Glad you're weighing in on this. As you my know, I've started posting on other aspects of hilchot Harry Potter (quidditch, spells). Just linked to this post, too. thanks
kaspit | Homepage | 07.25.05 - 7:52 pm | #

Gil - You should start a contest. How many different ways can you find to derive yiras shamayim from the Harry Potter books?
DarkBlueHat | Homepage | 07.25.05 - 10:24 pm | #

Sounds like something an elementary school rebbe should do.
Gil | Homepage | 07.25.05 - 11:24 pm | #

An elementary school rebbe and a blogger - how different are they?

Back to my original point though, I suspect that any child perceptive enough to derive yiras shamayim from Harry Potter books would discover it just about any other place she choose to look as well. There may very well be some particular aspects of yiras shamayim which are found in greater quantities in the Harry Potter books than elsewhere. I just can't think of any offhand. Hence I proposed a contest to see if anyone else could come up with anything, even though I expect most of the answers to be Purim Torah.

It actually could be a good idea for an elementary school rebbe, but it would probably be better to focus on the Bein Adam LiChavero aspects.
DarkBlueHat | Homepage | 07.25.05 - 11:43 pm | #

The article by Rabbi Jack Abramowitz, which I linked to, fits the bill. Maybe not pure elementary school, but it is written for NCSY.

btw, as a model of life in school, HP may require a fair amount of editorializing to bring out the bein adam lichavero aspects for a young reader.
kaspit | Homepage | 07.26.05 - 12:26 am | #

From an Orthodox POV--
Check out the letter by Rav Moshe Rosenberg, a 6th and 7th grade rebbe, on pages 5-6 of:
http://www.ou.org/publications/j...mer/ LETTERS.PDF

From a general moral POV--
There's an interesting book I read on the subject, called The Wisdom of Harry Potter: What Our Favorite Hero Teaches Us About Moral Choices. It's by Professor Edmund M. Kern, and it's available at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obido...235858? v=glance
Uri Cohen | 07.26.05 - 2:30 am | #

I once delivered a Kollel Elyon lecture on whether it is muttar to read Harry Potter- the most substantive concern mentioned in the Jewish Action and the parrallel article in Jewish Observer was that if young people read Harry Potter only to discover that the fanciful tales are not true they may begin to doubt divrei Chazal and Aggada- I can not take this argument seriously since I believe almost all Rishonim understand that Aggada is not supposed to be taken as literal truth.
ezra | 07.26.05 - 1:51 pm | #

And that you should be telling kids from when they begin reading that the story is not true.
Gil | Homepage | 07.26.05 - 2:07 pm | #

Rabbi Gil -- most (98%?) children who can read HP know that it is (another) fiction book. It's far more complicated figuring out what to say to youngsters about our own diverse texts.
kaspit | Homepage | 07.26.05 - 2:33 pm | #

What's the most solid basis out there that is Mattir this, getting around Moshav Leitzim? Is it just a question of how broadly you define doing something productive? I mean, there's alot to learn about the amazing talents Hashem has bestowed on people from the theater too.
D.B. | 07.26.05 - 3:05 pm | #

Having read the latest installment of HP, a further question comes to mind: what of the excessive "snogging"? Generally, I must admit to feeling a little uncomfortable about the "relationship" portions of the book. While its (probably) harmless for adults, I'm really not sure that I would want my daughters reading such stuff when their older.
Yitzhak | 07.26.05 - 5:57 pm | #

Does Gil have any idea how creepy it looks to people outside the cult to watch him torturously discuss permission to read a book?! My non-Jewish friends goggle at his lack of self-consciousness while strutting his mind-control. They laugh at Heshy, but shudder at Gil.
Mis-nagid | 07.26.05 - 7:58 pm | #

And I am sure they react the same way to discussion about permission to turn on a light switch. All concepts foreign to one's culture are difficult to understand without proper explanations.
Gil | Homepage | 07.26.05 - 8:04 pm | #

What's the most solid basis out there that is Mattir this, getting around Moshav Leitzim?

What basis, other than moshav leitzim, is there to asser it? Bittul Torah is all I can come up with (which is no small matter).

Having read the latest installment of HP, a further question comes to mind: what of the excessive "snogging"?

It is actually done quite innocuously.
Gil | Homepage | 07.26.05 - 8:08 pm | #

I'm in agreement with Gil on the "snogging" issue. Unless you're well informed, meaning that you don't need HP to tell you whats going on, you would read right past it.

Though Bitul Torah is an issue, so maybe we should all reserve time to read it on Tisha B'Av? (Assuming we've done Chazara on everything we've ever learned...)
Abdullah | 07.27.05 - 7:17 am | #

Or in your "down time."
Gil | Homepage | 07.27.05 - 8:59 am | #

I meant what's the most solid basis that it's OK in light of Moshav Leitzim.
D.B. | 07.27.05 - 8:34 pm | #

"I mean, there's alot to learn about the amazing talents Hashem has bestowed on people from the theater too."

and good reason to think the theatre of today is not the theatre of the gemara or moshav leytzim.
Anonymous | 07.29.05 - 1:42 pm | #

Anonymous:
How do you define Moshav Leitzim, and how do you think the theatre of today difers from that of the times of the Magen Avraham?
D.B. | 07.31.05 - 12:57 am | #

If we follow Rambam (in his Mishna) that Sanhedrin (10?)'s outside/non-canonical/heretical books are any book that has no practical purpose (he brings science as an example of practical purpose, and histories of Arab kingdoms as no practical purpose), then what's the psak on Harry Potter? :)

As for yirat shamayim in HP, I'm sure someone could do it. An article (in Time? Newsweek?) showed how Superman (the movie) showed parallels to Judaism. However another article showed parallels to Christianity. And regarding those Bible Codes, someone showed that by the same method, Moby Dick prophesies Indira Ghandi. Actually, I do recall an article somewhere (Moment?) showing parallels to Judaism in HP...

And regarding today's theaters, I don't know about Magen Avraham's theaters, but I definitely know that unlike Roman theaters, today's aren't filled with murder and bloodshed and other such vices. Did you know they sprayed perfume to cover up the smell of all the dead gladiators? Cultured people they were, after all.
Michael Makovi | 04.13.07 - 6:32 am | #

"And regarding today's theaters, I don't know about Magen Avraham's theaters, but I definitely know that unlike Roman theaters, today's aren't filled with murder and bloodshed and other such vices."


were you being sarcastic?
ami | 07.18.07 - 11:54 pm | #

"And regarding today's theaters, I don't know about Magen Avraham's theaters, but I definitely know that unlike Roman theaters, today's aren't filled with murder and bloodshed and other such vices."


Nowadays, you have to go to the movies for that.
BY | 07.20.07 - 3:43 am | #

Somehow, there must be a difference between watching a fictional movie with death and watching real live humans getting really killed, in front of your eyes.
Mikha'el Makovi | 11.07.07 - 5:00 pm | #