50 cents will get you a gumball or 4 lbs. of corn. 56 lbs. of corn costs less than two gallons of gas. The people complaining about high U.S. grain prices were complaining in years past about low priced,subsidized U.S. grain. They complained third world farmers couldn't compete. Fact is,everything has gone up along with oil. And I mean EVERY commodity,from gold to grain. If we stopped ethanol production today,corn prices wouldn't go down,because fertilizer and fuel isn't coming down. We'd also need 500,000 more barrels of oil per day to replace ethanol supplies. And the world can't produce it.
Maury,
http://findarticles.com/p/articl...01/
ai_n24136137
"Moves by foreign governments are boosting U.S. grain exports, increasing pressure on wheat and feed grain stocks of the U.S., Canada and Kazakhstan. Few big exporters have much grain left to spare."
A ton of coal costs $25. While coal can be converted into a suitable Diesel/Jet Fuel/Heating oil replacement it can't be converted into food.
http://www.moneyweek.com/file/13...eplace-
oil.html
At capital costs of $700 million for capacity of 10,000 barrels/day and a 30-year life, operating costs of $15/barrel and current coal costs, breakeven for a coal-to-liquids plant in the US would be in the range $39-44 a barrel, assuming no tax incentives.
What if you are wrong and have been all this time????
My brother- in- law says we have plenty of oil--he works for big oil--he says that we have it but that the price will stay high. I wonder why...
Lisa,
If the developing world consumed oil at the rate the US does we would need a supply of 400 million barrels of oil per day.
The other demand that increases is for Chickens. Funny that the first thing poor people do when they get a few dollars to spend is go out and buy themselves a nice fat tasty chicken to eat. After that they go out and buy some form of motorized transportation. Then they go out and buy an air conditioner and washing machine.
Chickens eat corn. Motorized transportation eats oil. Air Conditioners and Washing Machines need electricity. Electric power plants have to be fed something.
At current production rates Saudi Arabia has 80 years of oil. Double the
rate it will last 40 years.
In the end of the day...the country that figures out energy efficiency and alternative energy production first is going to be better off than the country that leaves it until the end.
Governments are notoriously bad at picking "future technologies". This ethanol abomination being case in point. World chicken demand is going to skyrocket and since chickens eat corn so will corn demand. So what does the government do...decide that the "most promising" alternative energy is corn. If Congres thinks they are getting an earful with gasoline at $4 a gallon...wait till chicken hits $4 a pound.
The average MPG of cars sold in the US
in 2001 was the lowest in 20 years. People naturally gravitate towards larger heavier vehicles. With gas at $4 a gallon...they will start gravitating back to lighter more fuel efficient vehicles.
I bought a Chevrolet Chevette in 1976 when gas hit $1 a gallon. It got 28 MPG City. Here we are 30 years later and the number of cars that get better than 28 City can be counted on one hand. Lets see..a "Smart Car" gets 33, Toyota Yaris gets 29. Outside of Hybrids thats it. Ohh yeah..and Toyota Prius's are "import restricted" to 175,00 cars per year by our glorious leaders in congress.
SD
Hopefully the Coal-gas plant proposed neaby in Columbiana(oh) gets started soon. Massive building project and great job source as well as helping oil imports. Win win for all invloved. I think they may even have permits from epa etc. already. BTW ou are right on with $. they mention 750mil to a billion to startup.
Hey my first car was a Chevette.
Can't find them anymore.
Problem with us running out of oil is that people will not have enough money to buy the new cars and it is gonna take years to make the new fuel.
And Russia puts out MORE oil now than
Saudi Arabia. Freaking Russia.
Thanks to the fat cats and speculators our oil has caused a lot of pain for some real poor folks. But there's oil right here in he USA. My B-in-law says there's plenty... but he says just don't expect our prices to go down. And they struggle with and he makes good money. Go figure.
Hey my first car was a Chevette.
