Comment on In the Middle of America
Oops, I've been censored completely now.... super
G,
Pia has no kids. She hopes to live as an "immortal" in cyberspace. She's not going to let you sully her own "Memorial". What would future generations think of her, if even people of our own century were "critical" of her? What would future "researchers" think if they found criticisms of her lifestyle amongst her OWN self-absorbed writings? Perhaps they wouldn't worship her as the goddess she obviously believes herself to be.
Plato, "Symposium"
"Marvel not then at the love which all men have of their offspring; for that universal love and interest is for the sake of immortality.'
I was astonished at her words, and said: 'Is this really true, O thou wise Diotima?' And she answered with all the authority of an accomplished
sophist: 'Of that, Socrates, you may be assured;--think only of the
ambition of men, and you will wonder at the senselessness of their ways,
unless you consider how they are stirred by the love of an immortality of fame. They are ready to run all risks greater far than they would have run for their children, and to spend money and undergo any sort of toil, and even to die, for the sake of leaving behind them a name which shall be eternal. Do you imagine that Alcestis would have died to save Admetus, or Achilles to avenge Patroclus, or your own Codrus in order to preserve the kingdom for his sons, if they had not imagined that the memory of their virtues, which still survives among us, would be immortal? Nay,' she said, 'I am persuaded that all men do all things, and the better they are the more they do them, in hope of the glorious fame of immortal virtue; for they desire the immortal."
---
and pia certainly demonstrates the primary virtue of our modern age. Amour propre (Rousseau, "Emile"). Her writing's remind me of Gaius Petronius' Satyricon. Only I don't think she is attempting satire with her blog. More of a documentary film.
-FJ
FJ, pointed and well versed as always, you have metaphorically “struck the nail on the head.”
What I am still amazed by is the lack of insight she possess to actually address the issues and/or social dilemma that my comment actually posed. Instead she has decided to martyr herself under a “how dare you judge me” banner. While I understand that is safer, is it really getting anywhere? Especially I was virtually tripping over myself to ensure she understood that I did not feel I had any right, much less ability, to pass judgment on her.
Wow G, fascinating exchange between yourself and Pia. I agreed and disagreed with statements from both of you.
Unfortunately, all topics tossed back and forth were lost on me due to one dominant revelation:
You really are a troll. Arguing with anyone and everyone just to get a response.
Do you agree with anything or just thrive on being the Devil's Advocate?
G,
You were far too condescending and "non-judgemental" with her.
The left has you brainwashed into thinking it's a sin to be judgemental. That's only because their entire self-esteem is derived from what other people think of them. For they are entirely other dependent.
By judging her, you broke the lefty code of ethics. Only praise and support for self absorobed individuals is to be offered. Criticism should be reserved only for the evil System and it's minions on the right who serve her. Critical Theory 101.
-FJ
not true at all marco. I agree with various things from both sides. I think the reason you see me this way is because the only other site we have in common is Dissent. There, I usually only have something more to add when in disagreement.
See, I dont see the purpose in commenting "hell yeah!" or "spot on!"... what's the use?
However, when I either have something to add, or have a disagrement.... I will comment.
Now, you will notice that on Dissent (though they may be few and far between), I have moments of agreement with Dion.
See, I enjoy debat, but if you notice, i try to include some substance into my debate, not just mindelss "your wrong" commentary.
I think the "trolling" you refer to happens when someone adds comments with no more value than "you are stupid and wrong".
That is not what I do, and now what I did here... obviously, because "Trolls" get very little response. My comment got a dramtic response, which tells me I hit a little too close to home.
FJ
The only point you made there I will have to argue with is that this thought process (or lack of) does not apply to all left voters. I have met a couple through the blogosphere, and others in life that dont have a problem with dissent or criticism.
I dont know what the difference is though. I dont know how to differentiate the two groups from eachother (self assured v/s needing affermation).
ps - Evidence that she really Does care about what people think of her... her next essay...
