I am not au fait with holocaust denial. Where do the deniers think all the jews are? Or gypsies for that matter, not that anyone much gives a toss about them?
I imagine an important element of the punishment will involve the guards responding to Irving's complaints about being in prison with "No, you're not."
Or would that require Austrians to have a sense of humour?
(Seriously, tho, this is excessive and utterly foolish. Viva Western Enlightenment values!)
i can t baliev they jailed taht moron.
uif they go aruond jaolign moroons who among us is safe i ask u? eh? asnswer me that?
he're in teh usa we put morons in congars where they wont do any harm. i recamend it.
rob - 'no ur not!' - bravo!
I've taken a leaf out of Irving's book and denied my overdraft.
Did 6.8 million really watch celebrity Big Brother?
Why can't we put Evolution Deniers in jail?
Three deniers:-
Mahound Iminadinnerjacket - President of Iran. Would anyone expect otherwise?
Hamas - the government of Palestine. Who gives a damn what they think?
The UK government - according to Ahmad Thomson - member of the govt. taskforce on extremism, the holocaust is a 'big lie'.
There's been a holocaust?!?
I would have jailed him for the way he once described himself as a "three flush turd - I don't go away".
Hideous imagery should be punished.
jail for denying Santa I can understand but for the Holocaust?
The thing about the holocaust is that it's an old wives' tale, dressed up as history. One quick example as to why people are poking about to find out what actually happened: At Nuremberg, the commandant of Aushwitz confessed to murdering over three million people. They hanged him. Now, all these years on, a big sign on the wall outside Aushwitz commemorates the deaths of 1.5 million people there. The obvious question is, where the blue blazes are those missing 1.5 million victims?
If the political classes did bury their heads in the sand, they would be in significantly more danger from clumsy people carrying hot drinks.
Although, if ostrichs were among the animals to escape from zoos this might neutralise the increased threat from say, a chicken soup or Horlicks-based incident.
Of course, on sober reflection, I reject any conclusion that might caste doubt on the extent to which our heroic Jewish brethren suffered during WW11. I deny that I deny the holocaust. Let them have their fairytale. What can it hurt for them to believe as they do, in the unbelievable?
That Irving. What a wag. Anything for publicity. As soon as he's out, he'll be back in... the Big Brother house. Mind you, he'll have to explain what the Holocaust is to the other housemates, before he can get on and deny it.
Big Brother doesn't exist. Never happened.
I say, here's fun. Let's all pick a historical event to deny. I'll start. I deny the Congress of Vienna.
I've been denying the Norman Conquest for years.
Norman agrees, John.
I deny the peace of Westphalia.
(I deny the hunting ban every wednesday and Saturday, so that's not fair. )
You can't deny the Congress of Vienna and the Treaty of Westphalia. Unlike the alleged extermination program of the Nazis, we have the paperwork that proves they existed
I deny the War of the Spanish Succession! And the Don Pacifico incident!
I deny Margaret Thatcher was disgracefully removed from office by her own party. Like having your children through you out. No, this did not happen, she runs a parralell governmant on the London underground, and Pinochet, that mut, is still welcome.
Honey came in and she caught me red-handed creeping with the girl next door. I denied it vehemently, of course.
Yeah, right, Shaggy. Bet you tried to fob her off with some slipshod excuse.
It wasn't you?
Keep it light, boys, keep it lite...there's nothing to see here so just move along...fifty years of indoctrination has obviously done its work.
So, you were saying, Shaggy?
i deny that the act of union ever happened
"Halo caused de nile?"
If you can't admit that it's a river in Africa, and dat nothing caused it to exist, you probably should be locked up.
Sorry, Sol, you've caught us on a bad day. Normally there's nothing we enjoy more than uncovering Jew plots and having earnest debates about history with monomaniacs. But today, for some reason, my comments thread seems to have degenerated into a bunch of idiots trying to be funny.
Who dat kashberg fool?
He one heavy dude.
can't we talk about stalin now?everyone was on about hitler and the nazis yesterday aswell.
It's a valid point but you can also get in trouble for dumb stuff like not paying your taxes. According to this friend of mine.
War of Jenkins's Ear? Don't make me fucking laugh. That was just a marketing ploy to sell ears.
Oh well, that's alright then. You're trying to be funny. In that case, carry on.
Loved his Garp book, though.
I know of a guy who thinks that all of history before about 1710 is made up. He may be a nutter, but in any well-organised Historical Denial contest, he'd get a bye into the semis.
'Sol' - you try counting up to three million. It's not easy. Harder still if you've got your head in a bucket of water. Try it sometime.
Anyone know how to contact those actors that posed in all those Holocaust photos?
I'm busy documenting the hardships experienced by the Palestinians when the Israelis built that wall, and plan to submit a report to the UN human rights commission.
Q. Why did the chicken cross the road?
A. Because it saw the salad dressing.
Just a little joke there, for lite Tuesday. Tomorrow I've got some stuff about the Armenian genocide for you.
Q. Why did the Armenian genocide cross the road?
A. Because it too saw the salad dressing.
(Who wants to be the first to deny that the salad was dressing?)
The incaceration of David Irving suggests that being a twat has finally become a criminal offence. Huzzah! You think we can get that Blair chap on something similar?
Sol, ignore that last comment of mine. I am actually kind of curious to know what you think. You have a Jewish name, Haloscan says you're in Tel Aviv, but you don't believe there was a Holocaust?
"Sol Kashberg" has to be a Mossad provocateur. Danish newspaper offices are full of 'em.
There's fun bad taste and just plain bad taste. RobW's suggestion at the start was great, but after that the Volk - sorry, folk - started floundering somewhat.
Never mind that nonsense. Here's a 33lb cat.
I'd eat Baby Spice for starters - all the others look stringy. Green beans fried in garlic butter, sliced Hovis, cold spring water and dark chocolate in front of HIGNFY. If David Irving had denied anything else but the Holocaust, no-one would ever have heard of him. Why is there a separate category after "racism" for "anti-semitism"?
I deny bad vibes, man. It's all good, brother;
Depends what you mean by 'Holocaust', Harry. One man's holocaust, as they say...
You are an intriguing fellow. Please, say on.