Can't find them anymore.
like the chevy vega they didnt put much steel in them and what they did went away very fast(rust) up here in ohio anyway. Drove from north ohio to key west in one with no air cond so we could save gas money. Gas had risen to around 45 cents about then.
ahh, the good old days!
SD.the developed world hit peak oil some years ago. You can see it most pronounced in production graphs of U.S. and North Sea oil fields. Russia recently peaked. Saudi Arabia probably already peaked,or will peak very soon. They just increased production 500,000 barrels,and the markets didn't even burp. They can't increase production another 500,000 barrels. Nobody can. Iraq might some day,but don't hold your breath.
Ethanol provides the equivalent of 500,000 barrels per day. Yes,corn tripled in price,while oil is up 7X in 7 years. But,wheat,rice,and barley did the same thing. And not because everyone's planting corn. Planted corn acres are actually down 8% this year. And those farmers aren't getting rich with $8 a bushel corn,because all their costs are climbing just like ours.
EVERY commodity has gone through the roof SD. Corn catches the attention because of ethanol. But,take a look at copper,zinc,silver,gold....or even cement prices. Through the roof. And the government doesn't turn any of those things into ethanol,LOL.
If world oil production has peaked...and many of us are convinced it has,supplies of crude will decline by 3-4M barrels per day next year,and every year after that will see a similar decline. Without alternatives,the world's economy will likewise shrink by 4-5% per year going forward. That's a depression folks. Worldwide. And it won't end until we come up with alternatives to crude.
Luckily enough,I think bio-technologists have the answer. They've developed bugs that poop gas,diesel,and even crude. Better crude at that. They can design the bacteria to feed on almost any plant. It's going to be affordable and scalable. Check out stories on LS9 if you get a chance.
Maury,
You are not seeing the worldwide poultry and pork consumption charts.
The most optimistic figures I have seen on ethanol production is that it takes 200,000 barrels of oil to produce 500,000 barrels of ethanol. So if you want 500K net gain you actually have to produce 800K barrels of ethanol.
The AirForce has already tested Coil Oil in its jets. Ethanol doens't work because the BTU content of ethanol is about 30% lower per gallon than JP4. In big airplanes 25-30% of fuel consumption is due to lugging around the weight of the fuel.
Our glorious leaders in Congress are sitting on the AirForces Coal Oil proposal because it doesn't have enough "ethanol content"...
Jet Fuel is a perfect candidate for coal oil. We use 1.5 million barrels a
day. Most of it dispensed at large hub airports. We don't need to build 10,000 E-85 gas stations. We can build coil oil refineries on the airport. As most major Airports are near rail heads.
E-85 isn't going to work anyway...if 5% ethanol content requires 12% of the worlds corn production...how are we ever going to manage to get to 85% ethanol content?
At $4 a gallon people will purchase more fuel efficient vehicles. Where is the Air Car that is so popular in India? My better half is coming close to needing a new car...she drives about 40 miles a day back and forth to work. If the thing will get her back and forth to work safely and it costs less than $10,000 I'll buy one for her tomorrow..
SD, 20 years ago,we were told the U.S. had 200 years worth of coal in the ground. Today,it's 80 years worth. Figure in the annual demand increases,and we're talking 30 years. Turn it into crude,and we've got maybe a decade's worth of coal. Then what? Most new power plants are coal fired. We'll need a lot more electricity as our transportation evolves to PHEV's. South Africa turns coal into gasoline. Ever wonder why they don't export it,or even meet all their own needs with it? Coal liquification ain't all it seems cracked up to be.
Btw,even if Americans all bought Prius's,there's still India and China,growing by leaps and bounds,with ever growing demand for fuel. Between them,they've got almost half the world's population....and they all want two cars in the driveway.
As for ethanol,it's not like refiners have a lot of choice in the matter SD. MTBE pollutes groundwater,and most states have banned it. Ethanol is the only viable replacement. It boosts octane,and helps gas meet the Clean Air Act requirements. I don't know about fuel for jets,but ethanol is also referred to as racing fuel. Those Indy 500 drivers use it. It's about 110 octane. Super-duper Premium Deluxe.
a depression!?