"So you think I'm superficial; do you really think I care".
You got to her G. Keep poppin' dem bubbles.
-FJ
Well G, you seem to have blind-sided pia with something she probably never considered before. That her life resembles that of Narcissus in the story of Echo and Narcissus. Her blog looks to be pretty "self-absorbed" overall. Maybe that was a good tell. Had she thrown out a bunch of Hate Bushism's in the Hair-piece, she might have been up for some interesting discussion.
The Lefty fellow-travellers are MUCH more cynical and would just as soon send pia to the gulag with the rest of the useful idiots and true believers. That's what Stalin did. Much too impractical and self-righteous. That's why I like mr. ducky so much. He's ALL cynicism, all the time!
But somebody's got to get Narcissus to stop staring in the pond. You did her a favor that a "friend" should have done for her much sooner. Guess that tells you something about her friends.
http://www.thanasis.com/echo.htm
-FJ
G,
The Left and Right are not monlith's. My comments about the Left are meant to be "general" and not the "rule".
-FJ
Oh, but they are the rule, if you take a look at it closely. Great stuff, g! Great stuff.
I get your point about left/right. But I am intrigued by your notion of Echo and Narcissus, and then enter Pia.
What I find even more dumbfounding is how someone outside of the situation (as yourself) can see this, while every other person there (without fail) seemed to see events trasnpire almost lock-step in agreement with her.
I can only assume because "regular" readers at that site dont do much free thinking, and instead readily engage in hero worship over her.
A bit of writing talent does not a revolutionary thinking make.
Thanks Cao.
I just figured since she was quickly moving to eliminate my influence on her site, I should use something to document it a bit. What I would really like is to get some lefty types, not committed to her on this. One came (marco), but that one has already condemned me as "troll" because I often argue with the beliefs on Daily Dissent.
I don't consider myself a 'lefty' at all, and I can appreciate your point about not wanting to be a cheerleader 'spotting on'.
We have agreed in the past about several things (sharing some of the heat you take on Dissent), and disagreed about others. Its not your views that I consider 'trollish', just your delivery. Your posts beg for an argument most of the time, not a debate.
I'd like to see you go "Ten Rounds with a Righty" as a followup article, Mr. Centered.
you say tomato, I say tomahto.... debate and argument mean litterally the same thing. The difference is only the emotion felt by the parties. I have almost never felt enough emotion to elevate to argument (with a few choice exceptions).
And, as the "ten rounds" go.
I would... if I found the spot I disagree with... but see, most of the right bloggers I've been reading dont post things I disagree with.
And there are very few people on the right that have the same vanity and self absorbed ego that was displayed there (Rush Limbaugh aside).
and you are the closest thing to a lefty I can find here for the time being.
Oh contriare, debate is done with class, an argument is done with insults.
ok, then I ask, please point the insult versus critical opinion in my comments to our dear Pia. I tried very hard to voice my critical opinion of her piece (and how I felt it reflected on her) without insulting her person...
G,
All of our blogs are self-centered. The posts are only what we select or choose to share.
You wrote a comment that was nothing but a personal attack & insulting, then use a disclaimer saying you didn't mean to do exactly what you did.
The fact that you call her "Lefty" tells more than you may realize. I don't think it would hurt to re-examine your motives. When someone is kicked, they usually kick back.
Jane;
I did not call her "lefty" or anything similar in the actual comments made that elicited reaction. Only after the threat of censorship did I then go that route.
Again, please identify "personal attacks." Then show me the "personal blog". Open sourced as it was pretty much removes the idea of "private blog", because anyone with a web browser can visit and then comment (unless they are banned of course).
If you read my comment, the substance of it was an opinion (critical yes, but hardly an attack) of what I felt when I read her work. She made comment back to me saying that she likes the feedback. Does this mean she really only expects good feedback?
If so, there are deeper issues there than even I touched on.