Is Kashberg really a Jewish name? Which is to say, the name of an actual Jew, rather than a character from Brennessel or the funny pages of the Dearborn Independent?
You're too quick for me, RobW. They've trained you well, it seems. Be the love generation, Rob.
Reader 'Joe Moer' writes: Anyone know how to contact those actors that posed in all those Holocaust photos?
You can't contact them Joe. They're not acting, as you seem to think. They're dead. But my, look how thin they are! They must have been eating next to nothing for months, to get to that state. But hold on, the official story has them coming off the trains, straight into the gas chambers, doesn't it? Except for those fit for work. And you wouldn't starve your workers to death after carefully selecting them, would you? So we have another five-pipe problem: These dead bodies are obviously not fresh off the train, yet they're quite obviously unfit for heavy industrial labour. So who are they and why were they hanging around so long in such a skeletal state, when supposedly there was in place a policy to exterminate them willy nilly? I always think of Dr Who when people talk of extermination. "We will exterminate...we will exterminate.."
Uh huh. Of course, by that logic the Burma railway never happened.
As for the name, it's just that the "Kash" part struck me as sounding like a gag. If it really is a Jewish name after all, well, paint me purple and consider me better informed.
Re yer revisionism: please be more specific about what you think did happen and what you think didn't. Or not, I wouldn't want to coerce anybody.
No, he's not that interesting. The internet seems to be bad for some folks. That is a pretty fucking fat cat, mind.
Of course, the workers on the Burmese Railway had not been carefully selected by Dr Mengale though, were they? They comprised all the captured POWs. On the other hand, we are to believe the Germans chose only those prisoners fit for work (gassing all others immediately) and then proceeded to starve them to death.
Consider yourself purple.
What about all the survivors who were small children and spent three or four years in Aushwitz? Did they disguise themselves with platform shoes or wear false beards, to get past the selection?
As Eric Morecambe used to say, 'Life isn't Hollywood. Life is Cricklewood'.
The effects of all those movies is quite striking when you start talking with people.
sol, my dear chap, since you have access to the internet, you might try going to the primary sources, which are all on line.
I recommend in particular the transcripts of the various Nuremberg trials and the transcript of the trial of Adolph Eichmann, but there were plenty of other trials too, not to mention the testimony of various indivuals over the years, see for instance the film 'Shoah' if you are not impressed with the victims.
It features lots of interviews with the perpetrators too, who have no very obvious reason to lie about what they did, in fact many of them were proud of what they did.
At Auchswitz they were being supplied with a constantly expanding workforce, to the point where frequent selections were made of prisoners for extermination in order to make way for others.
By the end of the war there were quite a few children at Auchswitz, for, among other reasons, the fact that their small hands were useful for certain types of work, and also that the gas chambers were hastily dismantled when it looked like Germany was going to lose the war, however many prisoners died in the forced march when Auchswitz was partly evacuated, and from disease and overcrowding in other camps, such as Bergan-Belsen, to which they were sent.
There certainly have been liars, charlatans and chancers who pretended they were in the camps since then, but the Holocaust is the best documented account of mass murder there has ever been.
Bringing it back to comedy for a moment, the account of Irving failing to sue Lipstadt, contained in Richard Evans' book _Telling Lies About Hitler_ is actually quite funny.
If, that is, you like to watch pompous Nazis over-reach themselves when they get caught telling porkies. And who doesn't? Aside from 'Sol', obviously.
My dad swears blind the moon landings were staged. However, for me it has to be the Peasants' Revolt, which allegedly began in the small Essex village of Fobbing ('Fobbing'!) in May 1381.
Don't believe a bloody word of it. Utter horseshit.
Did it ever leave comedy?
Thousands of people confessed to being witches, too. Why was that? As I mentioned earlier, Hoess, the commandant at Aushwitz, confessed to killing three million plus people. That's from the transcripts you recommended PMJ. But nobody today believes this to be true. How did such a colossal mistake occur, on such an important matter? It wasn't a casual affair, taking notes on the back of a cigarette packet. This was an international tribunal.
Yes, that's right. The evil Nazis, conscious of their own devilishness, hastily dismantled the gas chambers, so nobody would find out how evil they had been. It didn't occur to the stupid Nazis that people would say: 'They tried to gas me!'. No, they believed it would all just go away if they dynamited a few gas chambers. Plus, the whole gassing procedure was kept secret, somehow, for four years, covering approximately 12,000 gassing operations. Nobody wrote a word about it, or took a snapshot through the evil peepholes. Funny that German soldiers, (and everyone else) felt free to take pictures of hangings, shootings, beatings, arrests, etc...but not one single naughty soldier ever thought, 'I'll risk it and take a snap of an actual gassing taking place'.
How did they decide which children they would keep for their small hands? Don't all children have small hands?
Why did Eichmann visit Palestine and learn Hebrew and Yiddish? The officially sanctified explaination for these things is that he studied these hated languages, the better to know those he planned to exterminate. What tosh! It's like claiming that the pilots of the planes that dropped the atomic bombs needed to study Japanese, the better to know those they planned to exterminate. You don't have to speak Hebrew in order to just push everyone in the gas chamber, do you?
Just after the war, there were around 200,000 people claiming to be survivors of Nazi death camps. Today there are over a million, according to the Spielberg Foundation. How can that be? If it makes any sense to you at all, then I pray for you.
Anyone else got a picture of a fat cat? What about Sir John Harvey-Jones, we was a right fat-as-fuck cat!
Or that CBI bloke? Digby Doodah? Which is kind of weird, coz everyone knows that Digby's a dog's name, isn't it?
Louis Armstrong was probably a fat cat too. Er, man.
Another thing: Why, if as is often alleged, Hitler spent years before the war telling everyone what he had planned for the Jews, would he become all coy and bashful and try to cover it all up later on?
The Fat Cat is emphatically NOT a real ale pub in Sheffield.
http://www.thefatcat.co.uk/
shame you can only type on t'internet. at the moment i'd liek to moon you all, and then run off giggling like a hyperactive child.
Of course, being Jewish myself, I'm what's called 'fireproof'. But you kids out there, reading this, you best leave it all alone or you could end up in a cell with Irving. What a hidious thought!
i'm sick of talking about jews and holocausts. can't we talk about bees and flowers instead?
