-15, Lows Keep Getting LOWER!
Just posted on the forum also and linked to you =) You are right in why Obama is avoiding debates like the plague b/c McCain was the very clear winner of last night's event.
Mike you might like this guy's conclusion afterwards.
'Frankly, the best we can hope from the debate match-ups is to get out alive. Everybody knows that our guy is not at his best in debates. And with that charm and wit, there's no way McCain won't win over the crowd. Expectations for him have to be sky-high.....'
http://
jamesfallows.theatlantic....rick_warren.php
Then there are my own views on Obama's fitness to lead, based on that same exchange.
http://annapuna.blogspot.com/200...s-
waterloo.html
With no script and no teleprompter, Obama is toast.
McCain shined during this and Obama failed. Especially the, "above my pay grade, " remark. In his effort to try and pander and be all things for all people, he may have sunk himself. He at the least provided a damaging sound bite that will haunt him until November.
I'll just repeat here what I said over at Anna's:
It was an illuminating moment. And that's exactly why we will not see Obama engage in the kinds of debates with McCain that he did during the primary process where such events were unavoidable.
Put aside for a moment the subject of the question and consider the broader implication of Obama's performance which showed a man unsure of how to express what he really believes and unsure of how to lead based on his beliefs.
That's not what we want in a Commander in Chief.
Nice ambush. But McSame was putting up a front. He will turn his back on you theocratic nut jobs worse than Bush did. Suckers...
Obama did poorly last night.
Now, I'm not a rabid fan of McCain's. But I have to say that he trounced BHO during the forum.
Elmo...and exactly which of the topics from last night is he putting up a front? Was it pro-life? Was it defeating evil? Was it his faith in Christ? Let's have specifics please...I know that is a lot to ask just like it is to ask of Obama so don't hurt yourself if you can't do it.
Sorry...accidently hit enter to soon...
I am very aware that we have to keep a close eye on McCain and hold him accountable to all the promises he is making. The difference is that at least he is making the promises I hope he keeps as opposed to the promises Obama is making that would be a disaster for our country if he keeps them.
Cajun: If you are expecting an intelligent reply from Elmo you are in for a disappointment.
Being President of the United States is also above Obama's paygrade.
Obama's abortion answer was pathetic, as was his answer about Clarence Thomas.
Mike...yeah I know...but it's fun sometimes to force them to try and think even though i know it is not possible.
Jennifer...I have no doubt that your line will definitely find its way into a McCain ad if they have any competence on the staff. As soon as it came out his mouth, I new that could be campaign ad material for months if used properly. Again why Obama will stay away from such forums as much as possible b/c he knows he can't match McCain when he has no script or telepromter.
When you say "value of human life" does that include sending a bunch of poor 20 year olds to the desert to die for the price of oil? If that's the case then yes, Obama is who I want as President.
That was a loaded question. He said baby, not fetus, Obama should have jumped on that. Sorry, but an embryo or a fertilized egg isn't a baby any more than my sperm is a baby. Otherwise, every time you jerk off you are killing babies and can no longer call yourself prolife.
What you should be talking about is where McCain said only people who earn over 5 million per year should be considered rich.
toadbat, your daddy would have done us all a favor if he had masturbated instead.
Toadbat: Do you know the difference between 20 year olds VOLUNTEERING for the military and a baby yanked from the womb and left to die on the operating table?
Obviously not. Your moral compass is broken.
yeah yeah yeah...oil oil oil...the old faithful liberal bogey man when they have no real facts to discuss.
I knew the libs would jump on the $5mil comment which was obviously a joke to show that it didn't matter how much someone makes b/c no matter how much you make he isn't going to raise your taxes.
Toad...do parents say once they are pregant...feel the fetus kick? no...they say baby b/c a baby's life begins at conception as McCain said...it was not an improperly worded question for anyone who has any ounce of morals or even scientific understanding. From the moment of conception every code of DNA the baby will ever have is there from the start so it is just as much human from zero hour as it is at 89 years old.
Cajun: It's actually the libs who have launched a war on oil. Otherwise, the peaceniks among them would be demanding we drill here, drill now to find U.S. oil so we don't need to get as involved overseas.
But of course they won't do that will they?
And you are right. No one says: When is your fetus due?
Jennifer, He did that, and I still see some evidence of that on your forehead, you should clean it off.
Mike:
Did you know Jewish law of the Bible has different punishments for murder than it does for someone who causes a pregnant woman to lose her child?? There is a punisment for it but its not the same as taking a life, message: a fetus isn't a human life...yet:
Exodus 21:14 But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.
21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
21:23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
So basically God is saying that an unborn child is something but it certainly isn't the same as a living, air breathing, human life.