Either way, actually read my comments. Read them in order, and read them in context to the other comments. If you still feel that what I was doing constituted a personal attack, so vicious as to warrent being censored and banned, then so be it. However, I think you will find instead a knee-jerk reaction to something that obviously hit a little too close to home.
Also, one last note: What you concider self-centered is not what I was referring to. While your blog may be about you, and your life (thus rightly being titled "self centered"), I did not call her blog self centered, but her writing piece, and thus the expression of herself in it.
To come to this conclusion we must get past the obvious fact that the blog is about her. Instead, go deeper to the feelings, emotions, thought track, and mind-set that were displayed by her post. When we look into that, and see the direct references to self saitiating indulgences... well I dont really know what else to call it except "self centered".
G,
Look at the title of this post, does it not say 'Lefty'?
You confuse me because while you say you didn't mean it as a personal attack & I somewhat believe you're being sincere, I can't understand how you expected it to be taken any other way.
If your intention was for constructive criticism, it could have been worded, much, much differently. I guess I just don't understand the purpose of leaving, what comes across as a hostile comment, why read something if you don't like it?
I appreciate your attempt to discuss this. Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree.
Peace,
Jane
G,
I am tired from a long weekend and my trip back, but I will try to offer my take, here on your blog.
1. It's her blog. She can write whatever she wants on it, right, wrong, or indifferent. Just as we can on ours.
2. You did hit a nerve. If she really didn't care, whe would not have devoted another post to it.
3. I wouldn't let it bother me too much, because if you analyze the whole course of events in this exchange, you will see that she and her loyal crowd do not use their blogs for the same purpose that you and me use ours for.
The bottom line is she doesn't want to have this debate with you or anyone else. She wears her heart on her sleeve and probably has deeper issues than just what she openly displays. (And so does her loyal fan base)
4. My advice is to shake it off, chalk it up to experience. You do a good job here at your site, you let others speak their opinions, something that many others don't. Don't get upset over one person's or one group's resistance to your input. For every one of those, there are many more that welcome it. (And there are those that would gladly accept the challenge of defending their position, in the face of your critique)
I (like you) welcome other opposing view points. I have deleted only one poster's comments in the time I have been blogging. But, it was not for their viewpoint, it was for their nasty tone and attitude.
well maybe i am the lefty you are looking for G , and sorry to break the trend but i am going to defend you on this
there is nothing in your comment that would offend me , and censorship from the left or right just stinks
if a person on wants agreeable monkeys then they should put a password on their site and stick to the nice happy "good post" type comments
Both the left and right do it , and it does not help anyones case
sheeez , the last thing i want you to do is come away from a left leaning site being censored from dissent as it makes your views "which i think are wrong" seem right
to me this is not about left or right this is about respect and any site that will censor you is not worthy of your dissent
hopefully people like me , marco and dion proove to you that those of us that are left of center can and will debate with anyone and NEVER censor anyone
I spend my time giving and recieving dissent and to be honest only have respect for those that can take it as well as give it
insults are one thing , but if courting destiny thinks your comments are insulting then they must have been living in a hole
in my view they need to get there act together , how on earth are the center left (not far left) ever going to get any power back in american politics if they wont stand up and fight for it
what is the point in trying to convince those that already feel the same ?
My opinion G is not to waste your time , move on to those who are worthy of your comments
but remember this is not just a crime of the left (right sites ban me lol) it is a crime of lack of respect , lack of confidence and over inflated egotism
H
G,
I've read everything twice, and I still don't understand the overreaction from Pia. But then again, maybe the fault is mine because I've never understood obsession with aging, a natural process. The fact that Pia feels you are judging her is also interesting in and of itself.
I also find that I agree with FJ here: Well G, you seem to have blind-sided pia with something she probably never considered before. That her life resembles that of Narcissus in the story of Echo and Narcissus. Her blog looks to be pretty "self-absorbed" overall.
My first thought was also of Narcissus.
