-15, Lows Keep Getting LOWER!
Thanks for the link. Great collection of info on this Mike, and I love the "Cindy Sheehan in a suit" comment!
Thanks Scott: Come back again soon.
My computer wouldn't play those clips so I went to the C-span website and viewed the whole 2 hour telecast. There were some others there who disagreed with Murtha and Moron. You could have heard a pin drop after they spoke. Clearly a Liberal audience.
OUCH! You watched the whole two hour sideshow?
I did notice some cheers for Sgt. Seavey.
I'd like to get more information on this letter than Gen. Wagner was reading.
'Mogadishu Murtha' (as I've taken to calling him) is a disgrace. Unreal how he believes himself immune from criticism because he's 'been there'.
He's an ass. I don't care how long he served or where - he's being an ass right now.
Some of the blood of the innocents murdered on 9/11 is on HIS hands. (IMHO - as they say) OBL loves to use Somalia as evidence that Americans are a gutless, spineless people.
I can't stand Mogadishu Murtha.
great post I already stole the Malkin part of it and am adding a link to you
Mike, did YOU actually serve in the military? I suspect I know the answer to that question. I love you chicken hawks who act like Grand Masters in a chess game playing war games and sacrificing poor pawns (Democrats and Republican)to carry out a reckless foreign policy. Untill you and others like you - Brown Shirt Dicky C etc.- have walked in congressman Murtha's shoes and actually served your country.You will have no credibility in this debate.
WW: I just love it when you CHICKEN DOVES try and push that flawed line of reasoning!
Did YOU actually serve in the military or are you just another fraud Democrat spreading the usual lies to enable terrorists to kill us more quickly.
I HAVE served in government from the court house to the White House and half a dozen other places. I imagine your own experience with government is limited to the amount of time you have spent in line at the Post Office.
If you bothered to read the post at all, which apparently you did not, I presented Murtha's own version of the chicken hawk fallacy along with the words of TWO VETERANS AT THE MEETING.
But it's clear you were in too big of a hurry to post your completely stupid comment to bother reading the post.
And when it comes to "credibility in this debate" the obvious frauds, liars and practiced distortions of you folks make a mockery of the serious debate on these life and death issues.
People are dying and our nation is at war and the best you can come up with is that unless someone has served in the military they have no right to comment?
I'm sure you have made that very same point to all the anti-war protesters, 90% of whom loathe the military and have never served.
You've done that right?
Yeah sure!
P.S. MONICA: I like your Mogadishu Murtha. But Sheehan in a Suit is my favorite.
Sheehan is Murtha in a suit, cut and dry that is it. You know if that Moonbat runs for congress in 2006 Murtha will have his nose up her ass!
WW - wow! You're so original! Spouting the 'chicken hawk' AND 'brownshirt' bullshit all in one comment! And what you're saying isn't at ALL relevant to what Mike was talking about!
Good job, WW. Keep at it, hon. Pretty soon you won't have ANYONE in our government who represents your twisted views!
WW: Too bad Monica forgot to mention her own military service... But then we we are still waiting for you to tell us about YOURS!
Utah: Anyone know if Sheehan and Murtha have ever been in the same room at the same time? There might be more to this Sheehan in a suit or Murtha in a dress business than originally thought!
Mike,
You said it all! Very goooooood!
WW I'll put my military service up against yours any day and I think Mike is right on the money!
I, too, would like to know if WW has spent any time in the military and especially how many months of combat time he/she has. If the likes of whiny WW's would shut their pie holes and let our military out of the box they're in, they would end this thing a lot faster with a lot less of our own heores being killed.
It sickens me when these whiny liberals show up questioning the motives of conservatives who support the military and the war effort that will continue to provide the freedom that they abuse.
WW, since you challenged Mike on his service relative to Murtha's; you've got mine to beat or you stay silent on such matters. Wanna take the challenge?
Mike, sorry I showed up late; I was off with my competing cheerleader granddaughter for most of the weekend. You didn't need the help; I just like chiming in on these type posts.
Thanks Don and Old Soldier.