Nah!
Really?
Nah...
Well, we are already depressed.
Cost me over $140 for my Plavix...that's not counting all the other meds they have us on.
I am used to cooking peas/beans/and mess like that. Jess is going to the extension of her college because we can't pay for her on campus living even with her working. Bob had to move his job back here because gas was costing him a fortune and I might croak and he needed to be closer.
Yeah Bob, I had a Royal blue Chevette. Cool car. I kept it clean and you could run forever on a tank of gas. Yep, those were the days.
how about sugar cane?
And we'll be the last ones with the new fangled "gas' car as usual.
Bye SD.
Sorry.
"A ton of coal costs $25. While coal can be converted into a suitable Diesel/Jet Fuel/Heating oil replacement it can't be converted into food."
I had to look into that one SD. Here's the best article I came across on coal. When these prices are used,a CTL barrel of oil looks more like $150.....and rising.
"During the two-year period from January 2006 to January 2008, prices rose from about $100 a ton to $250 a ton for high-quality metallurgical grades of US coal. Central Appalachian steam coal is currently selling for about $90 a ton, up from $40 two years ago. During this time production costs have risen as well, though not at the same pace."
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4061
Coal is a commodity,just like corn. OF COURSE the price went through the roof in the last couple of years.
SYDNEY (Reuters) - Merrill Lynch has raised its forecasts for contract prices of coal for power plants and steel mills in 2008, predicting that prices will jump by as much as 200 percent, after recent supply disruptions resulted in a severe global shortage.
Contract prices for coking coal, used to make steel, are expected to reach a record high of $300 a tonne, a three-fold rise from an agreed price of $98 last year, amid a "supply apocalypse" following recent weather-related supply disruptions in Australia, Merrill Lynch said in a research note on Friday.
http://in.reuters.com/article/bu...-
32348920080307
It was and has always been about oil.
and when you stand over those boys bodies- you remember you let them bleed for oil. I will never forgive you guys for that.
Maury,
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/coa...al/
feature.html
The average delivered price for coal to produce electricity in the US in 2007 was $36 a ton.
Exported metallurgical grade coal was $88.99 a ton.
1 lb of ethanol contains 11,000 BTU's.
1 lb of Jet Fuel/Diesel contains 18,000 BTU's.
1 Ton of Coal Yields 4 barrels of oil equivalent.
15 Bushels of Corn Yields 1 Barrel of Ethanol.
So the math works out 60 Bushels of corn yields the same amount of liquid fuel as 1 ton of coal.
The price of corn was $7.21/bushel this morning. So the cost of the corn for a barrel of ethanol before refining costs is $108. Then factor in that ethanol contains less than 2/3rds
the energy of gasoline. On an energy equivalent barrel rather than a liquids equivalent...the raw cost of corn to produce enough ethanol to replace the energy in a barrel of oil is $162/barrel.
As far as indy cars...they switched to methanol to get past the "restricter plate" problem. I.E. In order to limit
speed of Indy Cars years ago they decided to limit the amount of air intake by installing something called a "restrictor plate". Methanol burns at a 5/1 air fuel mixture while gasoline is 14/1. Methanol has about 1/2 the btu content of gasoline. So given the amount of air is restricted methanol works out 14/5. One can burn 2.8 times the amount of methanol for a
given flow of air. Methanol has 50% of the Btu's of gasoline. So 2.8 * .5 = 1.4. So by using methanol indy car designers can manage 40% more horsepower from the same air intake.
Sorry to be so technical but I studied thermodynamics from real live honest to goodness rocket scientists.
There was an "energy crisis" then just as now...we
did all the math on all the alternatives as part of coursework. The only things that have changed is the net energy efficiency of solar panels and the "Developing World" is actually "Developing".
That's why we have Iraq though
"Here's a shocker: Electricity bills are heading up. Way up.