Pia wrote You’re a baby boomer which means that you both played by the rules and rewrote them. You can take care of yourself; you only need men for fun.
One can rewrite rules to one's content, but biological facts exist. Aging is one of them. As for needing men only for fun, I see a lot of shallowness there.
Is Pia mourning her lost youth? I think so; and we all do the same to a certain extent. I speak here as a 53-year-old woman who never had children. But I don't brood over the fact that I'm aging, and I don't feel that not having children is something I missed out on. Rather, I live my remaining years and try to do useful things. Maybe Pia is brooding because her life isn't satisfying now. Think T.S. Eliot's "Hollow Men" here.
Furthermore, youth doesn't last forever, and in some ways, getting older is a positive experience. I find it sad that Pia is wasting time in mourning for something she cannot change. Worse than that, she may be wasting a lot of energy which could be used to do something more worthwhile than brood over what will not change.
If one posts inner feelings on a public site, one should expect some criticism, not a bunch of sycophants saying, "It's okay. You're great."
And--I just have to say this--get a damn bunion, and you'll change the shoes you wear!
G, you mentioned "martyr." A martyr gives himself for a cause. What is Pia's cause? Her own aging reflection in the mirror? And her personal attacks on you speak volumes.
I can only hope that Pia's blogging is good catharsis for her. Frankly, I don't find myself much interested in many articles on her site as what I've glanced over are primarily "me, me, me."
I second what LA and AOW have said on top of what i have already psoted
also in yourself ,LA and AOW you have peffect examples of how to handle critism
they are correct , you touched a nerve and the attack on you speaks volumes
move on G , egotism on that level needs counciling not web space
"H" has made an acute observation and offered good advice.
There are few things that are more personal than writing . . . it allows others to see who we are and what we stand for.
I applaud the effort that goes into writing because it is an involved process. I don't think that enough people do that, and it is soul "therapy."
On the other hand, if you publish your writing (and blogging is a form of publication), then I think there ought to be an expectation that not everyone will agree with your point of view. If one can take criticism or a different point of view, then by all means allow others to comment. If not, then do not allow comments at all. But to allow comments, and then censor the opinions of others seems a bit silly to me.
We are living in a strange world . . .
H,
Thank you for the compliment! You and I sometimes disagree, but we know how to respect each other's opinions.
I tell you now that learning to accept criticism has been a journey for me. I've worked hard to learn how to understand that others can disagree with me and, in doing so, not threaten me.
Mustang, as usual, speaks words of wisdom:
If one can take criticism or a different point of view, then by all means allow others to comment. If not, then do not allow comments at all. But to allow comments, and then censor the opinions of others seems a bit silly to me.
We are living in a strange world . . .
To me, this is a pure example of unadulterated, core level, putrid self serving, selfishness.
Would you consider that an insult? I'm just wondering because adding the words "with absolutely no insult meant" does not make it any less of an insult. Too think otherwise means that you believe people when they say "I'm not a bigot but..." and proceed to slam one group of people.
mulligan, I was under the premise that this was a piece of fiction? Was this her real life, played out through psudo characters?
If so, then yes, I see where suddenly we have gone from criticism of a post, to attack on a person.
My wife (I hate when she does this) gave me some perspective that I could not argue with. Her's was the as usual, simple lesson of:
If you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything at all. While I cannot obviously follow this completly without removing the ability to be critical of anything (at least publicly).
So, I will now, at the behest of blog friends and now my wife, let this go on into the "archives"... well, maybe tomarow.
Thanks for the input, and I do hope that Pia, at some point, looks past the "attacks" to see the potential issues that I saw. But if not.... oh well.
I will say this though, as a parting shot if you will:
Pia has delved into politics on more than one occassion. If she enjoys mixing personal writing with political ranting, then she most definately falls into the realm that others that do the same, just with less "fame".