Bees - yes - now those are the *real* criminals. Serial rapists, every one of them. Those poor flowers are scarred for life. And yet they call *Nazis* criminals. Is that fair, Sol? Eh? Eh?
You make a cogent case, Ivan. Bees could indeed stand some looking into. But if you ask me, flowers are asking for it, tarted up like that, with all their petals open.
did anyone else notice how no one ever actually saw hitler and stalin in the same room at the same time, think about it.
they were probally many comical mrs doubtfire incidents were hitler accidentily started addressing the german soldiers while dressed as stalin, oh the confusion
No,I saw them together in a room once. I was working as a butler and I served them drinks , vodka for Joe, aqua-libra for Adolph. But I'm only a Jew so nobody believes me.
Anybody else out there without a foreskin? Oh how wonderful it is to have one's glans exposed by surgery for all the World to gape at. I defy anyone of you fuckers to contradict me on that.
this kashburg chap is starting to get on my nerves. but maybe thats what he wants- maybe hes the new jeremy beadle. only jewish.
but still not funny, just mildly irritating, like when you do a wee and then discover that there are little drops of wee all over your jeans afterwards.
There you go, idiot. Another benefit of having your sexual organs mutilated! You just keep putting your foot in it, don't you?
Nor in Norwich.
http://www.fatcatpub.co.uk/
first denying the holocaust and now using the f word tsk tsk it depresses me to see the once well groomed and well respected holocaust deniers have fallen when i see them using such vulgarity
sol, this is not the place to debate the Holocaust, but just to refute one of your points, Rudolf Hoess never claimed 3 million people died at Auschwitz. He claimed that Eichmann told him that 2.5 - 3m people died, but that he himself did not believe that, his words were that 'not even Auschwitz could do that'.
I don't believe that Irvine has been jailed.
No law against it is there?
I deny with my little eye something beginning with SK!
Hint: he may be Jewish.
PMJ, so why did Hoess sign a confession where he admits responsibility for the deaths of 2.5 million by gassing and .5 million by other means? I mean, the confession is freely available to read. All this 'he said, she said' smokescreen stuff just won't wash. The man signed a bogus confession. Why?
chimps not as stupid as we first thought:
http://news.independent.co.uk/
en...ticle346726.ece
still though, a big twig and a small twig; its not exactly 20th century civil engineering is it? personally, i refuse to be impressed by any technological feat inferior to that of frank crowe's hoover dam:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_Dam
i suppose the first big step for chimps will be when they learn how to manufacture their own tyres for their swings. but thats still a long way off by the looks of things.
Just wait until Harry gets back from his classes. He'll knock some sense into you all.
hey we could crank up teh exitmant evan furter an talk abuot star trek trivia. gentalmen i submit taht picard cuold whup kirks ass. rafute me if you can! i can name evary acter who was in episode 12 off the top of my head. can you? no? than u must amit that my ovarwhelming domain expertise lends a sertan cerdability to my asertions.
silance will be takan as a cowardly admisoin that my logic is irafutable.
How different the world might have been if he had been born Irving David. And when is someone going to jail Derry Irvine?
What's the deal with Hypocaust denial anyway? How can anyone hate central heating?
david irving was in star trek?
picard massacred jews?
Raul Hilberg said that Holocaust deniers, like all devil’s advocates, perform a useful role, because they force people to go back and check their sources and reconsider things they thought were obvious.
Trouble is, I can’t be fucked. Trying to refute all of that would take days. But I can do one of them off the top of my head. There hasn’t been any suspicious increase in Holocaust survivors. People are just using “survivors” to mean different things. It used to refer to people liberated from the camps, but then people who escaped to Russia etc., also got involved in compensation claims and call themselves Holocaust survivors, which in a way they are.
But the inflation of the figures is the work of lawyers, the Spielberg Foundation, and people like that, not serious historians. It’s not as if Hilberg and the boys have suddenly changed their story.
Hey Sol, did all the pogroms happen, or did the Jews make those up too?
The question assumes that the Jews actually are the Jews rather than clever impostors, as some scholars assert. I mean, this official story that the Jews are the Jews, it's a bit "pat", isn't it? And since the "official story" is always put about by somebody with an agenda, well, you can understand my concern.
If the Jews aren't really the Jews, then it becomes possible that the Holocaust was real. Possibly the fake Jews engineered it to get rid of the real ones.
Who are the real Jews then? In Melvin Kaminsky's excellent and informative documentary about the American Southwest, a Native American is observed speaking Yiddish. Just that one little tidbit of evidence blows the lid off the whole charade, doesn't it?
P.S. Kirk could take Picard without breaking a sweat.
So you're saying the historians working for the Speilberg Foundation are a bunch of amateurs?
Isn't that a bit racialist, young Harry?
Bore, (you know who you are, I suppose), nobody is denying any pogroms, assaults, funny looks etc, directed at the Jews throughout the centuries. Yes, even the English once (twice actually) expelled the Chosen Ones from the sceptic isle. In fact more than seventy nations have expelled the Jews in all. The question is why? If a stranger punched you out of the blue, you could put that down to him being a cunt. But if you went to over seventy different bars, and everywhere some bastard got up and smacked you one, you might begin to ask yourself, 'where am I going wrong?'
Or maybe you'd decide to just leave Essex for good
I thought I knew who I was. Then I began to sense flaws and contradictions in the official story.
But anyway. Maybe it wasn't the real Jews who were expelled from all those places, but the impostors. In that case, it might've been the real Jews who expelled them, which would mean that the impostors are blameless after all.
The fact remains that you've given me no reason whatsoever to imagine that the Jews aren't somebody else entirely. You've simply dodged the question. You're also a bit glib about those seventy-odd nations expelling the putative Jews. Have you examined all the primary sources, with sufficient attention to be sure there aren't any inconsistencies, contradictions, or mistakes? You've accepted those stories very casually at face value. Is that really an appropriate way for a critical scholar to behave?
Dey expella da Joos, becozza dey don' assimilate. First dey refuzza da worship de noble Roman gods, den dey refuzza da worship da saviour Jesus and de Holy Mama Virgin. And dey weir deir silly hats and da beards also and hava de silly passover. An dey too clever and maka too much pasta and linguine, which a makin de hard workin' boys in the black shirts plenty angry.
