Chris, another option would be to leave SF and join éirígí, to reject the latest campaign as counterproductive and one that causes misery but won't achieve gains but also to reject the leadership of SF and the "traitor" talk as hypocritical and off-base. This isn't a binary choice between supporting RIRA/CIRA armed action and supporting SF. There are other ways as well, perhaps ways that are truer to your republican ideals.
But it is not my place to tell you what to do or think, especially as an outsider and perhaps a voyeuristic one at that who should mind his own damn business.
I believe in the Sinn Féin strategy NCM.
I was impressed by those strong words from Mr. McGuinness. They are quite literally true.
Enlightening heart-on-sleeve as usual, Chris. I can see the tensions.
The biggest difference between now and 1916/1919/1969 is that England no longer means harm to the Irish, and Unionists are committed to shared power and a shared destiny. These conditions have never existed before.
Let history inspire us, not shackle us.
"When Collins and others signed the treaty with the British the IRA condemned them as traitors and treated them as men who had sullied the proud tradition of Republicanism."
The irony, of course, is that for all the accusations of Collins being a "traitor", what he gained for Ireland cannot be compared to the utterly measly scraps that Adams and McGuinness have gained for their party - their party, NOT Ireland - as a result of twenty-five years of armed struggle.
"Today we find ourselves in a different situation and I find myself on the wrong side according to traditional Republican orthodoxy."
Well, there are plenty of others.
"I happen to think that Martin was right to say what he said, indeed it needed to be said to stop any potential leakage of support to these dissidents."
On the other hand it could just as well have the opposing effect. McGuinness should have kept his mouth shut. He came off looking more pro-British than Peter Robinson.
"Martin is a former leader of Oglaigh Na hÉireann, a man who has dedicated his life to achieving a United Ireland."
And a man who will be cold in the ground long before there is ever a United Ireland.
"His words are all the more significant because of the fact that Martin said it. Martin, more than anyone in the Sinn Féin leadership is the one who resonates in the Republican heartlands."
Perhaps not any more.
"The Irish people declared in one clear voice, North and South, in 1998 that the only way to a United Ireland was through politics."
You're quite wrong. The Irish people voted in 1998 for "peace", not for a United Ireland one hundred years done the line through neo-Parnellism.
"Thus these dissidents are acting against the clear wishes of the Irish people and that I can not support."
Since when has Irish Republican armed struggle ever been suffused with the spirit of democracy? The answer is: it NEVER has.
"I was impressed by those strong words from Mr. McGuinness. They are quite literally true."
In what way exactly? Do you really need reminding that the actual effect of the GFA was to legitimise the British presence in Ireland, something that no actual Republican can ever logically countenance?
"Unionists are committed to shared power and a shared destiny."
The "Unionist" commitment to so-called "power-sharing" is a shallow, functional one. They are only committed to it because they see themselves as having no other choice. If they did see a stronger long-term alternative, they would be out of "power-sharing" in a second.
It's really a moot point of course, because the DUP dominate the "Northern Ireland Assembly" and "Executive", and the Adams Faction have shown themselves to be completely ineffectual, even powerless, to stop them implementing their agenda of ever closer union with Britain one stage at a time.
As for this nonsense about "shared destiny", the Unionist conception of "destiny" has absolutely nothing in common with the Republican one.
"The biggest difference between now and 1916/1919/1969 is that England no longer means harm to the Irish"
It wasn't the English who were doing the harm in 1969 either, at least not directly.
While reading that i thought you were having second thoughts regarding your support for PSF, obviously not though.
Has you said history will tell if you have made the right choice but in my opinion it seems that history is repeating itself
"Has you said history will tell if you have made the right choice but in my opinion it seems that history is repeating itself"
It's even worse than that.
Has anyone else detected an element of foul play in these killings? For 23 years the CIRA failed to land a single hit, for 12 years the Cokes could not hit the arse of a cow with a banjo, never mind score one against the Brits. Then we have the talk of British special forces being brought into the 6 co's to counter the 'dissident threat'? Bringing special forces back to counter a nonexistent threat is a weird development. 72 hours later and what do you know the Cokes discover how to use their guns after 12 years and the CIRA come out of semi-retirement after 23 years. Seems the Brits have their agents very well placed in these micro-groups indeed!
Shane
I don't here seek to debate the pros or cons of the GFA.
But the fact is that this agreement was submitted to a vote by the Irish people, and they expressed their support in the plebiscite.
Thosewho engaged in these sneak attacks against soldiers ordering a pizza or a policeman responding to a distress call were also aiming their guns at Irish democracy as it was freely expressed.
That is treason.
[NCM]Chris, another option would be to leave SF and join éirígí, to reject the latest campaign as counterproductive and one that causes misery but won't achieve gains but also to reject the leadership of SF and the "traitor" talk as hypocritical and off-base
If Chris believed SF's strategy to be corrrect before these recent attacks then I don't see why he would leave SF now.
If it was right two weeks ago then it's right today.
Something like this was always going to happen at some point. While McGuinness' language does seem a little rich on the face of it, it will seem normal soon enough... a bit like seeing Marty and Ian chuckling away together for the first time!
Personally, I don't see any headway being made towards Irish unity, but a return to violence is unthinkable. I hope all these guys are caught and convicted. It think everyone would be better off.
