-15, Lows Keep Getting LOWER!
Hello,
I have been observing some of you in the so called "right wing" blogsphere. A few questions for you to answer if you may. The "right wing" blogsphere has been echoing Bush's plan to prevent Iran from obtaining atomic weapons at all costs.
But why did we allow Stalin to develop atomic weapons in 1949. Surely Stalin, who killed 30-50 million people was more concerning than the Iranians who have not done anything recently or ever approaching that. Or in 1964 we allowed Chaiman Mao, who killed over 100 million of his people, to obtain atomic weapons. We did not prevent either of these countries from obtaining these weapons. Additionally the Soviet Union and Red Chinese were supporting countless terrorist groups at the time bent on turning a huge number of countries "red" at the time. Why did Truman or LBJ not attack these respective countires before they developed atomic weapons and gave them to communist terrorist groups. It seems to me there is a flaw in you and the administrations's logic. Lots of countires have obtained atomic weapons over the past 56 years, many extremely hostile to us, and nothing has happened and we have done fine. It also seems that after the little fiasco in Iraq ,people would be a little leary of taking on a county much larger and powerful. Maybe if Bush, Cheney, or their children were sitting on the Iran-Iraq, Iran-Afgaistan border after we or Israel Launch airstrikes, they might be a little bit concerned. I see lots of people who talk the talk but do not walk the walk when it comes to sacrificing for the so-called war on terror. Thanks
Georgia: Do you really want to be taken seriously or are you just spreading around another version of your Michael Moore talking points?
If you were really interested in a serious answer, you might want to tone down the obvious left wing trip wire rhetoric.
You say: "Bush's plan to prevent Iran from obtaining atomic weapons at all costs." and go on to suggest: "there is a flaw in you and the administrations's logic."
Apparently you HAVE NOT EVEN BOTHERED TO READ THIS PAGE.
"At all costs" Georgia? Do you have any idea what that means?
I have at NO TIME advocated a military solution regarding Iran. And have not even been trumpeting the nuke issue, except as it relates to the rest of Iran's behavior.
Why don't you just take 10 minutes to read some of what I have actually said about the problem with Iran before you come here and so openly display your ignorance and total lack of any original and critical analytical skills.
Somehow I imagine that you and those like you had no problem with either the Red Chinese or Stalin having nuclear weapons. And I'll go further and suggest that you probably didn't really care how many tens of millions of people they killed.
After all, we know that the real problem in the world is the United States don't we?
You and your "so-called" this and "so-called" that... I'm ashamed to know that we live in the same state. But it would appear that your state of mind is delusion, denial and fantasy!
Instead of playing that tired worn out hate America game, why don't you go out and do something FOR your country instead of try and tear it down at a time of "so-called" war.
Maybe you should talk to some of the survivors of September 11th and ask them about the "so-called" attacks that took so many of their family members.
Georgia did you drink to much Kool-Aid at one of your Anti-War protests? 
Why don't you ask the Democrats why they fear Able Danger? 
HOORAH FOR YOU, MIKE.
all thumbs up, mike!
"if bush is hitler, what is venezuela's hugo chavez?" um...the tooth fairy?
"If Bush is Hitler, What is Venezuela's Hugo Chavez?"
the democratically-elected president of that country?
"jail, torture (the real kind, not Guantanamo) and kill anyone who dares to object."
citations, please.
KEvron
Truman, LBJ - Weren't they Democrats?
Chavez - Another Castro wanna-be.
"jail, torture (the real kind, not Guantanamo) and kill anyone who dares to object." - for which country? There are several that come to mind, including Cuba & the old Soviet Union.
KEvron - here's a source for you:
Stuart I. Rochester and Frederick Kiley, Chapter 19, "The Zoo, 1967-1969: The Cuban Program and Other Atrocities," in, Honor Bound. American Prisoners of War in Southeast Asia 1961-1973 (Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press, 1999), p.400.
Found at The City Troll Blog
Hey Kevron: So it's democracy to take the list of persons who signed a petition calling for a referendum on the president and fire every one of them that worked for a state owned company and cancel any contracts they may have had?
Did you even BOTHER to read the article that was linked?
But if you need MORE... I recommend the report on Venezuela from Human Rights Watch.
http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=america...ericas&
c=venezu
You remember Human Rights Watch don't you Kev?
You folks love to talk about them in regard to their reports on the frat party pranks at Abu Ghraib or the holiday camp at Gitmo.
But somehow, when it comes to torture, killings and jailing of political opponents, and the corruption of the entire political process to create a one party Marxist dictatorship you folks can't seem to be able to read.
