-15, Lows Keep Getting LOWER!
Aww, did the itty-bitty NYT have its integrity challenged by a blogger? Perhaps if they had some integrity it would matter, but judging by what I see, the NYT has no integrity - except in continuing to echo the elite liberal message. Perhaps they shouldn't be so thin skinned.
Go Curt! Give 'em hell!
They just keep losing circulation and this here's a big reason why. They're arrogant, and they are also very wrong.
I am so proud of Curt for the awesome job he has done of exposing the AP for getting their "news" from the enemy. I can only imagine what a tizzy this has put the AP in and others like the NYT who don't like being exposed for the frauds that they are.
What is sad is how little attention this has gotten by anyone in the Drive By Media.
LMC: The media's malpractice is a huge scandal. But don't expect it to get any coverage.
Even the disclosure that news photos and more from Lebanon were being faked made barely a ripple in the sea of anti-Israel propaganda.
Even if a correction is eventually made, it gets buried behind the latest hysterical misreporting.
This story is proof that despite falling circulation and credibility, the lamestream media still has the power to set the information agenda.
Dispite all the protestations, in the end Zeller gives a grudging nod to Flopping Aces and all the other bloggers who are asking questions.
"And finally, as horrible as the alleged events in Hurriyah were, caches of dumped dead bodies are turning up in neighborhoods almost weekly, car bombs rip through markets and waiting lines and the death toll for American soldiers is approaching 3,000. No one is disputing those accounts.
But then, that may be partly the point. It is important to find out if this really happened in order to separate the hyperbole from the merely horrible in Iraq, so that the horrible will still have meaning. Otherwise it will all become din...
Whatever the agenda of the bloggers most interested in debunking the article, it somehow seems important to figure out why this incident — in the face of all the killings in Iraq — remains in such dispute."
That's right, Mr Zeller of the NYT. We actually don't trust the media and we want more information from validated sources, and not from the same "usual suspect" eyewitness.
David and Goliath is one of my favorite Old Testament stories.
Big hand for Flopping Aces!
"Or is the media simply a one way street where any news reports showing events in a negative light are treated as gospel while those demonstrating success are ignored?"
Mike this is the understatement of the year. Negative reporting has been the norm for the liberal media since the 70's when they discovered that they had the ability through their reproting to bring down a President. MSM is no longer journalism in any sense of the word it has become a liberal think tank that uses the news as a means of pushing agendas and liberal policy to what they percieve as a stupid society that is not as intellectually intelligent as they so it is the medias responsibilty through their biased and negative reporting to correct the public and teach them their form of truth.
God Bless Curt and all the Flopping Aces The arogance of the Traitorous Times just cracks me up They look at blogs as just people opinions, what they don't see is thats all they(theTimes) are and have all they have ever been. What the blogosphere has done is shine the light of truth on all the MSM and they don't like it...
Wordsmith relay my cudos to Curt, I would except I keep forgetting my log in to his site...
Troll: Curt has changed his setup (WordPress wasn't working too well for him. Comments are now regulated by Typepad.
If you have a Typepad account you should be able to leave a comment.
The nerve of these traitors!! They have, many times in the past, admitted "errors" and "slip ups". This is nothing short of setting precedent. They should be expecting skepticism. If they had any self respect they would lay low for a while.
So does this mean there haven't been nearly 3,000 US killed & over 22,000 wounded?
And there aren't 50,000 or so dead Iraqis?
What a relief!
Lay low, Jay? If they had any self-respect they would shut down completely. They are an abomination and have absolutely nothing to do with true journalism. They aren't alone out there though, are they?
Kudos to Curt, and thank heaven for alternate media!
Bravo Curt!
Curt 1 : New York Slimes 0
"Arthur" Glad to hear you have developed a concern for the deaths of US troops and innocent Iraqis.
Where were you all those decades before when Saddamn was butchering the innocent by the hundreds of thousands?
You're a little late pal!
That was weird. I thought it was supposed to refresah when I visited again?
Hmm.
Maybe Arthur wants to go back to the war John F. Kennedy started with Bobby and LBJ standing right there beside him?
Wordsmith relay my cudos to Curt, I would except I keep forgetting my log in to his site...
Will do!