You're right Phantom, anyone Irishman who strikes against a political set-up that legitimises the British presence in Ireland is a traitor, because the majority accepted it, just as if, let's say, the people of Ireland voted tomorrow to rejoin the United Kingdom, anyone who resisted that would also be a traitor. The men of 1916 and the IRA of 1919-1921 were traitors as well weren't they, Phantom?
Don't get cute.
And ( I know that this will piss you off ) if the majority wanted to rejoin the UK that would indeed be their right that all would be bound to respect.
If these guys wanted to strike against the existing arrangements they could have tried to persuade their fellow citizens - not shooting against those who have done no harm, when their guard is down.
Power does not lie in the barrel of a gun. Not anymore.
"And ( I know that this will piss you off ) if the majority wanted to rejoin the UK that would indeed be their right that all would be bound to respect."
I've nothing more to say to you, Orangeman. It's people like you who are what's wrong with Ireland, North and South, today. With that single sentence you have insulted all those who fought, bled and died for Irish freedom.
I've nothing more to say to you, Orangeman. It's people like you who are what's wrong with Ireland, North and South, today.
LOL! Phantom lives in New York, Shane.
But he has close links to the old sod and is, and will always be, a welcome guest to our fair land! 
Shane
I didn't say that I support such a thing.
I said that the Irish people have the right to make that decision - or any decision on their county's affairs - joining the EU, joining NATO, deciding to drive on the right side of the road, outlawing soccer - pretty much anything.
The people rule. What part of that sentance don't you understand?
Im actually getting quite sick of gaskin and his hypocrisy. I wonder what he ever did for the cause in the first place write on here and deliver a few leaflets is the height of it dare i say.
What these people are doing at the minute there is no difference from the PIRA and for McGuinness to call them traitors when hes sold out every republican ideal is a disgrace.
The present actions will lead to nothing but death and more division the same as the PIRA campaign when vols were lead up the garden path imprisoned and killed for years to put these c*nts in goverment the pira campaign ulimately was for nothing, the same as this one
"Thosewho engaged in these sneak attacks against soldiers ordering a pizza"
Didn't the Americans invent the stealth bomber for the express purpose of catching anti aircraft crews on their tea break?
Don't support the actions of the dissidents, but hate hypocricy.
I'm not a pacifist but I do believe that military action should only be a last resort. There was a rationale in the past, but it doesn't apply today. In the absence of a rationale, killing another person is wrong, full stop.
Chris
You think McGuinness calling Republicans 'traitors' will halt 'leakage to dissidents'? I think it will have the opposite effect as I have not yet met one person who agreed with him.
McGuinness appears to have developed some kind of delusions of grandeur in even assuming that he has the right to brand anyone a traitor. Anyway, what in the name of God is a 'traitor to the island of Ireland'? That is nonsense, the island is earth, rock and water plus plants!
I see McGuinness described as 'chief securocrat' on a different site and must say I agree wholeheartedly with that. Adams thought that S.F. would sweep the boards in the last Dublin elections following which he would run for and become president of Ireland. He was just wrong but now McGuinness seems to believe that he is the president and speaks for the people of Ireland. Not for me, no way mr securacrat mcg.
"Watching him earlier this week stand with a British chief constable and British First Minister for a British-run North of Ireland, himself now a British micro minister, I ruminated on the crossover he had made. Standing alongside these implacable opponents of everything he had at one time fought for, he was now denouncing as "traitors" those who had believed him when for years he had proclaimed the IRA the cutting edge of republican resistance. Like a chastened moral dwarf in the land of the giants, there he was screaming "midget" at everybody else.
My respect for him had already shrunk in the intervening years commensurate to his diminishing republican status. I cannot claim surprise, having predicted it both publicly and privately for the past 15 years. The leadership's ambivalent attitude to the non-republican document, the Downing Street Declaration of December 1993, was the writing on the wall. And it spelled "capitulation".
Since then, beginning with an article in Fortnight, the North's main political journal, I sought to question the direction in which the struggle was moving. For the first year things were OK. Wearing an academic hat for cover I could write and comment pretty much as I wanted. By November 1994, the squeeze was on. At an academic conference I had predicted the type of outcome we have today. Summoned to the Sinn Fein headquarters in Belfast by a friend and colleague, I was asked how it was possible for me to have arrived at such a damning indictment of the leadership's strategy. Despite the obvious logic of the trajectory about to be embarked upon, I was rapidly becoming a "thought criminal"."
Anthony McIntyre
"What these people are doing at the minute there is no difference from the PIRA and for McGuinness to call them traitors when hes sold out every republican ideal is a disgrace.
The present actions will lead to nothing but death and more division the same as the PIRA campaign when vols were lead up the garden path imprisoned and killed for years to put these c*nts in goverment the pira campaign ulimately was for nothing, the same as this one"
Hear, hear, that's the nub of it right there. Every Irishman and Irishwoman who ever gave their life for Ireland must be spinning in their grave right now.
As for this nonsense about "shared destiny", the Unionist conception of "destiny" has absolutely nothing in common with the Republican one.
Shane, if everyone sticks to extreme partisan views like you seem to espouse, there'll be deadlock and bitterness for 800 more years. I believe Unionists have signed up to a shared destiny - i.e. democratic evolution in concert with others as opposed to armed revolution.