Is it just that there is some cognitive disorder where liberals just stick their fingers in their ears and start shouting "la, la, la, la...I can't hear you" when REAL crimes are being described?
Or is it that you just love any ruthless murdering thug or dictator who expresses his hate for America?
Hate America? Liberals will LOVE you!
as for castro, humberto fontova's book "fidel" is excellent and will have even the toughest person in tears.
how do you tell a child these people remain in power ONLY because of the power they've given themselves? my fourteen year old son has asked me on countless occasions why a hitler, chavez, castro, et al, have been allowed to rule.
prayerfully and hopefully, that is the generation that will change things in this mean world for the better ONE of these days. my children say, "if people don't like it here, they should get the hell out!" it is one of two times i allow them to use foul language...
I am just going to bypass replies to the new skirmishes so I can respond to the very first reply.
"But why did we allow Stalin to develop atomic weapons in 1949."
Are you serious? It was being done in secret, we were unaware and did not have the technology we have today (i.e. satellites). Once the cold war was fired up and communist countries banded together there was this concept called MAD. Look it up and maybe THEN you will understand why we made few or secret attempts to stop later nuclear developments during the Cold War.
Now that we are not in the MAD scenario we are able to handle things in the world differently. Those had to have been some of the dumbest and least informed questions I have ever seen in my life.
Thank you mdconservative and very excellent points.
It wouldn't hurt to remind "georgia" that Stalin got that nuke thanks in large part to lefties like Ethel and Julius Rosenberg.
And the Rosenberg's were executed for their crime that place all mankind in jeopardy.
Betray your country today and you'll be the toast of the town.
MDconservative,
You mention that we had no options in 1949, I would beg to differ, we had the world's only ability to drop an atomic bomb anywhere in the world, something the Soviets did not have, the same thing in 1964 when China exploded a weapon and in 1974 when the Indians exploded their first bomb or in 1998 when Pakistan and their AL Queda loving nuclear bomb scientists expolded their device. What makes this a dangerous time is not who is building or not building a nuclear device, it is who is occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Bush is different than any other president this country has had. A man completly oblvious to the damage his military adventures have done to this Country. Weakened our military, the whole world hating us except the Israelis, hundreds of more billions borrowed from the Red Chinise.
One last thing. A conservative is someone who believes that things have consequences. You don't work, you don't eat, you kill someone, you get executed. Bush is not a conservative because he believes that there should be no consequences for his fiasco in Iraq. He is a true liberal at heart. He governs by his own silly emotions as opposed to the hard logic of history and the truth. Give me one occupation of an Arab country that has ended happily for the occupier? Thanks.
Let me get this right. At the end of WW II you would have advocated dropping a nuclear weapon on Moscow?
Well geee-golly. If that is how easy things are! Let's pull the troops our of Iraq tomorrow and just "nuke" it. I love it, some liberal that wants to stroll into my "stupid solution" section which involves just using our nuclear weapons on any problem. What you are talking about is the equivalent of police officers just using their sidearm’s with 2-centermass shots to stop any and all suspects regardless of age, sex, or accused crime.
"...he believes that there should be no consequences for his fiasco in Iraq. He is a true liberal at heart."
Thanks for letting us know that a "true liberal" does not believe in consequences.
He is the Commander-in-Chief. He is not a murderer. So many in the US will be able to blissfully go through life never having to deal with giving orders that may result in death. You have it easy, not all of us do.
Georgia: Are you ten years old or just pretend to be ignorant of history?
You say "A man completly oblvious to the damage his military adventures have done to this Country."
Bet if you had been around in the 80's you would have said the same thing about President Reagan...
And guess what? YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN WRONG THEN, AS YOU ARE NOW!
And you go on to say that Bush has "weakened our military?"
Really? Ask the military how they feel about Bush. Ask them if they think Bush has weakened them?
But you really don't care about the military, OR what they think do you?
so let's proceed:
You say: "the whole world hating us?"
Again... What planet are you talking about?
Did you read the statement of the Indian Prime Minister printed in full on this blog?
Do you even care what the leader of the "Non-Aligned Movement" has to say?
Let's add to that with the recent electoral victories of pro-American, pro-BUSH leaders in both Canada and Germany and the re-election of Australian Prime Minister Howard.
Are you really so totally immersed in delusion and Bush hate that you cannot see the tide of history even when it is lapping at your feet?
