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It seems like those questions ought to be posed to Tom Reynolds and Kirk Fordham right away.

Ok. Go ahead and call' em up.

(Nobody ask will ask....).
Dem-agog | 10.02.06 - 5:12 pm | #

Perfect.
along (AL) | 10.02.06 - 5:15 pm | #

I wonder what KO and TDS will have to say about things this evening?
bamage | 10.02.06 - 5:27 pm | #

And BTW, if Fordham had the IM's doesn't that blow Hastert's "We had the overly friendly emails but not the IMs" shtick right out of the water?
bamage | 10.02.06 - 5:29 pm | #

Does anybody else see those big blue gravatar signs?
bamage | 10.02.06 - 5:31 pm | #

Or have the mushrooms from my lunch burger kicked in?
bamage | 10.02.06 - 5:32 pm | #

Never mind, I refreshed (blinked?), and they're gone.
bamage | 10.02.06 - 5:33 pm | #

Even if Reynolds won't answer questions, someone could just ask Brian Ross (ABC's correspondent who broke the story).
JoshA | 10.02.06 - 5:40 pm | #

Damn, bamage, now I see them too!

Hoo boy, now a story about how the Repukes try to manipulate the media?

Am I in heaven?
sunny | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 5:42 pm | #

So they were going to give ABC an "exclusive" about Foley quitting? How dumb -- first, such a story stops being "exclusive" five seconds after the resignation is announced, and second, just how did they think they were going to explain the resignation of a shoo-in Republican four weeks before the election -- "my life goals have changed"?

No - Foley would have resigned and they were going to about the e-mails and the "inappropriate" contacts. They just would have spared Foley the humiliation of having everyone read those IMs (and spared the GOP the humiliation of letting people know the full extent of Foley's activities).
Glenn Greenwald | 10.02.06 - 5:51 pm | #

Call me cynical but I never got the feeling that ABC was doing anybody any favors here but the GOP and themselves.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 6:03 pm | #

Glenn said,

They just would have spared Foley the humiliation of having everyone read those IMs (and spared the GOP the humiliation of letting people know the full extent of Foley's activities).

They were also putting out feelers for future "cooperation" on this issue and would have used this as a club by threatening to publicly reveal ABC's "willingness."

Some might see this behavior as exactly the same modus operandi that Foley used with pages.
thelastnamechosen | 10.02.06 - 6:17 pm | #

Who needs television? This just gets more and more interesting.
edwin | 10.02.06 - 6:27 pm | #

Read this and tell me which side you'd rather be on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Atwater

This and worse is in store for us.

If you have a weak stomach, just don't read the papers or watch the news. Just vote your conscience on election day, if the GOP let's you get to the polls.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 6:31 pm | #

Michelle Malkin finds GOP to be indefensible.
[the exclamation marks are left as an exercise for the reader]
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006033.htm

What I am hearing from some conservatives inclined to pooh-pooh Foley's behavior and carry on about Barney Frank instead does not sit well with me. You can't possibly read Foley's communications with minors that have been disclosed so far--including his attempts to rendezvous with one--and dismiss them as merely "naughty e-mails." Yet, that's how White House press secretary Tony Snow described some of them this morning. Though he admitted to being too "glib" and "clarified" those remarks with tougher words this afternoon, the damage has been done. Fair or not, it makes the White House look flippant about sexual predation. Parents of all political persuasions are not going to be receptive to that."

George Stephanopoulos called the scandal "a Category Three hurricane" about 12 hours ago. It's bigger than that, now. The levees are collapsing.
sysprog | 10.02.06 - 6:54 pm | #

I for one am quite enjoying this GOP meltdown!

For those of you who haven't heard of it yet, Retreat-ican Bill "Cut-and-Run" Frist thinks we can't beat the Taliban in Afghanistan and they should be included in the Afghan government.
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 7:14 pm | #

Michelle Malkin finds GOP to be indefensible.
[the exclamation marks are left as an exercise for the reader]

Funny!
Baldie McEagle | 10.02.06 - 7:15 pm | #

Michelle Malkin finds GOP to be indefensible.

and Satan went skiing today too.
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 7:19 pm | #

George Stephanopoulos called the scandal "a Category Three hurricane" about 12 hours ago. It's bigger than that, now. The levees are collapsing.

I don't think anyone could have predicted that...
Ish | 10.02.06 - 7:22 pm | #

So when i any body going to ask wheher these page's were ENTRAPPING the congressman. Matt Druge says the page's are NOT INNOCENT of any wrong doing but liberal's won't lookinto whether the "innocent" little kids are really doing the dirty work of the democrat party. Your all hypacrite's!!!
The Major | 10.02.06 - 7:34 pm | #

Amd glenn even says that having sex with a 16 year old individual isn't against the law so maybe you liberals should be more worried about what your OWN democrat politician are doing since it's clear to every one that they are the REAL pedophile's not to mention the sex scandal that is ready to take down one of your own senate candidates.
The Major | 10.02.06 - 7:37 pm | #

You would think Hastert would know better. After all, he only got the speakership because of a Newt Gingrich sex scandal.
stitch | 10.02.06 - 7:39 pm | #

I saw The Major riding a Flying Pig!
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 7:42 pm | #

Major, you crack me up...
Paul X. Werferurizl | 10.02.06 - 7:43 pm | #

No, that was Bob Livingston, not Newt.

But then creepy furtive Republicans all look alike to me...

I believe it was Rebecca West, covering the Nuremburg Trial, who commented that Julius Streicher looked like the sort of guy who gets arrested "for making a nuisance of himself in the park".

Some things never change.
Hedley Lamar | 10.02.06 - 7:44 pm | #

Glenn says:
Article -- "Foley's former chief of staff said the congressman was quitting and that Ross could have that information exclusively if he agreed not to publish the raw, sexually explicit messages."
Glenn -- it means that Tom Reynolds' current Chief of Staff tried to suppress the release of the IMs by ABC and thereby deprive the American public of learning about the extent of Foley's conduct. That is the very definition of "cover-up."

Oh brother. So let me see if I have this straight.... asking a reporter to hold information is suppression, a coverup?
No it is not. It is a request. It is not coercion.
And this.... deprive the American public? What melodrama. But more interesting is this....

Article -- Within two hours, former pages had e-mailed Ross and provided the salacious messages. The only question then, says Ross, was "whether this could be authenticated."
* Has this been authenticated?
* Which are illegal?
* Were the pages at the age of the consent, 16?
* Gerry Studds actually had sex with a 16 year old and was a member in good standing with the Democrats for five re-elections after the fact.
* Why is it OK for a Democrat to actually do it and not for a Republican to talk about it?

This is going to go down as the all time sleaziest negative campaign ever. Congrats Democrats, a new low has been reached. I thought the ad equating Bush with the dragging death of James Byrd was as bad as it gets. Sadly it is not.
shooter242 | 10.02.06 - 8:02 pm | #

For what it's worth, my post and my decision had nothing to do with Frist's remarks. For me, it's all about Bush & Rummy and the bungled war in Iraq.

Allahpundit and Ace made that connection.
The Commissar

As a true conservative, you should realize the utter absurdity of this whole lurid affair. What two consenting parties choose to do is their own damn business. This should never have happened to Clinton. This is a different matter entirely but the true abomination is what van Creveld has called the greatest military blunder since Augustus lost the Roman legions into Germania in 9 AD. Whatever it takes to get your vote, I'm fine with it.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 8:03 pm | #

This is going to go down as the all time sleaziest negative campaign ever. Congrats Democrats, a new low has been reached. I thought the ad equating Bush with the dragging death of James Byrd was as bad as it gets. Sadly it is not.
shooter242

You ain't seen nothing yet. The cool thing is we get to use your own dirt.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 8:06 pm | #

Shooter,

Do you work for Netvocates or some other group? GOP? RNC?
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 8:08 pm | #

This whole matter shows the complete intellectual bankruptcy of the Democrapic Establishment. The whole Foley affair is a sordid sideshow which has nothing to do with the life and death issues facing our country. The real issue is the proposed treasonous surrender of the Democraps to our mortal enemies. The American people will see through this sham and send the Democraps packing in November.

Don't you realize that you always give away your identity whenever you leave a comment, because you're incapable of writing a single sentence without fearfully warning us - like Chicken Little - that nothing else matters other than "our mortal enemies" -- a phrase that you have failed to exclude from a single comment you've written here over the last 8 months?
Glenn Greenwald | 10.02.06 - 8:09 pm | #

anonymous | 10.02.06 - 7:59 pm = concern troll
Paul X. Werferurizl | 10.02.06 - 8:13 pm | #

Viguerie on CNN now calling for resignation of all involved in covering this up.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 8:13 pm | #

This is stunning.

Glenn, you may want to get this transcript of Viguerie on CNN just now.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 8:14 pm | #

bamage-- The fact that a person working in the House was speaking to ABC for the purpose of offering them an "exclusive" on the resignation of Foley if ABC would agree to not make public the graphic IMs does not, by itself, demonstrate that Hastert and others outside of Foley's office had knowledge of the IMs. But it does indicate that someone working in the House besides Foley was aware of the IMs before ABC made them public. And if that "someone" had been working outside of Foley's office only a short time before the phone call to ABC, that looks bad, really bad. It is not absolute proof of prior knowledge by third parties in the House, but is sure is "odiferous." I'd also like to know if Ross mentioned the IMs in the conversation with whoever spoke to him before that person raised the topic of a cover up. In other words, it is important to show that whoever spoke to Ross on behalf of Foley did not learn anything from Ross about the IMs. It is possible that Ross called Foley's office in an effort to "authenticate" the IMs, in which case it is possible that whoever spoke to Ross first learned of the IMs from Ross. That having been said, the effort at a coverup does not strike me as something that someone speaking on behalf of Foley would attempt on the spur of the moment, just after learning about the IMs from Ross. (Sort of makes you wonder if similar cover ups have been done/attempted in the last few years.) Add Ross to the list of people to whom the investigators need to speak.
Don de Drain | 10.02.06 - 8:16 pm | #

This forum is frequented by a poster named “Bart.” Visitors to this forum should understand the following about Bart:

Bart has no interest in understanding you. Bart will only read your words to see if he can somehow twist them to his purposes.

Bart will pretend that he is open to honest debate and has pure intentions. Bart lies. Bart has no regard for facts or logical argument.

Bart is a bully and coward. Bart will bludgeon other posters with harsh rhetoric and flawed arguments and proclaim victory on the basis of having shouted the loudest. When called on it, Bart will claim that he is the victim of injustice.

Bart never apologizes and sees such actions as a sign of weakness. Do not apologize to Bart.