Free your mind, Shane, and stop dedicating your undoubted talents to fighting your grandfathers' battles. What good is a borderless Ireland while its people are disunited? Irish freedom means a lot more than being shackled to the past.
A.N.Other: "Didn't the Americans invent the stealth bomber for the express purpose of catching anti aircraft crews on their tea break?"
---
Exactly. Though so far the US hasn't deliberately targeted any pizza factories. Yugo factories, sure, but no pizza targets.
What "Unionists" are committed to, Big Ulsterman, is the perpetuation of the "Union", by whatever means necessary. If power-sharing can secure that, so much the better for them. Their naked contempt for the expressed will of the vast mass of the Irish nation is a matter of historical record. They will never conceivably, as a group, abandon "Unionism", especially for as long as they see so-called "Republicans" behaving like pathetic whipped curs towards their political leaders. Their natural defiance doesn't incline them towards such behaviour. Irish Republicans need to accept the severity of the "Unionist" problem, and stop pussyfooting around it.
"Irish freedom means a lot more than being shackled to the past."
It certainly doesn't mean the dystopian future for Irish Republicanism that we can now anticipate under the catastrophically failing "leadership" of Adams and McGuinness.
Shane
Present your case to the broader public that lives in Ireland - who have expressed their support for putting the gun out of politics for good
Dealing principally with an echo chamber of locals who agree with you accomplishes nothing.
Shooting soldiers and cops who mean you no harm accomplishes nothing.
Shooting pizza delivery men is profoundly unmanly.
The people rule. You and your few mates do not. Get that through your cranium.
Shane
You are wrong what the GFA does is legitimise an United Ireland because it put in place and copper fastened a process to Unite Ireland. Now its just a matter of operating the process to achieve the goal
Shooting police is now counter productive and shooting soldiers is not helpful even if it is politically symbolic.
Comrade, sorry to see you endorsing McGuinness' comments but you are entitled to your opinion.
Do you not think chara that S/F should be demanding that the remanants of the British army should leave Irish soil?
"You are wrong what the GFA does is legitimise an United Ireland because it put in place and copper fastened a process to Unite Ireland. Now its just a matter of operating the process to achieve the goal"
Are you completely deluded? Have you even read the text of the GFA, or its successor the St Andrew's Agreement (the result of your party allowing the DUP to renegotiate the GFA on their term)? Explain to me exactly how, if you possibly can, either one of these agreements "put in place and copper fastened a process to Unite Ireland".
Have you never heard of a referendum shane? And they arent my party I dont believe in organized religion or politics
I see Sean has dodged Shane's question:
Explain to me exactly how, if you possibly can, either one of these agreements "put in place and copper fastened a process to Unite Ireland".
I don't agree with a lot of what Shane says but the fact is, nobody has/can answered this.
its a simple referendum 50%+1
what did i dodge
I put it in bold to help you, Sean.
Sean
"It's a simple referendum 50%+1"
Firstly it's two referenda, one in the six counties and one in the twenty six. No guarantee that the twenty six will vote to accept the result of the six county referendum (they would not take place the same time, wee north first and then the state would vote ) Secondly, 50%+1 has been agreed no where and rightly so as it would be ridiculous as it could change day to day. If the votes ever come close to being even we will then find 60% 40% or at least 55% 45% wil be the required figures.
Do you not understand that 50% plus 1 would leave the loyalists in the position to make a bit of noise, plant a bomb or two and our friends in the twenty six counties would quickly vote no. 50% + 1 the loyalists would only need to shoot two every so often to bring it back to 50% -! As a republican I believe this 50% + 1 is nonworkable nonsense meant to keep people happy just like the story that decommissioning never happened.
The english have agreed to recognize 50% +1 and thats all that matters
As far as whether the 26 would accept them thats a laugh
Infact the only thing that is not allowed for is a second referendum if people seemed to have changed their mind. Its basically a nIreland firesale once you bought theres no returns no refunds
But the unionists won nudge nudge wink wink
That's your answer then, Sean, a referendum. Impressive, really.
I'll give this one last go.
Shane's question:
Explain to me exactly how, if you possibly can, either one of these agreements "put in place and copper fastened a process to Unite Ireland".
Over to you, Sean.
JG -
There is a process in place that can unite Ireland if separate majorities in Northern Ireland and Ireland (Republic) vote for it.
I fundamentally disagree with the partition of Ireland, that decision was unfortunately taken 89 years ago and ratified by Dail Eireann 88 years ago.
I think it is incredibly unlikely that the British would walk out on a pro-British majority in a constituent part of the UK. Or that the Irish government would accept NI with a pro-British majority into the Irish state even if they did.
Northern Ireland was founded on the basis of a 70% Ulster Protestant British Unionist majority.
The under 30's are majority Catholic. For those in primary school it is 51% Catholic, 40% Protestant, 9% none / not stated /other (perhaps SDLP &SF - 51, UUP & DUP 40, Alliance 9 for that cohort in the future?). The birth rates have not converged, in fact they have diverged in recent years with the Catholic birth rate increasing faster than the Protestant birth rate.