Why not address the actual topic, Arthur. What do you think of the AP? Sloppy journalism? Or are the bloggers, military, and the MIO who are demanding more oversight from the AP, actually justified in their questioning of the AP's credibility on this?
Hey guys, you gonna make a Marine blush =)
Appreciate all the kind words and sorry I hadn't checked this thread earlier. As you may imagine the past week has been quite hectic. I've gotten requests for radio shows and the like which is throwing me for a loop plus I have my damn day job....lol
But seriously, I am so proud that we have been able to keep this story going and forcing other MSM outfits to write about it. As most of you know this kind of thing has been suspected by many of us but we could never find any evidence. Now we have it and the AP has no answer.
Keep their feet to the fire until this kind of conduct by our MSM is stopped.
I loved Curt's observation:
"Unnamed witnesses. One fraudalent witness. One witness who recanted. No bodies. No family members of the victims found. No evidence of burned bodies on the street such as clothing. No outcry from local clerics and politicians...
But who are we to question the media, right?"
Mike wondered:
Well Mike unlike Donald Rumsfield I wasn't in Baghdad shaking the guys hand.
W.F. chirped:
Maybe Arthur wants to go back to the war John F. Kennedy started with Bobby and LBJ standing right there beside him?
What a silly thing to write.
Viet Nam was nearly as big a mistake as this Iraqi misadventure. And I felt at the time it was wrong. Still do.
Try something else.
"Arthur" Do me a favor and lay off the caffeine.
The subject of this post is Flopping Aces valiant effort to expose another media fraud meant to give a false picture of what is happening in Iraq.
If you are unable to stay focused, then you will understand when I delete your comments.
The NYTimes lies and Americans die. And they couldn't care less.
Mike wrote:
The subject of this post is Flopping Aces valiant effort to expose another media fraud meant to give a false picture of what is happening in Iraq.
The problem is that Flopping is flat wrong. There is no good news out of Iraq. Flops quibbles about how news is gathered (bearing in mind Iraq is just about the most dangerous place on the planet & journalists seldom venture out of places such as the Green Zone) don't in anyway negate the essential truth coming out of Iraq.
Lots of people are dying and the situation by any measure is worsening.
But don't take my word for it.
Ask Donald Rumsfeld.
Stoned is flat wrong...
Ask ANY Iraqi, stoned hasn't.
----------------------------------
The problem is that Flopping is flat wrong. There is no good news out of Iraq.
The problem is localized on Baghdad and a few Sunni provinces. But don't tell "Arthur." We wouldn't want to burst the blue bubble he's been living in. Defeatism is easier for him than facing the fact that he's been so very wrong about Iraq and just about everything else.
EDITOR: OFF TOPIC "ARTHUR."
COMMENT DELETED.
Edited By Siteowner
Arthur chickenlittled Pt1:
The problem is that Flopping is flat wrong. There is no good news out of Iraq.
Arthur chickenlittled Pt2:
Flops quibbles about how news is gathered (bearing in mind Iraq is just about the most dangerous place on the planet
Arthur chickenlittled Pt3:
& journalists seldom venture out of places such as the Green Zone) don't in anyway negate the essential truth coming out of Iraq.
Arthur chickenlittled Pt4:
Lots of people are dying and the situation by any measure is worsening.
Fixed it for ya. Sorry I had to deliver this piecemeal. Haloscan didn't think you could handle the brain overload all at once.
Sorry folks.
The bad news is the work of one man and it isn't me.
You can thank George for this 'mission accomplished'.
In the meanwhile we can all read the good news in the Iraq Study Group report.
EDITOR: OFF TOPIC "ARTHUR."
COMMENT DELETED.
Funny how Stoned Arthur always seems to find a home for his tidbits here.
Wordsmith: Thanks for making the effort. You posted links from multiple sources but it's clear from "Arthur's" statement above that he didn't even read the stuff.
I could have told you that was the case, but it's always nice to see the effort made in case one of those lefties comes along and says that no one bothered to contradict his viewpoint so it must be true..
No wonder he is totally unaware of the REAL story in Iraq. That's very sad. Someone with obvious intelligence but completely ill-informed.
Which explains exactly why "Stoned Arthur" can come and trash his sorry ass anytine he chooses. But when "Arthur" (which is NOT his real name, hence the quote marks) wishes to stray off topic to some unrelated tangent it will rarely be permitted.