Now, moving on, if she, or any of the others, would like to endulge me with political discussions, please, do so. Other than that, I think I will concider this closed... (unless of course someone else shows up overnight).
mulligan
your using the freedom of speech G allows on his site to defend the removal of his freedom of speech on another site
dont you feel just a dash hypocrtitical ?
If you really feel that his comments were insulting then he probably did you a favour , the real world is full of strongly held and diverse views and if your all so deeply affected by his words then i fear for your state of mind
my advise is to take on board the wisdom of mustang (above) and stop allowing comments all together
I imagine from the quick glance i took of your site and your post on the death of your gerbil that you may well be quite young ...
however the blogger in question is a self confessed middle aged woman and speaking purely for myself , it is about time she grew up ,
you guys might pamper her ego into the next century and maybe that is why a few strong words create such offense but it sounds to me like a dose of reality was needed
If the owner of the site wishes readers to tip toe around their emotional instability then they should say so on their site
maybe you would be better served helping Pia with her overinflated ego then wasting your time here with people who are mature enough to seperate between critising a blogger's post and insulting a person
Pia has no difficulty attacking george bush ( i attack him too ) but then stops people critising her posts ,that is what i call double standards
oh and btw if your insulted by anything i have said then pause for a moment , is it possible that maybe you deserve it ?
Here's another perspective:
Who cares? It's a freakin blog, not the New York Times.
I'm going to go love my wife, get a good nite's sleep, wake up, have a coffee, a shower, and go to work.
On my way, I'm going to be a nice guy, offer my seat to an older person on the train, say please and thank you to the person making my bagel sandwich, and hold the door for someone on my way into work.
I'm also going to smile.
I suggest you all try something similar.
_H_,
I suggest you read my comment again. I was only making a response to how he worded his comment to Pia that started everything. I was not commenting on anything else in this whole affair.
I wouldn't dream of going to your site and making a judgement of you based on one or two posts. You shouldn't do the same about me. BTW, the gerbil was a classroom pet of my students. I imagine that makes me older than you though.
hey marco , this is fun 
I am not used to defending G , it is a noval concept to me
dos that not count as a good deed for the day ?
something tells me it won't last
new york times or G's blog , makes no difference to me , i live in a world of almost constant jaw ache
I dont know about anyone else but i dont even take myelf seriously , never mind anyone else
Mulligan , I was just having fun , I beleive in freedom of speech and you are weclome to come forth and comment what ever you wish on my site
the judgement that G made was of words on a screen not at a person
if the site owner took it as apersonal attack that says more about them then it does G
I actually find it amusing , my point is in using such a pathetic excuse to censor people
thats the whole falure of understanding
you post thoughts and allow comments then you accept critism , i fail to see how anyone could be so shallow as to take offence
I call bush a terrorist and accuse him of war crime , of course i get abuse all the time
the people who attack my posts do not know me or anything about my life , they are attacking words they are reading on a screen
it seems that some people can not make the distinction
it is possible your assumptions are as bad as mine , you have no idea how old i am
at least i guessed your age , you imagined mine
I take it you do not teach science when you use the fact that you classroom gerbil died as evidence that you are older then myself
eek
Amazing G! You really stepped in it didn't you?
Didn't you realize that the "mainstream centrists" with whom you found a point of disagreement are in charge of the language?
THEY will tell you what an insult is.
THEY will tell you that you were being argumentative, whereas THEY debate.
THEY will deny being "lefties" and "how DARE you" suggest otherwise.
And with a smug snarky condescension, THEY will attempt to put you in your place.
I hope you learned your lesson. Tolerance for diverse opinion is ONLY permitted if those opinions are ones of which THEY approve.
I'm sure you will know better next time
always,
Great reference and apt description of the condition...The Hollow Men
http://www.cs.umbc.edu/~evans/ho...ans/
hollow.html
-FJ
"They keep pulling me back in..."
Anyway, marco... you commie! You have to be evil and ruthless unless you are on the left... just ask some of the folks on Dion's site.
At any rate,
Mike:
yes, I did step in it, and as far as Pia goes, you're spot on.