Take a look at these figures from NISRA.
http://www.nisra.gov.uk/archive/
...births_2008.pdf
18% of births were to mothers from outside NI (and incidentally the impact of migration from Britain is declining). Protestant districts with low immigration have by far the lowest total period fertility (number of children the average woman has) e.g. Larne.
The old certainties of a Unionist majority in Northern Ireland are gone.
A United Ireland is possible by persuading the broad centre ground that it is the best option. Wages are higher, benefits are higher & taxes are lower in the south. The population is also younger and the state is less densely populated (these should mean superior economic growth).
The British aren't going to leave until there is a nationalist majority anyway. Apart from the terrible damage it does to it's victims, violence would polarise NI society and boost support for undemocratic solutions, prolonging the Irish tragedy.
Building support for a United Ireland will be hard work, but it would be more easily done via persuasion than violence.
Mack,
Building support for a United Ireland will be hard work, but it would be more easily done via persuasion than violence
I agree.
What I don't agree with is the suggestion that the inevitable outcome of this process is Irish unity, as several contributors have claimed.
It's a dangerous proposition though. Why should anything be inevitable? Even if the British pulled out tomorrow, there's no guarantee a United Ireland would result.
There's a good chance of achieving a united Ireland through politics and persuasion.
You're right Phantom, anyone Irishman who strikes against a political set-up that legitimises the British presence in Ireland is a traitor, because the majority accepted it...
But Shane, the majority of Ireland voted for Sinn Fein before partition, signaling their desire for an independent Ireland.
...Given that, and using your own logic, isn't it an inescapable conclusion that, finally, Unionism is treason?
JS, of course "Unionism" is treason. I would not deny for one moment that that is the basis of my attitude towards "Unionism". But this is something that most Republicans, more so today, can't seem to grasp, not least because of all the rubbish that the Adams Faction has been so effectively peddling.
Julias
As I am "one of those contributers" that you refer to(How dare you sir, I am an individual!). permit me if you will to ask if you think that we are more likely to see a united Ireland through the current process than through armed struggle? Also are we more likely to see a united Ireland(my guess) in the medium term(say 30 years) that(your guess) of the something resembling the status quo?
"Thosewho engaged in these sneak attacks against soldiers ordering a pizza or a policeman responding to a distress call were also aiming their guns at Irish democracy as it was freely expressed.
That is treason."
Was it treason to kill of duty UDR and RUC officers? How about the "honey trap" killing of those Scott Soldiers?
Britian has never respected the will of the Irish people's right to national self determination and never will.If they did respect it then partition would never have happened.
They invested billions to keep that statelet afloat, bombed Dublin and Monaghan to make the southern government fall into lin, armed and directed their own death squads to keep it.
They put ammendedments on the GFA at St Andrews and will ammend it again over and over with different loopholes to prevent re-uninification.
Tony,
permit me if you will to ask if you think that we are more likely to see a united Ireland through the current process than through armed struggle?
I think armed struggle ran its course. It wasn't going to achieve unity. We agree on that. The current process? Fuck knows, I just don't understand why some people (your esteemed self included) are so bloody sure!
are we more likely to see a united Ireland(my guess) in the medium term(say 30 years) that(your guess) of the something resembling the status quo?
30 years? I can't see it. I think we'll have the status quo except it'll be more stable and (hopefully) there'll be less sectariansim. The status quo will be normalised, IMO.
I'm writing my thesis on the Oslo peace process at the minute and have been trawling through the newspaper archives from that time. It's facinating to read some of the predictions people were making at the time which turned out to be so completely wrong. Others were scarily accurate.
I don't claim to know what'll happen here but I fail to understand how people can be so confident about unity.
Tony
Are you in Australia?
Not yet Phantom, though probably will be in a few years all going well. I thought you knew I was in Glasgow.
Julias
Wonder if anyone of us will still be sad enough to be doing this in 30 years time to say I told you so. Knowing you you will be
Best with the thesis, I know what you mean about old newspapers, I was ripping up some lino that was underneath some carpet in my wee office and found loads of auld papers circa 1981. About how Charles and Di were so in love yadda, yadda. I was almost convinced to send away for the wedding memorial tea set. I wonder if that relationship will last?
Wonder if anyone of us will still be sad enough to be doing this in 30 years time to say I told you so. Knowing you you will be
Yeah, I'll wait that long just to say I told you so. I am that stubborn. So you're planning on heading back to Australia? Nice one.
Tony
Somehow I thought you said you were heading back Down Under.
I spent a week in Sydney some years back. One of the best big cities I've been in.
to be more precise
that you were heading back Down Under really soon!
Got a few things going right now and just waiting for the cards to fall though Oz is the agreed plan but not for at least a few more years.
Re Sydney. Apart from the spectacular Port Jackson and some nice parts around circular quay and my auld stomping ground the rocks, Sydney is built around old cattle droving tracks. And is not comparable to Melbourne as far as nice liveable big cities. Perhaps I am biased.
I agree Melbourne is lovely. I think Sydney is visually very attractive (especially the harbour) though. I spent Chirstmas and New Years in Sydney two years on the trot. Treasured times!
Circular Quay and the Rocks! You're bringing me back, Tony.
Ever heard the song 'From St. Kilda to Kings Cross' by Paul Kelly?