So, if abortion isn't murder in God's eyes, and it isn't murder in the eyes of American law, what's your problem? It's not like you have to have an abortion. If you don't like abortion, don't have one and once you adobt every child in every orphanage in the United States, then you can talk about the "evils" of abortion you hypocrite.
once again toad has proved his moniker fits with that total classless comment.
I love when libs try and quote the Bible as if they know anything about it other than what some lib site gives as talking points.
Here is that verse in another version so you can understand it better:
18: If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take a life for life.
So what other life would God be talking about if it isn't the baby's b/c clearly the woman hasn't been killed? The only way the man gets away is if the premature birth doesn't kill the child, otherwise his punishment is the same as any other murder. So thanks for proving the exact opposite of what you thought you were trying to prove.
Yes, serious injury to the woman, not the child. You apprently don't read the bible much Cajun. Read the entire chapter, that theme keeps coming up with regards to the death of the woman.
Toadbat: If you knew the first thing about Cajun you would know better than to make the comment immediately above this one.
I'll wager Cajun's knowledge of the Bible exceeds your own by magnitude of 10.
And The same goes for all Cajun's other opionions, escpecially as it concerns the war in Iraq.
Mike...definitely a very safe wager.
Toad...I guess you also believe Obama's favorite verse, Matt 25:40, is a justification for welfare and social security and free health care and minimum wage and all the other socialist polices of the libs who think it is the government's responsibilithy to take care of the least of these. And that Matt 5:38-48 means we can't fight wars b/c we should turn the other cheek and love our enemies. Gotta love liberal theology...Rev. Wright would be proud.
So you are saying Jesus is wrong? And what does he say about abortion?
Mike: I have read and studied the Bible more than most Christians who post here including you and you know that. If Cajun happens to be a priest, great but I have seen many people who claim to be scholars of the Bible and still think Christians have to live according to the 10 commandments and one verse in Leviticus, but not the ones that tells them they have to grow their beards, not eat shellfish (Kosher), go to church on Saturday, send women out of town during their period, no they only read the one about homos.
Does Cajun have a better knowledge of the Bible? Perhaps, but its not the memorization of the verses it's how you interpret them and understanding their context that matters. Very few Christians or Muslims for that matter have a clue.
"Mike: I have read and studied the Bible more than most Christians who post here including you and you know that. "
Only a Christian hating idiot would make a statement like that for which he has absolutely no proof.
Ah, but then facts and reality never seem to impose themselves much on Toadbat's tortured reasoning.
Not that I have to defend Cajun, but one thing I know is that he not only knows the Bible, he lives it! Which is more than I can say for most people.
Your out of your league, Toad.
Correction: He's out of your league Toad.
Thanks for the very kind words Ron, only by God's grace!
Toad...see i knew that is what you believed and you say I don't know how to interpret the Bible.
You are absolutely right that context is king, so let's talk context. Those are not verses meant for governments. They are meant for individuals. If you slap me in the face, I turn the other cheek. I cannot take personal revenge on anyone who harms me. But if an enemy nation or terrorist group strikes the US or any other nation, it has the God-given power of the sword (Rom 13:1-4, 1 Pet 2:13-14, and 2 Tim 2:1-4). Also three times in the NT we read about soldiers who interacted with Jesus, John the Baptist, and Peter. Not one time did any of them tell them to get out of the military. Instead, all three were called righteous. One even asked what he must do and so if Christians are not supposed to fight in a military that would have been the perfect place to address that issue but it wasn't and instead talked about how he should conduct himself IN the military.
and here is another interesting verse for you Ps 51:5, David says he was sinful from the moment he was conceived. How can a clump of cells be sinful? How can a clump of cells respond like the John the Baptist did as related in Lk 1:41-44. If you think the Bible doesn't teach that abortions are murder then we definitely have nothing else to talk about b/c you are definitely not reading the Bible that I read.
Nope not finished yet, please read Rom 1:26-27...oops...you mean homosexuality is not just in the OT...man...that darn context bites every time doesn't it.
Also ready to discuss Islam anytime you are ready...as I'm sure you think it is a religion of peace as all you libs who think you have a clue do.
What kind of an uninformed question is this, that the Rev. Warren asked? In America we have a constitution*. All American babies have the same constitutional rights as you and I the day they are born.
The pastor's question is ridiculous and your final rhetorical question is unfounded.
Best regards...
*(or at least we once had a constitution, before Bush/Cheney began to systematically dismantle our rights.)
Anon...none of your comments deserve comment b/c they are so dumb...if your idol Obama gets his way, birth won't automatically afford constitutional rights.
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