Perhaps if "Arthur" were better informed on the issues we discuss he could make a more meaningful contribution to the discussion on the chosen topic.
Mike typed:
No wonder he is totally unaware of the REAL story in Iraq. That's very sad. Someone with obvious intelligence but completely ill-informed.
Sorry Mike. Posts on the rightwing blogosphere to which wordsmith dutifully links, written by folks thousands of miles from the scene are meaningless. Beyond useless.
So there is no crisis in Iraq as the Iraq Study Group has reported?
They are wrong?
Really?
I like the part where they suggest we negotiate with Syria & Iran.
Bet that gets the folks here at Mike's America.
Well get used to it.
Diplomacy is our only way out of this mess.
"Arthur" IF you had bothered to read Flopping Aces you would have seen the excerpts from Bill Roggio, who was in Iraq, out in the field, not in some hotel like the "news" reporters upon whom you place so much faith:
http://www.floppingaces.net/2006...view-from-iraq/
So again, you reveal that you did not read the materials that Wordsmith went to pains to provide you and you revel in your willful ignorance.
So I am sure you will understand that I treat your suggestion that "Diplomacy is our only way out of this mess" with the contempt it deserves.
We tried diplomacy for HOW MANY YEARS?
Posts on the rightwing blogosphere to which wordsmith dutifully links, written by folks thousands of miles from the scene are meaningless. Beyond useless.
As Mike pointed out, you didn't bother to read. That's being willfully ignorant and intellectually lazy. Also, the blogposts I linked to aren't just rightwing bloggers just "making stuff up". The good news that CJ lists (and CJ served in Iraq, has contributing milbloggers who are still there, and corresponds with friends who are still there) come from Centcom and other official sources. When I linked to Indigo Red, it may be an op-ed piece, but what he has there appears in the NYTimes. It is apolitical and just an honest observation. You'd do well to read it with an open mind.
Looks like I linked the wrong article in one of my posts, regarding your statement about "many people dying". I meant to link a mainstream source buried away from the frontpage, that reported the vast number of the "bad guys" who have been killed, compared to our losses.
"Arthur" IF you had bothered to read Flopping Aces you would have seen the excerpts from Bill Roggio, who was in Iraq, out in the field, not in some hotel like the "news" reporters upon whom you place so much faith:
AP, Reuters, etc. and all the other major news orgs use local reporters who work at grave peril. The bad news does not come from the few folks in the Green Zone. In fact that is where a lot of the propaganda comes from. The bad news is everywhere else in Iraq and your wishing it were other doesn't make it so.
Careful who you tag with the label of 'ignorant'.
If the shoe fits...
Mike wrote:
We tried diplomacy for HOW MANY YEARS?
Mike's America
There's no military solution Mike.
And that isn't my fault.
Save your umbrage for the C in C who got us into this mess.
And how about the Iraq Study Group Report?
Going to ignore that one?
Negotiate with Iran and Syria, both of whom are sworn to Israel's destruction?
No wonder Art likes them.
And how about the Iraq Study Group Report?
Going to ignore that one?
You mean the Iraq Surrender Group? *yawn* Nothing new under the sun in that one. Really, this is supposed to be revelatory? Basically, there's nothing new. Just ask Murtha. He certainly isn't happy with it.
"Arthur" You stagger me with disbelief.
How could you say:
"AP, Reuters, etc. and all the other major news orgs use local reporters who work at grave peril. The bad news does not come from the few folks in the Green Zone. In fact that is where a lot of the propaganda comes from. The bad news is everywhere else in Iraq and your wishing it were other doesn't make it so.
Careful who you tag with the label of 'ignorant'. "
Apparently you failed to read even the very post on which you are commenting, let alone the broad spectrum of associated material.
What can I conclude from that?
And you say "If the shoe fits..."
I've got an image of you with one of those well-fitted shoes in your mouth and another stuck in your....
You completely, and without ANY foundation in fact dismissed the observations of AMERICANS on the ground, at the scene and instead accepted the "propaganda" of "reporters" who have been shown to be not credible, and possibly agents for those pursuing America's defeat.
Are you even aware of the previous examples where the lamestream media has admitted it's "reporters" were acting on behalf of the enemy?
I wish I could help you "Arthur" to see the greater reality beyond the blue bubble in which you wrap yourself and the prejudices with which you comfort yourself.