Nice tune.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l...h?
v=l1pAD2RnlMQ
You are educating me Julias, I have been away from Oz too long. Clicked on to a few more tunes, good laid back folky rock tunes.
The "Honest" Irishman on Parramatta road was my usual haunt but the rocks was an occasional regular haunt(if you get me) Don't think I got through a quarter of the place mainly drank in the Irish pub across from the customs house whose name escapes me.
Seems like Perth is the favourite for us to make a new start, followed closely by Melbourne. Then again a newly independent Scotland changes all.
A newly-independent Scotland, using her natural resources for the benefit of her people. Beautiful!
I'm a big fan of Melbourne myself. Worked in St. Kilda for a few months as a carnie, a kitchen porter, a car washer, among other things...!
I spent just a day in Melbourne and it was fine, but that's not enough time to make much of a judgment
What blew me away about Sydney was the beauty of the harbor- the clean water, the little islands. I took a train ride to the Hunter Valley, and that was terrific also.
I found the people of the work hard / play hard school, and that's fine by me.
Hi, Nice blog and I agree with most of your sentiments as a republican and member of Sinn Fein in Laois. I'm glad I found your blog and will be following it in the future. Keep up the good work.
T.
Thanks to the courage of the SAS, the British Army, the RUC and the 1,000,000 British citizens of Northern Ireland, the PIRA have been defeated and surrendered their weapons, and Sinn Fein have accepted the democratic right of Northern Ireland to be governed as part of the United Kingdom.
The IRA in its many forms (PIRA, RIRA and CIRA etc), has been responsible of the murder of hundreds, if not thousands of Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland including most recently Robert McCartney, Dennis Donaldson, Paul Quinn and Stephen Carroll.
It least now the sectarian Republican murder squads of the IRA are nolonger targeting innocent Prodesents simply because they are British citizens.
God luv ye and yir innocent Prodesents. Funny how the IRA(in all it's guises) reputed by the British army to be the most professional guerrilla army in the world were so spectacularly crap at killing Prods. Could it be that they really weren't targetting them, surely not?
Hence the lack of innocent Prodesent bodybags ma man.
Thanks to the courage of the SAS, the British Army, the RUC and the 1,000,000 British citizens of Northern Ireland, the PIRA have been defeated and surrendered their weapons, and Sinn Fein have accepted the democratic right of Northern Ireland to be governed as part of the United Kingdom.
That's an interesting way of putting it... another is, thanks to the courage of oppressed Irish Nationalists in the North, Unionists have finally been dragged, kicking and screaming "No surrender, never!" into the 19th century by Westminster. It must have been quite a revelation to them to learn slavery's been off the books since the 1830s.
Yet another is, thanks to the courage of Irish Nationalists, the British government has finally accepted that it cannot use the 1920 act to supersede the will of the people of Northern Ireland, even if... when... a Nationalist majority votes for union with the republic instead... a republic that now has a say in the governing of Northern Ireland, as well it should.
Yet another is, all the things you now crow about could have come to pass if only Unionists hadn't insisted on being contemptible a$$holes for the first 50 years of the existence of Northern Ireland. But they did, and were, and so thousands of lives were lost or ruined to get where things are now, and should have been in 1922.
your starting point has to be that you are GOLD.
Spandau Ballet - Gold
Next believe that you are TRUE
Spandau Ballet - True
Then put them together.
Believe in the flag,( tri-colour) and let your mind discover its riches, Allow it to inspire you to greatness and endeavor.
Be part of Irelands destiny, even as that destiny flows though you
"Republicans need to stand united and strong against this threat to peace, against this threat to progress."
Chris, tell me what "progress" that may be? I'm a Brit and not a Unionist, and from my perspective, there's no progress wanted (by me) and no progress in reality (from a Republican perspective, unless I misunderstand what the phrase "a united Ireland" means in practice) - a good result. The lid has been put back on the box, less a few rumblings from the undefeated fringe of republican politics. If mainstream republicanism as apparently represented by the bearded wonder and his hand puppet unite in condemnation of the remaining republican fringe then you - yes, the SF supporters - have to wonder where it all went wrong. Jolly good!
Jon
"have to wonder where it all went wrong. Jolly good!"
Bit like the old Geordie Best joke, although, being a self confessed Brit, you may not have heard it.
RUC gone, UDR gone, British army confined to barracks, former IRA man Deputy First Minister, SF ministers in an enforced power sharing executive, with the DUP dependent on them for the existence of the Assembly, GOIA repealed and the way open to a UI, Southern govt input as of right. All this and the unionists still in a majority.
Yes, where did it all go wrong.
"RUC gone"
No, simply rebranded and repackaged as the good old PSNI.
"British army confined to barracks"
Confined to barracks are they? They could be back out on the streets in twenty-four hours if the British government thought the situation warranted it.
"former IRA man Deputy First Minister"
Yes, the pigs in Orwell's Animal Farm would be extremely proud of turncoat McGuinness.
"SF ministers in an enforced power sharing executive, with the DUP dependent on them for the existence of the Assembly"
If you were tuned into reality, you would know that the DUP only have the slightest interest in the "Executive" and "Assembly" if their agenda dominates, and that they refuse to participate in them if it doesn't, as has been the case.
"GOIA repealed and the way open to a UI, Southern govt input as of right."