I think WW may be a case of drive by moonbattery. But thanks for the backup, it is always appreciated.
Isn't it a shame that this nation commits itself to war, our congress votes for it, we have two elections where that is the central issue, we go to the United Nations repeatedly, and we still have people like WW doing their level best to undermine our efforts.
Imagine how much quicker this whole mess would be over, how many lives would be saved, if the people who opposed this war and lost the argument were mature enough to support the democratically arrived decision?
P.S. Old Soldier: Did your granddaughter win?
Mike, yes, my granddaughter's team placed first. The competition took place in Birmingham, so it was a pretty big event (lots of teams). It was a good showing for a small town group of ~ 11 year old girls.
What's ironic is the fact that those very soldiers maligned by this "I support the troops, but not the mission," liberal garbage, are the very ones securing the freedoms under which these liberals challenge our patriotism. I’m sure it didn’t show (too much), but I get a bit miffed when people show up spewing their wayne’s world rhetoric – like his/her liberal ideology automatically gives him/her credibility. It give him/her credibility alright; the credibility of a moonbat.
Congrats to your granddaughter O.S. I sure didn't think you were old enough to have an 11 year old grandchild.
We've seen this arrogant lefty presumption before in oh so many ways. The NSA leak case, where career bureacrats favoring the Democrats viewpoint undermine and obstruct our democratically elected leaders who have the responsibility and legal authority to determine policy.
Another example that is more offensive on a personal basis was the protestor outside Walter Reed Hospital with the Code Pink group holding signs "maimed for a lie" "died for Halliburton" with rows of coffins. One of these nuts was asked why he was there. He said that because the injured soldiers could not protest HE was doing it for them. This punk of course never served in the military, never did anything for other people.
The chicken hawk garbage is such a stupid argument and everyone but the moonbats can see right through it. Each of us, regardless of whether we serve in the military or not, has a responsibility and duty to inform ourselves on these life and death issues and take part in the political process that decides the course our nation takes.
The Chicken Doves just ignore the results of that political process and seek to overturn the result, obstruct, undermine and sow dissension and confusion in an area where clarity and unity are most needed.
How and when I served my country is irrelevant to this discussion as I am not promoting a totally useless and imoral war such as you are.FYI, -my brother has been in an Army hospital in San Antonio Texas over the past year recouping from severe burns and getting over the fact that he will never be able to use his right hand again.Thanks to a suicide bomber that hit his unit in Iraq- So like Ms. Sheehan, and unlike you, I think I have some credability when it comes to this discussion. ButI digress. The truth of the matter is most of you conservatives and so called hawks will never know what it really means to be at war because you will never have a need for extra cash or the job security that being in the armed services provides.Thus, as it has been documented over and over, the all volunteer army is not a true representation of this countries popultation. I am going to guess that if a draft was instituted tomorrow most of you would be singing a different tune. And no Mike this is not a drive by; and I am not afraid to debate you or any of your minions -Like Monica from Philadelphia who obviously has a very limited vocabulary and thus has to rsort to swearing- How sad.But I have come to expect no less from your ilk. The true God fearing, flag waving, Fakeriots!!!
W.B: Thanks for clearing that up. It's amazing that you lefty loons always want to talk about other people serving and have never served yourself.
And yet you seem to think that you somehow have credibility because you opposed the war?
If we followed your first line of reasoning, which is flawed from the beginning, but just if:
We should listen first and foremost to those who have served. If you bothered to read the post you are commenting on I present two veterans confronting Cindy-Murtha. Now, you've had several more on this site respond to your comment.
We could go and take a poll of all those who served. You want to bet how they feel about it?
And yet you, who point the finger at others and have never served your country presume to speak with any moral authority?
The fact that you would diminish the capability and dedication to mission of our volunteer armed forces by instituting an unnecessary draft is proof of your lack of seriousness. After all, it was folks like you who were vehemently opposed to the draft. Funny how you change your tune, not based on principles but raw craven political motivations.