The price of coal, which fires half of U.S. power plants, has doubled since last year, largely because of surging energy use in countries such as China and India. Natural gas prices are up nearly 50% on high U.S. demand. In California, drought has forced Pacific Gas & Electric to replace cheap hydroelectric power with natural gas, helping to prompt it to seek 13% rate increases."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/in...es-
rising_N.htm
What would 1000 CTL refineries,each producing 10,000 barrels of oil per day do to demand? Could consumers handle utility bills that were 3X higher? 5X?
First-ever all-ethanol Indy 500 has a winner...
http://www.autobloggreen.com/200...0-has-a-winner/
Here you go Maury
State of California Cost Estimates for Zero CO2 New Electricity Generating Capacity.
http://www.ethree.com/GHG/30%20G...tion%20Cost%
20S
ummary%20v3.doc
Nuclear comes in at a total cost..including building the plant etc etc of 12 cents a kilowatt hour. Basically 10 cents per kilowatt hour in construction costs...and 2 cents per kilowatt hour in fuel and operating costs.
If you look here -
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/
fore...orecasting.html
We are currently consuming in the US ~10 Quadrillion BTU's of Nuclear, 20 Quadrillion BTU's each of Coal and Natural Gas and 40 Quadrillion BTU's of Liquids(Gas,Jet Fuel, Heating Oil, Diesel etc).
So just to make the math easy...lets make total energy consumption in the US is 100 Quadrillion BTU's.
We currently have 104 operating nuclear power plants that provide approxiamtely 10% of the total.
We use 40 Qudrillion BTU's/year in Liquids which is roughly 20 million barrels per day.
Again to simplify the math. 1 million barrels of oil/day gives us 2 Quadrillion BTU's/year or even simpler...we need 500,000 Barrels of Oil a Day to produce 1 Quadrillion BTU's/year or 1% of our total energy consumption.
10 nuclear plants replaces the energy equivalent of 500,000 barrels of oil per day. There are 31 Nuclear Building Permits sitting at the NRC waiting for approval. Once approved we are 5-7 years away from an actual functioning nuclear power plant.
If you want stable energy commodity pricing then we need to be building Nuclear Power plants fast enough to offset increases in consumption in the
developing world plus decreases in existing production.
China and India currently have 6 Nuclear Plants under construction and Russia has 7 under construction. Worldwide there are 35 plants under construction.
I'm all for more nuclear plants SD. I'm all for anything that'll help alleviate peak oil. We should have coastal drilling everywhere,not just the western Gulf of Mexico. We should be drilling ANWR. ANWR has more oil than Mexico,an oil exporter. Ditto for CTL,although I don't see it helping much.
As for nuclear,I'd like to see a NASA mission to mine the moon for Helium-3. The Chinese have announced their intention to mine the moon for it. A shuttle full of H3 could power the U.S. for a year. The moon has enough H3 in its topsoil to power the world for 1000 years. Clean nuclear power too. No radioactive waste.
It is here: http://www.defenselink.mil/home/...orts/
index.html
Russia is now more powerful...I kept warning you.
we need to get off the oil quickly or there will be disaster.
we need to tell them we are leaving. That they will have to protect themselves-the Saudis...
Saudi Arabia currently makes an astonishing $1.3 billion a day on oil revenues. Greg Priddy, a global oil analyst with the Eurasia Group, says the United States may not like paying high prices for oil, but can't do much about it. American threats to cut back consumption and switch to alternative fuels have little impact on the Saudis.
"American leverage over them on energy policy is definitely a lot weaker than it used to be, and a lot of that is ... the fact that Asian demand is still growing even at triple-digit dollar prices," Priddy says. "And that means that they're no longer quite as worried about U.S. conservation measures."
They don't need us anymore...just for protection.
First: There is not enough oil on our coasts to make a difference unless we slow down consumption...and still not enough.