You sadden me "georgia." Either you are a total fool, or you just play one on TV.. Either way, you prove once again that your kind are not to be trusted with the business of government and national security.
Mike thank you for sparing me from having to repeat the crimes of the Rosenbergs.
Lets see what constitutes Arab lands.
The Arabs invaded adjacent areas and are not the indigenous people in most of the areas they are in now. The notion of any soil being Arabic or Muslim is a farce.
tom,
citations relevant to the claims made against chavez, thank you.
KEvron
"Did you even BOTHER to read the article that was linked?"
i sure did. it was replete with falsehoods, and not a linked article within it to support any of its claims. in short, it was a dishonest op/ed. *yawn*
"You remember Human Rights Watch don't you Kev?"
i covered them on poisoned putzo's blog.
"But somehow, when it comes to torture, killings and jailing of political opponents, and the corruption of the entire political process to create a one party Marxist dictatorship you folks can't seem to be able to read."
oddly enough, your link fails to mention any of these acts. most articles mention repression of free speech to some degree. considering the attempted coup against the chavez government, these actions may be a necessary temporary measure.
"....REAL crimes are being described?"
lol! "real"! read your own links sometime, bub!
"Or is it that you just love any ruthless murdering thug or dictator who expresses his hate for America?"
got news for ya', wing-nut: the chimp ain't america.
KEvron
Yeah beat me on the Rosenburgs also damn!
lets realy take a look at georgia. She is obviously someone who has been subjected to one of our esteemed higher learning institutions. Her obvious lack of the true paths of history, thouroughly brainwashed in her belief that the communist/socialist utopia can be achieved if only the right people occupied the whitehouse and controlled the congress. Her total lack of reality regarding the late 20th century is a direct result of her professor inbedding their open socialist fantacies into every curriculem. since the late 40s early fifties the communist ideolagy has seduced the left, the bohemian, and the accademic intelligencia. You see they're right we are just uneducated in the more refine eliments of socialism. Stalin was a butcher only because he was uneducated the elite of the revolution planted the correct seed in their mind it was only the soviets exicution of the proper ideals that was wrong. What they fail to see is the genetic corruption of man and that is that he is flawed with ego, greed, and power lust. A socialist society can only function in a utopia where man can not be corrupted the left and accademia believe that they are actualy the uncoruptable elite. Since their ideals are pure they must also be. Never mind that facts have proven them wrong time and time again.
McCarthy was right the commies are here the only difference is today they call themselves liberal or progressive
if someone who calls himself "the troll" says it's true, who are we to argue?! lol!
KEvron
"Bet if you had been around in the 80's you would have said the same thing about President Reagan...
And guess what? YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN WRONG THEN, AS YOU ARE NOW!"
way to take ga down a peg....for something she never said!
rely on strawman arguments much?
KEvron
Kevron is a Liberal Kool-Aod Drinking Moonbat Tard. He follows Scientology which explains his problems.
Kevron: You obviously CHOOSE to remain ignorant when it comes to Chavez.
I could cite article after article from sources like Human Rights Watch.
If you CHOOSE not to believe what they have to say regarding Chavez, we have no choice but to conclude you prefer to remain ignorant.
Well now, what a surprise that is.
I guess you just prefer to love any murdering thug who hates this country.
Says alot about you doesn't it?
Speaking of straw men you did a great job of persuading everyone that the points I raised were invalid. We are crushed with the lilt and prose of your commentary and the undeniable power of the argument that you put forth in dashing my statements to the ground. We have never seen such a mastery of facts....
I'm a known commodoty sunnyboy if your going to impress this group you need to strengthen your hand boy
"I could cite article after article from sources like Human Rights Watch."
yeah, that's what i meant when i said "citations, please". and seeing as you could, then why don't you already? only this time, provide articles which support your claims, not articles that have absolutely nothing to do with your contentious bs, mkay?
KEvron
Senator Ted Kennedy
-----------------------
"....murdering thug...."
Gee kevy so deep and profound LOL
Hey Mike whant somthing fun to read
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ar...&
type=printable
Why not complete my thought that you quote:
"I could cite article after article from sources like Human Rights Watch.
...
If you CHOOSE not to believe what they have to say regarding Chavez, we have no choice but to conclude you prefer to remain ignorant."
Oh, and there is much, MUCH more on Chavez than the HRW reports, which you apparently have yet to read.
Are you suggesting that it wouldn't be a complete waste of my time to link news story after news story about the political killings and torture in Venezuela?
Are you that blind that you haven't already read them? Or is my conclusion that you will not believe anything that undermines your view of that murdering thug?