The Government of Ireland Act was replaced with a far stronger basis for the "legitimacy" of British rule in Ireland: the Good Friday Agreement.
There is no way open to a United Ireland, and Dublin doesn't have the slightest interest at the present time in the affairs of the Six Counties.
No factual refutation, Jon, just your own opinion of the significance of the changes. Legitimate, but strictly your opinion.
"No, simply rebranded and repackaged as the good old PSNI."
Considerably more than that.
"Confined to barracks are they? They could be back out on the streets in twenty-four hours if the British government thought the situation warranted it."
Of course they could. They could put them on the streets of Dublin if they wanted. Point is, they don't want to.
"If you were tuned into reality, you would know that the DUP only have the slightest interest in the "Executive" and "Assembly" if their agenda dominates, and that they refuse to participate in them if it doesn't, as has been the case."
No evidence for this assertion.
"There is no way open to a United Ireland,"
As a Republican I do not and will not accept that.
"Yes, the pigs in Orwell's Animal Farm would be extremely proud of turncoat McGuinness."
When did he become a turncoat, Jon?
ah well shane you can always repeat the mistakes of the IRA.
apparently is the latest craic.
"They could put them on the streets of Dublin if they wanted."
A facetious remark.
"There is no way open to a United Ireland,"
Allow me to clarify. What I meant is that the Adams Faction's so-called "strategy" offers nothing in the way of movement towards a United Ireland.
"No evidence for this assertion."
Ever hear about the St Andrew's Agreement? When the DUP decided that they would renegotiate the terms of the GFA on their own terms as the price of "power-sharing" with the Adams Faction, and the Adams Faction, like the cringing curs that they are, let them? What about the FAILURE of the Adams Faction to secure an Irish Language Act, as they pledged in their manifesto? What about their FAILURE to abolish selective schooling in the Six Counties, another manifesto pledge? How about their FAILURE to devolve policing and justice powers? Hmmm?
"Considerably more than that."
Is the PSNI any less committed to upholding British rule than the RUC? Are they not a BRITISH police force?
"When did he become a turncoat, Jon?"
Well, I could say that it was when he started impressing his pals in the DUP by calling true Republicans "traitors", but it goes much farther back than that. Let's just say, I'm sure that Adams and McGuinness have done very well for themselves financially through their various long-standing associations with various Britishers.
"ah well shane you can always repeat the mistakes of the IRA.
apparently is the latest craic."
When you have something worth saying, I'll reply to you.
"A facetious remark."
I think you are ahead in the facetious stakes, Shane. (Apologies for calling you Jon, I thought you were the self confessed Brit I was responding to.)
"Allow me to clarify. What I meant is that the Adams Faction's so-called "strategy" offers nothing in the way of movement towards a United Ireland."
Who are the Adams Faction?
In response to my assertion that there was no evidence for,
"If you were tuned into reality, you would know that the DUP only have the slightest interest in the "Executive" and "Assembly" if their agenda dominates, and that they refuse to participate in them if it doesn't, as has been the case.",
you state,
"Ever hear about the St Andrew's Agreement? When the DUP decided that they would renegotiate the terms of the GFA on their own terms as the price of "power-sharing" with the Adams Faction, and the Adams Faction, like the cringing curs that they are, let them? What about the FAILURE of the Adams Faction to secure an Irish Language Act, as they pledged in their manifesto? What about their FAILURE to abolish selective schooling in the Six Counties, another manifesto pledge? How about their FAILURE to devolve policing and justice powers? Hmmm?"
How about responding to the point?
"Is the PSNI any less committed to upholding British rule than the RUC? Are they not a BRITISH police force?"
Short of killing everyone committed to upholding British rule immediately, how would you handle the transition?
"Let's just say, I'm sure that Adams and McGuinness have done very well for themselves financially through their various long-standing associations with various Britishers."
Lets not just say it, lets back it up with facts, Shane.
Incidentally, how many factions are there, apart from the lily livered capitalist running dogs of the Adams Faction?
Shane and I seem to be in agreement on our assessment of the situation. It's probably the only thing we'd agree on, though!
To be honest, and while I'm implacably in favour of the current status quo from a mainland perspective, I do wonder why the tragic history of the island is all that seems to be debated. Looking to the future, it seems to me that we all have far bigger things to worry about and to come to agreement on regardless of borders - the econolypse, environmental issues, energy security, free movement of labour and trade and so on. And from that perspective, it also seems to me that the southern government is playing a much smarter game than the morons in power in Westminster. Today's austerity budget from Dublin makes sense, even if painful. On the mainland, we're simply storing up trouble for our children with the insane printing of money.
Jon
Mainland?
I thought you were British.
"When you have something worth saying, I'll reply to you"
Oooh, well mary look at you. lol
"Oooh, well mary look at you. lol"
Thank you for proving my point. Well done, boy, have a nice biscuit now, good boy.
"Short of killing everyone committed to upholding British rule immediately, how would you handle the transition?"
The "transition" you so eagerly speak of is that of the Six Counties going from being ambiguously attached to the rest of the UK to being more closely linked with the rest of the UK than ever before, with the full support of your hero and messiah the Bearded One and his cronies.
"Well done, boy, have a nice biscuit now, good boy"
Ooh Matron!!!
The Shane Faction
"The "transition" you so eagerly speak of.."
