i'm reading jonathan edwards commentary on 1 cor 13, called charity and its fruits. the chapter is so often used so shallowly at weddings, but has so much to say of the divine love, which we are commanded to imitate. super great read on loving enemies, not envying, not being unjustly angry, on being truly humble and other parts of love. i can hardly get a grip on the greatness of the love of God.
"When we consider that God loveth all his Creatures which he made, it should teach us not to abuse any of the Creatures, to serve our Lusts"
Christianlove? What's that? People don't know how to love.I'm so cold.. it's beenso long since I've known human love proper. No one cares.. no one hears.. they just turn away and forget me and leave me buried alive. And I have no one to ask the least thing of.. Christian love? Where. They all slerved their own lusts, and I didn'tmatter. It's okay you can ignore me.. I'm used to it.
Jerry,
Do I have to be a Hyper-Calvinist if I deny that God loves the reprobate? Even if I believe that we should proclaim the Gospel to all men without exception? Would you say that the denial that God loves the reprobate in any way alone makes one a Hyper-Calvinist, or would you also say that another characteristic must be the denial of duty-faith? Of course, I wouldn't deny that God loves the reprobate in no sense wherever, but I believe it to be a very general love. It's quite difficult to explain. Anyway, hope you and yours are well, my friend.
Thanks, Bro!
Josh,
What you describe in this paragraph is NOT hyper-Calvinism. Hyper-Calvinists deny that God loves the reprobate in any sense whatsoever -- as if causing rain to fall on their crops is an act of hatred! God does NOT love the reprobate in the sense of purposing to save them. God DOES love the reprobate in giving them good things in this life, in sustaining their existence, and like general things.
Well, I think there are some folks who would deny that God loves the reprobate in no sense whatsoever who may still not be classified as Hypers, because they would still press all men without exception to repent and believe. The major hallmark, IMHO, of Hyper-Calvinism is a denial of duty-faith, hence the denial to evangelize all men indiscriminately. Insofar as God's love for the reprobate goes, I think it's applied in a general sense that God loves all his creatures as the "class" of those who are made in His image. On the other hand, rain, sunshine, familial love, and the various "gifts" God gives to the reprobate seem to be making all the more ripe for their judgment.
Josh,
While all of God's goodness towards the reprobate does indeed make them ripe for their judgment, it is not the things themselves (which are themselves good things, and which are themselves gracious things, and kind and loving things), but the hardness of the heart that uses (rather, abuses) those things to their own destruction. I have bumped into a few Hypers who have denied vehemently what I just wrote. I've seen them assert "duty-faith" but deny that the Gospel itself is a gracious offer, but is rather a mere command to the reprobate. This is certainly beyond historic Calvinism.
Ahh . . . well, I can't really go for the "well-meant" or "sincere" offer to the reprobate, although I believe in a free offer. From my perspective I certainly know know not who the reprobate are. As far as I'm concerned God promises salvation to all who *would* believe, therefore every men ought to be pressed to repent and believe. So it's an if/then offer. I don't think myself a Hyper-Calvinist, though. In other words, the offer is sincere in that God will save whosoever will, but I cannot hold to "sincere" in the sense that God desires something over and against that which He has decreed. Does that make sense?
Josh,
I am choosing my words very carefully. I have not said "well meant" or "sincere" offer. I said that the Gospel itself is a gracious offer. I am not interested in defending the sincere or well-meant offer. I am only interested in defending the Gospel as a gracious offer in and of itself (regardless of God's secret intent). What you say makes sense, and I don't see that we are disagreeing. Perhaps you have not yet bumped into the "Outside the Camp" types, but should you ever do so, you will find that they deny that the Gospel is in and of itself gracious if preached to reprobates, that God is in any sense good to the reprobate, and that God in any sense loves the reprobates.
Understood, Jer Bear. Didn't mean to imply that you were going so far as "well-meant" and "sincere," but I certainly appreciate the clarification. I do believe that Gospel is a gracious offer (to all who thirst and are afar off!). I know of folk who are the "Outside the Camp" folk and it's unfortunate, I suppose, the extent to which they take the attitude, as if they have some sort of merit deserving of the gospel inherently. Blessings, Brother.
Remember, the purpose of a frying pan is to cook eggs. Even if a man beats himself to death with one, the thing itself is still not a weapon but a kitchen tool. Likewise, the Gospel is itself a gracious offer to sinners, regardless of whether or not the sinner stumbles upon it to their own destruction (according to God's sovereign decree).
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