I bet you still believe Saddam Hussein never had any links to Al Queda too.
You want to be a useful idiot for some America hating Marxist that is your choice.
But it is also my choice to point out that you are a useful idiot for an America hating Marxist.
P.S. Troll: Thanks for the link. Seems even the SF Chronicle is finally figuring out what a fool Sheewitch is. You think Kevron will catch on too? Nah!
"....If you CHOOSE not to believe what they have to say regarding Chavez"
when did i ever say i don't believe them, with regard to chavez? oh, that's right. i didn't. try again, prevaricator.
"Oh, and there is much, MUCH more on Chavez than the HRW reports, which you apparently have yet to read."
if any of it will support your preposterous claims, bring it forward.
that's the third time you've said you could provide sources to support your claims, yet failed to do so. put up or shut up already.
"Are you suggesting that it wouldn't be a complete waste of my time to link news story after news story about the political killings and torture in Venezuela?"
well, seeing as you went to all the trouble to post the hrw link (which, incidently, offered no support for your claims about chavez - thought you'd like to know that), i don't see how posting one simple citation, one that might support your claims, should be such a burden.
just one. maybe you could add a quote or two from it, too. you can do it.
"I bet you still believe Saddam Hussein never had any links to Al Queda too."
no thakns. i don't care for herring, red or otherwise....
"You want to be a useful idiot for some America hating Marxist that is your choice."
back atcha, only switch "be a useful idiot blah blah blah" to "lick my junk". you get the picture.
"But it is also my choice to point out that you are a useful idiot for an America hating Marxist."
i know you are, but what am i?! lol!
"You think Kevron will catch on too?"
what was that middle part?
*yawn*
KEvron
"Gee kevy so deep and profound LOL"
it's true, i'm not vey deep or profound, but THAT was downright hi-LARI-ous! guffaw-guffaw!
i'm so pnw3d....
KEvron
It's clear to me that attempting to educate you on the vile nature of the Chavez regime would be a waste of time.
If an authority such as Human Rights Watch cuts no sway with you, I doubt much else would.
I'll keep your chosen ignorance in mind for a future post on the subject.
I've read so much on the subject I would hardly no where to begin.
The Real Clear Politics article was about the best summation I have seen.
And of course you dismissed it entirely.
I stand by my conclusions that you are what Stalin called the "useful idiot" willing to ignore evil and oppose good if it fits your ideology.
It's a shame that people like you are only too willing to subject millions more in Venezuela to that selfish delusion.
I actually KNOW people from Venezuela. Many of them are afraid for their lives and those of their families.
But you go on living in that pig-ignorant world of yours. Just don't expect any validation from me.
More commentators blinded by hatred. Where do you get these people, Mike?!
Good question Anna.
Careful, you might encourage them to come visit you.
"More commentators blinded by hatred."
yes, i'm so blinded, i can't see the sources which might support our unstable host's preposterous claims.
"Where do you get these people, Mike?!"
it's called "america". ever heard of it?
KEvron
Sorry Kevie... Not running a free clinic for moonbats tonight.
If Bush ran the United States like Chavez does Venezuela you would have been fired from your job, put in jail, beaten, tortured or killed by now.
You have my sympathy for your total and complete lack of any ability to recognize how completely silly and delusional your point of view is.
In the months ahead, I will be ever so happy to illuminate Mike's America readers further on the nature of the Chavez regime.
Though after your instant dismissal of the excellent summation provided here, it will be lost on you.
Again, you love those who hate your country.
What does this say about you?
Damn. I go away for a couple of days. Okay, weeks. And all hell breaks loose.
Just wanted to post the undermentioned not anything to do with Venezuela but FRANCE which is in the middle of a power struggle between unions and the government. The government is insisting that they will hold firm...yeah right. Watch this space.
Professor Kastoryano: France Lost Its Destination
“The French Government accelerated its struggle against unemployment thinking the recent suburban conflict occurred due to unemployment so prepared a new law that would make it easy for young people to have a job while considering the position of employers as well. However no one understood what the law was for. The Prime Minister acted awkwardly and did not meet with the representatives of students and syndicates. CPE is a law prepared considering the profit of both the employers and young people who have unemployment problems. The boss will employ people but wants the right to fire them if they prove to be useless and inappropriate. The government wants to give this guarantee also. On the other side, they should see the discomfort the French society has been experiencing in recent years. The society has gone out of control. Everything is vulnerable. The society became weak in economic, political, social and cultural perspectives. There is a discomfort spreading in the country. The society would blow even if there was another law rather than CPE. In fact the problem is not Europe or other developments. The problem is in France itself. France is in a terrible situation. The main concern of politicians is to make preparations for the following elections. The leftists, which protest the government today with students, and syndicates, also did not bring any solutions to these problems.”