"..of your hero and messiah the Bearded One and his cronies."
What are you, 12?
Drop the juvenile jibes and answer the points put to you, if you want to have a debate, or go back to sloganising on walls were you can be fairly sure no-one will challenge your ridiculous assertions.
How the hell could direct rule from Westminister be regarded as more "ambiguously attached to the UK" than government by an Assembly elected by Irish people with legal and increasing links to the rest of the island?
"How the hell could direct rule from Westminister be regarded as more "ambiguously attached to the UK" than government by an Assembly elected by Irish people with legal and increasing links to the rest of the island?"
Back when there was direct rule from Westminster there was no pathetic spectacle of so-called "Republicans" participating in a BRITISH administrative assembly, implementing BRITISH law in the Six Counties, all the while maintaining the fantasy of still being Republicans. The "Northern Ireland Assembly" gets its legitimacy from the BRITISH Parliament and Sovereign, boy, and don't you forget that. The GFA is nothing but a means of making British rule in the Six Counties "palatable" to Republicans, most of whom have fallen for it hook line and sinker. Every man and woman who participates in the "Northern Ireland Assembly", is a worthless gombeen, just like their pals down in Leinster House, who are scarcely better.
"The "Northern Ireland Assembly" gets its legitimacy from the BRITISH Parliament and Sovereign, boy, and don't you forget that."
Cut the crap talk and engage in a proper debate.
How is the link to the UK less ambiguous than direct rule?
What evidence do you have for impugning the reputation of Republicans elected by Irish people?
What strategy would you suggest would be more effective in bringing about unification than the one currently engaged in by the RM? (Include armed struggle if you feel it to be appropriate)?
The statement:
"The "Northern Ireland Assembly" gets its legitimacy from the BRITISH Parliament and Sovereign, boy, and don't you forget that."
is far from "crap talk" as you put it. The "Northern Ireland Assembly" came into being as a result of the Act of the British Parliament. That is a fact whether you like it or care to admit it or not.
You clearly think that just because there is a "Republican" party "co-governing" the Six Counties, the "Northern Ireland Assembly" is somehow not a British political institution that makes and implements British laws.
What you can't see is that the participation of "Republicans" in this loathsome institution simply acts to "legitimise" British rule. After all, if the likes of Adams and McGuinness can accept it, who can't? That is the essence of this excellent con-job that the British, along with their friends Adams and McGuinness and the lapdogs in Dublin, have perpetrated and that you have clearly been duped by. That is why direct rule would actually be preferable to what we have now, because then Republicans would not be in any doubt as to who their real enemies really are.
"What evidence do you have for impugning the reputation of Republicans elected by Irish people?"
Let me make this as clear to you as I can: individuals who participate, collaborate in the British rule of Ireland and label people who actually strike in resistance against British rule as "traitors" forfeit absolutely any right to call themselves "Republican", or to regard themselves as such.
".. far from "crap talk" as you put it."
The crap talk, Shane, are the juvenile insults which pepper your contributions.
"That is why direct rule would actually be preferable to what we have now, because then Republicans would not be in any doubt as to who their real enemies really are."
It may come as a surprise to you, but Republicans are usually quite clear who their enemies are - those who stand in the way of a democratic socialist republic.
If you really need your enemies to wrap themselves in a union flag, I suggest you review your politics.
As a lifelong Republican, old enough to remember Bombay Street, I am not easily duped, nor am I interested in a continued armed stalemate.
My objective,as it has been for 30 years, is the establishment of the Republic, however it is achieved. Glorious failures are of no interest to me. The Brits love them, however. Makes the natives feel big and brave and ensures British control.
We do what we have to to win, even if it doesn't involve appearing like an RTP, much as that might offend the more superficial amongst us.
"Let me make this as clear to you as I can: individuals who participate, collaborate in the British rule of Ireland and label people who actually strike in resistance against British rule as "traitors" forfeit absolutely any right to call themselves "Republican", or to regard themselves as such."
Let me make this clear to you, the objective is to achieve the republic. Anyone who creates an obstacle to that goal is an enemy or, if Irish, a traitor. If the majority of Republicans, including the elected leadership of all elements of the Republican Movement, decide on a course of action, how would you describe those who try to prevent that course of action being carried out - dissenters, dissidents, traitors?
There are those who think a Republican has to wear a combat jacket and engage in armed action. Thank God there are more who believe a Republican should be engaged in whatever actions are required bring about unity, even if it doesn't include wooly faces and AKs.
"Glorious failures are of no interest to me."
Apparently, given your blind support of the surrender process folly, they actually are.
"The Brits love them, however. Makes the natives feel big and brave and ensures British control."
I have absolutely no doubt that you know all about what the British love and what qualities they look for in their pet natives.
What you call the "Republican Movement", that you so slavishly follow the dogma of at every turn because you are plainly too lazy to open your eyes and awake from your smug complacency, has no interest at all in bringing about the Republic.
All that Adams, McGuinness and their cronies give a damn about is their wallets, the cushy little number they have going on, and their holiday homes in Donegal. But if all that is alright by you then good luck son, we await your Republic built on corruption and back-stabbing.