Bart has no sense of humor. Irony and sarcasm are wasted on Bart.

Bart is only useful as the target of ridicule for his intellectual superiors. Happily, he is marvelously effective in this capacity. Bart should be mocked and ridiculed at every opportunity. There is no need to address the substance of his remarks. (There isn’t any.)

In his youth, Bart dreamed of becoming a journalist, but his poor academic performance and weak moral character left him to an increasingly tragic career in prostitution. Happily for Bart, the current administration cannot tell the difference between journalism and prostitution. Bart now makes a living wage as a paid sock puppet of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy.

Remember, when Bart smiles, the terrorists win.

This has been a public service announcement by Concerned Citizens for Truth and Justice.
CCTJ | 10.02.06 - 8:18 pm | #

Just goes to show you the Republicans will do just about _anything_ to keep the Iraq war off the front page.

Verily, verily.
Pastor Rod Flash | 10.02.06 - 8:20 pm | #

9/11 Commission saw the 'scary' briefing of 2001

WASHINGTON - The independent Sept. 11, 2001, commission was given the same “scary” briefing about an imminent al Qaida attack on a U.S. target that was presented to the White House two months before the attacks, but failed to disclose the warning in its 428-page report.
thelastnamechosen | 10.02.06 - 8:25 pm | #

lol, now THAT was a concern troll, lol.
euphronius, space pirate | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 8:26 pm | #

Et tu, Human Events?
http://humanevents.com/article.php?id=17337
Conservatives Call on Hastert to Resign
sysprog | 10.02.06 - 8:31 pm | #

What I think isn't often discussed--which is understandable given how much else there is to discuss these days that is of a more immediate nature--is how, or at least whether, and to what extent, the fundamental national paradigm with respect to how Americans view Republicans versus Democrats is almost certainly shifting away from favoring Republicans. Given all the scandals and failures of the Bush administration and its lapdog do-nothing GOP congress, I can't imagine that this hasn't been happening.

The real question is whether it is also shifting towards favoring Democrats instead. I'm not at all convinced that this is happening, yet. Instead, I think that we're entering dangerous territory, where the country is giving up on the GOP, but not yet ready to view Democrats as the logical and acceptable replacement for it. It is dangerous because who knows what might happen in such a vacuum of trust and perception.

If Democrats don't quickly and convincingly step into this breach, it may well make it possible for a "kinder and gentler" GOP that has supposedly rid itself of its more incompetent and corrupt elements to retake its place at the top of the American political food chain.

I don't think that this is necessarily a super-urgent danger. But if Democrats--who appear poised to retake congress and hand Bush is ass--don't reassert themselves decisively and get Americans to once again view them as trustworthy and strong over the next year or so, I'm afraid that we might well see a resurgent GOP in '08, and we'll be back in the mess that we've been in these past years.

Still, it's inconceivable that the country isn't all but ready to give up on the GOP right now, not just in terms of present competence, but in terms of its 25+ year myth of being the stronger, more responsible, more competent and most of all more "American" party. And this cannot be a bad thing for Democrats. They just have to move quickly to step into the breach left by this, and not allow a re-tooled GOP to regain this trust and preeminence in Americans' eyes.
Kovie | 10.02.06 - 8:32 pm | #

BREAKING: Cong. Tom Reynolds' (R-NY) chief of staff tried to get ABC to cover-up evidence of Foley predatory sex chat

It's confirmed. Congressman Tom Reynolds' (R-NY) chief of staff, Kirk Fordham, tried to broker a secret deal last Friday to get ABC News to cover up the worst part of the Foley child predator scandal, the lurid five-plus-page instant message chat in which Foley asked a child to measure his penis and then led the child into a detailed discussion of masturbatory techniques.
thelastnamechosen | 10.02.06 - 8:33 pm | #

mmmm... schadenfreude!
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 8:34 pm | #

Listening to Viguerie just now on CNN, he was on the phone, it could have been Glenn, even Atrios or Aravosis, even someone from Think Progress speaking. I couldn't believe my ears. That was not the Richard Viguerie I know.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 8:38 pm | #

I know I've got my tin-foil hat on so tight that its cutting of my circulation but these are the stories that everyone is ignoring while this is going down....

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/ne...m9rM& refer=home

State Department Confirms Rice Met With Tenet on Terror Threat

By Judy Mathewson

Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) -- The State Department confirmed that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice met with Central Intelligence Agency Director George Tenet about the threat posed by al-Qaeda two months before the Sept. 11 attacks.

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack disputed the characterization of the meeting in the book ``State of Denial'' by journalist Bob Woodward, saying the information Rice got ``was not new'' and didn't amount to an urgent warning.

``Rather, it was a good summary from the threat-reporting from the previous several weeks,'' McCormack said in a statement from Saudi Arabia where Rice is traveling.

.S. anti-terrorism law seen hampering refugee work
Reuters
Monday, October 2, 2006; 1:09 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp...6100200539.html

GENEVA (Reuters) - Refugees in need of protection are being prevented from gaining asylum in the United States by an anti-terrorism law that was not deliberately aimed at them, a senior U.S. official said on Monday.

Oh and

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/ ent...tent_700976.htm

George Michael arrested for possessing cannabis
(Daily Mail)
Updated: 2006-10-02 09:41

George Michael was arrested on Sunday for possessing cannabis after being found slumped at the wheel of hiscar for the second time this year.
Paul Dirks | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 8:45 pm | #

2nd to last paragraph in the main post:

Kirk appears "Krik"

Great post, though.
lowellfield | 10.02.06 - 8:48 pm | #

oh Scooter, as we have explained before its illegal to do these activities over the internet until after age 18. I know its hard for you to follow along but please try. Either that or you can go take your Thorazine.
druidbros | 10.02.06 - 8:51 pm | #

Bart never apologizes and sees such actions as a sign of weakness. Do not apologize to Bart.

Do not taunt Happy Fun Bart. :)
blueperiod | 10.02.06 - 8:52 pm | #

A Malkin poster said something to the extent that Washington was in badly need of an enema, I couldn't help thinking how much we're going to miss Shooter, Bart and Daleyrocks when that happens.
brainfaht | 10.02.06 - 9:01 pm | #

For me, it's all about Bush & Rummy and the bungled war in Iraq.

I sincerely hope we learn a foreign policy lesson from this. Democracies cannot be forced upon a country, they have to freely and genuinely grow from the people. The best way to support democracy around the world is not by brinksmanship and "Realpolitik" that's not really from the real world. We it's by supporting small-scale entrepreneurship and freedom of speech. People will want democracy when they see it is in their interest.

They haven't even seen a hint of it yet!
prunes | 10.02.06 - 9:03 pm | #

bart has seemingly disappeared.

How about that.
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 9:05 pm | #

he must be investigating how CREW hacked into GOP computers to get the Foley IM's.

Yep, I'll bet that's it.
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 9:05 pm | #

I just want to make sure I have one thing straight.

The subsequent "explicit" emails have not been verified yet. They were forwarded over the Internet to ABC by still unauthenticated sources once the story had broken.

Is that correct?

Also, forgetting about everything else, sparing Foley further humiliation would, imo, have been a good thing. I am not into humiliating other people and do not enjoy seeing others take such delight in it. It reminds me of John Yoo, Albert Gonzales and especially Cheney, perverts all.

Humiliation, degradation, rubbing people's faces in their shame, have little in common, in my opinion, with being held accountable under the law.

I am not denying there are other aspects to this story, including and especially the cover-up attempts by the Republicans, which seems to be their modus operendi during this runaway crime spree.

But if the explicit emails pre-dated two months ago when the new law went into effect, then no laws were broken in my opinion (retroactive laws are too laughable and Kafkaesque for me to take seriously) and I believe it is acceptable that Foley would try to spare himself and his family the further humiliation of seeing the gory details carried in the National Enquirer, so to speak. I would imagine if anyone on this blog were in his position, they would feel that same way too.

The climate of corruption in Washington that allows programs like this page travesty to exist in the first place is what really bothers me.

Once you've reached that level of cynicism and hypocrisy, little of the ensuing details really bother me that much. What did people expect when they set up programs like that?

I am not surprised at all this "I'm shocked, shocked" sudden burst of "conscience" from the moral majority which appears now to have enlisted members from both parties and then some.

"Live boy, dead girl" will incite them to riot every time. Well, maybe not the dead girl....
.
Eyes Wide Open | 10.02.06 - 9:06 pm | #

EWO - Mark Foley spent the last 10 years in Congress doing very little other than passing more and more laws increasing the prison terms of "internet sex offenders" from 10 to 20 to 30 years mandatory minimum (for people he called "sickos"), while his party called anyone who opposed those laws protectors of pedophiles.

They have won election after election portraying themselves as defenders of children and upstanding moral values, while branding their political opponents as secular freaks and hedonists and imprisoning people for engaging in conduct that hurts nobody but that they dislike.

If you don't think it's relevant that these same people - with Mark Foley often leading the charge - were engaging in and helping to facilitate the very behavior that they so publicy decry and for which they imprison their fellow citiznes for decades, all for some cheap political gain, then we're never going to agree about this.

This is NOT about trying to impose personal moral standards on other people. It is, instead, a demand that the standards which have been imposed on us by the people who rule this country be applied equally, including to them, when they violate those very rules.
Glenn Greenwald | 10.02.06 - 9:11 pm | #

a.nonymous:

Listening to Viguerie just now on CNN, he was on the phone, it could have been Glenn, even Atrios or Aravosis, even someone from Think Progress speaking. I couldn't believe my ears. That was not the Richard Viguerie I know.

RIchard Viguerie has been less than satisfied with the Dubya maladministration and the Republicans in his thrall for a while now. This latest might just be the straw that broke the camel's back....

Cheers,
Arne Langsetmo | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 9:15 pm | #

So based in Kurtz, it was other ex-pages who had been sitting on the IMs until a few days ago? So is it these kids whom Hastert wants the justice department to investigate? Or does he think for some reason that someone else had the IMs? Or is it just bs to buy time, and not really part of a pushback strategy?
Miller | 10.02.06 - 9:17 pm | #

John Gibson throws Hastert and Boehner under the bus.

ps
Somebody tell fox that picture of Gibson is so big I can tell what kind of soap he uses.
thelastnamechosen | 10.02.06 - 9:17 pm | #

Do not taunt Happy Fun Bart. :)
blueperiod

SNL skit. I love it.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 9:17 pm | #

[Based "on"]
Miller | 10.02.06 - 9:18 pm | #

The latest news I hear is of the large number of former pages that are contacting authorities about their own congressional experiences.It is possible that this problem could become "our" problem, I wouldn't show too much hubris until this thing has completely vetted.