* Professor Riva Kastoryano lectures at Centre d'Études et de Recherche Internationales (CERI), in France and Harvard University in the US.
"how completely silly and delusional your point of view is."
lol! yeah, my point of view, "sources, please", is a rather silly one!
caught you in a lie, mike, and now you resent me for it. i LOVE when that happens!
KEvron
i put it to you readers: please post one article, and a relevant quote from that article, which supports mike's ridiculous claims of "jail, torture (the real kind, not Guantanamo) and kill anyone who dares to object" with regard to the chavez government.
you can't, can you?
KEvron
www.urru.org/gaitas/Jose%20Vicente%20como%
20siempre.wmv
http://www.latimes.com/news/prin...-news-
a_section
”…considering the attempted coup against the chavez government, these actions may be a necessary temporary measure.”
Can we apply that same philosophy to the “hate Bush”, “get Bush at all cost” media and elite left?
”if someone who calls himself "the troll" says it's true, who are we to argue?!”
As opposed to someone who calls himself “KEvron”? I know Troll researches his facts and KEvron poses questions designed primarily to insight.
Skye, you provided some great links, but they will probably be lost on a closed mind.
Mike, you sure know how to attract the fringe!
Skye, you think that linking to a wingnut conservative source like the LA Times is gonna prove your point?
For those of you on the left, that was sarcasm.
"If Bush is Hitler, What is Venezuela's Hugo Chavez?"
the democratically-elected president of that country?
Funny...so is Bush! Yet that doesn't stop the nutbars like your kind for calling for his removal from office, now does it?
It seems that only Marxist dictators earn a warm spot in the cold hearts of leftist asshats, doesn't it?
Don't you love it when another lefty justifies political killing, torture, beating, firing and jailing of political opponents and the rescission of human rights all for the sake of another America hating Marxist regime?
Obviously Kevron is unable to read what is so readily available to the rest of us. And from such August and usually sacrosanct lefty sources such as
Human Rights Watch
Amnesty International
The BBC
UN Secretary General
...
I don't know how much more is required for any sane, rational individual to conclude that Venezuela is on a dark path and that path is being encouraged by the likes of America haters within this country.
Trial of Civil Leaders for Treason:
http://hrw.org/english/docs/
2005...venezu11299.htm
Expanding laws against insulting the maximum leader. Imposing on press freedoms:
http://hrw.org/english/docs/
2005...venezu10368.htm
Two dead and dozens injured in Streeet Violence:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...cas/
2628203.stm
Police Killings, Torture and Cruel and Inhuman Prisons:
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005.../
venezu9843.htm
UN Secretary General's Statement of Concern over Venezuelan Violence:
http://www.un.org/News/Press/
doc...gsm9182.doc.htm
Inciting violence toward political opponents:
http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php...rs/
200406031723
Chavez to provide Iran with uranium for nuke development:
http://www.wpherald.com/storyvie...13-084446-
4483r
Police threats and killings:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/I...open&of=ENG-
VEN
Lists of Assasinated, Missing or Jailed political opponents:
http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php...rs/
200403020624
Photos of military conducting violence against political opponents and documentation of injuries:
http://www.kodakgallery.com/Brow...Slide=true&
Ux=0
http://www.kodakgallery.com/
Brow...id=628029320105
http://www.kodakgallery.com/
Brow...id=217844320105
http://www.kodakgallery.com/
Brow...id=451509320105
Expat
Thank you for that update from France:
http://haloscan.com/comments/hil...0777648/
#117051
I hope you will keep us up to date and share your first person perceptions of the situtation.
It's sad to see such a once great nation swirl into the sewer of socialist collapse.
Amazing that the lefties wish the same fate for this country.
"If Bush is Hitler, What is Venezuela's Hugo Chavez?"
Jesus?
Wow, kevvy and georgia. Match made in heaven, eh?
You put up with 'waaaay too much trollage, Mike!
"Can we apply that same philosophy to the “hate Bush”, “get Bush at all cost” media and elite left?"
do i need to explain the meaning of the word "coup" to you? not that you'd understand....
"I know Troll researches his facts"
i'm sure he did a great deal of research on georgia before he posted a single word. *snort!*
"and KEvron poses questions designed primarily to insight."
yes, nothing's more inflamatory than the words "sources, please". how dare i expect mike to get his facts from anywhere else than his ass.