China/India and other players are turning towards Russia.
http://www.geotimes.ge/index.php...me&
newsid=11295
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008...on/
edlieven.php
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/s...PStory/
Business
Second:Ethonol isn't the answer.
Third: Nuclear used for electricty a possiblity but comes with great risks-not enough people that specialize in it to get enough up and running. Plus that only takes care of electricity. Possibly coal.
Fourth: Food-people are going to turn inward-hoarding.
http://business.smh.com.au/perfe...80622-
2uxa.html
and sen grassley appears to be doing hs job...
you can't blame him for the failures of poor planning from years ago and floods that ruin crops.
Lisa, did you know electric cars ruled the American road 100 years ago? Ford's assembly line,and cheap Texas crude tilted the balance in favor of internal combustion. Automakers are dragging their feet on electric vehicles. There was a hybrid with regenerative braking on the road in 1908. It ain't rocket science. Btw,Model T's ran on ethanol over 100 years ago too.
I am at the funeral home today...
and no I did not know that. Jess said she saw a documentary on how the car industry had pushed that kind of car out-big business she said it weren't in there business.
Someone here is running a car on old transmission fluid here and then there is someone running a car on used vegetable oil down south of us... I figure we are arnry enough around here enough we an figure something out
You do realize my family will not be able to afford one those new cars.
Maury, Lisa,
We can't expect John Q Public to figure out energy policy. John Q Public wants to live in a comfortable home and have comfortable transportation.
People who don't think we have the expertise to build nuclear are missing the point that the Chinese nuclear plants are American designs being built by Americans.
In the 1960's and 1970's every plant was a different design requiring different safety procedures, maintenence procedures and construction techniques.
Today's nuclear power industry resembles tract homes. 6 Designs. Every design being proposed to be built in the US has already been built
somewhere else. The engineering work
has already been done...the manuals and procedures have already been worked out. The manufacturing techniques are done.
Out glorious leaders however like to pander to fear. With oil there is always the potential for spills...and if you fear a nuclear power plant exploding then you should really fear a tanker filled with natural gas exploding.
Then everyone talks about Solar..I replaced my roof 3 years ago and looked into solar roofing...for $400,000 I could get a solar roof that would cut $20 a month off my electric bill.
Maury you hit on a good point on the Model T's...they had 22 horsepower.
If we limited every private passenger car in the US to 22 horsepower we would have no energy crisis. We probably wouldn't have any traffic fatalities either. Make then out of high impact plastic and extruded aluminum rather than wood and steel and one get get maybe a top speed of 60 MPH.
A reasonably aerodynamic car needs 7 HP to overcome wind resistance at 55 MPH. All the rest of the power and fuel consumption in a car is needed for the acceleration of the weight of the car and its passengers.
A GMC Yukon weighs 5,720 pounds. The local youth soccer fields are down the street from me. Weeknights it is a parade of 80 lb kids with a 2 pound soccer ball being driven by their 120 pounds mothers to soccer practice in a 5,720 lb vehicle. 97% of the energy being expended is transporting the vehicle itself to soccer practice.
To send me further into orbit...there is a city bus stop at the soccer fields.
But hey...subjecting SUV's to fleet fuel economy standards would have meant that GM would have had to subsidize the price of cars like a Chevy Chevette and charge a premium for cars like GMC Yukons...and that would upset the soccer moms.
So now we are going to burn our food to power the GMC Yukons so that the soccer moms can be happy.
They won't be happy when chicken is $5 a pound. But politico's need to be elected now...so they tell stories about how we are going to grow enough corn to 'fuel america'
1 Bushel of Corn = 18 pounds of chicken feed. It takes 12.5 pounds of feed to produce a 5 pound chicken.
So the feed cost for a chicken is 2/3rds of a Bushel.
List as far as your point about Senator Grasley not being able to predict a flood her is the history of fl
Maury,
I think I better leave here as this place is definitely out of my league.
But I have noticed that it is real easy to sway opinion on the internet...just a thought from a lowly citizen.
Take Care.