But earnestly though, Harry, you mention Raul Hilberg, and yes, he's a fairly honest cove. He belongs to what's called the 'functionalist' stream of holocaust scholars. Basically, his people accept fully that there was never any plan, budget, blueprint or policy to exterminate the Jews. So, you might ask, how do the functionalists explain the operation of such a huge undertaking as the industrial scale murder of six million people over four years, involving hundreds of personel, trains, engineering equipment and so on? Well, Hilberg puts it down to what he calls 'long distance telepathy'. It's funny, British Rail can't get the trains to run on time even with a plan! So there's your 'functionalists'. Very mystical, esoteric sort of thinkers over there. On the other end you have your 'intentionalists'. These are just loonies who go around saying "We will exterminate, we will exterminate!"
Bore, which stories has anyone accepted at face value? England didn't expell the Jews? Ditto every other country they've ever lived in? Shaw once said that Ireland was the only European country to never have expelled its Jews. That's because they never let the buggers in in the first place, he added.
For those who are interested, the decision to exterminate the Jews ("the final solution") was agreed by senior Nazi officials at the Wannsee conference in January 1942. More details at the wikipedia link below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Wan...nsee_Conference
Sol, you've accepted at face value the ridiculous assertion that these people claiming to be the Jews (still waiting for you to stop dodging that issue, Sol) have been expelled from seventy-odd different countries. You admit that you've seen no proof.
In fact, when I ask these questions, you go a bit vague, don't you? You start sliding around, pretending not to understand me, and making flip remarks. Do I detect a light sweat breaking out on the Kashbergian forehead?
I don't deny that some people, who may have been posing as Jews, or who may have been Jews posing as somebody else (perhaps as different Jews, or as red Indians) may have been expelled from one place or another at some time, but you've given me no reason to consider it a certainty, much less any reason to believe the "strong version" with all seventy nations.
That quote was Mr Deasy in Ulysses.
Tell us a joke Harry.
I went to the doctor. He said "You've got cancer". I said, "I want a second opinion." He said "all right, you're ugly as well".
Ba-doom, ba-doom, tish!
I went to the doctor. I said "Look, Doc! My tongue? It's yellow - what should I do?" He said, "Don't wear a brown tie."
Zing!
And when they came to take me away there was nobody left to protest.
Free David Irving. What are THEY frightened of?
Harry, have you noticed that one of the contributors to this thread has made remarks which many readers may find offensive?
I refer, of course, to the appropriately named 'idiotidiotidiot' and his disgusting, racist comment about chimpanzees. What happened to your policy of having comments moderated?
Surely you're not suggesting there's something moderate about this blog, GB, me ole simian friend.
Sorry I didn't post any posts today. I'm ought to compile a Hall of Shame of people who don't reply to anonymous crank emails. These people are making life impossible.
Holocaust Denial...
According to Wikipedia, "Historical revisionism of some issues (such as the Holocaust), in some countries, is a criminal offense."
If things ever get slow around here, Harry, all you need do is post something about the holocaust. (Is there a capital H there?) 100 comments? Well, blow me down. Who would have thought such a topic would arouse such interest.
Harry,
I am ready for some gratuitous images of sultry Latino-commie-babes, and alcohol, if possible. Denial is not an option...
I don't want photos of latino commie-babes. I want advance warning of where they are going to turn up next, especially if it is one of those places I can get to cheaply.
This is entirely for the purposes of my bona fide and above board researches.
I am highly respected in my field, which is currently full of turnips in Essex.
"That quote was Mr Deasy in Ulysses."
That's deasy for you to say.
I went to the Doctor and said "Doc I neeed you to have a look at my cock".
He took down my pants and subjected it to a variety of tests. He then said "I can tell you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your cock".
I said "I know that, isn't it a f...g beauty".
I do hope SK really is Jewish, it would be most disappointing if he was just another of these goyisch revisionists; they're such dullards. Jewish revisionists definitely put more thought into it. My favourite example was something I saw in some doco a few years ago. A young Jewish chap (the name of everyone in this anecdote permanently escapes me) had made a video of himself and a prominent denier (Canadian fellow? had a newsletter called Samizdat or some such?) taking a tour round one of the old camps and pointing out its features. I was filled with the purest delight when the young man pointed at the remains of some bricklined pits and remarked "And here's where they had the swimming-pool."
Bring on the commulitas!
Back to denier. I use 20-denier in the summer, but when it gets a bit chillier I tend to head into my 100-deniers.
This may provide you with a clue that like Sol, I don't, in fact, have a foreskin.
What spin does this denial denial put on the whole Blair vs Hitler debate?
(that would be Tone vs Ade to their friends)
Bit difficult to see with 100 deniers on though isn't it aunty? Why not just pull a few bigger bank heists in the warmer months & lie low over the winter months? Plus, the rozzers will be too busy with schoolkids setting light to things to worry about a solitary lady blagger.
RobW's sychophancy toward the Chosen People is very touching. Do you think he really believes all that guff about our being cleverer than everyone else? No need for anymore bumsucking, RobW. We're all Jews nowadays, didn't you hear?
By the way, Rob, the young Jew you mention is David Cole. He also recanted his views when the inquisition came-a-calling. Broke down in tears, signed a retraction, the full monty.
And the pile of bricks you mention is in fact the very well preserved swimming pool, where according to many survivor's accounts, water-polo matches and swimming contests were held on Sundays. If you go there you'll see it's a standard thirty metre affair, with concrete plinths where once the diving boards were fixed. Of course, such an item was a little difficult to explain, in such surroundings. The Aushwitz authorities came up with the solution of affixing a sign to the pool saying: 'Fire brigade reservoir built in the shape of a swimming pool, probably around 1944'. Those evil Nazis! Teasing the prisoners with a swimming pool decoy!!
Mr Kashberg's being a little cute when he implies Holocaust historians try to pass off the pool as an odd-shaped fire brigade reservoir. A quick google clarifies that its use as a recreational pool by the guards is comprehensively referred to, so not quite the conspiracy of silence he suggests.
A swimming pool... Good God.
Oh, and, SK, that bit when you pretended to miss obvious irony ... extremely cheesy, mon frere. Really.