Brianfaht - I'm sure this will happen, but it will only matter if leadership helped conceal it. If this had been just a story about Foley, it would have been over after one day.

The scandal is the cover-up, not the mere bad behavior by one Congressman.
Glenn Greenwald | 10.02.06 - 9:20 pm | #

The subsequent "explicit" emails have not been verified yet. They were forwarded over the Internet to ABC by still unauthenticated sources once the story had broken.

ABC wouldn't have run with the IM's (not e-mails) if they hadn't been authenticated. We can thank Dan Rather for that.
Anonymous | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 9:20 pm | #

gee..I've never been an anonymous before....
Paul Dirks | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 9:21 pm | #

RIchard Viguerie has been less than satisfied with the Dubya maladministration and the Republicans in his thrall for a while now. This latest might just be the straw that broke the camel's back....

Cheers,
Arne Langsetmo

Being a real conservative, I can see how he would. It was just completely free of any equivocation and "faux balance" like I just heard in Scarborough's rant, which was damning enough. Viguerie made no attacks on Democrats. I found it refreshing. Of course he doesn't have an audience to play to like Regular Joe.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 9:23 pm | #

Concern Troll said: The latest news I hear is of the large number of former pages that are contacting authorities about their own congressional experiences.It is possible that this problem could become "our" problem, I wouldn't show too much hubris until this thing has completely vetted.
brainfaht

How trollishly fascinating. How is the fact that the GOP leadership actively covered up for Foley "our" problem? Unless the Dem leadership did likewise, then what's the problem?
Paul X. Werferurizl | 10.02.06 - 9:24 pm | #

Brianfaht - I'm sure this will happen, but it will only matter if leadership helped conceal it. If this had been just a story about Foley, it would have been over after one day.

The scandal is the cover-up, not the mere bad behavior by one Congressman.
Glenn Greenwald

And we can deal with that in the proper and appropriate manner if we have to cross that bridge. To fear something like that and use it as an excusde for inaction or weakness is ludicrous. Glenn is right. And if we have a dysfunctional Democratic party, we need to fix that too. One step at a time, folks.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 9:26 pm | #

Ah, I understand the strategy better now thanks to digby:

"Fineman is not getting it on Hardball. He thinks that Hastert, by asking the FBI and the Florida authorities to look into these IMs, is going to provoke the kids who had them to come forward. That is not what Hastert's doing at all. He's trying to get the FBI to track the kids down and tell them NOT to come forward or comment "while the investigation is ongoing." I wouldn't be surprised if Alberto Gonzales himself advised him to do it. As I said, I don't think it's containable, but they are going to try to do what they can."
Miller | 10.02.06 - 9:27 pm | #

Paul X. Werferurizl,

I don't think brainfaht is a troll. He's been around for some time. It's not your fault. It's wise to be suspicious because putting plants on influential blogs like this is SOP for them.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 9:32 pm | #

I'm with Drudge. I wouldn't mind seeing an investigation into these pages. That's a story I could really get into.

Througout the ages, there's been much less written about the early stages of Faustian bargains with the Devil than about the later stages when the soul selling gets into full swing.

So from strictly a scholarly point of view, I wouldn't mind looking more closely through a microscope to see the mechanisms by which the worm first turns.

BTW, I would advise anyone who wakes up and looks at the pillow next to his and notices that it is Michelle Malkin's head which is sleeping on it, you might consider there's a problem.
.
Eyes Wide Open | 10.02.06 - 9:34 pm | #

If anyone needs a gig, Netvocates is hiring.

http://www.netvocates.com/jobs.htm
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 9:35 pm | #

I don't think brainfaht is a troll. He's been around for some time. It's not your fault. It's wise to be suspicious because putting plants on influential blogs like this is SOP for them.
a. nonymous

If I'm mistaken, then I apologize. But I've seen the same type of faux concern so often it's tough to not be suspicious.
Paul X. Werferurizl | 10.02.06 - 9:35 pm | #

I'm with Drudge. I wouldn't mind seeing an investigation into these pages. That's a story I could really get into.

EWO,

Was that snark?
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 9:35 pm | #

Looks like the major ran out of Thorazine.
AJ | 10.02.06 - 9:36 pm | #

If I'm mistaken, then I apologize. But I've seen the same type of faux concern so often it's tough to not be suspicious.
Paul X. Werferurizl

No big thing. It's not easy to spot them or flush them out. Most are just volunteers.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 9:37 pm | #

We should get a plant inside Netvocates on their payroll.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 9:39 pm | #

Ex-page says he saw suggestive e-mails

Patrick McDonald, 21, now a senior at Ohio State University, said he eventually learned of "three or four" pages from his 2001-2002 class who were sent such messages.

My guess is the total is going to be 20 or more pages and that more than one complained. This story is just getting started. If Foley ever sent pages sexual pictures of himself and those leak out, this story will still be going in 2008.
thelastnamechosen | 10.02.06 - 9:40 pm | #

I actually think the best thing that could happen for Republicans would for Hastert to resign sooner rather than later

agreed. It should happen this week and it probably will.

On the other hand, I hope he drags it out into at least next week...
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 9:46 pm | #

If Molière (1622-1673) were alive, he could demand royalties from the GOP for their adaptation of his play.
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/LitNote/id- 128,pageNum-32.html
In various editions of the play, Tartuffe is called “The Impostor” or “The Hypocrite.” He is a superb scoundrel who can don any pose and become a master of it. As a religious ascetic, he convinces Orgon and Madame Pernelle that he is a devoutly pious and humble man; his obvious hypocrisy, however, is apparent to the reader and to the audience.

Tartuffe’s superiority lies in the fact that he can accurately analyze the weaknesses of his victims and then exploit these flaws for his own advantage. He is no simple or ignorant charlatan; instead, he is an alert and adept hypocrite who uses every means to bring about his success.

Molière humanizes Tartuffe by endowing him with one other flaw. His eventual downfall is caused by his lust. Instead of making Tartuffe into an inhuman monster, Molière shows how lust causes the clever hypocrite to lower his mask and reveal his hypocrisy.
sysprog | 10.02.06 - 9:46 pm | #

Right now I'm more concerned about the November election than I am about any investigation. Should Democrats be revealed as just as complicit as Republicans in this matter would certainly have to have a negative election influence.
Republicans are on the run, I just don't want to see anything happen that would give them any bouyancy until the election cycle is finished.
This scandal has legs of its own and my own wishful thinking isn't going to matter a bit. My owm pessimism has unfortunately seen too many squandered opportunities by the Democratic Party.
brainfaht | 10.02.06 - 9:47 pm | #

Mark my words: Republicans will comfortably hold on to Foley's seat in Florida. His Democrapic opponent is a liberal nobody completely bereft of any ideas which bear any connection to the voters in his district. On the other hand you lib losers should get used to the idea of Congressman Joe Negron.
anonymous

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

yeah I'm sure all those Palm Beach Republicans are dying to vote for Mark Foley, which they'll have to do even after the GOP picks a pinch runner....
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 9:47 pm | #

Mark my words: Republicans will comfortably hold on to Foley's seat in Florida.

consider it done.

See you back here in five weeks. Save up your appetite, you're going to have a lot of crow to eat.
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 9:48 pm | #

It seems like a safe bet that while the top level of the GOP House leadership is focused on saving themselves, the next level down is focused on which new jobs will be up for grabs.

does that mean we'll see some backstabbing as the candidates for those new jobs work on hastening Hastert/Reynolds/Boehner's departure?

I love it when Rethugs devour their own.
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 9:51 pm | #

I don't think Reynolds' involvement in this will go down well here in Western New York. His race with Democrat, Jack Davis, is close:

SurveyUSA 9/15-27 (Murphy's candidacy has since been ruled invalid)
Jack Davis (D): 43
Tom Reynolds (R-Inc): 45
Christine Murphy (G): 8
Undecided: 4

I e-mailed all the news outlets here with Aravosis' latest post.

Wish us luck.
ej | 10.02.06 - 9:51 pm | #

RENATO - On the other hand, I hope he drags it out into at least next week...

I agree, although as I indicated, the story would continue anew if Boehner tried, as he almost certain would, to ascend to the Speaker Chair. Then the games could begin anew, this time with Boehner at the center (and there would likely be several rivals for the throne trying to undo him with all sorts of leaks).

Based on that interview I saw of him, it looks to me like Hastert almost wants to quit. He looked very fatigued and worn down.
Glenn Greenwald | 10.02.06 - 9:53 pm | #

Oops, typo: that should be 9/25-27.
ej | 10.02.06 - 9:55 pm | #

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Thanks for the tip, a.nonymous. This certainly resembles what our hairy little friends are doing. I would guess that most of Netvocate's clients are corporate and Hill rats do the political stuff, but somebody is paying good money . . .
Baldie McEagle | 10.02.06 - 9:56 pm | #

Should Democrats be revealed as just as complicit as Republicans in this matter would certainly have to have a negative election influence.

On what is this based? You could say the same thing about any Republican scandal, that is, we should worry that "Democrats be revealed as just as complicit". This is overly cautious and just plain nonsense. The Republican leadership has royally screwed--they should be pounced upon
Paul X. Werferurizl | 10.02.06 - 10:01 pm | #

If you don't think it's relevant that these same people - with Mark Foley often leading the charge - were engaging in and helping to facilitate the very behavior that they so publicy decry and for which they imprison their fellow citiznes for decades, all for some cheap political gain, then we're never going to agree about this.

If the above statement is true, Glenn, then obviously I would agree with it.

However, correct me if I am wrong, I thought those laws were about sexual abuse of children. Meaning, children.

Although I am not one overly in favor of laws, the two sets of laws I could most easily digest are laws which punish animal abusers and child abusers as they are the most defenseless members of society.

Isn't it possible you are wrong that Mark Foley participated in the drafting of some of the laws which protect little kids from being exploited and abused all for some cheap political gain ?

Do we have to eliminate the possibility that he is okay with Internet exchanges such as the ones in which he is alleged to have engaged yet still honestly horrified by child abuse and child pornography and was earnest in his attempts to curtail it?

I admit I'd have to read all the laws he drafted to see if any of them are offensive. I haven't done that yet so maybe I am speaking from ignorance.

But other than the recent July 2006 law, were any of the others not about children being actually abused or forced to participate in child pornography?

Additionally, the pages in question are hardly representive of average 16 year olds, I would think. They are far more cynical, worldly, and eager to apply for entry in a corrupt program just to advance their careers.

So if they fall on the wire age- wise, would that make Mark Foley a totally corrupt politician whose concern for children being exploited was insincere?