Lisa
We do have a geophysicist in the family perhaps he knows something. He does that oil under the-ground-thing.
The rest of our claim to fame is that of pharmacists, nurses, banking and one annie survivor-me with severe panic attacks but I do have like my Aunt Nanc says a "great strength to survive." And like my counsin Terry says I am a force to be reckoned with. That I am sure I am not.
I have made a deal with God if there are such things that if he wants me, he has to take me like Tim Russert- quick! I don't want to lie around waiting for it...too damn scary.
And I have also ordered all kinds of books to read- I want God to let me be able to read them before I go-what I'll do with the knowledge I'll learn from the books is beyond me but I want to read them.
I thank you guys for making me feel visible and smarter than I am. Sorry for hurting your feelings or making you mad. You have my utmost respect.
Always,
Lisa
Lisa,
http://www.fema.gov/news/disaste...tate.fema?
id=19
There have been 17 floods in Iowa in the
last 18 years. Flood plains make for excellent farming...because flood waters
carry a whole pile of nutrients that things like corn really like.
If it floods before you plant your crop...you'll have a record harvest..if it floods after you plant your crop you won't have any harvest.
In the town I grew up in we had corn, dairy cows and a textile mill. The corn fields flooded every single spring...which is exactly what the corn farmers wanted.
"1 Bushel of Corn = 18 pounds of chicken feed."
That's why I don't understand the outcry over ethanol SD. They get 2.7 gallons of ethanol AND 17.4 lbs. of feed from a bushel of corn. What's the big deal?
Nothing you've said offended me at all Lisa. And your opinion is as good as anyone's.
Maury,
http://uk.reuters.com/article/
oi...740407420080207
Energy legislation requires a five-fold increase in ethanol use by 2022. Some 15 billion gallons could come from traditional corn-blended ethanol.
15 billion gallons = 5.5 Billion Bushels of Corn. An average harvest for corn is somewhere in the 10 Billion bushel Range...maybe a bit higher if you don't have an inconvenient drought or flood.
15 billion gallons = 350 million barrels.
So we will reduce our reliance on oil by 1 million barrels a day at the price of 50% of our corn production?
Somehow I think if we cut the supply of chicken feed in half...Chicken is going to get mighty expensive...mighty quick. Beef will be something only millionaires eat.
here's food for thought...no pun intended
http://www.christiancountyheadli...id=603534&
rfi=6.
I guess we plant more corn and sugar cane...
We're Americans. We can do this. We've been down and out before and we came through. We'll do it again.
You see this...
http://www.businesswire.com/port...267&
newsLang=en
Knowing what we know, why doesn't the government invest in corn/sugar cane crops just for ethanol. It has to be done or we will never get off foreign oil.
There should be crops just for the production of the alternative fuel.
Completely different from what we use to eat and feed.
Americans have to realize things aren't going to be the same ever again.
Sorry for hurting your feelings or making you mad.
not even a thought. cant be done by simple differance of opinions. Irish-german background with 4 siblings. We could kill one another one moment and the next it never happened. My kids cant understand that concept. Nothing wrong with a good argument/difference. Most things dont matter much in a few days anyhow!
We're Americans. We can do this. We've been down and out before and we came through. We'll do it again.
now you be talkin! where did that optimism come from
Americans have to realize things aren't going to be the same ever again.
Lisa | 06.24.08 - 10:11 pm | #
very true
but it does NOT have to mean worse! Dont swallow the msm line... of worser and worser(that reminded me of SOD) hell even GM is HIRING 1400 this month in youngstown ohio for a 3 rd shift making cobalts(right time ...)-it aint all bad, a bunch of new young folk getting a good start. Bet THAT news didnt make your paper like when 100 get laid off
If you are looking for SOD, His site is the same as his initials:
"Seeds Of Doubt"
Professional propagandist...
Well, What are we gonna do? My brother-in-law said ethanol was not the answer. I feel stupid calling the geophysicist and asking him about the oil. Hell, I just feel stupid around him period.