Jokes, please. STAT!
I thought irony was sort of subtle by definition, isn't it? If you're searching for an effective voice, RobW, then obvious sarcasm or obvious rudeness may be more in your line. Obvious irony is a non-starter.
Harry's the English teacher. He'd know. Harry, can something be ironic and obvious at the same time? I'm only a Jew so nobody listens to me
An extract from the diary of Lieutenant Colonel Mervin Willett Gonin DSO who was among the first British soldiers to liberate Bergen-Belsen in 1945.
(and Banksy's manifesto)
Camp
I can give no adequate description of the Horror Camp in which my men and myself were to spend the next month of our lives. It was just a barren wilderness, as bare as a chicken run. Corpses lay everywhere, some in huge piles, sometimes they lay singly or in pairs where they had fallen. It took a little time to get used to seeing men women and childen collapse as you walked by them and to restrain oneself from going to their assistance. One had to get used early to the idea that the individual just did not count. One knew that five hundred a day were dying and that five hundred a day were going on dying for weeks before anything we could do would have the slightest effect. It was, however, not easy to watch a child choking to death from diptheria when you knew a tracheotomy and nursing would save it, one saw women drowning in their own vomit because they were too weak to turn over, and men eating worms as they clutched a half loaf of bread purely because they had to eat worms to live and now could scarcely tell the difference. Piles of corpses, naked and obscene, with a woman too weak to stand proping herself against them as she cooked the food we had given her over an open fire; men and women crouching down just anywhere in the open relieving themselves of the dysentary which was scouring their bowels, a woman standing stark naked washing herself with some issue soap in water from a tank in which the remains of a child floated. It was shortly after the British Red Cross arrived, though it may have no connection, that a very large quantity of lipstick arrived. This was not at all what we men wanted, we were screaming for hundreds and thousands of other things and I don't know who asked for lipstick. I wish so much that I could discover who did it, it was the action of genius, sheer unadulterated brilliance. I believe nothing did more for these internees than the lipstick. Women lay in bed with no sheets and no nightie but with scarlet red lips, you saw them wandering about with nothing but a blanket over their shoulders, but with scarlet red lips. I saw a woman dead on the post mortem table and clutched in her hand was a piece of lipstick. At last someone had done something to make them individuals again, they were someone, no longer merely the number tatooed on the arm. At last they could take an interest in their appearance. That lipstick started to give them back their humanity.
***
I met a guy in Israel once who showed me the tattoo on his arm. I believed him.
Wheee! This is more fun than Mel Gibson's remake of Pasqualino Settebellezze in the original Latin.
Stevo, you're no doubt aware that nobody is claiming that anyone was ever gassed at Belsen. The scene you present is a true one. Only a fool would deny that starvation and typhus decimated the camp prisoners and to some extent the surrounding population in Germany proper towards the end of WW11. The famous piles of bodies phographs you've seen are all taken from the camps at Bergen-Belsen and Dachau. Neither location is an alleged gassing site.
As a matter of fact, my landlady Miriam was a prisoner at Belsen. She's a nice old bird, and she certainly has too much dignity to indulge in the malicious, ill-natured gossip that has flourished and become the monster we know as 'The Holocaust'. She sees it more as, 'They didn't like us, they put us in camps and made us work. The food wasn't the best. The hours were shitty. But then the war was over and thank God, when we came out we found we had a brand new country, all for ourselves.
The erstwhile Israeli Ambassador to Brazil found that last point very helpful recently, when the Brazilian vice-squad were on his tail for child-pornography charges. He was safely back in Israel before you could say 'Jack Robinson'. Phew! It was close, though.
The sooner Sol's ankle heals and he's back playing in the Arsenal back four the better. He's got too much time on his hands.
My name is Ben Elton! Goodnight!
We really have managed to lobotomize you people without you noticing, haven't we?
if by 'lobotomize' you mean 'bore the shit out of', then yes, i concur.
What's this? Antisemitism rearing its ugly head again?
Bigotry on Harry's blog? I thought we were all kosher here. I'll have to report this to the ADL.
With Harry's past association with the BNP, I'd say we're looking at a good two to three years, minimum. See what you've done, 'idiotidiot'? It's like Wilde's poem, where he says 'each man kills the thing he loves'. You didn't mean to hurt Harry's blog. You were just doing what you think he'd have done if he'd been here. You're like Mickey Mouse in the Scorcerer's Apprentice, trying to sweep all the water back out. You'll be for it when he sees the mess you've made. He's only an English teacher, for Christ's sake! He doesn't want million dollar lawsuits landing on his welcome mat. And you'll be off scott free, like young Bosie, the wretched fop.
Here's what Wikipedia says about the Wannsee protocol, agreed at the meeting of Nazi bigwigs in January 1942:
The formal minutes of the meeting ("protocol") state that the purpose of the meeting to coordinate the action of the concerned ministries to implement the "Final Solution." This protocol was prepared by Adolf Eichmann aided by Reinhard Heydrich, SS chief Heinrich Himmler's head deputy and head of the Reich Main Security Office. The meeting summary notes that the strategy of removing the Jews from the Nazi German state was changing from encouraging emigration to requiring deportation, forced work and systematic killing.
The combination of measures described in the protocol — deportation, forced work and systematic killing — were interrelated in the Nazi state's genocidal policy. Deportation was not an end in itself. Forcibly transportating the Jews out of the territories held or conquered by Germany and its allies was a measure taken not simply to remove Jews from Nazi controlled territory but to better facilitate organizing those deported into work brigades. The work brigades fulfilled two primary purposes simultaneously. Forced labor was to be focused upon large-scale infrastructure projects, specifically road construction, but also other forms of slave labor. This work was expected to be performed under grueling and punishing conditions and was expected to result in the deaths of "a large number of them." Those that survived these conditions were to be killed. ("Those who ultimately will possibly get by will have to be given suitable treatment..."). The protocol makes clear that "special treatment" was a synonym for "killing," as Eichmann later admitted at his trial. Within a year, as the Holocaust accelerated, most Jews would be immediately killed upon arrival at the Nazi death camps, rather than being first organized into work groups.