As for the others, as stated, I readily agree with you. I limit my remarks to Mark Foley himself.
.
Eyes Wide Open | 10.02.06 - 10:02 pm | #

A big part of Republican campaign strategy is flying Republican kids in to campaign districts to canvas for Republican politicians. If I were a Republican parent, I would be really nervous right now about how safe my kid would be doing this.

It's gonna hurt the Republican strategy, I think.
donna | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 10:06 pm | #

Over at CNN, Tony Snow says to Soledad O'Brien:

"Look, I hate to tell you, but it's not always pretty up there on Capitol Hill and there have been other scandals as you know that have been more than simply naughty e-mails. You know look, again, I'll reiterate my point. I think it's important to protect these kids and make sure that they have a good experience and like you, I want to find out what happened. But before we prosecute let's figure out what all the facts are. That's probably the most important thing to do is to be fair to all parties."

Tony's right. And the best way to "figure out all the facts" undoubtedly is for us to torture Hastert, Boehner, Reynolds, Fordham, and, of course, Foley himself.

What, you wanna coddle a bunch of child predators and their defenders?

Hell, I'd almost like to be there myself, if only to be the one who shouts out, "Squeal, Denny, Squeal!"
John Gabriel | 10.02.06 - 10:10 pm | #

However, correct me if I am wrong, I thought those laws were about sexual abuse of children. Meaning, children.

The laws Foley spearheaded and co-sponsored defined "minor" as anyone under 18.

Do we have to eliminate the possibility that he is okay with Internet exchanges such as the ones in which he is alleged to have engaged yet still honestly horrified by child abuse and child pornography and was earnest in his attempts to curtail it?

I could accept that premise if the laws he championed made those distinctions. They don't. I'll bet you there are people sitting in prison for many years for having sexual relations with even those in their mid-to-later-teens (15-17) because of laws Mark Foley passed.

And the laws he advocated are so punitive - even for sex crimes involving purely internet images of child pornography (i.e., no in person sex), some of his bill increased MANDATORY sentences to 20 years in a federal prison.

Additionally, the pages in question are hardly representive of average 16 year olds, I would think. They are far more cynical, worldly, and eager to apply for entry in a corrupt program just to advance their careers.

I have been reading what you've been writing about pages, and your cynicism certainly applies to some, perhaps many. But some of these kids really are just from very small towns who don't know much about the world, are away from home for the very first time, and - in the case of some of them - did not want this attention and felt uncomfortable as a result.

It's true that some were willing participants. Some might have even manipualted the situation for personal gain. But it's hardly beyond the realm of possiblity - in fact, I'd say it's quite likely - that in a group of large numbers of 16-year-olds, some are going to be extremely immature, naive and vulnerable. And Mark Foley knows that. It's his status as Congressman - and nothing else - that enables him to command the sexual interest of kids that age.
Glenn Greenwald | 10.02.06 - 10:10 pm | #

Shoot, Baldie.

I thought everyone knew about that. It's not just some internet rumor. Glad to be of help. :)
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:10 pm | #

EWO,

Before "tough on terrists" it was "tough on crime". It's the first play in every politician's playbook. And they are often busted for some crime themselves sooner than later.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:13 pm | #

I thought those laws were about sexual abuse of children. Meaning, children.

Need I point out again that the whole point of passing the laws in question is to parley fear to your advantage. While a typical 16 year old may feel comfortable with deciding whether and with whom to have sex, the same topic scares their parents to death.

And in general it's frightened parents who drive lawmakers agendas.
Paul Dirks | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 10:13 pm | #

why the hell is the discussion anout the wisdom of strict liability for sex with people under 18?
euphronius, space pirate | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 10:16 pm | #

remember when Newt had to resign during the Clinton impeachment, and how hard the GOP had to look for a senior House member who did not have a past or present problem with cheating on his wife?

That took a few weeks to work itself out. With any luck, they'll be dicking around finding a replacement for Hastert well into October.
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 10:17 pm | #

Ah yes, let's blame the pages, shall we? After all, those same conservatives who are doing so did blame Monica for coming on to Clinton, didn't they? (BTW, that was adultery, pure and simple, but it was also two consenting adults who did not violate any laws making solicitation of a minor a federal offense, right?) The fact is that, to any reasonable person who reads thse emails, Foley was clearly and aggressively coming on strong to impressionable young men.

The whole tactic of blaming the pages is a calculated attempt to shift blame. But it won't work with middle America. I'm a parent, and if it were my kid, I'd be looking for a certain politican's head on a platter, and those who enabled and protected him.
Retrogrouch | 10.02.06 - 10:18 pm | #

If a Democrat is discovered to be doing the same thing that we are trying to beat up Republicans for, we lose the cudgel. It will slow the momentum that this scandal has wrought and any attempt to look righteous will be lost. That is why we don't need the complication of complicity.
Republicans will stay home in November if its just their party caught doing these shenanigans, and I can't imagine Democrats getting fired up about voting either should something come out.
This investigation has a long way to go and Democrats are not normally the perverts that Republican are, but this is absolutely an important consideration and we do not need the complication.
brainfaht | 10.02.06 - 10:18 pm | #

it is unliekly that dems are involved as they would not have the security of knowing the leadership would cover up any "embarrassing" issues as long as his or her pac gave $$$$ to the party.
euphronius, space pirate | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 10:20 pm | #

brainfaht,

I hear what you are saying. I think we have to take the risk, and truth be told, this thing is way beyond our control at this time. We are just along for the ride. Like I said, most are out and proud, as they should be. First rule of espionage. You can't blackmail an out and proud homosexual.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:21 pm | #

Besides, Joe Lieberman is a Senator.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:23 pm | #

The laws Foley spearheaded and co-sponsored defined "minor" as anyone under 18.

Prior to 2006? OK, I misunderstood that. I thought it was 16 until then.

Obviously 18 is totally preposterous (16 is preposterous too but I suppose if the drafters had made it 14, someone would have threatened Ruth Bader Ginsberg's life) and those people languishing in jail were violated by that law, which I hope is overturned so they can be released.

If Foley is responsible for them being there, I condemn him.

But I limit my outrage to the immoral law and the people victimized by it. I am less upset by hypocrisy than actual immoral laws.

Do you object to the laws themselves, Glenn? Or only to the hypocrisy?

I just heard on TV that there are new emails in which Foley is attempting to set up actual meetings. If so, that would certainly change things.

Here's a question: What's with the "54" in his email name? That number does seem to be around quite a bit lately, n'est ce pas?
.
Eyes Wide Open | 10.02.06 - 10:24 pm | #

Should Democrats be revealed as just as complicit as Republicans in this matter would certainly have to have a negative election influence.

As well it should.

I think its clear that if you are concerned about doing the right thing as opposed to political expedience the the political expedience will take care of itself.
Paul Dirks | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 10:24 pm | #

then the..
Paul Dirks | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 10:25 pm | #

Wow, talk about bad timing.
Chgu | 10.02.06 - 10:26 pm | #

EWO, does the sexual harrasment bother you at all?
euphronius, space pirate | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 10:27 pm | #

Fineman said something on the tube today. I've had a very strong beer and can't remember, but it's not about the "cudgel" so much, it's that the GOP is in full on defensive mode for the first time in years. I will try and catch it if they replay. I think it was on Hardball. Don't worry so much about the choice of weapon here. It's actually the one they chose, and they are the ones on defense.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:28 pm | #

54 was his age at the time he opened that AOL account.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:28 pm | #

yes a.non, the gop are in the proverbial Rove victim state.

they are forced to deny that they are all perverts, crminals and pedophiles.
euphronius, space pirate | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 10:29 pm | #

you can bet the GOP is digging hard to find a Dem who's been chasing the pages.

Or even a rumor about a Dem who's been chasing pages.

let's hope they come up with nothing or the Dems will look as bad as the Rethugs...
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 10:30 pm | #

Glenn, about painting all the pages with one brush, I take your point.

It's sometimes hard when talking about a particular group or other (pages, Republicans, Christian fundamentalists) to remember to distinguish between defining characteristics of that group and particular traits of individual members.

But one should do that, so I'll write "most" or "many" from now on.
.
Eyes Wide Open | 10.02.06 - 10:31 pm | #

I'm guessing 54 was his age at the time he created that screen name and e-mail account for his "naughty e-mails". He's probably had the account for some time.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:31 pm | #

they are forced to deny that they are all perverts, crminals and pedophiles.
euphronius, space pirate

Thank you! Pretty much what Fineman was saying. I'm celebrating.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:32 pm | #

let's hope they come up with nothing or the Dems will look as bad as the Rethugs...
r€nato

Considering how we've been cast in the last few years, that's progress.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:34 pm | #

Do you object to the laws themselves, Glenn? Or only to the hypocrisy?

Both - it is beyond stupid to make 18 the age of consent (both in its own right and because many, I think most, states have it at 16 - and historically it was even lower). And I find those laws that impose minimum mandatory sentences - which away discretion from judges - to be outrageous. There are literally people who have been sentenced to 30 or 40 years in prison - no chance of parole - for nothing other than viewing and downloading images of child pornography. Should that be a crime? Yes. Should people have basically their whole lives extinguished with a 40 year prison term for doing nothing but viewing it (not being involved in any way in its production)? That is grotesque.

But those are the laws Mark Foley decided to devote his whole Congressional career to. A psychologist could spend a lifetime writing about why that is. Ordinarily, I would find Foley a pitiful figure (read the Scarborough story about how shocked he was at the very idea that the Bush/Rove team would try to drive him out of the Senate primary because he's gay - which his exactly what they ended up doing). But he vented his own personal demons in ways that brought a lot of suffering to a lot of people and I don't feel a molecule of sympathy for him for that reason.
Glenn Greenwald | 10.02.06 - 10:34 pm | #

Correction: He was born in '54.

I'm older than that guy? He don't look to good.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:36 pm | #

Glenn,

I wish you would do an expanded post on that last comment. People need to read and comprehend what you just said.

No crime like a bad law.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:38 pm | #

Someday. After the election.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:39 pm | #

My pessimism sometimes overtakes me I apologize if its rattled some cages.
I don't think we'll find any Democrats at the bottom of this.
This is much more the feeding ground of Conservatives, priests and ministers and Democrats are more likely to find other places to play.
brainfaht | 10.02.06 - 10:39 pm | #

Don't know how accurate this is.

