Musings from the Bar Stools
Well damn it I will show you Paul I will change it back and you will look like some slimy Yost Lover
;P lol
I hope that was sarcastic.
Hitting Jason Kendall 9th is idiotic. How many times has the pitcher come to the plate with 2 outs and RISP? Too many for my tastes.
As for the playing of young players, he plays them when he has no choice. He stuck with Hardy when he had no other options. He played Weeks when there were no other options. But I remember when Corey Hart was on the time for most of 2006 and Geoff Jenkins was hitting .240 for most of the year and it took until August 10 for Yost to get the bright idea of putting Corey in the lineup. Also, Prince languished on the bench most of 2005 while he stuck with Overbay. Even in September with the Brewers out of the race, he only started Prince in 2 games (one on the last day of the season).
Hitting Jason Kendall 9th is idiotic. How many times has the pitcher come to the plate with 2 outs and RISP? Too many for my tastes.
It's not as simple as that, as you very well know. Whether the pitcher hits 8th or 9th, he will always come up at some point with RSIP. Every simulation says that Kendall's OK OBP but shitty slugging percentage works better at 9. He's a double play waiting to happen.
It won't work all the time, just like having him hit 8th would not work (or fail) all the time. Hitting him 8th produces more runs than it costs.
As for the playing of young players, he plays them when he has no choice. He stuck with Hardy when he had no other options.
You always have other options. Take the Cubs last year under Dustin M. Baker IV. They had the perfectly functional Ronny Cedeno (not great, but has some offensive skill and is pretty good defensively), yet they somehow ended up with Neifi Perez, who is, quite possibly, the worst player in all of MLB. Also, last year, they employed Cezar Izturis.
Surely Yost could have found soem veteran retred to take Hardy's place.
He played Weeks when there were no other options.
There are lots of options for leadoff hitter. Corey Hart, for instance, is probably an attractive option with his speed. Tony Gwynn Jr. is the type of shitty speed guy that many managers would use to lead off.
But I remember when Corey Hart was on the time for most of 2006 and Geoff Jenkins was hitting .240 for most of the year and it took until August 10 for Yost to get the bright idea of putting Corey in the lineup.
Geoff Jenkins 2006 - .271/.357/.434
17 HRs, 26 doubles.
Corey Hart 2006 in 87 games (237 ABs) - .283/.328/.468
9 HR, 13 doubles.
Corey was good, and probably a bit better (although the Jenks OBP makes it very close), but it's not like a slam dunk or anything.
Also, Prince languished on the bench most of 2005 while he stuck with Overbay. Even in September with the Brewers out of the race, he only started Prince in 2 games (one on the last day of the season).
Score one for Al here. There is no reason that this should have happened.
Not "the Cubs last year under Dusty." Instead, "the Cubs last (final) year under Dusty."
I agree with all of these points, but I still think Yost should be fired. , even though I think this year right now is his best performance as a manager. He's making the correct moves and the players aren't performing.
Sometimes rocking the boat just to rock the boat is reason enough.
I still think he should be fired too, I just wanted to get the banner changed.
well then, thank you. Clearly my silent protest wasn't getting it done.
Paul, about your stats comparing Hart to Jenkins in '96.
Yost finally benched Jenkins on August 10 to play Hart. At that time, Jenkins was at .255/.330/.394.
A couple weeks later, another OFer got hurt and Jenkins moved back into the starting lineup. Then he got unbelievably hot to raise his averages to .271/.357/.434. He also had 7 of his 17 homers in September that year.
Score another one for me. 
As for Weeks, I wasn't talking leadoff, I was talking playing him at second base. When they traded Spivey to clear the way for him, there was no other options, he HAD to play him.
My understanding is the Kendall 9th move is not a function of Ned Yost, but the Brewers actually used statisticians to calculate the incremental nuber of runs that moving Kendall to the 9th spot would yield.
A couple weeks later, another OFer got hurt and Jenkins moved back into the starting lineup. Then he got unbelievably hot to raise his averages to .271/.357/.434. He also had 7 of his 17 homers in September that year.