Mulligan:
I saw that you are a teacher... I hate stereotypes... but are you a big supporter of the Teacher's Union that throws tons of money at the Dem party who then expects some return favors out of you by good indoctrination?
FJ and AOW:
You guys are always so much above my head. I do not have anywhere near the literary background to come up on that level, but I sure do enjoy watching it from the sidelines.
H:
We might save your soul yet 
and with that... I go on to one more post... lets see what news item gets my goat today..
I never censored you; I said you had one more chance
For the record I have only taken out comments by one person who is an overt racist and banned that person
Why is my writing supposed to be up for debate? It's in my personal blog; all over my even semi political ones, I have written "if you wish to fight me please go to Bring it on!"
Why should I take time that I don't have to debate somebody I don't know?
I came home on Monday after 4 hours at the dentist--to that comment. My body was in shock from much work; my mind--and yes I have a good one--was numb
I am not a self absorbed person who is mourning my lost youth but if it makes you happy....I actually enjoy being older
Tried replying to your email, it was sent back to me
But thank you for dissecting my character
You're right G, I'm not evil enough.
Tomorrow I'll try this:
-Tell the old geezer on the train that I was here first, deal with it.
-Argue (Debate) the benefits of a good college education with the minimum wage earning bagel shop worker.
-Let the door slam in the face of the person behind me (hopefully a pregnant mother)
-I'll kick the homeless vet(s), laugh and tell them to stop milking the system.
Wow, i feel so empowered now. Anything else I should try?
you are well on your way marco, soon you too can vote Republican, after all, anyone who would vote that way must be a heartless SOB.
pia... you sure about the email thing?
I still cannot post comments any more, reguardless of what other's have said. So, that is one form of censorship. Also, you did threatend to delete my comments... I suspect you changed your mind at the mention of the ugly "C" word.
G,
You have not been censored, merely "silenced". She can hear the echoes better that way.
-FJ
lol... echo... Narcissus...
Silenced, not censored. You are right, I was using the wrong phrase.
I didn't censor you. I didn't put your name, url, url number on blacklist or moderation lists on wordpress, spam karma or gmail, so how could I have censored you?
My blog is not about debate. On every vaguely political post there is a disclaimer asking people to "fight me at bring it on!"
I have been dissatisfied with blogging for awhile, and am writing another post. While it talks about you as your comment came at exactly the wrong time, it says things that I have wanted to say for quite awhile.
Thanks for the thorough dissection of my character
Pia, I said in the post above that you didnt censor me. You Silenced me, on your site. I am unable to post comments (i.e., tells me the moderator has banned me) when I try.
If you have lifted it, let me know. I will come back.
And I told you in that email that I was not dissecting your character, I was dissecting the message presented in your story.
_H_
I meant to write " I imagine that makes me older than you thought." I left off the t.
LOL ok mulligan , thanks for clearing that up ..
at least you just missed a key , for me i just simply can't spell
A tale of two blogs...
Pia Blog A
"You don’t have to put a kid through college; only save enough for you."
"You haven’t seen your natural hair color in three decades;"
"A man’s hair has always been very important to you."
"You freely admit to being shallow when it comes to men"
"No you’re not going to go into older middle age gracefully. You’re going to be damn vain; it’s going to all be about you. You’ll make your mother’s ghost proud."
"Yes during your glitter rock days you had a glitter hot sock emergency. You’re damn proud of it."
"After you finish your very extensive dental work, you’ll have your lip plumped. You don’t really need botox; even doctors tell you that. You’re perfect home micro dembrasion material, and you’ve been doing that forever."
"You can take care of yourself; you only need men for fun."
Pia Blog B...
"I’m neither immoral nor amoral; overly vain or narcissistic."
"Am I self-absorbed? My former editor says that “it’s the dictionary definition for writers.” He should know."
"But I’m not going to defend or debate my values and/or moral code."