Age of consent around the world and US:

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:42 pm | #

And I find those laws that impose minimum mandatory sentences - which away discretion from judges - to be outrageous. There are literally people who have been sentenced to 30 or 40 years in prison - no chance of parole - for nothing other than viewing and downloading images of child pornography. Should that be a crime? Yes. Should people have basically their whole lives extinguished with a 40 year prison term for doing nothing but viewing it (not being involved in any way in its production)? That is grotesque.

Glenn, beyond the extraordinarly harsh sentences, there's also the fact that prosecutors can (and often do) use the bludgeon of the threat of a 20, 30 or 40 year sentence to wring a plea bargain from a defendant.

So, regardless of your actual guilt or innocence, you can find yourself taking an enormous roll of the dice on a jury trial, which will virtually bankrupt you in attorney's fees, will expose you to publicity which will likely make your life a living hell, and that's the best case scenario.

The worst case scenario is you get convicted on top of that.

Or, you take the plea - again, even if you are innocent - and 'get off lightly' with perhaps a short prison term or maybe even probation... but also with a felony conviction which will make you unemployable in a good number of occupations.

I may be guilty of being overoptimistic, but I hope that one consequence of this Foley episode is that we as a society re-examine these Draconian laws and minimum sentences.
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 10:45 pm | #

My pessimism sometimes overtakes me I apologize if its rattled some cages.

Maybe it's my NYC BS detector, but I never had you pegged for any kind of troll. No need to apologize. I understand how we all have been so close so many times to have nothing but a great anti-climax. This time it seems to be different.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:45 pm | #

In reponse to Brian Ross's statement that other pages were coming forward naming other politicians, a commenter wrote:

The flood is coming!
Let’s hope no dems are part of this.
I could see this whole thing flame out with just one dem involved.

Which is a legitimate observation.

If this is a widespread practice, what is the probablity that at least one Democrat isn't involved?

People ought to be very cautious in their condemnations.

Condeming those who cover up illegality or unethical behavior is one thing. Condemning bad, invasive laws and urging that they be repealed is another.

But condeming Foley, the man himself, if a Democrat turns up to have been similarly involved, will have served only one purpose: imprinting the "gay as pedophile" association in some people's minds and egging on the moral majority.

While all the while, of course, having taken the attention off the show in the main ring which we all know is the real story about the Bush regime, regime meaning the heinous neocon agenda involving both current parties in Congress.
.
Eyes Wide Open | 10.02.06 - 10:46 pm | #

But those are the laws Mark Foley decided to devote his whole Congressional career to. A psychologist could spend a lifetime writing about why that is

The whole dynamic of this is fascinating. The people who are most likely to be offended by his behavior are his Republican constituents. He actively worked to criminalize behavior of which he was one of the few practitioners. His buddies in Congress let the whole thing drop with a wink and a nod.

If anyone (bart) cares to come back and claim that life is black and white there's no such thing as nuance...have at it!
Paul Dirks | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 10:48 pm | #

Renato,

Plea bargaining is the dirty little secret of the CJS and "often" does even come close. Glenn may no better than I but 90+%?
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:48 pm | #

know*

80% maybe?
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:49 pm | #

doesn't*

whoopee!
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:49 pm | #

As has been repeatedly stated in news reports (and in this comment thread), Mark Foley is 53 years old. His birthday is Sept. 8, 1954.

Google is your friend.
vetiver | 10.02.06 - 10:50 pm | #

The House Page Alumni Association website has a message board. The site is down now but the google cache has some interesting tidbits of conversation. I want to say that this second hand scuttlebutt so take everything with a big grain of salt.

Glenn, if this type of partial and certainly unconfirmed research is inappropriate please delete this post and will not post anything else of this type. I am not recommending anyone make any kind of rush to judgement, I am just posting what I found.

Link

There are a few gay members of Congress, I believe. Jim Kolbe from AZ, Barney Frank of MA, and some woman from Wisconsin.
Citadel
Apr 20 2004, 01:15 PM
yea, i remember hearing something about that too.
MNRepublican
Apr 20 2004, 01:16 PM
I'm pretty sure my stalker was too. LOL!
MNRepublican
Apr 20 2004, 01:17 PM
Citadel- our roommate from AL told me that Kolbe called him at home (or something like that). A little odd.
Citadel
Apr 20 2004, 01:18 PM
woah, Yea I remember him or you telling me that. that was odd.
MNRepublican
Apr 20 2004, 01:21 PM
I remember my stalker talking to me about which Republican would challenge Graham in Florida (at the time we didn't know if he would retire or not). He talked about Mark Foley to me. I just couldn't get over how freaking creepy that kid was. He was this scrawny kid with dark hair, a broken-out face, and glasses. He would just glare at me for moments at a time. Then we saw him stalk Katherine Harris, LOL.
Melanne
Apr 20 2004, 01:40 PM
Congressman Kolbe is a wonderful person. He is one of those members, having been a page himself, who recognizes that pages are people.
Melanne
thelastnamechosen | 10.02.06 - 10:51 pm | #

I'm not a completely heartless bastard. Believe it or not, I even have some sympathy for Foley. But this is not about him. It's not even about "teh kids". It's about putting the skids on this corrupt government and if this is what it takes, so be it. It is a little odd to find myself celebrating a poor man's downfall.

Schadenfreude. I'll have another.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:55 pm | #

As has been repeatedly stated in news reports (and in this comment thread), Mark Foley is 53 years old. His birthday is Sept. 8, 1954.

Google is your friend.
vetiver

Yes. my bad. DOB, not age. I'm usually not tipsy.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:57 pm | #

Kolbe is an R.

Barney knows better, I'd hope. Who is the "woman from Wisc."

Anybody?
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 10:59 pm | #

Of course, the Foley, Hastert, Boehner scandal is all of a piece with the current culture of GOP corruption in Washington and elsewhere. We, however, mustn't overlook or forget about the new revelations in the Abramoff scandal, the Rice-9/11 scandal, the return of the Taliban in Afghanistan scandal, the Katrina scandal, the Schiavo scandal, the Medicare Drug benefit scandal, the scandal over Plan B, and of course, the Mother of All Scandals, Iraq. So many GOP scandals, so little time! Incompetence is the only thing the GOP is good at!
aqualung

It's been said before, and perhaps we have stepped on some toes when it wasn't warranted... when you look at that list of abominations, this is what "America" chooses to fixate on?

Don't get me started. Perhaps we are only prolonging the inevitable.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 11:02 pm | #

Tammy Baldwin is the only female House member from WI.
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 11:03 pm | #

and she's an 'out' lesbian.
r€nato | 10.02.06 - 11:03 pm | #

I would again caution people not to jump to any conclusions. The first two pages of that thread are not available in the google cache and I have not located them in the internet archive yet. We do not know the complete context of that thread and to me the talk of stalkers refers to other pages.
thelastnamechosen | 10.02.06 - 11:11 pm | #

euphronius:

it is unliekly that dems are involved as they would not have the security of knowing the leadership would cover up any "embarrassing" issues as long as his or her pac gave $$$$ to the party.

Just a sobering note: The Republicans have never let facts get in the way of a good smear job. All they need to do is float the rumours, and let the RW "echo chambers" spew it all around. No names even need be given. By the time the rumours get quashed or peter out, the damage will have been done (the elections are only a little more than a month away).

We've already seen a bit of this "everybody does it" crapola here even....

Cheers,
Arne Langsetmo | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 11:13 pm | #

In a moment of weakness, Frist blurted out the truth about Afghanistan. The war is lost. Maybe it has been lost since the Bushies invaded Iraq. More bloodshed won't win anything. There's nothing left to win.
Laney | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 11:14 pm | #

"I actually think the best thing that could happen for Republicans would be for Hastert to resign sooner rather than later, although they then would be faced with the very serious problem that the next in line, Rep. Boehner, is quite implicated in all of this also."

Consider it the political equivalent of a decapitation strike.

If the wing nuts are right for a change and this really was a Democratic covert operation (it would be churlish to call it a dirty tricks operation, since it's all true) it's the best one I've ever seen. Which, knowing the Democrats, is a pretty good reason for believing it's NOT their doing.

Oh, and wasn't that nice of Howie the Whore to keep Reynolds' name out of his story in the Post this morning? I wonder how much that cost.
billmon | 10.02.06 - 11:15 pm | #

Here is a link to a photo of Tom Finney, Rep. Mark Foley & Joe Scarborough:
http://www.washingtonlife.com/ba.../ hard_rock2.htm

I have some other photo links here:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonl...10/2/191619/ 453
Duke S | 10.02.06 - 11:16 pm | #

vetiver:

As has been repeatedly stated in news reports (and in this comment thread), Mark Foley is 53 years old. His birthday is Sept. 8, 1954.

Google is your friend.

Thanks. Nice to know I'll be 53 next week (I was also born in 1954). News to me, even if somewhat unpleasant news. Calendars and calculators can also be friendly too. ;-)

Cheers,
Arne Langsetmo | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 11:20 pm | #

Shoot, Baldie.

I thought everyone knew about that. It's not just some internet rumor. Glad to be of help. :)
a. nonymous

Oh, I knew the cporporations were doing it, but I'd never seen one of their Web sites.
Anonymous | 10.02.06 - 11:24 pm | #

Consider it the political equivalent of a decapitation strike.
billmon

The thought had crossed my mind, but I just shook it off. That's why I'm not billmon.
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 11:27 pm | #

If the wing nuts are right for a change and this really was a Democratic covert operation (it would be churlish to call it a dirty tricks operation, since it's all true) it's the best one I've ever seen. Which, knowing the Democrats, is a pretty good reason for believing it's NOT their doing.

LOL. I get the feeling that people more important and powerful than the democrats or the republicans are taking things into their own hands. :)
thelastnamechosen | 10.02.06 - 11:28 pm | #

Thanks. Nice to know I'll be 53 next week

Cheers,
Arne Langsetmo

Happy Birthday, Arne!
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 11:29 pm | #

You know the more I learn about that pagething the more it smell's ;ike a setup to me. I have a pretty god bullsh*t detecter and I know that this guy didn't really do any thing bad because every body knows that it's really easy to forge a fake email and send it to some body and that';s what CLEARLY happened here. Matt Druge say's he knws that the page's were setting up foley and I think it'll come out soon that the democrat party made them ry to set him up and there's even a bigger sex scandal that will come out before the election about a democrat candidae for senator in the south i won't say who but any body can find out if you look for it so when election day comes you'll be the one's crying because your phoney little "sex" scandle isn't going to win you any seats you'll loose seats instead how does that feel liberals!!!
The Major | 10.02.06 - 11:34 pm | #

gotta see billmon

http://billmon.org/
a. nonymous | 10.02.06 - 11:39 pm | #

BILLMON - Which, knowing the Democrats, is a pretty good reason for believing it's NOT their doing.