The baselessness of your unrelenting and unprincipled obstruction of your nations democratically elected government in a time of war is the most heinous thing any of you could ever do. I would say you should be ashamed, but like so many of you, I doubt you are capable of registering that emotion.
You have my sympathy for the deluded state of anger and fear that you have brought upon yourselves. Your viewpoint as it becoming increasingly heard is increasingly marginalized to the fringe of acceptable political discourse.
I would say you people are a joke, but unfortunately, the consequences of your sad and demented outlook puts more Americans at risk, both overseas at war in Iraq and here at home.
The only good thing to come of hearing the viewpoints of people like you is that you cause more decent, intellectually honest, thoughtful Americans who understand the gravity of these issues to vote for Republicans.
I would say "keep it up" were it not for the abominable and offensive nature of your ridiculous screed.
Wayne Bennett, let me begin by extending my appreciation to your brother for his service. I will extend my prayers to include his wellbeing.
”So like Ms. Sheehan, and unlike you, I think I have some credibility when it comes to this discussion.”
Wayne, the only credibility that Cindy has is what she has stolen from her son. Her platform is Casey’s coffin and I think that is so sad. Cindy’s voice is but one; no longer representing thousands and barely hundreds (more like tens) anymore. You do not draw any credibility from your wounded brother any more than I draw credibility from my wounded brother or my wounded uncles. Your credibility is based solely upon your experiences. You may have very strong beliefs and a desire to speak, out and that is fine; but credibility you must earn for yourself. You may not borrow or take it from someone else’s experiences.
It is a miserable and thankless task to be a soldier, but those of today’s military are the finest in the land and they deserve our undying gratitude. You mentioned a draft as a way to make a point about who does and who doesn’t serve in today’s military. Let me assure you one does not NORMALLY join the armed forces because of a need ”…for extra cash or the job security that being in the armed services provides.” You see there is a very serious responsibility that goes along with being a soldier; it’s called duty to nation. When you wear the uniform, you have sworn an oath to defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. The term constitution relates to the nation. One does not wear the uniform and undergo training for combat merely for some extra cash. Anyone who may have entered under such premises is quickly enlightened as to the real duty involved.
”Thus, as it has been documented over and over, the all volunteer army is not a true representation of this countries popultation.”
Any bitterness you may have over who volunteers and who doesn’t is your burden, not anyone else’s. I served in the years of the draft and then into the years of the all volunteer force. I want you and everyone else to know, the all volunteer force is much more dedicated and disciplined than the drafted forces ever were. Now, that’s from my experience. The smaller volunteer forces of today could whip the snot out of the larger drafted forces of the 1960’s and into the 1970’s, purely on discipline and esprit de corps. So a return to the draft would be a terrible mistake in manning our armed forces so long as volunteers continue to step forward.
Please notice that I have responded to your comments with a modicum of civility and will expect the same should you be inclined to respond to my comments.
You are a typical example of a Republican demagogue, inspite of your supposed credentials you obviousley never learned basic reading comprehension in school. I never said I never served, I said whether or not I served is not relevant ot this discussion. Now; I am willing to bet that YOU did not serve. If this is going to be a spitting match about who did or didn't serve in the military we can settle that too and make another issue of it. How dare you question my right to disagree with this war? Marginalized? The last time I checked most Americans were OPPOSED to the war. But keep living in your fantasy world, maybe after W leaves office you can help him get all three of his books for his Presidential library. And just a thought, were it not for dissent, your sorry butt would be sitting in Trafalger Square sipping tea right now.
Mike, I'm not old enough to have an eleven year old granddaughter. What started out as a severe challenge in my oldest daughter's life, turned into the greatest joy imaginable. Perhaps I will confide the story one day, but not today.
Grandchildren are God's gift to you for letting your own children live.
P.S. Unfortunately, the truth is I actually am old enough.