And here's wikipedia quoting from Himmler's Poznan speech delivered in October 1943:
I also want to mention a very difficult subject before you here, completely openly.
It should be discussed amongst us, and yet, nevertheless, we will never speak about it in public....
I am talking about the “Jewish evacuation”: the extermination of the Jewish people.
It is one of those things that is easily said. "The Jewish people is being exterminated,” every Party
member will tell you, 'perfectly clear, it's part of our plans, we're eliminating the Jews, exterminating
them, ha!, a small matter.…
he might have been just kidding
Hey Sol, were the Jews behind 9/11 and the Bali bombing?
Harry, I am shocked by your obvious anti-Semitism. And your commenters, too. Latinas are good and all, but what's wrong with Jewish babes in tight outfits, eh?
Jewish babes in tight outfits?
Where?
'Bore', what on earth makes you think that the Jews are behind the terrorist acts you mention? Do you have some information you want to share with us?
Really though, it's obvious that Abacus is very impressed with Wikipedia. He quotes it as though it carried the scholarly weight and integrity of something really heavy like, say, MSN or the History Channel.
Sol, what on Earth makes you think I'm the kind of flake who believes that stuff?
You, however, are a flake of that very description! So I figured I'd ask. I meant no offense; I'm just curious about where exactly you lapse back into reality as the rest of us know it.
"Intelligent design" enthusiasts, for example, don't stay up late inventing excuses not to believe in physics. When it comes to physics, they're as satisfied with common sense as the rest of us.
Let me see, Bore, so you're trying to equate the laws of physics with the laws of Wikipedia?
You like to believe that you are safe behind your intellectual mask, but it's too late, Bore. The cat's out of the bag now, isn't it? Underneath, you harbour the same cowardly malice towards the Jews as the Nazis and RobW.
And who is this you refer to as 'the rest of us'? The other members of Hull Polytechnic's Student Union?
I'm sorry, Harry, but since I first tried to take part in your comments thread I've met with nothing but abuse and insult. I've been called a liar, a flake and a bore, and been offered only sarcastic, hurtful responses when I tried to talk about a painful subject, the holocaust. As soon as I had identified myself as a Jew, a few of your readers were onto me like a rash, smearing, distorting, accusing and insulting. It was like nothing I said mattered to them. All they could see was an enemy. I don't like to name names, but RobW seems particularly virulent in his Jew-hatred.
Harry I know there's not so much you can do personally to fight this kind of bigotry, but perhaps you could have a quiet word with a few of your acolytes, before things get out of hand?
Y'know, calling me an "intellectual" won't piss me off enough to distract me. I've been called worse.
So is this whole thing a put-on? I don't suppose you'd admit it if it were. I used to, back when I did that sort of thing, but that's just me.
In any case, you're too rigid about ignoring questions. It gets tedious when somebody's afraid to leave the script.
The wounded accusations of anti-semitism are a charmingly surreal touch, by the way.
Really? which questions have I side-stepped, Bore? Don't imagine for a moment that you're fooling anyone with your thinly veiled contempt for the Jewish people. Funny, it's often the intellectuals such as Bore who're the worst antisemites.
Please explain to us all what, exactly, is charming or 'surreal' when a Jew is wounded by hatred? This just gets worse and worse, doesn't it?
I'll have you know, Sol, that some of my best friends are intellectuals, through no fault of their own. They deserve better than your crude insinuations.
"Since I first tried to take part in your comments thread I've met with nothing but abuse and insult. I've been called a liar, a flake and a bore, and been offered only sarcastic, hurtful responses"
Ooooh you haven't! I distinctly remember nicely calling you an intriguing fellow and asking you to tell us more! The fact that you are liar, flake and bore only became apparent subsequently. Anyway, cheer up, it's a lovely day and you can't win 'em all, can you?
Sol, I also challenge your cruel attempt to compare the Nazis to RobW. They, at least, did not precede capital letters with non-whitespace characters. Had they done so, they'd've been no better than mere Irishmen, and I'd grant you'd have had a pretty good point.
david c, I believe you've brought this thread to its 150th post! Hooray, I knew you could do it.
That guy Sol owes you one.
Actually, you're right, David C. In fact your comment about denying your overdraft really brightened my day. So, no, you'll not be summoned like the other miscreants.
Sol, have you ever thrust out your hips and swirled your semi tumescent member round and round through 360 degrees? It is called "windmilling" and I do it, facing the rising sun, each morning. One finds that doing it religiously, over a period of years, as one has, provides one with remarkable equilibrium. Give it a go.
Now it's all coming out. Pagan rituals, Sun worship. You read about these things, but they're still going on. No need to get shirty, David C. You're off the hook, unlike that pair of poltroons RobW & Idiotitiot. They're in the soup good and proper.
No, they're not!
Liar, flake and bo-ore!
Liar, flake and bo-ore!
By the way David C, you've one too many 'ones' there. Your penultimate personal pronoun ought to be an 'I', as you're giving a personal example, rather than suggesting that we have all been waving our willies at the Sun for years. It's just you, I'm afraid, David. The rest of us are asleep at dawn. Lesson: Better stick to funny one-liners. It gets too choppy out there, once you start joining sentences.
Liar, flake and bo-ore!
Sol, you spelt "hideous" wrongly in one of your posts.
"Of course, being Jewish myself, I'm what's called 'fireproof'. But you kids out there, reading this, you best leave it all alone or you could end up in a cell with Irving. What a hidious thought!"
"One feels at I with one who once..."
Nope, not gonna go. Leave the penultimate pronoun alone. It's got troubles enough already.
Spelling doesn't really matter, though, does it? I mean, in the same way that grammar does? It's like handwriting; you often find bank clerks with the perfectly neat handwriting of the illiterate.
BTW, if anyone out there would like to be my bitch, you know, just to go through my vast quantities of prose looking for spelling mistakes, then there may be an opening for one of Harry's students. I assume you are all Harry's students, aren't you? You're obviously not using your first languages.
No, "as one has, provides one with remarkable equilibrium." ought to read, "as I have, provides one with remarkable whatnot". I should have said 'the one before last'. My mistake. I'm only a Jew though. Did I mention that?
"the perfectly neat handwriting of the illiterate."