"Skye, you provided some great links, but they will probably be lost on a closed mind."
probably, huh. of course, i didn't bother with them, as they have no titles or relevant excerpts which might give a hint as to their matter. i'm not interested in snipe hunts, just facticity.
so many clowns here protesting my request for sources which would support mike's claims, yet none of you seem to be able to supply those sources, either.
is it asking too much for the readers here to try to keep up with the discussion? sheesh....
KEvron
Did you see the list of sources???? What the hell do you want? You are obviously just trying to be an asshole and provoke people. Well it is working.
So George the II can do no wrong. We can't criticize out "Dear Leader" for his misadventures in Mesopotamia that has his Legions bogged down in a dirty counter insurgeny action. All hail the "Great Leader" in his struggle to save the world. All hail Dick "I had other priorities during Vietnam" Cheney as we cure the world of dictators and "terrorism". Look at all the countries lining up to be "democratized" like we did Iraq. Maybe we could do to Venezuela or Iran what we did to Iraq. Cut its oil production in half, start a civil and ethnic war, cut electricity production in half, decrease the life span by 20 years. Onward Christian soldiers, marching off to war. Actually it will be Halliburton contractors and Blackwater soldiers marching off to loot and pillage. Their country and ours.
Thanks
"We can't criticize out "Dear Leader"....
you know what the kicker is? mike's been on about chavez's efforts to stifle dissent, yet he deems any criticism of his precious chimp as "treason". lol! could he be any more ridiculous, that hypocrite?!
KEvron
and, despite the numerous insults and attacks on her character, georgia continues to display civility and courtesy. well done, bub.
the rest of you, have at my junk, pigs.
KEvron
(i just noticed: for some reason, my post has been truncated. word count, maybe? here's the rest of it
"Police threats and killings"
"police" threats, not chavez.
"Lists of Assasinated, Missing or Jailed political opponents"
lol! "vcrisis"! why don't you just quote faux news! did you know that venezuela's media is rather partisan is their coverage? find an article from hrw or ai that's makes the same claims, and we'll talk.
"Photos of military conducting violence against political opponents and documentation of injuries"
sorry, but while many of these photos appeal to my sympathy, the validity of the accompanying claims (and rather repetitious ones, at that) must be considered with a measure of skepticism; as hrw said, "the truth is unlikely to ever come out." a riot is an ugly thing.
and those were police, not chavez.
so let's review:
"jail...."
yep, folks have been jailed. and measures have been taken to restrict dissent. again, not something i favor, but then, i don't live in a country that recently suffered a failed coup.
"torture...."
some questionable allegations against police, not chavez. he's not even been implicated.
"kill...."
yep, rioters on both sides were killed. and it's likely that police were responsible in some of these instances.
police, not chavez. he's not even been implicated.
but thanks for the links just the same, mike. now i can see how you misinform yourself in order to make your ridiculous claims. just for shits and giggles, why don't you read this statement from the icc. while you're at it, look up the definition of the word "allege".
KEvron
"do i need to explain the meaning of the word "coup" to you? not that you'd understand...."
KEvron, I doubt seriously that you have the life experiences necessary for you to creditably explain anything to me. It is one thing to be argumentative; quite another to be pompous about it. You, sir, personify an attribute ascribed to you by Don.
I don’t believe you would step up to defend the USA if the enemy was overtly attacking our homeland en masse. Your tactic of constant attack of any and all sources offered by Mike and others only serves to reinforce the fact that you are not interested in discussion; rather your design is to insight folks like Don and others. You, sir, are a toadbat in the first degree!
Georgia, your lower keyed comments still ring clear. You do not comment to contribute. You, too, comment to insight. “Blackwater soldiers”, indeed.
If either of you spent even one day in uniform your tones would be significantly different. But fret not, there are still good people who will volunteer to wear the uniform of our military and fight the fight that ensures your freedom to belittle their service.
kevvy,
http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=america...ericas&
c=venezu
http://web.amnesty.org/library/
i...ENGAMR530052004
http://www.cidh.org/comunicados/.../
press14.02.htm
I realize that you are clue-proof, but there are a few for you. The OAS is not an American tool, nor is AI or HRW, so take what ever value you can from them.
Chavez really, really likes Castro, maybe you could stop trolling long enough to explain the overall wonderfullness of Cuba to us all.
Gaius
PS, feel free to visit my site so I can ban you. And I will.