If the likes of Brendan Hughes, one of many true Republicans ruthlessly used and then dumped by the snake Adams in his pursuit of power, was able to see this, then you have no reason not to. Michael McKevitt did not fall from the clouds either, he was, after all, a long-time veteran.
Still at the crap talk. You sound like a Chinese propaganda sheet from the 1950s. Try to engage in debate, if you want to be taken seriously.
There are many lifelong Republicans, ex prisoners, former hunger strikers and diligent, decent people who have dedicated their lives, at considerable risk in many cases, to the establishment of the Republic, who actively support the Republican Movement's current strategy.
You have yet to answer a single point with anything other than insulting histrionics.
How can you expect to be taken seriously when you come out with,
"I have absolutely no doubt that you know all about what the British love and what qualities they look for in their pet natives."
They love division and internal dissent. Something you seem to be hellbent on creating.
Who benefits from your hysteria?
"They love division and internal dissent. Something you seem to be hellbent on creating."
Your lot dismiss any Republican who opposes their self-destructive folly out of hand, after mouthing off their patronising platitudes, so don't talk down to me about creating division and internal dissent.
Whilst you spend your time insulting anyone you think disagrees with you.
Reminiscent of the attitude of hardline unionists who used the most ridiculous language to describe their political opponents, providing no end of amusement for Republicans who used to bet on which unionist would choke on their own spittle or burst a blood vessel during these tirades.
You seem to be intent on alienating anyone who doesn't follow your philosophy. If you were interested in convincing others that your point of view is valid, I would have thought that reasoned argument would be more effective than childish name calling.
I have to assume, therefore, that you are more interested in creating division than creating unity.
That can only benefit the British.
Wouldn't you agree?
balrog - any new blog coming?
A.n other.
The leadership of the Irish Republican Army is to be congratulated in its Easter message for reminding the arch-traitor McGuinness that he stands to be punished by Irish patriots for his treachery to Ireland and his outstanding loyalty to the British, as well as admitting responsibility for the execution of the traitor Dennis Donaldson, close colleague of Adams and McGuinness. Furthermore, the leadership of the Irish Republican Army is to be commended for reminding the colonial police of their status as fully legitimate targets.
A telling contrast - while the leadership of the Irish Republican Army faithfully reaffirms its loyalty to the Irish Republic with its warning against traitors and the British occupation, the traitor Adams squeals and whines about how true Republicans are causing trouble for his cabal's anti-Republican platform. After all, only the traitor Adams knows what Republicanism is...
An intelligent blog with an intelligent and honest post about Republicanism in this new era. There is a new era of politics in N.Ireland which does not seem to fit with old style views on what is and what is wrong in terms of Republican goals and the best way the acheive them. There is a clear consensus however that the people of N.Ireland no matter what views or background they have want peace.
Someone who sees a friend or a compatriot as a traitor because they choose a peaceful path has to look at themselves and ask whether they are fighting for the cause our themselves.
Excellent post
Daniel
"Someone who sees a friend or a compatriot as a traitor because they choose a peaceful path has to look at themselves and ask whether they are fighting for the cause our themselves."
They are traitors because they are lying scum who have accepted the British occupation and actively support it, not because they have chosen their fraudulent "peace".
Divorce can be very ugly. Who betrayed who? Its quite clear that the leadership of Sinn Fein have used republicanism, they now administer British rule and enjoy power in a partitioned Ireland. Sinn Fein however have not betrayed their loyal membership or their voters. Sinn Feins republicanism is as credible as that of Fianna Fail or the SDLP, infact in political terms Sinn Fein is indistinguishable from them. (At least they have the good grace not to mention socialism anymore)
For ex members of the PRM who left at various stages over the last 10 years to agitate in various groups and forums from local writers clubs, political groups, the blanket, 32csm and eirigi what part of Sinn Feins strategy caught you by surprise.
Just dropped by- Nice one. Good to hear your perspective. Good luck with your country.
Wheres all the money that you so called republicans made during the troubles
Everything OK?
Are you okany mo chara?
Well hasn't this blog gone to the dogs
It's gone down the shitter alright, no new posts for about two months now.
I hope that he comes back. And that he realizes its OK to just make a short post every couple of weeks - it does not have to be all or nothing.
I'm not sure that creating the separate religious blog was a good idea...its damned hard to maintain one blog, forget about two.
Anyway, good luck Chris and all. You never know, I may be stopping by sometime this year.
See Seamus Daly(suspected omagh) got viciously beaten in carrickmacross last night is in a critical condition in hospital http://www.carrickgazette.ie/ind...arrick&
Itemid=3
That is such tired old crap. Why don't you go and murder children again like in Omagh and Warrington? That will achieve loads won't it?
Your photo with the black leather gloves... gosh it's so cool! Wow!
You should put up photos of the kids that your pals killed.
You're validating your self pity with a load of misty-eyed blinkered-visioned claptrap.
You don't need to write your long posts. You just need to realise the difference between right and wrong.
Hate is wrong. Killing is wrong. Hate-mongering is wrong.
I am proud to be Irish - despite the way that hate-peddlers like you sully the nation.
I am just glad that the decent, peace loving Irish people far far outnumber the hate lovers like you.
May you see the light.
ALL YOU SHINNERS HAVE YOUR HEAD THAT FAR UP YOUR ASS YOUR LOOKING OUT YOUR MOUTH
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