First;Thank you Old Soldier for your service to your country. I am sorry if I gave you the impression that I am trying to draw credibility from my brother because I am not. Believe me, I only raised that subject to make a point. I must disagree with you however about the reason most of today's soldiers serve. Many of them like so many in my family are from poor backgrounds, who see the military as the only way of either paying for college or having a carreer. Still, I am sure 99.99% of the guys who are signed up would give their lives for a fellow soldier, and they are all indeed patriots. My problem with Mike and people like him is that they use their ideology to cloud everything. Even something as serious as service and shedding your blood for your country. -As if some of the soldiers dying aren't democrats- Give me a break!! That's why I question whether people like him ever served. So disagree with Murtha but dont make an issue of him being a Democrat. Yes he opposes the war, but that's his right, as it is Cindy Sheehans to do so.
Wayne, unfortunately the anti-war folks are aligned to the liberal or Democrat side of the ideology spectrum. What Mike and so many more like him and me see is America's will to win being weakened by protest and dissention. That is what occurred relative to the Vietnam War and you know the outcome. In "redeploying" out of Vietnam we left people vulnerable and over a million perished needlessly. However, the liberal hippy generation anti-war crowd cared not one bit about those deaths; just the fact that they had won a political victory in getting the troops out of the war zone justified their actions in their minds. Incidentally, we were within about two months of having experienced an unconditional surrender of North Vietnam had we just “stayed the course”. (That info comes from post war interviews with the North Vietnamese military leadership.)
I do not doubt that there are some folks who join the service because they see a chance to better themselves. But they do not do it blindly – they know what an army is all about. In other words, they are willing to accept a risk to improve their situation. That’s fine and I applaud anyone who wants to get ahead. However, if they accept the pay and benefits of military service, they must fulfill their end of the contract – be a soldier. Any other logic becomes dishonest in trying to get pay and benefits with no intent to fulfill an obligation. I still perceive that most young enlistees understand what is expected of them and they know what possibilities lay ahead. I don’t believe they are “duped” into joining a boy’s club.
It might help to reveal that I still work for the Army, just not as a soldier any longer, so I have a good grasp of the situation, not just perceptions and feelings. I’ll also tell you that by and large, most young enlistees come in with a predominantly centrist ideology. They hold values that fall on both sides of center. After a year or so, they lean a little more right primarily motivated by the aspect of which party is stronger on national defense. The young officers and warrant officers seem much more solidly to the right of center. That is not to say that there are no young enlistees and young officers that enter that are strongly Democratic or liberal in ideology. Clearly, my experience has been and remains today that the majority of the military (I estimate greater than 60 %) vote for the stronger national defense candidates (as of late years that is the GOP).
Wayne, does your ideology cloud your ability to see value in prosecuting this war effort to a victorious conclusion? That is not meant as a sharp shooting question. I admit that my ideology clouds my view of many of the liberal antics that I see going on today. Everything is turning partisan, and it is very disparaging to me at times.
You really do have my sympathy Wayne. The anger, pain, hatred and bitterness that most of you FEEL prevents you from analysing the critical life and death issues this nation faces in a rational, serious and mature manner.
I have no desire to be in a spitting match with you and less desire to debate. It's clear that a rational effort to establish dialogue with people operating solely on flawed emotional foundations is a waste of time.
But I will just say that perhaps you're reading comprehension skills need updating. No one ever said you had no right to disagree. But the issues upon which you disagree have been settled and decided by the will of the American people in TWO ELECTIONS. At what point do you realize that your unprincipled, unrelenting obstruction is dangerous to the safety of Americans fighting overseas and at home?
Is there any point at which you accept the responsibility for your viewpoint? You seem to want to cast responsibility on the rest of us and I gladly accept mine. But what about yours?
You continue to suggest that YOUR lack of service is irrelevant while you insist that it IS relevant for those with an opposing view.
If that were the standard, then only the military could vote on issues of war and peace. Guess what? I'D BE HAPPY WITH THE RESULTS OF THOSE VOTES!
I was born at Fort Jackson, the Army training base at Columbia SC if that tells you anything. I went on to serve my country as I have previously described.
I continue to serve my country and support our troops and their mission. I support the wise and effective use of our military power to protect the American people. I support the Department of Defense in it's desire to provide our troops with the best equipment and training possible so that they may be safe and lessen civilian casualties.