Not surprising to read this comment from you, Kevron.
------------------------------
probably, huh. of course, i didn't bother with them, as they have no titles or relevant excerpts which might give a hint as to their matter. i'm not interested in snipe hunts, just facticity.
Well I don't think anyone is surprised at what we just had demonstrated so clearly for us in this exchange.
Lefties will defend an America hater, no matter what. They don't give a damn about human rights.
No amount of information from sources that are usually considered above the Bible when those sources criticize the U.S. are ignored if they ascribe REAL crimes to a Marxist thug like Chavez.
And as for georgia:
You really are an embarrasment to yourself.
"We can't criticize out "Dear Leader"
That's all you have been doing for five years snookums. And if you were in Venezuela you would be in jail by now.
" Cut its oil production in half, start a civil and ethnic war, cut electricity production in half, decrease the life span by 20 years.
You really should read something not written by Michael Moore. Might I recommend the Brookings Institute's Iraq Index?
http://www.brookings.edu/iraqindex
Brookings is another of those center left groups you folks LOVE to cite when it suits your purposes. Too bad you totally ignore it when it contradicts your scheme to deceive and LIE.
Both you and Kevie have shown once again why your kind just keeps LOSING elections. You're intellectually dishonest and empty of any substance other than bile.
Boy! This is the third good discussion I've read today. Something must be in the air.
Kev, it takes guts to rile things up. I'll give you credit for that. But c'mon. Chavez is cut from a cloth much older than he is. Would it not be more suprising if he were benevolent, even to his opponents?
"And if you were in Venezuela you would be in jail by now."
don't you mean "and if i had my way...."?
KEvron
Okie dokie Kevie... You're way over quota for time at the free clinic today.
You continue to flood this board with endless and disjointed cut and paste jobs as the ones that I have deleted above and I'll just spare readers the aggravation and can your Marxist thug loving ass altogether.
It's clear you are incapable of organizing your thoughts in a concise, cogent manner.
It's also abundantly clear by now that the sources you demanded were provided and you simply ignored them.
You really did reveal so much about your lack of capacity for reasoning by accusing ME of deception didn't you?
Why don't you call the Pscyhic Help Hotline and see if they can't help you sort out some of your issues.
My cloth comment is an indictment on Latin American rulers. I think you knew what I ment.
i'd be even more surprised if his treacherous, treasonous opponents were to demonstrate the same. you know, the ones who, on apr 11, 2002, changed the coarse of their protest march, and lead thousands of virulent anti-chavez protestors towards a pro-chavez demonstration at the presidential palace, which lead to rioting, then illegally took control of the government the next day....
Nice try, now answer the question. And no, it's not a false dilemma smart guy. I simply asked for your opinion. Hell, I even made it a yes or no question for ease of answering.
In fact, if you want, just tap "Y", if you think it's likely that a Latin American ruler is benevolent to his political opponents, or tap "N" if you believe the opposite.
Maybe if I typed slower...
Old Soldier,
Your comment about those who would never step in for their country. Well that is why our military is so great, no draft, just volunteers.
Those above are the type of people that you make sure to wash-out due to the fact that the only purpose they would fill would be to destroy morale.
There is a big difference between those who serve, those who choose not to, and those who don’t serve and bash those that make that decision to serve.
Georgia blathered:
"All hail Dick 'I had other priorities during Vietnam' Cheney"
Something tells me that you didn't apply a similar standard to Bill 'I had other priorities during Vietnam...plus, I loathed the military' Clinton, didya?
Actually the US army is so hurt for recruits that it has lowered its standards to accept 40 year old grandmothers as E-1s, thousands with permanent profiles (medical excuses why they can't run, etc.), mentally ill recruits, and of course the thousands of rock bottom scorers on the ASVAB that the Army has taken in the past year. These stars will run Rummy's Army of the future. Now showing at a Army post near you. I advise you drive to see them and see how safe you feel. So much for any true support from the american people for the army and the war, I do not see the people with options signing up anymore, I wonder why. Of course there is no draft, we would not want to inconveince anybody.
Thanks
Jonathan,
It is intersting that Bush, Cheney, John Bolton, Wolfolwitz, Douglas Feith, Rummy, and others all managed to miss America's conflict in SE Asia (the Global war on Communism aka G.W.O.C.)while they were of fighting age. Pleny of men with less connections had to run to Canada to get away from the war. Clinton should have gone to Vietnam and his daughter should have been forced to serve after he brutally attacked Yugoslavia in 1999 over some lies about Serbs in Kosovo. Any Democrat or Republican who voted for the congresional Authorization in 2002 should be kicked out of office.