Exactly. The most compelling proof that Democrats did not plan any of this is how perfect a scandal it's been and how it's all worked so well.

Oh, and wasn't that nice of Howie the Whore to keep Reynolds' name out of his story in the Post this morning? I wonder how much that cost.

What possible justification could there be for not including that self-evidently critical information?? Actually, Brian Ross should have been reporting that, too.

As you said, you picked a horrible week to quit blogging.
Glenn Greenwald | 10.02.06 - 11:40 pm | #

It has now been revealed: billmon is actually Leslie Nielsen!!

Nice to see you out and about, billmon...I liked your "Tenet = mule" allusion.
Captain Goto, beyond outrage | 10.02.06 - 11:47 pm | #

And the beauty of all this is that it's the very homophobia that the GOP has wielded like a Ginsu knife that is coming back to bite them in the ass.

The fact that it's a man-on-boy scandal is enraging and depressing the right-wing evangelicals in a way that a man-on-girl scandal would not. The evangelicals will stay home in droves this fall unless the GOP Congress starts tacking hard to the right -- and if they do so TOO hard, they'll alienate the soccer moms and the urban vote.

Even if Foley's the only casualty here -- which is looking less and less likely with each passing day -- this is NOT what the Republicans wanted to be doing one month before the most important mid-term election in decades. To say that this is a distraction is like saying that Joe Montana could throw a football pretty good.

The thing here is that for the first time in a long time, the normally-unified GOP front has broken down into several equally-strong warring factions, much like post-Saddam Iraq. There's no clear leader, no clear faction that's strong enough to subdue the other factions, and there probably won't be for at least another week.

The mere fact that there is no functioning leadership of the GOP House Caucus -- that it has become "every man for himself" as Josh Marshall states -- will in itself cost the GOP two to five seats it otherwise would have won. Money that would have been spent on attack ads against Democratic opponents will now be spent on attorneys' fees. Effort that would have gone into campaign strategizing now is going into simply keeping out of the pokey.

In a word, this is glorious.
Phoenix Woman | Homepage | 10.02.06 - 11:56 pm | #

All the other horrible, horrible things the Rethuglicans in Congress and the White House have done, and it takes a sex scandal for the Republican bloggers and such to wake up? Weird. Mark Foley may be a sleazebag, but he didn't kill anyone. That's more than you can say for Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney.
Frederick | Homepage | 10.03.06 - 12:01 am | #

More Kolbe rumors at Kos.
thelastnamechosen | 10.03.06 - 12:03 am | #

I have a pretty god bullsh*t detecter

The Major

No, no. no Major. I'm from NYC. I have a BS detector. I'm not sure where you're from but I'm pretty sure you're confusing your fondness for the aroma of freshly sprayed fertilizer with my BS detector.
Anonymous | 10.03.06 - 12:19 am | #

a. nonymous:

Happy Birthday, Arne!

Thanks. Week from today. Fittingly, Congress saw fit to proclaim it Leif Ericsson Day a while back, but the historical revanchists (and prolly some Swedes too) have counter-attacked and my calendar shows it as "Columbus Day" (whoever that was).

Don't tell my sweetie I'll be 53. She thinks I'll only be 52, and may call off the wedding if she finds I've been dishonest with her....

Cheers.
Arne Langsetmo | Homepage | 10.03.06 - 12:36 am | #

aqualung: ...the Foley, Hastert, Boehner scandal is all of a piece with the current culture of GOP corruption in Washington and elsewhere. We, however, mustn't overlook or forget about the new revelations in the Abramoff scandal

I don't even know what the new revelations about Abramoff are, but of all the GOP bald-faced sleaze that has hit the MSM in the past year, it is these 2 items that really damage them with their reliable "base". It may be that dedicated christianist activists can ignore stuff like this, but the normative red state Republicans who make up the bulk of their voting bloc won't. Many of them now probably feel that their crazed, Buchanan-loving brother-in-law in Arkansas was right all along in his view of GOP.
Fluffy | 10.03.06 - 12:42 am | #

Foley's Folly indeed!
sparafucilli | Homepage | 10.03.06 - 12:44 am | #

Something for somebody to look into:

The allegation that the page's parents asked that the House leadership simply drop the story doesn't appear to have a source anywhere I have read it.

When/where/why/how did the pages parents request that this incident not be investigated? Who has a record of the phone call or meeting where this allegedly took place? Who has a statement from the parents?
The Liberal Avenger | Homepage | 10.03.06 - 12:49 am | #

did you happen to catch Opie and Anthony today on XM/FreeFM(NYC) they did a skit where they read the IMs with Jimmy Norton as the Page and it made it so much stranger to hear someone read them off then just read them from the screen....not just some email about a "pic" it was much worse.
darling nikki | 10.03.06 - 12:53 am | #

oh moonies of Alabama, we now must say goodbye
http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20061002-102008- 9058r.htm

Resign, Mr. Speaker
A special, one-day congressional session should elect a successor. We nominate Rep. Henry Hyde, also of Illinois, the chairman of the House International Relations Committee whose approaching retirement ensures that he has no dog in this fight. He has a long and principled career, and is respected on both sides of the aisle. Mr. Hyde would preside over the remaining three months of the 109th Congress.

Henry Hyde?
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/09/ cov_16newsb.html

Has the Moonie Times been infiltrated and taken over by moonbat satirists from sadlyno and The Onion?
sysprog | 10.03.06 - 12:59 am | #

$o. Let'$ $ee how thi$ fact pattern is i$ $haping up.

Foley gives $100 grand to the NRCC. Kirk Fordham, his staffer, goes to work for NRCC chair Tom Reynolds. When all hell breaks loose, Fordham intercedes with ABC on Foley's behalf.

Sounds like Foley got more than his money's worth. He got a mole in the NRCC who could monitor his problems.

Now Republicans are running on bugger money.

Follow Glenn's line of thought: It's not the crime. It doesn't matter what was illegal. You don't turn the Page School into a brothel. It's not more complicated than that. I'm not surprised Malkin got the email she did. I wouldn't send my kid to be a back-scrubber at a Roman bath house, and I don't care what the laws are.

It's the cover-up. The cover-up! And the one sure sign of one is hush money. That and a quid pro quo.

We've got the elements here. A timeline would help, as would more on what Fordham did for Foley in the run-up to the revelation, but we've got more than enough to press ahead with.

The Republicans know this. The question is now what the Democrats will do to keep it simple. There's no reaon to pull punches. And if they feel the need to put together a focus group, they should do the folks the courtesy of distributing barf bags.
CreepingTruth | 10.03.06 - 1:03 am | #

And now we hear the Foley is admitting to the lesser sin of "alcoholism". Basic tactic is situations like this. The pressure on this guy has got to be so great that it wouldn't surprise me to hear that he's under sedation and may even have attempted suicide. There is some really basic underlying problem within Foley which has obviously been percolationg close to the surface in the past few years. Wouldn't take much to push him over the edge.

All this however is an illness of a human being, not that of a politician. The politician has resigned or he would have been voted out. The human being needs treatment. The other actors in this drama are another matter. Preaching to us and other nations about democracy and the rule of law while passively condoning such behavior is beyond the pale.
sparafucilli | Homepage | 10.03.06 - 1:05 am | #

Would it be impolite to ask how smart, how all-powerful Karl Rove is looking this evening?

Reality does bite, and it usually doesn't check IQs before making with the fangs -- which has been said by more than one of us in the midst of all the despair here and elsewhere.

In all fairness, though, none of us expected to see its pearly whites sunk into the plumper parts of the Republican triumph quite as soon as this. Perhaps we'll lose the election after all, but in the meantime, please let's savor the moment before heading back to the battle.
William Timberman | 10.03.06 - 1:22 am | #

Creeping Truth: I wouldn't send my kid to be a back-scrubber at a Roman bath house, and I don't care what the laws are.

The best summation I've seen of this whole mess, although I daresay there are parents who would. Just another talent show, etc.

It reminded me of a TV speech I saw Strom Thurmond give years ago. He was seated behind a large desk, with the national and state flags at his shoulders. His hands were on the desk, and I swear, he was wearing eight rings, one on every finger except for the thumbs. I have no idea what he said, but I do remember thinking: This man isn't a U.S. Senator, he's a Roman Senator. The image was devastating, like the owner of Luigi's Clam House in Jersey pulling up in a Rolls. I mean, it's not as though the signs haven't been there for decades....
William Timberman | 10.03.06 - 1:41 am | #

We won't lose the election, notice that Bart, Shooter, and Daleyrocks are curiously silent tonight, the fight knocked out of them by the reality of what they believe in shattered for the time being. They'll be back of course, their belief system needs constant reinforcement and just to show us they'll pop up from time to time, but until this event is over the fight is knocked out of them just as it was when the Bill Clinton nonsense started and we felt the same. Perhaps when both sides tire of investigations we can get down to working for the people and restoring some respect around the world for what was once a great country and justifiably now belongs to the Democrats to make sure it happens.
brainfaht | 10.03.06 - 1:43 am | #

I guess we all know now which political party Michael Jackson belongs to.
r€nato | 10.03.06 - 1:49 am | #

Rep. Boehner is next in line? What gain then? He has to go too or all is lost. I once checked out his voting record and it took me two weeks to recover.

These Pyrrhic victories mean little. I more and more get the sense this is a well orchestrated diverson that is serving the obvious function and is not anything that will produce any benefits that are real.

In the process, it could do some actual damage. Are we getting closer to reversing these heinous intrusive laws or farther away?

Are we encouraging government to monitor us on the Interent more or less?

Are we giving them more of a justification for spying on everyone, or less? Is the "war on pornography" under the guise of catching child abusers going to be elevated to the status of the "war on drugs" and the "war on terror"?

I'm uncharacteristically hard- hearted when it comes to real child abusers. I'd put them away forever and throw away the key. Terrorizing and abusing defenseless creatures is beyond intolerable to me. But that is hardly what we are talking about here.

Meanwhile, more and more, innocent people sit rotting in prisons, here and abroad.
.
Eyes Wide Open | 10.03.06 - 1:55 am | #

Wall Street Journal :
http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html? id=110009026

The 109th Congress has gone home to fight for re-election, and the best testament to its accomplishments is that very few Republicans are running on them. They're running instead against the peril to the country if the Nancy Pelosi Democrats take power ... many Republicans now believe their purpose in Washington is keeping power for its own sake ... No wonder so many loyal Republican voters have been telling pollsters they're not sure if they'll vote this year.

