with the spirit of what you wrote. However, I think that some sort of selection is warranted. If one were to look at the state of public education in the US, and I believe in England as well, the absence of any form of selection has not succeeded in raising the general standard of education but rather in lowering it. To the extent that in the US, any parents with the wherewithal to send their children to a private school will do so, leaving the poor and less - than- affluent stuck in underfunded, neglected public schools. The same scenario could easily emerge in NI.
I think selection in some form should remain, but governed under a system less brutal than the current 11+.
"I substantially agree with the spirit of what you wrote. However, I think that some sort of selection is warranted. If one were to look at the state of public education in the US, and I believe in England as well, the absence of any form of selection has not succeeded in raising the general standard of education but rather in lowering it. To the extent that in the US, any parents with the wherewithal to send their children to a private school will do so, leaving the poor and less - than- affluent stuck in underfunded, neglected public schools. The same scenario could easily emerge in NI.
I think selection in some form should remain, but governed under a system less brutal than the current 11+."
I don't necessarily disagree with what your saying regarding the American experience but i'm not interested in those who can choose and afford to pay for the education of their children. The further seperation of the grammar sector was an obvious result of some of the proposed reforms. I'm solely interested in where the debate needs to be focused on the generations of people from a similar background who leave school with much less of a chance of a stake in society than their peers.
Good post, Chris.
Hooked Beano right away
Hopefully the ending of selection will herald the gradual implementation of the Sinn Fein education reforms in their entirety.
The policy document is excellent and aims at creating a learning environment for the community, not just the pupils.
The greatest opponents of this will be the unionist leadership, once again at the expense of the unionist working class.
Lets hope the people on the Shankill et al stand up for their kids and force these wasters to act in their best interests.
Let's hope so indeed, Tantum eruditi sunt liberi
"Tantum eruditi sunt liberi"
Please don't start this again.
My brain is hurting already.
Catholics have always saw education
Classic!
McKelvey
It is an illusion commonly held in the north that comprehensive education has failed and reduced the standard of education in the rest of the UK, one only has to look at the numbers attending Uni today and back in the past to see that this cannot be true. That is not saying that there are not still major problems with the education standards, which are patchy and class based to say the least.
Are there some very fine grammars, yes, but many of the schools which moved from being good grammars have moved over to being first class Comps.
As with many working class protestant parents in the north, far to many working class parents elsewhere in the UK still have not got around to understanding that given a good education, the world can really be their child's oyster.
The main reason for this is their own lack of a good education which has failed to instill in them an open ambition for their kids.
Grammar schools simply reinforce this type of thinking for the simple reason there is not enough places within them to accommodate all the pupils within the secondary system.
The problem with expanding a technical based education is that the UK economy is no longer structured around manufacturing, I wish this were not so, but unless it is changed there is little point in turning out thousand and thousands of fitters, electricians etc.
One of the the main ways educational standards will rise is by have active parenting, this would mean schools expecting their pupils parent's to play a role in their school etc.
Spot on, Mick.
Learn them proper I say!
...failed to instill in them an open ambition for their kids
Good points Mick.
There's a similar situations in the South. They abolished university fees but more or the same proportions of people from each socio-economic group attend universtiy. No fees is a damn good start but that's all it is.
Mick
The problem with expanding a technical based education is that the UK economy is no longer structured around manufacturing, I wish this were not so, but unless it is changed there is little point in turning out thousand and thousands of fitters, electricians etc.
Because Mick unless nIreland is very much different then Canada, the thousands and thousands of electricians and fitters that are already there are getting due to retire with few up and comers available to take their place.
Of course maybe nIreland doesnt suffer the baby boomer curse and I am completely off base
It's discrimination so it is!
Come on Chris, you're going to have to do better than that!
Opposition to Caitriona Ruane has nothing to do with the fact that she comes from the Irish Republic or the arrangement and design of her bodily organs, nor does the fact that she speaks Irish have anything to do with it.
What has truned most people (even Carmel Hannah and David Ford who agree with her in broad terms) against the minister is the fact that she has attempted to threaten and bully people who dare to disagree with her. She knew that academic selection was guaranteed in legislation and she chose to try and ride roughshod over that - she has come acropper as a consequence.
A way forward can be found, but Caitriona Ruane needs to recognise that she is not lobbying for money for the West Belfast Festival, or campaigning to bring people home from Colombia - she needs to deal with the mathematical realities in Stormont.
It's clear that this is now the central party line. Any time Ruane gets attacked its because she's a woman. Well, as a member of a party that has a female minister in the executive and a female committee chair, who also happens to be a Member of Parliament, I think it's a pretty weak defence and demeaning to women in politics for Sinn Fein to rely upon it.
Threatening people, in the manner you have done in this post isn't going to get you anywhere. One small fact you might like to consider: who controls the Finance Ministry? I'll leave you to ponder that one.
Christopher
I have a certain amount of sympathy with your point as the shinners do have a tendency to circle the wagons, but that is far from the whole story, as I think you know.
JG
We agree I think, the problem when you have selective eduction, whether it is Grammars or public schools, [private] is that this reinforces in 'some' working class parents minds that higher education is not for the likes of them or their children.
Sean
No you are correct, I believe big business thinks it can ship in newcomers from the third world to replace the skilled workers you mention. I firmly believe the best way to deal with the problem of the lack of skilled craftsmen/women is for central government to enforce some sort of system which makes employers take on a percentage of paid apprentices etc. Such a system should be administered jointly by the employers, government and the trade unions.
Mick
Here in Canada or atleast in western Canada they hire all the licensed apprentices they can find in fact they hold jobs fairs at the trade schools where individual companies try to attract apprentices to their particular company.
So far my part of the construction industry is not regulated in that way and I hire new people all the time and get them started climbing the ladder. Unfortunately they think they are climbing much faster than I do and they seem unwilling to put in the time the rest of us have
Sean
Yeah, don't fund grammar schools, so that they go private.
That'll really be fair!
Can't resist this classic:
"Catholics have always saw education as a way to advance and better your position in life"
LOL! Clearly not grammar lessons, anyway!
yeah Chris a snotty criticism of your grammar should have put you in your place!!!!
willow get a life I hear they are cheap for twerps
"Here in Canada or at least in western Canada they hire all the licensed apprentices they can find in fact they hold jobs fairs at the trade schools where individual companies try to attract apprentices to their particular company."
Sean
This sounds a good system, I would like to find a bit more about that, as I may write something about it.
By the way when I wrote of new comers being brought in to take up the slack over skilled workers I was not being racist, it is just I believe we should be training our own, not least because the third world nations need their own skilled workers to help build there nations.
All the best
We in Canada and My company are bringing in skilled or semi skilled tradesman from over seas simply because we can not find enough with in the current population and so we steal from other countries same as we do other companies when we are afforded the opportunity
As for their countries needing their services this is unarguably true but at the same token how can you deny some one the opportunity to a better life.
Lets face it being poor in the UK or Canada or most western nations is still far superior to being "middle Class" in the Sudan
Though Mick I will say part of our problem attracting employees is that as they graduate now they don't look for work they look for a paycheck and few of the recent high school grads show any pride in their work or ambition. They want to start at the top with out expierience or knowledge.
And here is my racist bit, immigrants work harder and longer than the native sons and complain a whole lot less
Sean
I'm with you on this, over here a lot of people instead of looking down their noses at immigrants, would do far better to take a leaf out of there book as far as hard work is concerned and making a decent life for themselves.
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