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Thank you for announcing your personal role in producing this "ad." Now I know where the hate and bigotry is coming from.
Bird of Paraddise |
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11.04.08 - 4:29 pm | #
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Hilarious. You're not bigoted for institutionalizing discrimination on an entire group of people, but I'm bigoted for...pointing out that you are? Fascinating how that works.
hekebolos |
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11.05.08 - 7:27 am | #
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Hey. Thanks for allowing comments. You come across as articulate and aware, and also committed to a cause you believe is right. But some of us who disagree with you fit the same description. I’m not sure how many friends you have who are religious, but many of us feel we have been backed into a corner by certain liberal lobbyists, by recent legal precedence, and by a teachers’ union who we feel shows so little respect for our long-held religious beliefs. Many of us have dear family and friends who are LGBT, and many people on both sides see this fight as lose-lose. We considered both sides gravely and thought through our civic duty carefully before we made our choice. I do wish you hadn’t created such a hurtful video.
MelanieB |
11.05.08 - 6:30 pm | #
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I think that this ad is very well produced, and I am so shocked and saddened by the results of the election.
I found your blog in an entirely separate search, however...and please feel free to delete this off-topic comment if it's not appropriate. I found a link to your entry that talks about your girlfriend being accepted to join the Peace Corps this past May. I am going to be headed off myself next June and am having such a difficult time finding any support or even discussion of maintaining long distance relationships. If it's not too intrusive, I would love to hear some of what you have to say about your experience, and maybe ask you some questions. If it IS too intrusive, then please accept my apologies!
Take care. 
Molly
Molly |
11.06.08 - 12:15 am | #
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If this ad is so wonderful and so what the people want....why did you pull it? Maybe because it is garbage and you are getting sued? Leave the Mormons alone, you lost.
Andrea |
11.10.08 - 9:29 pm | #
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Responding to comments here:
MelanieB: you have the right to practice your religion in peace. You're not being hemmed in by schools who instruct in science--we have an obligation to teach the best scientific explanations about the physical world. I think that schools also have an obligation to teach about religious doctrine, but indoctrination itself belongs in Sunday school. Not to mention, you have the right to withdraw your children from any class you find morally objectionable. As a matter of fact, the main lawyer for the Yes on 8 campaign made sure you had that right, which is what made the "Yes on 8" campaign ads claiming that your children will be indoctrinated into homosexuality all the more despicable. Taking away rights from an entire class of people doesn't help you in the least.
Molly: My gf didn't actually end up going, so I don't have any stories to tell! I wish I did--thanks for your kind note.
Andrea: I didn't pull the ad. YouTube has been glitchy with it. It's back up, as you can see. And nobody has any legal standing to sue based on this ad. It is clearly a parodic dramatization, with a disclaimer written into the ad.
You, however, are on the wrong side of history. We will win, you will lose. Just as you lost every single other piece of "traditional" culture your organization once so espoused (remember the fights against the Equal Rights amendment, or did that one just go down the memory hole?)
Those who oppose civil rights generally feel the execration of those whom they oppress. The LDS Church will is not alone in this regard.
hekebolos |
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11.11.08 - 7:19 pm | #
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The premise of your arguement is that gay marriage is a civil right. I think this all boils down to nature vs. nurture. Until science can prove that it is nature than the claim to a civil right doesn't hold.
Even so, I don't know if this qualifies as a civil right. So many feel that marriage is a right. This is the biggest fallacy of all. Let me make myself clear, marriage whether it be heterosexual, homosexual or lesbian is not a right. So what is a right? In my opinion, a right is that which one can perform with or without a government.
Let us just imagine that the government were to collapse today (I know not that hard to imagine). What would you still be able to do? Well, you still have the right to worship how and what you may, you have the right to gather and meet with groups of people, you have the right to possess a gun and you have the right to speak out in public. You also have the right to love each other- a right that is not under attack. Those are all things you can do without a government.
What would you not be able to do? You would not be able to get a driver's license, there would be no governmental body to issue it. No issuance of permits or protections of land ownership. There would be no social security cards issued. You wouldn't be able to get a passport or claim a nationality. Nor would you be able to receive a marriage certificate. Thus marriage is not a right. It is a privilege. As such the government has every right to issue privileges to those who qualify for the privilege (that's what medicare does). No one is taking or restricting rights. Even I, a heterosexual, have no right to get married. The government has set the precedent that marriage is not a right in the following laws:
Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act
Poland Act
Edmunds Act
Edmunds-Tucker Act
These restrict how and who one can marry. Legally the precedent is there.
The second fallacy is that churches have no right in a governmental policy.
Throughout the history of this country churches have played a strong role in government, for good and bad. Just think of William Bradford at Plymouth. The Catholics issued their Code of Canon Law in 1983 which describes how government and church should work together. Churches have the authority and responsibility to work within the government system to ensure that their parishioners religious rights are not infringed upon by government bodies. Churches provided a major role in the Civil Rights movement. Churches should maintain political neutrality however should not be required to maintain policy neutrality. Article Six of the Constitution reads that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States". The LDS church has never applied any such test for any candidate. They have every right to provide a test regarding policies.
Thus the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints not only has the right but obligation to it's followers to be a part of the political system in regards to policy. The LDS churches participation within Proposition 8 along with the 204 additional churches involved is not a conflict of church and state. Considering the financial and theological consequences to these denominations, Proposition 8 is actually an attempt to maintain separation between church and state. The First Amendment reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." No religious right can be compromised by law.
Your commercial brings this debate to the lowest common denominator- attacking a people not a policy. What do you intend to accomplish other than smearing others and doing harm for your side of the issue.
These things will never go away and my guess is you are correct- history will prove that gays will be able to wed. If you believe that as I do, then why attack others? Why bring down others along that road to what you want?
Arick |
11.25.08 - 4:23 pm | #
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