Wow. That's shrill.
sysprog | 10.03.06 - 2:01 am | #

for the WSJ, that's shrill, I guess, that they would admit the GOP has feet of clay.
r€nato | 10.03.06 - 2:12 am | #

isn't it a glorious thing that even bart is too embarrassed to show his face around here and try to polish the enormous turd that is the GOP mountain of sleaze, incompetence, corruption and sex predators?
r€nato | 10.03.06 - 2:15 am | #

I just followed some links from up above. If the stuff reported on Daily Kos is accurate, then this isn't the story that's been presented.

It has nothing to do with the Internet, if true. Foley would be an actual sexual predator of a high order. Crime prevention would have been called for. I hope privacy on the Internet isn't the victim, although I don't suppose the fine points of a dictatorship matter much any more.

Guess we'll find out.

It was interesting, though I suppose not unexpected, to find out internships are "bought" by the parents of the interns. That could perhaps indicate that interns will pretty much keep their mouths shut about what happens as their parents have political affiliations that would mandate the discretion of their kids so whatever political influence the parents have paid for is not disrupted.
.
Eyes Wide Open | 10.03.06 - 2:20 am | #

ewo said,
It was interesting, though I suppose not unexpected, to find out internships are "bought" by the parents of the interns. That could perhaps indicate that interns will pretty much keep their mouths shut about what happens as their parents have political affiliations that would mandate the discretion of their kids so whatever political influence the parents have paid for is not disrupted.

You have highlighted the reason why the "parents didn't want us to investigate this" excuse was a sick and cynical talking point.

Reality makes David Lynch look like Walt Disney.
thelastnamechosen | 10.03.06 - 2:59 am | #

OT (in a way, but never really OT)

“World Can’t Wait…Drive Out the Bush Regime!”
Be There on Oct. 5

...There is in fact a movement of some significance, however factionalized and flawed. In particular the organization World Can’t Wait has done some excellent work in uniting a wide range of war opponents in numerous actions and events. Daniel Ellsberg, Ray McGovern, Alice Walker, Howard Zinn, Rabbi Michael Lerner, Ralph Nader, Gore Vidal, Ed Asner, Sean Penn, Harry Belafonte, Tom Morello, Martin Sheen, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Gloria Steinem, Viggo Mortensen, Margaret Cho, Susan Sarandon, Jane Fonda, Bianca Jagger, Kurt Vonnegut, Rev. Jesse Jackson, Gen. Janis Karpinski, Ron Kovic, U.S. Rep. Cynthia McKinney and thousands of others have endorsed the group’s call to “drive out the Bush regime” and to “stop the attack on Iran.” One step towards this worthy goal is a day of action October 5, with actions in many U.S. cities. I am not optimistic that the regime will fall so soon, but I hope there will be a substantial turnout in those demonstrations and that they will have a political impact.
Eyes Wide Open | 10.03.06 - 3:00 am | #

protesting is fun and energizing but this is the US not France.

marching in the street will not drive out the Bush regime, not in this country. Perhaps in Western Europe that could work, where the unions are MUCH stronger, where you can turn out enough people to bring the country to a standstill, and most importantly, where they have parliamentary systems such that the head of government, the Prime Minister, can theoretically be turned out of office at any time.

What WILL drive out the Bush regime is organizing, volunteering, and donating.

Don't get me wrong; after all Bush is in town this Wednesday and I will be out there bright and VERY early to welcome him with my "Gang Of Pedophiles" poster.

But I'm not going to kid myself that a protest is going to change the government. This WCW thing, I'm pretty scornful about it.
r€nato | 10.03.06 - 3:12 am | #

Loraditch's Facebook.com statement said: "I have received several heated responses from my fellow pages about media involvement in the current situation. I want to respond with a few points and thoughts.

"Firstly, as to the ABC "Warned" story, while I may have inadvertently used the word, "warned," in communication, I can assure you it was not intended. The fact of the matter is in an informal situation a supervisor mentioned that Foley was a bit odd or flaky and did not connote by tone or otherwise that he should be avoided....

"Thirdly, I have stressed several key points in my contact with media that all situations with Mr. Foley occurred after we had finished our service as pages. That if anything had happed while we were in Washington, it would have been dealt with. That I have full faith and trust that any of the supervisors and staff we worked with would have properly dealt with any situation like the current one....
.
Eyes Wide Open | 10.03.06 - 3:39 am | #

Nice to see Rev. Moon is giving us permission to get rid of Hassert. The man who spent billions bringing this scum into control of our government now throws us a bone, lets all fucking bark on cue...

We should be screaming for the WT to register under the Foreign Agents Registraions Act instead of being all giddy cause they threw us a bone. Having them fall under FARA would be like a million times more important than Hassert's fat head on a platter.
Barb | 10.03.06 - 4:03 am | #

ewo,
Loraditch is the president of the House Page Alumni Association and ran the website that has been taken offline. See the bottom of this page. (no pun intended)

He is under tremendous pressure and I expect his story to change even more than Hastert's. I would be very surprised if he holds his current position much longer than Hastert does.

This statement you quoted...

"Thirdly, I have stressed several key points in my contact with media that all situations with Mr. Foley occurred after we had finished our service as pages. That if anything had happed while we were in Washington, it would have been dealt with. That I have full faith and trust that any of the supervisors and staff we worked with would have properly dealt with any situation like the current one...."

shows he had a bright future in politics.
thelastnamechosen | 10.03.06 - 4:54 am | #

Is it too far-fetched to wonder if the Foley scandal id Rove's October surprise?

The press should be talking now about Woodward's bombshell book, the Torture, Detainment, & Pardon Law, Condi ignoring Tenet's warning and the cover-up, and all the other major shit that just hit the fan. Instead it's the relatively trivial Foley sex scandal, creepy as it is. Foley takes one for the team, maybe Hastert has to step fown as Speaker, but it won't go much further.

I think Rove had this in his pocket and released it at the precise time he needed to to divert the always sex-scandal-hungry media.
Dan K | 10.03.06 - 5:22 am | #

Not having the College Republicans polluting the comments tonight has made for more enjoyable reading.
marcus alrealius alrightus | 10.03.06 - 5:25 am | #

Let me make a small revision:
The press WOULD be talking now about Woodward's bombshell book, the Torture, Detainment, & Pardon Law, Condi ignoring Tenet's warning and the cover-up...
Dan K | 10.03.06 - 5:27 am | #

A journalist, going to report on the local Republican caucus, sees a sign in the pet shop next door: “Republican puppies for adoption.”

Two weeks later, the journalist comes back for the local Democratic primary and sees the same puppies under a new sign: “Democratic puppies for adoption.”

So he goes into the pet shop and asks, “Weren’t you offering these little dogs as Republicans a mere two weeks ago?”

“Yes,” admits the pet-shop proprietor, “but since then, their eyes have opened.”
druidbros | 10.03.06 - 6:03 am | #

"As has been repeatedly stated in news reports (and in this comment thread), Mark Foley is 53 years old. His birthday is Sept. 8, 1954.

Google is your friend.
vetiver | 10.02.06 - 10:50 pm |"

So's a calculator.
Steve Pordon | 10.03.06 - 6:18 am | #

Lost in Foley's Penis:

U.S. Senate majority leader calls for efforts to bring Taliban into Afghan government

U.S. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said Monday that the Afghan guerrilla war can never be won militarily and called for efforts to bring the Taliban and their supporters into the Afghan government.

The Tennessee Republican said he had learned from briefings that Taliban fighters were too numerous and had too much popular support to be defeated by military means.

“You need to bring them into a more transparent type of government,” Frist said during a brief visit to a U.S. and Romanian military base in the southern Taliban stronghold of Qalat. “And if that’s accomplished we’ll be successful.”

[...] Frist, who said he would announce whether he would run for the U.S. presidency in about a month, said he had hoped that the United States would be able to withdraw its forces from Afghanistan soon. But the 20,000 U.S. troops are still needed to help the 37-country coalition deal with an intensifying Taliban insurgency.

The "War on Terror?" Completely LOST by the GOP. The "War on Internet Pedophiles?" Enabled by the GOP...

http://www.iht.com/bin/ print_ipu...istan_Frist.php
Moses | 10.03.06 - 6:34 am | #

Glenn, points out the obvious that had been discounted by some poseurs.

I have been reading what you've been writing about pages, and your cynicism certainly applies to some, perhaps many. But some of these kids really are just from very small towns who don't know much about the world, are away from home for the very first time, and - in the case of some of them - did not want this attention and felt uncomfortable as a result.

I have two first cousins, once removed (my first cousin's sons) who were both Republican Congressional Pages during the Foley cycle. One in 2001, the other in 2004. They're, unlike "worldly cynical sex-trolling catamite teens" that's been asserted by certain posters, just a couple of small-town boys with upper-middle class parents.

Kids that have to get into politics from the ground level, because they're parents & grandparents aren't senators, congressmen, etc. to give them a leg up. And now we find out that the GOP, with whom they were associated, protected a wannabe sex offender/stalker/pedophile instead of them.

Most of the "screw-ups", as Juan Cole pointed out, coudl be rationalized away. But now they're trying to bugger our children, too? Protecting a wanna-be child molestor to keep power? That's a no-no.
Moses | 10.03.06 - 6:58 am | #

Where can I get these bumper stickers?

SUPPORT FAMILY VALUES
VOTE DEMOCRATIC

PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN
VOTE NOV. 7

PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN
VOTE DEMOCRATIC
choppy | 10.03.06 - 7:21 am | #

What sort of place is "Balloon Juice"?

I thought it was a right-site, but they seem so, umm, non cultish. What gives?
sunny | Homepage | 10.03.06 - 7:48 am | #

If there ever becomes a time when blogs nominate host for consistent Hospitable Kind Comments...in addition to opening eyes wide open so we don't walk 'round every day squinting...I nominate Glenn. It's so easy to remain blind and walk in dark if we keep blindfolds on as we travel the blog-world. Let's remain hospitable-as-posible. S-H-I-Turret must be deep and stacked high in the turrets? In modern times? Whiskey won't kill ya, but some posters will. All the free informaion, imo, is wonderful wisdom.

It's often a feast of accumulating mental nourishment. When some troll stinks up sites, and nausea sets in, we can always anticipate a brief walk out the door to inhale some fresh air, take a deep breath, and even take a bath. It's always good to come back. Glenn's door is always open. Don't let it go into hubris...A noble hopitality award?