---
I often wonder if words have meaning any more. It is a puzzlement.
-FJ
Dude you don't have to be shown your wrong, who cares? You talk about the market place of ideas but took a writing sample and turned it into a thesis of her moral failings. Then you complain that she doesn't understand it wasn't personal and sought to possibly ban you?
Ever heard of private property? Your allowed to censor ideas on your own property. I don't know about your Dad, but let me tell you if I had spouted some comments about my mom he disagreed with - you better believe he would have censored me. It isn't a "lefty" thing - it's an ownership thing. I've been censored on "right winged" blogs and left wing blogs.
You have every right to an opinion. It was expressed. She had every right to comment and rant back because no matter how many times you said "it's not personal" that isn't for you to decide, it was for her to decide. She then has every right to think your a moron, a genius, a nuisance or the greatest thing since sliced bread and deal with you acdcordingly.
The market place of ideas gives you no rights other than to have an opinion. It does not guarantee other people are forced to listen.
greetings cranky
I personally have no problem with such criteria if it is clearly defined
it was not
Comments are allowed by anyone and most sites that i am aware of if they do have a policy of censoring free speech will state the rules cleary
I have picked a site at random to give you an example
http://logicvoice.blogspot.com/2...nts-
policy.html
there are rules of decency that we all abide by and for some reason pia does not
the only advice on posting i could see was " Dare to comment or don't! Other blogs are hot; my blog sizzles.
"
hardly a warning that the effort you put in to making a comment could be censored and/or deleted
G did nothing wrong , he merely expressed his thoughts
If he knew that this particular blogger had such an issue with her ego then i am sure he would have refrained from posting
she did not make that clear
I do agree that this is not a political issue at all , both lft and right do such things
but there is nothing in your comment that changes my view of this being a self centered and egotistic person who is not mature enough to take constructive critism of her work
thats something for her to deal with and not something for G to worry himself about
_H_ said: "there are rules of decency that we all abide by and for some reason pia does not"
What rules of decency has Pia broken and who sets those rules on her own personal site? Last I knew, we all had the right to decide what is and is not acceptable on our own sites.
Tammy
what rules of decency say you should hold a door open for someone who is walking behind you ?
decency is something you either have or you dont ?
lets call it common Courtesy if you prefere
what pia decides to do or not do is as you say her own choice
how i judge such behavour is my choice
what a strange argument you put across , do you not know the difference ?
example , a person can 'choose' to put up a web site that says all "black,gay,mulim,jewish whateveer" people should be shot
that is their choice
expressing there choice does not stop them from being judged as not very nice people
I do not question Pia's right to make a choice
I DO make 'my' judgement of her to be egotistic (and all the other things i said) based on the choice she made
it seems you wish to defend Pia's choice AND deny me mine !
I say what she did was not the decent thing to do , so please respect my choice
I didn't say you or anyone else doesn't have the right to have or express their own opinion. It wasn't an argument and I didn't realize it would cause such defensiveness.
I asked out of nothing more than curiosity. You said Pia didn't abide by rules of decency (or common courtesy, if you will). I was curious which rules you think she's broken because I must have missed it.
LOL i respond like that to everyone do not take offence , they are merely words in response to your question
I am direct that is all
the answer is within the content
decency / courtesy have no definable rules , you either have it or you dont
and my definition of decency does not have to be yours obviously
I feel there were more mature ways of reacting to a dissenting post ...
90 % of my comments on this site are critical of what G thinks , he is in many ways politicaly opposite to me ,
He does not censor me (that is his choice) and i feel that it is lacking in respect to censor him
probably 80 % of the comments i get on my site are critical of my posts (i say bad things about Mr Bush and US foreign policy) so i tend to be very blunt and to the point
in short i do not defend what G does or doesnt say , I merely critise those who would repress his right to say it
Deep breath everyone. Pia and I have hashed things out in email back and forth. As far as I can tell, she is having goofy server isses, and that is why I am supposedly getting the "Your banned from comments" message.