I've heard that before. Orwell, I think, although you've added 'perfectly' for some reason. When was the last time you saw the handwriting of a 'bank clerk' in this day and age?
No, of course spelling doesn't matter, Sol.
Whatever you say matters, matters.
Whatever you say doesn't matter, doesn't matter.
I think we all understood this game by now.
Go on, make up your next rule.
Liar, flake and bo-ore!
Liar, flake and bo-ore!
Well, as we say here in the Promised Land, 'If you're right, you're right'. I think you meant, "I think we all understand this game by now.". It doesn't matter, though.
My cousin is a bank clerk. He's as thick as shit. I've seen his handwriting and it's like copperplate. You see what I mean?
My next rule is that nobody is allowed to use phrases like 'in this day and age'. What is this, the Radio Times?
"My cousin is a bank clerk".
But my dear fellow, how convenient. Like this landlady of yours who so enjoyed herself at Belsen, now I come to think about it.
I'm off to the cockfights, nice weekend all.
C writes: "I think we all understood this game by now". Apart from his atrocious grammar, which I corrected for him above,is he buying into that old canard about Jews controlling everything? Isn't it a bit paranoid to suggest that, just because I'm Jewish, I'm trying to dominate or control everything? It's the same old slur that's been made against my people for centuries.
Harry's probably off doing research for his rebuttal this afternoon. Not that I'd heard there was anything wrong with his original butt.
Are you sure? I thought it was that you had big noses? Wasn't that the slur?
Sol, I am a "she", not a "he". Why do you buy into that old canard that men control everything?
It's the same old slur that's been made against my gender for centuries.
This is the first time you've addressed me, Septimus. It's too early to jump in with accusations based on any previous chats we've had. Anyway, with a name like that, are you quite sure you're not an 'it'?
My next rule is that nobody is allowed to use the by-now tired expression, 'buying into'. I used it once, Septimus followed suit, and that's it for today, ok?
And no, Septicus, the chief slur was not about noses. Do you really think Hitler went to war over the size of Jews' noses? Is that what they tell you on the History Channel?
Harry's biding his time, choosing his moment. He's not a fucking amateur like you lot.
He'll get to the bottom of it, even if it kills him. He very thorough.
Harry is busy sending spoof e-mails and thinking up new posts, you sad, pathetic wacko. Haven't you realised by now that no one here is remotely interested in your views and those who have bothered to respond are just playing you for laughs? Now run along and find a more suitable blog for your profound historical insights.
Are you really Widney Houston? I'd heard you were a bit antisemetic but this is solid proof if ever I saw it. PJM wasn't laughing when he did all his research at Wikipedia. He was deadly serious.
So how the mighty have fallen, Ms Houston! From international songstress to Harry Hutton's agent/girlfriend...
I'll be adding your name, Widney, to the ever growing harvest of Jew Baiters we're collecting from Harry's readership. With your eloquence and style, no doubt you'll be representing yourself in court, you big girl's blouse.
Do you sit beside him while he works, Widney? Take his little dog for walks? You sound so protective toward him. Are you in fact, Harry's Mother?
Great to see you going after the hard targets on Harry's blog for "antisemitism" rather than those softcocks in Tehran and on the military council of Hezbollah.
I wouldn't say Widney's a 'hard target' exactly. We've got her number. Not like that RobW. He's a slippery fish, like Osama Bin Laden. But you're right, we weedle them all out eventually, wherever they're hiding. Widney! Take Harry's dog out before it pisses on his carpet!
But the antisemites of Tehran aren't hiding. Nor in Saudi, Yemen or Syria. Off you go. Go wheedling there...
No, I want to keep babbling on this website, even when no one is listening!
Yadda yadda!
Yadda!
Bleah! Urgh. Oop. Glug glug.
You still think there's a danger from Arabs, or from Iran? It's exactly here, in the hinterlands of Essex and Norfolk, in the silent bedrooms of people like RobW (by the way Rob does the 'W' stand for 'Wonker' or something?), that the real threats lurk. Not to worry, though. the 'People of the Book' are wide awake to all their tricks. Thanks for your support, anyway Septimus.
Now Widney is pretending to be me. How hilarious! What an uproar that must have created in the Student's Union. You fellows are too wild for me. But I haven't survived three thousand years of persecution just to be insulted by sociology undergraduates, I'm afraid. So get out your lipstick, Widney, you gimp!
Dum de dum. Dum de dum. I love you all! I love you all!
Will not one of you stand up and give a Jew support when he's being vilified in a public domain such as this? You just stand there with your mouths hanging open while thugs like Widney and RobW kick the shit out of me! Where's all the famous English love for the underdog gone? Widney! Harry's finished now, you can bring the toilet roll.
That's it, try to freeze me out with your icy British reserve. God, I understand more and more why we needed a country of our own.
my name is sol kashberg and i am a big silly person and i am sorry for annoying everyone
Sol you daft jew i still luv ya baby
I love you too, Jim. Thanks. And Widney! Take off that stupid diguise, you big ninny! If you can't contribute anything positive you don't have to post at all, you know? Throwing insults and hate isn't the way grown ups settle disputes.
I love you too, Jim. Thanks. And Widney! Take off that stupid diguise, you big ninny! If you can't contribute anything positive you don't have to post at all, you know? Throwing insults and hate isn't the way grown ups settle disputes.
my name is sol kashberg and i spend my entire weekends at home covered in my own faeces and sucking my mothers teet
No, Widney, that's my post. Your's goes :"Bleah! Urgh. Oop. Glug glug."
Remember?
Oops! Sorry. That should be "yours" not "your's". My grammar is perfect but my punctuation is not. Silly me!
Tee hee.
Ooooooooh.
No, Widney, that's my post. Your's goes :"Bleah! Urgh. Oop. Glug glug."
Remember?
Oops!Sorry. That should be "yours" not "your's". My grammar is perfect but my punctuation is not. Silly me!
Tee hee.
Ooooooooh.
This is just silly. Can't you step out from behind your false name and just confront me like an adult, Widney? Are you so frightened of making a horse's arse of yourself that you confine your responses to drivel, so nobody will see the mind of the real Widney exposed?
I write this as a fellow human being, here. OK, and as a Jew too. But for the sake of all that's Holy, can't we reach peace together?