Let some one else praise, and not say such 'stuff' from our own lips. Life's lightening bolts can take care of that. I'm 'shutting down' and turning off from the blog-world for awhile (I sure not gonna' watch tee-vee) for well-being. i need Calm. i am 'embarrassed' for what some haul...like as: "Look what the damn cat dragged in and dropped at the door?"
brotherbruz | 10.03.06 - 7:58 am | #

I appreciate you blogging about this, Glenn, but is there any chance you'll be devoting some posts to the new Woodward book?
matthew | 10.03.06 - 8:00 am | #

this isn't just about foley, it's about republicans with any issue

pick any scandle over the past 6 years
if it involved a republican, it was not addressed, it was downplayed, it was covered up

they (along with alberto g.) have not done any investigation on any issue, this foley thing is just one example

may it wake people up to the overall obstruction of justice that has been going on on many levels, on many different fronts
tofubo | 10.03.06 - 8:10 am | #

I think Rove had this in his pocket and released it at the precise time he needed to to divert the always sex-scandal-hungry media.
Dan K

Dan, that possibility has been raised and has been addressed. The best way to put it is, So what? and anyway, why would Rove the Godlike Puppetmaster replace a scandal that raised nothing but apathy with a scandal that has legs?
Anonymous | 10.03.06 - 8:12 am | #

me
Baldie McEagle | 10.03.06 - 8:13 am | #

The Balloon Juice guy is a notoriously partisan, often fact-challenged individual. I am pleased to see however that he has a functional sense of right and wrong, something lacking in many, many of the other wingnut sites, as Glenn's links demonstrate.
melior | 10.03.06 - 8:14 am | #

Where can I get these bumper stickers?

SUPPORT FAMILY VALUES
VOTE DEMOCRATIC

PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN
VOTE NOV. 7

PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN
VOTE DEMOCRATIC
choppy

Choppy,

You can go to:

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/brow...px?CMP=KNC-G- EF

And have them make them up, it's not to hard for you to provide them with the GIF or JPEG images they need. They make them up at no charge to you, then you can start selling them to whoever, yourself included. Cafepress takes their cut on the back end. You don't have to front a dime to get it started. The website server is damn slow, tho.
Anonymous | 10.03.06 - 8:24 am | #

I don't even know what the new revelations about Abramoff are, but of all the GOP bald-faced sleaze that has hit the MSM in the past year, it is these 2 items that really damage them with their reliable "base". It may be that dedicated christianist activists can ignore stuff like this, but the normative red state Republicans who make up the bulk of their voting bloc won't. Many of them now probably feel that their crazed, Buchanan-loving brother-in-law in Arkansas was right all along in his view of GOP.
Fluffy

Fluffy,

In case no one else told you...

Abramoff e-mails show he knew about the invasion of Iraq in March of 2002.

Nice, huh?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/20...10/1/0185/ 88184
Anonymous | 10.03.06 - 8:28 am | #

On the Bush Jr. political implosion:

I want to imagine some science fiction movie scene in which the miniature black hole or dimensional gateway or whatever just begins sucking in everything too close to it, increasing in intensity while it shrinks, and then the main bad guy or guys lose their grip on the cabinet or door handle, falling in and shouting "Nooooooooooooo!" until the imploding object pops out of existence, and the survivors look around at each other, relieved that they were just too far away to be caught.
El Cid | 10.03.06 - 9:11 am | #

From Woodward's book .... a lot of the book seems to rehash stuff from George Packer and Tom Ricks, but this was new to me.

While leading the hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in the summer of 2003, David Kay received a phone call from "Scooter" Libby, Dick Cheney's chief of staff, who wanted a particular place searched: "The vice president wants to know if you've looked at this area. We have indications -- and here are the geocoordinates -- that something's buried there." Kay and his experts located the area on the map. It was in the middle of Lebanon.

And here's George Will's take:

The vignette is dismaying because it seems symptomatic of a blinkering monomania that may have prevented obsessed persons from facing facts.

Don't you just love his use of the words "seems" and "may have"?
AJ | 10.03.06 - 9:20 am | #

Sorry if this has been posted, but has anyone seen this?
sunny | Homepage | 10.03.06 - 9:26 am | #

sunny said:

What sort of place is "Balloon Juice"? I thought it was a right-site, but they seem so, umm, non cultish. What gives?
sunny | Homepage | 10.03.06 - 7:48 am

sunny, you're right, they're non-cultish. John Cole has invited liberals to blog at his site. John Cole himself remains still a proud conservative, but nowadays he's a profoundly disillusioned conservative. Glenn Greenwald wrote about him on January 4, 2006.
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/01/ disillusioned-conservatives-virtue-of.html

Disillusioned Conservatives & the Virtue of Gridlock
... Many intellectually honest conservatives and right-leaning independents are becoming increasingly disillusioned with the Republican Party ... Not even the most disillusioned conservative is going to be enthusiastic about the prospect of replacing a Republican-dominated government with a Democrat-dominated one, but for such individuals, aren’t things like logjam and diffuse power and muddled, non-ideological compromises and mutual watchdog activities infinitely preferable to allowing the Republicans continued free and unrestrained run of the federal Government? ... The amount of harm which any one party can do is much more limited when there is a balance of power rather than the unrestrained Republican hegemony we have now. And gridlock restrains corruption in a way that one-party domination never can...

John Cole speaks not just for himself but also to and for a rapidly growing number of conservatives who have come around to agreeing with what Glenn wrote in January. In the case of John Cole, his disillusionment runs so deep that it may be a long time before he supports another Republican candidate for office.
sysprog | 10.03.06 - 9:32 am | #

What sort of place is "Balloon Juice"?

John is one of those libertarian kind of conservatives. That means he doesn't have to take the blame for anything by taking pot shots at both groups. He has used his soap box for years to tear down the left. He's snipes and snipes and has helped support the false world view of conservatives over the years - now he's sort of a "the repugs are bad but Lord don't let a liberal take office" kind of "conservative" - in the last couple of years he has decided that the right is so bereft of principles he takes more shots at them. The right bereft of principles, something any jackass knew long, long ago but it took some time for John. In fact he supports conservative idealogy and isn't as "honest" as some make him out to be or he would have completely jumped the conservative ship long ago.

Liberals, in their never ending desire to find some good in people, keep thinking that there are "good" conservatives out there - when in fact the ones who may have a smidgen of principles have absolutely NO POWER within the conservative movement.

Look at what it has taken to awaken just a few of them. Good God, the nation has to enter the gates of hell to wake up any of them?

Make no mistake, when the curtain closes Cole will pull the lever for any republican on the ballot in a close race and tell you he didn't because he is not for anyone.

Last I heard he was proud member of Pajamas media, helping to promote people like Charles Johnson and co.
Bob | 10.03.06 - 11:55 am | #

I beleive that finally we may have the nail in the GOP coffin. My clue is Rush Limbaugh. I hear his show at 3:00 A.M. in the morning. He was completely unhinged. The most remarkable thing I remember him saying is that "a persons sex life should be private". WOW! He didn't think that way when Clinton was in office. Not until he got caught going to foriegn sex travel locations and his GOP buddies get caught doing perverted sexaul things. Adultery between consenting adults is one thing. Sex between middle aged people and underage to barely of age children is quite another. They can't spin this event. Drudge, Limbaugh, the rest of them only look ridiculous. I think perhaps the dittoheads will be reduced in numbers.
KansasKowboy | 10.03.06 - 12:22 pm | #

Steve Pordon:

So's a calculator.

Heh. Beatcha to it.

Cheers,
Arne Langsetmo | Homepage | 10.03.06 - 12:28 pm | #

The Major says "So when i any body going to ask wheher these page's were ENTRAPPING the congressman. Matt Druge says the page's are NOT INNOCENT of any wrong doing but liberal's won't lookinto whether the "innocent" little kids are really doing the dirty work of the democrat party. Your all hypacrite's!!!
The Major | 10.02.06 - 7:34 pm | #

Yeah Drudge, now there is a man with common sense and the inside scoop. Yes the Democratic Party rounded up some young boys and said "hey guys you are too young to fight in Iraq but do you want to do something good for your country? Yeah whaht's that the boys respond. Let some old guy have his way with you." I don't think so. You might check to see if these kids got some shiny new mountain bikes or some expensive computer games for payola. Drudge, isn't he the guy that like to have sex with egg yoke?
KansasKowboy | 10.03.06 - 12:32 pm | #

This has already been said, but it still slays me. Of all the terrible things the GOP has done in the past 6 years, the fraud, the cronyism, the bribery, the corporate domination, the fraudulent wars, the fear-mongering, the hatred and xenophobia oozing from every pore, the hypocrisy, the use of the Constitution and treaties as toilet paper, in general the horrific combination of evil and incompetence, and THIS is what brings them low?

Don't get me wrong, Foley is a creep and needs to go, and the coverup will rightfully eviscerate the party leadership. But what does it say about the Republican voters that they could ignore _all_ the crap with far-reaching geopolitical ramifications, they could listen to their leaders demonize whole American demographics with language straight out of the Third Reich without batting an eyelash ... but when a coverup is exposed involving a (so far) single congressman having unethical and *maybe* illegal relationships with a few young men, only then do they say they've had enough of the party?

I can't help but wonder if it would be less appalling if this one slid under their radar like everything else has. That at least would be keeping with their MO to date.

******* The Silver Lining *******

Obviously sex is the Republicans' achilles heel. Anyone else can weather most types of sexual issues without a problem. Gay congressmen, Clinton's high approval ratings in spite of his marital infidelities, etc. Conversely, Reps can get caught red-handed doing absolutely anything else and their voters won't care. The GOP may be as immune to reality as Superman is to bullets, but kinky sex works like kryptonite.

Something for the other parties to keep in mind when they need to destroy a Republican candidate.
Jared | 10.03.06 - 1:18 pm | #

In normal times, all this would be exciting and worthy of great debate and attention. However, we no long live in normal times and whilst we are consumed with whose aid tried to con which network,

"not only has an additional US Carrier Task Force (the USS Eisenhower, et al.) been ordered to the Persian Gulf, but also another group of US warships, US Expeditionary Strike Group 5, bearing 6500 Marines also have been dispatched from their home port in San Diego to the Middle East" in preparation for a possible (probable?) attack on Iran.
http://www.boomantribune.com/

In addition, there is some interesting data that points to a

"HUGE number of October 6th put options for the big indexes. Check out the concentrated puts on the Diamonds DOW Trust (DIA).Ditto for the S&P Depository Receipts (SPY).And the NASDAQ (QQQQ).Even the Market Vectors Gold Miners has significant puts for October 6th.

Make no mistake - something wicked this way comes, and the smart money has already taken preventative steps."
http://simbaud.blogspot.com/

Now I want the Foley story to represent GOP coffin nails as much as the next guy, but don't be too surprised if Foley gets pre-empted with the real October surprise.
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