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I am not Catholic and have no particular affection for him, but I think it is important to note that though some of his teachings around the issues you mention are very negative, there are also some profoundly progressive social teachings the he strongly promoted that generally don't get much airplay in North America -- things related to opposition to war and a radical vision for economic justice.
In the mid-1980s, in the Canadian city I used to live in, there was a block of progressive city councillors that proposed a notice of motion at one meeting involving some radical, socialist-sounding rhetoric about the rights of workers and the immorality of economic exploitation and so on, without telling anyone what exactly it was. There were some bitter grumblings from some of the more conservative members of council in the press, some of whom were Catholic. A couple of days later, the lefties let it be known that this was, in fact, text lifted directly from a papal encylcical (or similar document) which threw the conservatives into a bit of a quandry about what to do about it. Don't remember, from the version of the story I heard, whether it passed or not at the next meeting but the point they wanted to make in the press had been made and some of the right-wingers had embarassed themselves.
As well, I don't know a lot about the internal politics of the church, but a good friend of mine who is devoutly Catholic (although in the mystical side of its theological tradition, and the progressive side of its politics, and who also happens to be an out lesbian) has a certain affection for JPII, and in past conversation has blamed much of the social conservatism under this pope on Cardinal Ratzinger, one of the senior officials in Rome and a vocal conservative.
Scott Neigh |
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04.02.05 - 11:05 pm | #
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I pretty loathe the Roman Catholic Church. I didn't love the man nor was I "touched" by anything he did. That said, on a human level, I'm glad he is not suffering anymore and may he find peace.
Kat |
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04.02.05 - 11:11 pm | #
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While JPII's lousy record on women, birth control, etc plays huge in my mind, I try to be mindful that he did, at least, openly oppose just about every "policy" George W. put forward.
newswriter |
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04.03.05 - 5:36 am | #
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The thing I object to so much is the quite literal hagiography that is going on. I don't remember anyone saying "oooh, Nixon's dead, better not mention Watergate." People who take to the world stage as spiritual leaders should be held to higher, not lower standards than others. Any discussion of the successes in his life should be balanced by a discussion of his shortcoming; the teflon coating the media places over religious leaders gives them way too much of a free ride.
firedoglake |
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04.03.05 - 3:17 pm | #
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I wrote about this in more detail on my blog, but in short, I'd say that yeah, as a liberal who JP2 would have disagreed with rather strongly, I still had an affection for the man. I mean, you have to keep in mind that he's the only world leader who throughout his reign spoke consistently on behalf of the poor, and as a Catholic leader he did quite a bit to further reconciliation with other religious groups. That's quite positive, in my mind, and it's not something all Popes have felt compelled to do.
I don't agree with much of his theology, but I don't know that now is the time to be overly critical—it doesn't do much good, and it does a lot of bad, IMHO. People want time to mourn and come to terms, and criticism at this juncture is only going to close ears and make the hagiography louder. I'll feel free to speak critically of his legacy on GLBT issues, birth control, and women's issues down the road, when those questions come up. For now, best to learn the positive lessons we can and give people who loved him space.
Chris T |
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04.03.05 - 6:02 pm | #
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I was born and raised Catholic, but left the church in 1986 when I converted to Neo-Paganism. Since my family remains Catholic, though, I've kept up with church teachings. As JP2's reign progressed, I found less and less I could stomach. I'm a woman who's never wanted kids, so apparently, I have no purpose in life. Oh, and watching my (devout Catholic) parents struggle with the issue of birth control, since my mother and baby brother almost died at his birth, didn't help endear the pope to me either.
Since popes don't resign or retire, I've been (inadvertently) hoping he'd leave this vale of tears for the last 18-20 years. Definitely NOT fond of the guy.
Mychelline |
04.04.05 - 10:41 am | #
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