Can't you put aside your antisemitic feelings for a minute and just talk as yourself? This war is hell!
my name is sol kashberg and i have no willy tee hee
Can't you put aside your antisemitic feelings for a minute and just talk as yourself? This war is hell!
i no longer luv ya any more old sol this new sol a completly different type of man, a real man
Can't you put aside your antisemitic feelings for a minute and just talk as yourself? This war is hell!
They got to you, too, Jim? I thought we had it going on there for a minute. I'm still fond of you, though. But I'll respect your decision.
see what i mean whereas your typing away like a jibber jabbering fool he's just cutting and pasting, clever and economical, what a guy
But Jim, he's just repeating what I say. Is that clever, really? I mean, I could cut and paste an entire telephone directory onto this thread. But in the words of your Lord Jesus, what would that profit me?
for a second there i thought orig sol and jim had a thing going there then that new and improved Sol comes along and ruins everything flashing his shit all over town like he owns the joint
Don't get sucked into their trap, Jim. There are no short cuts. Eventually, when the dust settles, there'll have to be a dialogue of some kind. Peace.
But Jim, he's just repeating what I say. Is that clever, really? I mean, I could cut and paste an entire telephone directory onto this thread. But in the words of your Lord Jesus, what would that profit me?
Oh come on now an entire telephone directory, theres simply not enough room on a post, i know you miss jim but dont promise the impossible
For the true dimensions of Harry's blog we'd need to consult Widney. She's very big on Hutton trivia.
HAT GOES ON HEAD BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
It sure does sol, it sure does
Don't know if any of you have heard from Jim, since we broke up...I'm not bothered or anything, you know, just asking.
What's this, a new British comedy duo? Widney sets it up, some other nobody slips in the punchline? And they say we Jews are clannish.
Eventually, everyone else will stop commenting on this thread, and it'll just be Sol talking to himself.
... oh wait
We also have a little dance number with top hats and even monicles, you'll love it
I miss u too orig sol but fuck it new sol figured out the hat thing before you, i mean what a guy, but dont worry i will cherish that 5 minute non-sexual,non-seeing each other or non-speaking to each other in person relationship that was ours till my dying day
(sniff)
I love Harry
I love Harry
I love Harry and I love to fuck.
I love Harry
I love Harry
If you don't love Harry: hard luck!
Wise Old Bird, I take it that you were a solicitor in your working life. Something in your tone reminds me of cuddley old John Mortimer, as Rumpole of the Bailey.
Maybe it's just the name fooling me.
Widney's finally decided to just front it out. Respect for that, Widney. Honesty is always the best policy in the long run.
Oh my god its yeats reincarnated
Thinking of Widney, whatever happened to poor old Gary Glitter? Last I heard he was facing a firing squad in Vietnam. Fat lot of good prison seemed to do him.
Widney's finally decided to just front it out. Respect for that, Widney. Honesty is always the best policy in the long run
Harry, have you seen hide-or-hair of Glitter on your humanitarian visits behind the bamboo curtain?
Glitter felt up a bunch of kids and he's just facing a firing squad in Nam,thats pretty mild when you think about it,in the states christopher reeves only fell off a horse and they gave him the electric chair.
Ba-doom, ba-doom, tish!
Maybe there's been a miscarriage of justice, here. As a Jew I'm extremely sensitive to that. If Widney is out of the closet and singing like a little tramp, then who could be behind this latest, fabricated me? All this is quite dizzying. Will I have to take back my slanders against poor, benighted Widney? If I've insulted the wrong bitch, then I'm sorry.
Maybe there's been a miscarriage of justice, here. As a Jew I'm extremely sensitive to that. If Widney is out of the closet and singing like a little tramp, then who could be behind this latest, fabricated me? All this is quite dizzying. Will I have to take back my slanders against poor, benighted Widney? If I've insulted the wrong bitch, then I'm sorry.
Orig sol,no offence or anything but is it possible that your suffering from scizophinia or some shit and that it is actually you fabricating yourself, i mean think about it
That's more like it. Let's mock cripples!
According to the experts, what you say is true of all of us to some extent. But at least that was an intelligent sounding post, without the usual antisemitic goading I've come to expect from some people here today.
its ok sol he's no longer a cripple, he's dead now
quiet jew
Let's talk about psychiatry! Let's talk about shooting clay pidgeons!
But let's talk, ok? Don't be strangers, you guys.
Was he Jewish? I didn't know that. Superman was Jewish, eh?
superman was'nt jewish he came from the planet kryton, holy cow sol sometimes i wonder about you, questioning the holocaust, you know whatever, but supermans origin is a well own documented fact
Glitter certainly wasn't/isn't.
that should be well "known" documented fact, i was so angry by your comment i temporily forgot how to spell
i thought that chris reeve joke would get more of a reaction im going over harrys place and other sites and see how it goes down there.
Ken Livingstone says the war of Jenkin's Ear never happened, too. Extradite him to Austria.
David C asks "When was the last time you saw the handwriting of a 'bank clerk' in this day and age?"
Probably about the same time as there was a British Rail and a Hull Polytechnic, eh Sol?
I insist on having the last word
Sir,
Having just read the 247 comments on this posting, I consider myself honoured to make the 248th.
I remain, sir, etc.
Harry you are a nazi
last
HH is not a nazi he is a pussy cat only not flea ridden and prone to killing wildlife or anything, hes nice.
I think the 30 years war only lasted about 28. Does that make me a bad person? Or someone who has trouble counting? Or cant help but try and get in their oar in despite everyone else having gone home hours ago?
Hello?
Reference was made to a post from when Harry used to be funny.
Does anyone know where such may be found?
~
I enjoy masturbation.
Where is I? Oh.
Why someone caint speek ginst the Holy-caust, long as someone else speek for it.
that's mine, I think
Oooooh! Now we gits to revisit this fight. Its like goin back in time. Evin my big breastesses is higher.
I have been denying the Holodomor for years and at the top of my voice. (The Holodomor was the starvation of about 10 million peasants as a result of Stalin's disastrous agricultural remforms in the 1930s.) But no one takes any notice of me. Will someone please report me to the police? I want to be arrested and draw some attention to myself, like David Irving.
Aunt Jemima, I'd like to suck your tits.
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