Where did the optimism come from? Well, I have this one thing I have always known...Americans don't give up. I have always seen that here where I live and in other towns. We just pick ourselves up and keep going...at least that is what I have noticed. I mean there are many days I and others want to say to hell with it all...then another damn day comes. And you knows what? We gotta keep going and trying.
SOD...seeds of doubt are said to come from the devil. He plants them when and where he can. I don't want to do that. I am just trying to ask and learn. Why? I don't know because it keeps me going.
I am living proof that good things can happen. I should be dead but I am not. Could die today or next year but I was given extra time to be with my daughter and maybe fix some things in life. Like try and not be so cynical...so forgive me if I fall back into that cynic mode every now and then.
Lisa,
Most of us will go back to driving a more fuel efficient version of the Chevy
Chevette. At $2 a gallon people will buy a car suitable for the annual family vacation. At 4 dollars a gallon they'll think about what they really need the car for on a daily basis and rent a vacation car when they go on vacation.
People will look to Europe and Japan and say gas price doen't change car purchasing decisions. When I was living in Japan all of my Japanese co-workers owned cars. They didn't drive them to work. They went on Picnics on the weekend with them.
As far as investing in more ethanol production. I grew in in cow and corn town. It's all condo's now. No cows. No corn. No farms.
We had 180 Million People living in America in 1960...we have 300 Million now..they all have to live somewhere and they all have to eat something.
3 Billion People living in the world in 1960, 6 billion now.
My better half can gets 3 tasty meals out of a whole chicken and some rice and noodles. 2 Chicken Dinners and a soup. Food is a fairly small part of our budget. She learned to cook from her mother...who lived thru the depression and WWII Germany.
I worry about the poor people...who already stretch a whole chicken to 6 meals if they have chicken at all.
I worry about a world where we spare the life of a child rapist.
Okay SD, My parents are worried about things now...
and BTW we ain't exactly rich.
Start shooting out the recipes to me.
my mom says she remembers her mom eating the backbone of the chicken so the rest of the family would have enough...and never complained.
Of course mawmaw had ovarian cancer and never a complaint did i hear.
I can make food stretch, it's getting from point a to point b that's gonna be tough on us and medicine cost an arm and a leg- one month of just one pill Plavix cost me over $140-and they don't have a generic...carpooling. This is not gonna be fun.
Lisa,
The Patent on Plavix expires in 2011.
Lipitor will expire in 2010. It doesn't help now...but knowing that the price of something you need will drop considerably in a couple of years allows for a bit of hope.
The only hope that the price of transporation fuel dropping is that people across the board have a serious rethink about how heavy a car they need to be driving.
I just ordered a "Highway Capable" scooter on the Internet for $1,500. Supposed to get 80 MPG. The one I had is only 50cc and can't manage more than 25 MPH carrying my fat backside up a slight hill.
The Car will be restricted to the driveway except going to the Lumber Yard and bad weather.
Well, I worry about Jess and Bob riding a scooter. We used to ride motorcycles when we were young but I am older now and I know what can happen. But ya know how I worry...We have got to come up with an alternative fuel. We have bound to be able to come up with something while waiting for the country to come up with something.
And the Plavix-the drs- all that is killing us. But it is something that has to be done.
Thanks for the info on the Plavix.
Let me know of any other good news-we need it. Just talked to mom and she said they would warn us when things get too bad...the government that is.
I told her we needed to start stocking up on groc and such because prices were going to soar.
...BTW somebody has a Russian Mig for sale on Ebay for $150,000...didn't know you could sell those on Ebay!
I just ordered a "Highway Capable" scooter on the Internet for $1,500. Supposed to get 80 MPG. The one I had is only 50cc and can't manage more than 25 MPH carrying my fat backside up a slight hill.
--------------
LOl- I refuse to put my fat rear on one...but I may have one of those side cars...wouldn't that be cool.
And you be careful going fast on the hwy. Geez...gotta worry about you too.
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