But you insist on proving that any attempt to pierce that sphere is a waste of time.
I do feel sorry for you.
Mike wrote:
I do feel sorry for you.
No need Mike. But thanks.
Mike added:
You completely, and without ANY foundation in fact dismissed the observations of AMERICANS on the ground, at the scene and instead accepted the "propaganda" of "reporters" who have been shown to be not credible, and possibly agents for those pursuing America's defeat.
Mike wrote:
You completely, and without ANY foundation in fact dismissed the observations of AMERICANS on the ground, at the scene and instead accepted the "propaganda" of "reporters" who have been shown to be not credible, and possibly agents for those pursuing America's defeat.
I think I'll take Rummy's word for the success of the operation Mike:
'The situation in Iraq has been evolving, and U.S. forces have adjusted, over time, from major combat operations to counterterrorism, to counterinsurgency, to dealing with death squads and sectarian violence. In my view it is time for a major adjustment. Clearly, what U.S. forces are currently doing in Iraq is not working well enough or fast enough.'
Bear in mind this is three plus years after the 'cake walk', 'mission accomplished' days.
I like this part as well:
'Conduct an accelerated draw-down of U.S. bases. We have already reduced from 110 to 55 bases. Plan to get down to 10 to 15 bases by April 2007, and to 5 bases by July 2007.'
Can you say 'phased withdrawal'? Or in Republispeak 'cut & run'.?
Or This:
'Begin modest withdrawals of U.S. and Coalition forces (start “taking our hand off the bicycle seat”), so Iraqis know they have to pull up their socks, step up and take responsibility for their country.'
See above.
But here's my favorite:
'Announce that whatever new approach the U.S. decides on, the U.S. is doing so on a trial basis. This will give us the ability to readjust and move to another course, if necessary, and therefore not “lose.”'
There's the winning ticket Mike.
Bear in mind this is three plus years after the 'cake walk', 'mission accomplished' days.
You'd do well to go read the transcript of that speech. You obviously don't even know what the substance of it was.
And citing the Rumsfeld memo to back up your ignorance is lame. It reminds me of how for the past 3 years, and especially during the 2004 election, the Dems have been saying "we have a plan" , "we have a plan", "we have a plan"; and for the most part, yeah: it's the Bush plan. Everything that made sense that they were telling voters they'd instigate, was already in place, being carried out or looked into.
Wordsmith: I'm just sorry your efforts to provide "Arthur" with some balance were in vain. But it was a worthy effort.
And you'll notice of course that "Art" is back to his old trick of trying to shift the conversation onto other ground.
Sorry "Art" I have a low tolerance for that tactic, so you will understand if I don't indulge you further.
Wordsmith wrote:
You'd do well to go read the transcript of that speech. You obviously don't even know what the substance of it was.
I've read the speech Smith.
And we all saw the banner.
The banner was the message. The 'speech' was an excuse unfurl the banner. To be photographed and taped and transmitted over and over again.
'Mission Accomplished'.
Not hard to understand.
And Mike mentioned;
Sorry "Art" I have a low tolerance for that tactic, so you will understand if I don't indulge you further.
Shifting the topic? Ha. That's rich. Merely pointing out things aren't going as well as you would like and as well as you claim.
In Rummy's own words.
Not mine. Nor yours.
Have a great weekend.
Oh what a boob!
I've read the speech Smith.
And we all saw the banner.
The banner was the message. The 'speech' was an excuse unfurl the banner. To be photographed and taped and transmitted over and over again.
'Mission Accomplished'.
Not hard to understand.
That large banner was the Navy’s idea; and for the crew of the USS Lincoln, their mission was accomplished. Major combat operations had ended.
And as one commenter on my blog had written a while back:
I believe that a lot of people have misunderstood the message of “Mission Accomplished”. It was 3 years ago that the President landed on that fine ship and told me that my husband was coming home. And for him and everyone else on that very long, very stressful deployment their mission was accomplished. Publicity stunt or not it was a great day for many.
This from wikipedia, for what that’s worth:
Navy Commander and Pentagon spokesman Conrad Chun stated that the banner referred specifically to the aircraft carrier’s 10-month deployment (which was the longest deployment of a carrier since the Vietnam War) and not the war itself, saying “It truly did signify a mission accomplished for the crew.”
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