Folks like you have done everything in your power to gut the military and deny them the tools they need to do their job. And yet you claim any credibility on the issues of war and peace?
Yes Wayne, you do have my sympathy. I understand there was an uptick in the need for psychological services after the last election. If you continue to feel overwhelmed by emotion rather than governed by reason, you may wish to avail yourself of counseling.
Wayne! Wayno! Waynee! You said:
Mike, did YOU actually serve in the military? I suspect I know the answer to that question...Chickenhawk...brownshirt..
wayne's world | 01.08.06 - 10:42 am | #
Then you said:
How and when I served my country is irrelevant to this discussion...useless war...Monica...swearing...
Wayne Bennett | 01.09.06 - 11:20 am | #
You are the same poster - are you not?
1. Swearing. When I see bullshit I call it like it is. Not very ladylike, I know. No apologies for it though.
2. Military service being relevant only if one supports a war that you disagree with is illogical. Either military service is relevant in a debate about war - or it is not. You are the one who attached relevance to time served in the military in your first statement. Changing the rules around like that makes you look silly.
3. Count me as one of those poor, desperate persons who latched onto the military as a vehicle out of a bad situation. I differ from your characterization of it in that I served my time honorably, understanding the commitment that I had made and fully ready to give the full measure. In addition to that - I was proud to be in the Army, proud of my MOS, my training that I received, and of my performance in the job. I am STILL feeling proud about my time in the service and would recommend it to any young man or young woman who asks me my opinion. It is not a one-way street Wayne. The poor and downtrodden are not thrown onto the battlefield with no training, equipment, food or support. It is risky - YES. One can get hurt or even die. Our armed forces are equipped and trained to win and minimize casualty. The men and women serving now understand and accept that risk. Most of them unwilling to accept it do not make it very far.
Nothing more to say to you other than I agree with Mike's last statement in his most recent comment to you:
"you may wish to avail yourself of counseling."
Looks like your comment put a cork in him Monica... or maybe a stake.
Here's my new nickname for you in 2006: Monica The Moonbat Slayer
No Monica and Mike, your talking points and right wing dribble did not put a stake in me. Lets see now, where do I begin? Your assertions were so ludicrous and absurd that I would need ab entire book to properly repond and refute your nonsensical statements. Mike, did you really say "...the will of the American people in TWO ELECTIONS? You mean the two you stole; first in Florida, and then in Ohio? Those elections? You must have been on another planet for the past ten years. And Monica,I know you are a lady so I will try to be civil. I stated that MY service was irrelevant because I was not the one advocating and supporting this war. So if I did not serve, it would not diminish my argument. Please get a clue before you make your foolish pronouncements. Changing the rules around -See Gore vs. Bush- is what your party likes to do. Oh, and Mike, I am not bitter. I have a very wonderful life that I enjoy very much in the greatest country on Earth. The only time I actually think I might need a shrink is when I have to deal with the likes of you and your side kick Monica.
No pal, I wasn't on another planet the last ten years... I spent a good deal of it in OHIO. But somehow, I imagine that not only have you never served in the military, but you probably have no more experience with politics than licking the stamps for the envelopes for the Greenpeace fund-raising appeal.
Earlier, I mentioned that it was a waste of time to even try and engage a person whose perspective is so obviously flawed by the "blue state of mind bubble disease."
Even your house organ, the New York Al Queda Times admitted that by any and all standards, Bush won Florida in 2000.
The fact you are still in denial about that fact and much else is all the proof anyone needs to understand that your delusion is approaching a serious neurotic condition.
Thankfully, Bush signed legislation for a prescription drug benefit for seniors and as we all know, the incrementalism of socialism will mean that everyone will popping freebie pharmaceuticals any day now.
Though some of us may wonder if you're not already dipping into the medecine cabinet.
Whatever the case, it is clear that you have no serious contribution to make to the much needed political discourse in this country. I really am sorry for you.
LOL! Stole the election. LOL! This guy is a real piece of work.
Some of these moonbats really do need to update their material don't they?
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