She did me the favor of posting my comment for me... and I think without doctoring it
Now, after talking to her, I think I can safely assume her position isnt one in which she wanted to really back up her threat of "your comments will be deleted and you will be banned", but instead, was speaking at a particularly sensitive time (right after oral surgery).
I am going to throw it down too that I also have to accept some level of blame in that I did push a little hard, no so much in my first comment, but esepecially so in my second comment.
Now, the censorship deal to me is a "hot button" because of this premise:
I post something on Pia's site. She doesnt like it, but responds, as do about 6 others. Now you have new exposure of me to about 6 people for sure, along with however many read but dont comment.
If she bans me, I am left, on her site, to dangle in the wind, with no chance to defend, re-phrase, or explain anything I said; only to recieve a beating.
At the same time, as Cranky Liberal so clearly pointed out. It is her sight, so do not attempt the double standard that I cannot then come to MY site, and do the exact same thing. I have a right to post what I like, when I like, and how I like.
If you notice, I'm still on one post about this issue, she has done two on it. I didnt even do a post until her reply post about my comment, and then the threat to delete and ban me.
But as I see it, Pia and I will never be best friends, but we have come to an understanding. I dont think she is a deplorable monster, or a morally vacant individual. I do think she has her priorities and values set slightly different from mine... but applies to most of us.
I have character flaws (not many ) and will readily admit it. Pia will do the same, but I think that all of us need to remember that we do not have the right nor the authority to judge her as a person.
My intention was to express my feelings of her writing and the messages they portrayed. Not to tear her apart and examine her character.
And H... you better be careful, next thing you know, you will have to turn in your blue lightsaber, get a red one, and change your name to Darth Harvester or something....
Avoid the Rush, Join the Dark Side now!
LOL G , well over here the left is red and the right is blue
so i already have a red one , i just use my holiday blue one when i visit you guys so you dont get confused
another oposite
to me blue brings up visions of far right wing nutters like margeret thatcher
I never censored you. I thought that you were going to make that clear.
This entire thread is about a possible glitch in my spam karma. Then again there might have been no glitch because your name, ISP and numbers didn't appear in my "moderate" or "ban" list.
I cut and pasted your comment and was able to put it under your name, email, and url without changing anything as there was nothing to change
As I said I have banned one person for making repeated overtly racist comments. Sorry if that offends you.
Had you asked me to put in a comment when you first couldn't, rather than scream about censorship I would have gladly despite what it had to say. But you ignored the comments that I wrote until for some reason it suited you to ask me to post your comment which I immediately did
So tell me how I censored you?
What I meant by nothing to change was the post took without me doing anything. Nor did I doctor your comment
Censorship is a very big issue to me; as is aging. Which is why I became a licensed social worker in geriatrics
Gee, I don't know. G, do you know, or are you g now and not G. 2G or not 2g. That is the question.
-FJ
lol, FJ, you're having fun with thus huh?
Pia, I made it clear enough, but it doesnt mean we cannot ignore the fact that you did "warn" me with deleting my comments, then banning me... and low and behold, that very day you developed "server issues" that just happen to give me the message:
"The site owner has banned you as spam from commenting on this post" or something like that.
Now, I will take your word for it, but I'm not going to use cyber white out and pretend like it didnt happen.
I thought our email conversations settled this whole thing. Are you expecting me to to sing your praises now and try and completely clear you? This whole things started when you over reacted to a comment I made, then created an entire post about it, and then threatend to ban me.... what is it you are expecting on my end? I've extended the "olive branch" as far as it is going.
Yes, I am enjoying this G. In her post, pia claimed "I cut and pasted your comment and was able to put it under your name, email, and url without changing anything as there was nothing to change".
Only she changed your name from G to g. So she's only made a "diminutive" out of you. LOL!
-FJ
Bye pia. No one's watching. Carry on. You're perfect just the way you are.
-FJ
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