Thanks.
I wasn't writing just about Chavez. The history of Latin America is replete with rulers like Alende, Peron, Goulart, Ortega, Pinochet, Castro,...
My question is the same as before, and it is the same now.
Your last dismissal wasn't even a "good" try, but don't bother replying, I know where you stand.
Yeah Georgia:
Here's where I agree with you:
It's just too darn bad we can't force liberals to live the way they want the rest of us to live.
What a shame we have an all volunteer armed forces where the people in it actually WANT to be there.
It would be much better to force a bunch of lazy socialist druggies to learn how to use guns.
It's just a shame we have to have these "so-called" "elections" where people actually get to decide who their leaders are too.
It would be much better if we just appoint the members of your local Moveon.org chapter to do the job.
After all, socialists like you are doing such a fine job running places like France into the ground.
I gotta admit, Georgia, that's the first time I've ever heard a moonbat defend Slobo Milosevic and protest the war in Bosnia/Kosovo! Pretty rich, I must say.
At least you're consistent in your moonbattery!
not to put a dampner on things, but "Cindy Sheehan, Jesse Jackson and the Hollywood left" are not representative of left wing opinion on Chavez.
and quit shouting dissenting opinion down. its does nothing but affirm some peoples conserns that the american right is sliding in to facism.
"Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism" Huey Long; Gvnr Louisiana 28-32
and quit shouting dissenting opinion down.
You're right, Date-raper...we should allow your drivel to go unanswered, huh?
its (sic) does nothing but affirm some peoples (sic) conserns (sic) that the american (sic) right is sliding in to facism(sic).
"Facism"? Is that the study of faces?
Then he quotes the corrupt Kingfish himself, the disgraced Huey Long? Nice!
crush liberalism? not fascist at all?
catch a grip.
Thanks for defining facism dateraper.
So it's fascist to obliterate your opposition. That's exacatly what Chavez is doing.
It's fascist to shout down your opponents.
That's exactly what you lefties do at every public forum.
Ever been on a college campus and tried to hear a conservative speak?
I realize you would prefer the glory of socialism to go unchallenged by history, that's why your kind like Bennish become teachers.
But sorry pal. Remember the words of Lincoln: "You can fool some of the people some of the time. You can fool some of the people ALL the time (liberals), but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
So it's fascist to obliterate your opposition. That's exacatly what Chavez is doing.
yes i agree. you just cant make statements that all liberal leaning persons support chavez just because a couple of people go visit him. if were talking about south american dictators, maybe you'd like to remind me how many the US government created, MET and supported.
It's fascist to shout down your opponents.
to deny others opinions by resorting to personal attacks is at the very heart of fascism. the next step is violence and persecution.
That's exactly what you lefties do at every public forum.
the opposite is much closer to the truth. people i tend to agree with face a torrent of abuse from right wing persons like yourself in the blogosphere. far outweighing any retorts.
Ever been on a college campus and tried to hear a conservative speak?
ive no more intention of hearing a conservative speak than i do a socialist.
I realize you would prefer the glory of socialism to go unchallenged by history, that's why your kind like Bennish become teachers.
socialism, per say, means nothing to me. there are good points and bad points about the whole political ideological spectrum. and i live in ireland, so i have no idea who this bennish you talk about is. the name sounds familiar though.
crush liberalism? not fascist at all?
No...I'm "facist", remember?
"quit shouting dissenting opinion down."
1) Excuse me we are not "shouting" at any dissenting opinion, just the parts that are wrong or lies.
2) Freedom of speech! You replied to comments made by us. I didn't realize that you always get the final word. How does it work? You can dissent, but we are not allowed to dissent to the dissent?
Okie-dokie that makes sense.
PS-Do you just live in Ireland or are you Irish?
Careful, mdconservative! You don't want to piss off a leprechaun...he might hit you with his shilaleigh (sp?)!
Dateraper said:
" there are good points and bad points about the whole political ideological spectrum."
Yeah... The communists in Stalin's Russia operating REAL GULAGS had their good points too didn't they?
And what about the NAZIS? Can we find a good word to say about the people who ran death camps as opposed to our holiday facilities at Gitmo?
Heck, I'm sure Dateraper would even find a good thing to say about the Taliban and their policy to pull the fingernails out of women who dared to paint them.
Sure... we don't want to judge any political ideology...... Unless it's conservativism.
After all, Muther Sheehan said Bush is the world's biggest terrorist!
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