Score another one for me.
How 'bout noooooo.
You don't get to simply discard data because of when it happened (or because you don't like it). Who do you think you are, Ben Stein? So he was extra valuable in September? That's still value.
But second, what you're basically saying is that:
1. Jenkins was shit.
2. Hart entered.
3. Jenkins reentered with shitty stats still in tact.
4. Jenkins and Hart ended up with basically equivalent stats (if you pro-rate).
5. Ergo, over the time period in which both Hart and Jenkins were both playing, Jenkins actually outplayed Hart.
Stats are fun!
About Weeks, you're right [cough]Jeff Cirillo[cough]
Hey, look! I coughed up a utility infielder who played for the Brewers in 2005! And who played 3 games at second that very year! And 12 the next year!
I just wanted to enter the discussion to tell Al to go fuck himself for forgetting about the best Brewer player of the last decade.
Paul, with all due respect, you are putting too much weight on the overall stats. Jenkins was shit for most of '06 with his club going nowhere and a valuable YOUNG replacement languishing on the bench. What value would Jenkins have over Hart in June and July? NONE. Just because a veteran who is on his last legs MIGHT put up the same averages, doesn't mean he's more valuable than a younger player. The younger player needs experience and has to learn to hit major league pitching. The Brewers won 75 games in '06; it's not like they were going anywhere.
As for the "best" Brewers player of the last decade, that would consitute 1999-2008. Hmmm. Cirillo played a grand total 346 games with 160 runs, 334 hits, 22 home runs, 134 RBI and a .316 BA with the Brewers. Ryan Braun almost surpassed that just last year. Fielder, Jenkins, Sheets, Burnitz and Sexson might argue about the best player designation also.
Besides, I always think of Cirillo as a third basemen.
But I just checked out his stats. Using Paul's philosophy, I guess the Brewers would have been better off starting Cirillo at second base every day those 2 years than Weeks.
I was a big Corey Hart fan and thought he should have been up sooner, but I recall being in the minority on that. If memory serves, Corey had only recently converted to outfield from third base and needed some defensive seasoning.
Anyway, I will grant you this. Geoff Jenkins popularity, and Favre-ish-ness, made it unlikely that any young player would take his spot no matter what, which was stupid.
But it was also not as easy a decision as you're making it out to be. Jenkins 2005 was pretty darn good (.292/.375/.513, with 25 dingers) and any manager will be slower to pull the plug on a guy coming off of a good year. Jenkins was shit for a good chunk of that year, but you also have to try and put your best team out there, and based on 2005, Jenkins looked like part of it.
This was not like bringing up Braun to replace a crappy platoon (btw, Melvin deserves some shit for that decision). Hart was a good prospect, but Jenkins had been valuable very recently.
It's not like there were not reasons to be optimistic about Jenkins.
I think he was kidding about Cirillo.
Managers and GMs can always find crappy SSs and second basemen. When you are below the Mendoza line like Hardy was, your job is always in jeopardy.
BEST BREWER OF THE DECADE!!!!
Cirillo's contributions cannot be measured by your insignificant human statistics.
Yeah - 'Rillo has/had grit
Paul: Don't get me started on Melvin. I think he is doing a terrible job. I could detail it, but I only have 75 minutes and I get off work.
He's made one great trade (Lee for Podsednik) and the rest have all been in the negative, IMO.
Also, if he picks someone up off waivers and they have a good year, he'll lavish them with a multi-year contract (Brady Clark, Wes Helms, Derrick Turnbow). (And I know Helms was acquired in a trade, but he could just as well have been a waiver pickup.)
True dat. If it makes you feel any better, I have a friend who was at a hoity-toity party in Milwaukee and managed to loudly and vigorously insult Wes Helms for about 5 minutes in front of Wes Helms's parents. (This friend, obviously, only discovered this after the fact.)
Nice.
Wish I woulda been there.
Me ripping on Wes Helms in Spring Training is one of the things that made Doug Davis' wife scream at me.
Seeing the whole stadium boo Wes Helms on opening day a few years ago was pretty bad ass.
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